QIZCHA, QIZ, KELINCHAK, ONA... - AYOL

[[Female] Guest]

jamiyatimizda har qanday illatlar ko'p. bu illat hali ancha davom etishini bilsamda, umid uchqunlarimni aslo so'ndrimayman.... shulardan biri, ayollarni "daraja"larga bo'lib hurmat qilishdir. masalan, turmushga chiqmagan qizga boshqacha qaraladi - go'yo u bir buyum. turmushga chiqqandan keyin, ona bo'lgandan keyin hurmati ortadi (ayniqsa, o'gil tug'sa).
turmushga chiqmay "o'tirib qolgan" ayollarga, ajrashgan bevalarga esa ko'p hollarda odam o'rnida qaralmaydi. "bir bechora ekan" yoki "manjalaqi bo'lsa kerak" deb qaraladi.
yoki ayol xunukkina bo'lsa, albatta, uning hurmati chiroyliroq ayolnikidan biroz past bo'ladi...

axir bularning barisi bir - AYOLku! nega endi ayollarga birday - ayolday hurmat ko'rsatilmaydi? bunday holatlar erkaklar orasida ham uchraydi, lekin, albatta, ayollar vaziyati bilan solishtirsa bo'ladigan darajada emas.


ayting-chi siz nima deysiz?

[Vishnya]

Manimcha, kop holatlarda ayni ayollar ozlari g'iybat qiladilar va 1 chi orinda shunday "omadi chopmagan" ayollar togrisida ozlari gap tarqatadilar. Masalan, men hech qachon erkaklarni hunukroq ayol togrisida gaplashganini va ustidan kulib gapirganini eshitmaganman, lekin, qizlar orasida bu narsa bor. Birovning omadi chopmaganligini "mavzu" qilib oladilar, chunki boshqa mavzu togrisida fahm-farosat kamligidan gaplasha olmaydilar.

bularni hammasga ayollar aybdor

[_Charosoy_]

Ayol kishi ilk avval o'z qadrini bilmog'i darkor. O'z qadr-qiymatini va g'ururini bilmagan ayol boshqalardan hurmat kutishi kulgili holdir.

BUYUKLIGING UNUTMA, AYOL!!!

[Kolobok]

Аёл Мо'табар :)
Женщина - это приглашение к счастью. ;)

[ERKAK]

bilaslami, qiz bolaga, umuman ayollaga eng zarur xislat qaysi? farosat!!! a bu yerda bo'sa, farosati yo' qizla keragidan ortiq :D Kalabo'qam shu qizlani ichida :)

[[Female] Guest]

Kolobok:
cheesy words, i want the thruth

[[Female] Guest]

(ahh I love this :))

ERKAKKA:
aqqli odam aqlli gaplarni gapirib ketibdiku!

:idea:

[Delta]

agar erkelani yomonlagani yeg'ilgan bosela...torisini sharta etib qoyila
"erkela hammasi bitta hamirdan qorilgan" (asalikni sozlari) deb.. :)

uzi tinchgina jim yuramiz... tori ishga borib ishdan kelib, yana gap eshitamizam :oops:

bilmadim uylansam nima buladi hali...
qorqitmela unaqa ayola ;)

hehe hazil :P

[Kolobok]

Guest"]Kolobok:
cheesy words, i want the thruth
That's how it works.

[anty]

assalamu alaikum
nu i temka :) chto poseesh,to i pojmesh. Ayolla hurmat qozonish uchun ozi harakat qilish keri, guest gapi tori sami vinovati
a naschet ne zamujnih,v nekotorom smisle vi pravi, lekin hozir vse izmeryayut dengami :) huni bolsa ham ota onasi sostoyatelni bolsa obogotvoryat aj
'e same thing applies to men :)

[Delta]

anty vnuchka me agrees with you :)
If You Got The Power, there is no Problem Changhing Things :)

[anty]

ispasiba :)
nu power to odno,a vzaimno uvajat drugoe :)

[R:K.K.]

Sen mening kimligimni yani gozalligimni kurmoqchi bulsang sen mening yuzimga emas qalbimga boq :!:


Uzoqdan qarasang oyda ham kurinadi dog,
YAqindan qarasang tiniqdir balki,
Odamning yuziga baho berma hech chog,
Hunuk deganlarni tozadir qalbi!

Tushungan tushunib oladi: inson zotini podaga ohshatish kerak emas.

[[Female] Guest]

Kolobokka: what are you talking about?

:cow:

[[Female] Guest]

anty: can you be more specific, in terms blaming only women for their being "slave"s or being treated as secondary human beings?
give me stronger arguments. :crazyeyes:

[[Female] Guest]

delta: since our society is male-dominated why then men don't try to change it? yoki ula chetta turib kuzatib turuvchilami? hmm, juda g'alati... yoki umuman holamas uzgartilishini?.... :war:

[[Female] Guest]

rkk: my point is our society's mentality and its attitude towards women. i am not talking about each individual, e.g., how each person's personality is. :kitty:

[[Female] Guest]

guest: juda ma'noli so'zlar...
:cow: :cow: :cow:

[Delta]

Guest"]delta: since our society is male-dominated why then men don't try to change it? yoki ula chetta turib kuzatib turuvchilami? hmm, juda g'alati... yoki umuman holamas uzgartilishini?.... :war:

i did not build that society, and I have no intentions to waste my life trying to clean up somebodies mess.
Therefore, uz-male-dominated crap can be showeled up into those people's a77.

Do you really think people care about those male/female social status thing right now, while many people struggling to find some food, to feed their family in all cost.

All in All, I personally don't like American Culture either...there is no respect to anyone...if there is something happening...woman will always deep inside has a back up plan to use their dumbs*itly written rights.
I'm not saying, there should not be any law to protect women, but it's gotta be carefully written and adjusted to countrie's culture and beliefs.
Otherwise, 6 years old boys will start to sue...their Dads/Moms, as soon as they learn how to speak correctly, which happens a lot in US.

Therefore, there must be LAW, but very carefully done, and it should be enforced, however do you really think you can enforce that law NOW?:)
think about it a bit deeper.
Oldin birinchli darajali masalani hal etish, keyin 2 chi darajaliga utish lozim, aks holda krillovni basnyaside..tortvuradi unisi buyoqa.. bunisi y yoqa.

everything i said above came up from a bit of curiosity only.

sorry, if i sounded rough. :sprint:

[anty]

assalamu alaikum
stronger arguement,hmm nevejestvo...probably u won't agree with me,but it is so
mi ne znaem svoi prava i obyazannosti, a bolshinstvo gryat "nu chto podelaesh,prihoditsya...sudba " i ne zadumivaems iz za chego tak
a vot slovo "slave" ne podhodit, shya vrode bolshinstvo jenshin v S.A. kak glava sem'i ili ya ne prava?
a to chto vi govorite bilo neskolko let tomu nazad, da i shya mojet bit toko shahardan chet joylarda
odnim slovom vasha tema "diskriminatsiya" :)

Elmu vi mne davali statyu "gender equity in islam" ne mojete copy/paste dlya female(guest), ya che t ne mogu nayti

a shya izvenite menya deti jdut

Guest"]delta: since our society is male-dominated why then men don't try to change it? yoki ula chetta turib kuzatib turuvchilami? hmm, juda g'alati... yoki umuman holamas uzgartilishini?.... :war:

i did not build that society, and I have no intentions to waste my life trying to clean up somebodies mess.
Therefore, uz-male-dominated crap can be showeled up into those people's a77.

Do you really think people care about those male/female social status thing right now, while many people struggling to find some food, to feed their family in all cost.

All in All, I personally don't like American Culture either...there is no respect to anyone...if there is something happening...woman will always deep inside has a back up plan to use their dumbs*itly written rights.
I'm not saying, there should not be any law to protect women, but it's gotta be carefully written and adjusted to countrie's culture and beliefs.
Otherwise, 6 years old boys will start to sue...their Dads/Moms, as soon as they learn how to speak correctly, which happens a lot in US.

Therefore, there must be LAW, but very carefully done, and it should be enforced, however do you really think you can enforce that law NOW?:)
think about it a bit deeper.
Oldin birinchli darajali masalani hal etish, keyin 2 chi darajaliga utish lozim, aks holda krillovni basnyaside..tortvuradi unisi buyoqa.. bunisi y yoqa.

everything i said above came up from a bit of curiosity only.

sorry, if i sounded rough. :sprint:


....can you tell me the time when i have to ask my questions? maybe after hundreds of uzbek women beaten up or after they are man-made incubators with five children as trigger says, and cannot do anything because they are half-educated and don't know a thing about outsider world, because they are stuck at home and economically depend on their HUSBANDS who at present really cannot do anything? and some people wonder why we are not developed.

if you don't care, that's just fine. be it. but you cannot stop me writing my topics. and i am not trying to enforce the LAW (i dont' know what kind of a law that is) NOW. it is not possible. and i know it better than you probably, because i am dealing with it.

(it is kind of irrelevant, but still let me mention it here, actually, the present economic situation of uzbekistan has let women be more active in the informal sector of the economy, which increased women's status at least little bit. now those women are able to feed their husbands and their children. but they are not many.)

man uchun buni hech qachon kechi bumidi. :gorgeous:

assalamu alaikum
stronger arguement,hmm nevejestvo...probably u won't agree with me,but it is so
mi ne znaem svoi prava i obyazannosti, a bolshinstvo gryat "nu chto podelaesh,prihoditsya...sudba " i ne zadumivaems iz za chego tak
a vot slovo "slave" ne podhodit, shya vrode bolshinstvo jenshin v S.A. kak glava sem'i ili ya ne prava?
a to chto vi govorite bilo neskolko let tomu nazad, da i shya mojet bit toko shahardan chet joylarda
odnim slovom vasha tema "diskriminatsiya" :)

Elmu vi mne davali statyu "gender equity in islam" ne mojete copy/paste dlya female(guest), ya che t ne mogu nayti

a shya izvenite menya deti jdut

va alaykum assalom

vi menya absolutno ne pravil'no ponili anty. you are right when you say that we -women do not know our rights. the majority of uzbek women do not know what their in the Qur'on neither in the Constitution. and if they would have known them it be very very hard to imply them in our society.
so women try to ignore their problems worsening their own situation.
you are also right when you say that women in Central Asia becoming more and more independent. but it is [almost] only in Kirgizstan and Kazakhstan, not really in Uzbekistan. and i guess therefore, you had to generalize your statement saying S.A.

you read the following articles if you are interested:

http://women.freenet.uz/proj.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1125985.stm

http://depts.washington.edu/reecas/newsletter/spring97/pearce.htm

http://www.feminist.org/other/ncwp.asp



i will write soon again

assalomu aleykum

[trigger-happy]

women do not know our rights. the majority of uzbek women do not know what their in the Qur'on neither in the Constitution. and if they would have known them it be very very hard to imply them in our society.
so women try to ignore their problems worsening their own situation.

Finally! You saw the light!
Yes! the reason for some women's unsatisfying lives is their own ignorance. Whose fault is that? I say those very women who don't care enough to read that very same Quran or Constitution. For God's sake, we are a secular country, unlike Iran or Saudi Arabia, our women can work, study, drive, marry, divorce, pretty much do anything that men do (except for the Army). It's just for that type of a woman that you've described, it's more convenient to transfer the burden of making important decisions in her life on parents or husband. To you, it's being a slave, to her, it's being taken care of. Don't insult those women and call them slaves just because they made a different choice than you would have. Woemn should stick together, not go at each others' throats.

P.S. Now, domestic violence is a different issue entirely (which you chose to put in the same pile) - women who are abused need immediate help, which I admit is often inadequate.

P.P.S. Are you going to "ban" me from this thread too? You are not trigger-happy-allergic by any chance, are you? :D

[[Female] Guest]

hmm...wow...actually i knew that, and the issue of abuse is also relevant if not directly then indirectly. think about it. i have been observing that you have been "feeling" like i was banning you :) very weird. but i was not and you know that. quote any of my words that make you feel like that. :) and fortenatelly i have no allergies for anybody and anything :) so feel free posting here, you are more than welcome hon.

[trigger-happy]

Female,
Thank you for that. About time for a peace pipe, eh? ;)
As to the issue, I am sure all who have posted want to see Uzbek women happy and in charge of their lives. However, we shouldn't go into a different extreme. When women become emancipated, they should be careful not to overdo it: yes, our society needs strong women - political activists, doctors, teachers, economists, lawyers, but we also need kind and soft mothers, wives, sisters. When a woman becomes the main breadwinner in the family, it puts a lot of pressure on her and strains her ability to be a mother, wife, and a Woman. Not every woman can manage such a task. I'd love to hear your thoughts on which areas of women's rights need to change.
P.S. Congratulations to all the lovely ladies on the International Women's Day!

assalamu alaikum

a to chto vi govorite bilo neskolko let tomu nazad, da i shya mojet bit toko shahardan chet joylarda odnim slovom vasha tema "diskriminatsiya" :)

Elmu vi mne davali statyu "gender equity in islam" ne mojete copy/paste dlya female(guest), ya che t ne mogu nayti

a shya izvenite menya deti jdut

(davomi)
shahardan chet joylar? hmmm.... ya'ni shahardan chet joylar e'tibordan biroz chetroqda. shundaymi? endi ayting-chi, meniki ajratishmi sizniki. :) undan keyin, (men oz'im ham shaxsan toshkentdanman) asl toshkentliklar, ayniqsa, ba'zibir qaynonalar kelinlarini "qul" deb ataganlariga ko'p marotaba guvoh bo'lganman. ishoning, tuppa-tuzuk o'zbek ayollari edi bular. albatta, o'rislashgan oilalar (ayollar) bu guruhga kirmaydi. va shu o'rislashgan ayollar esa butun o'zbek ayollariga solishtirib qaralganda qo'l bilan sanoqli darajada chiqadi. mazkur ayollar bilan siz aytgan chet joylardagi ayollar sonini bosib yubora olmaysiz.

Komilahon, aytgan maqolangizni qidirib ovora bo'lmang, siz aytib o'tgan narsalarni ozmi-ko'pmi o'rganib qo'yganman. Washington Universitetida undergraduate bo'lganimda ancha-muncha Islom dini haqida darslar o'qiganman. msln: intro. to islam; intro to quran; quranic prophets; women & gender in islam, va har xil mavzularda esselar ham yozganman va bu yerda nima yozayotganimni ham yaxshi bilaman...

[[Female] Guest]

oops :)

assalamu alaikum

a to chto vi govorite bilo neskolko let tomu nazad, da i shya mojet bit toko shahardan chet joylarda odnim slovom vasha tema "diskriminatsiya" :)

Elmu vi mne davali statyu "gender equity in islam" ne mojete copy/paste dlya female(guest), ya che t ne mogu nayti

a shya izvenite menya deti jdut

(davomi)
shahardan chet joylar? hmmm.... ya'ni shahardan chet joylar e'tibordan biroz chetroqda. shundaymi? endi ayting-chi, meniki ajratishmi sizniki. :) undan keyin, (men oz'im ham shaxsan toshkentdanman) asl toshkentliklar, ayniqsa, ba'zibir qaynonalar kelinlarini "qul" deb ataganlariga ko'p marotaba guvoh bo'lganman. ishoning, tuppa-tuzuk o'zbek ayollari edi bular. albatta, o'rislashgan oilalar (ayollar) bu guruhga kirmaydi. va shu o'rislashgan ayollar esa butun o'zbek ayollariga solishtirib qaralganda qo'l bilan sanoqli darajada chiqadi. mazkur ayollar bilan siz aytgan chet joylardagi ayollar sonini bosib yubora olmaysiz.

Komilahon, aytgan maqolangizni qidirib ovora bo'lmang, siz aytib o'tgan narsalarni ozmi-ko'pmi o'rganib qo'yganman. Washington Universitetida undergraduate bo'lganimda ancha-muncha Islom dini haqida darslar o'qiganman. msln: intro. to islam; intro to quran; quranic prophets; women & gender in islam, va har xil mavzularda esselar ham yozganman va bu yerda nima yozayotganimni ham yaxshi bilaman...

Female,
Thank you for that. About time for a peace pipe, eh? ;)
As to the issue, I am sure all who have posted want to see Uzbek women happy and in charge of their lives. However, we shouldn't go into a different extreme. When women become emancipated, they should be careful not to overdo it: yes, our society needs strong women - political activists, doctors, teachers, economists, lawyers, but we also need kind and soft mothers, wives, sisters. When a woman becomes the main breadwinner in the family, it puts a lot of pressure on her and strains her ability to be a mother, wife, and a Woman. Not every woman can manage such a task. I'd love to hear your thoughts on which areas of women's rights need to change.
P.S. Congratulations to all the lovely ladies on the International Women's Day!

no problem. yeah, war is ugly :war:
yes, you are right, but you are talking about when she gets married... but i am asking why do we treat women accordingly...ya'ni, qizcha, qiz, kelinchak, ona, qaynona...

i will write more tomorrow

:rose:

[Delta]

Woman Wrote:
"if you don't care, that's just fine. be it. but you cannot stop me writing my topics. and i am not trying to enforce the LAW (i dont' know what kind of a law that is) NOW. it is not possible. and i know it better than you probably, because i am dealing with it. "

i have no intentions or rights to stop you writting any topic or posts.
i did not say you are trying to enforce the LAW. I meant there has to be a LAW (carefully made one) and has to be enforced, which is almost impossible..since even simple laws are not correctly enforced nowadays.

if you know something better then me...good for you, and you can deal with it as long as you want..since this is your life.

i believe if everyone was taking care of themselves well, world would be beautifull, and the system has to lead people to do so. If it's not done, dealing with it may take a bit longer then you think... lets say another 100 years.
:kissie:
with all respect,
me

Gapingizga aralashmoqchi emasmanku, lekin Deltaboyni gapiga 100% qoshilaman. Bu masalani ildizida kotta uzgartirishlar kiritilmasa, quruq sapsata bilan ish bitmaydi.

[Mahluq]

http://www.forum.uz/viewtopic.php?t=11749
stop whining and read the reality girls.
mamboo jamboo

[trigger-happy]

http://www.forum.uz/viewtopic.php?t=11749
stop whining and read the reality girls.
mamboo jamboo
And this is relevant how??? I am confused. :?

[[Female] Guest]

http://www.forum.uz/viewtopic.php?t=11749
stop whining and read the reality girls.
mamboo jamboo

Janob Mahluq, javobingiz bilan o'zingizning qanday ekanligingizni ko'rsatib qo'ydingiz, rahmat. Haqiqiy mahluqlardan ekansiz.

[prchay]

hoy odamlar nuqul ozbek hotinlarini erkaklar qul qiladi deysizlar aslida esa ayollar ozozlarini qul qiladilar maslan yengi tushgan kelinchakga qaynonasi shunagangi boshliq blgisi keladiki asta qaoyaverasiz.Shu kiyovbola qaynotalar boldi qoy desaham qaynona qoymaydi
hafa bolmanglarku lekin hotinlarni bazan bu qiliglarigi tovuq miyya degim keladi.
haqiqatdan kop ayollar shu tovuq miyyalarga ohshab harakat qilishadi hech farosat degan narsa yoq.Masalan meni bir tanishimning onasi valdirrayverib oglini 3 martda uylanishga majbur qildi.yana bittasi qochip ketgadan keyin boshqasiga uylanishga majbur boldi.ohir uchunchisi ham qochip ketdi.
Osha tovoq miya narigi dunyoga tezroq ravona bolsa ogli qutilarmidi tagin bilmadim.

[[Female] Guest]

boy: postingda FAQAT erkaklar shunday qiladilar deb aytilmagan. butun o'zbek jamiyati - ayolu erkak nazarda tutilmoqda. u jamiyatnig yarmi erkaklar, demak erkaklarga ham bog'liqligi bor.

ps. boshqaga o'lim tilaguncha, o'zingga umr tila...

[noodles]

ps. boshqaga o'lim tilaguncha, o'zingga umr tila...
eeey, yashang:)

Woman Wrote:
"if you don't care, that's just fine. be it. but you cannot stop me writing my topics. and i am not trying to enforce the LAW (i dont' know what kind of a law that is) NOW. it is not possible. and i know it better than you probably, because i am dealing with it. "

i have no intentions or rights to stop you writting any topic or posts.
i did not say you are trying to enforce the LAW. I meant there has to be a LAW (carefully made one) and has to be enforced, which is almost impossible..since even simple laws are not correctly enforced nowadays.

if you know something better then me...good for you, and you can deal with it as long as you want..since this is your life.

i believe if everyone was taking care of themselves well, world would be beautifull, and the system has to lead people to do so. If it's not done, dealing with it may take a bit longer then you think... lets say another 100 years.
:kissie:
with all respect,
me

as i said at the beginning i know that this issue seems almost unsolvable. but i never stop believing in my 'dream's as you know. i still hope for something, eventhough i know that i might not see it myself. be it. but let it change at least. about the law. i remember how our yurtboshi wanted to imply the law or rules for weddings, but no one followed that, on the contrary the wedding ceremonies became worse. therefore, i also think it depends on the family, on the society. as b.o.y mentioned the mother treats her son like 'slave', the son treats his wive(s) as slave(s).
i am talking about the mentality and in my topic i mentioned only about how women are 'respected accordingly', also very briefly about men.

i was little surprised when you wrote: Oldin birinchli darajali masalani hal etish, keyin 2 chi darajaliga utish lozim, aks holda krillovni basnyaside..tortvuradi unisi buyoqa.. bunisi y yoqa. did you mean women's issue second thing...? well, then keep solving the first things and i will try to find a solution for secondary things ;)

qornim ochib ketdi :eat:

[Delta]

Woman, remember one thing - people who you care...people whome society you want to be prosperoous and fair...DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR WILL DO, JUST A LITTLE EXAMPLE: TRY TO ASK A SHELTER IN SOMBODIES HOUSE OR A PIECE OF BREAD, LETS SEE IF SOMEONE WILL HELP YOU. May be someone will ..for once, but not for some time indeed. It's a proven fact by history. :icecream:
Millions People Devoted their miserable lives, to change the world....how did it end up? if you don't count things written on the paper, which of course will disapear from time to time... what they did was worth nothing, for their own benefit and for their society.
Yes, indeed this is a selfish thinking...but my belief stays none changed for me - "if everyone could take care of themselves, world would be happier then ever", which partially works that way..in US and in some other civilized countries, who understood it some time ago.

Look around where you live, if you don't take care of yourself..noone will, or even members of the country(U.S citizens) may sturve from hunger if they don't move their big a77es. As a result, people's survival instincts arise and does a good job, and country is the richest.
However, I do respect your believes and opinions, since, Noone ever can assure he/she is absolutely correct.

-----
I feel no hunger or pain, but take a glance my dear mom
things will get bright, since you deserve it most of all.

( Delta, march 08, 5:10 a.m. )

[R.K.K]

Masalan meni bir tanishimning onasi valdirrayverib oglini 3 martda uylanishga majbur qildi.yana bittasi qochip ketgadan keyin boshqasiga uylanishga majbur boldi.ohir uchunchisi ham qochip ketdi.
Osha tovoq miya narigi dunyoga tezroq ravona bolsa ogli qutilarmidi tagin bilmadim.

B.O.Y. ush urtogingiz ham lattadan farqi yuq ekan uz hotini uzi himoya qila olmasa nimga uylanadi? Afsuski ushanday qaynonalar bor hayotda ularga duch kelishdan hudoning uzi asrasin! Yigit uz onasini harakterini yahshi bilsa hotinini himoya qilishni urganishi kerak ha deb onamning degani tugri demay bir yastiqdoshiga ham quloq solishi kerak menimcha?!

[[Female] Guest]

people read writer Xurshid Do'stmuhammad's novel "Bozor" you will [hopefully]
get what i am trying to tell here.

ps. if it is not a big issue, then why writers write about it?? think about it.

[CoolAir]

ispasiba :)
nu power to odno,a vzaimno uvajat drugoe :)

da lana tebe , puli bo'sayam o'zi jinniro bo'sa xech kimga keremas, kakaya doljnost' u otca vora ne bilab razveli tut boltavnyu, pokurorlani bollari asosan miyyasi yo' narkoshala