No To Pan-Turkism, Yes To Islam!!!

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Hey What's up people (Assalam alaikum to who it concerns),

Yesterday, in Choyhona, I got discussion with couple guys from Turkey. They were calling Turkic nations to unite and gain their strength and glory that they had in the past centuries. I let people know that Pan-Turkism (or Turkish Nationalism) is an evil movement and rooted in nationalism (so was Nazi movement of Germany). If people of Turkistan unite as one nation, what about the persians of Central Asia (Tajiks, Iranians and etc)? Are they supposed to be segregated?? What about the Russian speaking minority of Cental Asia (may be they are not even minority in certain parts of the aforementioned region)?? Usually, Pan-Turkism is disguised under the flag of Islam. Guys, Let me tell you something: Pan-Turkism, Pan-Arabism and even Pan-Islamism (Pro-Khilafa Movement) are foreign ideas to Islam. All of them have their origin in the Liberation Movement of Muslim Lands that started in the early and mid -19th-20th Century, whose leaders are known with names like Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, Mustafa Kemal, Hasan Al-Banna, Abul A'la Mawdudi, Sayyid Qutb, 'Abd al-Salam Faraj, Fathi Yakan and etc. Some of these leaders even called for bloodshed and the destruction of innocent lives in order to achieve their political goals.

I just would like to post here couple articles regarding the evils of Nationalism, Tribalism, Racism, and Revoltism for the sake of Pan-Islamism.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

The Evils Of Nationalism

By the Noble Scholar, Shaykh ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn Baaz



Indeed Islaam has forbidden the calls of jaahiliyyah (the pre-Islaamic days of ignorance) and there are many textual evidences which forbid all of the characteristics and manners of jaahiliyyah and their actions, except those (good and decent) practices which Islaam agreed to. And there is no doubt that the call to nationalism is from these calls of jaahiliyyah, since nationalism is a call to other than Islaam and an aiding of other than the truth. And how many ills, evils and serious wars has such calls of jaahiliyyah caused to their people, causing great harm to their souls, their wealth and their possessions. The consequences of such calls (for the Muslims) was a splitting up of their unity and a planting of enmity and hatred of each other in their hearts and a fragmentation and splitting between tribes and nations.

Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H) – rahimahullaah – said: [2] “Everything which is outside the call of Islaam and the Qur‘aan, with regards to lineage, land, nationality, schools of thoughts and ways, then it is from the calls of jaahiliyyah. Indeed, even when the Muhaajirs (those Companions who migrated from Makkah to al-Madeenah) and the Ansaars (those Companions who aided and supported those who migrated) argued, such that one of the Muhaajirs said: “O Muhaajirs! (implying; rally to my aid).” And then one of the Ansaar said: “O Ansaar!” Upon hearing this, the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “Is it with the calls of jaahiliyyah that you call, and I am still amongst you!” And he became very angry at that.” [3]

And from the textual evidences pertaining to this issue is Allaah the Most High’s saying:

“And stay in your homes and do not display yourselves, like the display of the times of jaahiliyyah (pre-Islaamic ignorance). But establish the Prayer, give the Zakaat and obey Allaah and His Messenger.” [Sooratul-Ahzaab 33:33]

“When those who disbelieved placed in their hearts pride and arrogance the pride and arrogance of jaahiliyyah then Allaah sent down His tranquility upon His Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam and upon the Believers...” [Sooratul-Fath 48:26].

The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa’ah (united body) and dies, then he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for ’asabiyyah (partisanship and party spirit), or calling to ’asabiyyah, or assisting ’asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah.” [4] Also in Saheeh Muslim (8/120), the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “Indeed Allaah has revealed to me that you should have humility, and that no one should act proudly and oppressively over anyone else, nor should anyone boast over anyone else.”
And there is no doubt that the call to nationalism is a call to ’asabiyyah (partisanship and party spirit) and it is a call to becoming angry for the sake of ’asabiyyah and fighting for ’asabiyyah. And there is no doubt also, that the call to nationalism is a call to transgression, pride and arrogance, since nationalism is not a divinely revealed way of life which prevents its people from oppression and proud boasting. Rather it is an ideology from the time of jaahiliyyah which leads its people to boasting about it and having ’asabiyyah for it even if they are the oppressors and the others are the oppressed! So – O noble reader – consider this and the truth will be clear to you.

And from the textual evidences connected with this is what at-Tirmidhee relates from Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) that he said: “Let people stop boasting about their forefathers who have died, who are merely fuel for the Hellfire; or they will certainly be more insignificant with Allaah than the beetle which roles dung with its nose. Allaah has removed from you the party spirit of the days of jaahiliyyah and the boasting about one’s forefathers. Indeed a person is either a pious Believer or a wretched sinner. All of mankind are the children of Aadam, and Aadam was created from clay.” [5]

The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) also said: “Indeed there is no excellence for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab over an Arab, nor a white person over a black one, nor a black person over a white one, except through taqwaa (piety and obedience to Allaah).” [6]

And this accords with Allaah the Most High's saying:

“O mankind! We have created you from male and female and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most noblest of you with Allaah is the one who has the most taqwaa.” [Sooratul-Hujuraat 49:13].

So Allaah – the One free from all defects – made clear in this noble aayah (verse) that people have been made into nations and tribes so that they may come to know each other, not that they should boast and have pride over one another. And Allaah the Most High considered the most noblest of them to be the one with the most piety and taqwaa. Likewise, the previously mentioned narration shows the same meaning, and guides to the fact that it is from the ways of jaahiliyyah to vainly boast and to have false pride for one’s fore fathers and ancestry.

This is what the calls of jaahiliyyah lead to, whereas Islaam is in opposition to this. Rather Islaam calls to modesty, humility, taqwaa and to having love for the sake of Allaah, and that the true and sincere Muslims are merely one of the categories of the children of Aadam (’alayhis-salaam), and that the Muslims are a single body and a single structure; each part supporting the other and each part feeling the pain that the other parts are suffering as occurs in an authentic hadeeth (narration) from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), that he said: “The Believer to the Believer is like a solid building, one part supports the other.” And he interlaced his fingers to demonstrate this. [7].

The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) also said: “The example of the Believer in their mutual love and mercy is like the example of a body, if one part of the body feels pain, then all the body suffers in sleeplessness and fever.” [8]

O people! I call to you in the name of Allaah. Does your nationalism call you to these noble manners of mercy and kindness to the Muslims the Arabs and the non-Arabs and of having mutual sympathy and concern for them, and feeling pain at their pain? No, by Allaah! Rather it calls you to having allegiance with those who have evil character and it calls you to cultivating enmity and hatred for those who deny this false creed of nationalism. So beware, O Muslim who desires safety and salvation, and consider the reality of the affair with a fair consideration, without being prejudiced with party spirit and desires. Only then you will see the reality as it truly is. So may Allaah guide me and you to the means of safety and salvation.

And it is related by Imaam al-Bukhaaree in his Saheeh (8/137), that a young man from the Muhaajirs and a young man from the Ansaar quarreled. So the Muhaajir said: “O Muhaajirs! (meaning: rally to my help).” And the Ansaaree said: “O Ansaar!” So the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) heard this and said: “Is it with the call of jaahiliyyah that you are calling out, and I am present amongst you!” Even though the term Muhaajir and Ansaar are two ascriptions which are beloved to Allaah the One free from all defects and He has praised these two groups with a very great praise, in His the Most High’s saying:

“And the first to embrace Islaam from the Muhaajirs and the Ansaar, and those who followed them in goodness, beliefs and actions. Allaah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens of Paradise, beneath which rivers flow, to live therein forever. That is the supreme achievement.” [Sooratut-Tawbah 9:100].

Yet in the above incident, this ascription to the Muhaajirs and seeking the help from them, and the Ansaar and seeking the help from them, when the likes of this was considered to be from the calls of jaahiliyyah, then what about those who claim allegiance e to nationalism and seek help through that and become angry for that? Will this not be more fitting to be considered one of the calls from the days of jaahiliyyah? This is a matter in which there is no doubt, and it is one of the clearest of all matters.

And this is what has been established in the authentic hadeeth (narration), from al-Haarith al-Ash’aree (radiyallaahu ’anhu), that the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “I order you with five things which Allaah ordered me with: The Jamaa’ah, listening, obeying, hijrah (migration) and jihaad in the way of Allaah the Mighty and Majestic. So whosoever separates from the Jamaa’ah by a hand span, he throws the yoke of Islaam from his neck, unless he repents. And whosoever calls with the call of jaahiliyyah (the days of ignorance), then he is from the hoarded heap of Hell Fire.” It was said: Even if he fasts and prays? He said: “Even if he fasts and prays. So call with the call of Allaah which Allaah gave: The Muslims, the Believers, Worshippers of Allaah.” [9]

This hadeeth is absolutely clear with regards to rendering futile the calls to nationalism. Its callers deserve that they should be from the heap of Hellfire, even if they fast and they pray and claim that they are Muslims. So what a severe threat and severe warning is given here; warning every Muslim from the calls of jaahiliyyah and warning them from entering into this even if such calls are adorned with false talks and enchanting speeches. Rather it is a deception and a blind following which leads it s people to the worst and most despicable of ends. And we ask Allaah for safety and freedom from that.

Footnotes:

[1] Naqdul-Qawmiyyatul-’Arabiyyah (pp.39-44), slightly edited

[2] Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa (3/456)

[3] Related by al-Bukhaaree (8/137)

[4] Related by Muslim in his Saheeh (6/21), from Aboo Hurayrah (radiyallaahu ’anhu).

[5] Hasan: Related by Aboo Daawood (no. 5116) and at-Tirmidhee (no. 4233) from Abu Hurayrah (radiyallaahu ’anhu). It was authenticated by Ibn Taymiyyah in Kitaabul-Iqtidaa‘ (p. 35).

[6] Saheeh: Related by Ahmad (5/411), and it was authenticated by Ibn Taymiyyah in Kitaabul-Iqtidaa‘ (p. 69).

[7] Related by al-Bukhaaree (no. 481) and Muslim (no. 2585) from Aboo Hurayrah (radiyallaahu ’anhu).

[8] Related by al-Bukhaaree (no. 6011) and Muslim (no. 2586) from an-Nu’maan Ibn Basheer (radiyallaahu ’anhu).

[9] Saheeh: Related by at-Tirmidhee (no. 2863) and at-Tiyaalisee (no. 1161) and others. It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in his checking to Ibn Abee ’Aasim’s as-Sunnah (no.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Racism: Is There a Solution?

From the 'Invitation to Islam' Newsletter, Issue 4, January 1998

Nigger, Paki, Gollywog, Chink, Honkey, Sand-Nigger [1] .... The list of remarks which signify racism in our world, is endless. But to many people in the West, racism no longer exists. Many believe that our 'free'(?) world has eradicated this problem. The rights of homosexuals and animals are given higher priority, and people believe that the real oppression in the world lies here! Such delusion clouds the reality which we live in. Whilst animal rights activists and homosexuals march so vigorously for freedom, they seem to forget that people the world-over are continually being oppressed, simply due to the colour of their skin or the label of their race. How sad it is that the Western world conveniently chooses to ignore the devastating consequences of this problem.

According to the Oxford dictionary, racism is the: "belief in superiority of particular race; antagonism towards other races" [2]. From such a simple definition arises so much oppression and hatred. The belief that one particular race is superior to another, has led to injustice and tyranny against fellow humans. Racism is a disease which has taken on epidemic proportions and has even become accepted in many societies, past and present. But one may well ask, where did such behaviour originate from?



Origins

The origins of racism can be found in the annals of history. However, people are often biased and very subjective in their findings. For example, a Jew may claim that racism started with the expulsion of the Jews from Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE [3]. An Afro-centric[4] person on the other hand, may claim that racism originated from the European colonisation of Africa and the engagement with the slave trade. Each race can thus claim to reveal the origins of this problem according to their own historical sufferings.

Islam however, is not like this. Because Islam was not revealed for a specific set of people or for a specific period of time, it is able to answer this question in a truly objective manner. This is one of the reasons why Islam has been so successful against racism. The origins of racism, as explained by Islam, go back to the beginning of mankind's creation. Before the creation of man, Allaah the Most High, had already created the Angels and the Jinn. Amongst the Angels at that time was a Jinn by the name of Iblis. Iblis had resided amongst the Angels and was very obedient to Allaah. However, this was to change, as Allaah then created man. This new creation of Allaah was created from clay and named Adam. He was first in the line of humanity, and as a result occupies a very special place in history. From him and his wife Hawwa (Eve), the generations of humanity have descended. After his creation, Allaah ordered the Angels and those with them to prostrate to Adam. The Qur'an informs us of this important event, from which we may all learn a valuable lesson:

"And (remember) when We said to the Angels: 'Prostrate yourselves to Adam', and they all prostrated except Iblis. He refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers"
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:34)

and:

"(Allaah) said: 'What prevented you (Iblis) that you did not prostrate?' Iblis said; 'I am better then him, you created me from fire and you created him from clay'"
(Surah Al-A'raf 7:12)

In Islam, the other name for Iblis is 'Shaytan'[5] or the Devil. Thus, the root of racism is attributed to the Devil. Iblis's insistence on being better than Adam, aroused his arrogance and pride. And what was the reason for this insistence? Nothing more then the fact that Iblis was of fire and Adam was of clay. It was at this stage in the history of the world, that the ugly head of racism first reared itself.

Iblis, the Devil, was consequently the world's first racist! This Islamic explanation helps us to understand the reality of racism. Pride and arrogance leads to people thinking that they are better than others, simply because of their physical makeup. This pride and arrogance is truly a Devilish trait which humans have learnt from Iblis, the accursed Devil. Iblis's refusal to prostrate before Adam led to his expulsion from the company of the Angels, and he vowed to Allaah that:

".. I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (humanity) on the earth and I shall mislead them all, except Your chosen slaves among them"
(Surah Al-Hijr 15:39-40)

True to his word, the astray Devil has indeed adorned the path of error for most of mankind throughout the ages. One of these adornments has of course been the Devilish behaviour of Racism.



Manifestations

Ever since Iblis's refusal to bow down to Adam, the world has seen an increase in racism. Not only were people affected by this trend, but so were religions, creeds and ideologies. Before long Religions and creeds were justifying the superiority of some over others. An example of this is the religions of Judaism and Hinduism. By their very teachings, both of these ancient religions are racist. With Judaism, a person cannot become a Jew unless be/she is born from a Jewish mother. This then means that all non-Jews cannot enter Paradise, simply because they were not born into this faith! With Hinduism, not only does it degrade the Creator by representing him as a monkey, rat, cow, elephant and even the male private organ (!), but it has also created one of the worlds most ancient forms of racism - the caste system. According to Hinduism, the higher castes originate from the upper body-parts of God, such as the chest and head, whereas the lower castes come from the lower bodyparts of God such as the legs and feet! This theory of degrading the Creator then justifies the oppression which happens to the lower castes. Such is this oppression, that if a higher caste person walks through the shadow of a lower caste person, he deems himself to have become impure and consequently has to bathe himself!

Other religions such as Christianity, have often been used to justify racist ventures. During the age of exploration the European powers used Christianity to justify their own imperial ambitions. The infamous Spanish Conquistadors used Christianity as a pretext to wipe out the Inca and Aztec civilisations of Central and South America during the 15th and 16th centuries. Nations such as the Dutch and the British used Christianity to justify their horrendous treatment of native Africans. The notorious Trans-Atlantic slave trade saw one of the worst forms of racism ever implemented. This form of racism saw entire cultures wiped out and replaced with the culture of their racist aggressors. This is why even today, many of the surnames which people from the Caribbean have, are in fact the names of their ancestral European slave masters.

It is not only religion which has been gripped by this disease, but also science. By the 19th century the Western world had rejected religion and was looking towards science to provide the answers for our existence. The dominant theory at the time was Charles Darwin's theory of Evolution. However, unknown to many, Darwin's expeditions were only-funded by the British government so that a scientific base could be used for racist and imperial ambitions. The theory espoused that man evolved from apes. It then claimed that some people had not fully evolved from their primate forms, and were thus inferior to others. These inferior people were said to be the non-Europeans, and especially the Africans. Thus, on a mission to civilise these 'savages', the Europeans used Darwin's theory to oppress and destroy many parts of the world.

The 20th century has also seen attempts to justify racism and its theories. During the 30's and 40's the German Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler used the credentials of the Aryan[6] people, to legitimise his ruthless actions. The Apartheid regime of South Africa also used racism and racial segregation to maintain its existence. This has continued until today with many groups advocating clear White supremacy over the rest of mankind. The Ku Klux Klan, the British National Party and the Aryan Nation are examples of such groups.

The faces of racism are many. It should not be thought that racism is only conducted by the Europeans or Whites. Racial superiority over Whites has also been advocated by Black people during this century. After centuries of oppression, the Black community in the Western world expressed its sentiments in an explosive way. The decade of the 60's saw many civil rights movements emerge. Along with these came all the radical movements who popularised slogans such as 'Black Power'. Before long there were many movements who openly advocated racism against White people. What made things even worse, was that some of the most vocal movements attached themselves to the religion of Islam - a religion which (as will be seen) destroys racism from its very root. Amongst these groups were the Nation of Islam and the Ansarullah[7]. They openly advocated that the White people were devils and Black people were gods. Their open (but false) attachment to Islam helped to visualise Islam as being racist - something which could not be further from the truth.



The Solution

So what is the solution for this world-wide epidemic? As Muslims we know that to defeat racism means to defeat Iblis, the Devil. Because humans are weak, it would be imperative that we adopt some, divine method in tackling this Devilish disease. This method is none other then ISLAM, the untainted and pure religion which came to benefit humanity through its teachings.

Just as Islam explains the origins of racism, it also tells us how to combat it. This is firmly expressed in the Qur'an, when Allaah explains the reason for our variety as different races and peoples:

"O' mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Indeed the most honourable of you in the sight of Allaah is the one with the most piety"
(Surah Al-Hujjarat 49:13)

It is clear from this verse as to how humanity should act towards one another. We have been created like one huge beautiful garden with many different types of flowers in it. Each flower is clearly distinguished from the other, yet they all belong to the same garden. This unity of the nations can only be achieved when people recognise that it is Islam which will bring the different peoples of the world under one banner. And it is within this banner that people can achieve true piety and thus excel themselves in the sight of Allaah.

The teachings of Islam cut racism from its very root. By looking at the sayings and actions of the last Messenger, Muhammed (saws), we can see how racism was truly obliterated with the advent of Islam. The Prophet (saws) said: "Indeed there is no excellence for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab over an Arab, nor a White person over a Black one, nor a Black person over a White one, except through piety"[8].A statement like this tells us that this man, Muhammed, was truly a recipient of Divine inspiration. His words were not empty like the words of so many leaders today. Rather, he was always the first to lead by example, and this is why we find that during his lifetime so many different types of people accepted Islam. From amongst the Prophet's companions we find that he had an Ethiopian companion by the name of Bilal. Bilal had been a slave before he accepted Islam, and as a result his standing in Arabian society was worse then the animals. However, upon Bilal's conversion to Islam, the force to combat the disease of Iblis, became known to all. Bilal was given a status like no Black slave had been given before. He was given the immense honour of being the first person to call the Adhaan (call to prayer) in Islam's glorious history. More importantly however, he was accepted as an equal and a brother by the Prophet and his companions.

Through its teachings and practical implementation by the Prophet and his companions, Islam has spread to every corner of the known world. You will not see a more assorted group of people than the Muslims. From China to Spain, Siberia to Australia - never has there been such a wide body of people all united under one banner - the banner of Islam.

The Prophet (saws) said: "Whosoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for nationalism or calling to nationalism or assisting nationalism and then dies, he dies the death of the pre-Islamic days"[9]. This statement of the Prophet makes it clear that the consequences of involving ourselves in nationalism (which is a form of racism), is dying upon disbelief. And whosoever dies upon disbelief will undoubtedly taste the Fire of Hell. Through such statements, Islam totally isolates all forms of racism which can occur amongst humanity. It is indeed sad, that people cannot observe such beautiful advice, for if they did then maybe all the bloodshed caused by nationalism, ethnic cleansing etc. can be avoided.

The rites and injunctions of Islam also help to overcome racism. An example of this is the prayer of the Muslims. When Muslims pray in congregation, they are commanded by Islam to join together their ankles and shoulders to those next to them. Whether a man is a king, a leader, a stave, a judge or even a beggar, this command is incumbent upon every Muslim. Thus Blacks, Whites, Arabs, Indians, Malays and all other races: are truly united by worshipping their Creator. This unity is not only confined to the prayer, but to the whole of ones life, to the extent that Muslims try to fall under the saying of their beloved Prophet who said: "The example of the believers in their mutual love and mercy is like the example of a body; if one part of the body feels pain, then all the body suffers in sleeplessness and fever "[10]. It is evident that a Muslim follows this example set by the Prophet, when he/she feels distress at the situation of the Muslims around the world, be they from Africa, Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia etc. Unity amongst such a wide range of people, can only be created by Islam.

Another rite which has helped so many to eradicate racism from their lives, is the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca), which is obligatory upon every Muslim at least once in a lifetime. The Hajj brings together the peoples of the world, all at one time of the year, in one place. Anyone who has witnessed this annual rite of Islam, will truly testify that there is nothing quite like it. The breathtaking view of millions of people gathered together, all for the purpose of worshipping Allaah, is unforgettable. It was this rite of lslam which changed the life of the famous Black nationalist-turned-Muslim, Malcolm X[11]. Describing his experiences he said: "Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as is practised by people of all colours here in this ancient Holy land.... There were tens of thousands of pilgrims from all over the world. They were of all colours, from Blue-eyed blondes to Black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the White and non-White. America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem"[12].

The words of Malcolm X can be added to; it is not only America which needs to understand Islam, but rather the whole world. Islam has brought so much to the lives of so many, that it is inconceivable that racism could be defeated without it. From the moment the Prophet preached his message of unity under the worship of Allaah, did the light of hope shine forth in this World of darkness. Honour has been given to all those who have entered Islam. Throughout the ages, those who normally would have been downtrodden were rescued and dignified by Islam. Today, this is still continuing. People who were clearly racist (like Malcolm X) have been humbled and overwhelmed by the truth of Islam. British National Party members, Ku Klux Klan members, members of the Nation of Islam and many others from racist organisations, have all become united under the banner of Islam. It is now up to the people of the world to choose; do they want to stay in the darkness of racism or do they want to be illuminated by the light of Islam?

Either way, Islam will still be, the ONLY solution for racism.



Footnotes
1 Sand-Nigger: A racist term for Arabs.
2 The little Oxford Dictionary - 7th Ed - 1994
3 In 70 CE Jerusalem was under the Roman empire. Following revolts by the Jews, the Romans expelled them and destroyed their temple. After this the Jews became widely dispersed and were oppressed greatly by the Christians. During the Middle Ages the Jews were granted sanctuary by the Muslim Empire from this oppression. This debt was paid back when the Jews came into Palestine and stole the land of the Muslims! It is indeed ironic that the same people who were once racially persecuted, have now turned racist persecutors.
4 Afro-centric: One who identifies immensely with Africa as being a place of origin for the human race.
5 In English he is known as 'Satan', 'Lucifer' or 'Beeizebub'
6 Aryan: Anyone who speaks an Indo-European language; However in Hitler's case it had more to do with physical characteristics, such as having Blond hair and Blue eyes.
7 The founder of this freakish and unstable cult is Dwight York, who was born in 1935 in New York, USA. In 1967 he officially formed this overtly racist group. Like so many other cult leaders, York has claimed divinity and abused his power. His corruption has even landed him in jail (for tax evasion!), and his sexual promiscuity has caused rumours that he has AIDS. Thegroup has undergone much change since its inception in the late 60's. Since then it has changed a number of times and now goes by the name of the 'Holy Tabernacle Ministry'. It has also dropped its affiliation with Islam.
8 Authentic - Reported by Ahmed
9 Reported by Muslim - Eng Trans. Vol.3 p.1029-30, No.4555
10 Reported by Muslim - Eng Trans. Vol.4, p.1368, No.6258
11 Malcolm X was born as Malcolm Little in 1925 in Omaha, Nebraska. After spending time in jail he joined the Nation of Islam and changed his surname to indicate his detachment from White superiority. Malcolm's powerful oratory skills brought international recognition for the Nation of Islam. However, upon discovering that Elijah Muhammed had impregnated 2 of his secretaries, Malcolm's faith in this man who claimed to be a messenger of God, was shaken. In 1964 Malcolm made the Hajj which was to show him true Islam. He changed his name to Malik al-Shabbaz, and formally renounced the Nation of Islam. This renunciation led to his assassination in 1965.
12 Taken from his biography by Alex Haley.

[Desperado]

Nice topic Lucky...

For the students of politics it is well known that the the term 'national state' is a new in the world system. Its history starts only after French Revolution of 18 th century. Before that the content of a state was quite different.

However the process of Globalization has brought many different views to the World State System with its terms like 'deterritorialization', 'localization' etc. This process implies that the 'national stathood' is losing its strength in world politics.

The case of the European Union is a strong example. EU is on its way to change the current rules of statehood. Within a few decades EU is planning to cut out national state borders and reform the whole Europe into small counties/regions to govern the Union more effectively. It seems that Nationalism has not worked well throughout the history and it has caused disasterous wars like World War I and II.

However, in Central Asia we can observe a new arising movements of Nationalism. State leaders are trying to establish the fundaments of statehood on Nationalism. The front agenda in Asian media is boasting with the identity, culture and history of their own nationals. And it is quite obvious for someone to see the damages of that toward mutual colloboration, cooperation and unification in the region. Why should we live through the pass of Europe to understand the side effects of Nationalism? Can not we just learn from the mistakes of Europe on Nationalizm?
At the same time I do not want to say that nationalizm is evil, it is good for someone to know own history and national identity, BUT I THINK CENTRAL ASIA IS GOING TOO FAR ON NATIONALIZM.

[Desperado]

All of them have their origin in the Liberation Movement of Muslim Lands that started in the early and mid -19th-20th Century, whose leaders are known with names like Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, Mustafa Kemal, Hasan Al-Banna, Abul A'la Mawdudi, Sayyid Qutb, 'Abd al-Salam Faraj, Fathi Yakan and etc.

hmmm...
I am not quite sure about Hasan Al Banna... Lucky r u personally familiar with his teachings? (I have heard about his movement of 'Muslim Brotherhood' and its one of the largest enlightening sunni movements in the history of Islam with its multi million followers)

[AbdurRahman]

abt hasan al banna plz visit
http://www.spubs.com/sps/sp.cfm?subsecID=NDV02&articleID=NDV020001&articlePages=1

Luyky
these pant turkists even started to blv in "tengri turk" it is ancient turkic god.
hahaha very funny.we are not shamanists.
btw...we have already discussed it.

[MUHLIS]

Hey What's up people (Assalam alaikum to who it concerns),

Yesterday, in Choyhona, I got discussion with couple guys from Turkey. They were calling Turkic nations to unite and gain their strength and glory that they had in the past centuries. I let people know that Pan-Turkism (or Turkish Nationalism) is an evil movement and rooted in nationalism (so was Nazi movement of Germany). If people of Turkistan unite as one nation, what about the persians of Central Asia (Tajiks, Iranians and etc)? Are they supposed to be segregated?? What about the Russian speaking minority of Cental Asia (may be they are not even minority in certain parts of the aforementioned region)?? Usually, Pan-Turkism is disguised under the flag of Islam. Guys, Let me tell you something: Pan-Turkism, Pan-Arabism and even Pan-Islamism (Pro-Khilafa Movement) are foreign ideas to Islam. All of them have their origin in the Liberation Movement of Muslim Lands that started in the early and mid -19th-20th Century, whose leaders are known with names like Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, Mustafa Kemal, Hasan Al-Banna, Abul A'la Mawdudi, Sayyid Qutb, 'Abd al-Salam Faraj, Fathi Yakan and etc. Some of these leaders even called for bloodshed and the destruction of innocent lives in order to achieve their political goals.

I just would like to post here couple articles regarding the evils of Nationalism, Tribalism, Racism, and Revoltism for the sake of Pan-Islamism.
If Yes to Islam, what about Christians? Bhuddists, Atheists??? Are they supposed to be segregated??
Sorry , I do not get what you want to say...... :(

If Yes to Islam, what about Christians? Bhuddists, Atheists??? Are they supposed to be segregated??
Sorry , I do not get what you want to say......


don't worry about them. islam carries about other realigons too.
take buhara. for a long time jewish lived there without forgetting their religion.
so
Yes to Islam!!

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Hey What's up people (Assalam alaikum to who it concerns),

Yesterday, in Choyhona, I got discussion with couple guys from Turkey. They were calling Turkic nations to unite and gain their strength and glory that they had in the past centuries. I let people know that Pan-Turkism (or Turkish Nationalism) is an evil movement and rooted in nationalism (so was Nazi movement of Germany). If people of Turkistan unite as one nation, what about the persians of Central Asia (Tajiks, Iranians and etc)? Are they supposed to be segregated?? What about the Russian speaking minority of Cental Asia (may be they are not even minority in certain parts of the aforementioned region)?? Usually, Pan-Turkism is disguised under the flag of Islam. Guys, Let me tell you something: Pan-Turkism, Pan-Arabism and even Pan-Islamism (Pro-Khilafa Movement) are foreign ideas to Islam. All of them have their origin in the Liberation Movement of Muslim Lands that started in the early and mid -19th-20th Century, whose leaders are known with names like Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, Mustafa Kemal, Hasan Al-Banna, Abul A'la Mawdudi, Sayyid Qutb, 'Abd al-Salam Faraj, Fathi Yakan and etc. Some of these leaders even called for bloodshed and the destruction of innocent lives in order to achieve their political goals.

I just would like to post here couple articles regarding the evils of Nationalism, Tribalism, Racism, and Revoltism for the sake of Pan-Islamism.
If Yes to Islam, what about Christians? Bhuddists, Atheists??? Are they supposed to be segregated??
Sorry , I do not get what you want to say...... :(



Dear Muhlis,

I did not mean to say that. I did not say a green light to Islam and Red light to Other Religions. We are not talking about Islam and other religions here. The topic says smth else, re-read please. I was trying to say that "pan-turkists" propagate their nationalistic, may be even Nazi, ideas under the disguise of Islamic revivalism. What I wanted to say was that we, as people, should be aware of that and say, "Islam is good but not pan-Turkism."

As far as other religions, it is a different topic and totally unrelated here, Indeed there is no compulsion in religion as it says in Quraan, "There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut ( false gods, ideas, systems, people, desires in the form of god) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower." (surah Baqarah:256)

Dear Lucky,
I truly value and respect your knowledge and passion about OUR religion.
First of all, I am not "kafir", neither "pan-turkist".
Maybe I did not understood what you meant. But as far as I know Islam does not create any contradiction with my national feelings. So, if am Uzbek, I will automatically feel very friendly to Kirgizs, Kazahs, Turkmens and other Turkic nations not to Arabs or Persians. I do not understand why should I say "no" to that feeling? May be it is not "panturkism"? Coming from my experience I have to tell you that kind of "nazi"like nationalistic feelings exist mostly among Arabs and Persians not among Turks. Oh, how Arabs love termins like "Arab world", "Arab leauge" which eventually (to my great surprise) gets mixed up with "Muslim world" and "Islam".
Dear brother, ISLAM is a holy thing, please do not assosiate it with so earthly things like nation! In judgement day every single person will be questioned according to his or her "imlu-amal", NOT for saying "no" to some nation or nationalist grouping, or (certainly) for being Arab or Persian.
Hush koling,

Biz Müslüman Türk Kavmiyiz! İslamiyet forklıdır, Milliyet, Kavim forklıdır.
İnancın kerekleri bardır, Türk Harsı'nın kerekleri bardır. Dilimizi, Milli Kültürümüzü, Geleneklerimizi yani Türklüğümüzü korumamız bizga vazifedir!

Allah bizlerga Türk adını berdi! Türk Tilini berdi! Siz onları kötü mü köresiz ? Hakir mi köresiz ? Tövbe deng haa

Biz Allah kulu Türk Millatiyiz!

Biz Pan-Türkist emas Türk Milliyetperveriyiz! Müslümanız Elhamdülillah.

Biz M&sl&man T&rk Kavmiyiz! İslamiyet forklıdır, Milliyet, Kavim forklıdır.
İnancın kerekleri bardır, T&rk Harsı'nın kerekleri bardır. Dilimizi, Milli K&lt&r&m&z&, Geleneklerimizi yani T&rkl&ğ&m&z& korumamız bizga vazifedir!

Allah bizlerga T&rk adını berdi! T&rk Tilini berdi! Siz onları k&t& m& k&resiz ? Hakir mi k&resiz ? T&vbe deng haa

Biz Allah kulu T&rk Millatiyiz!

Biz Pan-T&rkist emas T&rk Milliyetperveriyiz! M&sl&manız Elhamd&lillah.


i dont totally understand what u said
write it in english plz

Yes To Pan-Turkizm! Yes to ISLAM! Prishlo vremya ob'edenitsa! Kaz, Uzb, Kirg, Turkm, Turkey etc. A che nashet Tajikistana, eto uje ih problema oni ne Turki!
Tolko v edinstve nasha sila! No nashi prezidenti delayut vse chtobi nashi narodi ne soshlis'. Kajdiy hochet ostatsa raisom v svoem kolhoze! No to Karimov, Yes to ISLAM!!! Turkestan nado vozrodit', hotya eto poka ne sovsem realno :(
Prishlo vremya pokazat' vsemu miru, ih nastoyashee mesto!

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Yes To Pan-Turkizm! Yes to ISLAM! Prishlo vremya ob'edenitsa! Kaz, Uzb, Kirg, Turkm, Turkey etc. A che nashet Tajikistana, eto uje ih problema oni ne Turki!
Tolko v edinstve nasha sila! No nashi prezidenti delayut vse chtobi nashi narodi ne soshlis'. Kajdiy hochet ostatsa raisom v svoem kolhoze! No to Karimov, Yes to ISLAM!!! Turkestan nado vozrodit', hotya eto poka ne sovsem realno :(
Prishlo vremya pokazat' vsemu miru, ih nastoyashee mesto!

Islam and PanTurkism are ooposites of each other :!:

Islam and PanTurkism are ooposites of each other

islam can be saved only in pan turkist idealogy.
arabs and persians are worst triators and imperialists who use realigon for estabilishment of their ideas

Guest: 68cdbd06
S toboy soglasen!!! Yes to Panturkizm! Yes to ISLAM!!

[Oguz Yabgu]

Sevgili kardaşlar!

Milletimiz TÜRK Dinimiz İSLAM'dır. Türklüğü bize bağışlayan ALLAH'tır!

Biz Türkler Allah'ın sevdiği bir Milletiz. O'nun Dinini koruyan TÜRK Milletidir! "TÜRK"lüğünüzü koruyun, ALLAH'a iman edin!

Regaib kandiliniz mübarek bolsıng. Bizde bu gün kutlanıyor.

Oguz Yakbu
Nazism and Isllam sound quite funny together,
who said you turks are loved by allah?
hehehehehe.....

[Oguz Yabgu]

Türkçe(özbekçe) ayt!

[Oguz Yabgu]

Sen İngiliz misin ?

Oguz Yabgu,
Dogru soyledin!!! Biz Allahnin sevdigi bir milletiz!!!
Only TUrk can built a Khaliffat!! Yes To Turkistan, Yes to Islam!!!
**** KUffars!!!!

[Oguz Yabgu]

Allah razı olsun!

Türklerin Allah yolu budur! Milliyetsiz adam mı bolur!!!! Biz peygamberin İstanbul Fethi için müjdelediği o güzel/yahşı MİLLETİZ!


FATİH SULTAN MEHMET VE TÜRK MİLLETİ!

[Oguz Yabgu]

ÖZÜNÜZE KELİN!


KANDAY DOĞDUYSANIZ(TÜRK) ÖYLE KALIN!

Doğduğunuz gibi TÜRK, Ümmetiniz gibi MÜSLÜMAN bolun! ALLAH sizi TÜRK kılmışsa bir hikmeti vardır! SEVGİLİ PEYGAMBERİMİZ "Milletinizi" ve "Vatanınızı" SEVİN diye buyurur! MÜSLÜMAN İSENİZ yolunuz budur.

ÖZÜNÜZE KELİN!


KANDAY DOĞDUYSANIZ(TÜRK) ÖYLE KALIN!

Doğduğunuz gibi TÜRK, Ümmetiniz gibi MÜSLÜMAN bolun! ALLAH sizi TÜRK kılmışsa bir hikmeti vardır! SEVGİLİ PEYGAMBERİMİZ "Milletinizi" ve "Vatanınızı" SEVİN diye buyurur! MÜSLÜMAN İSENİZ yolunuz budur.

allah allha ben kendimi arabistana arab iranda fars malayziyada malay gibi gorup ve bu milletlerin hepsini bir kardes millet gibi gorsem mutsuz mu olayim? :(

[Oguz Yabgu]

Sana düşman ol diyen var mı ? Ben herkesle Dostum, kardeşim.

[Oguz Yabgu]

PEYGAMBERİMİZ herkes Milletini ve Vatanını sevmelidir demiştir. Milleti'ni sevmek, harsını ve dilini korumak herkesin üstüne vazifedir! Aksi halde Milletini inkar edersen günaha girersin. Herkesi de özüne kardeş göreceksin elbet. Sana kötülük etmedikleri sürece.

ispatla
korandan delil getir

[Oguz Yabgu]

Bu Peygamber sözüdür! Kuran'da geçmez.

Ama Kuran'dan delil istiyorsan Allah'ın Kavimleri yaratışına bakabilirsin. Allah isteseydi tüm insanları bir yapardı! Aynı dili verirdi. Ama Allah kavimler yaratmıştır. Her Kavmin ve insanın hayatta görevi/misyonu vardır! Türkler İslamı korumuş ve yaymıştır. Doğru, ahlaklı yaşamıştır. Allah sana ne verdiyse onu korumak zorundasın!

Dil mi verdi ? KORU!

Hars mı verdi ? KORU!

Din mi verdi ? KORU!

ALLAH seni TÜRK yaptıysa KORU! Sana delilim budur güzel kardeşim. Ben senin yanından geldim bu ellere.

bunlari verdi demek onu korumak anlaminda gelmez
tabii kendi milletin saygi gostermeliyiz ama onu baskasi ile karistirmeni yasalamaz.
meselen modern ozbekcede cok farsca kelimeler vardir.
zaten orta asyada siz turkler sevmediginiz ve nefret ettiginiz Navruz bayrami her yilde kutlaniyor bunlar hepsi turk bayramlari degil ama biz onlari kendi kulturumuze karistirmisiz.

[Oguz Yabgu]

Özbek kardeş biz Nevruz'dan nefret etmiyoruz. "Nevruz/ Yengi Kün,yıl" Türklerin Milli bayramıdır!

Biz Nevruz diye ortalığı kan gölüne çeviren teröristlere kızıyoruz. Ekmeğini yediği Vatanına ihanet edenlere kızıyoruz. Türkiye'nin Devlet Kanalı olan TRT her nevruz bayramında ÖZBEKİSTAN'ın Nevruz Şenliklerini canlı yayınlar.


Allah sana ne emanet ediyorsa onu korumak boynunun borcudur! Bu İslam'da büyük bir kuraldır. Atalarımızdan gelen binlerce yıllık derin kültürümüzü yaşamak ve yaşatmak bize büyük bir manevi huzur verir. Bu da Milli şuurdur! Mesela Türkiye Türkleri Milli kültürünü hiç yaşayamıyor. Çünkü artık Kültürünü dahi bilmez hale geldiler. Arapların oyunu olan dansözlüğü kendi oyunları zannediyorlar. Oysa böyle rezil bir şey asla Türklere ait olamaz. Mesela Özbeklerin dansları tam bir Türk dansıdır! İzlerken çok büyük keyif alıyorum.

turkiyede de danlar var
erkekler uzun sapkalri giyip
doniyorlar.dmi?

[Oguz Yabgu]

Evet, Mevlana Hazretlerinin müridleri. Onlara mevlevi deniyor. Allah'a yakınlaşmak için yapılıyor. Çocukluktan itibaren eğitim veriliyor. Normal bir adam onu yapmaya kalksa başı dönüp kusar :)

Ege ve İç Anadolu oyunları da güzeldir bizim. Yiğitlik oyunlarıdır. Ege'li Yiğitlere EFE/ZEYBEK, İç Anadolu Yiğitlerine SEYMEN denir. Diğer yöre oyunları daha çok kol kola halay oluyor.

malesef bizde yigitlik oyunlari yoktur :oops: :oops: :oops:
sadece kiz oyunlari
ama simdi kavkasdan ve turkiyeden yigitlik oyunlari ozbek kulturune geliyor.

onceden oynamak kizlar icin ve bir namusli bi seydi.
cok adam kizini oyuncu olasini istemez.

simdi dugunlerde bir cok yigit kavkaz oyunlarini oyunuyorlar.

[Oguz Yabgu]

Özbek Kültürü, Türk Kültürü'nin bir parçası. Her Türk Topluluğu birbirini tamamlar. Çünkü Türkler parçalanmıştır. Sizde olan bizde olmayabilir, bizde olan sizde olmayabilir. Ama bunların hepsi bizim kültürümüzdür.

Kızlar açık saçık giyinmediği sürece oynamasında bir sorun yoktur. Kadınların ve kızların aşağılanması Arap geleneklerinden gelir. Çünkü İslamiyeti Araplardan aldığımız için onların yoz geleneklerini de hatayla almışız. Türklerde Kadının yeri büyüktü. Asla hor görülmezdi. Tarihimizde Kadın Kağanlar bile olmuştur.

arablar bu kadar boyle nefret etmek yanlistir.
turkiyede coklar arablari sevmediklerini biliyorum.
genelde
ozbek klturu eski turk shamanizm, fars ve islam kulturunden olusmustir.
daha cok fars ile islamin etkisi coktur.dedogm gibi eski turk kultiru ve shamanizmi de biulabilirsin.

[mujreem]

Özbek Kültürü, Türk Kültürü'nin bir parçası. Her Türk Topluluğu birbirini tamamlar. Çünkü Türkler parçalanmıştır. Sizde olan bizde olmayabilir, bizde olan sizde olmayabilir. Ama bunların hepsi bizim kültürümüzdür.

Kızlar açık saçık giyinmediği sürece oynamasında bir sorun yoktur. Kadınların ve kızların aşağılanması Arap geleneklerinden gelir. Çünkü İslamiyeti Araplardan aldığımız için onların yoz geleneklerini de hatayla almışız. Türklerde Kadının yeri büyüktü. Asla hor görülmezdi. Tarihimizde Kadın Kağanlar bile olmuştur.
Og'uz, bak kardash, senden bir ricada buluna bilirmiyim?
Shu Bo'lu'mu'n adi din ve kyultur, burada daha chok dini konular konushulur, madem bo'yleyken, shu bo'lu'me girmektense, bashka siyasi, dil veya bulushma, yada chat forumlarini yazip ta, hich olmazsa shu bo'lu'mu biraz serbest birakabilirmisin?
Burada chunku siyasi konular konushulmaz, buradakilerin chog'u tyurkcheyi bilmez, ne diye hem kendine zorluyorsun, hem de ortalig'i bulandiriyorsun?
Hele "O'zbekista Problemler ve Cho'zumler" bo'lumunde orta asya siyasi durumu hakkinda sizinkiler yeni topic achmish.
Bashka bir bo'lu'mde ermeniler, ermeni katliami hakkinda topic achmish, ishte onlar senin ichin daha gyuncel olmali, ne dersin gardash?

sert konushduysam takma, olur bende bazen.
bashirilar dilerim
mujreem

[Oguz Yabgu]

Müjreem,

Tabi Kusura bakmıyorum. Çünkü ben doğruları söylüyorum.

Burası "Din ve Kültür" bölümü. Bende Türk Kültürü'nden ve İslami geleneklerden bahsediyorum. Asıl sen bilmeden yorumlar yapıyorsun. Bölümün anlamını bile şaşırmışsın. Bu konular senin ağrına gidiyor. Çünkü İşine gelmiyor.


Öte ki gardaş,

Biz fars kültürünü etkiledik, onlar bizi değil!!!!! Ama onlardan aldığımız şeylerde olmuştur tabi. İslam kültürü'nüde aldık çünkü Müslümanız. Arapları kötü görmüyorum ama bizi bozduklarına inanıyorum. 1. Dünya savaşında bizi sırtımızdan vurup İngilizlerin yalakası olan Araplar değilmiydi ?!!

Hiç kimseye düşmanlığım yok ama doğruları görmek zorundayız. Yoksa aynı hatalara yine düşeriz.

[Oguz Yabgu]

İslam ve Türklük kardeş gibidir! Allah vergisidir! Seni Türk yaratmıştır. Sana Soysuz ol dememiştir.

Milli kimliğine sahip çıkmazsan yine onun bunun altında yaşarsın. Herkes seni kullanır. Şimdi ABD Özbekistan'a bulaşıyor. NEDEN ? Çünkü Özbekler Milli kimliğine sahip değil. Kolayca ele geçebilir. Sömürge olabilir! Bunları görmek mecburidir. Dinsiz ruh, Milliyetsiz adam bolmaz!!

mujreem,
slish ne tvoe delo kto i gde che pishet', hochet pisat' pust' pishet, ne hochesh ignoriruy, mne toje v etom forume mnogo kto ne nravitsa tot je samiy armyan so svoim genocidom, ili evrey kotoriy imeet nik Uzbe4onok, da esho gerb v pridachu vistavil.. nu i che? ne mogu je ya im govorit' che im delat', da i voobshe Oguz Yabgu, kak mne kajetsa vpolne priderjivaetsya temi...
Bez obid tolko...
Turk Buyuk!!!

islemiyeti unutmak turklugu unutmakdir.
biz islamiyeti unutumaya basladigimiz gunden turklugu de unuttuk.
yasasin Islam!!

Yakbu Kardes
Turkiye kendisi milli kimligine sahip degildir.
Turkiye kendisi AB ile ABD ye zaten bulasmis.
Yaw !! nicin AB ni gotunu bu kadar yaliyorsunuz beeee?
nicin incirlikteki amerikan hava alanini kapatmiyorsunuuz?
Orada amerikan pilotlari sizin cok kizlarinizi namusuna degdigini biliyormusun?

arablar sizleri vurmus olsa bizim ne isimiz var?

[Oguz Yabgu]

Kardeş bizde onlara kızıyoruz. Bende aynı senin gibi düşünüyorum. Türkiye de de Milli bilinç yok. Biz bu hastalığı yok etmek istiyoruz. Bu mücadele de Özbekistan Türklerinin de bize katılmasını istiyoruz!

malesef bizde yigitlik oyunlari yoktur :oops: :oops: :oops:
sadece kiz oyunlari
ama simdi kavkasdan ve turkiyeden yigitlik oyunlari ozbek kulturune geliyor.

onceden oynamak kizlar icin ve bir namusli bi seydi.
cok adam kizini oyuncu olasini istemez.

simdi dugunlerde bir cok yigit kavkaz oyunlarini oyunuyorlar.Kizarmang juda bunchalik! yigitlik oyinlari yok emish.........Sizda yok bolsa kerakda, Fargonaga keling, toylarga kiring korasiz Yigitlarni oynashini!
He sizi karenguu oshaaa!!!!

Kizarmang juda bunchalik! yigitlik oyinlari yok emish.........Sizda yok bolsa kerakda, Fargonaga keling, toylarga kiring korasiz Yigitlarni oynashini!
He sizi karenguu oshaaa!!!!

anashu fargonadagi oyinlar ohirgi paytda kavkazdan kelgan oyinlardir,ozbek oyinlari emas

Kizarmang juda bunchalik! yigitlik oyinlari yok emish.........Sizda yok bolsa kerakda, Fargonaga keling, toylarga kiring korasiz Yigitlarni oynashini!
He sizi karenguu oshaaa!!!!

anashu fargonadagi oyinlar ohirgi paytda kavkazdan kelgan oyinlardir,ozbek oyinlari emas
Kayerizga karab fol ochyapsiz?

Kizarmang juda bunchalik! yigitlik oyinlari yok emish.........Sizda yok bolsa kerakda, Fargonaga keling, toylarga kiring korasiz Yigitlarni oynashini!
He sizi karenguu oshaaa!!!!

anashu fargonadagi oyinlar ohirgi paytda kavkazdan kelgan oyinlardir,ozbek oyinlari emas
Men Kavkazda Andojon polkasi yoki borligini eshitmaganman! Va togrisi "Dilhorij", "Tanovor" va boshka kuylarga oynaydigan Kavkazliklarni ham kormaganman!!! Togri bizda ham ularda ham "Lazgi" bor ammo Uzbekcha "Lazgi" va ularning Lazgisi umuman boshka-boshka narsalar!
Umuman dono halkimiz deganki " Ikki a'zoingni ishlatishda e'tiyot bol, biri ikki ayaging ortasida, ikkinchisi ikki jaging orasida"!!!

[Oguz Yabgu]

Yiğitlik oyunları alacaksanız diğer Türk illeri'nden alın. Türkmenistan, Kırgızistan, Kazakistan kimi. Bizim EFE oyunlarını da seversiz belki. Bizim EFE/ZEYBEK oyunlarını biliyor musunuz ?

[Clarion1]

Oguz kardas
Hayirli sey yapiyom diyorsun
ama gercek soylemek dogru ama her gercegi soylemek hatadir

ve dilde mi bilmem nerde islam diyorsun (sanki) ve araplari kotuluyorsun
1 dindar araba 1000 dinsiz turku degishmem.

ve bu hakikati unutmamaya calish " her kes bir biri ile imtihanda dadir... (ayeti kerime)


Biraz sert ise hiz kizma
anliyorum hayirli sey istiyorsun ama hayirli seylere "hayirli vesileler ile gidilir"

gule gule

[Oguz Yabgu]

Dindar arabı bende severim. Dindardan zarar gelmez. Ama ben bütün Türkleri severim. Eğer kardeşlerim inançsızsa onlara İslamiyeti anlatır, Müslümanlığa davet ederim.

[Oguz Yabgu]

Arapları kötülemiyorum, gerçekleri söylüyorum. Yazdıklarımın hepsi doğrudur. Ben yalan söylemeyi hiç sevmem.

Arapları kötülemiyorum, gerçekleri söylüyorum. Yazdıklarımın hepsi doğrudur. Ben yalan söylemeyi hiç sevmem.
Sag ol

[Oguz Yabgu]

Sende sağ ol kardeşim.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Ajib, shu masala tughrisida suhbat qurgan ekanmiz yoddan kutarilib ketibdi:

Aziz forum ishtirokchilari (Inkodan ozga) sizlarning fikrlaringizni bir bilaylikchi:

Pan-Turkism wa Islom ayni bir mafkurami yoki ular ziddiyati tabiiymi?
Ular ikkisi ortasida bir murosa nuqtasini, topib osha nuqta nazaridan dialog olib borish wa ularni uyghunlashtirish mumkinmi?

Mening fikrim avvalgisicha qoldi : ) Pan-Turkism butunlay dini Islomga yod wa zid fikr.

[Royal]

Ajib, shu masala tughrisida suhbat qurgan ekanmiz yoddan kutarilib ketibdi:

Aziz forum ishtirokchilari (Inkodan ozga) sizlarning fikrlaringizni bir bilaylikchi:

Pan-Turkism wa Islom ayni bir mafkurami yoki ular ziddiyati tabiiymi?
Ular ikkisi ortasida bir murosa nuqtasini, topib osha nuqta nazaridan dialog olib borish wa ularni uyghunlashtirish mumkinmi?

Mening fikrim avvalgisicha qoldi : ) Pan-Turkism butunlay dini Islomga yod wa zid fikr.

Iya, Abdulaa nima boldi ?

Nime bir toplamni iyosie harakatini din bilan taqoslamoqchisila a ?

Nima boldi chakka otvottimi deyman !

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Iya, Abdulaa nima boldi ?

Nime bir toplamni iyosie harakatini din bilan taqoslamoqchisila a ?

Nima boldi chakka otvottimi deyman !

Bazi birodarlarimiz...chalghib ketishadi..."Pan-turkism azolari Muslimon, Islomni ozlariga din qilib olishgan...bular Islom yolida harakat qilishayapti" degan hayollarga borib Turk Millatchiligi bilan Islomni uyghunlashtirmoqchi buladiki bu katta xatolikdir....Chunki Turk Millatichiligining bazi dohiylari butunlay dinsiz bulishgan...va no Islomiy fiklrarni ilgari surishgan

Mana shu maqsadda ochilgan edi ushbu mavzu...wa albatta Islom dinida millatchilik yoq-ku!! Turklar birlashsada Tojiklar, Arablar, Pokistonliklar kochada qolib ketsa Royal dustim uyat bulmaydimi??

Iptorlikni Ramazon payti kupincha Pokistonlilarning masjidida ochaman, ovqatlari dahshat ularni. Vaabshe maladets millatda shular!!

[Gareeb]

Pan-Turkizm Islomga butunlay zid goya.Birlashtiruvchi narsa faqat Sof Islomiy Aqida bo'lishi kerak, millatchilik emas.

[UzLand]

Pan-Turkizm Islomga butunlay zid goya.Birlashtiruvchi narsa faqat Sof Islomiy Aqida bo'lishi kerak, millatchilik emas.

Бирок тарихга назар ташлайдиган булсангиз, миллий гоя диний гоядан кура бирлаштиришда эффективрок булган. Туркия, араб давлатларидаги пан-арабизм. Менимча, айни пайтдаги коидадан холи холга Эрон революциясини олсак булади, бирок у хам купрок умумисломий эмас, шиа гоялари атрофида мужассамлашган. Бунга сунни арабларга булган адоватлари хам бир сабабдир.

[Royal]

Bazi birodarlarimiz...chalghib ketishadi..."Pan-turkism azolari Muslimon, Islomni ozlariga din qilib olishgan...bular Islom yolida harakat qilishayapti" degan hayollarga borib Turk Millatchiligi bilan Islomni uyghunlashtirmoqchi buladiki bu katta xatolikdir....Chunki Turk Millatichiligining bazi dohiylari butunlay dinsiz bulishgan...va no Islomiy fiklrarni ilgari surishgan

Mana shu maqsadda ochilgan edi ushbu mavzu...wa albatta Islom dinida millatchilik yoq-ku!! Turklar birlashsada Tojiklar, Arablar, Pokistonliklar kochada qolib ketsa Royal dustim uyat bulmaydimi??

Iptorlikni Ramazon payti kupincha Pokistonlilarning masjidida ochaman, ovqatlari dahshat ularni. Vaabshe maladets millatda shular!!
Pan_Turkizm bu oz yolidagi bir harakat bolsa, faqat ular dinioe biror masalani ortaga qoyishadi yani ISLOM dinini qurol qilishadiki: "Hammamiza Musulmonmiza va TURKIEmiza , shuni uchun hammaiza bir bolishimiz kerak" degan bir siyosat yurgizishadi.
Bu bilan ularni yurgizayotgan siyosatlarini ISLOM dini bilan taqqoslash orinli bolmasa kera deyman.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Pan_Turkizm bu oz yolidagi bir harakat bolsa, faqat ular dinioe biror masalani ortaga qoyishadi yani ISLOM dinini qurol qilishadiki: "Hammamiza Musulmonmiza va TURKIEmiza , shuni uchun hammaiza bir bolishimiz kerak" degan bir siyosat yurgizishadi.
Bu bilan ularni yurgizayotgan siyosatlarini ISLOM dini bilan taqqoslash orinli bolmasa kera deyman.

Royal-bahslashish orin youq, man sizni tughri tushundim, qani edi har bir pan turkist sizdaqa maghizli busa...olasizda oziyam lekin : )

[Uzbekxonim]

NO to pan-turkism, NO to Islam, YES - to democratic development and religious tolerance.:super:

[Gareeb]

NO to pan-turkism, NO to Islam, YES - to democratic development and religious tolerance.:super:
Yes to Islamic State and rulings, not to hypocrite , double standard , failed democrasy and deviant religions :rolleyes:

[Scofield]

Hey What's up people (Assalam alaikum to who it concerns),

Yesterday, in Choyhona, I got discussion with couple guys from Turkey. They were calling Turkic nations to unite and gain their strength and glory that they had in the past centuries. I let people know that Pan-Turkism (or Turkish Nationalism) is an evil movement and rooted in nationalism (so was Nazi movement of Germany). If people of Turkistan unite as one nation, what about the persians of Central Asia (Tajiks, Iranians and etc)? Are they supposed to be segregated?? What about the Russian speaking minority of Cental Asia (may be they are not even minority in certain parts of the aforementioned region)?? Usually, Pan-Turkism is disguised under the flag of Islam. Guys, Let me tell you something: Pan-Turkism, Pan-Arabism and even Pan-Islamism (Pro-Khilafa Movement) are foreign ideas to Islam. All of them have their origin in the Liberation Movement of Muslim Lands that started in the early and mid -19th-20th Century, whose leaders are known with names like Jamal al-Din al-Afghani, Mustafa Kemal, Hasan Al-Banna, Abul A'la Mawdudi, Sayyid Qutb, 'Abd al-Salam Faraj, Fathi Yakan and etc. Some of these leaders even called for bloodshed and the destruction of innocent lives in order to achieve their political goals.

I just would like to post here couple articles regarding the evils of Nationalism, Tribalism, Racism, and Revoltism for the sake of Pan-Islamism.man i can bet on that you are the real evil; indeed :twisted:

[Uzbekxonim]

correct democratic development and religious tolerance do not include what you've enumerated here:rolleyes:

I assume that you dream about living in Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic State:lol:


Yes to Islamic State and rulings, not to hypocrite , double standard , failed democrasy and deviant religions :rolleyes:

[Gareeb]

correct democratic development and religious tolerance do not include what you've enumerated here:rolleyes:

I assume that you dream about living in Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic State:lol:
What is the best democracy in the world? USA? UK?

[Uzbekxonim]

Holland, Switzealand and many others, USA and UK are not the only democratic states.

What is the best democracy in the world? USA? UK?

[Royal]

What is the best democracy in the world? USA? UK?
In my house!!!

rest of it stops at my door steps and my democracy start then!!!

[Scofield]

What is the best democracy in the world? USA? UK?
tell me a democratic country under the Islamic regime!!! please tell me!!!

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Holland, Switzealand and many others, USA and UK are not the only democratic states.


Guys let's do not rush to make arguments without deeply thinking about what you talking about.

For the outside viewer the whole argument sounds like a, "I like Vanialla Ice Cream, because blah and blah," and another say, "No, Vanilla Ice Cream sucks, Chocolate Ice Cream rocks."

Of course, for the Kuffar, Homosexuals, Hypocrities of all types Democracy is de Best!! Common sense, can you think of a homosexual choosing to live under Shariah ruling and be stoned to death the next day? Of course, not....

Or can you think of a muslim of the highest calibre preferring country where everything is made legal except Islaam? Of course not!!

So the answer is: For Muslims it is the true Shariah system that works best!! And for the rest Democracy nothing but disguised hypocricy, [250 years of occupation, ensalvement and segregation of blacks as in the US, imperialism, two great world wars and etc]

The only thing that irritates me is that Democrtats yell and scream there will be freedom no compulsion and etc...How come the West now fighting to spread their Democracy to the Islaamic World by force?? There is nothing holy about democracy, I would call it survival of the fittest!! The stronger will win, insha'Allah definietly that Flag of Islaam will be raised all over the world eventhough disbelievers hate it.

At the same token, the same freedom loving democrats argue that Shariah should not impose religion on people!! I say Shariah does not impose a religion on anyone except the one who calls himself a Muslim, then he has to obeserve his religion.

For the non-Muslims, they have to obserce laws of the Islaamic State the way they do in any other country. What they hate about Islamic State is that the law does not permit them to openly commit immorality! Of course Satan is their companion, shahawat have been beautified for them.

For my muslim brothers and muslima sisters, I advice to work hard towards their goal of living in the Islamic State, at the earliest possible time to make Hijrah to Darul Islaam from the Darul Kufr!! It is not permissible to permanently and indefinietly settle down amongst the kuffar!!


In the Qur’aan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination!” [al-Nisa’ 4:97]


In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.


For those who have valid excuses (do not have travel documents, financial means, fear of arrest by the resident country and etc) may Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala make it easy for them.

ameen!!

[Uzbekxonim]

[QUOTE=Akhee-Abdullah]Guys let's do not rush to make arguments without deeply thinking about what you talking about.

For the outside viewer the whole argument sounds like a, "I like Vanialla Ice Cream, because blah and blah," and another say, "No, Vanilla Ice Cream sucks, Chocolate Ice Cream rocks."



Of course, for the Kuffar, Homosexuals, Hypocrities of all types Democracy is de Best!! Common sense, can you think of a homosexual choosing to live under Shariah ruling and be stoned to death the next day? Of course, not....]


should I see this words as insulting ones? I am a normal person and don't consider myself involved in any above-mentioned groups.:evil:




Or can you think of a muslim of the highest calibre preferring country where everything is made legal except Islaam? Of course not!!


I am talking about about religious tolerance? do you know what it means?
and what do you mean by saying 'a muslim of the highest calibre'?


So the answer is: For Muslims it is the true Shariah system that works best!! And for the rest Democracy nothing but disguised hypocricy, [250 years of occupation, ensalvement and segregation of blacks as in the US, imperialism, two great world wars and etc]


]

The only thing that irritates me is that Democrtats yell and scream there will be freedom no compulsion and etc...How come the West now fighting to spread their Democracy to the Islaamic World by force?? There is nothing holy about democracy, I would call it survival of the fittest!! The stronger will win, insha'Allah definietly that Flag of Islaam will be raised all over the world eventhough disbelievers hate it.


I dind't say that democracy is holy, this is your conclusion. What about Islamic States? you wanna say that there everybody is equal?

[


At the same token, the same freedom loving democrats argue that Shariah should not impose religion
on people!!

absurd! nobody is talking about imposing the religion.



I say Shariah does not impose a religion on anyone except the one who calls himself a Muslim, then he has to obeserve his religion.


For the non-Muslims, they have to obserce laws of the Islaamic State the way they do in any other country. What they hate about Islamic State is that the law does not permit them to openly commit immorality!


could you define 'immorality' please?



Of course Satan is their companion, shahawat have been beautified for them.

For my muslim brothers and muslima sisters, I advice to work hard towards their goal of living in the Islamic State, at the earliest possible time to make Hijrah to Darul Islaam from the Darul Kufr!! It is not permissible to permanently and indefinietly settle down amongst the kuffar!! For those who have valid excuses (do not have travel documents, financial means, fear of arrest by the resident country and etc) may Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala make it easy for them.

ameen!![/


You are fanatic. I would not wonder if you would go to some democratic/christian state carring a bomb and saying: "For Islam! ameen!!"

[Royal]

... NO to Islam,....

Es bor ?
ili u Vas toj ptihonku uhodit shursha ?

manimcha hamma "islom fundamentalizmi" dib faqat terrorizmni tushunsa kerakde a?

[Akhee-Abdullah]

NO to pan-turkism, NO to Islam, YES - to democratic development and religious tolerance Yeah right!! LOLS, is it your version of Religious Tolerance?? Green Light to all religions except Islaam?? That's what I understood from your statement sorry gal : )

You are fanatic. I would not wonder if you would go to some democratic/christian state carring a bomb and saying: "For Islam! ameen!!"

Wow, you are indeed tolerant to people of different opinions and religions!! I have been in this forum.uz since 1999, since then I have been posting against religiois extremism, bombing of innocent civlians and suicide bombings The Ruling on Suicide Bombings!! (http://www.forum.uz/showthread.php?t=22692)

With what mind now you blame with me those heinous crimes and labels? I know why, it is because I am a muslim, all practicing Muslims are terrorists, and the rest like you "nominal muslims" are good muslims because you guys are cool!! LOLS BTW, she means, a country can be Democratic and Christian at the same time. But It cannot be based on Islaamic Shariah!! Is it not a hypocricy you preferring Christians ruling over Muslims?? May be you are Christian who knows LOLS


Tupurdim sandaqa Demokratlarga wa Demokratiaga!!

[Uzbekxonim]

When I said "No to Islam" I didn't mean Islam as a religion I meant it as governmental rejime.


Es bor ?
ili u Vas toj ptihonku uhodit shursha ?

manimcha hamma "islom fundamentalizmi" dib faqat terrorizmni tushunsa kerakde a?

[Uzbekxonim]

once again I repeat whenever I said "No to Islam" I didn't mean the religion itself but the governmental rejime. These are two different definitions, I hope you know that.

you didn't answer my questions. I concluded that you prefer attacking and insulting the person to normal civilised conversation.



Yeah right!! LOLS, is it your version of Religious Tolerance?? Green Light to all religions except Islaam?? That's what I understood from your statement sorry gal : )



you misunderstood me, by saying relegious tolerance I mean green light to all religions, there shouldn't be a dominating religion as it is in Muslim countries.


Wow, you are indeed tolerant to people of different opinions and religions!! I have been in this forum.uz since 1999, since then I have been posting against religiois extremism, bombing of innocent civlians and suicide bombings The Ruling on Suicide Bombings!!



With what mind now you blame with me those heinous crimes and labels? I know why, it is because I am a muslim, all practicing Muslims are terrorists, and the rest like you "nominal muslims" are good muslims because you guys are cool!! LOLS BTW, she means, a country can be Democratic and Christian at the same time. But It cannot be based on Islaamic Shariah!! Is it not a hypocricy you preferring Christians ruling over Muslims?? May be you are Christian who knows LOLS


this is you're talking to yourself only, you don't hear what I say and you misinterprete my words.


Tupurdim sandaqa Demokratlarga wa Demokratiaga!!


and this is not a Muslim approach at all.:rolleyes:

[stanford]

this is not a Muslim approach at all.:rolleyes:

Simply because not all Muslims are really Muslims. There are plenty of muslims who claim to be muslim not for the sake of God but for the sake of fame, power, money,..etc and god is saying that they will be receiving the worse of punishment. Islam is the only religion in the world that says that not every muslim is going to Heaven.


Only He knows what is in the heart and chest of the person..

[Royal]

once again I repeat whenever I said "No to Islam" I didn't mean the religion itself but the governmental rejime. These are two different definitions, I hope you know that.

About that watch what You say ok!!!

Becouse today i forget my "crystall ball" at home, so I can't read Your mind,
that You some thing and You mean something else!!!

remind me next time, so will bring my crystall bal to read Your mind ok , through Your posts.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

About that watch what You say ok!!!

Becouse today i forget my "crystall ball" at home, so I can't read Your mind,
that You some thing and You mean something else!!!

remind me next time, so will bring my crystall bal to read Your mind ok , through Your posts.


Royal mangayam Crystal Ball dan uzatovoring muahahah...FedEx shipp qivoring, insonlarri ichidagi gapini bilvolaman : ) I though I read "No to Islam" so she wrote "No to Islamic Government"?? I need to wear the balls as well...

BTW, Being against Islamic government is the same as being against Islaam correct me if I am wrong!!

Allaah, the Exalted, said: "And He who does not rule by what Allaah has revealed it is they who are the unbelievers." (5:44)

Of course if a person rules by what other than Allah, the Exalted revealed/legislated, but he believes Islaamic ruling is better then he would not be considered unibeliever rather a sinner. And Wallahu a'lam

[PainKiller]

To all Panturkists:
a)If eventually somehow we(Central Asian coutries, Azerbajcan, Turkie) will unite and build one state, Who will be the President or the Baba-Turkistan?)
b)Where wil be the capital?
c)What will be the official Language?
d)U guys hate Armenians, Killed thousands of them, SHOULD we join u in that hate campaign in case we will Unite? :?
Please, I am not talking about Union of Turkish states, I am about those who made hints on Building the same State, one souvereign unit, do not confuse.
Waiting for ur answers)))
PS. Moreover, I noticed that Turks have a strong stereotypical complexes when it comes to the Race Issues, like "Real turks should have Blue Eyes, white skin blah blah blah, which I really Hate. PLUS, I have noticed that Turks whom I mate, can consider Uzbeks or Azeris as people with close culture, BUT NOTHING ELSE. Uzbeks, if u really think that Turkish people think that u r equal, the same people-U R MISTAKEN. Turks, like to look down on people whom u try to bring under the same cloth a.k.a Uzbeks, Tatars, Kyrgyz etc.

[INSOMNIA]

To all Panturkists:

a)If eventually somehow we(Central Asian coutries, Azerbajcan, Turkie) will unite and build one state, Who will be the President or the Baba-Turkistan?).

I will be:)

b)Where wil be the capital??).

Let's say Ferghana Valley


c)What will be the official Language?

esperanto:D

d)U guys hate Armenians, Killed thousands of them, SHOULD we join u in that hate campaign in case we will Unite? :? .

Personally I don't have any prejudice towards any nation.;)

[PainKiller]

I will be:)



Let's say Ferghana Valley




esperanto:D



Personally I don't have any prejudice towards any nation.;)
U do not qualify in that case for the "Pan Turkist" Title, my dear. :cry: :cry:

[hangug]

Pan-Turkism by Turgut Uzal, he dead, his ideas also.

[PainKiller]

Pan-Turkism by Turgut Uzal, he dead, his ideas also.
Well, the observations show the opposite. As well as Hittler is dead but fashism still exists; Lenin is dead, but look at The Duma, LOL.
so how can u say that Panturkism does not exist?:rolleyes:

[INSOMNIA]

well, I think I do qualify for this title azizam:)
lekiginchi, iz menya viydet prekrasniy prezident. Tovarishi, esli vi hotite jit' bogato i krasivo, golosuyte za menya;)
Vibor za Vami!!!:D
U do not qualify in that case for the "Pan Turkist" Title, my dear. :cry: :cry:

[PainKiller]

well, I think I do qualify for this title azizam:)
lekiginchi, iz menya viydet prekrasniy prezident. Tovarishi, esli vi hotite jit' bogato i krasivo, golosuyte za menya;)
Vibor za Vami!!!:D
INSOMNIA,
i BELIVE u CAN be a perfect President, I said U do not qualify for being called a Pan-Turkist, because those pan-Turkists hate Armenians; see a lot of their future plans concentrated in or around Turkey Itself, I guess including the Language as well. So how can u be one of them? It is like claiming to be a Fashist, and not hating the Jews or not liking the third Reikh(spell??) :lol:

[INSOMNIA]

:lol: yeah I have to admit maybe probably perhaps u r right;) but when the time comes do not forget to vote for me:D

INSOMNIA,
i BELIVE u CAN be a perfect President, I said U do not qualify for being called a Pan-Turkist, because those pan-Turkist hate Armenians; see a lot of their future plans concentrated in or around Turkey Itself, I guess including the Language as well. So how can u be one of them? It is like claiming to be a Fashist, and not hating the Jews :lol:

[Alex]

No to Pan Turkism, No to Islamic State Yes to Independent Democratic Uzbekistan!!!!!!!!
Меня удивляет как многие, радуясь избавлению от России, тут же готовы прогнуться под Турцию... Нам не надо ни того, ни другого. Надо быть по-настоящему независимым государством, а не просто сменять подчинение России, на подчинение Турции или США. Наивно полагать что США или Турция будут лучше нежели Россия... Запомните одно: никто - ни США, ни Россия, ни Турция не заинтересованы в процветании Узбекистана, они заинтересованы лишь в использовании Узбекистана для того чтобы обеспечить процветание себе... И господа, кричащие вот наше спасение пантуркизм - они просто хотят сменить протекторат России на протекторат Турции...

[Uzbekxonim]

You'd better think carefully before choosing the words, pan-turkism has a political background, it means unifing on the basis of being turks and establishing one unified country, i.e. turk government.

by saying "yes - to Islam" you mean a Shariah governmental rejime but not the Islam as a religion, right? and if not (as it is seen from your postings adressed to me) you put together uncomparable and irreplacible things - pan-turkism and Islam as a religion.

please be carefull with the definitions and the meanings. you'd better name this thread: "No to pan-turkism, yes to Islamic government" so the meaning would be clear.

regards, Uzbekhonum

p.s. you'd better be more polite at least with girls:rolleyes:


Royal mangayam Crystal Ball dan uzatovoring muahahah...FedEx shipp qivoring, insonlarri ichidagi gapini bilvolaman : ) I though I read "No to Islam" so she wrote "No to Islamic Government"?? I need to wear the balls as well...

BTW, Being against Islamic government is the same as being against Islaam correct me if I am wrong!!

Allaah, the Exalted, said: "And He who does not rule by what Allaah has revealed it is they who are the unbelievers." (5:44)

Of course if a person rules by what other than Allah, the Exalted revealed/legislated, but he believes Islaamic ruling is better then he would not be considered unibeliever rather a sinner. And Wallahu a'lam

[Gareeb]

Ongi chirkin goyalar bilan zaharlkanganlarga ming tushuntirasngiz ham Haqni qabul qilmaydi. Qanday qilib Nur a Zulmatlarni tenglashtirish mumkin a?!

[PainKiller]

p.s. you'd better be more polite at least with girls:rolleyes:
WOAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: u were kidding, weren't u?

[UzLand]

No to Pan Turkism, No to Islamic State Yes to Independent Democratic Uzbekistan!!!!!!!!
Меня удивляет как многие, радуясь избавлению от России, тут же готовы прогнуться под Турцию

Stop! Пан-тюркизм, это не значить следовать Турции. Просто Турция сейчас среди всех тюркоязычных стран более продвинутая, поэтому смотрят в ее сторону. Я не за пан-тюркизм, но за более тесные связи.

[UzLand]

d)U guys hate Armenians, Killed thousands of them, SHOULD we join u in that hate campaign in case we will Unite? :?


It worked both ways. Armenians killed lots of Azeris too. Armenian Dashnaks were among those Red Army units who massacred the Kokand people in 1918.

[Wolfman]

qadim zamonda oqqush, qisqichbaqa va cho'rtan baliq bo'gan ekan. ular aravani osmonga, quruqlikka va suvga tortishgani uchun haligacha manzilga yetolmagan ekan.

qissadan hissa, o'zbek siyosati ham mana shu ahvolda. har kim o'zini hohlagan tarafiga tortayapti. birlik yo'q.



iStam

[UzLand]

qadim zamonda oqqush, qisqichbaqa va cho'rtan baliq bo'gan ekan. ular aravani osmonga, quruqlikka va suvga tortishgani uchun haligacha manzilga yetolmagan ekan.

qissadan hissa, o'zbek siyosati ham mana shu ahvolda. har kim o'zini hohlagan tarafiga tortayapti. birlik yo'q.



iStam

Бирлик булиши учун, хар бир мамлакатда камида бир хил иктисодий ва сиесий сиесат юритадиган хукуматлар булиши керак.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

You'd better think carefully before choosing the words, pan-turkism has a political background, it means unifing on the basis of being turks and establishing one unified country, i.e. turk government.

by saying "yes - to Islam" you mean a Shariah governmental rejime but not the Islam as a religion, right? and if not (as it is seen from your postings adressed to me) you put together uncomparable and irreplacible things - pan-turkism and Islam as a religion.

please be carefull with the definitions and the meanings. you'd better name this thread: "No to pan-turkism, yes to Islamic government" so the meaning would be clear.

regards, Uzbekhonum

p.s. you'd better be more polite at least with girls:rolleyes:


I do not discriminate based on gender : ) I believe females are equally compatible in terms of intellectualdebates with men : ) so I tend to treat them equal to men(it is my personal shortcomng, nothing to do with religion, I learned not to discriminate based on gender in the States while going to Shcool out there)

This is where the harshness comes from. If you consider yourself a member of the "weak gender" then "hey why not?", I will treat you special!! However, I have been quite sarcastic!!

But do you mean to sound nice to you, "I gotta accept every cr++++ that comes out of your mouth?" Then sorry gal, that's way too much of a request.

In terms of other girls I have always been nice to every single one of them except one person. That person swore at me several times before I had called her with any names, at the right time I swore back at her : ) I know what I did was completely wrong and against the good manners, there is nothing to justify it.

That person however, believes that she has the right to swear at me, and I have to apologize every time I repeat what just she had done to me. She thinks she does not have to apologize because she is a woman!! Before making public inquiry into my PM some of the gentleman should have asked why I did what I did....may be things would have come into light and a lot differently!!

BTW that person, mocked the religion of Allah, called the messenger of Allah pedophile, insulted muslims beliefs but she was never asked to apologize!! What a hypocricy : ))

[Einstein]

Originally Posted by Gareeb
What is the best democracy in the world? USA? UK?

Holland, Switzealand and many others, USA and UK are not the only democratic states.

Exactly
These countries are so democracy that are giving gays and lesbians the right to marry. And even in some places of these democratic countries people can marry to their dogs and cats. :evil: :evil: :evil:

[PainKiller]

In terms of other girls I have always been nice to every single one of them except one person. That person swore at me several times before I had called her with any names, at the right time I swore back at her : ) I know what I did was completely wrong and against the good manners, there is nothing to justify it.

I never ever said a single swear word to u, Akhee)
Still cannot accept the truth?


That person however, believes that she has the right to swear at me, and I have to apologize every time I repeat what just she had done to me. She thinks she does not have to apologize because she is a woman!! Before making public inquiry into my PM some of the gentleman should have asked why I did what I did....may be things would have come into light and a lot differently!!
yeah, sure))))))))
[QUOTE]BTW that person, mocked the religion of Allah, called the messenger of Allah pedophile, insulted muslims beliefs but she was never asked to apologize!! What a hypocricy : ))
Such a bull shit, Akhee.
It was said that Anybody who is married to a 9 year old in modern time would be labeled a Pedophile, and after four months I got the statement" Did u call a prophet pedophile?"
Yeah, such a Hypocrat)))

[Akhee-Abdullah]

I never ever said a single swear word to u, Akhee)
Still cannot accept the truth?

[QUOTE]
That person however, believes that she has the right to swear at me, and I have to apologize every time I repeat what just she had done to me. She thinks she does not have to apologize because she is a woman!! Before making public inquiry into my PM some of the gentleman should have asked why I did what I did....may be things would have come into light and a lot differently!!
yeah, sure))))))))

Such a bull shit, Akhee.
It was said that Anybody who is married to a 9 year old in modern time would be labeled a Pedophile, and after four months I got the statement" Did u call a prophet pedophile?"
Yeah, such a Hypocrat)))

Sorry I was not talking to you! Have a wonderful day!

[SHOHRUHM1]

It was said that Anybody who is married to a 9 year old in modern time would be labeled a Pedophile

Inkognito, here take this you stupid head, ugly face moron, I will call you BITCH and i will appologize to everyone else for for these wrods but not to YOU unless you repent and appologize for those words refering to the prophet.

And remeber this too

Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah be upon him has married her, yes, when she was 9 but not consumated the marrage (had intimate relationship) untill she reached that age when a woman can have that kind of rel-ship.

My APPOLOGIES to Everyone else!

[Zamon]

Даже незнал что Пророк Мухаммед женился 9 летней девочке.

[PainKiller]

Inkognito, here take this you stupid head, ugly face moron, I will call you BITCH and i will appologize to everyone else for for these wrods but not to YOU unless you repent and appologize for those words refering to the prophet.

And remeber this too

Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah be upon him has married her, yes, when she was 9 but not consumated the marrage (had intimate relationship) untill she reached that age when a woman can have that kind of rel-ship.

My APPOLOGIES to Everyone else!
Shohruh, where is a word about the prophet? I said, for those people like u, jongnam-if somebody today(let's say u) would marry a 9 year old girl, U would go to jail accused with phedopily. Say it isd wrong, but like all Ur friends, u turn it to the prophet.

[PainKiller]

Даже незнал что Пророк Мухаммед женился 9 летней девочке. Замон, да не о пророке тут идет разговор. Год назад, была ремарка что если-бы в наши дни кто женился на 9 летней, то его посадили-бы обвинив в педофилии, И тут Шохрухм1 и прочие вроде него, сразу идут к пророку. Пророк говорите? Qто было давно, сейчас не то время, сейчас за qто сажают.

[UzLand]

she reached that age when a woman can have that kind of rel-ship.

Well, nothing against our Prophet, but that age was different back then (much lower than now) or is there a number? I am just not aware.

[Zamon]

da ponyal o chem idet rech! prosto zdes napisali chto Prorok zhenilsa 9 letnej devochke i potom zhdal i td. Ob etom chestno neznal, prosto malo znayu o zhizni Proroka, znayu basics stuff like kak on stal Prorokom no lichnuyu zhizn neznal. Prosto byl udivlen nemnozhko.

[PainKiller]

But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty (24), married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years (26), at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men's lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection." - - Dr Annie Besant (Dr Annie Besant in 'The Life and Teachings of Mohammad,' Madras, 1932)
I thin this statement is very right.

[Alex]

Stop! Пан-тюркизм, это не значить следовать Турции. Просто Турция сейчас среди всех тюркоязычных стран более продвинутая, поэтому смотрят в ее сторону. Я не за пан-тюркизм, но за более тесные связи. Более тесные связи это хорошо. Вопрос в чем это должно выразиться.

[SHOHRUHM1]

Shohruh, where is a word about the prophet? I said, for those people like u, jongnam-if somebody today(let's say u) would marry a 9 year old girl, U would go to jail accused with phedopily. Say it isd wrong, but like all Ur friends, u turn it to the prophet.

It is clear even for the stupid that your implication refers the prophet who married his wife when she was 9. you used the word 9 which is the same age. so the reference is clear.

Again even though they got married at that age, they did not consumate the marrage untill she got to the right age when woman can have close relationships.

One more thing, refer to the scientific researchs about the women of different regions of the world and the time at which they get to the age of puberty. women of arabian penunsula???

[PainKiller]

It is clear even for the stupid that your implication refers the prophet who married his wife when she was 9. you used the word 9 which is the same age. so the reference is clear.

Again even though they got married at that age, they did not consumate the marrage untill she got to the right age when woman can have close relationships.

One more thing, refer to the scientific researchs about the women of different regions of the world and the time at which they get to the age of puberty. women of arabian penunsula???
Shohruh, that was said about the law in Iran which allows to marry 9 year olds.
Whatever makes u feel happy, u r the best muslim, if it is what u need to hear))

[SmIlIk]

Но то Пан Туркисм, Но то Исламиц Стате Ыес то Индепендент Демоцратиц Узбекистан!!!!!!!!
Меня удивляет как многие, радуясь избавлению от России, тут же готовы прогнуться под Турцию... Нам не надо ни того, ни другого. Надо быть по-настоящему независимым государством, а не просто сменять подчинение России, на подчинение Турции или США. Наивно полагать что США или Турция будут лучше нежели Россия... Запомните одно: никто - ни США, ни Россия, ни Турция не заинтересованы в процветании Узбекистана, они заинтересованы лишь в использовании Узбекистана для того чтобы обеспечить процветание себе... И господа, кричащие вот наше спасение пантуркизм - они просто хотят сменить протекторат России на протекторат Турции...


Алекс, Пантюркизм это не пан-Турция...Я думаю, идея в сотрудничестве государств а не обявлять Халифат или же ставить одного президента во всю Тюркскую "орду"...Почему же и Тюркам/мусульманам не быть близким и помогать друг другу?

Например, EU существует, богатые там стртаны или не совсем. Туда мусульман не пускают (козе ясно почему).

Отнощения с Россией существуют и будут существовать еще долго(по крайней мере до другого президента). Если вы еще незаметили, нынешняя политка Узбекистана не совсем заинтересована в тесных связях не только с Турцией но и с другими Центрально Азиатскими государствами.

[PainKiller]

Например, ЕУ существует, богатые там стртаны или не совсем. Туда мусульман не пускают (козе ясно почему).
&нбсп;


. Смилик, не впускают Мусульман в EU?? А сколько Мусульманских стран в Европе?
Турцию не впускают, и правильно делают. Пусть решат свои проблемы на восточных частях.

[SmIlIk]

Смилик, не впускают Мусульман в ЕУ?? А сколько Мусульманских стран в Европе?
Турцию не впускают, и правильно делают. Пусть решат свои проблемы на восточных частях.

Турцию в ЕU не пускают только потoму, что страна мусульманская и все. Остальное все бред.

[Royal]

Смилик, не впускают Мусульман в EU?? А сколько Мусульманских стран в Европе?
Турцию не впускают, и правильно делают. Пусть решат свои проблемы на восточных частях.
Posle yugoslavskogo oblasti i Albaniya, 3tim budet, kak ris lishnim.

[PainKiller]

Турцию в ЕУ не пускают только потому, что страна мусульманская и все. Остальное все бред.А вот после таких высказываний, нужно ставить ИМО, или вам Глава UE сам в ушко такое шепнул?
Турция, не отвечает требованиям, ей еwё расти и расти...да, ИМО

[Akhee-Abdullah]

It is clear even for the stupid that your implication refers the prophet who married his wife when she was 9. you used the word 9 which is the same age. so the reference is clear.

Again even though they got married at that age, they did not consumate the marrage untill she got to the right age when woman can have close relationships.

One more thing, refer to the scientific researchs about the women of different regions of the world and the time at which they get to the age of puberty. women of arabian penunsula???

Shohruh1m - "prosta" u "otmazka" qilib otiribdi!! Buyniga mana bunday qilib qoysang i biladi!!

This one is the reason for the whole scandal that Uzland guy brought up, I was angry said, what I said, but watching someone mocking the religion of Allah was not easy:

Originally Posted by ИнКоГниТо
Hudodan menga vahiylar keladi.
ps. I believe I am CHOSEN!

Originally Posted by ИнКоГниТо 06-28-2005, 01:35 AM
Да, Я говорила что Мухаммад(с.а.в) Женился на малолетках, что я могу повторить и сейчас. А насчет педофилии, думаю тебе стоит перелистать словарь, и найти определение слову педофил. И потом дать мне знать, Ну чем не педофил? http://www.forum.uz/showpost.php?p=261701&postcount=94 Originally Posted by ИнКоГниТо 06-28-2005, 08:01 PM

Роялу и всем его сторонникам-Иметь сексуальные связи с малолетками и есть педофилия если называть веwи своими именами. Если есть другой термин, дайте- я заменю. http://www.forum.uz/showpost.php?p=262191&postcount=101

She deserves more, but it is not from Islaam to use that language both of us were wrong, we should just ignore! Those who do not want to understand!!

[Alex]

А вот после таких высказываний, нужно ставить ИМО, или вам Глава UE сам в ушко такое шепнул?
Турция, не отвечает требованиям, ей ещё расти и расти...да, ИМО Да... Хотя Смайлик тоже права... Действительно одной из причин того что Турцию не пускают в Европу является то, что она мусульманская... Потому до стандартов ЕС ей еще расти и расти... :D Просто мусульманские стандарты и стандарты ЕС находятся на разных полюсах...

[Alex]

Смилик, не впускают Мусульман в EU?? А сколько Мусульманских стран в Европе? Ни одной... Есть страны где преобладают мусульмане... Албания, Босния и Герцеговина... Вообще страны обычно делят не по религиозному, а по национальному признаку... Это я не для того чтобы спорить с тобой, просто это нужно иметь ввиду... Потому пантуркизм и пр... Это все не то... В каждом конкретном случае, в каждом конкретном вопросе нужно прежде всего проанализировать какую пользу или наоборот вред принесет Узбекистану сотрудничество с тем или иным государством...

[PainKiller]

;) How good to see how u make researches. Why did u skip this one?

Не ты ли, в своё время, обвинила Посланника (соллаллоху алайхи васаллам) в педофилии? Всего
This was the post of Kumush, refering the statement 4 months ago, which did not say "HE WAS A PEDOPHILE". Akhee, Otmazka? Do u really think that I am scared of u or those whom u dance with? I guess it is an aobvious God's complex

[Alex]

Алекс, Пантюркизм это не пан-Турция...Я думаю, идея в сотрудничестве государств а не обявлять Халифат или же ставить одного президента во всю Тюркскую "орду"...Почему же и Тюркам/мусульманам не быть близким и помогать друг другу? Кто и когда помогал кому-то без своего интереса... Пантуркизм подразумевает что ведущую роль будет играть Турция... Оно нам надо...
Отнощения с Россией существуют и будут существовать еще долго(по крайней мере до другого президента). Если вы еще незаметили, нынешняя политка Узбекистана не совсем заинтересована в тесных связях не только с Турцией но и с другими Центрально Азиатскими государствами. Нынешняя политика - да, но речь идет тут о глобальной ориентации... Кстати, Вы меня не так поняли - я вовсе не говорил что Россия должна стать приоритетом... А отношения будут и при следующем президенте - кем бы он ни был...

[SHOHRUHM1]

Shohruh, that was said about the law in Iran which allows to marry 9 year olds.
Whatever makes u feel happy, u r the best muslim, if it is what u need to hear))

You moron, BITCH, kafir,

Tell Uzland or tell whoever you want to bring up my words to crtisize me.

If i were in front of you i would spit at you 100 times. Musor.

Anjonni bir teshigidan chiqib qolib USA ga kelib sani boshing achib qogan burda odamalar sani boshingni har hil musorlar bilan toldirgan san bu boshdagi musorni bir tokishing kere ato sasib ketibdi.

And of course, use my position to show off as a good nice not-fighting-back girl, You are moron thats what u are ,fake.

Again i appologize to other mates. sorry sorry sorry.

Praise be to Allah,
Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Muhammad the best of HUMAN KIND.

[PainKiller]

Use ur position? Ur position...hmmmm

[hangug]

Не теорию, не история-Пантуркизма нечего незнаети, нет смысль обсуждать. Зачем вам думать о тех вещах на что, уже «смеються» услышав. Если хотите заниматься с наукой или решать эту проблему, берите учебник читайте до конца вот вы увидите, кто прав кто нет.

[SmIlIk]

А вот после таких высказываний, нужно ставить ИМО, или вам Глава УЕ сам в ушко такое шепнул?
Турция, не отвечает требованиям, ей еwё расти и расти...да, ИМО

Инкогнито, я очень много читаю и наблюдаю...советую и тебе делать так же перед тем как выставлять аргументы.

[PainKiller]

Инкогнито, я очень много читаю и наблюдаю...советую и тебе делать так же перед тем как выставлять аргументы.Смилик, вот я и говорю ПО МОЕМУ, никто не навязывает, Тугрими, ИМО?

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Simply because not all Muslims are really Muslims. There are plenty of muslims who claim to be muslim not for the sake of God but for the sake of fame, power, money,..etc and god is saying that they will be receiving the worse of punishment. Islam is the only religion in the world that says that not every muslim is going to Heaven.


Only He knows what is in the heart and chest of the person..

Are you referring to me a Kafir again? Have you opened up my heart and seen what's inside? Bola!! Kozinga qarab yur taghin mashina bosib ketsin tilingni ustidan!!

[SmIlIk]

Смилик, вот я и говорю ПО МОЕМУ, никто не навязывает, Тугрими, ИМО?

That was not "in my opinion" thing, it was for a fact. When it is my opinion I will surely ADD "in my opinion"

SMLK

[UzLand]

You moron, BITCH, kafir,

Tell Uzland or tell whoever you want to bring up my words to crtisize me.

If i were in front of you i would spit at you 100 times. Musor.

Anjonni bir teshigidan chiqib qolib USA ga kelib sani boshing achib qogan burda odamalar sani boshingni har hil musorlar bilan toldirgan san bu boshdagi musorni bir tokishing kere ato sasib ketibdi.


Астофурло...мени хам тегиб утиб кетдингиз-а? Шунча лаънатлардан кейин охирида "Praise be to Allah" дейишга бало борми? Сизларга узи шу иборалар яхшигина бахона ва маска булиб колибди-а? Исталган гапларни айтиб, охирига ушани кушиб куйса, гунохларинг ювилиб кетадими?

[UzLand]

Bola!! Kozinga qarab yur taghin mashina bosib ketsin tilingni ustidan!!

Исломда ростдан хам одамни каргаб, унга "машина босиб кетсин" деб емонлик тилаш мумкинми? Бин Ладен хам Оллоху Акбар деган, фатволар укиган, энг зур мусулмонман деган, бирок 2001 йил, 11 сентябрда бир неча мусулмон давлатларининг бегунох фукароларини бир зумда улдириб юборган. Узи сизлар хам бин Ладендан таълим олган куринасизлар. "Оловли йуллар" фильми эсимга тушиб кетяпти. Хамзага ва бошкаларга кузларини лук этиб караб, Оллохни уртага солиб, каргаб, нафрат билан караб турган фильмдаги баъзи уламолар куз унгимга келди. Ушанда кичкина эдим, уларнинг юзини куриб куркиб кетардим. Хозир хам айримларингнинг сузларингдан ана шундай нафрат иси келяпти. Купчилик булсаларинг тошбурон килиб ташлашларинг хам хеч гапмас. Сизлар учун одамлар билан мулокот килишнинг еки муносабатда булишнинг бошка (more civilized) йули ва куринишлари йук эканда.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Астофурло...мени хам тегиб утиб кетдингиз-а? Шунча лаънатлардан кейин охирида "Praise be to Allah" дейишга бало борми? Сизларга узи шу иборалар яхшигина бахона ва маска булиб колибди-а? Исталган гапларни айтиб, охирига ушани кушиб куйса, гунохларинг ювилиб кетадими?

Tegib ketdimi deyman taqsir? Negadir muslimonlarga osilib qolgansiz? Boshqalarning oghzidan bodi kirib shodi chiqib yotibdi hicham indamaysiz? Yoki bir koziz koradimi paqat? Soqirmisiz taqsir ah nima dedingiz? Siz