Orta Asya'da siyasiy durum

Orta Asya’da siyasiy durum



Orta Asya’daki 1990 lardan sonraki demokratik gelishmeleri, bence, vicdani olan hic bir insan pozitif sayamaz. Aksine, memleketlerinin gelecegini dusunen her bir insan atoritar rejime karsilik gostermesi, en azinda diktatorlari savunmaktan kacinmasi lazim. Gelin, simdi O.A. daki duruma bir goz atalim:



1 Devleti yonetmenleri Mahkemeyi elinda tutuyorlar



2 Parlamento onlarin dediklerinden baskasini yapamazlar



3 Ordunun babasidirlar. Istedikleri sekilde kollanirlar.



4 Istedikleri insani istedikleri kademeye koyabilirler, devlet disi etmek,
hapse atmak cok basittir.



5 Insanlarda siyasi kultur gelismemistir veya engel olinmustur. Siyasetten
bahsetmek hapse atilmakla esanlam haline gelmistir.



6 Devlet politikasina karsi olanlar siki iskence altina alinmistir. Artik
senelerce guclu bir oppozisyon ortaya gelemez. Bu simdiki baskanlarin daha
onlarca sene her istediklerini yapabilirler demektir.



7 Oppozisyon partiler cok zayif, daginik ve intellektuel kuvvetsizdirler.



Boyle bir durumda O.A.da demokrasinin gelismesinden bahs etmek cok
mantiksiz kalir. S. Niyazov omur boyu Prezident olma serefini kazanmasi,
baska komsu devletlerde de etki gostere bilir ve bu ihtimala cok-cok
yakindir. Zannederim ki yakin ortalikta baska O.A. cumhuriyetlerinde de
boyle gelismeler olacak. Bu O.A.da yeni bir tarihin baslamasi olabilir.
Insanlarin agzina daha bir kere acilamaz kapaklar vurulacak. Yeni bir
mankurtluk cagi dogacak. Yakin dogudaki politik durum basimiza gelecek,
Libya diktatorlugu, Irak diktatorlugu gibi kuvvetli duktatorluklar
olusacak, milletin basindaki kara bulutlar terror yagmurunu yagdiracak.
Belki su anda beni masal soylemekle suclayanlar olabilir, cunku su anda
boyle bir seyin olmasi belki inanilmazdir. Ama siz O.A. olub bitenleri
iyice izleyin, insanlarin devlet siyasetine karsilik gosterebilmesi
hemen-hemen imkansiz oldugunu gorun, onlarin icindeki dertleri kulaginizla
dinleyin, belki biraz daha yumusarsiniz. Sosyel yaralar artik buyuk cerahet
haline geliyor. Adaletsizlik, rusvet, devlet terrori, fakirlik surekli
yukseliyor. Boyle bir durumde ne yapilmaliki, millet daha rahatlasin? Artik
siyasi partilere guvenmek bebegin 100 kilolu tasi kaldirabilmesine inanmak
gibi kaliyor. Oralardaki partiler zaten bic bir seydir, onlar konusmaya
bile degmez. Disaridaki partiler ise kanati koparilmis kus gibi
kuvvetsizdir. Sadece hatalari saymakla yasaniyorlar. Bazen onlarin buyuk
problemler kalirken, cok kucuk seyleri de buyuk gostererek devlete karsi
gitmeye calismalariyla insanlara daha pismemis meyveyi hatirlatirlar.
Onlarin amaci nedir, ne gibi deyisiklikler yapmak istiyorlar, politik
programlari nedir, su anda nelerer uzerinde calisiyorlar, nasil ciddi
politik yazilari var, eger su anda onlara devleti yonetme hukuku verilirse
basarabilirlermi, bunun icin yetenekli kadrolari hazirmi, gibi yuzlerce
sorularin cogu daha boslukta kalmaktadir.


En buyuk problemlerden biri de halkin su anda demokrasiyi kabul etmesinin
imkansiz oldugudur, cunku bu uluslar butun bir tarihi boyunca daha
demokrasi diyen duzenle karsilasmamislardir. Bundan dolayi simdilik en iyi
secenek oncelikle milletin gozlerini acmaya calismaktir. Eger millet kendi
haklarini istiyebiliyorsa, hic bir dis demokrasinin iceriye import
edilmesine hacet kalmayacak. Bu is ise partilerin omuzune dusecek, yani
bunda onlar sorumludurlar. Partilerin atoritar liderleri kufur edip
durmasindan zerre kadar kar yoktur.
Zannederim ki O.A da yeni bir gelisme baslamak sadece ve sadece oradaki
liderlere kalmaktadir. Belki buna siz de katilirsiniz, cunku baska turlu
care yok. Distan ve icten gelen etkiler belki yararli gelir, mesela Avrupa
ve ABD devletlerinin O.A. liderlerini demokrasilesmeye israr etmeleri,
politik partiler onlarla onlasma yapmaya calismasi ve bu yolla etkilemeleri
mantikli gelebilir. Bence bu is kutuplasmayla, savas cikarmakla, tahdidle
veya embargoyla bitmeyecek, aksine boyle bir hareket durumun daha
kotulesmesine sebep olabilir. Cunku boyle durumlarda sadece millet yumrugun
altinda kalacak, baskalari saraylarinda keyfine devam edecek.

1 Devleti yonetmenleri Mahkemeyi elinda tutuyorlar



2 Parlamento onlarin dediklerinden baskasini yapamazlar



3 Ordunun babasidirlar. Istedikleri sekilde kollanirlar.



4 Istedikleri insani istedikleri kademeye koyabilirler, devlet disi etmek,
hapse atmak cok basittir.



5 Insanlarda siyasi kultur gelismemistir veya engel olinmustur. Siyasetten
bahsetmek hapse atilmakla esanlam haline gelmistir.



6 Devlet politikasina karsi olanlar siki iskence altina alinmistir. Artik
senelerce guclu bir oppozisyon ortaya gelemez. Bu simdiki baskanlarin daha
onlarca sene her istediklerini yapabilirler demektir.



7 Oppozisyon partiler cok zayif, daginik ve intellektuel kuvvetsizdirler.

Bu yaziyi burda yazarken acaba hich dushundunuzmu ki, bu yaziyi okuyan (O.Asyalik) arkadashlar ichinde tyurkiye tarihini az olsada bilenler ola bilir diye? Acaba Cumhuriyet do'neminde sizde aynisimiydi, ya da daha kotumuydu? Bunlari burada yazmakla amaciniz ne sizin?
Ve sonunda da tyurkiyeli "kardeshlere" bedava ogut vereyim: O.A'ya burnunuzu sokmayin, burunsuz kala bilme ihtimali var!
Bir de soracaktim, hele Avrupa Birlig'ine uye ola bildinizmi sizdeki "gelishmish" demokrasiyle? :D

cheers,
mujreem[off]

guest
dogrusun kardes
tabiyki orta asyani picler yonetiyor.
biz orta asyaliklar ne yapabiliriz arkadas?
sizler simdi turkiyede hurriyet icindesiniz ona tessekkur etmeniz gerekiyor.
eger hukumetiniz iyi olmazsa istediginz zaman onu isten atabilirsiniz
ama bizde oyle degil.bizde bir Stalin donemi gibi durum var.
Ozbekistan simdi isgal altinda ve bir Ataturk
gibi adam cikip mucizeler yapmasi gerek.

btw....mujreme dikat etme
o orta asyada bir halfat kurmak istiyor.arab imperializimini
propogandasindan ekmek yemis.
biz pic arablari nasil Osmanli devletini yikitmada sebep
olduklarini iyi biliyoruz.sonra baskenti inglizler elinde olan
"halifat" tan yonetimini Ataturk karsi savasma zorunda
kaldigini da iyi anliyoruz.
simdiki zamanda pic arablar kendi suchlarini gostermemek icin
Ataturki halifati yikitmada suchliyorlar.
allahim nasil halifat kalmistiki o zaman?
Halifat demek guc demek.
ama once arablar yardimi ile yikitilan sonra
sadece resmen kagitta olan ve gercekte baskenti
inglizler elinde diger yarmi yunanlar elinde olan halifat bu halifatmi?
iste Ataturk bu "halifati" yikitmis.
iste Mujreem gibiler arab imperialist propogandasini burada bize yedirmek istiyorlar.

[mujreem]

Mujreem gibiler arab imperialist propogandasini burada bize yedirmek istiyorlar.

Arabskiy imperializm?:shock: :? :shock: :?: :?:
eto vse ravno chto skazat', Chingachkuk konkestador, wuahahahaha :lool:
Charos, welcome back, ti kak vsegda v svoyom repertuare :)
Mogla bi hot' podpisatsya pod soobsheniyami. ;)
Obojayu tebya Charos, haligi bitta gapiz bor ediyu, rosa takrorlashni yahshi kurardiz, nimiydi, fol ochvotganda haligi qimasli kerimidi??????
Qisqasi aniq esimda emasu haligi "krilatiy frazangiz", lekin qattanam mani hizbu tahrirga a'zo qiya qoldingiz shuni tushuna olmayapman. :rolleyes:

cheers,
mujreem

[i am not Charros]

Mujreem i am not Charros.
but i think your are really brainwashed by arab media.
have you ever been to any arabic state?
Most arab itellectuals think onyl ethnic arabs are real moslems and only
arabs can rule all moslem nations.
According to arabic history book they say Ottomans empire was a fake halifat.
because they were turks not arabs.
and they use islam for the achchievment of their imperialistic ambitions.
they have no respect to central asians.they think they civilisized us from nomadic lifestyle.and another redicilious think they think if tiday we were united with arabic countries and arabs ruled us we could left today's dark days.
they hate someone when she/he is saying that ottomans were real khalifat and real moslems.
i spoke with many arab youth they all are brainwashed with anto ottoman and anti turkey propoganda.Mujreem did you know that .Arabs fought agaist ottomans and they were the main case of Ottoman collapse.
after all that they blame Ataturk that he did it.
if you will again to look history you will see that Ottomans already was detroyed and Ataturk had to act aginst his own sultan govreement otherwise that fake "khalifat" could be regained and divided by west.
so it is very funny when today arab intellectuals blame Ataturk for that while their ancestors corparated with Brits.
today all arabic countries carrieng comletly anti turk propoganda they think turks always were face moslems and only arabs are rulers of islamic nations.

[mujreem]

Hi there
Mujreem i am not Charros.Ladno, chert s toboy kto ti, vprincipe eto ne tak uj i vajno.
but i think your are really brainwashed by arab media. Slushay, ti tut voobshe chudesa tvorish, ti v kurse etogo? To ti govorish pro arabskiy imperialism, to tverdish chto ya pod vozdeystviyem arabskih SMI? Nazovi hot’ odnu arabskuyu gazetu ili telekanal kotoriy ti sam znayesh, ya pro takih voobshe ne slihal. (Al-Jazeera ne v schet, do Iraqa nikto I ne znal o sushestvovanii takovoy)
have you ever been to any arabic state?Net poka chto, ne prihodilos’. Moyo schast'ye chto ya tam ne bil, ato ti bi yesho menya v shpionaje v pol'zu arabskih stran obvinil bi. (Hotya etih samih arabskih stran ne umerenno, i vse oni drug drugom ne ladyat)
Most arab itellectuals think onyl ethnic arabs are real moslems and only arabs can rule all moslem nations.Nu a ya toje schitayu chto naibolee sil’naya vera u sredneaziatov, v chastnosti Uzbekov, nu I chto s togo? Kajdiy gorditsya svoyey naciyey. A naschet “rule all Moslem nation” tut ti drug yavno pereborshil, ti sam ponimayesh o chem govorish? Kak mojno upravlyat’ tem chego netu, eti samiye "islam nations" hotyat' togo?
According to arabic history book they say Ottomans empire was a fake halifat because they were turks not arabs.Kakoy privet takoy I otvet uvajayemiy. Ya somnevayus’ chto v vashih knigah istorii vi hot’ kakoye libo uvajeniye okazivayete kakoy libo drugoy nacii krome svoyey.
and they use islam for the achchievment of their imperialistic ambitions.Opyat’ pro kakoy to arabskiy imperialism. Slushay, mojet bit’ ti raskril grandiozniy arabskiy zagovor protiv vsego chelovechestva, I bit’ mojet za eto tebe medal’ v odno mesto prisobachit’? Ti sluchayno ne shizofrennik? Hotya govoryat’ chto sovremennaya medicina tvorit’ chudesa, tak chto budem nadeyatsya chto vse taki tebya ne poteryayem.
they have no respect to central asians.they think they civilisized us from nomadic lifestyleRaz’ve? Yesli ti moy drug ne znayesh to ya tebe podskaju, dlya arabov naibolee uvajayemiye lichnosti eto imam Buhari i imam Tirmizi r.a.a. A dlya mnogih arabov oni namnogo uvajayemiye chem. daje sami imami madhabov. Hotya ti malo chego ot etogo ponimayesh. Ni togo urovnya tvoy intellekt chtobi ponyat' takoye.
and another redicilious think they think if tiday we were united with arabic countries and arabs ruled us we could left today's dark days.Eto to kak vi nam pitayetes’ dokazat’ chto yesli bi mi s vami obyedinilis’, i yesli bi vi diktovali CA stranam kak jit’, to jizn’ bila bi namnogo krasechney blah blah? Poluchayetsya yesli posmotret' so storoni na vashu poziciyu to znachit' vse taki "redicilios" da? :D
]they hate someone when she/he is saying that ottomans were real khalifat and real moslems.A kogda tebe napominat’ pro to kak Timur razbil Bayazida I ves’ ego gorem otimel ti budesh radovat’sya etomu? Ponyatno delo, ushemleno nacional’naya gordost’. Vot Persi nikak ne lyubyat’ arabov za to chto oni razrushili ih nepobedimuyu imperiyu, toje samoye po otnosheniyu k turcii so storoni grecii. Mojno prodoljat’ beskonechno.
i spoke with many arab youth they all are brainwashed with anto ottoman and anti turkey propoganda.Mujreem did you know that.I spoke with many Turkish youth, they all are brainwashed with anti "all neighbour nation" propoganda. I am not Charros, did you know that?
Arabs fought agaist ottomansarabs were manipulated as all other nations who fought against ottoman, and this is the fault of ottoman empire.
and they were the main case of Ottoman collapse.taaak, tak tak tak,
a teper’ chut’ nije posmotrim:
after all that they blame Ataturk that he did it. if you will again to look history you will see that Ottomans already was destroyed
no comments koroche :D

and Ataturk had to act aginst his own sultan govreement otherwise that fake "khalifat" could be regained and divided by west.
so it is very funny when today arab intellectuals blame Ataturk for that while their ancestors corparated with Brits.Ataturk eto otdel’naya tema.

Be well,
Mujreem.

mujreem,
watch forest not trees. You do not need to comment bullshit all the time.
Keep calm,
Regards

[FREEMAN]

COK ENTERESAN BU FORUMUN UYELERI!
ADAM ORTA ASYANIN SORUNLARINDAN BAHSEDIYOR SIZ ISE BURDA BIR BIRINIZI TARTISIYORSUNUZ. KONUDAN SAPMAYA BIR BAKARMISINIZ!
NEDEN HEP SIZLER BOYLESINIZ. NEDEN BIR KONU UZERINDE NORMAL BIR SEKILDE MULAHAZA EDEMEZSINIZ? NEDEN BIR BIRINIZI ASAGILAYIP BASKALIRINI BU TUR BASIT VE VASAT SEYLERLE MESGUL EDIYORSUNUZ.
BU BENCE KULTUR SORUNU VEYA YETISME TARZINA BAGLI BIR SEY OLMALI.YADA YAS FARKI OLABILIR.
AKEDEMIK SEVIYEDE YAZILAR YAZMASINI ,YAZAMAZSAK DA OKUMASINI VE DUSUNMESINI BILELIM ARKADASLAR!
BU FORUMD AYAZILAN HER SEYIN SONU BOYLE IKILI VEYA GRUPLU HALDE BIRINE KONU DISI YANI SAHSI ATISMALARLA BITIYOR.
ALLAH ASKINA YAZAMAYANLAR LUTFEN YAZMASIN YADA MODERATORUN KONTROLUNDEN GECEN YAZILAR FORUMDA YAYINLANSIN.
AYRICA TURKIYELILERE ORTA ASYADAKI SORUNLARI KONUSMASINA KIM YASAK GETIRDI? BU NE BICIM ZIHNIYET.
TUM DUNYADAKI SORUNLAR HEPIMIZIN SORUNUDUR.
HEP BIRLIKTE GUZEL BIR DUNYA ICIN EL ELE OLALIM...

[mujreem]

FREEMAN, rosa aqlli gaplar aytibsan zakovatingga tasanno, endi diqqat bilan quloq solgin. Gap egasini topadi deganlaridek, men juda yahshi tushundaim sening aytganlaringni, va quyidagi savollarimga javob bera olasanmi?
1) Ma'lumoting uchun bu o'zbek forumu, va bu forumda nega endi o'zbek tilida yozmasdan turk tilida yozayapsan, ahir har qalay ko'proq menga hitob qilayapsan to'g'rimi? Turklar bo'lsa kerak bo'lganida tushunib olaveradi, agar tushunmaydigan bo'lsa balo bormi bu yerga kirib, to'g'rimi?
2) Faraz qilgin men turklarning forumiga borib, biror provakacion maqolani eng birinchi sahifasiga joylashtirib, tag'in turk tilada ham emas balkim boshqa tilda joylashtirib (masalan Nemis, yoki Ingliz) mana sizlar shunaqa qilgansizlar, yoki shunaqa qilib yotibsizlar deb qo'yganimda, ularning forumidagilarning muomalasi ajabo qandoq bo'lardi? Hali ham bu yerda hech kim qo'pol muomala qilgani yo'q hozircha bir biriga, to'g'rimi?
3) Aytibsanki kim ta'qiqlabdi ularga bizlarning muammolarimizni bahslashishni deb. Gaping to'g'ri, hamma istagan masalasini istagan odam bilan bahslashish huquqiga ega, endi aytgin menga, O'zbek forumiga kelib, turk tilida bu maqolani bu yerga qo'yishdan maqsad nima o'zi? Kimga kerak shu? Shunchalik hohlar ekan borib o'zlarining forumlarida bahslasha verishsin, bizlarning asabimizga tegish shunchalik zarurmidi?

O'zi shunday ham hammamiz bilamiz muammolarimizni, bir shu "turk qardosh"larning bizlarning kamchiliklarimizni, bizning yuzimizga solmaganligi yetmay turuvdi.

Va yana bir narsa, iloji bo'lsa bosh harflar bilan yozmasang, bu huddi baqirib gapirganga o'hshaydi. Bu yerdagilar hech kim kar (ko'r) emas, tushunaveramiz kichik harflar bilan gapirganingda ham.

mujreem,
wa'assalam

[Royal]

Eeee, yana eski hommom osha eski togora,

Turk - turk emas balkim Turkistonlidir , bunga kim qarshi bolsa etsin oz qarshiligini isbotlab.....

Turk va/yoki Turkiya buyukdir deganda Turkiston- Buyuk Turon buyukdir deb tushunish kerak albatta.

1) Ma'lumoting uchun bu o'zbek forumu, va bu forumda nega endi o'zbek tilida yozmasdan turk tilida yozayapsan, ahir har qalay ko'proq menga hitob qilayapsan to'g'rimi? Turklar bo'lsa kerak bo'lganida tushunib olaveradi, agar tushunmaydigan bo'lsa balo bormi bu yerga kirib, to'g'rimi?

birinchidan muJremm bu forum hamma uchun balo bormi yoqmi bu uzerlarning ozini ishi hohlasa kirsin hohlasa yoq.forumni hech qayerida bu yerga faqat ozbeklar kirsin dep yozilmagan.


2) Faraz qilgin men turklarning forumiga borib, biror provakacion maqolani eng birinchi sahifasiga joylashtirib, tag'in turk tilada ham emas balkim boshqa tilda joylashtirib (masalan Nemis, yoki Ingliz) mana sizlar shunaqa qilgansizlar, yoki shunaqa qilib yotibsizlar deb qo'yganimda, ularning forumidagilarning muomalasi ajabo qandoq bo'lardi? Hali ham bu yerda hech kim qo'pol muomala qilgani yo'q hozircha bir biriga, to'g'rimi?

hech kimga senga tosiq qoyayotgani yoq istaganincha turk forumlariga borib hohlaganincha hozirgi turkiya muammolari haqida topiklar ochishin mumkin agar turk forumlariga borsan armanlar,arablar,eronliklar,yunonlar shungdogam yetrali topiklar ochib tashlashgan hech kim ularni u yerdan haydayagani yoq. aa etgandey u yerda faqat turkiyaliklar emas balkiim orta oiyoliklar haqida ham bir tofa topiklar bor manam hayronman nimiaga turk forumlarida bizlar haqimizda topiklar ochishadiyu keyin turklar bizni ornimizga javob berishadi?qanaqadur tshunarsiz

3) Aytibsanki kim ta'qiqlabdi ularga bizlarning muammolarimizni bahslashishni deb. Gaping to'g'ri, hamma istagan masalasini istagan odam bilan bahslashish huquqiga ega, endi aytgin menga, O'zbek forumiga kelib, turk tilida bu maqolani bu yerga qo'yishdan maqsad nima o'zi? Kimga kerak shu?
obbooo shunchalik "asabga teguvchi" bolsa kirma bu topikka. endi janob Mujreemni asablariga tegarkan dep bu yerda odam hohlagan topigini ocholmaydimi?a endi ozbek tilini bilmasdur iglizchasi unchalikmasdur qarasa bu yerda mujremga ohshagan turk tilini tshunadigalar kop oshaning uchun turk tilida yozib qoygandur.

Shunchalik hohlar ekan borib o'zlarining forumlarida bahslasha verishsin, bizlarning asabimizga tegish shunchalik zarurmidi?

qattan bilasan balkim ozbekistonliklarni ozi bilan suhbatlashmoqchi bolgandir.

asabimizga tegish shunchalik zarurmidi?

poor Mujreem......you are not seriuos.
:idea: btw :idea: ...if don not like this thread then just ignore it and don not put your nose over here my persian friend.

Hi there
Mujreem i am not Charros.Ladno, chert s toboy kto ti, vprincipe eto ne tak uj i vajno.
but i think your are really brainwashed by arab media. Slushay, ti tut voobshe chudesa tvorish, ti v kurse etogo? To ti govorish pro arabskiy imperialism, to tverdish chto ya pod vozdeystviyem arabskih SMI? Nazovi hot’ odnu arabskuyu gazetu ili telekanal kotoriy ti sam znayesh, ya pro takih voobshe ne slihal. (Al-Jazeera ne v schet, do Iraqa nikto I ne znal o sushestvovanii takovoy)
have you ever been to any arabic state?Net poka chto, ne prihodilos’. Moyo schast'ye chto ya tam ne bil, ato ti bi yesho menya v shpionaje v pol'zu arabskih stran obvinil bi. (Hotya etih samih arabskih stran ne umerenno, i vse oni drug drugom ne ladyat)
Most arab itellectuals think onyl ethnic arabs are real moslems and only arabs can rule all moslem nations.Nu a ya toje schitayu chto naibolee sil’naya vera u sredneaziatov, v chastnosti Uzbekov, nu I chto s togo? Kajdiy gorditsya svoyey naciyey. A naschet “rule all Moslem nation” tut ti drug yavno pereborshil, ti sam ponimayesh o chem govorish? Kak mojno upravlyat’ tem chego netu, eti samiye "islam nations" hotyat' togo?
According to arabic history book they say Ottomans empire was a fake halifat because they were turks not arabs.Kakoy privet takoy I otvet uvajayemiy. Ya somnevayus’ chto v vashih knigah istorii vi hot’ kakoye libo uvajeniye okazivayete kakoy libo drugoy nacii krome svoyey.
and they use islam for the achchievment of their imperialistic ambitions.Opyat’ pro kakoy to arabskiy imperialism. Slushay, mojet bit’ ti raskril grandiozniy arabskiy zagovor protiv vsego chelovechestva, I bit’ mojet za eto tebe medal’ v odno mesto prisobachit’? Ti sluchayno ne shizofrennik? Hotya govoryat’ chto sovremennaya medicina tvorit’ chudesa, tak chto budem nadeyatsya chto vse taki tebya ne poteryayem.
they have no respect to central asians.they think they civilisized us from nomadic lifestyleRaz’ve? Yesli ti moy drug ne znayesh to ya tebe podskaju, dlya arabov naibolee uvajayemiye lichnosti eto imam Buhari i imam Tirmizi r.a.a. A dlya mnogih arabov oni namnogo uvajayemiye chem. daje sami imami madhabov. Hotya ti malo chego ot etogo ponimayesh. Ni togo urovnya tvoy intellekt chtobi ponyat' takoye.
and another redicilious think they think if tiday we were united with arabic countries and arabs ruled us we could left today's dark days.Eto to kak vi nam pitayetes’ dokazat’ chto yesli bi mi s vami obyedinilis’, i yesli bi vi diktovali CA stranam kak jit’, to jizn’ bila bi namnogo krasechney blah blah? Poluchayetsya yesli posmotret' so storoni na vashu poziciyu to znachit' vse taki "redicilios" da? :D
]they hate someone when she/he is saying that ottomans were real khalifat and real moslems.A kogda tebe napominat’ pro to kak Timur razbil Bayazida I ves’ ego gorem otimel ti budesh radovat’sya etomu? Ponyatno delo, ushemleno nacional’naya gordost’. Vot Persi nikak ne lyubyat’ arabov za to chto oni razrushili ih nepobedimuyu imperiyu, toje samoye po otnosheniyu k turcii so storoni grecii. Mojno prodoljat’ beskonechno.
i spoke with many arab youth they all are brainwashed with anto ottoman and anti turkey propoganda.Mujreem did you know that.I spoke with many Turkish youth, they all are brainwashed with anti "all neighbour nation" propoganda. I am not Charros, did you know that?
Arabs fought agaist ottomansarabs were manipulated as all other nations who fought against ottoman, and this is the fault of ottoman empire.
and they were the main case of Ottoman collapse.taaak, tak tak tak,
a teper’ chut’ nije posmotrim:
after all that they blame Ataturk that he did it. if you will again to look history you will see that Ottomans already was destroyed
no comments koroche :D

and Ataturk had to act aginst his own sultan govreement otherwise that fake "khalifat" could be regained and divided by west.
so it is very funny when today arab intellectuals blame Ataturk for that while their ancestors corparated with Brits.Ataturk eto otdel’naya tema.

Be well,
Mujreem.


Mujreem
with the respect that you have not understand me.
you are right "kakoy privet takoy i otvet"
no problemo v tom shto "privet" snachla ishodit ot arabov ne ot turkov.
According to your post i can make a desision about you
you really was not in any arabic state and you really do not know
anything about them.you even read nothing ar never had discussians
with arabs.
you say they respect Bukhari,Termizi......probably and Sultan Fatih Mehmed etc.
heh ... that times passed my friend.
maybe you know some arabs who really proud with all of this.
but today arabic dictatorship rejims and kingdoms have fanatic pan-arabic-nationalistic

aproaches rather than islamic.
maybe pan turkic propoganda seems disgusting to you
but pan arabism is more redicilious and unexceptable.
it is wrong to use Islam for nationalistic ideas,but unfortunatly
today arabs had forgotten that "arabni ajamdan,ajamni arabdan farqi yoq"
it is wrong to build any nasionalistic idealoji for the name of Islam.
Islam for all not only for arabs.if Mohammed (sav) was an arab
it does not make arabic race more inferior than others,
i have talked with many youth from Egypet,Saudi Arabia,
Lebonon....they all claim about iferioraty of arabic race than others just
because of Mohammad (sav) belonged to arab nationality,
hey what the hell happinig with arabs today?
why they forget about real Islam.the islam which considers
all nationalities as equal?
all moslems except arabs are proud of Sultan Fatih Mahmed today.
they even hate turks that Turks took Byzantium instead of Arabs.
you see today arabic propganda completly based on hatred toward turks.
and of course all of this disgusting turks so regardingto this
turkey has such kind foreign polcy toward arabs.
Turkish history condemns arabs from the day when they turned against Ottomans
to help Brits.you know what happened in arabic states during english colonalization,
plan of state Israil was set up by Brits after Ottoman pull out from this region,arabic
world was divided
to small pieces of independent countries.why they seperate Al - Kuweit from Iraq?
homosexsualty,alhocols, and other disgusting things were widely spreaded in arabic world.
you spoke about Greeks
Greek must thank Ottomans for that they are still Orthodox today.
Otherwise they could face to Catolization from Latin States of western europe.
Turkish history is not so against againt Arabs as Arabs have.
turks admit about greatness of arabic past empire and role of arabic pie of
human civilizatin,and many achievments of arabs.
but Arabs don not admit anything about turkey and its past.
or show me any arabic state who feel solidarity with Turk history?
another one of the main cases of today's hatred of turks toward arabs
is result of arabic anti Ataturk propoganda.
They surely blaming Attaturk for abolishing Khalifat,
but does it seem redicilious to you?
first that Khalifat was collpapsed with the help arabs themselves.
after that when Istanbul(heart of Khalifat) and Anotila itself was under occupation
(it has just oficially had name "Khalifat").so it was unlogical to wait sometihng from
sultan govrement and military men by the leadership of Mustafa Kemal
had to act somehow so they take govrement from Sultan first then started to fight against

invadors.
and you see any abolishing of khalifat by Attaurk here?
how do you think Anatolia would look like wothout Ataturk today?(can you answer to this

question?)
but nowadays arabic propganda don't realize its own faults of Ottoman collapse
secondly countinously blinldy blaming Atarurk for all this.as you know
to oppose Atarturk personality is equal to oppose all Turkey.

Arabic Imperialism is not something as sending tanks to over all of the world
to set up a fifth reich or to bomb cities with Tomahavks fired from
war plane carriers,
but it something as a "plolzuchiy" slowly and quitly but effectiv.
and it has strong weapon.it is Islam.
Mujreem you should communicate with arabs to understand all of this.

btw..to shto proizoshlo mejdu Tamerlanom i Bayazitom ne imeyet nichego obshego
k sovremennoy Turetskoy politike toward arabic world.
Central Asia unlike arabs helped to Turkey with its war of Independence although it was under

Tsar Russian control.Have you ever heard about financal aids sent to Turkey by central asians?

btw2...i still have not understand your hatred toward Otomans and modern Turkey.
and why you like to lick arabic ass?why don not you condemn Arabic policy towar tukey and its

history.and why don not you condemn arabic racism which is using Islam for its achievments?

[Turkiy]

Royal, Buncha sasu burunga uhshab hamma erga burningni tiqurasan ...?

[mujreem]

According to your post i can make a desision about you. you really was not in any arabic state and you really do not know
anything about them.you even read nothing ar never had discussians
with arabs.
Ochig'ini aytadigan bo'lsam men o'zim arabman, ya'ni etnik kelib chiqishim arablarga borib taqaladi. Balkim bu gaplarimdan keyin qaytaga yanada kuchliroq reakciya ko'rsatarsizlar menga, lekin arablar haqida sizlardan oz bilaman deb o'ylamayman. Keyinchalik qolganiga ham javob berishga harakat qilaman. Agar vaqt topa olsam.
mujreem,
wa'assalam

mujreem

Ochig'ini aytadigan bo'lsam men o'zim arabman,

aha hammasi tshunarli taksir...

Ben araniza yeni katilan bir kardesim
Turk Turkle kapisatsagina bu ulusu iyi yetistirip, Buyuk Turkistanimizi kuralim

[Bespredel]

Merhaba lo,

eeee amina koyayim sizin forumu.....hep siyasietten konushuyorsunuz....biri arap imperialismi diyor..bir Ottoman biri ne bileyim ne üchkaatchilik ediyor.
burada hep konushma bla blba bla

[G]

Dog'ru ama sen ne haqqinda qonushmayi istiyorsun