Christians in Uzbekistan

[xotin]

I would like to know if any of you know about the Christian movement (though small) in Uzbekistan. I am not affliated with any of those groups. But I have met some former missionaries in the USA and was a little confused. Do you like Christian missionaries in your country? PLEASE only honest answers. I am not part of their group so you won't offend me. I really want the Muslim point of view. Thank you

[ББ]

No. I do not like Christian missionaries in my country. As much as I believe in freedom of religion I don't think the missionaries should be allowed.

This outright negative attitude comes from my personal experience. I was literally lured into a meeting with bunch of missionaries by being misinformed that the primary goal was to help practice English. Although I was 16 and less religious, I got really pissed. I regreted so much that I was not informed enough about Islam to form a theological discussion. I have a friend who is a genius (valdictorian of a US high-school, and of the best university in Tashkent, and of the top-three law school in the US). He was present in the meeting as well. Although he is an atheist, he made some really nice arguments both about Christianity and Islam. The 4 missionaires were not even prepared to have a good discussion about their own religion. What can I say?

Secondly, in Uzbekistan one is not allowed to preach Islam these days. I think the playing ground should be the same for all. If the reps of other religions are not allowed to preach, neither should the missionaires. It's just not fair.

Last but not least, even in traditionally Christian countries there are MANY folks who might need the guidance. Why don't they spread the word in the US, or the UK, or Europe? Do they think the people of the latter countries are in perfect state? or maybe they think it is hopless to preach in these countries? They should never dispair, shoud they?

Why come to a foreign country when there is a problem in our own? Or do they consider us (foreigners) as barbarians? Or are they going for easy converts? Some sort of low hanging fruit?

Xotin, you asked for honesty, and those were my honest thoughts.
ББ

______________________
Мы мирные люди, но наш бронепоезд, стоит на запасном пути.

[moslem]

hOTIN I DO NOT LIKE MISSIONERS BECAUSE THEY IN EVETU ATTEMPT ARE TRYING TO CONVERT ME.
believe in me it seems sooooo redicilous when people come to you and start to talk about Jesus that he saved me from hell and he is son of god bluh bluh bluh ...
if i was a president i woul forbid misionary activities in uzbekistan because as far as i have seen all uzbek converts to cristianity AUTOMATICALY BECOMING ANTI-ISLAM!but believe born cristians(russians and others) in uzbekistan do not feel any hatred toward islam as uzbek converts do.
first i did not understand why they becoming so anti - islam but then when i started to comunicate with american missioners in Tashkent i finally got that they all are big anti-islam bigots who are teaching not loving Jesus but hating Islam as much as you can do.
i do not think uzbek nation will have an advantage from this.it is very dengerous it is seperating out nation to different groups.so all this missionary task in uzbekistan must be forbided.

[xotin]

Because those Christian missionaries preach hatred towards those who are different. The reason why I am asking is because I do not agree with their religion, and I am in America where choice of religion is free. But they say they hate me and call me a heathen and I believe in Jesus! They hate all those who are different. I learned this from their websites and from the actual people here.

Those who trully believe in Jesus are Muslims! With the "help" of Jews Christians just got his message wrong. All those who trully believe in Jesus must convert to Islam.

[royal1]

Yes, Freedom of religion was exist in our country for the centuries or even more.....

But only other religion believers had problem with those times, becouse they start prieching they religion to locals who is muslims and in muslim country and rooled by islamic law.

So has meening of the question "freedom of religion" as: Believing to other religion freely in different country with different religion ?

or

Believing / Preaching and Missioning the they religion to locals who have different religion and accordingly they would have problems with locals and/or with local government, that I do not think so called or considered as freedom of religion.....

[royal1]

You may stipulate Your question to the forum :

Having and believing to differen religion in our country ?
or
Be preaching and missioning other religion in our country ?

I think has big difference !

From the US Constitution, Amendment 1:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761569008&pn=4&s=78#s78)

You can interpret that as you wish. I think as long as the missionaries are legally preaching then it is fine. All you have to do is walk away from them. Some countries give special religion visas for missionaries. But if they are breaking the law then they do not even have the right to be there and should not preach at all. That is my opinion however.

[xotin]

is it possible to be muslim and believe in democracy?

is it possible to be muslim and believe in democracy?

what kind of Democracy ?
when we say democracy we mean different meanings.
what is now currently practised in west is not democracy but anarhi.

is it possible to be muslim and believe in democracy?
of course it is possible.
but it is not possible to be a moslem and anarkhist at the same time.

[Royal]

is it possible to be muslim and believe in democracy?

Xotin
(sound's funny) (jke)

Islam is most demorkratik religion as we know, it's doesn't discriminate and teaches to respect and to displine.

Islam teaches that person believes to GOD and worshipes to GOD and same time must obey the rules of that territories or government where that person resides, doesn't matter that government has under influence of any other religion than islam, becouse islam is everyones heart and constitution of that government is controls outside.

Waiting to know what You think ?

[Royal]

Because those Christian missionaries preach hatred towards those who are different. The reason why I am asking is because I do not agree with their religion, and I am in America where choice of religion is free. But they say they hate me and call me a heathen and I believe in Jesus! They hate all those who are different. I learned this from their websites and from the actual people here.

Jesus never say he is a LORD, he say believe to the GOD. and Jesus deliver the word of GOD in BIBLE, common people say he's a LORD and catolik church , think that was not full verion of it and they created NEW additional version to the BIBLE, here the question if first version of BIBLE was words of GOD and second additional version of BIBLE who's words are ???!!! Common people...??? Have a some common sence.....

Do You ever heard of 3 letters of twin girls from Village of Hadicha in Spain... they 2 letters been revealed by Vatikan but 3rd one is still in under the lock....lots of stories or talkings about this 3rd letter, but pope Poul say not this time.....

Please, accept my appologies if am i offend You with my posting.

with regards

Royal

[xotin]

"they created NEW additional version to the BIBLE"

Do you mean the New Testament? I was confused by your reply.

I really loved someone's answer which stated that an Muslim must obey the laws of the land and that a true Moslem cannot believe in anarchy. This is exactly what I believe. I believe that there must be law, that God is a God of law and order.

Because those Christian missionaries preach hatred towards those who are different. The reason why I am asking is because I do not agree with their religion, and I am in America where choice of religion is free. But they say they hate me and call me a heathen and I believe in Jesus! They hate all those who are different. I learned this from their websites and from the actual people here.

Jesus never say he is a LORD, he say believe to the GOD. and Jesus deliver the word of GOD in BIBLE, common people say he's a LORD and catolik church , think that was not full verion of it and they created NEW additional version to the BIBLE, here the question if first version of BIBLE was words of GOD and second additional version of BIBLE who's words are ???!!! Common people...??? Have a some common sence.....

Do You ever heard of 3 letters of twin girls from Village of Hadicha in Spain... they 2 letters been revealed by Vatikan but 3rd one is still in under the lock....lots of stories or talkings about this 3rd letter, but pope Poul say not this time.....

Please, accept my appologies if am i offend You with my posting.

with regards

Royal
sorry i didnt understand what you meant, but it seems very interesting. Would you make it clear, and write in Russian or Uzbek?
THanks.

[xotin]

No. I do not like Christian missionaries in my country. As much as I believe in freedom of religion I don't think the missionaries should be allowed. (they actually aren't, hence the "English lessons")

This outright negative attitude comes from my personal experience. I was literally lured into a meeting with bunch of missionaries by being misinformed that the primary goal was to help practice English. Although I was 16 and less religious, I got really pissed. I regreted so much that I was not informed enough about Islam to form a theological discussion. I have a friend who is a genius (valdictorian of a US high-school, and of the best university in Tashkent, and of the top-three law school in the US). He was present in the meeting as well. Although he is an atheist, he made some really nice arguments both about Christianity and Islam. The 4 missionaires were not even prepared to have a good discussion about their own religion. What can I say? (Whenever I ask "what do you believe?" I never get a straight answer either)

Secondly, in Uzbekistan one is not allowed to preach Islam these days. I think the playing ground should be the same for all. If the reps of other religions are not allowed to preach, neither should the missionaires. It's just not fair.

Last but not least, even in traditionally Christian countries there are MANY folks who might need the guidance. Why don't they spread the word in the US, or the UK, or Europe? Do they think the people of the latter countries are in perfect state? or maybe they think it is hopless to preach in these countries? They should never dispair, shoud they?

Why come to a foreign country when there is a problem in our own? Or do they consider us (foreigners) as barbarians? Or are they going for easy converts? Some sort of low hanging fruit? (Have you heard of White Man's burden?)

Xotin, you asked for honesty, and those were my honest thoughts.
Б
Please, I am not advocating anti Christianity. I am very much pro-Christianity. It is just recently I have been attacked by people of a certain organization preaching in UZbekistan and was wondering if I was the only person with a negative attitude towards them. I was tricked when I went to a "weekend for married couples" They told me to repeat this sentence then they said "You are part of our church now!" without even asking if I wanted to convert. This weekend getaway was sponsered by the same organization which sends certain missionaries into Uzbekistan (not all of them) They do not represent all Christians. Please understand this. There are many Christians who preach peace and love and to focus on the Truths people share rather than their differences.

[mujreem]

Please, I am not advocating anti Christianity. I am very much pro-Christianity. It is just recently I have been attacked by people of a certain organization preaching in UZbekistan and was wondering if I was the only person with a negative attitude towards them. I was tricked when I went to a "weekend for married couples" They told me to repeat this sentence then they said "You are part of our church now!" without even asking if I wanted to convert. This weekend getaway was sponsered by the same organization which sends certain missionaries into Uzbekistan (not all of them) They do not represent all Christians. Please understand this. There are many Christians who preach peace and love and to focus on the Truths people share rather than their differences.
Assalamu Alaikum

Have a look, somethin like this was already discussed in our forum.
http://www.forum.uz/viewtopic.php?p=110196#110196

Peace,
mujreem.
wa'assalam

They told me to repeat this sentence then they said "You are part of our church now!" without even asking if I wanted to convert


you are exactly right !!!
that is the way how missionares act...
they even do not ask what the reliagon you belong to
and talking to you as you are one of them.
Many of them even knew i was a moslem.
and many times they said "hey brother let us pray together
to our Lord Jesus".And they knew that i was a moslem.
well i never say to non moslem "let us pray together to our god Allah together my brother"
it may descriminate him/her against his/her religion.

those missionary methods are practised and tested for a long time and maybe it works effective.

btw...
hotin did you know that every year approxamatly 20.000 - 30.000 no moslem americans(most cristians) converting to Islam and most high rate was after september 11.
so there are alot of work for american missionaries in their own home :P :P :P

[ББ]

(Have you heard of White Man's burden?)

Xotin,

i recall hearing about "white man's burden" but I forgot what it was. can you please remind me?

thanks,
ББ

It was a philosophy in the 19th century and fueled European Imperialism.

The belief was that those of the "darker races" were uncivilized and irrational and we needed to spread our rational civilized ways to them in order to "save" them from their wild ways. Read "Heart of Darkness". The novel's theme is the White man's burden. There is another novel called "hawaii" which talks about American missionaries refusing to wear native clothing and stubbornly wear their wool clothes despite the tropical climate. So there you have the "white man's burden", from two different viewpoints. I heard a converted Uzbek protestant exclaim when I served dinner on the floor "oh, that is how Muslims eat!!" When I explained that is how Asians eat as well he became silent. Proof that the White man's burden may still be in many Christians minds, though it IS changing.

[MUHLIS]

"Xotin",

Honestly to say, I DO LOT LIKE ANY MISSIONARIES IN UZBEKISTAN!!!
Look what they have done in Kirgizstan and Kazahstan!!!

First of all, what do you understand under "religion"??? Well, I think it is about person's soul and desire to have some moral belonging to the something that is different than people.
Every person has the right to choose its own religion. But how??? That is the trick. "christian missionaries" are enemies of any country or nation where they are acting. Allowing these Charlatans do whatever they want IS NOT A FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!!
"missionaries"....what is their mission??? Buying people's belief for money??? Is that what "The Lord" (astagfurillah) teaches them???

They seek for physically, ecinomically and socially disatvantaged people, and then simply BUY them in order to convert into christianity or "indroduce to the lord" (astagfirullah) by using their material superiority over poor Uzbekistanis.
I have been in various web sites of these "missionaries" and quite familiar with their "mission".

I HATE THEM!!! I TRUELY HATE THEM AND WHAT THEY DO!!! I HATE ALL THOSE WHO FUND THEM TOO!!! I HATE BUSH, BECAUSE IS THE RELIGIOUS FANATIC NOT A DEMOCRAT!!!

IF THAT IS WHAT YOU CALL "RELIGOUS FREEDOM" YOU NEVER GET IT IN UZBEKISTAN!!!

If you were not under protection of Uzbek and International law, I would have cut your throat myself, with my own hands, before you decieve and convert (therefore burning his/her AHIRAT) of another poor muslim with your evil power!!!!

FREEDOM OF RELIGION=FREEDOM FROM EVIL AND DIRTY MISSIONARIES!!!!

xotin,
Do you like Christian missionaries in your country?

Take a look at the factbook about Uzbekistan in CIA's homepage. You can find that the majority of people are Muslims. So, what's the point of Christian missionaries coming to Uzbekistan or any other NIS countries?
Are Muslim missionaries welcome in the US?

[spoon]

The above message was mine. :)

[-JUST-]

I've known quite a few missionaries personally, and they are very kind and generous people. This is what draw me to them in the first place, but I was disgusted when I found out their hidden motives, i.e. to have me converted to Christiany. I'm ok with missionaries being in Uzbekistan, because muslims can propagate Islam in the USA (where most of the evangelical missionaries are from).

But, I am staunchly against their methodology and tactics, which is based on taking advantage of ignorance and poor economic condition of muslim people. It doesn't take a genious to figure it out that if you give money to the needy and tell sth to an ignorant the chances of him/her accepting it willingly are higher. That's what missionaries are doing, because in the USA where the most people have the basic necessities of life and don't depend on help of missionaries , the chance of having converts is minimal. Thus, the missionaries flock to countries which are firstly economically empoverished and secondly whose population lacks knowledge of their own faith. (i.e former Central Asian countries )

I don't and can't blame missionaries for this, they are angry because Islam is propagating fast in the West and with no tricks but by challenging intellectually. I wouldn't mind if christian missionaries would use the same methodology, i.e. by intellectually challenging in open without using money to allure financially needy to become christians.

And lastly, I think it's time muslims learn more about their own faith and live up to their values, rather than paying a mere "lip-service" to their Faith. People used to come to Islam seeing the behaviour of muslims, without even speaking a word. Now we can get a sense of where we stand and how much we ought to do, rather than complaining about missionaries. They existed and will exist.

Peace to y'all,
JUST

[G]

The missioners want to destroy our country from inside that is their real mission

[tony]

As a sincere Christian, I too am against the tactic of luring people with money to change their religion. I know that there are many professing christians who do just this to make themselves look good. But I think there is a point that should be clarified:

It is part of the christian faith to care for the poor and afflicted, I worry that sometimes what is truly meant as good intentions by we christains is mis-interpreted by the Umma (muslim community) as "manufacturing kufir". Again, I am the first to admit that there are many "christians" who do prey on the less fortunate and encourage them to change their religion during a time of weakness as opposed to taking care of needs regardless of whether or not people convert.

However, I'm concerned that if the muslim community considers all christians who attempt to do good things as having such tactics there will be a greater divide and less room for dialogue. To me this is much like the christians in america who believe all muslims are terrorist--in the same way people who claim to be muslims and are terrorist don't represent the most muslims...people who claim to be christians and pay people to convert don't represent the whole of christendom....