Теория: Причина кризиса мусульман - многоженство !

[ББ]

Уважаемые форумчане!

Мой друг (не мусульманин) сегодня преподнес теорию, которую он где-то вычитал. Она состояла в том, что причина всего плохого в текущем мусульманском обществе это многоженство.

Логика такая: у мусульманина много жен. значит много детей. правила наследства, хоть и приведены, но не работают четко. Жёны борются между собой за звание любимой и за названия своих потомков наследниками. Дети, в еще более худшей ситуации, борются между собой с раннего возраста. Соответственно они вырастают недоверчивыми и каждый раз пытаются доказать, что он лучше чем другие.

Когда запад перешел восток по развитию, этих людей это задевает. Они злятся, что ничего не могут сделать. Выход - насилие и т.п.

Это теория мне совсем не нравится. Она упрощена и подходит ко всему однобоко. Как я понял, её (теорию) развил еврей.

Но я ХОТЕЛ БЫ УЗНАТЬ ВАШЕ МНЕНИЕ.
Спасибо!
ББ

[royal1]

Ne a ! Eto ne teoriya a ih hoteniya chto-bi u musulman ne bilo mnogo jeney i detey sotvetsvenno i ih bilo bi menshe ! i Vsyo.

BB
problem musulman eto spirtiniye napitki,amhonalar,qimorbozlik...
va birqancha narsalar bizni botqoqlikga tushurib qoygan kophotinlikni bunga aloqasi yoq
chunki 99% musulmonda faqat bitta hotin..

esho bb

Логика такая: у мусульманина много жен. значит много детей. правила наследства, хоть и приведены, но не работают четко. Жёны борются между собой за звание любимой и за названия своих потомков наследниками. Дети, в еще более худшей ситуации, борются между собой с раннего возраста. Соответственно они вырастают недоверчивыми и каждый раз пытаются доказать, что он лучше чем другие.

LOL !!!!!!

что причина всего плохого в текущем мусульманском обществе это

eto izrail v blijnom vostoke

[Royal]

Narodnosti v nashem vere , estli schitat tak: Ili slishkom umnie i hitrie ili slishkom tupie. I drugie narodi v drugih religiyah kopayutsya pod silnim narodamiv nashem reiligie i upravlyayut nad tupimi narodami.....

Tolko Bez obidi .

Dear BB.

Your friend's theory about the crisis in Islamic world is very stupid and childish ( no offence intended, but as far as i know it is not your theory and you are not gonna believe it you will not be hurt). Let's look at the question logically.
Women never outnumbered men twice in the history, even in the war times, because not only men die in the wars. The maximum percentage of the men who might (or may) have two or more wives is about 5 percent, not more. But this is the maximum percentage which could be. In the real life, as somebody said above 99% of the men were only with one wife. The rubbish which your friend told you is only the next attempt to mock the muslims and Islam. So don't pay attention to everything which people say. Just think logically and learn more about your religion. Only then, hopefully, everything becomes clear and understandable for your.
However, the real reason for the crisis in the Islamic world, as i think, is getting far away from what Islam stands for, and sacrifying our religion for the worldly wealth and our desires.

And Allah knows the best.

[spoon]

To all,
None of your comments answered ББ's question about the crisis in Islamic world. Why are there wars and conflicts involved around this religion? Why do we fight with each other? What can't we divide amount ourselves?
Although, I am a muslim myself and have faith in Islam, I don't hesitate to ask questions like that.

[royal1]

Aleek

That bb's question was regarding the having more that one wife of the muslim men.

How that could effect to entire nation or religion ?

As above Guest: 6aec8aef respectivly mentioned regarding that.
Do all men in muslim religion has more than one wife ?
Becouse , as our religion teaches that just marrying to 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife
must be fullfilled with so many own responcibilities otherwise that would be
as sin.

Even for example You may put in this forum asking forum members for : Anyone would like to have , Defenetly have 2nd , 3rd or 4th wife. Without even having 1 at this moment, they all will say for the joke.....

It's another issue that having more than one wife effecting to muslims or islamic society I don't think so.....that is equal to saying Titianik been by jews-Aysberg. 8)

[Sunnah]

Plz listen to this audio:
http://www.troid.org/audio/ibaadah/purificationofthesoul/tarheeb/remedies.htm

A profound khutbah from the seminar in Philadelphia, USA (Dec/02). Our noble brother, Aboo Khadeejah, speaks in regard to destruction, oppression, distress and disunity of the ummah. Explaining its causes and providing light upon its remedies.

In explanation of this oft discussed yet seldom understood topic, Aboo Khadeejah states,

Imaam Maalik (rahimahullaah) said, ‘The later part of this ummah will not be rectified except by that which rectified its earliest part’.

So that which rectifies in the time of the sahaabah is the same thing that will rectify today! It is not anything different; it is not by entering into democracy, and entering into the houses of parliament, and entering into the senate houses and entering into elections. This is not from the forms of revival; it is not another form of revival, as some of the so-called people who claim salafiyyah for themselves, as they say, ‘the way to rectify the ummah is to set up jam’iyyaat (societies) and jamaa’aat (groups)’. Each jam’iyyah and jama’aah has its own ameer (leader), so they elect an ameer, then they give the bay’ah (pledge of allegiance) to the ameer. They say ‘this ameer, he knows the affair of the ummah, so we will refer back to him for all our..’, so instead of going back to the ruler, instead of using the state or Islaamic nation. Instead they say, ‘we have a group, we have a jam’iyyah or we have a jama’aah, our jama’aah has a leader’, this ameer is like a mini ameerul-mu’mineen. All of these methodologies oppose the sunnah of the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) because all of them are newly invented ideologies, because this part of the ummah that we are living in today will not be rectified except by that which rectified the earliest part.

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, ‘When you start taking part in illegal transactions that involve a type of interest, and you hold onto the tails of cattle and you become satisfied with cultivation and you abandon jihaad, then the humiliation of Allaah will descend upon you.’

The humiliation of whom? The Jews? The Free Masons? The United Nations? The Hindus? The Russians? Upon you will come the humiliation of Allaah! And Allaah will not remove the humiliation until you return back to your religion. Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) didn’t say, ‘up until you return back to the jihad on the battlefields?’ Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) didn’t say, ‘up until you return back to the worship of the idols or the graves’. He (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not say, ‘up until you go and start blowing up buildings and taking part in terrorism and uniting with the kuffar and accepting the Jews and Christians as your brothers.’ He (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not day this! He (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said ‘when you abandon jihaad, when you hold on to the tails of cattle, when you become satisfied with cultivation. Then the humiliation of Allaah will descend. This is Allaah’s humiliation we are suffering today.

Do you think the Jews have any power over the will of Allaah? Do you think the Americans have any power over the will of Allaah? Do you believe they are the ones who control the earth? For if you were to listen to the takfeerees and these tahreerees and these political activists, you would think by the way they speak, you would think that Allaah no longer controls the earth and that the Americans and the Jews control the earth. So they make you leave the tawaakil (reliance) of Allaah and they make you believe that all the plots and plans and the control of the earth is in the hands of the kuffar, as if Allaah doesn’t control it anymore! This humiliation that you are suffering and we are suffering as an ummah, our women being raped, our brothers being killed, all of this is from the humiliation of Allaah and Allaah will not remove this humiliation upon until we return back to the religion.

Revival of the Muslim Ummah is by Tasfiyah and Tarbiyah


By Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud-Deen al-Albaanee (d.1420H)


From Fiqhul-Waaqi', pp. 49-51

Therefore, the key to a return of the glory of Islaam is:

Implementation of beneficial knowledge and establishing righteous and correct actions, and this is a very great affair with the Muslims cannot reach, except through the methodology (manhaj) of tasfiyah (purification and correction) and tarbiyah (education and cultivation). These being two very great obligations. By the first of these (i.e. tasfiyah), the following is intended:

1.. Purifying the Islamic Aqeedah from that which is alien to it, such as shirk, ta'teel, ta`weel, refusing authentic ahaadeeth, because they are connected to matters of 'aqeedah, and their like.

2.. Purifying the Islamic fiqh from erroneous judgements which are contrary to the Qur`aan and the Sunnah, freeing the minds from the fetters of blind-following and the darkness of sectarianism and party spirit.

3. Purifying the books of tafseer, fiqh and raqaa'iq (matters concerning the heart) and other than that from ahadeeth that are weak and fabricated, or the unsupported narrations from the people of the Book, and the reprehensible narrations.

As regards the second obligation (i.e. tarbiyah), then by it I mean: cultivating the young generation upon this Islaam, purified from all that we have mentioned, giving to them a correct Islamic education from the start - without any influence from the disbelieving western education. There is no doubt that bringing these two obligations about requires huge efforts and sincere cooperation between all Muslims, individuals and groups, from all those who are truly concerned with establishing the desired Islamic society, each one working in his own field and specialty."

[royal1]

Aleek

That bb's question was regarding the having more that one wife of the muslim men.

How that could effect to entire nation or religion ?

As above Guest: 6aec8aef respectivly mentioned regarding that.
Do all men in muslim religion has more than one wife ?
Becouse , as our religion teaches that just marrying to 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife
must be fullfilled with so many own responcibilities otherwise that would be
as sin.

Even for example You may put in this forum asking forum members for : Anyone would like to have , Defenetly have 2nd , 3rd or 4th wife. Without even having 1 at this moment, they all will say for the joke.....

It's another issue that having more than one wife effecting to muslims or islamic society I don't think so.....that is equal to saying Titianik been by jews-Aysberg. 8)

[karekeng]

To all,
None of your comments answered ББ's question about the crisis in Islamic world. Why are there wars and conflicts involved around this religion? Why do we fight with each other? What can't we divide amount ourselves?
Although, I am a muslim myself and have faith in Islam, I don't hesitate to ask questions like that.

не пойму, чего бояться в этом вопросе, Ведь у каждого должен быть свой ответ на любой вопрос. Чел высказал свое мнение ссылаясь на сказанное его знакомым. Я отвечу: нет, ты не прав, ББ, и твой друг-мусульманин тоже.

Блин, если честно зарубежом уже сидя в каком-нибудь официальном кругу, стесняешься даже сказать "я мусульманин". Многие имеют предрассудки в отношении мусульмаства. Один из мусульманских ученых (имя шаЗ забыл, сорри) сказал: "Терроситы не мусульмане, мусульмане не террористы". И он прав.

Я респектирую любые другие религии и никогда не навязываю свою религию кому-нибудь другому, ИБО каждый отвечает сам за себя и "спросить" за что-либо имеет права только АЛЛАХ.

В какой-то статье писали, что американцы боятся того, что Ислам может проникнуть и на правительственные уровни... В общем, все это не правильно.

Да простит меня Аллах за следующее:

Я очень уважал своего учителя в школе, корейца. Он говорил, что всему можно найти логическое объяснение. Когда спросил его, а религии тоже, например, Исламу? Он сказал, да. Многое пропущу, но на счет намаза, он сказал следующее:

5 раз молиться вообще предназначено старым людям. Им намаз важен как зарядка, притом первый намаз рано утром. А вряд ли кто-нибудь себя заставит рано утром встать и делать зарядки. Не смешно! (я лишь улыбнулся)

Ислам позволяет оставаться не только здоровым (например, свининa в последствии признана непригоной для пищи), но и чистым (мыться после туалета, например), добрым по отношению к другим, миролюбивым (Ассалаума Алейкум) и концентрированным на "правильное". Мусульманин не может быть неграммонтным, он должен изучать и физику и химию и другие науки.

И грил, если ты даже считаешь себя чистым перед Богом, то все равно должен преклоняться перед ним, показывая другим, чтобы общество в целом не "гнала". Блин, шаЗ можно было бы бить по клаве и парить мозги себе и вам, но я не хочу, чтобы меня не правильно понимали. Все, что шаЗ творится в мире - безбожество (имею ввиду войны, распространение болезней, смертность и т.д.).

Кулху Аллаху Ахат Аллоху Ссамат
Лям ялит уэлам юлат уэлам
Яхунлаху купфан ахат.

кк

ПС. кстати, мусульмане бывают разные, а именно двух типов. Это уже другая тема.

BB,
hardoingidek ruscha va albatta kirillchada yozganingizga karamay orinli fikr bildiribsiz (yarmi hazil) Bilmadim bu butun bir dinning fojeasimi yoki yokmi, ammo kophotinlilik albatta foyda emas menimcha. "Otgan Kunlar" va boshka Jadid adabiyotida ham bu illat keskin koralangan.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

The Causes of Muslim Decline...-If I were given a choice, I would post the topic under this title.

"Apart from the Islamic world where fundamentalist political tendencies are quite marked, the global political scene is dominated by rhetoric and values that are primarily consumption oriented and that stress personal self gratification as the primary source of political action"

(Zbigniew Brzezinski national security adviser to President Carter and member of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board,-"Out of Control: Global turmoil on the eve of the 21st century"-New York, Touchstone books, 1995)

There is a tendency among the anti-Islamic and secular forces to think that the cause of the decline of the Muslim world is Islam itself. However, there are open minded western scholars who think that Islam played a positive role in the development of Muslim societies, like Toynbee, Hitti, Hodgson, Baeck, and Lewis.

(Refer to, "History of Arabs"-Philips Hitti,1958: "The Venture of Islam: Conscience and History in a world civilization"-Hodgson,Marshall,University of Chicago Press,1977:"The Middle East:2000 years of History from the Rise of Christianity to the Present Day"-Lewis, Bernard, London, 1995)


From Ibn 'Umar(radiyallahu 'anhuma) who said that Allah's Messanger (saw) said:

When you take part in 'eenah (a transaction that involves usury, interest) transactions, take hold of tails of cows, become satisfied with cultivation and abandon Jihad, Allah will send humiliation upon you and He will not remove it until you return to your Deen

(Reported by Aboo Daawood (eng. trans. vol. 3, p.395, no.3455) and is reported by Ahmad (no.4825) and Aboo Umayyah at-tarsoose in "Musnad ibn Umar" (no. 22), the hadith is raised to the level of hasan by combination of thses two chains.)

The State of affairs of the Ummah described in this hadeeth is "something that we are witnessing and its sighns are seen upon the Muslims, in that they have become slaves of the earth and of agriculture. Indeed this is apparent in every nation that is enslaved by earth, which has satisfied itself with agriculture, and it is jihaad in Islaam which is the prerequisite for success in the affairs- whether the slaves of Europe are pleased or not." (from a footnoteof Ahmad Shaakir to the Musnad (no. 4835)).

I would count the following points for the causes of Muslim decline:

1) The Wrong turn-

The End of al-Khalifah al-Rasheedah- the ideal political system enjoined by Islaam. Khilafah-the form of Government the the head of the state (Khalifa, President and etc) is elected by the people and is accountable to them. His primary responsiblity is to establish a just order and to cater to the well being of the people by managing the affairs of the state with the teachings of Sharia (the constitution-a dynamic and adjstable collection of the laws rooted in a few basic Islaamic teachings namely; Peace, Justice and Equality) and the decisions of Shura (parliament-an elected autonomous body whose existence is imperative (Quran, 3:159, and 42:38 ).

In this state muslims and non-muslims have equal rights. (Refer to:"The Middle East:2000 years of History from the Rise of Christiantiy to the Present Day"-Lewis, Bernard, London, 1995, pp72-73: ). The head of the state and parliament could be removed or renewed during the elections. The procedure of the election was left open by the Parliament thus could be adjusted and changed based on the situation. The ealry caliphs were thus elected and that makes Islaam and Democracy very similar. With the Establishment of Umayyad dynasty Islaamic teachings were violated i.e. pre-Islaamic teachings resurfaced and Islamic teachings with respect to statecraft were no longer reflected in the political institutions of the Muslim world. Umar Ibn Abdul-Aziz (d.720), eith among the twelve rulers of the Umayyad dynasty, tried officially to undo the illegitimacy, the heritage of the Kingdom from the father by the son, daughter or relative, but he was not successful. Those who did not want the democratic principles of Islaam to be established poisoned him after two-and-half years he came to the power.

In general this was the fate of the majority of reformers. Since the title of Caliph carried a great deal of respect and charisma, the rulers of a number of dynasties, for example Ottomans, found it politically advantageous to refer to themselves as Caliphs. That’s why Hodgson is right in saying that the “civilization of Islam as it has existed is far from the Clear expression of Islamic faith”("The Venture of Islam:Conscience and Histroy in a world civilization"-Hodgson,Marshall,University of Chicago Press,1977 Vol-I p-71). I am not trying to say that the continuation of the institutions of khalifah and shura would have been a panacea and eliminated all conflicts and problems. It would not. However, accountability of political authority in front of the citizens combined with the freedom of the people to criticize government policies would have led to more effective government, one that tried to ensure the prevalence of justice, law and order, and the effective use of available resources for all-round economic development. In spite of secularism, democratic governments in Western countries have done a great deal to promote justice, development and general well-being. This because the greater the accountability and freedom of expression, the higher the probability that the political authority will fulfill its obligations towards people. Free discussion of problems enables their correct diagnosis, and accountability motivates the Government to adopt effective remedies for solving them before it is too late.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

2) The loss of control over public finances-

The rulers committed unforgivably crime by using state resources indiscriminately for financing military campaigns, leading a life of luxury and extravagance, and supporting a large retinue of unproductive hangesrs-on and sychphants. (Refer to: Hitti p 302-304, and al-Tabari)

During Sultan Ahmed-I ‘ s time an average soldier was paid 3,407.8 silver coins per year. And he had an army of 91,202. (Bernard Lewis, “Ottoman observers of Ottoman decline”).

Basically very poor fiscal policy. A large number of hectares of public or private land were granted to elites. Lay people were exhausted with various types of unjust taxes.

3) Debasing the currency-

Fiscal imbalances led to the debasing of currency. Fraudulent practices in the issue of coins, I mean the ratio of gold, copper, and silver dropped dramatically thus people lost trust in the money. These events worked for the benefit of some Muslim economists, many books were produced on monetary policy and theory. (Baeck, Lous , “Mediterranean tradition in economic thought”, London, 1994 p.114)

4) Corruption and Sale of Political Positions-

For a long time the civil and military administration of the Ottoman Caliphate was considered to be the most efficient in Europe (Saunders, John “Muslim world on the eve of Europe’s expansion”, Prentice Hall 1966). The Grand Wazir, Chief Minister, was appointed for his competence. However, efficiency began to deteriorate in the 16th century when the sultans started to advance their personal favorites to this rank. This concerns not only Ottoman Empire but also the whole Muslim world at that time.

5) Economic and Political decline-

“In the Middle ages the commerce of the Muslim world was in every way ahead of that in Europe-richer, larger, better organized, with more commodities to sell and more money to buy, and a vastly more sophisticated network of trading relations " .

(Refer to afore mentioned book by Lewis, Bernard p. 177)

By the 18th century this position was reversed. Over-indulgence in military campaigns and ostentatious living on the part of the political elite, along with an over-extended and corrupt bureaucracy, left meager resources for education, infrastructure construction, health care and general well being. The rate of literacy among the Turkish masses was only about 2% in 1868. In 1850, there was hardly a single railroad track in the Ottoman Caliphate. The construction of railroads in 1870’s was only 180 km’s, this was nothing compared to the UK 32,623 km’s and the USA 401,977 km’s.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

6) The Stagnation of Fiqh-Islamic Jurisprudence.

The conflict that had simmered between scholars (religious) and the rulers after the introduction of political illegitimacy and the violation of a number of principles of Islamic Jurisprudence by the rulers. This reduced the possibility of a friendly and constructive dialogue between the two. This deprived the Muslim world of political reform. If that did not happen there would have been many political reforms. The rise of Mutazilism aroused suspicion among the ulema about falsafah and thus modern science. The control of the religious body by certain groups separated the modern science from the religious movement. By the end of the 13th century a number of physical sciences like physics and chemistry were labeled heresy and excluded from the syllabi of madrasahs, however they were taught all over the Muslim world before the 13th century. The stagnation of Fiqh prevented it from developing as a system in which all of its parts were interrelated through a focus on the realization of the overall well being and different fields of human life.

7) The Role of Sufism-

Sufism was a major blow to the development of Muslim world. Even though the sharia advocates the establishment of socio-economic justice through creation of public institutions, the Sufis did not want to be in public life, but the they advocated ascetism and certain anti-Islamic beliefs which further distanced Islamic movement from the modern science and the economic development. They condemned the richness; some of them gave up marriage considering women “the evil”, “the Work Of Satan”, the “Seducer into bad things.” Sufism destroyed spiritual and material balance among the lay people by emphasizing piety in its extreme form. It praised poverty and ascetism and promoted ecstatic obliteration of the individual self. Sufism stood for full-time devotion to prayer and lack of interest in pursuing career.

8 ) Deterioration in the Position of Women-

With the weakening of the central government, the spread of political insecurity, and the decline of rationalism, the position of women also suffered in Muslim society. The Quran prescribed equal rights for both men and women (Quran 2:228 ).

Roded Ruth in her “Women in Islamic biographical collections from Ibn Sa’d to Who is who” (Boulder and London 1994) mentions that in a literature devoted the Muslim scholars of the 7th century over 1200 of them or 15% of them were females. Even the women are not to be confined to their homes. (Abu Shuqqah, Tahrir al-Marahi fi asr al Risalah, Vol-II, p.15 and 83 1990, Kuwait Dar-ul Qalam).

After reading the biographies of thousands of women in 40 biographical collections dating from the 9th century, Ruth Roded, lecturer at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, did not find any evidence to support the view that Muslim women were “marginal, secluded and restricted". She therefore concluded that, “the role of women in traditional Islamic society has often been portrayed in extremely negative terms that are not justified by historic reality.”


Conclusion :!:

All of this together, caused Muslim World to plunge into the abyss of poverty and ignorance after remarkable achievements. Islamic world declined Not because of Islam, but despite the Islam , the Muslim world declined, in other words, for the lack of adherence to the true teachings of Islaam which was the equivalent of Justice, Freedom and Prosperity , very close concpets to that of Democracy and free society.

Cheers, :)

As new generation of uzbekistan, what do you think about having more than one wife?

Will you have only one or more?
and do parents involve in deciding to have another wife?

I just ask as an outsider because I'm not muslim now,
but I will in the near future.

[G]

Guest: 56fb94d1,

O'zi bittasini boqish qiyinu san ikkitasi haqida gapirasan.

[karekeng]

Хотел бы еще добавить:

НЕ КАЖДЫЙ араб мусульманин. Я еще не встречал нормальных арабов-мусульман: то они слишком "святые", то они екстремные, то они бабники (есть матершиное слово "е...ры"). Т.е. если "святые", то навязывают свои понятия, несут некоторые всякую фигню...

Арабы вообще, говорят, екстремные. Я лично таких частенько встречал, а с одним как-то жестко столкнулся.... Вижу также арабов бабниками (е..рами). Нормальных арабов за рубежом вряд ли найдешь.. это мое мнение.

У меня есть друзья мусульмане, но не арабы. Так что если араб, то не значит мусульманин.