Mahmoud Kashgari ve Yusuf Has Hajib Uygur mi Uzbek mi?

Who can tell me!

[royal#]

Guest: f8e206cc

Yusuf Hos Hojib 1020 yili Qorahoniylar (Farghona va Sharqiy Turkistonni oz ichiga olgan) davlatini asosiy shaharlaridan bolgan Bolosogunda ziyolilar oilasida dunyoga kelgan. Maktab va Madrasad arab va FORS tillarini mukammal organdi.
Oz asarlarini Ahmad Yassaviy singari turkiy tillaridagi she'evalarda yozishgan.

Eng mashhuri 75boblik "Qutadgu Bilik" turkiy tilda yozilgan Bolosogunda boshlab Qashqarda tugatgan deb yoziladi ma'anbalarda.

[alparslan]

about 1000 years ago within the TURK world todays ethnic subcategories did not exist.

so we cannot talk about UYGHUR (in todays sense), UZBEK, QARAQALPAK, QARACHAY, QUMIK, QAZAQ TURKs of that era.

earlier TURK subgroups were QIPCHAQ, QARLUQ, OGHUZ, PECHENEG, QUMAN, UYGHUR (old sense), QIRGIZ, TATAR, BULGHAR, OGHUR, QANGLI, QALACH, SIBIR, KHAZAR, BASMIL, YAGHMA etc.

[]I[ A JL JL O D]

alparslan: fd34ea2c, gapingga 100 foyiz qo'shilaman !

blst.

Mahmud Kashgari va yusuf Hos Hojib are obviously closer to Uzbeks than any other nation.
But as we know, our uyghur brothers love to make everything "uygur". I know some of them claim that people of Andijan are "uygur". That is ridiculous. Because Babur in his Baburnona said nothing about "uygurs" while he stated very clearly about the people of Andijan saying "eli turkdur". Modern Uzbeks people's name was Turk before, even in 1920s we were not Uzbeks we were Turks. None can argue about that. so called East Turkestan was under strong influence of us, Turks (current Uzbeks). Kashgar was part of Kokand Hanate even in the last century. I personally thingk that modern Uygurs has very little in common with Ancient Uygurs. They are under strong influence of Turks (Uzbeks).
Of course we are brothers with them, but such kind of ridiculous questions does not make sense.

modern Uygurs has very little in common with Ancient Uygurs

I don't undrstand what you mean.What is the difinition of Ancient Uygurs and Modern Uygur?

modern Uygurs has very little in common with Ancient Uygurs

I don't undrstand what you mean.What is the difinition of Ancient Uygurs and Modern Uygur?
go and jerk off. Mahmud Kashgari was not "uygur", neither Yusuf Hos Hojib. got it? There are A LOT OF Uzbeks in East Turkestan even today if you want to know.

[alparslan]

UZBEK TURKs of UZBEKISTAN, TAJIKISTAN, N AFGHANISTAN

and

UYGHUR TURKs of E TURKISTAN

are two closest TURK nations.

inheritors of the magnificient CHAGHATAY TURK heritage the two TURK nations should cooperate for a better future of TURKISTAN.


core of TURKISTAN =

KHIVA + SAMARQAND + BUKHARA + FERGHANA + KHUJAND + QURGHANTEPE + ANDKHOY + MAZARSHARIF + QUNDUZ + QASHGAR + URUMCHI + KHOTAN

[Great Uyghurs]

There is no nation called Uzbek before 15 century.As for today's Uzbeks ,they are not so-called Uzbeks at all.They are a branch of today's Uyghur.If you know your history ,you won't wonder at such questions.That is all!!

UZBEK TURKs of UZBEKISTAN, TAJIKISTAN, N AFGHANISTAN

and

UYGHUR TURKs of E TURKISTAN

are two closest TURK nations.

inheritors of the magnificient CHAGHATAY TURK heritage the two TURK nations should cooperate for a better future of TURKISTAN.


core of TURKISTAN =

KHIVA + SAMARQAND + BUKHARA + FERGHANA + KHUJAND + QURGHANTEPE + ANDKHOY + MAZARSHARIF + QUNDUZ + QASHGAR + URUMCHI + KHOTAN
I am agree with you even if what you said sounds like a fantacy.

Bu savollarning oxari chiqmaydi.chunki biz raqschi halqmiz,boshqalarning dopiga raqska tuship kunip qolgan almisoqdan.......oynap oynap qonmaymiz,boshqalar kuliviradi.....

[]I[ A JL JL O D]

Great Uyghurs: 299d34c4, yo'g'e, sizga o'hshagan faylasuflar bo'lmaganda dunyo nima qilar ediya ? Yahshiyamki siz borsiz, kim O'zbek kim Uyg'urligini biz nodon, sa'viyasizlarga tushuntirib turasiz. Hmm, shundoq qilib O'zbeklar Uyg'urlarni bir turi deng?! Qiziq ! Juda, juda qiziq. Yana nima deysiz Mavlono ?! Balki Odamato bilan Momohavolar ham Uyg'ur bo'lgandur a ?!?! :rolleyes:

[Ancient uighur]

Bu savollarning oxari chiqmaydi.chunki biz raqschi halqmiz,boshqalarning dopiga raqska tuship kunip qolgan almisoqdan.......oynap oynap qonmaymiz,boshqalar kuliviradi.....I wish some of uzbeks to study their own history very carefully,there is no name as uzbek in the turk world before 15th century,uighurs are ancient people among all of turks,and created great uighur civilization,the kingdom of kharahan is estabished by the tribal unit of uighur and qarluq,this kingdom is not estabished by uzbeks,even if uzbeks are not in existence in this age.mahmud kashgari is belong to royal family,yusup has hajib is lived in the reign of kharahan,he is older than mahmud kashgari,so we said definitely both of them are uighur,the consideration of Mahmud Kashgari, yusuf Has Hajib are obviously closer to Uzbeks is very idiot and ridiculous.uzbeks a part of uighurs,a russian scholar mentioned the history of uzbek language,and divine uzbek language into three parts which is ancient uighur language,chagatay uighur language and modern uzbek language.this is not from my viewpoint.I learnt it from american and russian scholars.I don`t know have some uighur people in andijan,if really have ,there was something in this claim. a guest said that modern Uygurs was very little in common with Ancient Uygurs,I think this man must read some books about uighur history.

[]I[ A JL JL O D]

Ancient uighur: 9bb9f48b, and you must read some books about English grammar bro !!!!!!!!

There is no nation called Uzbek before 15 century.As for today's Uzbeks ,they are not so-called Uzbeks at all.They are a branch of today's Uyghur.If you know your history ,you won't wonder at such questions.That is all!!
You stuped "superuygur" bigot. Know your place and do not destroy my respect to Uyghurs. Do not stick on the name "uzbek". Here name matters very little. Our name was TURK before Soviets. So, now think yourself, is Turk part of Uygur or Uygur part of Turk? After all, you are not uygur at all, now you are just chineese. Those uygurs who had very much in common with Uzbeks (i.e. Turks) almost non-existent. Do not show me pictures, in East Turkestan not only Uygurs live, there are considerable number of Uzbeks, Kazahs, Kirgiz and Tajiks live.

]I[ A JL JL O D, yes, you are right.I`ll study English grammar,sorry for my poor English.

After all, you are not uygur at all, now you are just chineese. Those uygurs who had very much in common with Uzbeks (i.e. Turks) almost non-existent.

What a sensible conclusion!!!.A very appreciatable comment.As you say, there are nobody called Uygur,uzbek,tadjik in east Turkestan,they are all chinese(Han chinese,uygur chinese,uzbek chinese,mongol chinese are part of great chinese nation,if you don't know it before,just visit official chinese site).And there is no a place called East Turkestan,keep in mind the name is Xinjiang and unalienable part of Great china.Do you acknowleged another sort of great game inside central asia?After chinese become a superpower(likely soon),Uzbekistan also be renamed to Xindifang,or Xinhaohaodifang or Xintudi,with many option.We also going to rename other CA states step by step.HAHAHAHAHAHA!

You seems to like that!.Then you'll be happy?You are really dickhead.Anyway,i don't see your comment is stand for whole Uzbek people.

[Oguzhan Avladi]

I am very proud of myself being an Uygur now and forever.(Though my grandparents fleed from Andijan to Yarkent after soviet revolution).Because,the Great Oguzkhan(Batur khan) of Huns named a group of people whom followed and provided him important assistant to his conquers around and enabled him to established Great Hun empire.Since,Uygurs are became one of the most important
tribe of Turks.In every significant Turk states you would see the role of Uygurs.From the Hun empire,GokTurk state,Orhon Uygur state,Karahaniylar state.Chagatay state..ect.We have been made history,continual contribution were made to the Turkic world.We were main part of those Turk state and Turkic civilization.That is why we proud,that is why we still keep our identity in China and that is why we going to disregard your insult to the Uygurs.
In fact,there is nothing to debate on the nationality of Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf has Hajib.It is not important.What the important is:will chinese claim them chinese?will russian claim them russian or indian?Answer is no.Only offsprings of these man will claim them of their ancestors.Uzbek says them their grandfathers,Uygurs also claiming same.Simple truth,let it conclude it yourself.

There is a discreet warning to some Uzbeks:If you like or not,most Uygurs think the only thing to apart Uygurs and Uzbeks is a border.No matter how you think,Uygurs keep showing deep affection to their Uzbek brothers(before Uzbek independed and now as well).We want nothing from you,won't even count on your help whith something,But, one thing only we suggest you do not forget:Karindashlik.Please never hurt us again,we have had enough of this.Do not hurt them in your soul.If both insisted to practice some stupid,then no much hope left for both people forever.
Aman bolunglar!

I am very proud of myself being an Uygur now and forever.(Though my grandparents fleed from Andijan to Yarkent after soviet revolution).Because,the Great Oguzkhan(Batur khan) of Huns named a group of people whom followed and provided him important assistant to his conquers around and enabled him to established Great Hun empire.
Good for you. But did you know that Ok Hunlar (Eftalitlar) made their capital Shash/chach(kent) Tashkent? Did you know that Sultan Mahmud Gaznavi and Karahanids called themselves as TURK not Uygur? And did you know that Sultan Sanjar (greatest Seljuk Empreror) was from current territory of Uzbekistan? Did you know that Mahmud Kashgari names his book "Devonul Lugatit Turk" not Uygur? Did you know that protoTurkic tribes lived in the territory of current Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan for thousands of years and resisted to Persian and other invaders throughout the history? Did you know that all great people from Turkistan ( not East Turkistan) called themselves as TURKS not Uygurs? Did you know that all those great people and their empires were Turkic not Uygur?
Since,Uygurs are became one of the most important
tribe of Turks.In every significant Turk states you would see the role of Uygurs.From the Hun empire,GokTurk state,Orhon Uygur state,Karahaniylar state.Chagatay state..ect.
Do not lie. Yes, uygurs are good people. Karahaniylar were not uygurs, neither Hund Empire nor Kok Turk state was uygur. There is not so called "chagatai state", Chgatoy was one the sons of Chengizhan. Chengiz devided his empire into several parts among his sons. Batu Dashti Kipchak and Russia, Chigatai took Turkistan and other other places. As there were several dialects among Turkic people (especially large ones are oguz, karluk and kipchak), people used to refer Turkic of Turkistan as Chigatai Turkic and Anatolian Turkic as Usmani Turkic. There was no Chigatai Turkic state, it was a Mongol colony names after one the sons of Chengiz.
We have been made history,continual contribution were made to the Turkic world.
Ture.
We were main part of those Turk state and Turkic civilization.
Not true. Everyone was "maind part", not only you.
That is why we proud,that is why we still keep our identity in China and that is why we going to disregard your insult to the Uygurs.
As a nation you have to keep your identity it very simple and not a heroic thing.
In fact,there is nothing to debate on the nationality of Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf has Hajib.It is not important.
It is important. Some of you "uygur brothers" are calling him "uygur". They were not "uygurs". If they were please tell them to show me HISTORICAL DOCUMENT that proves their claim.
What the important is:will chinese claim them chinese?will russian claim them russian or indian?Answer is no.Only offsprings of these man will claim them of their ancestors.Uzbek says them their grandfathers,Uygurs also claiming same.
No, Uzbeks have all the rights to claim them as their aoncestors. You are called as uygur for thousands of years. Uzbeks is very resent term, before 1920 there was no Uzbek nation. Our nations name was TURK and our land was called TURKISTAN. Those people were TURKS not Uygurs. You are sounding like Qazaqs who say Abu Nasr Farabi, Ahmad Yassavi and other were Qazaq and put their distorted (made to look like Qazaq) pictures in their currencies and other things. That is ridiculous.
Simple truth,let it conclude it yourself. Uzbeks are Turks. Before 1920 their name was Turk. Yes very simple truth. But some people seem to find it very difficult to admit.
There is a discreet warning to some Uzbeks:If you like or not,most Uygurs think the only thing to apart Uygurs and Uzbeks is a border.
No, you are uygur, we are uzbeks. Uzbeks are direct descendants of those great Turks in the history of Turkistan. You are uygurs.
No matter how you think,Uygurs keep showing deep affection to their Uzbek brothers(before Uzbek independed and now as well).
The same here.
We want nothing from you,won't even count on your help whith something,But, one thing only we suggest you do not forget:Karindashlik.
Kondoshlik is good. But some uygurs here are so disgusting (pardon my french). One day they say "Andijan us uygur place", and rejects HISTORICAL FACTS from "Boburnoma" where it is clearly stated "Eli Turkdur". Next day they say " Mahmud Kashgari was Uygur" while they close their eyes to the fact that Kashgari never called himself as uygur. True he never called himself as uzbek too, but if take the fact that historical name of the current uzbeks were turks, then you will be able to understand why uzbeks call him as their ancestor but not uygurs or qazaqs (in the case of Yassavi or Farabi).
Please never hurt us again,we have had enough of this.
I do not think anybody is hurting you. But some of your compatriots lack the ablity of rational thinking. In a lot of cases they act very rude by appearing in uzbek forum, first day saying "we are brothers" and the next day saying " uzbeks are actually uygurs, you just do not know". Remember, even though we are very close nations, uzbeks were never uygurs. we were turks and you were part of us not we. Unfortunately our name was changed in 1920 and everything got f@cked up. But we know who we are and do not need advises from "superuygurs" to realise who we are. In uzbek we say "yetti olchab bir kes" seven times measure and one time cut, "aytilgan gap otilgan ok" - said word is like shot bullet/arrow, so I would reccomend to some people here to thing before they mumble some ridiculous things.
Sen ham omon bol.

[PARAZIT]

shunaqa kilib uzbek mikan ??
:)

shunaqa kilib uzbek mikan ??
:)
Uzbek bolmasayam, bugungi Uzbeklar bu ikki buyuk olimga (shuningdek boshka Forobiy, Yassaviy kabi allomalarga ham) eng yakin bolgan halk.

[Oguzhan avladi]

Did you know that Mahmud Kashgari names his book "Devonul Lugatit Turk" not Uygur? Did you know that protoTurkic tribes lived in the territory of current Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan for thousands of years and resisted to Persian and other invaders throughout the history? Did you know that all great people from Turkistan ( not East Turkistan) called themselves as TURKS not Uygurs? Did you know that all those great people and their empires were Turkic not Uygur?

Agree.Besides,Uygurs has never claimed themselves as a different nation against Turks.We have been and still today is a tribe of Turks.

Do not lie. Yes, uygurs are good people. Karahaniylar were not uygurs, neither Hund Empire nor Kok Turk state was uygur.
I have never mean it.We are always part of it,and played important role in these state.You can (search through the web)consult Chinese history about Huns(Xiong-nu),it said Gaoche,Tie li,Ding ling(Uygur)are branch of Xiong-nu(Huns).When the GokTurk empire established in Mongolia(not in central asia),we were part of it.See Gokturkler.After collaps of Orhon Uygur state in Mongolia(undermined by Kirgiz while fighting against its enemies),they made mass immigration to the west in three direction around Ad 840.One group went Southwest(into Kansu in China around Dunhuang),still today we have some people here called Serik Uygur(Yugu in chinese)in Gansu(KanSu province).The second group arrived in west of Dzungaria and made a state Idikut.The third Group settled in Tarim basin and Yette Su(Today including Uzbekistan)region.A state called Karahanylar established in Kashgar.Royal family of Karahanylar belonged to the Karluk-Yagma tribes.See some usefull infos:
http://www.turkishembassy.org/countryprofile/turksandturkey.htm
http://www.almila.org

Or just search through the web inserting Uygur.Go and see what the other people will say.
Uzbeks have all the rights to claim them as their aoncestors. You are called as uygur for thousands of years. Uzbeks is very resent term, before 1920 there was no Uzbek nation. Our nations name was TURK and our land was called TURKISTAN. Those people were TURKS not Uygurs.
Nonsense comment.Uygur is inside Turk.Furthermore,The name of Uzbek comes from 15th century by a mongoloid King of Uzbekhan,not invented after 1920 as you say.
But some uygurs here are so disgusting (pardon my french). One day they say "Andijan us uygur place", and rejects HISTORICAL FACTS from "Boburnoma" where it is clearly stated "Eli Turkdur". Next day they say " Mahmud Kashgari was Uygur" while they close their eyes to the fact that Kashgari never called himself as uygur.

It is really not appropriate to call Uzbeks are Uygurs,but we are emphasizing the extra-ordinarily close relation.Emperator Babur has been defeted by Uzbek Shaybanihan.We have never forced or implied Uzbek people in our land to identify themselves as Uygurs.We've been showing respect and brothership more than to our own people.In fact,the circumstance is just opposite in Uzbekistan.Uygur population is diminishing dramatically,many Uygurs cannot identify themselves as Uygur in fear of lost jobs and discrimination by their Uzbek brothers.They have to keep their identity at home.This is no longer a secret.We feel shame for this.

we know who we are and do not need advises from "superuygurs" to realise who we are.
I feel sorry for the alleged Uzbek is Uygur issue.Unfortunately,100%ly Uygurs believe that there are nothing in ethnic,culture,national costum can separate two people(Russian can).I remember,when i was a student in inner chinese province,there were a Olympic delegation(probably in 1992)has entered into the Olympic stadium,they are wearing "Badam Doppa" and their appearance gave us(few Uygur student before the TV)so much pride,then we jump and cheered.It maybe seems senseless,you may say Uygurs take pride of our "yigit",ridiculous.Maybe,but we did.An in another occasion,there was a film about historical facts of World War two,in a farmfield stood an Uzbek girl who was wearing a "Doppa' and a "Atleskoynek" just nearby a railway.A costume that very common in Uygur girl(now,only in countryside).You will see millions of "Uzbeks"in such a dress and appearence if you come to visit us(mainly sehra) in some day.I dont say Uzbeks are Uygurs,but,I will have to say we are same.Title should not be an excuse,importance is reality.Do you know thousands of Jews from africa is black,but,nobody in Isreal would discriminate them as Negro,simply recognized by their European Jews Brothers as same as themselves.
we say "yetti olchab bir kes" seven times measure and one time cut, "aytilgan gap otilgan ok" - said word is like shot bullet/arrow, so I would reccomend to some people here to thing before they mumble some ridiculous things.

We say"yette olchep bir kes","eytilgan gep etilgan ok",also we say"suni sep siner yerge,gapni kil sigar yerge".So,i realized that it hurts both if we are arguing here,i have to surrender before of strong Uzbek "nationalism" which was succeeded to kick out Turkish pan-Turkist efforts from Uzbekistan years ago.
I am discouraged,frustrated,disappointed by few concepts regarding my people.However,I will not withdraw my affection and respect for whole Uzbeks.Simply,I will not post my comments on this forum anymore.

Sizlerge salametlik ve hoshallik tileymen.
Aman bolunglar.

Agree.Besides,Uygurs has never claimed themselves as a different nation against Turks.We have been and still today is a tribe of Turks.
That is much better.
I have never mean it.We are always part of it,and played important role in these state.You can (search through the web)consult Chinese history about Huns(Xiong-nu),it said Gaoche,Tie li,Ding ling(Uygur)are branch of Xiong-nu(Huns).When the GokTurk empire established in Mongolia(not in central asia),we were part of it.See Gokturkler.
Agree, that uygurs were famous in history.

After collaps of Orhon Uygur state in Mongolia(undermined by Kirgiz while fighting against its enemies),they made mass immigration to the west in three direction around Ad 840.One group went Southwest(into Kansu in China around Dunhuang),still today we have some people here called Serik Uygur(Yugu in chinese)in Gansu(KanSu province).The second group arrived in west of Dzungaria and made a state Idikut.The third Group settled in Tarim basin and Yette Su(Today including Uzbekistan)region.A state called Karahanylar established in Kashgar.Royal family of Karahanylar belonged to the Karluk-Yagma tribes.
Ok, you migrated after loosing to Kirgiz. But are you saying that there was nobody when you came to Turan? I do not agree with that part. Yetti suv is not in Uzbekistan it is in Kazahstan. Are you saying that if Korahoniylar were Karluks it makes them uygur? Wait a minute, is uygur part of Karluk group or Karluk group is part of Uygur??? Be fair here, he was not Uygur.

Nonsense comment.Uygur is inside Turk.Furthermore,The name of Uzbek comes from 15th century by a mongoloid King of Uzbekhan,not invented after 1920 as you say.
Perhaps it does not make sense to you. Uzbekhan was a person not the nation can you understand this??? He was the first Mongol ruler who accepted Islam under the pressure of his Turkic population (Tatars, Kipchaks, Nogays, Karluks and others) and then these Turkic people followed and supported him. It was not a nation. t was something like "Chigatai turk" the name of the person applied to a group of people.
but remember, there was no Uzbek nation. We were Turks.

It is really not appropriate to call Uzbeks are Uygurs,but we are emphasizing the extra-ordinarily close relation.Emperator Babur has been defeted by Uzbek Shaybanihan.
Yes he was defeated, why did you mention it? Just to say "your person was defeated"? I telling you again, Shayboniyhon was not Uzbek, he was Turk. There was no Uzbek nation untill 1920. It was just unification of Turks who formerly were under the rule of Uzbek.
We have never forced or implied Uzbek people in our land to identify themselves as Uygurs.
Neither did I. I know some uygurs in my birthplace. None discriminated them, because there is no reason to discriminate them.
We've been showing respect and brothership more than to our own people.In fact,the circumstance is just opposite in Uzbekistan.
Uygur population is diminishing dramatically,many Uygurs cannot identify themselves as Uygur in fear of lost jobs and discrimination by their Uzbek brothers.They have to keep their identity at home.This is no longer a secret.We feel shame for this.
You are making very serious and very dangerous statement. Do you carry all the responsibility to what you just have said? Show me the source. Where did you get the information about "uygurs diminishing in Uzbekistan"? Please show me. Are you referring to the death of poet Emin Usmon? I peersonally never knew that he was ethnic uygur. After his death there were statements on the web saying that he was uygur. My point is, none discriminated him before, he was very famous writer in Uzbekistan and had a lot of respect. Unfortunately, he died in prison according to some sources on the web. But I have got news for you, I do not think he was in prison because he was Uygur. A lot of Uzbeks are also in prison with political charges.

I feel sorry for the alleged Uzbek is Uygur issue.Unfortunately,100%ly Uygurs believe that there are nothing in ethnic,culture,national costum can separate two people(Russian can).I remember,when i was a student in inner chinese province,there were a Olympic delegation(probably in 1992)has entered into the Olympic stadium,they are wearing "Badam Doppa" and their appearance gave us(few Uygur student before the TV)so much pride,then we jump and cheered.It maybe seems senseless,you may say Uygurs take pride of our "yigit",ridiculous.Maybe,but we did.An in another occasion,there was a film about historical facts of World War two,in a farmfield stood an Uzbek girl who was wearing a "Doppa' and a "Atleskoynek" just nearby a railway.A costume that very common in Uygur girl(now,only in countryside).You will see millions of "Uzbeks"in such a dress and appearence if you come to visit us(mainly sehra) in some day.
Saying doppi as "dopa" will not prove that it is Uygur thing. Can't you just say that it is ours (both Uzbeks and Uygurs)??? Kazahs call it "toppa", tatars call it "tubiteyka", but it is largely accepted that it is Uzbek national hat. Many nationalities in Central Asia wear it. And that is very good thing.
I dont say Uzbeks are Uygurs,but,I will have to say we are same.Title should not be an excuse,importance is reality.Do you know thousands of Jews from africa is black,but,nobody in Isreal would discriminate them as Negro,simply recognized by their European Jews Brothers as same as themselves.
You did not, but some of your compatriots did. Youknow man, we are also a nation after all. Yes, there are a lot of common things in our culture, but it does not give them the right to call us as "Uygur" without our agreement, you know what I mean? Historically we were Turks, not we are Uzbeks and we are proud of that. Is there something that you or your compatriots do not agree? There has to be MUTUAL RESPECT my friend. First day saying "we are brothers" and next day saying "you are Uygurs" is not very nice.
We say"yette olchep bir kes","eytilgan gep etilgan ok",also we say"suni sep siner yerge,gapni kil sigar yerge".So,i realized that it hurts both if we are arguing here,i have to surrender before of strong Uzbek "nationalism" which was succeeded to kick out Turkish pan-Turkist efforts from Uzbekistan years ago.
I do not support those pan-turkists neither. You may not like it, but I do not support them. Because they call our language as a "dialect of Turkish", they same position that your strange compatriots have. They ignore our identity. They ignore our language and skpeak to us in TURKISH. Indeed, even if our languages are very similar, there are serious differences. Why should Uzbeks know Turkish, not Turkish know Uzbek, if our languages are the same? We are Turks, we were Turks without those panturkists in the history. We are Turks on our own. They translate Ahmad Yassavi and other Turkic (currently Uzbek) famous people's works into their ottoman turkish and therefore they think that these people were turkish.
I am discouraged,frustrated,disappointed by few concepts regarding my people.However,I will not withdraw my affection and respect for whole Uzbeks.Simply,I will not post my comments on this forum anymore.
I am sorry for you. But truth must be told. I respect Uygurs a lot. But I do not respect some people who try to put theirselves above us. Maybe they are not real Uygurs, maybe they are just Chineese provokateurs who are trying to create conflict between us. Only Allah knows.
Take care.

[Milletim Turk]

But did you know that Ok Hunlar (Eftalitlar) made their capital Shash/chach(kent) Tashkent?

Know that Eftalitler(Ak Hun)lived around Pamir,Kashmir,Afganistan and some part of current Uzbekstan,but,never heard of that their capital was Tashkent.Maybe,i have to study before confirm it.
And did you know that Sultan Sanjar (greatest Seljuk Empreror) was from current territory of Uzbekistan?
This comment based on self-imagine.Have you ever studied the history of Karahaniylar state?If you haven't,please do not distort history.We obliged to respect history,but not to change it on our personal thoughts.Seljuk(oguz) tribe was a part of Karahanylar and under the leadership of Togrul bey brothers.They have to move westward after a clash about state politics with Yusuf Kedirhan(King of Karahanylar).The latter tried to kill the chief of oguz tribe.The Oguz people conquered today Turkmenistan,north Iran and under the Oguz chief Seljuk oguz tribe conquered whole Iran,today Iraq,south Caucasus and part of Byzantum,then the Great Selijuk empire emerged.

Uzbeks are Turks. Before 1920 their name was Turk. Yes very simple truth. But some people seem to find it very difficult to admit.
Uzbeks is very resent term, before 1920 there was no Uzbek nation. Our nations name was TURK and our land was called TURKISTAN
We,The Turks have to feel ashamed that we have never raised the identity of Turk as a title for whole Turks,Every tribes admit to their nation belongs Turks,no one answered I am Turk,though the title of Turk very long history untill Turkiye established.Uzbek(since 15 th century),Kipchak,Uygur,Kirgiz,Tatar,Osmanli,Azeri is their identity instead of Turk.The identity of Turk as a title for whole Turkic people emphasized by Tatars in Russia in the beginning of this century and used as political,geografical and national name for the Ottoman people by the Ataturk in 1923.
Turkestan was not called by either Uzbek or other Turks.It was named by the Europeans(by the 18th century) and appeared to be a geografical term rather than a national or a political term untill lately.It was Turan not Turkestan.
If i ask a Uzbek today that what is your nationality,answer is 100% Uzbek ,not Turk,same with other Turks except From Turkiye.To my shame and my upset,Milletim Turk was never an answer for central asian Turks along the history(though it appears in literature).Turks consists several extra-ordinarily and excessively selfish tribes never united each other.This is painfull fact.Tribal nationalism in central asian Turks is fatal.Contributes only split culturally and ethnically each other.Keep in mind,there are 22 Arab nation in the world,but always a loser when they confront with little Israel(American behind is factor,not an excuse for feilure of Arabs).Arabs much more close in lunguage,culture and history each other than Turks.But,they never united,suspicious,jealous,Iraqis disdains Saudis,Palestian disgraces Beduins,Eygiptian sells Moroccans...ect.Chinese can be a model,there are more than 10 dialects throughout china,shanghaiese,mandarin and kantonese cannot understand at all each other,not even a word spoken same,they don't have any trouble to call themselves chinese,no one stick into differenses.Tribe was extinct over than 2000 years in china,and they all have family names as long as their history.That is called civilization.
Tribal nationalism seems to very obvious profile of Turks.(even the mongols have came under a title)
That is our tragedy and seems to long last and stay splitted for good.
Turkish(Turkche)spoken by nearly 150 million people in different dialects today,but,it is not a official language of UN.Why so? answer is simple again,many Uzbek Kardeshimiz in this forum says we are Turks,the name Uzbek invented 1920.Ok,if that is truth and you convinced,Can you dare to go to the city hall tomorrow and register your nationality as Turk?I think you don't.We say this"agzide sheher almak","demek asan,kilmak kiyin".Why you don't going to rename your nationality?Can you give me a reason?

Soalimge Javabingiz ni saklaymen!!! Soruma jevabinizi bekliyorum!!

Hemminglarge amanlik tileymen.

We,The Turks have to feel ashamed that we have never raised the identity of Turk as a title for whole Turks,Every tribes admit to their nation belongs Turks,no one answered I am Turk,though the title of Turk very long history untill Turkiye established.
I do not know about you but UZbeks have nothing to be ashamed of. We are the direct descendant of those great Turks who lived in our land.

Uzbek(since 15 th century),Kipchak,Uygur,Kirgiz,Tatar,Osmanli,Azeri is their identity instead of Turk.
I am telling you again, Uzbek is not from 15 century, it is from 1920. There was no Uzbek nation before that. Our nation's name was TURK. Uzbek was just muslim.mongol han's name which frequently was aplied to the people who lived in his lands who later on migrated to Turkistan and got mixed with local Turkistani turks.
The identity of Turk as a title for whole Turkic people emphasized by Tatars in Russia in the beginning of this century and used as political,geografical and national name for the Ottoman people by the Ataturk in 1923.
The identity if Turk was used in Central Asia very often and on regular basis, writings from Babur, Navai, Amir Temur, Ulugbek, Mashrab, Abulgozi Bahodirhon and other sources confirm it.
Turkestan was not called by either Uzbek or other Turks.It was named by the Europeans(by the 18th century) and appeared to be a geografical term rather than a national or a political term untill lately.It was Turan not Turkestan.
Do you know that Amir Temur called himself as "Turkiston Amiri"?

If i ask a Uzbek today that what is your nationality,answer is 100% Uzbek ,not Turk,same with other Turks except From Turkiye.
Today cannot affect history. If we call ourselves as Uzbek today it does not mean that we are not Turks. We the ones who inherited rich culture and traditions of Turanian (Central Asian) turks.
To my shame and my upset,Milletim Turk was never an answer for central asian Turks along the history(though it appears in literature).
Why are you ashamed? I do not understand. What do you mean by " though it appears in literature"??? If you do not trust historical documents what can I do? Do you want all those people rose from their graves and testify? You are interesting person.
Turks consists several extra-ordinarily and excessively selfish tribes never united each other.This is painfull fact.
Do you want us obey you? Who are you, that we should obey you? Uzbeks to not need to obey anyone. Others obeyed us. We are the children of those glorious Turks of Central Asia.
Tribal nationalism in central asian Turks is fatal.Contributes only split culturally and ethnically each other.
Do you have tribes in Turkey? We do not have tribes in Uzbekistan today, be careful when talking. UZbeks are NATION not tribe. We are the same nation with those Turks in history of Central Asia.
Keep in mind,there are 22 Arab nation in the world,but always a loser when they confront with little Israel(American behind is factor,not an excuse for feilure of Arabs).Arabs much more close in lunguage,culture and history each other than Turks.But,they never united,suspicious,jealous,Iraqis disdains Saudis,Palestian disgraces Beduins,Eygiptian sells Moroccans...ect.
I do not give a shoot neither about arabs nor about jews.
Chinese can be a model,there are more than 10 dialects throughout china,shanghaiese,mandarin and kantonese cannot understand at all each other,not even a word spoken same,they don't have any trouble to call themselves chinese,no one stick into differenses.Tribe was extinct over than 2000 years in china,and they all have family names as long as their history.That is called civilization.
Chineese cannot be a model. They are oppressing hundreds of nations and ethnisities inside their country, just like russia. But they all use mandarin right??? What do you propose? Using anatolian turkish??? Why??? Why should I change my language, language of Ahmad Yassaviy, Mahmud Kashgari, Alisher Navai, Babur and others to the language of ataturk??? Do not teach us for civilization man. Our homeland was craddle of civilization historically. We have hard time now, but we will recover, do not be glad.
Tribal nationalism seems to very obvious profile of Turks.(even the mongols have came under a title)
It is not tribal nationalism, my friend. Uzbeks are nation, do not forget! We are those historically glorious Turks of Central Asia, Turan! What do you mean by "even mongols"? Do you think that you are somewhat higher than mongols?? Why?
That is our tragedy and seems to long last and stay splitted for good.
Turkish(Turkche)spoken by nearly 150 million people in different dialects today,but,it is not a official language of UN.
It is not TurkchE, but TurkchA. Maybe yours is turkche. But UzbekchA, the continuation of Turom turkchasi is not a dialect, do you understand or not???
Why so? answer is simple again,many Uzbek Kardeshimiz in this forum says we are Turks,the name Uzbek invented 1920.Ok,if that is truth and you convinced,Can you dare to go to the city hall tomorrow and register your nationality as Turk?I think you don't.
You are wrong! Completely wrong! I am daring to marry Azeri girl and if Allah will, when we will have a child, we are planning to register him as Turk, neither Uzbek nor Azeri. We are not doing it to imitate to ottoman turks, but we are showing our respect to our own ancestors who were Turks. Maybe in the future, I will use all my knowledge and ability to correct that historical mistake made in 1924! So that our younger people would not have to experience insults from various "uygurs" and "ottomans" and "oguzs"!!!
We say this"agzide sheher almak","demek asan,kilmak kiyin".Why you don't going to rename your nationality?Can you give me a reason?
I am obliged to perort about my personal life to you, but I already shared some of my plans with you.
Soalimge Javabingiz ni saklaymen!!! Soruma jevabinizi bekliyorum!!
I do not know what language was that first part. If you tried to sound Uzbek you did not. It will be like this: Savolmga javobingizni kutaman.

Hemminglarge amanlik tileymen.
I think you are uygur.
Senga hudo insof bersin.

[Turk]

shunaqa kilib uzbek mikan ??
:)
Uzbek bolmasayam, bugungi Uzbeklar bu ikki buyuk olimga (shuningdek boshka Forobiy, Yassaviy kabi allomalarga ham) eng yakin bolgan halk.

Nonsense.How much do you know about China and Chinese people?There is no sensible thing in your talk,though it is so long.

We,The Turks have to feel ashamed that we have never raised the identity of Turk as a title for whole Turks,Every tribes admit to their nation belongs Turks,no one answered I am Turk,though the title of Turk very long history untill Turkiye established.
I do not know about you but UZbeks have nothing to be ashamed of. We are the direct descendant of those great Turks who lived in our land.

Uzbek(since 15 th century),Kipchak,Uygur,Kirgiz,Tatar,Osmanli,Azeri is their identity instead of Turk.
I am telling you again, Uzbek is not from 15 century, it is from 1920. There was no Uzbek nation before that. Our nation's name was TURK. Uzbek was just muslim.mongol han's name which frequently was aplied to the people who lived in his lands who later on migrated to Turkistan and got mixed with local Turkistani turks.
The identity of Turk as a title for whole Turkic people emphasized by Tatars in Russia in the beginning of this century and used as political,geografical and national name for the Ottoman people by the Ataturk in 1923.
The identity if Turk was used in Central Asia very often and on regular basis, writings from Babur, Navai, Amir Temur, Ulugbek, Mashrab, Abulgozi Bahodirhon and other sources confirm it.
Turkestan was not called by either Uzbek or other Turks.It was named by the Europeans(by the 18th century) and appeared to be a geografical term rather than a national or a political term untill lately.It was Turan not Turkestan.
Do you know that Amir Temur called himself as "Turkiston Amiri"?

If i ask a Uzbek today that what is your nationality,answer is 100% Uzbek ,not Turk,same with other Turks except From Turkiye.
Today cannot affect history. If we call ourselves as Uzbek today it does not mean that we are not Turks. We the ones who inherited rich culture and traditions of Turanian (Central Asian) turks.
To my shame and my upset,Milletim Turk was never an answer for central asian Turks along the history(though it appears in literature).
Why are you ashamed? I do not understand. What do you mean by " though it appears in literature"??? If you do not trust historical documents what can I do? Do you want all those people rose from their graves and testify? You are interesting person.
Turks consists several extra-ordinarily and excessively selfish tribes never united each other.This is painfull fact.
Do you want us obey you? Who are you, that we should obey you? Uzbeks to not need to obey anyone. Others obeyed us. We are the children of those glorious Turks of Central Asia.
Tribal nationalism in central asian Turks is fatal.Contributes only split culturally and ethnically each other.
Do you have tribes in Turkey? We do not have tribes in Uzbekistan today, be careful when talking. UZbeks are NATION not tribe. We are the same nation with those Turks in history of Central Asia.
Keep in mind,there are 22 Arab nation in the world,but always a loser when they confront with little Israel(American behind is factor,not an excuse for feilure of Arabs).Arabs much more close in lunguage,culture and history each other than Turks.But,they never united,suspicious,jealous,Iraqis disdains Saudis,Palestian disgraces Beduins,Eygiptian sells Moroccans...ect.
I do not give a shoot neither about arabs nor about jews.
Chinese can be a model,there are more than 10 dialects throughout china,shanghaiese,mandarin and kantonese cannot understand at all each other,not even a word spoken same,they don't have any trouble to call themselves chinese,no one stick into differenses.Tribe was extinct over than 2000 years in china,and they all have family names as long as their history.That is called civilization.
Chineese cannot be a model. They are oppressing hundreds of nations and ethnisities inside their country, just like russia. But they all use mandarin right??? What do you propose? Using anatolian turkish??? Why??? Why should I change my language, language of Ahmad Yassaviy, Mahmud Kashgari, Alisher Navai, Babur and others to the language of ataturk??? Do not teach us for civilization man. Our homeland was craddle of civilization historically. We have hard time now, but we will recover, do not be glad.
Tribal nationalism seems to very obvious profile of Turks.(even the mongols have came under a title)
It is not tribal nationalism, my friend. Uzbeks are nation, do not forget! We are those historically glorious Turks of Central Asia, Turan! What do you mean by "even mongols"? Do you think that you are somewhat higher than mongols?? Why?
That is our tragedy and seems to long last and stay splitted for good.
Turkish(Turkche)spoken by nearly 150 million people in different dialects today,but,it is not a official language of UN.
It is not TurkchE, but TurkchA. Maybe yours is turkche. But UzbekchA, the continuation of Turom turkchasi is not a dialect, do you understand or not???
Why so? answer is simple again,many Uzbek Kardeshimiz in this forum says we are Turks,the name Uzbek invented 1920.Ok,if that is truth and you convinced,Can you dare to go to the city hall tomorrow and register your nationality as Turk?I think you don't.
You are wrong! Completely wrong! I am daring to marry Azeri girl and if Allah will, when we will have a child, we are planning to register him as Turk, neither Uzbek nor Azeri. We are not doing it to imitate to ottoman turks, but we are showing our respect to our own ancestors who were Turks. Maybe in the future, I will use all my knowledge and ability to correct that historical mistake made in 1924! So that our younger people would not have to experience insults from various "uygurs" and "ottomans" and "oguzs"!!!
We say this"agzide sheher almak","demek asan,kilmak kiyin".Why you don't going to rename your nationality?Can you give me a reason?
I am obliged to perort about my personal life to you, but I already shared some of my plans with you.
Soalimge Javabingiz ni saklaymen!!! Soruma jevabinizi bekliyorum!!
I do not know what language was that first part. If you tried to sound Uzbek you did not. It will be like this: Savolmga javobingizni kutaman.

Hemminglarge amanlik tileymen.
Nonsense.How much do you know about China and Chinese people?There is no sensible thing in your talk,though it is so long.

I think you are uygur.
Senga hudo insof bersin.

We,The Turks have to feel ashamed that we have never raised the identity of Turk as a title for whole Turks,Every tribes admit to their nation belongs Turks,no one answered I am Turk,though the title of Turk very long history untill Turkiye established.
I do not know about you but UZbeks have nothing to be ashamed of. We are the direct descendant of those great Turks who lived in our land.

Uzbek(since 15 th century),Kipchak,Uygur,Kirgiz,Tatar,Osmanli,Azeri is their identity instead of Turk.
I am telling you again, Uzbek is not from 15 century, it is from 1920. There was no Uzbek nation before that. Our nation's name was TURK. Uzbek was just muslim.mongol han's name which frequently was aplied to the people who lived in his lands who later on migrated to Turkistan and got mixed with local Turkistani turks.
The identity of Turk as a title for whole Turkic people emphasized by Tatars in Russia in the beginning of this century and used as political,geografical and national name for the Ottoman people by the Ataturk in 1923.
The identity if Turk was used in Central Asia very often and on regular basis, writings from Babur, Navai, Amir Temur, Ulugbek, Mashrab, Abulgozi Bahodirhon and other sources confirm it.
Turkestan was not called by either Uzbek or other Turks.It was named by the Europeans(by the 18th century) and appeared to be a geografical term rather than a national or a political term untill lately.It was Turan not Turkestan.
Do you know that Amir Temur called himself as "Turkiston Amiri"?

If i ask a Uzbek today that what is your nationality,answer is 100% Uzbek ,not Turk,same with other Turks except From Turkiye.
Today cannot affect history. If we call ourselves as Uzbek today it does not mean that we are not Turks. We the ones who inherited rich culture and traditions of Turanian (Central Asian) turks.
To my shame and my upset,Milletim Turk was never an answer for central asian Turks along the history(though it appears in literature).
Why are you ashamed? I do not understand. What do you mean by " though it appears in literature"??? If you do not trust historical documents what can I do? Do you want all those people rose from their graves and testify? You are interesting person.
Turks consists several extra-ordinarily and excessively selfish tribes never united each other.This is painfull fact.
Do you want us obey you? Who are you, that we should obey you? Uzbeks to not need to obey anyone. Others obeyed us. We are the children of those glorious Turks of Central Asia.
Tribal nationalism in central asian Turks is fatal.Contributes only split culturally and ethnically each other.
Do you have tribes in Turkey? We do not have tribes in Uzbekistan today, be careful when talking. UZbeks are NATION not tribe. We are the same nation with those Turks in history of Central Asia.
Keep in mind,there are 22 Arab nation in the world,but always a loser when they confront with little Israel(American behind is factor,not an excuse for feilure of Arabs).Arabs much more close in lunguage,culture and history each other than Turks.But,they never united,suspicious,jealous,Iraqis disdains Saudis,Palestian disgraces Beduins,Eygiptian sells Moroccans...ect.
I do not give a shoot neither about arabs nor about jews.
Chinese can be a model,there are more than 10 dialects throughout china,shanghaiese,mandarin and kantonese cannot understand at all each other,not even a word spoken same,they don't have any trouble to call themselves chinese,no one stick into differenses.Tribe was extinct over than 2000 years in china,and they all have family names as long as their history.That is called civilization.
Chineese cannot be a model. They are oppressing hundreds of nations and ethnisities inside their country, just like russia. But they all use mandarin right??? What do you propose? Using anatolian turkish??? Why??? Why should I change my language, language of Ahmad Yassaviy, Mahmud Kashgari, Alisher Navai, Babur and others to the language of ataturk??? Do not teach us for civilization man. Our homeland was craddle of civilization historically. We have hard time now, but we will recover, do not be glad.
Tribal nationalism seems to very obvious profile of Turks.(even the mongols have came under a title)
It is not tribal nationalism, my friend. Uzbeks are nation, do not forget! We are those historically glorious Turks of Central Asia, Turan! What do you mean by "even mongols"? Do you think that you are somewhat higher than mongols?? Why?
That is our tragedy and seems to long last and stay splitted for good.
Turkish(Turkche)spoken by nearly 150 million people in different dialects today,but,it is not a official language of UN.
It is not TurkchE, but TurkchA. Maybe yours is turkche. But UzbekchA, the continuation of Turom turkchasi is not a dialect, do you understand or not???
Why so? answer is simple again,many Uzbek Kardeshimiz in this forum says we are Turks,the name Uzbek invented 1920.Ok,if that is truth and you convinced,Can you dare to go to the city hall tomorrow and register your nationality as Turk?I think you don't.
You are wrong! Completely wrong! I am daring to marry Azeri girl and if Allah will, when we will have a child, we are planning to register him as Turk, neither Uzbek nor Azeri. We are not doing it to imitate to ottoman turks, but we are showing our respect to our own ancestors who were Turks. Maybe in the future, I will use all my knowledge and ability to correct that historical mistake made in 1924! So that our younger people would not have to experience insults from various "uygurs" and "ottomans" and "oguzs"!!!
We say this"agzide sheher almak","demek asan,kilmak kiyin".Why you don't going to rename your nationality?Can you give me a reason?
I am obliged to perort about my personal life to you, but I already shared some of my plans with you.
Soalimge Javabingiz ni saklaymen!!! Soruma jevabinizi bekliyorum!!
I do not know what language was that first part. If you tried to sound Uzbek you did not. It will be like this: Savolmga javobingizni kutaman.

Hemminglarge amanlik tileymen.
I think you are uygur.
Senga hudo insof bersin.
Nonsense.How much do you know about China and Chinese people?There is no sensible thing in your talk,though it is so long.

If this is nonsense, do not even say "we are brothers" go and jerk off. I do not care who you are, ottoman, superuygur I simply do not care. Ok it kora it baribir it!

If this is nonsense, do not even say "we are brothers" go and jerk off. I do not care who you are, ottoman, superuygur I simply do not care. Ok it kora it baribir it!

He is insane!.Can somebody help?Call the doctor!!!!!!!!

Chineese cannot be a model. They are oppressing hundreds of nations and ethnisities inside their country, just like russia. But they all use mandarin right??? What do you propose? Using anatolian turkish???
You have misunderstand me.I dont comment on its politics.The issue applies only in different dialects(reality is language)stuation in china.Not everybody speak mandarin.Mandarin in north,kantonese in south,shanghaiese in east,few other in the west.almost different that failed to communicate each other and these people claims only one nation,though their culture also not all same.
Uzbeks are nation, do not forget!
Yes!half right. Uzbek is a nation politically,but,not a nation ethnically.Turk is the only title applies for ethnical identity for all Turky milletler as a nation.Remember ethnically.
Do you want us obey you? Who are you, that we should obey you? Uzbeks to not need to obey anyone. Others obeyed us. We are the children of those glorious Turks of Central Asia.
You nonsense again.Uzbek people have a lots to proud of themselves,only enemies of Turks wants to domain you.
I do not give a shoot neither about arabs nor about jews.
Same here.(It was just an example,mean nothing)
we will have a child, we are planning to register him as Turk, neither Uzbek nor Azeri.
Nice!.(appreciated!)
I think you are uygur.
Yes.Never kind of superuygur.(Men intain insaflik Uygur).
How much do you know about China and Chinese people?
No need to answer this question.(right?)

I am not came here in your forum to argue with Uzbek brothers.(do not insult me if i say we're bro)It is obvious and expected to have different idea at both side.It is also not surprising if we hear from some superuygurs and as well as radical Uzbeks,because,few guys intended to be not serious.I am sure that none of us here is historian or researcher.We are just kind of curious,enthusiastic man.Basically,origin of Kashgari and Has Hajib not so important(though,in fact the Kashgari is Uygur),because their work was dedicated to all Turks not for Uzbek or Uygur alone.Claim it forever if you like.It is just as tiresome as discusting the origin of Nasredin Afendi(Hoja Nasredin).Everywhere,you'll hear different version of his legend.
Virtual communication seems to be the only way for us,i am just want to know something from you which i don't know as well as tell you something which you don't know.That is why this is called a forum.

Hosh,hemminglar aman bolunglar!

We,The Turks have to feel ashamed that we have never raised the identity of Turk as a title for whole Turks,Every tribes admit to their nation belongs Turks,no one answered I am Turk,though the title of Turk very long history untill Turkiye established.
I do not know about you but UZbeks have nothing to be ashamed of. We are the direct descendant of those great Turks who lived in our land.

Uzbek(since 15 th century),Kipchak,Uygur,Kirgiz,Tatar,Osmanli,Azeri is their identity instead of Turk.
I am telling you again, Uzbek is not from 15 century, it is from 1920. There was no Uzbek nation before that. Our nation's name was TURK. Uzbek was just muslim.mongol han's name which frequently was aplied to the people who lived in his lands who later on migrated to Turkistan and got mixed with local Turkistani turks.
The identity of Turk as a title for whole Turkic people emphasized by Tatars in Russia in the beginning of this century and used as political,geografical and national name for the Ottoman people by the Ataturk in 1923.
The identity if Turk was used in Central Asia very often and on regular basis, writings from Babur, Navai, Amir Temur, Ulugbek, Mashrab, Abulgozi Bahodirhon and other sources confirm it.
Turkestan was not called by either Uzbek or other Turks.It was named by the Europeans(by the 18th century) and appeared to be a geografical term rather than a national or a political term untill lately.It was Turan not Turkestan.
Do you know that Amir Temur called himself as "Turkiston Amiri"?

If i ask a Uzbek today that what is your nationality,answer is 100% Uzbek ,not Turk,same with other Turks except From Turkiye.
Today cannot affect history. If we call ourselves as Uzbek today it does not mean that we are not Turks. We the ones who inherited rich culture and traditions of Turanian (Central Asian) turks.
To my shame and my upset,Milletim Turk was never an answer for central asian Turks along the history(though it appears in literature).
Why are you ashamed? I do not understand. What do you mean by " though it appears in literature"??? If you do not trust historical documents what can I do? Do you want all those people rose from their graves and testify? You are interesting person.
Turks consists several extra-ordinarily and excessively selfish tribes never united each other.This is painfull fact.
Do you want us obey you? Who are you, that we should obey you? Uzbeks to not need to obey anyone. Others obeyed us. We are the children of those glorious Turks of Central Asia.
Tribal nationalism in central asian Turks is fatal.Contributes only split culturally and ethnically each other.
Do you have tribes in Turkey? We do not have tribes in Uzbekistan today, be careful when talking. UZbeks are NATION not tribe. We are the same nation with those Turks in history of Central Asia.
Keep in mind,there are 22 Arab nation in the world,but always a loser when they confront with little Israel(American behind is factor,not an excuse for feilure of Arabs).Arabs much more close in lunguage,culture and history each other than Turks.But,they never united,suspicious,jealous,Iraqis disdains Saudis,Palestian disgraces Beduins,Eygiptian sells Moroccans...ect.
I do not give a shoot neither about arabs nor about jews.
Chinese can be a model,there are more than 10 dialects throughout china,shanghaiese,mandarin and kantonese cannot understand at all each other,not even a word spoken same,they don't have any trouble to call themselves chinese,no one stick into differenses.Tribe was extinct over than 2000 years in china,and they all have family names as long as their history.That is called civilization.
Chineese cannot be a model. They are oppressing hundreds of nations and ethnisities inside their country, just like russia. But they all use mandarin right??? What do you propose? Using anatolian turkish??? Why??? Why should I change my language, language of Ahmad Yassaviy, Mahmud Kashgari, Alisher Navai, Babur and others to the language of ataturk??? Do not teach us for civilization man. Our homeland was craddle of civilization historically. We have hard time now, but we will recover, do not be glad.
Tribal nationalism seems to very obvious profile of Turks.(even the mongols have came under a title)
It is not tribal nationalism, my friend. Uzbeks are nation, do not forget! We are those historically glorious Turks of Central Asia, Turan! What do you mean by "even mongols"? Do you think that you are somewhat higher than mongols?? Why?
That is our tragedy and seems to long last and stay splitted for good.
Turkish(Turkche)spoken by nearly 150 million people in different dialects today,but,it is not a official language of UN.
It is not TurkchE, but TurkchA. Maybe yours is turkche. But UzbekchA, the continuation of Turom turkchasi is not a dialect, do you understand or not???
Why so? answer is simple again,many Uzbek Kardeshimiz in this forum says we are Turks,the name Uzbek invented 1920.Ok,if that is truth and you convinced,Can you dare to go to the city hall tomorrow and register your nationality as Turk?I think you don't.
You are wrong! Completely wrong! I am daring to marry Azeri girl and if Allah will, when we will have a child, we are planning to register him as Turk, neither Uzbek nor Azeri. We are not doing it to imitate to ottoman turks, but we are showing our respect to our own ancestors who were Turks. Maybe in the future, I will use all my knowledge and ability to correct that historical mistake made in 1924! So that our younger people would not have to experience insults from various "uygurs" and "ottomans" and "oguzs"!!!
We say this"agzide sheher almak","demek asan,kilmak kiyin".Why you don't going to rename your nationality?Can you give me a reason?
I am obliged to perort about my personal life to you, but I already shared some of my plans with you.
Soalimge Javabingiz ni saklaymen!!! Soruma jevabinizi bekliyorum!!
I do not know what language was that first part. If you tried to sound Uzbek you did not. It will be like this: Savolmga javobingizni kutaman.

Hemminglarge amanlik tileymen.
I think you are uygur.
Senga hudo insof bersin.


HA--HA--HA--HA
Do you know logic?
Since there was no nation called Uzbek before the year 1920(but it's wrong),how can Mahmut Kashgari and Yusuf Xos Hojip be belonging to Uzbek?
No matter what you say,the fact is that the two great people are ethnic Uyghur even if all the Turks are enjoying their works and fames.

ne fark eder ki her ikiside turk. ha uygur turku ha ozbek turku

[Royal]

Assalomu alaykom hammaylaga.

Koshgariy va Hojib larni ruhlari shunday ayyom kunlarida lekin hrenet qilishvotgan bosa keray oziyam sanlani bir-birlarin bila jiqqa mush bovotganilani bilib...

Ahmad Yassaviy ham shunday ham ozbek i uygur tillarida yozganlar...chunki ular Turkistondan.

Vot i Yassaviy , Koshgariy va Hojiblarni hamni ham otalari Ozbek onalari uygur bogan ekan desayla boldi shu bilan hammasiga javob topiladi...u tamon ham hursand, bu tamon ham hursand, gosht ham pishadi, sih ham kuymiydi.

Hammaylani shu kirib kelayotgan muborak hayit bayramlari bilan tabriklab

Vot i Yassaviy , Koshgariy va Hojiblarni hamni ham otalari Ozbek onalari uygur bogan ekan desayla boldi shu bilan hammasiga javob topiladi...u tamon ham hursand, bu tamon ham hursand, gosht ham pishadi, sih ham kuymiydi.

Hammaylani shu kirib kelayotgan muborak hayit bayramlari bilan tabriklab[/quote]
NO!
Yangilishmang hurmatli Royolbak,Hichqoysasining otasi Uzbek onasi Uyghur bulmaganlar!!Mantiqiga tushmaydiya gaplar bilan haytimizni muboraklamisingizmi boshqa gaplar bor adi qidirsingiz......
Balkim ularning hozirqi navra chavralari ichira bazilari qondoqtir yaqinqi zamonlarda Uzbek otilip qolgandir.lekin ularning ota-bobasi Uyghur-yoghma Turklaridin bulgan.Uzbek degan bu" tavaruk nom" u voqitlarda balkim ularning ota-bobasining uxlaop tushigimi kirmaydiya esa kerak!

Hammingizlarning ruzi haytiga muborak bulsin.sog bulingizlar salomat bulingizlar!

Assalomu alaykom hammaylaga.

Koshgariy va Hojib larni ruhlari shunday ayyom kunlarida lekin hrenet qilishvotgan bosa keray oziyam sanlani bir-birlarin bila jiqqa mush bovotganilani bilib...

Ahmad Yassaviy ham shunday ham ozbek i uygur tillarida yozganlar...chunki ular Turkistondan.

Vot i Yassaviy , Koshgariy va Hojiblarni hamni ham otalari Ozbek onalari uygur bogan ekan desayla boldi shu bilan hammasiga javob topiladi...u tamon ham hursand, bu tamon ham hursand, gosht ham pishadi, sih ham kuymiydi.

Hammaylani shu kirib kelayotgan muborak hayit bayramlari bilan tabriklab
NO!
Yangilishmang hurmatli Royolbak,Hichqoysasining otasi Uzbek onasi Uyghur bulmaganlar!!Mantiqiga tushmaydiya gaplar bilan haytimizni muboraklamisingizmi boshqa gaplar bor adi qidirsingiz......
Balkim ularning hozirqi navra chavralari ichira bazilari qondoqtir yaqinqi zamonlarda Uzbek otilip qolgandir.lekin ularning ota-bobasi Uyghur-yoghma Turklaridin bulgan.Uzbek degan bu" tavaruk nom" u voqitlarda balkim ularning ota-bobasining uxlaop tushigimi kirmaydiya esa kerak!

Hammingizlarning ruzi haytiga muborak bulsin.sog bulingizlar salomat bulingizlar!

Hozirqi davr sanatkorlari ichira Yulduz Oosmonning otasi Qashqarli Uyghur onasi Uzbek bulgan.buningga amdi makul.ha ha ha ha!

[Royal]

Gapirlarina gapirlarin, bu yogi maynavozchilik bop ketdimi a?
Unda yana bittasi Ozbekistonni birinchi prezidenti Yoldosh Ohunboboevni ham otasi Uyghur bogan bosa kerak a?

Gapirlarina gapirlarin, bu yogi maynavozchilik bop ketdimi a?
Unda yana bittasi Ozbekistonni birinchi prezidenti Yoldosh Ohunboboevni ham otasi Uyghur bogan bosa kerak a?
Unami ham tatqiq qilip boqishka arziydi.chunki 1920-yildan ilgari Uzbek deya millat yuq adi amasmi?!bazalarning gapi biyicha ...

Urrraaa!!!

Kelilar endi Uzbekiston emas Uyguriston kilib koya kolamiz vatanimizni!!

[V.E.Lenin]

Bu munazire mening komlumge intayin yaqti. munaziranglarning tehimu otkur ham qiziqarliq, samarilik bolushi uchun, mening taklifim:
1. uzbek millati we uygur millatini tehimu chuqurraq tahlil etingizlar, yani, uzbek millatini tashkant milliti, buhara milliti, andijan milliti... dep ayringlar, uygurlarni esa qashqar milliti, turfan milliti, aqsu milliti ... dep ayringlar, shundaq bolghanida kamina V.E.Lenin we izbasarlirim Stalin, maslakdashim Mao zedong judiyam hursand bolidu. qazaq, qirghiz, tatar...millitini dushmen korungizlar.
2. birgina Mahmud qashqarinila emas, belki barliq turki alimlirining yurtlirini nahiya, qishlaqlarghicha aniqlab chiqingizlar. bu ham yetarli emas, uzbek va uygurlar turmushta ishlitiyatqan barcha gaplarni asli uygurchimu yaki uzbekchimu dep tahlil etinglar, misol: su, hawa, samsa, polo, kawab, doppa, atlas, erkak, chishi...ibaralari uzbekchimu yaki uygurchimu? faqat gap arqili emas, soqush arqili hal atish ham mumkin, qoral-yaraqtin gham qilmangizlar, bunaqa nersilar mende nahayiti kop.
3. uzbek-uygur millati aslida bir qawmdur deb aytkanlarga ishanmangizlar, undaq kishilarni russiya, hitay kabi davlatlarga satib beringizlar.
yuqarqilar kamina Lenin oylighan chare-tadbirlar. yetarli bolmisa ham toluqi bilen ishqa ashurushungizlarga tilakdashmen ham 100fayiz ishinimen. chunki, 1920-yillarda ham sizlar mushu tariqida bizlarga fayda-manpa'atlarni yetkuzgan idingizlar.
Hayr, kelejak dunyada tehimu kop turk millatlarining barliqqa kelishini tilab qalguchi: V.E.Lenin

[bittasi]

V.E.Lenin: 8dc6d884,

Shu san etishmeturodingda. O'zi hamma leninlar urush qo'zg'edi har doim. Endi hamma turkiylar birlashib yarim metrlik Uyguristonni ozod qilish uchun Chinaga urush elon qilishimiz qoluvdi.

Bu munazire mening komlumge intayin yaqti. munaziranglarning tehimu otkur ham qiziqarliq, samarilik bolushi uchun, mening taklifim:
1. uzbek millati we uygur millatini tehimu chuqurraq tahlil etingizlar, yani, uzbek millatini tashkant milliti, buhara milliti, andijan milliti... dep ayringlar, uygurlarni esa qashqar milliti, turfan milliti, aqsu milliti ... dep ayringlar, shundaq bolghanida kamina V.E.Lenin we izbasarlirim Stalin, maslakdashim Mao zedong judiyam hursand bolidu. qazaq, qirghiz, tatar...millitini dushmen korungizlar.
2. birgina Mahmud qashqarinila emas, belki barliq turki alimlirining yurtlirini nahiya, qishlaqlarghicha aniqlab chiqingizlar. bu ham yetarli emas, uzbek va uygurlar turmushta ishlitiyatqan barcha gaplarni asli uygurchimu yaki uzbekchimu dep tahlil etinglar, misol: su, hawa, samsa, polo, kawab, doppa, atlas, erkak, chishi...ibaralari uzbekchimu yaki uygurchimu? faqat gap arqili emas, soqush arqili hal atish ham mumkin, qoral-yaraqtin gham qilmangizlar, bunaqa nersilar mende nahayiti kop.
3. uzbek-uygur millati aslida bir qawmdur deb aytkanlarga ishanmangizlar, undaq kishilarni russiya, hitay kabi davlatlarga satib beringizlar.
yuqarqilar kamina Lenin oylighan chare-tadbirlar. yetarli bolmisa ham toluqi bilen ishqa ashurushungizlarga tilakdashmen ham 100fayiz ishinimen. chunki, 1920-yillarda ham sizlar mushu tariqida bizlarga fayda-manpa'atlarni yetkuzgan idingizlar.
Hayr, kelejak dunyada tehimu kop turk millatlarining barliqqa kelishini tilab qalguchi: V.E.Lenin
Long live V.e.Lenin.What a good comment.Uygurlar yekin kelechekte Turpanlik(turpan-kumul),Taranchi(gulja),Merkezlik(urumchi rayoni) ve Alte sheherlik,Minkaohan(Uygur who attends chinese school and with splitted culture,language with their people)deyilgen milletlerge ayrilmak haletinde ketip barar.Turkiy milletge yengiden 3-4millet koshulush aldida turar.

Bu munazire mening komlumge intayin yaqti. munaziranglarning tehimu otkur ham qiziqarliq, samarilik bolushi uchun, mening taklifim:
1. uzbek millati we uygur millatini tehimu chuqurraq tahlil etingizlar, yani, uzbek millatini tashkant milliti, buhara milliti, andijan milliti... dep ayringlar, uygurlarni esa qashqar milliti, turfan milliti, aqsu milliti ... dep ayringlar, shundaq bolghanida kamina V.E.Lenin we izbasarlirim Stalin, maslakdashim Mao zedong judiyam hursand bolidu. qazaq, qirghiz, tatar...millitini dushmen korungizlar.
2. birgina Mahmud qashqarinila emas, belki barliq turki alimlirining yurtlirini nahiya, qishlaqlarghicha aniqlab chiqingizlar. bu ham yetarli emas, uzbek va uygurlar turmushta ishlitiyatqan barcha gaplarni asli uygurchimu yaki uzbekchimu dep tahlil etinglar, misol: su, hawa, samsa, polo, kawab, doppa, atlas, erkak, chishi...ibaralari uzbekchimu yaki uygurchimu? faqat gap arqili emas, soqush arqili hal atish ham mumkin, qoral-yaraqtin gham qilmangizlar, bunaqa nersilar mende nahayiti kop.
3. uzbek-uygur millati aslida bir qawmdur deb aytkanlarga ishanmangizlar, undaq kishilarni russiya, hitay kabi davlatlarga satib beringizlar.
yuqarqilar kamina Lenin oylighan chare-tadbirlar. yetarli bolmisa ham toluqi bilen ishqa ashurushungizlarga tilakdashmen ham 100fayiz ishinimen. chunki, 1920-yillarda ham sizlar mushu tariqida bizlarga fayda-manpa'atlarni yetkuzgan idingizlar.
Hayr, kelejak dunyada tehimu kop turk millatlarining barliqqa kelishini tilab qalguchi: V.E.Lenin
Long live V.e.Lenin.What a good comment.Uygurlar yekin kelechekte Turpanlik(turpan-kumul),Taranchi(gulja),Merkezlik(urumchi rayoni) ve Alte sheherlik,Minkaohan(Uygur who attends chinese school and with splitted culture,language with their people)deyilgen milletlerge ayrilmak haletinde ketip barar.Turkiy milletge yengiden 3-4millet koshulush aldida turar.

Siz bu orqali nema demakchi?
Uzbeklarmi Uyghurlardin oyralip oyrim bir millat bulip ketkan,amdi qolgan Uyghurlarmi boshqa millatlarga oyralip ketadi,dimakchimi?
Yuqsi!
sizning telba niyatlaringiz amalga oshmagay?yetar emdi,bu bulinishlar!!!!

Siz bu orqali nema demakchi?
Uzbeklarmi Uyghurlardin oyralip oyrim bir millat bulip ketkan,amdi qolgan Uyghurlarmi boshqa millatlarga oyralip ketadi,dimakchimi?
Yuqsi!
sizning telba niyatlaringiz amalga oshmagay?yetar emdi,bu bulinishlar!!!!

Turk milletleri tarihtan bulinip parchelenip kelgen,bundan keyin hem shunda bolur.Turkler kum-terik kibi chechilgan,omluktan agiz achmak mushkuldur.Arasida birlik yok,tarih buninga ispat,kelechek buninga shahit bolur.

[Royal]

Hudo saqlasin

ridiculous comments, guys
kashghari and has hajip are, no doubt, firstly uyghur, secondly turk (if you agree that you uzbeks are also turks). It is even more ridiculous that kirghizs say Has Hajip is kirghiz.
The same goes for nawai, because the world knows that there are plenty of facts prove Nizamidin, father of nawai, is an ethnic uyghur.

but, nomatter anything, we should see our common aspects. nowadays cooperation between turkic nations is strongly needed, it's the common feelings among ordinary people.

ridiculous comments, guys
kashghari and has hajip are, no doubt, firstly uyghur, secondly turk (if you agree that you uzbeks are also turks). It is even more ridiculous that kirghizs say Has Hajip is kirghiz.
The same goes for nawai, because the world knows that there are plenty of facts prove Nizamidin, father of nawai, is an ethnic uyghur.

but, nomatter anything, we should see our common aspects. nowadays cooperation between turkic nations is strongly needed, it's the common feelings among ordinary people.

That is right!
I agree with you.

ridiculous comments, guys
kashghari and has hajip are, no doubt, firstly uyghur, secondly turk (if you agree that you uzbeks are also turks). It is even more ridiculous that kirghizs say Has Hajip is kirghiz.
The same goes for nawai, because the world knows that there are plenty of facts prove Nizamidin, father of nawai, is an ethnic uyghur.

but, nomatter anything, we should see our common aspects. nowadays cooperation between turkic nations is strongly needed, it's the common feelings among ordinary people.

[Free]

Ularning kaysi millatdan bugani muhim emas.Muhimi ularning bizga urgtagan haqiqatlaridir.

[Dunyokezganqalandar]

Free, to'ppa to'g'ri nima keragi bor u bu millatdan bunisi bu millatdan deb?!
o'sha odamlar faqat o'zini millatida emas butun odamzodga deb shu narsalarni yozib qoldirishgan

[Royal]

dunyokezganqalandar
Hop deylik unisiyam bunisiyam Ozbek bolsin deylik, lekin qaerda ? qaysi kochada turgan deb savol tashlansa manimcha boshlanadi dahanaki jang: bizani kochadan u bratan deb a?

[Dunyokezganqalandar]

Royal, davay kimbu yerda Bolasog'unlkdan?
balki bir hl mahallada katta o'lib o'shatta choyhonada o'tirganlar ham bordir?! :P

Who can tell me!
go ask your mama, maybe she tell you!

Who can tell me!
go ask your mama, maybe she tell you!

[Shodbek]

It's no use for us to argue about that.What's important is that ozbek and Uyghur are just lbrothers.We all need to make great efforts to develop our own nation culturally,financially,etc..

[Yelken]

I came across this web and this forum by accident. I feel I'm lucky knowing that as there is being some good discussions here.

I don't wanna talk more my own view about Uyghurs and Uzbeks as many people have different, even oppiste opinions about this issue. What I'm mostly concerned is not the past, but future. As amny nations in the world becoming united in today's world, oppositle the Turks are dividing and seperating from each other. For example in China, the main reace is Chinese. But who cares about its purity and history? every Chinese believes himself as a Han chinses nationality, despite the fact that his language is completely different from the mandarin chinese, because his identity is printed in his ID card as Han Zu, han Chinese, and his native language is considered as a local dialect. I talked to one guy from a northeastern province of china. He says his local dialect is actually not a dialect, but a distinct language. When he wants to write something, he firstly translate what he thinks into mandarin chines, then put them down. The only reason why he is doing so is they don't have their alphabet, and got great influence from the han chinese. Let's look at the current situations of Turkic nations in the world. We are living seperately from each other, and cultural communication is being a very difficult thing. Just take an example of Uzbeks and Uyghurs, as I see, these two nations have very close language, culture, relations in history. People of these two nations don't have problems in conversation, but what about reading?
Why can't we make it benefitial for both of us?
I didn't think there would be such severe literal attacks to each other among Uzbeks and Uyghurs. The Uzbeks in E Turkistan is have same social positions as uyghurs have, and they have a very good cooperation in amny occasion. Uyghurs never look at them as they are a different race. But they believe these two nations are brothers. I don't know about Uyghurs in Uzbekstan. I assume they don't speak Uyghur and study in Uzbek schools as the Uzbeks do the same in E Turkistan, maybe because the cultural similarities of these two peoples.
The Uzbek singers are very welcome in e turkistan, you can hear uzbek songs in streets of Urumchi. I'm very glad of its being that , because the at least can show the cultural hormony in certain situations. I hope I will see the books from Uzbekstan in the streets of Urumchi as I can see the cassetes of Uzbek singers. But how can it be done? Uzbeks can't read Uyghur and Uyghurs as well, bet they do understand each other. Why don't we make this possible in future?

[Tangriberdi]

Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf Has Hajib are two important Turkish people. No matters to which tribal organization they belong.
Tribalism, what you demonstrate in your writings is just tribalism, you cannot go further than it.
What is important is not that they are either Uzbek or Uyghur. Whether Uzbek or Uyghur they contributed much to Turkishness not to Uyghurness or Uzbekness.
They always referred themselves as Turks.
And please quit this extravagant tribal pride. Just for a while forget about the tribal organization you belong to, and try to remember what nation you belong to. And be proud of it. Be proud of being Turks(Turkey Turks are out of Question) I mean you are historically real descendants of Original Turks. Either from Uzbek tribal organizations or from Uyghur Tribal Organizations. What unites you is Turkishness. Those two great TURKISH AKSAKALS should be a common source of pride and a gateway to sense of integrity for you. They were/are to be pioneers of Turkic unifications among you not a debate of separation.
UZBEK AND UYGUR ARE BROTHERS. THEY ARE NOT DERIVATIVES OF EACH OTHER. THEY ARE BROTHERS BORN ONLY BY ONE MOTHER AND FATHER.
mother's name is Altay
father's name is Turk
chidrens's name are: Uyghur Kirghiz, Kazakh, Uzbek, Turkmen, Tatar, Bashkir, Chuvash, Yakut, Azerbaijani, Anatolian, Cypriot, Balkan
Family name of all is TURK
That is it.
So MahMUD KASHGARI AND YUSUF HAS HAJIB ARE BOTH UZBEK AND UYGHUR AND ARE NOT UZBEK OR UYGHUR BUT TURK
abandon tribal conflicts be a nation. Turkish nation. Or be eaten by Russians and the Chinese.

[Yelken]

I really very aprrociate Tangriberdi's view on this point. The tribal identity of some great scholars in history is not so important. Today we have the discussion on Mahmud Kashigari and Yusuf Has Hajib, but what about tomorrow? Maybe we will fight with each other to prove that Navoi/Newai was Uyghur or Uzbek. It doesn't worth to struggle. But what we shouldn't forget is his important works for our literature. Anyway they all did many great achievments not for letting us to fight with eah other for the pride, but for us to learn something, to learn to be MAN. What have we done? Now what we're doing is nothing. We're not doing something we can be proud of.

I hope we will make another debate on whether we can be united on literature, culture, broadcasting.... in many areas again. I hope somebody will give better suggession. That will be both benifitial for both two nations, as these two have very close relationship. Right?

Please put your own views...

[uyghurmen]

How can Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf Has Hajib be Uzebk?
Bu buyuk zatlarning rohi qorunup ketti!!!
emdi erte-ogun putun uyghurlaning hemmesini uzbek dep turiwalamdu neme bular?
bu guylarningghu zadi niyeti durust emes.
aljip qalghan exmeq munapiqlar!!!

[kurshad]

How can Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf Has Hajib be Uzebk?
Bu buyuk zatlarning rohi qorunup ketti!!!
emdi erte-ogun putun uyghurlaning hemmesini uzbek dep turiwalamdu neme bular?
bu guylarningghu zadi niyeti durust emes.
aljip qalghan exmeq munapiqlar!!!

Sakin olunuz aziz biraderim ;) Tamam, bu zatlarnin uyghur oldugunu kabul ettemiz, siz kizmayiniz.

[Tabriz_Han]

These stupid arguments will all be solved once we realise, Kashgari and Yusuf Has Hajik were as they put it "Turks", they are all of ours as we are all Turks, they are not Ozbeks or Uygurs they are Ozbeks, Uygurs, Kazaks, Turkmens they are Turks.

Read this.



different rulers of Turkic ethnicity that greatly contributed to the development of human civilization. If today's Turkic leaders realize this and incorporate it into their identity, they would have made a big step towards a common Turkic identity. A universal history textbook about the Turks taught at high-schools and colleges throughout Turkic countries would provide such an opportunity. The realization of the achievements of the Turkic world combined, as opposed to just one individual Turkic group, would add to their pride, self-respect, and confidence -all products of an ideology and factors of a larger identity. Instead of praising their own history and historic figures, both of which are at times in conflict with the claims of other groups, each individual Turkic nation could benefit from a unified history -significant historic events and historic figures, all of whom belong to the joint history. Instead of appropriating certain portions of the Turkic legacy and history as theirs, individual Turkic groups could strengthen bonds among themselves by promoting a common Turkic legacy. For example, instead of making the 14th century mega-ruler Amir Timur or the founder of the Great Moghul Empire in India Babur-Shakh an Uzbek, making them -as well as Farabi, Abay, Nizami, al-Bukhari, and Fuzuli- Turkic would enrich the Turkic legacy and contribute to strengthening of a Turkic identity and ideology. This would also provide a more accurate history and would put an end to endless and senseless historic arguments among scholars and citizens of various Turkic groups. Such arguments only contribute to an ideological divide. In this regard, the Sovietization experience would be useful to learn from. Soviet ideology incorporated every success story during its existence into the common Soviet history and left the pre-Soviet period to its rightful owners. For example, Uzbeks living in the Soviet Union could call the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin their cosmonaut or could claim the Olympic victories of many non-Uzbek, Soviet athletes as theirs. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, though, the "copyrights" on these achievements have expired. The only Turkic cosmonaut, Salizhan Sharipov, can hardly be called Uzbek or Kyrgyz. Although he was born in Kyrgyzstan to an Uzbek family, he represents Russia during his missions and speaks Russian better than Uzbek or Kyrgyz. Calling him a Turkic cosmonaut would make all Turkic groups proud of him and would spare many Uzbek and Kyrgyz fans from ceaseless arguments. But while the Soviet identity, imposed on nations with different religious background, language, culture and history, was artificial, the Turkic identity has had a centuries-old history. Many Turkic kingdoms and rulers referred to themselves as Turks including Amir Temur, especially in their struggle against Persians. The geographic terms of Turan and Turkistan were replaced with the term "Central Asia" as the powerful Soviet ideology and identity emerged, just as Chinese ideology attempts to replace the term "East Turkistan" with Xinjiang or Sinkiang, which Uyghurs find very insulting. To awaken the Turkic identity, the terms so sacred to this very identity must be revived by the Turkic intelligentsia - writers, journalists, poets, and thinkers. The historic terms "Turkistan" and "Turan" would give Turkic peoples the sense of belonging to the renowned Turkic legacy. The more frequently they are used today to mean the Turkic world, the sooner its people will become accustomed to them and will find that bridge between who they are (Turks or Turkic peoples) and where they come from (Turan/Turkistan - the Land of Turks). In order to instill a stronger Turkic identity in modern day Turkic peoples, the achievements of the past, the present potential, and a larger picture for the future should be studied, analyzed, combined, and promoted among the Turkic peoples. If they realize and are taught their historical achievements and the potential geopolitical strength they possess, they would be likely to strive for that kind of an identity. Turks have dominated Eurasia for nearly a millennium, expanding their territories through various powerful kingdoms -the Huns, the Timurids, the Ottomans, the Great Moghul Empire. Turks and those earlier ethnic groups that existed in current Turkic territories and were later assimilated into Turkic groups contributed many discoveries to world science in algebra and mathematics (Al-Kwarizmi and Biruni), astronomy (Ulughbek), medicine (Avicenna) and others. Today the combined population of the Turkic peoples in the world is between 180 to 200 million. Economically, they possess large oil (Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan) and gas reserves (Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan) and are located conveniently to transport and transit natural resources to Europe, China, Pakistan and India. All this can be claimed fully by someone who acknowledges his or her Turkic identity and not just current national identity. Ideology is reinforced by success. The Turkic peoples should play a larger role in religious affairs worldwide realizing that it was the Turks who spread Islam westward and it was the theologians from their part of the world -Imam al-Bukhari, Baha-ud-Din Naqshbandi, Abu-Nasr al-Farabi, Rumi, and Hakim at-Termizi who greatly contributed to Islamic philosophy. Areas dominated by Turkic kingdoms have practiced religious tolerance and ethnic diversity. Whether in the Golden Horde, the Timurid kingdoms, the Ottoman Empire, or the Great Moghul Empire in India, non-Muslims and non-Turks were always comfortable with preserving their identity and religion.

http://www.turkishpolicy.com/default..._2006_ruzaliev (http://www.turkishpolicy.com/default.asp?show=winter_2006_ruzaliev)

[erkinturk]

Bu feodal kafalarin degismesi bir zarurettir.
Biz Turklerin elinden zaten bir avuc olan Turkluk bilincine sahip cikmis yuce insanlarin alinmaya calisilmasi demektir
Birlesmeye,birlestirmeye calismak varken emperyalizme hizmet eden dangalaklar,,
Birakin herkez ovuncunu gururunu yasasin!

[Rustam12]

How can Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf Has Hajib be Uzebk?
Bu buyuk zatlarning rohi qorunup ketti!!!
emdi erte-ogun putun uyghurlaning hemmesini uzbek dep turiwalamdu neme bular?
bu guylarningghu zadi niyeti durust emes.
aljip qalghan exmeq munapiqlar!!!

Uygurmen; Ozingizga keling;
nimu diwatrganigizden haberingiz barmu? Bu iki buyu zat yashap otken paytlar Ozbek Uygur ayrimibolmegen;
Ozbek minen uygur yegane millatdur; shuning uchun bundeyin bi'mana savollarga kuyunup otirmeng

[tilivay]

there were no such thing as "UZBEK" those days! those scholars are descandants from the Uyghur Empire,which collapsed after the Kyrgyz invasion, who set up a kingdom of Karakhans(Karakhanids) with the capital in Kashgar.

[erkinturk]

Bu guzel yazinin tekrar tekrar okunmasi gerek!
burada Turk dusmani devletlerin ajanlari karartma ve bozgunculuk yaparken bilinmesi gereken budur!
Bu "Uyghurmen" denen kisi acaba Uyghur'mu?
hic sanmiyorum!


Mahmud Kashgari and Yusuf Has Hajib are two important Turkish people. No matters to which tribal organization they belong.
Tribalism, what you demonstrate in your writings is just tribalism, you cannot go further than it.
What is important is not that they are either Uzbek or Uyghur. Whether Uzbek or Uyghur they contributed much to Turkishness not to Uyghurness or Uzbekness.
They always referred themselves as Turks.
And please quit this extravagant tribal pride. Just for a while forget about the tribal organization you belong to, and try to remember what nation you belong to. And be proud of it. Be proud of being Turks(Turkey Turks are out of Question) I mean you are historically real descendants of Original Turks. Either from Uzbek tribal organizations or from Uyghur Tribal Organizations. What unites you is Turkishness. Those two great TURKISH AKSAKALS should be a common source of pride and a gateway to sense of integrity for you. They were/are to be pioneers of Turkic unifications among you not a debate of separation.
UZBEK AND UYGUR ARE BROTHERS. THEY ARE NOT DERIVATIVES OF EACH OTHER. THEY ARE BROTHERS BORN ONLY BY ONE MOTHER AND FATHER.
mother's name is Altay
father's name is Turk
chidrens's name are: Uyghur Kirghiz, Kazakh, Uzbek, Turkmen, Tatar, Bashkir, Chuvash, Yakut, Azerbaijani, Anatolian, Cypriot, Balkan
Family name of all is TURK
That is it.
So MahMUD KASHGARI AND YUSUF HAS HAJIB ARE BOTH UZBEK AND UYGHUR AND ARE NOT UZBEK OR UYGHUR BUT TURK
abandon tribal conflicts be a nation. Turkish nation. Or be eaten by Russians and the Chinese.

[Arslanakhun]

тут обсуждается принадлежность махмуда кашгарского и юсуфа баласагунского к современным уйгурам или узбекам, я выскажу точку зрения мурата каримовича хамраева, которого вы наверное знаете он у вас в свое время работал. по его мнению народ караханидов(имеется ввиду т.н. титульная нация, хотя как вы знаете там проживали практически все тюркские племена, о которых и писал махмуд) а именно к нему принадлежали оба субъекта, в равной степени являются предками современных узбеков и уйгуров, но учитывая то что махмуд родился близ кашгара, а юсуф где-то на территории современной киргизии, то справедливо было бы отнести махмуда к прауйгурам(потому что впоследствии жителям кашгарии пришлось стать уйгурами, а не узбеками) а юсуфа либо к прауйгурам либо к праузбекам. отмеченное родство только в плане генов, в плане же языка нет никаких разграничений. да они говорили на языке кагана, на языке на котором говорили прауйгуры и праузбеки караханидов, но они себя считали тюрками, это было первое тюркское (в современном значении этого слова, потому что тюрки орхона были уничтожены древнимим уйгурами, басмылами и карлуками) государство в котором была тюркская - объдиняющая всех тюрков идеология(огузнаме), один из диалектов этого великого языка был объявлен каганским языком, на котором все писали и противодействовали гегемонии персидского языка, прауйгуры и праузбеки караханидов разделились на отдельные народы в Xiv-xv вв., и после алишера наваий все еще единая чагатайская литература разделяется на 2 ветви.
поэтому всё что было до наваий включая его самого является нашим общим узбеко-уйгурским достоянием, а после него уже правомерно говорить о самостоятельных народах.
мои высказывания по поводу принадлежности махмуда и юсуфа к уйгурам или узбекам, являются лишь предположением высказанным муратом хамраевым потому что даже он не привел никаких доказательств в пользу своего довода. давайте не будем беспокоить их дух, они были истинными патриотами своего государства имя которому караханиды, называли они себя гордым именем тюрк, не узбек и и не уйгур, когда уйгур кашгарии говорит что махмуд уйгур он прав действительно они были отделением некогда единого караханидского государства, когда узбек говорит что он узбек он тоже прав его предки тоже были отделением этого же государства. так зачем спорить по вопросу на который не найти ответа? :)
Ps
прауйгуры - титульный народ караханидов, проживавший на территории современного суар
праузбеки - титульный народ караханидов, проживавший на территории современного узбекистана.
я решил писать на русском потому что английский я знаю не очень хорошо, а на уйгурском вы меня вряд ли поймете, или будете оскорблены то что я на узбекском форуме пишу на уйгурском, поэтому пишу на русском.