View Full Version : Lonely Planet says so?
Uzbektourism
09-16-2001, 01:56 PM
Hi guys,
Lonely planet says so: please see all links and your comments.
Here is a link!
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/central_asia/uzbekistan/
Regards,
Vremmenne ispol'nyayushiy ob'yazannosti Uzbektourisma.
I didn't really understand the question? What does it say? Plz, be specific.
Comments:
Generally good w-site for indidual travellers to UZB but some info. is misleading and some addit. info. could be added.
Uzbektourism really sacks, that's true :( . But there are more problems concerning tourism in UZB, better not to start speaking about it: to start as a tour operator you must have a licence (from tour operators school), to start a tourism business you have to buy a licence from Uzbektourism just to name some.
The potential of tourism industry in Uzbekistan is great but I think we cannot utilize it very soon. This is because we have in UZB rate high in all the risks which influence the consumer behaviour and the decision process in buying tourism products: economic, physical, performance and psychological.
Nasl
chuvak
09-16-2001, 03:43 PM
GDP: US$59.2 billion
GDP per head: US$2,500
Waxaaaaaaaaa, eto che mechtiiii.. nam takogo i ne svetit v blizaishie neskolko 5 letok..
Me
PS: dyrnoi source
Nasl (Sep 16, 2001 14:34):
Uzbektourism really sacks, that's true :( . But there are more problems concerning tourism in UZB, better not to start speaking about it: to start as a tour operator you must have a licence (from tour operators school), to start a tourism business you have to buy a licence from Uzbektourism just to name some.
Nasl
Nasl,
the problem is not in Uzbektourism, in fact one would be surprised by finding how much power Uzbektourism pocesses now. Most of the business is gone to hands of private companies/firms such as Sitara, CATS, SamBuh tours and etc. Uzbektourism is now just Ministry of Tourism, which gains no profit from receiving or sending tourists.
Of course you need to have some kind of licence to start any business. Especially in tourism, where tourists/customers are easily cheated. If licence was nonsence or too expensive, where did all this small companies get from. The idea of selling licences is viable because tourism market of Uzbekistan is dominated by French, German, Malaysian companies. Would you allow foreign company to your market without selling it a licence?...
The problem is the same kind of problem with "Uzbekistan airwaves". And every single hotel, every single restaurant should be reconsidered in service standards in order to solve problem. Not only Uzbektourism but our government also can't solve this problem at the moment.
Cute,
What do you mean by saying that " tourism market of Uzbekistan is dominated by French, German, Malaysian companies" ? Do they operate in incoming or outgoing?
(or domestic tourism :) ). BTW, do you know what is the size of tourism industry in UZB?
>Would you allow foreign company to your market >without selling it a licence?...
I didn't understand your question. And it is not my problem wether they have a license or not; let the government bodies to think about it. What I know is, when I operate a travel firm I will be ready for any kind of competition because I have to.
>Of course you need to have some kind of licence to >start any business.
Look, in other forms of serious businesses you just open a firm and pay some fees. But when you want to start a business as a tour operator you should pay additional money (around US $ 2,000 I heard). And you or someone you want to hire must go through three month training in Uzbektourism's tour operators' school and of course pay also some money. (I am not sure but I think they have their only school in Tashkent, Buyuk Ipak Yo'li street?).
>Especially in tourism, where tourists/customers are >easily cheated.
You mean, with a license from Uzbektourism they will not cheat, hehe.
>If licence was nonsence or too expensive, where did >all this small companies get from.
First of all, do you what is the size of Uzbekistan's tourism industry? Secondly, do you think that Sitara, CATS, SamBuh are so big companies that they rule this industry? CATS has a "turnover of approximately US$ 1,2 million each year" (see http://www.catsuzbekistan.com/profile/profile.html).
These are really small companies but there could be zealons of smaller companies which could do a lot together for uzbek economy and their families. They cannot afford it for US $ 2, 000. A friend of mine who holds MA from a foreign university couldn't afford it even though he sees good opportunities for himself in this business.
Uzbektourism is not like a Ministry - it is also a big company with huge assets.
I know a lot about German Tourism Industry and, I can say I know what should be done to develop tourism industry in UZB but I am sceptical that it can be done in near future?
Look man I study tourism management and I know what I'm talking about.
When I told market is dominated by foreign companiesI really meant that. For example Sitara is a Canadian company, and Cats as well is foreign. I'm talking about inbound tourism, which is of great importance.
I have an idea of size of tourism industry, which is small but posesses a lot potential, in fact it is estimated that even in this undeveloped form (I mean nowadays) it could receive 8 times more tourists than it does now.
Do you know how much money do tour operators get, do you think that 2000 $ is a big money. Oh man if you even want to open small fast food corner you will spend much higher proportion of money.
didn't say that Sitara,CATS and SamBuh rule industry but there are tens of such small companies which do rule industry. Not Uzbektourism.
And more Uzbektourism is not like a Ministry . IT IS A MINISTRY OF TOURISM OF UZBEKISTAN.
If you have any doubts about that - I will tell you that I had practice period in Uzbektourism when I went back for summer. And familiar with what Uzbektourism is.
Well yes Uzbektourism has some assets, mostly hotels. But that does not mean that Uzbektourism is a big company that has hotels.Because hotels are mostly GOVERNMENT'S. Profit goes directly to budget.
Cute,
that's good what you say. Just can you give a structure of Uzbektourism and tell us how big the uzbek tourism market in money terms. I tell you that uzbektourism is like a ministry but it is not a ministry, that's for sure.
You think, I didn't know where CATS come from when giving you the link to its web-site? Just wanted to know how much you know about tourism industry. Where do you study and what exactly is the name of the program?
And tell me, how we can know how much earnings we get from tourism industry in a fiscal year? How we can calculate that? (As you see, I am not interested in arrivals every stupid person can easily find out that but the smart person will consider only visitors living the country).
You say you study (tourism) management. Do you also know the meaning of the word management? When you are ready to give out US $ 2, 000 for nothing... . Do you think it's fair to take this money from people who want to do business in tourism when others do no pay that? Look, I can give you a lot of examples that where this money could be invested by small businesspeople if not simply taken away by government. When you are starting a business you don't earn anything, you just invest and invest and the need for capital is enormous. That time US $ 2, 000 is really big money? Of course not for you because as I understand it you will work for government and will help it to kill the endeavours of the small businessmen just before they start it.
The same strategy is employed by Uzbektourism. Do you know how experts of tourism abroad call this funny organisation "The ministry which doesn't want that tourists come to UZB" , of course they say it in harsher tones.
"that's good what you say. Just can you give a structure of Uzbektourism and tell us how big the uzbek tourism market in money terms. I tell you that uzbektourism is like a ministry but it is not a ministry, that's for sure."
Although "uzbektourism" is not called a ministry for sure it counts as a ministry. In country where tourism doesn't play a gret role tourism is even not counted as an industry. therefore the term ministry of tourism is arguable expression. However with Uzbekistan and Uzbektourism the case is different. Because in Soviets period whole tourism was controlled by Uzbektourism (in Uzbekistan). after independence it is being decentralised and because of this now we can see small foreign companies. Uzbektourism still has some assets in forms of hotels, I would say shitty hotels like "Chorsu" "Sayohat" "Nukus" which can not be even rated as a 3 star hotels. They don't do much profit, and normally do not serve foreign tourists. No investment to upgrade them, same as the other industries of Uzbekistan. But you can blame nobody for that, it just the way it is, Intercontinental would build their own hotel rather then upgrading old building, which doesn't have places for parking, pools and other facilities.
"You think, I didn't know where CATS come from when giving you the link to its web-site? Just wanted to know how much you know about tourism industry. Where do you study and what exactly is the name of the program?"
I study Bsc in International Hospitality and Tourism management in the University of Surrey.
"And tell me, how we can know how much earnings we get from tourism industry in a fiscal year? How we can calculate that? (As you see, I am not interested in arrivals every stupid person can easily find out that but the smart person will consider only visitors living the country)."
Yes this is a problem. It is difficult to find information of that kind, but it doesn't mean that there is no information. Simply that kind of information is not published, mostly because there is no strong need for this. I mean nobody really demands it. Uzbektourism has that kind of information, and this information is delivered mostly to the embassys when it is asked. However there are some studies conducted on tourism of Uzbekistan by foreign authars, but you can hardly find them.
"You say you study (tourism) management. Do you also know the meaning of the word management? When you are ready to give out US $ 2, 000 for nothing... . Do you think it's fair to take this money from people who want to do business in tourism when others do no pay that?"
" Look, I can give you a lot of examples that where this money could be invested by small businesspeople if not simply taken away by government. "
Of course in Uzbekistan $2000 could be big money for a simple family, but for sure there are people who can afford it. May be it is unfair, but this is the way how whole system works in Uzbekistan.
Yes you can say they are simply taking away money, but in legal terms they are selling you their business. Because previously they did what you now want to do. Receiving tourists, and doing business. Of course these 2000 are not being used properly but it is their business what to do with them.
But there is one arguable point, local businessmen are being pushed away from tourism in Uzbekistan, don't know the reason why. If people are willing to invest why shouldn't they have the right to do so?
"When you are starting a business you don't earn anything, you just invest and invest and the need for capital is enormous. That time US $ 2, 000 is really big money? Of course not for you because as I understand it you will work for government and will help it to kill the endeavours of the small businessmen just before they start it".
Well I'm not too ambitious of working for government on salary of 20000 sums (Salary of leading expert in international relations department "Uzbektourism").
2000$ is nothing for businessmen even in Uzbekistan.You told about enormous capital investment and you are right. Banks won't give people credits, and you are not secured from just loosing this enormous investment in 1 month.
I tried to find out the costs for opening and maintaining small fast-food "oshhona" in the streets. Which you know do shashliks, sell coke, ice-cream and hot-dogs.
this is just small corner which will be open only in dry seosons, you can't use it in winter and when it rains. (Tepasi ochiq, ko'chada)
So to open such a thing
approximately 15 tables and a bar desk, refrigerator for coke, ice cream, some umbrella shaped covers above the tables and etc. for 4000$!!!
+ some kind of licence
+ bribery to get it
+ occasionally for tax workers
And plus to that you need to pay a 2mln sums for the rent of the land, not to government but to the person who helped you to get the land using his contacts (in fact it is his land). And still you will do quite normal profit.
Of course those prices are in Tashkent
"The same strategy is employed by Uzbektourism. Do you know how experts of tourism abroad call this funny organisation "The ministry which doesn't want that tourists come to UZB" , of course they say it in harsher tones"
It is not that they do not want tourists to come to Uzbekistan, they just don't know how to work, do marketing and promotion. In fact there is no much benefit for them to do it. It is government Company (Ministry) and even if they achieve some success they wo'nt be rewarded properly for that.
Cute,
you said you had a "practice period" i.e. internship in Uzbektourism.
This is the hp of your company:
http://www.uzbektourism.uz/
Uzbektourism has more than 160 buildings in its assets.
And the earnings of uzbek tourism industry for the last year is US $ 200 Mio.
Yes the website sux, and nobody wants to make it different. And this is not my company, I didn't like the management as well. When my friend wanted to do website for Uzbektourism for the company they just expressed indifference. Well as for the earnings I admit I'm not that informed on statistics. Because so far I just didn't need them, but will need for my dissertation.
I went thru your study program at Surrey. Not bad, but it is more hospitality mgmt rather than tourism. There is almost nothing technical except Strategy and Tactics for IT. But I think you can do best about it, you have good opportunities there.
"Do you know how much money do tour operators get?"
It was yr question. Can u tell, how much they get and how they get it in UZB? And do u have info. as to how strong mafia is involved in the business?
Yes my program is more hospitality then tourism, restaurants hotels. (service sector business management). http://www.smsss.surrey.ac.uk/StudyProgrammes/UG/BScIHTM.html
But it is rated as the best in uk (Guardian)
As for the tour operators, in Uzbekistan tour operators are persons who organise tours (strangely mostly not firms). Don't know exactly how much they get paid, but let's assume that they get 10% comission from a 1000$ package. 10 tourists would already make him 1000$. Not bad at all.
One of my friend works as a guide and have studied in the course that you have mentioned above, for three months. Even he does good money by just accompanying tourists to Samarkand, Bukhara, Khiva.
Mafia is everywhere, but don't clearly know about tourism, probably it is there.
For example nowadays there are tens of B&B accommodations in Uzbekistan. It is believed that they are owned by few businessmen. Occupancy rates are very high. If one businessmen has more than one B&B it means it's like a brand company. And it shouldn't be counted as small enterprise, they should pay higher rates of taxes. as you know there are priviliges for small enterprises, they pay half of the income tax. But nobody does investigate it or just can not.
Do you know what kind of problems travel agencies get from tour oprators nowadays which threaten their existance?
And do you know who the unsatisfied customers complain to, in case when a performance failure occured?
And who pay the money back (part of the money paid for the package) and do they obliged by law to pay it?
I think tour operators are all firms which do business for profit. What do you mean by saying "strangely mostly not firms" ?
What do you think should we in UZB concentrate on western tourists or tourist from the orient? And why?
What do you think about negative influence of tourists to the values that uzbek people have?
Nowadays problems in the industry are mostly because of multi-national big companies (tour operators). They might effect small agencies, and they might effect the whoule country, where tourism is of great importance.
Problems that travel agencies experience now, is because of the small power they have. Tour operators normally push their products to the agencies. Agencies will have to offer only that product to the customer, violating the choice of a customer.
Another thing is that tour operators now have hundreds of their ownagencies and it is getting extremely difficult for independent agencies to compete.
Looser is of course the customer, because most travellers do not know that the travel agency they are in, is pushing them the product of its tour operator. The product which is not of good quality because of its mass-tourism character .
In Uzbekistan I think government will have to cover the costs when failure occurs, but not quite sure. But I know that one comany sold packages to like 400 tourists coming to Uzbekistan, and then just dissappeared after collecting the money. As this company was licensed by Uzbektourism, government had to cover the costs.
When I said about tour operators being sometimes persons not firms, I meant that in for example in Uzintour
there are persons who are called tour operators who have the authority to organise packages. Strange... However it seems that now small companies are doing that job.
As for orientation of tourists, first it should mentioned that visiting Uzbekistan is expensive. Hotel prices are much higher than that of Thailand for example. Another thing is tourists are mostly of older age. Nowadays people visiting uzbekistan mostly are from , France, Germany, Japan, USA. I think concentration should be based upon the level of income of potential tourists. Even if there are negative influence of torusim in Uzbekistan it can not be compared to the benefits it is bringing. However, Sustainable tourism should be considered, and proper management of the destinations is desirable. All i can say is that, unfortunately we lack this proper management. :)
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