Is this a right attitude? [Archive] - Uzbekistan Online Forum - Онлайн Форум Узбекистана

Cute

11-22-2000, 06:00 PM

Dear Iranyar, first of all you should agree that you just hate turkish.
I visited tajik forum and read all the topics, and I know that I'll never visit this again. Secondly when people say that they don't have anything against Turkey doesn't mean that they are offending Iran. And that doesn't mean that Uzbekistan is under Turkey's pressure, Turkish government fears uzbek government because uzbek government doesn't respect them. Turkey tried to gain power in Central Asia(and it is already in the history), but this can be also argued. Uzbekistan is independent country and it will never be under ideological or whatever pressure by other countries. Uzbek government is, perhaps, the most clever in this region. Persian was the lingua franca till 15 century not 20th century, Alisher Navoi had his impact on that ( I agree that persian was still used and may be had more power that time 15-20 centuries). And please don't try to proove things by history (history is written by people, it does have different views about one fact). We are here now, our official language is uzbek (the only official language), and this will never change, but other languages as well as persian are respected and are used freely. We are proud of our history,we are proud of our ancestors and we know our history very well. Government never tried to restrict using persian and it and will never do so. Our people do not hate others in uzbekistan, and they respect everybody, (kazak kirgiz korean russian tajik.....).
I agree that genocide is genocide, no matter who did or does this.
Rahmat and welcome to our board

iranyar

11-22-2000, 06:19 PM

Cute salomlar.

History is past but if it returns is a sad story, I do not base my facts on Mirzo facts, but on official reports of the independent human right activists in Uzbekistan, it says Uzbekistans population is for about ten million people Persianspeaking,also it is well known that Amir Timur improved the usage of Persian in Central Asia and his decendants did the same in India, it is also well known when the Russians conquered, Urgenj, Khiva, Samarkand, Boxara and Kukand the oficial languge has been persian, but according to the reports on Uzbekistan the education of Persian in the school is prohibited. While that a guy called observer did really justified Turkey's case by justifying the Genocide on the armenians, and he said the in Iran are Turks (whicj are non) and that they are discriminated. Well friend I belong to the smallest ethnic groups of Iran , namely Georgians and Kashkai (kashkai speak a Turkic language) but never call myself a Turk and never have been discriminated because of my ethnic background, it is not fair that people believe the Grey wolves propagation, I only mentioned their names and there appeared "dark" figure who opened a campaign against the Iranians, Well friends me and almost 99.9 % of the Iranins you meet have nothing with the stupid policies of some hardliners in Iran, we want more freedom and democracy, but be honest it is not fair that we are getting demonized and attacked onley because we are from a country ( in which we have not much to say and demand freely) :(

sepas ederдm o omidтm var ke biz dust buldikx (this is kashkai which I talke about)
Sepas `& Omid darтm ke dust beshдvim

Student

11-22-2000, 06:20 PM

I think the Lingua Franca should be English; for the moment being Russian is used by ppl. as Lingua Franca.

But the idea, that all should learn Persian or Arabian is not serious.
I think, it's nothing more than a try to expand its own cultural, political influence to our region(btw, religious fundamentalists backed by arabs claim that in paradise only one language - arabic is spoken :)) so that all should learn arabic).

Persian and Arabic are important for people who are interested in oriental history, literature etc. I think today the stress should be done on respect for national Language.

P.S.
Iranyar, I read your appeals to hate Turks, just because they are turks and don't speak persian like you or noth iranians :). I think it is not really correct to hate the whole nation like arabs and israelis or Armenains Azeris hate each-other.

I don't know what Turks did with Armenians or this kind of stuff, it's problem for historians; but what I know Turkey today is much more developed then Islamic Iran in all fields.
I can understand historical and political confrontation between Iran and Turkey, it's their stuff not ours.

So I would like to say you and only you Iranians should solve your problems with Turkey (and with all your neighbours as well :)), we should not get involved in confrontations giving one side right;

We don't want to have enimies, we don't search for problems;
every country who is friendly for us and respects us will be treated in the same way.

Respect

iranyar

11-22-2000, 06:36 PM

Dear student,

I can't agree with you in some points, you shouldn't compare Arabic with Persian, Arabic is language of Qoran and that's it, but Persian is the language of your own poets and writers. My appeal not to fight Persian language is that the people of Uzbekistan and not only the scientist but also the ordinary people, could help more on the understanding of the historical document and making a cultural enrichment possible.

And I don't agree with you that turkey is in all aspects better than Iran, the onliest better aspect of Turkey is that there are no lowlife looser basijis (civil guards) who care about the scarf of the girls and stpid things like this, but I should disappoint you that Turkey is in the respect of infrastructure and industury and public servises years and years behind Iran, it is well known to the foreign tourist who came on land to Iran via Turkey that the Turkish rural area's looked like "Afghanistan" and that the people were hungry and there were too many murderers and robbers along the roads, now only we can say that the cities which have been Touristic on the coast are made very beautifull, but I guess that you have never been in anatolia's rural are's and towns, well if you want my advice visit it to see the reality of Turkey from nearby and not only by those girls on the Turkish satelit TV.

Alex

11-22-2000, 08:01 PM

Hey Iranian, this board is not to discuss which country is superior Iran

or Turkey, if u have problems with Turks u have to discuss them somewhere

else.

As for the supremacy, it is obvious that Turkey ahead of every other

Muslim nation maybe except Indonesia (i am not sure) and both countries

achieved this by separating the religion from the government and

liberalizing the economy unlike Iran which did not. That is good lesson

for all other Muslim nations too.

As for the "cultural enrichment" people who get "enriched" try to impose

their "enrichment" to other people. I do agree that we have to know and

appreciate the culture but i think we have to dismiss the cultural values

if it impedes and restrains (which it does in most cases) the development

of the country.

PS. I think that Uzbekistan has to be closer to the country which gives

more FDIs and strategic alliences but not those "advisors" and "blood

relations" trying to promote their influence in the region or promoting

the short term trade. In that sense

Iran might be useful to build the railway through Turkmenistan and Iran to

the ocean.

UniversaL

11-22-2000, 11:09 PM

salom!

the only way to reach prosperity is the cooperation and everything that is directly/indirectly relates to it. however, here do i see the parties with prejudiced loyalty to their own nations and the most interesting point is that they are trying to reach cosensus despite that common disperity ...
guys, you'd better understand each other's point before urging on something; most of you are trying to convince based on your own ideas, but do not realize that the other part is doing the same and by this way you are losing each other, yeah losing ... probably you'd better stop for a while and think different!...

respect,

UniversaL

Sanatullo

11-23-2000, 05:50 AM

Iranyar,

As one of those so called "tajik speaking people of Samarkand, Buhara", I will try to give you some of my ideas, and reality.

1. I don't agree with your statement that people who want their children to study in Tadjik are not allowed to do so in Uzbekistan. There are a lot of schools both in Samarkand and, (I am not so sure. Because I am not from Buhara) in Buhara. I know that there are some schools that teach only in tadjik, and some schools that teach both in Uzbek and in Tadjik, or both in Russian and Tadjik.

I should also note that the number of schools that teach classes (I am not sure whether you have some information about the educational system of Uzbekistan) in tadjik have increased since the independence of Uzbekistan. It is true that, in the beginning, there was big interest to send children to the classes taught in tadjik. But later, people found that it doesn't worth to send their children to the tadjik classes. Of course, in the beginning, there were problems like shortage of personal, shortage of books and etc. But, I think, these are not the problem.

Shortage of books is still the problem of tadjik schools, because almost all of them come from Tadjikistan's publishing companies.( I think you know the situation in Tadjikistan)Besides, most of the books are old. Uzbekistan can't help for that. Because it has the same problem with schools that teach in Uzbek, russian, etc. The country is in the situation where it can't supply its population with necessary books. I think, Tadjikistan also has such kind of problem. Maybe ( I said maybe) their situation is even worse.

The reason why the number of students have decreased is not related to the materiality. Those tadjik speaking people of Samarkand, Buhara are not the same as those Tadjik speaking people of Tadjikistan. Their language is different a lot, though they can understand Tadjikistani Tadjik like an Uzbek understands Turkey's Turkish. Now, imagine the situation where you should learn something like a new language in order to study. Besides that language which you are trying to learn is not used in your society. Will you study in that language?

(Exception: A lot of us went to Turkish, Russian shchools. I think couple of reasons for that were to acquire the better education, show up ourselves as an elite. Or am I wrong?)

I should also note that the same situation exists in the higher education of Uzbekistan. All those facts are given from my personal knowledge and observation in those areas. Besides, I always try to know what is going on in my neighborhood. (Probably many people do the same)

To be continued.

Sanatullo

11-23-2000, 06:58 AM

Iranyar,

I think it is true that persian was used as a state language in the territories of Central Asia until Soviets came.(I said in the territories of Central Asia. Because there were no Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan, etc) For those who are interested I advise you to research on that topic. (if you want, of course). I think, we should learn history based on objectivity. I agree with those opinions that history about territory of the states/empires/emirates is the past, and nothing more.

Now, let me give you some ideas on who are those "tadjik speaking people of Samarkand, Buhara" .(since I am one of them.) Those people are not the same as those tadjik speaking people of Tadjikistan, or Iran. Our language is mixed a lot with languages like Uzbek, and russian.(though I think, there is no pure Uzbek. Because someone from Horazm says that he is Uzbek but hardly understands someone from Tashkent. The same for Samarkand, Buhara, Ferghana Valley, Kashkadaryo and Surhandaryo. I don't think that Ferghana's Uzbek is pure Uzbek, though those people from Ferghana Valley think that their Uzbek is pure). Besides our culture is different.

Since our language is not the same, I think we can't pretend that we are tadjik (though some people say that they are tadjik.) But also we can't say that we are Uzbek. (though some people's Soviet passport showed that they are Uzbek. Uzbekistani passport state that their nationality is Uzbekistan, or Uzbekistani) Now who am I?

I tried to refer to the history. The history of people of Samarkand, and the history of Samarkand itself is very rich.

An example about the population of Samarkand. According to the Davlatshoh Samarkandi's "History of Samarkand", I think the current population of Samarkand is mainly formed in the beginning of ninetinth century. Davlatshoh Samarkandi states that the number of population decreased so much that Samarkand was almost in the stage of disapperance. Since Samarkand was one of the cities of Emirate of Buhara, emir of Buhara issued decree. According to the decree, the state migrated some people from different other cities. Samarkandi states that thus way the number of population was increased.
(If you are interested, you may read that book. Besides you may research on that topic based on other sources)
Since my recent ancestors are also mixed, who am I then?

Since I was born, I have been registered as an Uzbek, though I am not that "Uzbek". In the family, I speak that "so called tadjik", though that tadjik is not the same as tadjik in Tadjikistan, or Iran. Besides I can't say that I am minority,(Even the prezident of Uzbekistan is one of those like me), and can't be easily transformed into some other nationalities. I think I am Uzbekistani like those 24 million people. Why I can't say that if a typical American says that he is an american, though he speaks greek, or whatever in his family, and his ancestors are greek, or whatever.) Since we don't widely use Uzbekistani in our terminology in Uzbekistan, in most of the cases when people ask about my nationality, I answer "SAMARKANDI". I think, It is up to that person who asked question how to percieve my answer. It doesn't really bother me.

These were some ideas and facts about those so called "tadjik speaking people" of Uzbekistan. I think, based on the existed reality, history and culture nobody has rights to claim for/force me, or people like me to become Uzbek or Tadjik. It is up to me or people like me to decide who are WE? I think, Islam Karimov had clearly showed the the right answer for that problem since many policies in Uzbekistan are related to his ideas in his books.

Sincerely,

Sanatullo

P.S. If you are here with the intention that is based on objectivity, I think my answer would be enough for those guyz (no matter where are you from) who begin to discuss on these topics.

Iranyar

11-23-2000, 11:32 AM

Alex,

It's clear that you are blind for your love towards Turkey, and I think that you don't read my messages about how I am angry about the Iranian policies, so you are not objective and my attempts to elaborate the facts are fruitless.

Dear Sanatollo,

Your points are exactly the same as the official Uzbek positions, I think you are an Uzbek official but it doesn't matter at all.

First of all I agree with you the terminology Tajik/Uzbek is put to these people by the Stalin's divide and rule policy

But I can't agree with you on some other points, in Iran noone says that he speaks Tajiki, our official language is called Persian, but there are other Iranian languages who are used locally, some of those are big languages like Kurdish and azeri and some are even very small but very rich in litterature like Armenian, so it would be crime to ignore these languages. What is called in central Asia Tojiki, Samarkandi, Buxari etc... are the same as we call it in Iran Farsi onley accent differs and some vocubulary for example Tajiki persian has more Turkic words in it than Farsi of Iran, the differents are like this to give an example is in Persian is est. In spoken Tajiki they say ay, in spoken Iranian Persian they say e, in mary Turkmenistan they say a, in some persian Gulf dialects they say ey, in Esfahan they say es, In Samarkand they use a stop (like Russian) and went on. I understand the Buxaric dialect totally, I know it from some Jewish people, and i listen to those songs. Differences in vocubulary has to do with the environment for example in Tajiki they say occasionaly the Turkic qosh instead of the real persian word дbru (eyebrow), but in Xuzestan some people occasionally use Arabic shat instead of Persian rud (river) these things you see in all languages, for example north German looks very similar to Dutch of holland than to German of Munich.
Your point that Samarkandi is as similar to Farsi and Tajiki as Uzbek it is to Turkish of Turkey is totally unvalid, first of all Uzbek vocabullary is for some 80% the same as Persian vocublary, secondly Turkic elements of Uzbek comes from Jaghatay Turkic and not Oghuz Turkic as Oghuz is the Turkic roots of Turkish. Now I know that there are Persianspeaking people in Uzbekistan that call themselves Uzbek and not Tajik, but that's not the point, they speak Persian. All of the dialects of Central Asian Persian are dialects of Persian which was spread during the Samanid and Timurid period in central Asia. Only those languages of Nagorno Badaxshan and Yaghnob are not Persian, and belong to the East Iranian languge subgroups, they are of the same group as Ossetian in caucasus, The east Iranian languages like Soghdian and khorezmian once were spoken widely in Central asia but now are distinct, but the Tajiki, Samarkandi, Buxaric, Mary are all belong to the Persian language which belongs to the West Iranian subgroup, the other languages belong to the West Iranian are Kurdish, Lori, Gilдk, Mazдndarani, Tдbдri, Talysh, Tat etc... So your statement about the fact that samarkandi Persian is a totally different language than Farsi, and Tajiki, could be falsified easily trough the linguistics.

As for you other point: It is not up to Tajikistan that should provide books to Uzbekistan, it is a task of Uzbekistan ministry of culture and education to publish and improve the Persian language, it is an internal policy after the independence, your statement looks like that Austria should supply Germany with German books!
And I've spoken and read the reports of the independent human right organization on Uzbekistan, not onley Persian is not educated at the school, but a few who teached Persian are closed by the law. I don't want to say the names, but there are figures in Uzbekistan who do this intentionally in cooperation with Turkey, their main aim is to make the native cultures and languages of Central asia distinct and destroy an ancient civilization, to make a big Turkey.

Sizga Rahmat

SUN6500

11-23-2000, 04:43 PM

Bifarmoyin' ogoi Ironii, goftigui siyosatiro piromune Iron va Turkiero az in board be joi digar benavisin... Injo mo ahvol siyosati u eqtosidii O'zbakiston bahs mikonim.

SUN6500

11-23-2000, 05:04 PM

With all due respect, Mr.Iranyar, your blind hatred toward Turks (and, yes, Uzbeks are within Turkic family) makes you look very racist. This forum is primarily devoted to Uzbekistan, where we all discuss socio-economic situation and prospects for our country. Just a reminder that Uzbekistan comprises many more nationalities including Russians, Kazakhs, Tajiks, Kyrgyz and more. It's not just a fate of a mono nation. We also welcome people of different republics of Central Asia to join a C-I-V-I-L-I-Z-E-D discussion. In this board we absolutely against inter-ethnic hatred, confrontation, inter-religious provocations and stereotyping. Please, refrain from expressing your open hatred for any other nation in respect of other members of this board. You may as well take all of your discussion of so called "prevalent nation" ideas to your members.boardhost.com/tajikistan. There, I am positive, you'll find many more who might share your opinion of Greater Iran or etc.

Respectfully,

SUN6500

P.S. Your statement on members.boardhost.com/tajikistan:

"BTW it's today Thanksgiving day, Everywher "Turkey's" ass is burning " -- makes you look like a racist bigot, nothing else.

Alex

11-23-2000, 10:03 PM

Iranyar,

I am not blind from the love to Turkey, I just see that Turkey as a

country with stronger economy (with GDP $305.2 billion versus $51.9

billion of Iran) with better reputation and relations with the West and they

are investing to the country more than Iran. Although u might be right

about the "infrastructure " dispersion in Turkey is not commensurable in

all parts of the country.

And your statement on members.boardhost.com/tajikistan really sucks, u

have a problem, and u have to admit it...

mavin

11-23-2000, 11:08 PM

Iranyar listen to this
My passport states that i'm tajik. However, it's only because of a mistake. Only my farther is tajik, but my mother is pure uzbek. but that's not a whole story. my farther's passport says tajik only because he was born and raised among tajik people. as for genes, only his mother (my grandmother) was tajik. but his farther (my grandfarther) was uzbek. so who am I? (like Sanatullo said). when I was born, some neglectful officials indicated my mother as tajik in my borth certifacate. so here i am, officially tajik, but genetically more uzbek than tajik.
but i don't regret at all. i think of both languages as my native. and plus, i speak turkish too. so let me tell you that turkish has more similiarities with uzbek than persian or tajik does. you said that 80% of uzbek vocabulary consists of tajik words and there are few turkish ones. duh! then take an uzbek and let him have conversation with tajik (or persian) and turkish. see whom the uzbek understands better. i bet an oridinary uzbek will understand maybe 5-10% at most of what a tajik guy says. while he will understand about 50% or more of what turkish guy says.

anyways, as our another friend SUN6500 put it in the language u understand better, if u r trying to raise some kind of conflict between uzbeks and tajiks or arouse some doubts in our minds with all your mumblings about history and where we should be and what we should do, u r just not welcome here.

one more thing, u were not born and raised either in Uzbekistan or Tajikistan. and frankly, the way how we live our lives should be up to us. u r just not an insider, u can't talk behalf of us. u r an outsider. so just stay where u r. be a man and mind yr own business. if u r so "worried" about non-uzbeks or mixtures like me, we really appreciate it, but we have no problems at all.

if u want to become our friend, come like one. if u keep bringing all that hatred crap against turkish people or Uzbek government u may end up funding yrself inside of what u've brought.

and please, don't try to amaze us with sharing thoughts from yr little research in our "history". it is not up to you to question our history and lifestyle in our motherland. nobody is discriminating non-uzbeks in Uzbekistan. so calm down. in fact if u go to Uzbekistan (which would be a good idea for such an "expert" in our history, don't u think?) and look at things objectively u may find some "dissapointments". just to prepare u not to be so shocked i can describe u the real picture a little bit. i have few friends, uzbeks and tajiks, who are married to a russian, or korean, or tatar, or even an armenian (bou!), not mentioning marriages between uzbeks and tajiks, which is a common thing back there. scary, huh?

u know, sometimes, it is better to put books aside, ignore all the "information" u can get provided by people who want to build yr mind in their way, and go for yrself, see, talk to people, breath the same air with them, then make some conclusions for yourself.

from what i understood it looks like u r more close to armenians then to persians. u might even have some common roots with them. u r hate turkish people so much, yet they are from the same religion u r (if u r muslim. and from what i know, most of Iran's population follow shia direction in Islam, which is the case in Turkey as well).

anyways, let's just stop it. if u want to become friends, we are cool with that. we can make good buddies. let's talk about art, music, technology, girls or so on. u know just take it easy. enjoy yr life man. why would u try to insert all the crap in our minds, which is not gonna work? if u r doing some research or whatever in history of Central Asian region, way to go man. u r free to write your thoughts, publish them. and belive me, if there're people, who are interested, they gonna find out your works and read them. and between u and me, i think that my UMIDie fellas are not really interested in them. which is true about me as well.

so just don't be upset. i'm trying to be fiendly here. just calm down. and grab a coke or smth. and let's come up with a different topic next time.

peace

mavin

11-23-2000, 11:10 PM

Mavin

11-23-2000, 11:21 PM

guys, my message got posted twice. sorry about that. looks like my pc got more exsited than i was.
stay cool all. and don't eat too much turkey :)

Iranyar

11-24-2000, 01:44 PM

I am amazed that wether me am racist or some guys here.
Listen if that ignorant guy, called up, has opened up a propaganda campaign that we Kashkai are Turk, it shows Turkey's imperialist behaviour and I will defend my people, so don't take side.

And by the God sake, who says that the khorezmians were Turks, for your info they are more white than Uzbeks of tashkent and Farghona, and in this case it is very obvious, there are still text remained in Khorezmian language, belonging to the east Iranian brunch.
oh one more thing, i have never said that Central Asia should be part of what is called today Iran, but it is a fact that the samanides called themself Iranians, so did rudaki and Avicenna, onley your efforts to deny the Indo-European Iranian origins of the cultural herritage of central asia, shows your hatred towards us.

I am white, Caucasian, I speak Georgian, Kashkai, and Persian, and have never discriminated people for being another race or speak another language, but you do.

And Alex the statistics you are reffering to is pure B.S. .
And one more thing don't "bou" Armenians or any other race again, it is very racist of you.

About being friends: that was my intention when I came here, at the Tajik board they were more friendly, so they were at the Armenian board,and even at the Turkish board they were more friendly, so I don't think your racial hatred could have been beneficial to being friend with you,
As for the Paranoid people: No I am not Tajik, and did not have take side in your argue at their board, so I don't really understand your hatred towards me, beacuse I am white and speak persian (and other languages as well).
Just food for some thoughts.

MegaZ

11-24-2000, 02:47 PM

Miru - mir, voyne - p*p*s'ka :)

Iranyar

11-24-2000, 02:54 PM

Sorry I don't speak Russian. :(

Student

11-24-2000, 03:00 PM

Salom,

prishel so slovami "sizga rahmat", "dostlar",

nachal veshat problemi so svoei rasoi, nationalnostyu,

teper doshel do togo razdelyat Uzbekov na belih i temnih, nachal rugat teh chii mnenie emu ne nravitsya....

Vivod: ne pustit etu nevezhu mangurta v UMID board!!!

puskai umnichaet v drugih forumah, tolko ne pakat etot Board!

tak shto delo k Administratoram servera:)

JUST

11-24-2000, 03:01 PM

Assalomu alaykum, Iranyar

thank you for sharing your opinions, :) it was very interesting and funny :)

The problem with you is that, you don't want to listen to others, and accept the truth even if enough evidence is given.

You have some prejudices, and you are quite ambitious in defending them.

well, as far as i understand you r trying to persuade us that there is a discrimination towards tajiks, and persian language ,

believe me, there is no such discrimination. we live in Uzbekistan, so we know better, you don't. you build your opinion only on your readings from news from various sources, mostly Western - they often try to give exaggerated info.

I will not write you a long explanation - i have no time at the moment. Sanatullo has given you right info on situation of tajiks in Uzbekistan. if you still don't believe - read it again and again

My sound advice to you: Be openminded.

Stay coolheaded

best regards

JUST

P.S. Literature to tajik schools must be provided by Tajikistan as Uzbek literature for uzbek schools abroad are being provided by Uzbekistan, as Russia supports russian schools with literature abroad and so on. it is an international convention. think for a while and you will understand why. if you still dont get it economies of scale may be clue for u.

Iranyar

11-24-2000, 03:18 PM

Student I don't speak Russian.

Just:

I have spoken to several Tajiks of Uzbekistan.

As you made an intelligent point: the economy of scale, by this reason Uzbekistan should provide Tajik books for Tajikistan too, beacuse it is more profitable.

As you pretend that the Uzbeks don't hate the Iranians you are wrong, I was since last month a great fan of Yulduz, your singer, she sang before in Persian too, last time she doesn't sing in Persian anymore and goes to Turkey to give concert, all the attaendants at her concerts I've been too were European, Persians, Kurds and Armenians. Not a single Turk was to her concert. last time she spoke with people, but this year she refused to speak to the Persians, in order not to be associated with them, some poets who enjoyed her concerts offered to write songs for her for free, but still she refuses those songs because there are written by a Persianspeaker.

To be honestly, before I came to this site, I had doubts about what those Tajiks said, that the Uzbeks are hostile to the whites and the Persian language, but now I can feel the hatred.

As for economy of scales: Do you think that an organiztion provide Uzbekistanwith books, those books are free to be used at the schools? I really want to know this.

SUN6500

11-24-2000, 04:31 PM

Yeah, whatever... If you're white caucasian, then call me Irish Celt. The whole issue of you being racist was raised based on your points in regards to Turks. And, p-l-e-a-s-e don't deny your hatred which so freakin' obvious and your sporadic denials makes you look funny. And your comment of " ...As you pretend that the Uzbeks don't hate the Iranians you are wrong.." is a pure smoking pile of crap! How dare you to stereotype people ? How the hell on earth you know ? Well, "I spoke to people.." doesn't give any evidence that Uzbek people hate Persians. Is that why they still listen to Gugush and Fathoni ? If you Uzbek people really hate Persians, that it should be a reverse effect on your behalf too, right? So, you do hate Uzbeks then? What the hell you doing here, Iranyar ? People on this board are being of negative impression of you to a very reason because you proved to be a real chovinist! If someone, as you claimed, have named Kashkai Turks, then go ahead an disagree with him. No need to call names and brand the entire nation of Turkey. People have a right to disagree, so go on have a conversation with him, no need to call the guy "Stupid Turk" as you put it out. Wheather you like it or not, Uzbeks do have more things in common than with Persians as per communication goes. And your petty tries to make a "happy Persian family" out of Central Asia, I guess it should go straight to urinal, because we don't need any "Big Brother" wheather it's Russia, or Iran. You guys can go ahead and have your "superior arian race" established within Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and yes Iran (Where all people of superrior race resides). Most guys, (including me) pissed off at you because you came to this board with a good intentions of bringing peace between Tajiks and Uzbeks on Message Boards, but it turned out to be only phoney, and you started pushing your own agenda of "Unification under Persian Flag" crap!

As far as your lies regarding you being Caucasian and stuff, its another trick to make us believe that you're neutral here and so called trying to "bring some sense of history to Uzbeks" (ha-ha!). You're one of the Persian guys who immigrated to Netherlands. I used to have some friends from Fidoyiun, and Aksariyat that stayed in Tashkent for a brief while then went ahead and immigrated to Sweden, Germany, and Belgium. So, please, next time, spare us from your crap about you being of White Anglo Saxon Protestant or Viking, b'se that bullshit can go straight to the message board where you actually came from.

If you really want to contribute to a discussion about Uzbekistan, stay within parameters of mutual self-respect and restrain stereotyping, branding, scolding other nations,and putting one nation against the other!

Cheers,

SUN6500

P.S. You're wrong when you said that "...even at the Turkish board they were more friendly" . I've observed their message boards as well, and be rest assured, with this tone of yours, they will rip your *** in two and put out on sun dry at no time, I know those guys. And since your Tajik and Armenian message boards are of the same tune of hatred toward Turks, I see no reason why they wouldn't be placating you with your ideas. Sober up, boy!

JUST

11-24-2000, 04:49 PM

Well, (it is my last reply on this topic)

Iranyar, i see you have spoken to several tajiks, maybe they are also as prejudiced and ambitious as you are. or even if your research they aren't, you still has small sample of tajiks to make fair conclusion. We citizens of Uzbekistan have chance to communicate with more tajiks and see the situation in general better than you. another "intelligent point" :) : the larger the sample, the closer will be the average to the real average of whole population basic rule of statistics. Overall attitude to tajiks and persian language speakers is not so bad.

the example you ve given with Yulduz Usmonova is not valid. i would like to emphasize it again:one cannot make conclusion about whole nation and country based on attitudes of one, two or group of people. as if we cannot say that all tajiks are bastards and uncivilised given that some of them are writing stupid threads on tajik board and here as well (i mean not you but Mirzo:)).

you said "As you made an intelligent point: the economy of scale, by this reason Uzbekistan should provide Tajik books for Tajikistan too, beacuse it is more profitable"

you didn't get the point. it is not profitable for Uzbekistan to produce tajik books for tajik schools in Uzbekistan and vice versa. let me explain why: it is not easy to write books, imagine - sb tries to translate maths, chemistry, physics,... into Tajik language; to rewrite tajik literature :) history :) and so on, when there are such books ready in Tajikistan. even if uzbek ministry of education or whatever would take ready context from tajik ministry of education and publish them in Uzbekistan it isnt profitable at all. that's why it is a good idea that countries exchange school literature.

i dont know exactly wether our government provides with school literature to uzbek schools abroad or not. even if it doesn't provide sufficiently, it is only the problem of high costs, to do so. I know exactly that russian books for russian schools in Uzbekistan are provided by Russia for free, but again it isn't sufficient. schoolboys have to share books.

i dont know whether my arguments seem reasonable to you, it is good to have strong belief in sth but one should be ready to change his mind whenever enough evidence is given.

keep cool and calm, think over one more time

in this time best wishes ;)

JUST

P.S. i will not reply anymore to this thread, and to any other thread like this. u are welcome to post messages which make any sense :). we are not hostile at all to persians, tajiks, kazakhs, etc. unless they are not writing craps, we don't make any distinction ;)

OPTIMIST

11-24-2000, 05:05 PM

dEAR ALL,

i FULLY SUPPORT jUST AND SUGGEST IRANYAR THAT HE CHANGES HIS MIND,

OR, OTHER VARIANT TO GO TO UZBEKISTAN AND LIVE THERE LONG ENOUGH TO PERCEIVE WHAT'S GOING ON IN REALITY AND TO WHAT EXTENT HE BELEIVES IS TRUE,

SO, THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION,

THANKS FOR EVERYONE,

OPTIMIST ;)

Alex

11-24-2000, 05:28 PM

Ya poddershivayu Studenta naschet zakritiya dostupa Iraniaru.

Iraniyar, you look silly rehearsing "I don't speak Russian." You never even suspected that student did not mean you to understand, isn't it nice we speak your language and can talk to you in Persian and you don't
speak Russian.

Go run, look for your tajik friends to translate it for u, ha ha ha.

Do you really know the meaning of the term "economies of scale", looks like you don't. Simply admit that you don't, it sucks when somebody tries to look smart, you know, speaking foreign languages does not mean anything.

And your repeatedly mentioning that you are “white, European, Caucasian” looks stupid to me; who cares about your race?

Mavin

11-24-2000, 06:07 PM

hey buddy, let's get it clear. i didn't "bou" armenians or any other nationalities. what i intended to say by putting "bou" was those marriages must have sounded surpirising for you. and it was "bou", like scaring someone, not "boo" like expressing dislike. got it? i hope u did this time.

anyways, to make the story short, just keep yr boiling brains calm for minute and think for yrself. did u find anybody on this board supporting yr idea or sharing yr thoughts whether uzbek or tajik? i don't think so.

we just don't like yr attitude here. PERIOD. be nice and friendly. if u call as friends (dostlar) then u gotta respect what we do respect. so just be that or be gone.

koroche, i don't think it is worth wasting my time any further. but if u came back w/yr arritating attitude we'll vote just kick you out of here. and i'm damn sure all guys, wether tajik or uzbek, will support this idea.

guys, we don't need a krisa here.
stay cool all

Cute

11-24-2000, 06:12 PM

Da rebyata zachem zakrit yemu dostup, pust jivyot. U nego vid' prikoli horoshiye. Sam uydyot posle togo kak uznayet chto tut yego nekto ne budet slushat kak velikogo istorika i kak ochen' umnogo cheloveka. Pust' rannitsu pochustvoyet.

SUN6500

11-24-2000, 08:21 PM

Hey guys,

Iranyar has indeed somehow got lost in his own lies. Take a look at third thread from top.
He replies to Kroka that he " ..I am not from Tajikistan, I am from Esfahan." Duh??!!
Since when White Caucasian Flemish/Saxon/Roman/Viking has been living in Esfahan ??
I think he is suffering from dual personality disorder. I think thoughts of Arian pure breed race have finally got him. Poor soul!

Sanatullo

11-25-2000, 10:58 AM

Hi all,

Iranyar, I see you can't get the points of my writing. From your writings, so far, I understood that you have problems with Uzbekistan, and nothing more. If so, don't fu** our minds and stop bullshitting.

And now, Iranyar, if you are really something like Armenian, let me tell you. I hate Armenians. I hate those motherf*c** armenian's ancestors. Because they also killed our people, during that Russian revolution. (Example: Kokand's population has dropped twofold after Dashnaks left. It was around 80 thousands when they entered for finding members of "Kokand Muhtoriyat", and became around 40 thousands. Reference: Try to research on Kokand Muhtoriyat's history.) WHY? If they can claim for the genocide of their ancestors, why we can't claim for the genocide of our approximately 80-90 thousands people? WHY? Tell me WHY? Or are those human rights declarations, and everything like, that only for the specific people of the EARTH?

Iranyar, If you are talking about the human rights report and don't believe in us, come to Uzbekistan, and see everything with your eyes. Everything is fine in those schools that you mentioned. It is the People of "those so called tadjik" themselves don't want to go to those schools. The matter of the books is not only the problem of Tadjik schools, it is the problem of the whole educational system. Why the government should discriminate in publishing books, and only should take care of Tadjik schools? Tell me WHY?

The exchanging books is the inherited experience from the Soviet's time. If you guyz don't believe me, let me ask you question. Question for those who studied in Russian schools. Tell me guyz, where were those of your books published?

Iranyar, your arguments are not clear. Besides, you can't justify them with proper democratic examples. The statement about Yulduz Usmonova was bullshiting, and nothing more. It seems, guyz like you, are something like people who feel hatred of everything. It is not due your ethnicity, or language, the religion you confess, or the country you live. It is because you mind is fuc*ked up.

Iranyar, you are writing abot Samanids, and Avicenna. So what if they called themselves as a persian? Does it make something different? Besides, they were not "those persian" like you, they were Buharian. I am sure, we are absolutely different from you guyz, like we are different from Turkish people.

I think both Iran and Turkey have ultra nationalistic idealogies. It is pity that lots of their people are spoiled with such kind of idealogy. I hope we are not going to be like them. Or do you guyz think that the misinterpretation of that "MILLIY MAFKURA" may lead to that point?

Thanks for your answers,

Sanatullo

P.S. Sorry for being rude in some statements.

Alex

11-25-2000, 11:51 AM

Sanatullo,

Konchay eti "I hate" i "I hate" tem samim ti upodoblyeshsya etim rasistam kotorie vse vidyat v svete istorii, kto-kogo i za shto... nado zhit' nastoyashim.

And the example of Yulduz maybe is not a bullshitting, and i am pretty sure that it is not discrimination either. My assumption is that's a the smart business strategy - knowing that Yulduz is trying to promote her albums in Europe; she's been there several times, and i think she has a Dutch producer; and knowing the attitude of Europe and West to islamic states, she just does not want to be associated with the whole idea of veiwing the album as something religious, instead she promotes herself as an oriental artist. GOOD GIRL !!!

That was just my assumption,

Alex

Freestyler

11-25-2000, 12:29 PM

Just some facts: Avicenna (Full Name being Abu Ali Ibn Sino) is actually arab, not persion and not uzbek and not turkic, although born in Afshona near Bukhara. Afshona is an arabic settlement near Bukhara. It is ridiculous to see him being portrayed as a narrow-eyed in Uzbekistan and being more of a caucasian look in Dushanbe. When I saw him in Tajikistan I did not recognise him at all. Stupid politicans (from both sides)...

I don't give it a damn who were my ancestors or how great they were. Knowing that they were great does not make me feel that I am great too. The only thing that it brings is apparantly revival of ethnical confrontation.
And I am not gonna hate turks for their genocide against armenians and hate armenians for their slaughter in Kokand. I don't hate nations, but I hate bigots in them. Hey guys do we really need all this debate?
Iranyar, it seems as if you have a paranoia to convince us that we have some kind of problem, discrimination against persians or tajiks. (Certainly there is some, but this is not on a Governmental level). Please stop doing that, because as someone has said you are an outsider to this problem and don't know the truth. I am half tajik born in Bukhara and can tell you that tajik-speaking population is quite happy with current policy in Uzbekistan towards the languages. Most of them wouldn't care what the official language is as long as this does not prohibit them to use their language. Believe me tajik is spoken freely in the city (even in schools and some offives). There is a channel broadcasting in tajik. Although I must admit that tajik schools do not exist in Bukhara, and I don't know why. (There used to be tajik classes though)

So now closer to my point. Whoever they be, turks, persians, tajiks, russians or armenians,
Uzbekistan will welcome as long this friendship serves for the mutual economic wellbeing and prosperity of both nations. The cooperation with Turkey has brought us lots of benefits, as well as aa few unwanted consequences.
And if this friendship only revives the historical hatred, Uzbkestan should say and says "**** off"...

Ok I will go on later

Keep it sober

sean

11-25-2000, 02:02 PM

I do not know, guys
BUT(texasskiy accent) but.
I think that all the crap around is about nationality.
I do not like it, so to speak, no ne dopuskat' IRANIYARA ili kak tam ego, na board iz za togo chto on istoriyu horosho znaet ili iz za togo chcto u nego veskie argumenti' , eto ne krasivo, eto po Uzbekskomu :) u chuvaka svoi argumenti u vas toje vrode vashi, derzayte, disputiruyte:)
vrode ya toje Uzbek no tolerantni'y :) koroche,
hammaga salom
RE delat' ne stoit na moy message, ya vsegda prav :)
iskrenne
sean

Kroka

11-25-2000, 02:06 PM

Iranyar I thought you are normal person who came with peace,

instead behind the peace mask you keep bringing up the national dispute

my advice: leave this board alone with your nationalistic concerns or bring something positive to the board

Iranyar

11-25-2000, 02:07 PM

fist of all, yes we are caucasian, white, what is wrong with that? We have also Asiatic people in Iran in East Iran, but they are not discriminated at all, see Xodadad Дzizi, our national hero. So if the majority of the Iranians are caucasian doesn't mean that we discriminate the other races, nope.

Second: I never stated that Uzbekistan and Tajikistan should unite with Iran, as I know that the Government of Iran is not capable of it at all, it will damage our culture more than before. And afterall there is such a thing as international right which says that each independent state should respect the other state's border. But We can be devided in many staes and still have cultural coopertion, I don't see the problem.

Third: I am onley fascinated at cultures and languages and musics, it is not that I want Persian replace all the other languages, but it is a sad fact that Persian language is in danger, In Bahrain, Iraq and Afghanistan it is prohabited, in Israel and Uzbekistan they are in danger of vanishing. Onley in Tajikistan, China and Iran this ancient language is respected, In Armenia too learn a lot of People Persian, but also there are no efforts of improvement of this language, for example the fundamentalists in Iran fight any effort of writing Persian in Latin alphabet, and their newspapers are full of Arabic words. In This respect Uzbekistan as a secular Government could be again the centre of Persian litterature, but the pro-Turkey elements have spoiled this enormous opportunity of Uzbekistan.

Fourth: Not all things is governmental, there are such a thing as non-Governmental organizations (NGO's). For example we have a NGO in Iran whose main goal is education of Georgian language, me myself am cooperating with the institute of the Georgian languge in Tbilisi and exchange, books, musics etc... between us. NB. Iran and Georgia are politically not very closed, if not controversary, due to the caspian sea oil, but this cooperation is possible, and the Iranian authorities cooperate with us, why such a cooperation would not be beneficial also between us and Uzbek people.

Fifth: Sanattolla, I never heraed of The Armenians killing people in Kokand, anyway it is not their fault, because they were soldiers under the Russian commando.
I want to say something: my impression about the ex-soviet Armenians is that they are very ethnonationalist and intolerant somehow, but this does not apply to 8 all 8 million Armenians all over the world. In Georgia for example the Armenians and Georgians are hostile to each other, but in Iran there is no hatred between us, eventhough we Iranian Georgians are moslims unlike those Christians in Georgia and the Iranian Armenians are christians, we are very friendly to each other, I have a lot of Armenian friends in Esfahan, without Armenians would Esfahan be really boring, the Armenian Aragh rules. So Sanatolla I can't share your hatred towards the Armenians.

Sixth: I do not hate Uzbeks, or any other Asiatic people, in fact I do a study in the Uzbek linguistics, and to make Uzbek music for a singer who I am cooperating with.

Seventh: Yulduz manger in Netherlands is black, and it is the reason that she allways has two black girls in the background in her concerts in Europe. This dammages the autencity of her music.
And you are wrong, the Europeans don't associate Persian languge with something religiuos, in fact they are crazy about the poems of Khayyam and Ferdowsi and Hafez, I had lessons even in highschool about those.
Everytime in the Iranian concerts there come many many Europeans, I know at least 100 pDutch people who are learning Persian or already speak it fluently, so the languge as such could not be the reason of her refusal to sing in Persian.

eighth: Avicenna was like Biruni a Khorezmian and was like us Caucasian, and not Asiatic as the East Asian people, he wrote many things in Persian, I remember one of his books , and even there are poems of him in Persian, however as I am not a Persian chauvenist I say that he was Khorezmian, but anyway no one should deny that the Khorezmians were Iranians and not Asiatic (TurcoMongolians) however I believe that they were not exactly the same as us in what is now called (the sate) of Iran.

Ninth: Gugush rules. today I bought her new CD of her concert in Canada, but Fattane is an underaverage singer and I don't like her at all, but anyway I find it vey natural and good that you in central Asia listen and understand our music and we listen and understand your music :)

tenth: If you really think I hate the Uzbeks, you are really wrong, you better had checked my messages about Mohira Asadova and also Uzbek football at the Iransportspress, This even a reson that I and commrades got banned from the Asian 2000 football site, because me and other people who you call Racists, began to argue and fight for Uzbekistan against the Arabs there.

eleventh: The problem of me and those Turks is more than a cyber fight and we are already involved in hostility since the early 90s, when they stabbed killed three Kurdish friends of mine, in Rotterdam in a concert. Those Grey wolves waqnt to make our country like Yougoslavia, they want that Iran disintegrate, I don't have any other choice to fight the evil, so if you don't agree with me at least take no side :)

Iranyar

11-25-2000, 02:10 PM

Kroka with all respect, I take no side in the Uzbekistan/Tajikistan or Uzbekistan intyernal disputes, but I want to see that all of our nations get closer and cooperate more with each other.

Bukhoro

11-25-2000, 05:34 PM

Hi everybody

First of all I would like to upheld a statement that “Tajik” language in Bukhara and Samarkand is different from language spoken in Tajikistan. Sometimes I met Tajiks from Tajikistan (mostly bazars in Tashkent) and could not stand them saying that I don’t know pure Tajik language – but hello))))) it is not Tajiks who live in Bukhoro, I would say it is Bukharians who live here (that was brave :)). I am from Bukhoro and you know what.. there is no Uzbeks or Tajiks in Bukhoro city. Uzbeks and Tajiks are so mixed with each other that nobody now cares (seems like only you (Tajiks and Uzbeks) care) in Bukhoro who is Tajik or Uzbek. I don’t want to hear any Tajiks from Tajikistan or other Persian people from the rest of the world claiming Bukhoro or Samarkand. I have never even bothered myself to read any history on this issue and I will not (coz I hate reading :)) but I know for sure that neither Bukhoro nor Samarkand ever belonged purely to Persian or Turk people we are just what we are and you outsiders (Uzbeks and Tajiks) stop separating us into Uzbeks and Tajiks . It is impossible!!!
Bukhoro and Samarkand are cities where Turk and Persian people always lived in peace. So please don’t ever reply to messages sent by those trying to provoke us to argue with each other. The point does not worth it!!! As I have noted this issue is the HOTTEST on this board. Most of you are studying business or law so why don’t you discuss the issues of our economy instead? Let us promise right form this moment that we will never ever bother ourselves to discuss any issue provoking disputes between two nations. It is the wrong time and the wrong place !!!!! MENKIND CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT ENEMIES SO CHOSE YOUR ENEMIES BUT MAKE SURE THAT THESE ARE NOT YOUR BROTHERS! (wow , I am cool :), all rights reserved)

I know I know , I am wasting my time here :(,

Iranyar

11-25-2000, 05:43 PM

Dear Boxoro, if you had read my message carefully, you could see that I said exactly the same. Boxara and samarkand as anyother cities belongs to its own people. And I said that each country should respect the territory of another states. I don't think it's something one can disagree with me. But all I was saying is why our nations can't get closer and cooperate whith eachother?

scorpio

11-25-2000, 09:11 PM

Iranyar,
Let's stop this crap about Uzbek-Tajik-Persian heritage, what language should be in Uzbekistan and whose cities Samarkand and Buhara are. We all are pretty much satisfied with status quo and if you do not like something go and complain to UN, may be they will be able to help you.
You could not convince anyone on your message board, so do not even think of convincing someone here. OK?
It is becoming boring after so many words. If you want discussion there are zillions of other topics, for example SHOULD UMIDIES MEET IN TASHKENT THIS SUMMER OR NOT :).

Peace to your house.

scorpio.

SUN6500

11-25-2000, 09:28 PM

Yeah, whatever Mr.Caucasian... Here is my token for Iranyar's commentary:

Fifty-fifth. Armenians are guilty of genocide against people of Kokand. Because their very Dashnaktitsyun party that is ruling right now Armenia was responsible for mass slaughter of people of Kokand. And please, if haven't heard about it, learn the facts and then start issuing your points regarding it and not blatantly rejecting their guilt. Just because they were a commando under Russian Army doesn't spear their guilt of mass genocide! The same argument was applied for Serbian Army that slaughtered Bosnians and Albanians couple of years ago, as well as German Army in WWII.

Since you're using the library of Vrije Universiteit you can take some time to look up what really happened in Kokand when Dashnaks stormed it.

"but anyway no one should deny that the Khorezmians were Iranians and not Asiatic (TurcoMongolians)" -- it is very disputable, so please refrain from making any statements because you were, are and will be an outsider that has no access to all the documents concerning ethnography and history of Turkistan.

And the last. MOST of your messages were quite nurished with Pan-Persian idea of Big-Brother Iran. At least, I had this impression, and judging from other people's response they are of the same opinion as I am.

Therefore, we are here for normal exchanges of opinion WITHOUT pushing any grand ideas of any type of Big-Brotherhood or "superior race or language" (smirk).

If Persian language is loosing its interest within people of Central Asia (excluding Tajikistan) it is just a result of natural selection. There were times when Persia was a great force and people had to learn the language. There was a time when Germany was a dominant player in Europe, speaking German was a must if one wanted to succeed. So can be said about French and Spanish languages. They all had their time. But it is English language is the one people are aspiriring to learn. Russian language is slowly is loosing its grip from CA. I think Chinese will be of very big importance in years to come.
Therefore, yes Persian language is beautiful and lots of books have been written on it. We do need to preserve these books and translate to understand them. But there is no need to fall into a hysteria and start rallying around the flag to "save" persian influence in Uzbekistan. I think Uzb has done enough to preserve, protect and create neccessary conditions for persian speakers within its territory. What will happen beyond its territory is not within its jurisdiction. So, Tajikistan may as well mind its own business...

Regards...

Iranyar

11-26-2000, 05:42 AM

There is no such a thing as pan-Persian. The history of Khorezmia is not disputable at all.
Tajikistan online is not my board, I regard Tajikistan and Uzbekistan as equal, as you saw I said that all the states should respect the other states borders, but coopertion among the nations is useful, but some/most of you don't like it.

Freestyler

11-26-2000, 10:21 AM

Iranyar, what do you imply by "cooperation" between our people? Do you mean that we should quit our relations with Turkey (or at least be more selective with them) and rely more on Iran (which as you claim is a closer relative to us)?

Well as far as I know Uzbekistan is open to Iran and actually cooperates with Iran in some spheres. However this relations are based more on economic interests, rather than cultural I would say. And that is indeed quite logical if you recognise that these two people (I intentionally do not use the word nation) have different looks on the world. If Iran is a pure islamic country with rules of Shariat still in force, Uzbekistan is a secular state.

In other words, what is your ultimate intention of raising all this debate in our board?
(I am sorry I might be asking the question a bit late, but it seems as if some guys in here have missed the bulk of the discussion. You have probably noticed yourself as you had to refer to some words you had used previously in other boards).

Respectfully

To all those who wanted to ban Iranyar from this board:

Zachem yego vigonyat'? On chto narushil pravila etogo boarda? On kogo-to oskorbil? Mne do sih por kazalos' on vedyot vpolne civil'niy razgovor. Vigonyat' yego tol'ko potomu chto u nego drugiye vzglyadi ne chestno i podlo. On ved' ni kakoy nibud' tam pridurok tipa Basmacha.

SUN6500

11-26-2000, 10:28 AM

Ha, isn't this pathetic! Actually I like most of the nations, unlike you expressing hatred whatever Turkic is. The history of Khorezmia is disputable to a very reason that it is a H-I-S-T-O-R-Y, so it is quite logical to say. And I noticed this trend of yours. You're trying to do what Brits that throughout their Empire building life. Their strategy was to divide and rule! You came to this board with "Salom Dostlar" and calling everyone to civilized discussions and stuff, but all of a sudden you started pushing your agenda of Persian history and language of Uzbekistan. You tried (admit it!) to distance us from Turkey and Uzbeks from other Central Asian Nations (Kazakhs and Kyrgyz) calling them Mongoloid and us caucasian mix. Ha! So, making a logical conclusion from your arguments:

a)Iranians are caucasian
b)Tajiks are caucasian
c)Uzbeks are mixed: caucasian with oriental (or as you called mongoloid)
d)Kazakh and Kyrgyz' are mongoloid

Therefore, your message within lines was 'you Uzbeks are different from other neighbors of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. You're half caucasian but that's all right, will admit you to our all-caucasian, arian race club.'

You're full of shit! I would rather be a mongoloid than be with you sicko's of 'arian purebreed.'

Funny thing of all seeing you stating one thing, and once everyone starts objecting and criticizing you, you all of a sudden turn back and say "Gee guys, I didn't mean it,you misunderstood. This is not what I wanted to say." The last thing we want to see is another Judas on this board or another Big Brother (freakin' arian purebreed representative) to come and teach us how we should be living!!!

SUN6500

11-26-2000, 10:42 AM

Ne nado vigonyat etogo pridurka... Da tut on postarayetsa i sginet. Nam nado posmotret chto on pishet na drugom sayte. Na sayte svoix druzey..

Student

11-26-2000, 11:57 AM

Kakoi u tebya drug takoi i ti.

Ya ne hochu imeet nichego obshego s shahsey-vahseyami iransami i vsyakimi pakistansami ili arabami. Puskai oni reshayut svoi sobstvennie problemi, a ne morochat nas svoimi gnilimi diskussiyami.

Luchshe bilo bi priglashat svoih putevih druzey iz US, Germany, UK, Fr. a ne teh "umnikov" temnih persov kavkazsev ili fundamentalistov arrabov, pakistansev - zarazi vonyuchie. Terpet ne mogu ih sdes.

Alex

11-26-2000, 01:13 PM

Prichinoy moeogo podderzhaniya bana etomu irantsu bilo to chot on upryam kak osel, a predstavte esli on svoih druzey pozovet suda. Da oni vpolne normal'no tsivilizovano budut sporit', tak eto zhe pustaya trata vremeni i energii pereubezhdat' ih, vse ravno ne perubedish i tolku ot takoy diskussii netu, posstoyannie referensi k istorii, k chemu eto.

A etot mudak voobshe za svoi slova ne otvechaet , to odny pesnyu poyet to srazu druguyu...

Vsem mir,
Alex

Alex

11-26-2000, 01:18 PM

PS. Da vi tol'ko posmotrite chto etot mudak vchera napisal na http://members.boardhost.com/tajikistan/msg/4193.html

Idiot rasist tol'ko vremeni u vseh otnimaet

Sanatullo

11-26-2000, 02:07 PM

I totally agree with Buhoro!! Very good points buddy! I had the same ideas, but from Samarkand. ;)

SUN6500

11-26-2000, 03:00 PM

Guys,

Look what our "friend" Iranyar wrote on members.boardhost.com/tajikistan :
listen Alparslan Turkesh,

" There are no Turks anymore there have been nomads called by the Iranian people as such, they were a mixture of an Asiatic nomad people and East Iranian people, there have been such a nomadic group from 6th till 12th century but their ethnicity is vanished now, because they had no high civilization . If you Anatolians are so naive and stupid to call yourself Turk, do it onley for yourself. Don't call half of the world Turk. No one wants to be associated with you."

So, the conclusion coming from his argument that Persian do have a high civilization and there is no ethnicity such as Turks. Well, my oh my!!! So, 60 million population of Turkey has been mistaken for the centuries. They didn't thought of asking Iranyar for his "wisdom." Well, excuse me Mr.Perfect with all due respect I once again reiterate that you're nothing but A CHOVINIST, RACIST PIG! THAT YOUR "...cooperation among nations is useful" ARGUMENT HAD TO BE WRITTEN ON YOUR FOREHEAD SO EVERY TIME YOU LOOK AT THE MIRROR, YOU SHOULD ONCE AGAIN REMIND YOURSELF NOT TO BE A BASTARD CHOVINIST! YOU'RE WORSE THAN MIRZO, WHO AT LEAST WITHOUT ANY ADO EXPRESSES HIS OPEN HATRED TOWARD US AND NOT THE ONE WITH TWO FACES! YOU BELONG HERE! PISS OFF YOU IDIOT!

SUN6500

11-26-2000, 03:03 PM

I wanted to say <B> "YOU DON'T BELONG HERE !!!</B>
Read it in caps!

OOPS :)

11-26-2000, 06:48 PM

SUN 6500

U AGAIN MESSED UP :)

Iranyar

11-26-2000, 06:51 PM

Listen everybody,
All those name callings aside, economy and politic is not what I have any influence on it, by cooperation I mean cultural cooperation, music, litterature, cooperation in research etc...
first fortunately Iran is not quite under Shariat as it is in Saudi Arabia etc..., and one more time me and friends are living outside Iran, there are at least 10 million Iranians outside Iran and even onley a few of them in Iran are fundamentalist.

abouth my argue with Alp: If Anatolians want to call themselves Turk, it's their business but I give them no right to call us kashkai Turk, And you know better than me that my arguments are valid:The reason that the Qashqai speak a Turkopersian or anyway as that encyclopedia said Turkic, language is that the Seljuks had enslaved our people for a long time, and the kashkai federation being a military and political union, so the language of the military were Turcopersian dialects, unlike the language of the science and litterature which was Persian.
The language which was forced us by the Seljuks doesn't make us Turk. For the same reason, the Indians and the Africans are not Anglosaxons eventhough they speak English.
As you still deny the Khorezmian language, despite the written facts and call it disputable because it was history, why you don't do the same about Anatolian call themselves Turks.
All the efforts of the Anatolians call themselves Turk beagn very recent, when the PanIslamists (for example S. Jamaleddin Asadabadi Afghani and the British)got together with the Young Turk panturkist government.

anywaty if you try the whole time, change my words and accuse me of this and that, I don't see it very usefull to hang out here, I've never seen such an attitude before.

BTW, I never said that the non-Aryans are inferior to the Aryans, nor say I that I am so crazy and blind for my Aryannes, but you know every race has a name and this one is ours, no more and less than that.

cheers.

SUN6500

11-26-2000, 07:09 PM

I make judgements based on assumptions expressed on this board. As well, I see what I read and make assumptions based on it. AFAIK, your comments were offensive, uneducated, and most of all racist! Therefore, nothing has been changed, and the neccessary conclusions determined. Take a look how many people are of negative impression of you on this board. If I am mistaken, for sure these people aren't. My impression of you does not determine my whole attitude toward Iranian people. I believe there are bad people and not bad nations. Regarding Anatolians, you leave up to them how and what they call themselves, for a very reason that they do not meddle into your (Iran) business.

As far as you not willing to hang out on this site, that's your business, and if you leave, please don't think we'll be crying rivers over it.

Iranyar

11-26-2000, 07:16 PM

Problem is that the Anaolians offend my Kashkai people by their racist BS..
You have no problem with me, but with the all Iranians. You still accuse, BTW can you citate me on something which was Racist or offending to you or other Uzbeks? from t6he other side you (who I doubt is an Uzbek) did .

SUN6500

11-26-2000, 08:24 PM

You started going on Turks and on our history. We are from the same Turkic family roots, wheather you like it or not. And don't pretend that you don't know anything, that you haven't said anything. Scroll up the posts on this thread re-read what you have posted and replies to it. You have insulted this board and Uzbeks overall by your bold, biased, and unsupported statements. You almost started teaching us, about our history. The last time it happened were Russians trying to do the same thing to us. That's why I don't have any respects for you. Another name for Central Asia is Turkistan. By hating Turks, you started hating us. And without any shame you started pushing your own agenda of how Iran is better than Turkey and stuff. All the advantages, no matter what country is, are relative.

As far as your statement if I have a problem with Iranian people, I know what I believe. And I also know that I have no problems with Iranian people. In fact, I like Iranian cinematography (White Baloon, Children of Heaven, Apple) that is doing a tremendous job!
I also learned Persian, not for the hatred of it, but because I geniunly loved it.
What I cannot stand are racist bigots who try to teach us our own history!

iranyar

11-26-2000, 08:45 PM

Sun*****

you'r opinion is yours don't speak on behalf of each Uzbek (which you are most probably not!)

If you are not from Anatolia (which you are indeed), then my problems with those guys has nothing to do with you.

please say something positive instead of allways the same things, we already know what is your political idea's.

iranyar

11-26-2000, 09:05 PM

Sun6500 I had forgotten your number so I used **** ;)

Muhim savol

11-26-2000, 10:35 PM

Bollar javob yozvorilar, iltimos

Avvalo Ramazon oyi muborak hammalaringa. Shu oyda biz ham ruza tutishimiz kerakmi? kimdir uydan uzoqda busa tutilmidi deganini eshitganday buludim. Shunga javob yozvorilar, iltimos
Rahmat

SUN6500

11-27-2000, 08:07 AM

Iran####,

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but I am Uzbek. So I do have to a degree to authority to represent, as you do to represent your kashkai people. The only way to prove it is to speak that language with you. But I don't think you can handle it, because you don't know. Your so called "positive things" so far has been insulting the board and nations, so don't you preach me how to behave here. And what do you mean "we know.." ??? You mean, you know and not we. You can use your tactic of dividing people back where you came from, and not here.
No, I am not from Anatolia, but I brought that example to depict you bigotry.

PS. Iranyar forgot last letters of your name so I used # instead ;)

Cute

11-27-2000, 08:47 AM

Iranyar
As you can see Sun6500 is uzbek, and he is right(about Turkistan and etc, we think like him). I have a question why do you always separate people, you tried to do this with sun6500. In the other board it was the same, why do you always blame people, as being turkic racists who want to bring their political idea etc and etc?

Iranyar

11-27-2000, 11:24 AM

It is not me but the grey wolves who want to separate people.

PS. to speak Uzbek doesn't make you Uzbek. I know a guy from Istabnbul who speaks Persian better than me, and I speak german , am I german? Nyet!

I can only laugh at your accusations that I'm the one who tries to divide people, for example read my messages to the Tajiks, when they attacked Asiatic people, I urged them not to do so, and also I was the first one on the boards who said that the Tajiks and Uzbeks are the same nation, with two languages and its better for them both to unite.

Admiral

11-27-2000, 11:50 AM

Dear Iranyar,
To start, with all respect to your contribution to promote the stability and peace on both uzbek and tajik message boards, I'd like to thank you. Second, don't get angry on some of my fellows' feedbacks. I am sure they all have some support behind their arguments, likewise you do too. As an old Uzbek saying says, "the mind is divided equally among all people." t.e. everyone thinks of himself or herself very wise. Let it be it. Please, keep up your attitude.
thanks for your attention,
no offense, please

SUN6500

11-27-2000, 01:23 PM

My God, that's right... Iranyar I have to admit you've got me. Actually I am of Austrian desent and my father's side is linked to Monaco Royals. My mother's side is half Bavarian + Saxon. I speak Uzbek because I worked with Tajiks in drug smuggling operation so I can pretend to be Uzbek for Uzbek officials, so they wouldn't notice me.

P.S. Next time, come up with something smarter, Iranyar. And grey wolves, red squirrels aside, admit you have tried to divide (and I think you will further do the same) nations here in the board. Guess what, it ain't going to work.

Freestyler

11-28-2000, 06:34 AM

As an old Uzbek saying says, "the mind is divided equally among all people." (By Admiral)
Da, klassno zvuchit konechno.

Kak govoritsya kolichestvo uma na zemle postoyanno, a naseleniye rastyot...

Admiral, don't take it personally

Iranyar

11-28-2000, 11:45 AM

Admiral thamx :)

Iranyar

11-28-2000, 12:31 PM

for those who think that i want to divide and rule or take side look at these messages at the tajik board

TAKE THAT SAMARKAND/BUKHARA WEATHER DOWN YOU IDIOTS
Tell a friend about this message!

Posted by Anti-Moron on November 27, 2000, 3:42 am
170.140.92.127

THEY ARE IN UZBEKISTAN AND IN NO WAY RELATED TO THE REPUBLIC OF TAJIKISTAN!!!!! YOU RASIST IDIOTS!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Responses:

The state's borders are protected by the international law.Just a fact. Iranyar November 27, 2000, 5:42 am

The state's borders are protected by the international law.Just a fact.
Tell a friend about this message!

Posted by Iranyar on November 27, 2000, 5:42 am , in reply to "TAKE THAT SAMARKAND/BUKHARA WEATHER DOWN YOU IDIOTS"
213.197.4.82

I guess from your postings u are Scorpio, right?

Well Scorpio, I didn't want to involve in this dispute, but I wanted to tell something abot the International law.
Each state who becomes independent signs the un treaties and accept that the other sates territorial integrity should be respected.

So take it easy man,look at Europe is uniting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MegaZ

11-28-2000, 12:43 PM

SUN6500: Your comments rule ! :)

titus pullo

04-30-2006, 09:44 PM

DEAR IRANYAR

Why do you waist your time and energy trying to explain and trying to reason with blind people.
People like Alex who say turkey has a better reputation than Iran. As long as I remember Iran didn't kill near one million Armenians.
Dear Alex I don't know what are you talking about when you say reputation, I bet you are one of those who is proud of the Armenian genocide.

Tabriz_Han

05-01-2006, 10:28 AM

Iranyar
to speak Uzbek doesn't make you Uzbek. I know a guy from Istabnbul who speaks Persian better than me,

Your mother language is your Nation, if Ozbek Turkish was the language your mother bought you up to speak and the environment you were raised in that's what you will be.

My mother language is Turkche, my parents raised me and we spoke this language, have this culture and are part of the Turkish nation.

[/URL]

Irankhar
I am from Esfahan, I didn't chose side in that argue, but I didn't liked some people proposed prohibitian of Persian Language which has been Lingua Franca and the litterary language of Uzbekistan from the 10th till mid 20th century and worse than people (who I doubt were Uzbeks) proclaiming Turkey's theories and justified Genocide on the Armenians and Kurds by Turkey, every body can see that those statements were not right

How dare you even come here with the AUDACITY of complaining about language's.

I am from Tabriz, my motherlanguage, our beautiful language TURKISH is outlawed, banned and restricted by Pan-Persian Animals who are so scared and hatefull to Turks.

Isfahan by the way is an old Selcuk Turk capitol, everything you see around you was built by our people, don't you just love where you live :cool:

Their racist attitude is a plague to humanity, for years we were told were not Turks, were not allowed to speak Turkish, not allowed to learn it in school.

People like IRANYAR, are faithfull followers of the Shah Pahlavi and his foolish lies.

They think because there was once a Persian Empire thousands of years ago that all these lands are still Persian :rolleyes:

Just look at this site

[URL="http://www.Pan-Iranism.com"]www.Pan-Iranism.com (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri/Qashqais/Qashqais.html)

They are PETRIFIED because the largest group in Iran are Turks, they live in fear and hatred of this fact.

Also they hate history. For 2000 years Turks have been the dominant force in this region, we ruled, we bought civilisation here, we spread Islam and built all the buildings that you see around you.

This is like a needle in the eye for Pan-Persians.

They hate it and so try to claim ridiculous things and believe it was actually them who ruled lol.

Our problem was, our forefathers were so tolerant, so humanitarian that we never enforced our Language and Culture on others. We could have completely Turkified the whole of Iran and not left a Persian speaker alive.

I mean look at the America's today they all speak Spanish or English, this shows that we could have done the same very easily.

However, we are victims of our own goodwill. We let Persians language survive, we let Nations be as they wish, we let all minorities be free.

Iran is Iran because of the Turks and now people like IRANYAR don't want to give us any credit.

There idiotic lies, they say the same to Azeri Turks, that we spoke Persian untill 100 years ago and it was the official language.

The official language was Turkish we spoke this language for 4000 years.

He talks about Kurds? :lol: , Kurds of Iran HATE Iran, they want to have revolution and leave.

Why don't you tell us about PEJAK?

Or why the Kurds rebelled and made a Kurdish republic in Iran.

Oh about the Armenians.

Its a shame the SO-CALLED Islamic Republic of Iran doesn't give a damn about their so-called muslim Azeri Turk brothers.

We suffered many genocides by Armenia, so have the Turks of Turkey yet they keep silent.

What about Karabag? Khodjali, today Iran supports the Illegal Occupation of Azerbaycan's land by Armenia. That's the SO-CALLED Islamic republic for you.

Look at these vidoes, this is what happened to us just 20 years ago, Iran supports the Armenians who did this against us.

http://www.khojaly.org/video/

The horror of Khojaly in Chingiz Mustafayev's camera

http://www.chingizmustafayev.com/video/xojali1.mpg (video)

http://www.chingizmustafayev.com/vid...ali2.mpg(video (http://www.chingizmustafayev.com/video/xojali2.mpg(video))

http://www.khojaly.org/?id=3010 (list of killed people in Khojaly)
http://www.khojaly.org.az:8101/eyewitn.html (eyewitnesses)
http://www.come.to/khojaly
http://www.khojaly.org.az:8101/video.html (video’s)
http://www.khojaly.tripod.com/
http://www.khojaly.org.az:8101/photos.html

Azerbaijan's innocent people were massacred, their land Illegally occupied, these are the facts.

Nagorno-Karabagh: The world’s forgotten genocide?

http://www.internationalspecialrepor...okarabagh.html

Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 (Hardcover)

The Ottoman Empire suffered five and a half million dead and five million refugees. He deems this Europe's largest lost of life and emigration since the Thirty Years' War. Christian suffering in this time and place is well-known; McCarthy shows the other side, that "Muslim communities in an area as large as all of western Europe had been diminished or destroyed." His study minutely reviews the regions and wars, pulling information from foreign and Ottoman sources to produce a compelling account.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/704

Why doesn't he care about this?

Ozbekistan is the heart-land of Amir Timur, heartland of Babur Han, they are my fore-fathers my ROOTS, my great Turk family and those who are jelous, enivous and want to harm us like the Pan-Persians can rot in hell.

They have massacred the Azeri Turks of Iran who too long, their regime doesn't have long left.

Here is the true face of these people

http://nejhadegan.blogspirit.com/ (http://nejhadegan.blogspirit.com/)

http://neonazim.blogfa.com/8404.aspx (http://neonazim.blogfa.com/8404.aspx)

http://www.persianproject.com/Goals.html (http://www.persianproject.com/Goals.html)

http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/aryantruth.htm (http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/aryantruth.htm)

http://sumka.blogfa.com/ (http://sumka.blogfa.com/)

Disgusting hey :(

Oh and trying to compare Iran to Turkey, jeeez you people are funny, do you know how Iran is viewed in the world? yea as a state stuck in the Dark-Ages, who treats woman like Dirt, funds terrorism and as a repressive, un-democratic regime.

In other words, nobody wants to be like or visit Iran thanks to people like You.

I have been to Turkey, its amazing and moving forwards rapidly.

People don't listen to these wacko''s lies, their just upset that their retarded Cause is DEAD lol, there are no serious movements by them, just extremist Aryan mumbo-jumbo's. They arn't welcome in South Azerbaycan!!! Awhaz Iran!, Baluch Iran!, Turkmen-Al-Sahra!

They Iran's biggest danger, if people like IRANYAR carry on, Iran will be divided into about 10 countries.

They don't realise that they are their own worst enemy.

Turks and Pers people have been friends, these guys hate this fact!

Tabriz_Han

05-01-2006, 11:06 AM

What is wrong with this guy, I havn't read someone from Turkey even give a comment on this post yet he's just attacking and trying to insult our bro's and sister's there and make us hate them, why?

Stop being jelous and bitter, were not Iranian and your not doing a good job promoting it, quite the opposite, you REPUSLE me of Iran to the stage you make readers want to Vomit after reading your hate-filled comments.

IranKhar
About being friends: that was my intention when I came here, at the Tajik board they were more friendly, so they were at the Armenian board,and even at the Turkish board they were more friendly

LOL, people like you are not welcome anywhere, that's why you need to roam around forum's trying to divide people, spread hatred and desperately try to make friends of Iran.

YOur not a very good ambassador lol

IranKHAR
And by the God sake, who says that the khorezmians were Turks, for your info they are more white than Uzbeks of tashkent and Farghona, and in this case it is very obvious, there are still text remained in Khorezmian language, belonging to the east Iranian brunch.

Oh my you really are somthing arnt you.

So now Khorezmians arnt Turks either :lol: , Xorasan Turks arnt Turks? so they just miraculously talk Turkish, call themselves Turks, oh but theyre not are they, as Shah Pahlavi said, they speak the language of Cengiz and are in Denial that they are Iranians and just want to become Turks.

This is another classical "Pan-Persian" argument, they call us Azeri Turks, Kaskay, Xorasan Turks, WANNABE TURKS :rolleyes: they say were just trying to join the Turks and forget that were really Persian :rolleyes: this infuriates them and they think to themselves, why do people leave our nation to them.

This paranoid idiotic thinking then leads them to be jelous and hate-filled towards Turks.

They unbelievably then blame this all on Turkey or Azerbaijan or Turkmenistan or Ozbekistan, that they somehow are tricking us and brainwashing us, bla bla bla.

Yeah I know it sounds ludacris doesn't it.

Khorasani Turkish[kmz] 500,000 (1977 Doerfer). Northeast Iran, in the northern part of Khorasan Province, especially northwest of Mashhad. West dialect in Bojnurd Region; north dialect in Quchan Region (probably the largest), south dialect around Soltanabad near Sabzevar. Alternate names: Quchani. Dialects: West Quchani (Northwest Quchani), North Quchani (Northeast Quchani), South Quchani. Midway linguistically between Azerbaijani and Turkmen, but not a dialect of either. Oghuz-Uzbek in Uzbekistan is reported to be a dialect. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkish

Today there population is alot higher that was taken in 1977.

I'll tell you something about them Turkmens of Anatolia still get the heritage of Khorasan. They call themselves sometimes as "Khorasan Erenleri", "Khorasan Alp Erenleri".

IranKHAR
i have never said that Central Asia should be part of what is called today Iran

Good because its Turkestan.

As the legendary Amir Timur said,

"Biz ki Mülük-i Turan, Emir-i Türkistan'ız:
(We are the possessors of Turan and Emir of Turkestan)

Biz ki Türk oğlu Türk'üz;
(We are real Turks that are the sons of Turks)

Biz ki milletlerin en kadîmî ve en ulusu
(We are the members of the oldest and the highest nation)

Türk'ün başbuğuyuz!..."
(We are the leaders of Turks)

Ibn Khaldun the great historian of historians who met him had this to write

Ibn Khaldun
"You know how the power of the Arabs was established when they became united in their religion in following their Prophet. As for the Turks ... in their group solidarity, no king on earth can be compared with them, not Chosroes nor Caesar nor Alexander nor Nebuchadnezzar."

Tamerlane demurred on a technical point: Nebuchadnezzar was not a king, "he was only one of the Persian generals, just as I myself am only the representative of the sovereign on the throne." Tamerlane had married the widow of the old Khan; the present monarch - his stepson - was with him on the expedition

IranKHAR
Listen if that ignorant guy, called up, has opened up a propaganda campaign that we Kashkai are Turk, it shows Turkey's imperialist behaviour

:lol:

Is this guy for real? now maybe people of Ozbekistan don't know alot about Kaskay and so IranYar thinks he can spread these Lies, Kaskay are Afshar Turks the largest Semi-Nomadic Clan of Iran with around 2-3 million people.

There are patriotic Turks lol, what on Earth are you comming here telling lies for? if anything they have more in common with Arabs than Persians, there is a Turco-Arab tribe called the Khamseh, who are a beautiful mix.

They speak Turkish and Arabic in this tribe in the Ahwaz region of Iran.

Qashqa'i[qxq] 1,500,000 (1997). Southwestern Iran, Fars Province and Southern Kohgiluyeh va Boyerahmad Province. Shiraz, Gachsaran, and Firuzabad are centers. Alternate names: Qashqay, Qashqai, Kashkai. Dialects: Very close to Azerbaijani. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Azerbaijani
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Iran

KASGAY TURKS http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0008/0008_12.htm

http://www.qashqai.net/qashqai.html

The Oghuz Turks (also with various alternate spellings, including Oguz, Oğuz, Ouz, Okuz, Oufoi, Guozz and Ghuzz) are regarded as one of the major branches of Turkic peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples).
The Oghuz Turks are the ancestors of today's Southwestern Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Southwestern_Turks&action=edit) whose numbers are more than 150 million and inhabit areas of western Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Asia) and eastern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe). These include Azerbaijanis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijanis) of the Republic of Azerbaijan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Azerbaijan) and Iranian Azarbaijan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Azarbaijan), Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people) of Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey) and Northern Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Republic_of_Northern_Cyprus), the Balkan Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Balkan_Turks&action=edit) of the Balkan peninsula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_peninsula) (Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece), Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria) and the former Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia)), the Turkmens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmens) of Turkmenistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan) and northeastern Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran), the Qashqai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qashqai) and Khorasani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khorasan) Turks of Iran, as well as the Gagauz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz) (Gokoguz) Turks of Moldova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldova).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks

The Qashqais of Iran Prepared by Iraj Bashiri
Copyright (c) Iraj Bashiri 2002

Turkic and Iranian Tribes Turkish and Iranian tribes have lived in close proximity of each other since ancient times, as early as the days of the Achaemenian dynasty. Cyrus III the Great (BC 559-530), the founder of the Persian Empire, was killed in the East fighting tribes hostile to his rule. The first substantial political contact between the Turks and the Persians took place in the latter part of the rule of the Sassanian dynasty, especially under Qubad (AD 488-496 and 499-531) and Piruz. There was no attempt at a direct rulership of the Iranian lands by the Turks at this time.

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri/Qashqais/Qashqais.html

Did you read that,

Turkish and Iranian tribes have lived in close proximity of each other since ancient times

Don't hate your brothers, your closer to Turks than anyone else ;)

Accept the realities, you arn't a pure Aryan race of people, you have mixed and mixed and mixed with Turks since ancient times.

Welcome to the family :)

Tabriz_Han

05-01-2006, 12:08 PM

IranYar is a shamefull lier, he claims Turkish was enforced onto people of Iran, we speak Turkish cos we are Turks of Iran. If we forced our language there would not be a single Persian speaker on this Earth we could have very easily wiped them out.

Now he claims he is a KasKay Turk

http://www.gospelrecordings.com/catalog/audio/C08140A.mp3 (http://[url=/)]

http://www.gospelrecordings.com/catalog/audio/C08140B.mp3 (http://[url=/)]

Here are two recordings, its very clear their language is Turkish, the recording is not very good however, I'm sure some of the Ozbek Turks here will be able to pick up some words and see that these people definately are not Persian and don't speak Farsi.

IranKHAR
As you pretend that the Uzbeks don't hate the Iranians you are wrong, I was since last month a great fan of Yulduz, your singer, she sang before in Persian too, last time she doesn't sing in Persian anymore and goes to Turkey to give concert,

:lol:

He's doing it again, feeling sorry for himself and bashing Turkey. Face-it Yulduz wants to go to Turkey not Iran, Yulduz is a Turk what;s wrong with going to Turkey?

Why lie?

I have been and can say its in a much better state than my native homeland.

So what, Persian is not a popular language anymore, YOUR JUST LIKE THE FRENCH, angry, bitter and jelous that its not the major language you think it is.

French hate the Brittish because today English is a much stronger, widely spoken and influential language.

Everyone wants to learn English, who wants to learn French thesedays? there's no point.

Its the same with Persian.

Turkish is more popular today than Persian, now there are 7 Turk Countries, 10 million Turks in Europe, 2 million in America, lots of people want to live, trade and do business in these area's, they are opening lots of schools everywhere, writting lots of literature, making films have alot of tourism and today have alot more influence than Persian.

Today Iran doesn't offer alot of prospects to those outside Iran, Persian is only speaken by 30 million in Iran natively, Dari is understood in most of Afganistan.

I don't see Persian schools, large population of speakers, literature's, films, influence, there is no need to learn it today if your not Persian and no need to sing in it if your not Persian.

I know its hard for you to accept this but the language you tried so very hard to oppress and wipe out from Iran is now back, back and getting stronger everyday and a much more important global language than Persian. ;)

p.s, Why don't Persian Diaspora teach their kids Farsi? I have lots of Persian friends in the West they don't know their language and are EMBARRASED to say they are from Iran.

Whereas, the Azeri and other Turks teach their kids Turkish and are proud to be a Turk and tell everyone this :cool:

iRANKHAR
but the pro-Turkey elements have spoiled this enormous opportunity of Uzbekistan.

What's wrong with you, were you beaten up and knocek sensless by people of Turkey or somthing, you've got a worrying paranoia and hatred against the.

Here's a shocker, Turkey didn't drop out the sky, Turkey didn't make Ozbekistan pro-Turk, Ozbek Turks made Turkey Turks you dufus, they didn't drop out the sky, Turkey National route is in Turkestan in regards to language, culture, history, religion, society etc.

Ozbekistan/Turkestan is the root of Turkey, its natural for them to have good relations and get ever closer to their nation.

What your doing is like telling a child that they cannot contact their parents, Azerbaycan,Turkey all Turks West of the Caspian Sea are the Children of Ozbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhistan etc its natural to have great relations and one day move towards a pollitical union.

IranKhar
In Georgia for example the Armenians and Georgians are hostile to each other, but in Iran there is no hatred between us

1. You are a lier, Armenians are viewed as weasels and nobody give's their children to marry them.
2. Its the policy of Iran to oppress Turks and support the Armenian agression and occupation of Azerbaijan's lands.

The so-called Islamic Republic of Iran treats Armenians better than Sunni Muslims who arnt allowed to study in University.

Irankhar
we Iranian Georgians are moslims unlike those Christians in Georgia

Yet more stories, what are the Abaza? Abkhaz? Meshket Turks? Azeri Turks? Ajars? Georgia has great relations with Azerbaycan and Turkey and is looking to bring back the Turks that Stalin ethnically cleansed from the region.

Don't get too worried.

IranYar
Yulduz manger in Netherlands is black, and it is the reason that she allways has two black girls in the background in her concerts in Europe. This dammages the autencity of her music.

This is DISGUSTING, why are you so racist. What's wrong with Black people? ARE THEY NOT HUMANS!, there are really lovely friendly Black people and they're very good at music and famous throughout the West for their music! so its actually a GOOD thing to have a Black Manager, they may understand the music industry of the West and the music culture better.

IranKHAR
I am white, Caucasian, So if the majority of the Iranians are caucasian

What is it with you wacko's, YOUR NOT WHITE :lol: , your Dark, be proud of what you are, stop thinking your a White Aryan Pure people its a joke.

The Persians I know have Black hair, dark skin, some have curly hair.

In the West they're called Arab's or Turks or Paki's.

Face it, no White Supremacist would ever let you into the club, go to a Neo-Nazi White meeting lets see how "White" you are then.

Most of Iran's people are dark, the Turks are not fullly Caucasian, the Arabs are not fully Caucasian, the Arabs and Turks of Iran make up 30-35 million people so please WAKE-UP.

PURE RACES DO NOT EXIST! THERE ARE NO PURE WHITE MYTHOLOGICAL ARYAN RACES, YOU'VE ALL MIXED WITH US DARKIES LOL

I'D RATHER BE THE MOST DARK-SKINNED PERSON OR THE MOST MONGOLOID PERSON ON THIS EARTH RATHER THAN A PAN-ARYAN WHITE SCUMBAG.

How's Sumka doing?

http://sumka.blogfa.com/ (http://sumka.blogfa.com/)