Американская Культура?!

[Mubina]

Assalyam Alaykum,
У меня вопрос ко всем,
многие из вас были в Америке, многие там находятся,
лично я не была там,
но всё же....
Мне кажется, что "американская культура" позволяет себе очень многое
в рамках "Демократии", американцы делают что-хотят, как-хотят, перед -кем хотят".....(порой выходят за рамки общепринятых норм поведения, лично мне так кажется )
Я лично это понимаю как некультурие, и неуважение к окружающим
Может быть я ошибаюсь... Но позвольте заметить "культура" позволяет
не так уж и многое, как этого себе позволяет "Американская",
Конечно, я могу простить им их выходки как "иностранцам", но не как "культурным людям"
Как на это смотрите Вы?

Спасибо заранее,
Мубина

[Dummie]

I would call it postmodernism where no boundaries exists. Rejection of distinction between what is "right" and "wrong".
This attitude exists not only America but everywhere else only in US it is much more developed.

[Webbie]

Probably this "culture" evolved from equal rights, freedom etc...
Zdes', no one cares about anyone, of what they might think if one does this this or that. In other countries people are aware of the majority influence, but here people are free to do whatever they want and probably that's why they are "takie kul'turnie".... :)

Sincerely, WEBgirl

[chicagoan]

Assalyam Alaykum,
У меня вопрос ко всем,
многие из вас были в Америке, многие там находятся,
лично я не была там,
но всё же....
Мне кажется, что "американская культура" позволяет себе очень многое
в рамках "Демократии", американцы делают что-хотят, как-хотят, перед -кем хотят".....(порой выходят за рамки общепринятых норм поведения, лично мне так кажется )
Я лично это понимаю как некультурие, и неуважение к окружающим
Может быть я ошибаюсь... Но позвольте заметить "культура" позволяет
не так уж и многое, как этого себе позволяет "Американская",
Конечно, я могу простить им их выходки как "иностранцам", но не как "культурным людям"
Как на это смотрите Вы?

Спасибо заранее,
Мубина

assalamu alaykum,

diagnosis of American cultural cancer is KUFR. ....Kufr is the CAUSE of any kind of moral degradation.
Freedom, liberty, constitution, and etc are just means that perpetuate KUFR.

wassalam,

mr

[Webbie]

assalamu alaykum,

diagnosis of American cultural cancer is KUFR. ....Kufr is the CAUSE of any kind of moral degradation.
Freedom, liberty, constitution, and etc are just means that perpetuate KUFR.

wassalam,

mr


WEll, basically what u did is gave a name to this whole thing...kak KUFR rasshifrovivaetsya?

[Dummie]

"Probably this "culture" evolved from equal rights, freedom etc...
No its evolved from impunity.
Equal rights and freedom have never been an impediment for prosperity and never had negative impact.

Paradox KUFR is so strong that many people including some, congregating near to it as a blind insects flying to the hot bulb.
chicagoan
Freedom, liberty, constitution, and etc are just means that perpetuate KUFR.
Can you explain this sentence. What did you mean by freedom and liberty are just the means that perpetuate KUFR?

[chicagoan]

No its evolved from impunity.
Equal rights and freedom have never been an impediment for prosperity and never had negative impact.

Paradox KUFR is so strong that many people including some, congregating near to it as a blind insects flying to the hot bulb.
chicagoan

Can you explain this sentence. What did you mean by freedom and liberty are just the means that perpetuate KUFR?http://www.islamicgarden.com/kaffirkufr.html

assalamu alaykum,

above is one site with the definition of KUFR, but allow me to explain with my own words.

KUFR is covering up truth - ALLAH, HIS One and Only deen, Qur'an, and the TRUTH. Leading people astray - be it communism, democracy or dictatorship - is KUFR.

Making TAWAF (ziyorat) of statue of LIBERTY is KUFR.

Spreading pornography (under the guise of FREEDOM of SPEECH and PRESS) is KUFR.

Legalizing homosexual marriages (under the smoke of EQUAL RIGHTS) is KUFR.

Inventing new laws (whether by Parliament or Congress) is KUFR.

KUFR, KUFR, KUFR.

I think the above paragraphs r enough to give y'all some clues how FREEDOM, LIBERTY and so forth r used to perpetuate KUFR in a society.

Last but not least, a human being has a very short period to live...50-60 years...maybe few years more? Fill that space with anything (music, sports, pornography, parties, and etc, you name it), but not ISLAM, and you get a KAFIR human being, and KAFIR society....



wassalam,

mr

[Webbie]

yeah, and someone said that freedom has nothing to do with anythin negative.....

[Dummie]

Hi firstly sorry for delay but I was away from computer.

Webgirl you may skip this part.

Chicagoan, The freedom you reckon that I might be thinking is SIN. Moreover one must use another term instead freedom when describing the decaying of society. I would use impunity instead and would avoid saying that this is freedom and liberty which caused the moral destruction of society.
Again I would say that if you don’t like “freedom” which you enjoying in USA you have plenty choices. For instance Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela are the least pluralistic countries in the world. No freedom no liberty.
But if you don’t satisfy with that you have other options. Turkmenistan, Syria and several other countries also don’t have any freedom and simultaneously you will have no freedom of faith. Finally Uzbekistan. No need to describe the situation there because you know better than me.

This is what I wanted to say myself. Without being too boring I would like to cut&paste fatwa from islamonline.net about freedom in Islam read it and go carefully into crux of the matter. This is exactly my standpoint. I don’t know who asked this question but if he didn’t I would ask myself in order to convince.

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
From "Ask the Scholar" section on IslamOnline.net

Question
Dear scholars, as-Salamu `alaykum. What does Islam say on freedom? Are there any limitations on freedom? Jazakum Allah khayran.

Answer
Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.


In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.



All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.


Dear brother in Islam, thanks you for the great confidence you repose in us. We hope that our efforts meet your expectations. May Allah help us all keep firm on the Straight Path. Ameen.

Islam is the religion of freedom and peace. It has provided the people with freedom as never been witnessed by any other system throughout history. The Qur’an, the Sunnah of the Prophet, and the practices of rulers expressed how much Islam values freedom in all aspects of life: the spiritual, political, economic, and social matters.

As for your question, we’d like to cite for you what Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, stated in his khutbah at the Islamic Society of Orange County, California, USA on Rabi` Thani 23, 1425 / June 11, 2004:

“Almighty Allah says, “Allah is the protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the Evil Ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (forever)” (Al-Baqarah: 257).

He also says, “We have honored the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favors, above a great part of Our Creation” (Al-Isra’: 70).



Islam teaches that you live with freedom and you must equally wish and work for the freedom of others. Freedom and equality are interrelated. We cannot practice freedom without practicing equality. However, it is important to remember that freedom in Islam means freedom to do good, not freedom to do anything that you like. In the Arabic language the word hurr does not mean only “free” but it also means “noble.” The whole religion of Islam is to protect and promote freedom. Islam emphasizes human dignity, and it is freedom that brings dignity to human beings. It opens their minds and souls to reach to higher and higher goals. Human beings cannot be called honored and dignified unless they are free.

Human freedom is not against Allah’s power and knowledge. In Islam we believe in Allah’s qada’ and qadar (destiny and predetermination). This means that Allah knows everything of past, present, and future, and He has power over everything. However, by His own will and power, Allah has given us the freedom to choose. He gave us the free will, but this does not mean that He does not know what we do or He has no power over us. The concept of freedom is also not against the Islamic concept of `ubudiyyah (service) to Allah. Islam itself gives us the idea of freedom as well as that of service and obedience of our Creator. The foundation of Islam is submission to Allah alone. Therefore, the Islamic concept of freedom is to remove any absolute authority over the individual, for such authority negates the very gifts that Allah has granted him. Submission to Allah is by necessity realized within the context of freedom. It is intrinsically tied in with responsibility.

Freedom in Islam is not freedom from moral obligations and responsibilities or freedom from truth, justice, virtue, and righteousness. Freedom from these values is not freedom, but anarchy and corruption. Islam says that human beings must be free mentally, spiritually, as well as physically.

Islam ensures religious freedom for all people. “There should not be any compulsion in religion” (Al-Baqarah: 256). People should be free to practice their religion, but they should not force their religion on others. Similarly Islam allows freedom of expression, but people should not utter falsehood and lies. Islam teaches political freedom so that people choose their leaders by their own consent, and if the leaders are dishonest or incapable then people remove them from their office. Islam allows economic freedom. People should be free to earn and to own as much as they want but without indulging in fraud, deception, and cheating.

Islam teaches freedom of the soul, mind, and body.
Islam teaches freedom of the individual and the society.
Islam teaches freedom in this world and in the Hereafter.

In the Qur’an the concept of freedom is described with many words and expressions, such as hurr (free) or tahrir (making a slave free); najat (protection, salvation); fawz (reaching the target, achieving the goal); and falah (total well-being, flowering of the potential, fulfillment of the latent qualities). In the Hadith it is called `itq (emancipation and liberation).

Freedom has both positive and negative connotations: freedom for something and freedom from something. Islam wants freedom for living a happy, healthy, prosperous, moral, and dignified life. Islam wants people to be free to worship, to express themselves, to earn, to have family, and to have a government of their choice. On the other hand, Islam wants people to be free from economic, political, and social oppression. Islam wants people to be free from materialism and selfishness. Islam wants people to be free from religious persecution. Finally and most importantly, Islam wants people to be free from Hell in the eternal life and to live happily in Paradise in the company of Allah.

It was Muslims who taught the world the ideals of freedom, equality, and justice. However, today the Muslim Ummah in general is not practicing these ideals. Our societies are suffering from oppression, injustice, and inequality. Muslims should be in the forefront of the movement of freedom for themselves and for the world. We should not shy away from talking about the political freedom, economic freedom, social freedom, religious freedom, human rights, rights of minorities, rights of women, etc. All these rights and freedoms are recognized and promoted by Islam. We should try to establish these rights and freedoms in Muslim societies and in the world, taking guidance from the Qur’an, the Sunnah and the great Muslim heritage.”
Source: islamonline.

In bold the political freedom which was our debate not long time ago.


Chicagoan you may skip this part.

Webgirl firstly we must clarify what freedom and liberty is.
Freedom is "the power to choose and determine one's position". As such, man should choose and decide carefully on a course of action which would bestbenefit himself and others.
Look to the bold word. Exactly BENEFIT but not destruct. Freedom doesn’t mean moral destruction: drink alchohol, use drugs, and to be involved for the illegal actions which certainly harm the person and people surrounding him.
Freedom means not only have rights but also have certain obligations.
I want to avoid long monotonous speech about the freedom but shortly want to say that all things what you consider as a fruits of freedom can be found also in other political regimes the brightest example is Uzbekistan which is among the worst of the worst according to the freedom house. So as you see there is nothing to do with freedom but it is just the idleness of society, parents, teachers and so on.

[Webbie]

Webgirl you may skip this part.

?????????????????

[Dummie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dummie
Webgirl you may skip this part.


?????????????????

Ensen qotmasin dedimde. KUFR nimaligini bilmaganingdan keyin Uzun bitta fatvoni tushinarmiding?
I tried to reply according to your capacity of understanding the matter. If you carefully paid attention you would find my reply for you right after the part which I requested you to skip.

Sincerely WebDummie

[Royal]

Ensen qotmasin dedimde. KUFR nimaligini bilmaganingdan keyin Uzun bitta fatvoni tushinarmiding?
I tried to reply according to your capacity of understanding the matter. If you carefully paid attention you would find my reply for you right after the part which I requested you to skip.

Sincerely WebDummie

Dummie

Bir narsadan habarsiz bolganligini bilib shuni bilgan bolganizdan keyin oz bilganizcha tushuntirish sizni qarzizmasmi ?

Agar yahshilab oz yolida tushuntirishga harakat qilsayiz manimcha ensasi qotmasligi mumkin, agar tushuntirmasdan gapirvursayiz unda yuzi qotishi mumkin!!

[Royal]

Amerikani madaniyati bu - Depsotizm.
Blatnoy, Besperedel !!!

[uki]

Ensen qotmasin dedimde. KUFR nimaligini bilmaganingdan keyin Uzun bitta fatvoni tushinarmiding?
I tried to reply according to your capacity of understanding the matter. If you carefully paid attention you would find my reply for you right after the part which I requested you to skip.

Sincerely WebDummie
KUFRni bilgan odam bunaqa yozmasdi...

[uki]

Amerikanskaya kultura-eto otsutstvie kakoy nibud kulturi...

[Dummie]

Royal thanks for your piece of advice but seems neither you nor uki understand my intention, and thus I reckon your post is anachronic one.
I can't build roof without having strong fundament. I only asked user to skip part of post because I afraid that my long and monotonous post will not have any effect and I tried to reply according to each user's understanding capacity. chicagoan stressed that freedom is the threshold for the KUFR webgirl said that all bad habits were evolved from freedom I tried to defend my standpoint thus I replied them separately and asked each to skip the part which was not reply for them. If I didn't do that my post would be anachronic one like yours. I hope we understand each other and I will take your advice into consideration and try to use it as soon as I will have the favourable conditions.

Uki will you please enlighten me what kind of reply must one post if he knows what the KUFR is?

[chicagoan]

Hi firstly sorry for delay but I was away from computer.

Webgirl you may skip this part.

Chicagoan, The freedom you reckon that I might be thinking is SIN. Moreover one must use another term instead freedom when describing the decaying of society. I would use impunity instead and would avoid saying that this is freedom and liberty which caused the moral destruction of society.
Again I would say that if you don’t like “freedom” which you enjoying in USA you have plenty choices. For instance Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela are the least pluralistic countries in the world. No freedom no liberty.
But if you don’t satisfy with that you have other options. Turkmenistan, Syria and several other countries also don’t have any freedom and simultaneously you will have no freedom of faith. Finally Uzbekistan. No need to describe the situation there because you know better than me.


Dummie, assalam,

read my posts again. I never said freedom is BAD.

I used phrases like "UNDER THE GUISE OF FREEDOM", and "the smoke of ..."

I am all for FREEDOM, the way ALLAH meant for mankind.

Islamic countries always gave religious, economic, and political freedom to their non-muslim citizens.

I criticized FREEDOM the way AMERICANS perceive it.

Indeed, perceptions are important...

wassalam,

mr

[Mirzabek]

Man tushunmadim....
AMerikashkalarda Madaniyat bormi o'zi...

hamma narsani toplab olvolgan madaniyat bor mi u yerda...

omadla

[chicagoan]

Man tushunmadim....
AMerikashkalarda Madaniyat bormi o'zi...

hamma narsani toplab olvolgan madaniyat bor mi u yerda...

omadla

...In decision science there is a saying: "If you make no decision, that becomes your decision". Likewise, since Americans have no culture - that became their culture....

wassalam,

mr

[trigger-happy]

Мне кажется, что "американская культура" позволяет себе очень многое
в рамках "Демократии", американцы делают что-хотят, как-хотят, перед -кем хотят".....(порой выходят за рамки общепринятых норм поведения, лично мне так кажется )

Не могли бы Вы привести примеры?

[Administrator]

Не могли бы Вы привести примеры?
gay marrieges,grajdanskiye braki,etc...

[trigger-happy]

Administrator,

I'm not sure whether Mubina meant the same kinds of things as you did (Mubina?) but what you described is part of the American culture and fits within their societal norms. So it's one thing if an American engages in such behavior within his or her society (i.e. the USA) and quite different if they do it, say in Saudi Arabia or in Vatican. The "majority rules" principle applies, so one's behavior can be judged differently depending on the surroundings.

I also think it's quite misleading to say there is no American culture as by definition, every nation has one. Although it's no secret their cultural norms are quite different from those of Uzbeks or other former Soviets and are viewed as wrong and morally reprehensible by some.

Also, no society is homogenous, especially one that is so multi-ethnic and multi-religious as the USA, so within the American culture there are many sub-cultures, many of which are very different from one another. For example, an East Coast WASP will behave in ways that are quite different than those of a second-generation American from, say, Burundi. Or Uzbekistan. :lol:

[Mubina]

Не могли бы Вы привести примеры?

Примеров сколько угодно,
Даже если взять САМЫЙ простой пример,
я была на приеме у Директора (американца) престижной Международной Организации, так захожу к нему он сидит и кушает....
за всю беседу он то ел, то пил, то ходил искал салфетки...
меня это раздражало ужасно, я простила его как иностранца, но не как интилегентного человека...
Под Американской Культурой я имела ввиду больше этику поведения.

salyam alaykum,
Mubina

[trigger-happy]

Не знаю, мне все больше вменяемые и вежливые американцы попадаются. Может, у меня радар какой-то работает? :lol:

[Mubina]

Не знаю, мне все больше вменяемые и вежливые американцы попадаются. Может, у меня радар какой-то работает? :lol:

Да, хотелось бы иметь такой радар, и действующий не только на американцев,
в принципе эта даже не трагедия, но мне хотелось узнать мнение остальных по поводу этого.
И мне кажется большинство юзеров согласны с тем, что Американцы "Здесь у нас" позволяют себе большего чем у себя на Родине, а так я их в принципе не осуждаю у каждой нации свои недостатки....но все мнения остальных тоже важно для меня...

Salyam Alaykum,
Mubina

[Amazone]

Maqtalgan Amriqodagi bir O'zbekning sarguzashtlari:

http://www.uzland.uz/bekorchi.htm

:lol:

[chicagoan]

Не могли бы Вы привести примеры?
Hey Youth of Uzbeks,

don't stare at those sky-scrapers of America...most of you have not traveled around those tower-like buildings...

Alas, movies do not relate you the smell ...otherwise none would watch hollywood movies...

Inside those tall buildings work Americans with a very low conscience - cheat at work, cheat at home, cheat at stores, and in the street... Furthermore, below those super-towers, deep undergound there is another world, bleached with odor of urine, cigarette-smoke, and ALLAH-knows-what.

Thousands of broke,homeless thieves, sex-predators, and destitute live there most of the time, transfering from train to train 24/7...

Supermen and women from 100-storied office buildings take underground trains ONLY because they hate TRAFFIC in downtown, they see the horror in streets, trains, stations, and make it seem they don't see all. But that odor...



this is an excerpt from my paper called "Below those sky-scrapers..."

mr

[Alouddin]

Amazone, long time no see. ishlaring yaxshimi? ;)

[tarafdor]

Salam,

Sovuq urush davrida dunyoni ezib kelgan 2 ta davlat bor edi, dinning dushmani, insonlari atesit qilgan Sovet davlati, va madaniyatning dushmani bu AQSh. Birinchi qulaganidan so'ng, ikkinchisi hali ham o'z ishini davom etirmoqda. Buni bilmagan holda yosh maktab bolalaridan boshlab kattalar o'z hayotlariga tatbiq etishmqda. AQSh bor joyda, fitna bor. Ular istagan davlatiga madaniyanti yani "regime change" olib kirish bahonasida usha halqni butkul hayotini izdan chiqaradi. Endi bu Iroq bu yaqin 50 yilda ham oz'iga kelolmasa kerak.

Ma assalama

[Body LOVE]

DA kakaya unih u amerikancev kultura ?

U Amerikancev net nikokoy kulturi v posuti!!!

Ayzik

[Mubina]

Salam,

Sovuq urush davrida dunyoni ezib kelgan 2 ta davlat bor edi, dinning dushmani, insonlari atesit qilgan Sovet davlati, va madaniyatning dushmani bu AQSh. Birinchi qulaganidan so'ng, ikkinchisi hali ham o'z ishini davom etirmoqda. Buni bilmagan holda yosh maktab bolalaridan boshlab kattalar o'z hayotlariga tatbiq etishmqda. AQSh bor joyda, fitna bor. Ular istagan davlatiga madaniyanti yani "regime change" olib kirish bahonasida usha halqni butkul hayotini izdan chiqaradi. Endi bu Iroq bu yaqin 50 yilda ham oz'iga kelolmasa kerak.

Ma assalama

Shu qatorda aytib o'tmaqchimanki, amerikaliklar nafaqat Orta Osiyo madaniyatini balkim dinini ham o'zgartirmoqchi bo'lishyapti...
Bunga shaxsan uzim guvoh bo'lganman, umuman olganda
orasimizda barcha hayotida biron marta bo'lsa ham christian missioner lar bilan uchrashgan deb o'ylayman...

Bir gazetadan o'kigandim, qay darajada to'gri yoqi noto'g'riligini bilmimanku lekin Uzbekistondan Soros Fondini chiqarilib yuborilishi aynan missionerlar muammosiga bog'lik ekan.

Salyam Alaykum,
Mubina

[tarafdor]

Shu qatorda aytib o'tmaqchimanki, amerikaliklar nafaqat Orta Osiyo madaniyatini balkim dinini ham o'zgartirmoqchi bo'lishyapti...
Bunga shaxsan uzim guvoh bo'lganman, umuman olganda
orasimizda barcha hayotida biron marta bo'lsa ham christian missioner lar bilan uchrashgan deb o'ylayman...

Bir gazetadan o'kigandim, qay darajada to'gri yoqi noto'g'riligini bilmimanku lekin Uzbekistondan Soros Fondini chiqarilib yuborilishi aynan missionerlar muammosiga bog'lik ekan.

Salyam Alaykum,
Mubina
Salam,

Madaniyat bu albatta usha madaniyatni tez qabul qilish uchun biror bir yo'l qidiriladi, va bu yo'l shubhasiz dindir. Bu misonerlar hozir bizda tiqilib ketgan. Eng asosiy davlatlarda yashaydigan misionerlarning davlatlarida bo'lib qaytdim, eh deb inson afsus chekadi, naqadar "madaniyat uzoq" bo'lgan insonlar bizga madaniyatni o'rgatishadi.
Lanat bo Amriqo, Lanat bo Isroil

Ma assalama

[Mirzabek]

T:H sizga o'zi ashnakalari tushadi de...

a tak kecha AMerikashkalar bilan tanishdim turist bo'Lib Istanbulga kelishgan ekan, inet kafeda otirib tanishdik, gap orasida ularga aytdim senlarni kulturan va traditisiyan yok tog'rimi desam? Tog'ri deb javob beridlar...
tak sho jivoy primer...

Ikkalasi ham: Kaliforniyadan lekin Washington ,da o'qishadi Mechanical Engineering
bittasi Masterni butirdi bittasi enid boshladi...

[bonu]

Примеров сколько угодно,
Даже если взять САМЫЙ простой пример,
я была на приеме у Директора (американца) престижной Международной Организации, так захожу к нему он сидит и кушает....
за всю беседу он то ел, то пил, то ходил искал салфетки...
меня это раздражало ужасно, я простила его как иностранца, но не как интилегентного человека...
Под Американской Культурой я имела ввиду больше этику поведения.

salyam alaykum,
Mubina
A razve u direktorov bivaet vremya na obed?

[bonu]

Hey Youth of Uzbeks,

don't stare at those sky-scrapers of America...most of you have not traveled around those tower-like buildings...

Alas, movies do not relate you the smell ...otherwise none would watch hollywood movies...

Inside those tall buildings work Americans with a very low conscience - cheat at work, cheat at home, cheat at stores, and in the street... Furthermore, below those super-towers, deep undergound there is another world, bleached with odor of urine, cigarette-smoke, and ALLAH-knows-what.

Thousands of broke,homeless thieves, sex-predators, and destitute live there most of the time, transfering from train to train 24/7...

Supermen and women from 100-storied office buildings take underground trains ONLY because they hate TRAFFIC in downtown, they see the horror in streets, trains, stations, and make it seem they don't see all. But that odor...



this is an excerpt from my paper called "Below those sky-scrapers..."

mr
You must use lots of deodorants and air-fresheners?

[Webbie]

Примеров сколько угодно,
Даже если взять САМЫЙ простой пример,
я была на приеме у Директора (американца) престижной Международной Организации, так захожу к нему он сидит и кушает....
за всю беседу он то ел, то пил, то ходил искал салфетки...
меня это раздражало ужасно, я простила его как иностранца, но не как интилегентного человека...
Под Американской Культурой я имела ввиду больше этику поведения.

salyam alaykum,
Mubina

Nu eto protivno :)

Hotya znaete, about manners. Ochen mnogoe izmenilos': kogda ya priezjala v USA goda 3 nazad, vse bilo po drugomu, cashiers were extremely polite and people were smiling. Seychas, vse kak-to po drugomu. Well, I was about to buy somethin at the grossery store and I asked the lady where the juices were. She gave me the worst look ever and said: "I dont know"-with a really mean attitude. She was supposted to help because she worked there and it was her job to do it. But oh well...

Sincerely, WEBGirl

[tarafdor]

Salam,

Kogda mi govorim ob Amerike, nado govorit o France, England, Ireland, potomu chto ludi etih stran postroili Ameriku. Yesli prezidentom US mojet stat tolko beliy i proestant( katolik Kenedi isklucheniye), znachit kultura Ameriki related to this nation. Ostalnih natsiy tolko i propuskayut dlya chernih rabot, i oni imeyut zero ifekt dlya Ameriki. Yesli Amerika upravlayetsa masonami i yevreyami, a unih netu ni kulturi ni maneri chtobi podrajat im, a tolko razvrat. Prochtite Tavrat, i vi oznakomitis pochemu yevreyi vezde i vse razrushayut.

Ma assalama.

[Mubina]

Выяснилось, что никого не привлекает Американская культура, чем же привлекательна Америка? что каждый второй азиат мечтает там жить.

My respects to all.

Salyam Alaykum.

[Vostochnaya...]

Выяснилось, что никого не привлекает Американская культура, чем же привлекательна Америка? что каждый второй азиат мечтает там жить.

My respects to all.

Salyam Alaykum.
Привет! У каждого свои причины жить там, для некоторых, возможно, как раз-таки привлекательно само "отсутствие культуры". Имею ввиду то, что кому-то нравится, когда в твою жизнь никто не лезет, и ты занят только собой. С другой стороны, наши там ненадолго задерживаются, поучатся, поработают и назад. Сами говорят, что там делать нечего, каждый зациклен только на себе. Для азиатов это сложно. Но, все-таки, по большому счету, азиаты стремятся попасть туда для того, чтобы выучиться. Как ни крути, их образование высоко ценится. Вот например, ты имеешь больше шансов попасть на престижную и высокооплачиваемую работу, если у тебя western degree. Люди, заботятся о будущем, вот и стремятся туда.

[Mirzabek]

Naprimer ya ne staryus' poyehat' v USA mne hvatilo jit' za granitsoy...
samoye glavnoye nachat' rabotu i glavnoye idei v svoyey strane...
vot tam ti mojesh sebya razvit' raznestoronne...

popast' na visoko oplachivayumuyu rabotu eto ne tak uj legko...tak kak foreign chelovek nikogda ne mojet zarabitavat' mnogo osobenno v EU countries.
na schyot ameriki eto musor...

omadla

[chicagoan]

Выяснилось, что никого не привлекает Американская культура, чем же привлекательна Америка? что каждый второй азиат мечтает там жить.

My respects to all.

Salyam Alaykum.
assalamu alaykum,

good question. I am an economist, and from economic history I learnt that the USA (and other Westerners as well) robbed the world so much that EVERY single person who is capable, HAS THE RIGHT to come, study, work, and take back home his share out of this country...I repeat, every single person! Around the world.

Whoever is interested in details, I may explain.

wassalam,

mr

[Webbie]

Выяснилось, что никого не привлекает Американская культура, чем же привлекательна Америка? что каждый второй азиат мечтает там жить.

My respects to all.

Salyam Alaykum.


Zarabotat' mojno :rolleyes:

[trigger-happy]

Whoever is interested in details, I may explain.

Try explaining to the INS. :D

[trigger-happy]

Выяснилось, что никого не привлекает Американская культура, чем же привлекательна Америка.
Зачем так категорично? Для меня, например, американский образ жизни очень привлекателен - индивидуализм, законопослушность, здоровый эгоизм, этого всего восточным обществам очень не хватает. Для меня привлекательна культура, в которой среднему человеку не приходит в голову давать взятки, воровать с работы, сплетничать о соседях. Поэтому мне здесь и нравится жить - потому что в Узбекистане мои особо культурные родственники-соседи-знакомые-милиционеры-продавцы-учителя за*****ли.

[Webbie]

. Поэтому мне здесь и нравится жить - потому что в Узбекистане мои особо культурные родственники-соседи-знакомые-милиционеры-продавцы-учителя за*****ли.

:rolleyes: :D

[chicagoan]

Try explaining to the INS. :D
assalamu alaykum,

I do not know who is INS.
anyways, let me START explaining. And I'll try to make it as plain as possible.

But I will now limit myself to Uzbekistan/Turkestan.

So, our land has been a very rich - in every way, spiritual and material.

Russians attacked Turkestan over 200 times until they got hold of it at the end of 19th century. English threatened us from the South. Russians stole books/gold/etc. and transported it to their country with many cargo trains.
By the way, Bukhara Khanate, before invasion, possessed THE LARGEST GOLD Reserves in the WORLD! Russians took all the gold, and British also got some share of it.

Now, during WW1 and WW 2, the USA sold weapons and other goods to both sides, and as means of payment accepted ONLY gold. According some estimates, they HOARDED 2/3 of the world's gold! Russia, among other countries, then USSR, brought its gold to the USA to buy food and tanks...and etc. Turkestan's Russian-robbed gold got here that way....and most of it never left this country...

Shortly after WW2, in 1970s USA got worried about its depleting gold reserves, and stopped payments in gold....

After that worse happened - without GOLD Standard which supported the world economy from the beginning of time, the USA, the superpower, started printing $dollar as much as it wanted -and has ben buying everything real - manpower, smart brains, goods of all kind...

so, first of all, most of the gold was HOARDED in USA.

second, with paper $ the USA is hoarding more of the world's wealth.

Thirdly, since the establishment, the USA has been actively involved in all kinds of wars worldwide - and further robbed the sovereign nations ....Korea, Columbia, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Phillipines, Cambodia, Hawaii, Spain, France, you name it.

think. Now do u c why we ALL have the right to COME and take our share from this country? It is by ALLAH's wisdom, that a lot of us studying and working in the USA...

to be continued inshaallah.

wassalam,

mr

[trigger-happy]

I do not know who is INS.
Immigration and Naturalization Service - basically, the people who decide who gets an American visa and who doesn't. I believe that it is now called differently - something like Immigration and Citizenship Department or such.
Now do u c why we ALL have the right to COME and take our share from this country?
I see, but I'm afraid the U.S. government doesn't. And they are the ones deciding whom to let come to their country.

[chicagoan]

Immigration and Naturalization Service - basically, the people who decide who gets an American visa and who doesn't. I believe that it is now called differently - something like Immigration and Citizenship Department or such.

I see, but I'm afraid the U.S. government doesn't. And they are the ones deciding whom to let come to their country.
masallah,

you have a point. Yes, they are (yani INS) one of the means, asbab, but ULTIMATELY Allah is the one who moves our lives.

I recently met a guy who came from UZBEKISTAN a week ago, and he overcame THE IMPOSSIBLE.

Agent 007, Mr. James Bond, would be ashamed after hearing this guy's story of coming to the USA.

wassalam,

mr

[SmIlIk]

Assalyam Alaykum,
У меня вопрос ко всем,
многие из вас были в Америке, многие там находятся,
лично я не была там,
но всё же....
Мне кажется, что "американская культура" позволяет себе очень многое
в рамках "Демократии", американцы делают что-хотят, как-хотят, перед -кем хотят".....(порой выходят за рамки общепринятых норм поведения, лично мне так кажется )
Я лично это понимаю как некультурие, и неуважение к окружающим
Может быть я ошибаюсь... Но позвольте заметить "культура" позволяет
не так уж и многое, как этого себе позволяет "Американская",
Конечно, я могу простить им их выходки как "иностранцам", но не как "культурным людям"
Как на это смотрите Вы?

Спасибо заранее,
Мубина

Mubina, dlya mnogih amerikancev drugoy narod prosto ne sushestvuet. Otsyuda idet chto oni dazhe i ne znayut kak kto odevaetsa ilizhe kakie u drugih naciy kul'turi i cennosti. No kul'tura u nih est', kakaya bi ona ne bila isporchennoy.

Vi bi prinesli primer, gde oni perehodili vse ramki kul'turi, nam bi bilo bi legche reshit' ;)

[SmIlIk]

Примеров сколько угодно,
Даже если взять САМЫЙ простой пример,
я была на приеме у Директора (американца) престижной Международной Организации, так захожу к нему он сидит и кушает....
за всю беседу он то ел, то пил, то ходил искал салфетки...
меня это раздражало ужасно, я простила его как иностранца, но не как интилегентного человека...
Под Американской Культурой я имела ввиду больше этику поведения.

salyam alaykum,
Mubina

Sorry, vizhu vi yzhe providoli primerov. Vot vam kontur argument.

A mozhet vi k nemu zashli v periude ego lunch breaka? Mnogie amerikanci ne pozvolyayut sebe dlinnie pre dlinnie lunch breaks...mozhet he was nice to not to turn you down saying "I am on my lunch break, let her come on 2 hours" or maybe he felt close to his fellow visitor (you)?

[SmIlIk]

Hey Youth of Uzbeks,

don't stare at those sky-scrapers of America...most of you have not traveled around those tower-like buildings...

Alas, movies do not relate you the smell ...otherwise none would watch hollywood movies...

Inside those tall buildings work Americans with a very low conscience - cheat at work, cheat at home, cheat at stores, and in the street... Furthermore, below those super-towers, deep undergound there is another world, bleached with odor of urine, cigarette-smoke, and ALLAH-knows-what.

Thousands of broke,homeless thieves, sex-predators, and destitute live there most of the time, transfering from train to train 24/7...

Supermen and women from 100-storied office buildings take underground trains ONLY because they hate TRAFFIC in downtown, they see the horror in streets, trains, stations, and make it seem they don't see all. But that odor...



this is an excerpt from my paper called "Below those sky-scrapers..."

mr
Well, then, let's not be copy cats and do the same things, too. For that you don't judge americans, we should blame ourselves. We should learn to do things of our best interest. We should learn to curb our passion.

IF American culture is bad, why don't we counter learn from it? why should we follow it? Don't you think blaming somebody else for your problems is childish and unreasonable?

[Marvin_Kaff]

Asalamu aleikum,
Nu vo pervih soglasen, s tem chto amerika "obvorovivaet" ves' mir, i chto kajdiy imeet pravo na mesto jitelsta zdes', dalee, zemlya eta prinadlejit "native americans" i ne odin beliy amerikanec ne imeet pravo uprekat' kogo libo v tom chto on jivet v etoy srtane, i tem bolee vigonyat' otsyuda. a to chto amerikanci sdeali s "native americans" izvestno vsem, tol'ko mi ochen' redko vspominaem etot genozid... Dalee, oni obvorovivayut nas, a mi svoyo dobro vozvrashaem sebe...
Na shet kulturi vernee amerikanskogo bezkulturiya...nu chto podelaesh bolshinstvo iz nih eto prosto bidlo...maneri u bolshinstva otsutstvuyut, ochen' bolshoe chislo idiotov, no oni etih idiotov k vlasti ne podpuskayut, ya imeyu v vidu, kakim bi idiotom(chitayte bush) tot ili inoy idiot ne bil, on vse je dumaet o svoey strane...
Vot mesyaca 3 nazad slushal radio, i tam odna devica(srednego vozrosta) pobivala vo vseh respublikah sredney azii, tak vot tam ona prepodovala v nashih VUZah, koroche govorya ona mnogo chego rasskazala o nashih rebyatah, kak oni hotyat bit' pohojimi na amerikosov, i kak ploho eto u nih poluchaetsya...men stalo stidno za nashi respubliki...
Poluchilos' tipo, kogda iz kakogonibud' kishlaka(ne imeyu nichego protiv lyudey kotorie jivut v kishlakah) priezjaet kto libo, i nachinaet iz sebya stroit' gorodskih, nu naprimer, videl kak odnajdi kishlachnie devushka i paren' celovalis' v obshestvennom meste, po krayne mere v to vremya mi gorodskie etogo sebe ne pozvolyali...a zdes' vot iz za svoego jelanie bit' pohojimi na gorodskih kishlachnie stali celovatsya...bilo smeshno ochen' i ne priyatno...luchshe bi oni kak v svoem chapane priehali tak v nem bi i ostalis', ya b togda ih bolshe uvajal...nu koroche laja poluchetsya kogda kto to kogo to pitaetsya kopirovat'. Tak vot dlya etoy jenshini "Mi" toje takie je "kishlachnie" kotorie iz za svoego jelaniya bit' pohojimi na nih dohodim do absurda. Ya predstavil chto pri etom konechno je nashi lyudi okazali ey horoshiy priem...tak ne priyatno stalo. No kogo vinit'? Tolko sebya...PO krayne mere esli esho kogda nibud' okajus' v uzb. ya yanki okaju dostoyniy priem...chtob potom po radio uj slishkom veselo ne bilo. :evil: oni nas za polu lyudey shitayut ulibayas' nam v lico, a mi im takie radujnie priemi okazivaem..
No budu nadeyatsya chto est' isklyucheniya...
Nado ostavatsya temi kto mi est'...
Nash Prorok (SAW) skazal i preduprejdal nas
" You will surely follow the ways of those who came before you, in exactly the same fashion, to the point that were they to enter teh hole of lizard , you too would enter it. It was asked of him,"o Messenger of Allah! Do you mean the jews and chrisitans ? He said "WHO ELSE?"
I na posledok. Priglashayu vseh Musulman v ameriku, truditsya na blago Islama. Mi imeem polnoe pravo zdes' jit', zarabativat' i pomogat' drugim musulmanam.
wassalam

[bruno]

Dear Mubina,
I do agree with TH very much that what we define as so called "culture" is a pool of norms of a certain society - uzbek, russian, indian etc.
The problem is that we consider anything which deviates from our norms to be either "lack of culture" or "wrong".
Your example is an example in itself. In American society (capitalistic and market oriented), every single minute is precious. And there is also much emphasize on efficiency. therefore, it is part of norm that u try to save ur time by combination of different activities, such as eating and meeting, lectures, reading etc. The thing that it is not practiced in Uzb. or some other place doesn't make of it "lack of culture". Similar example could be how russian speaking population find locals "lacking culture" simply because we do have different norms and values (like the way we communicate, gossip:) ).
As to why people go there, well, I guess different people go for different reasons. it's opportunities (education, better pay, friendly immigration system etc.), freedom (for better or for worse), rule of law, security etc.
I am not saying that American society is perfect. Of course there are lots of people practicing codes of conduct which wouldn't fit into even American norms. But, don't we have those kind of people. Don't any other nations have them.
Примеров сколько угодно,
Даже если взять САМЫЙ простой пример,
я была на приеме у Директора (американца) престижной Международной Организации, так захожу к нему он сидит и кушает....
за всю беседу он то ел, то пил, то ходил искал салфетки...
меня это раздражало ужасно, я простила его как иностранца, но не как интилегентного человека...
Под Американской Культурой я имела ввиду больше этику поведения.

salyam alaykum,
Mubina

[TIGANA]

Privet Vsem...
Chto kasaetsya nashey teme, to ya predlojil-bi Vam dat opredelenie slovu "Kultura". Na arabskom i na uzbezkom "Madaniyat" pridaet ponyatie kak "Gorodskoy". Eto znachit, chto slovo kultura ishodit ili osnovivaetsya iz/na raznih/raznie obrazov jizney. A chto psihologiya govorit: eto normalnoe i estestvennoe yavlenie, esli lyudi predpochitayut svoyu kulturu, mojno kotoriy zametit v zarubejom. Obyasnyaetsya s etapami akklimitizazii (flustratiziya,......).
"Kultura" privlikatelnoe ponyatie, nu skajitika estli ili ostalsyali v etom mire "Chistoy kulturi" ili "Chistoy krovi"?
A chto kasaetsya "Amerikanskoy kulturi" to eto toje odin vid kultur, kotoraya rodilas nedavno, i resultat visokoy urovni peremeshki drugih i raznih tipov kultur.
A Politika bila vsegda politikoy, kotoruyu osushestvlyali i dostigali svoi zeli s pomoshyu sporov, voyni, bogadstva, sorevnovanii, nauki i religii. Ranee perechislennie faktori po obshemu schetu slujili chelovecheskomu progressu. A chem zakonchitsya progress? NICHEM!!! ;)

S uvojeniem
TIGANA :cool: