what do you think? ..

[Mrs. Pachino]

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:59:27 +0300 (MSK)
From: Javid Huseynov
To: Azerbaijan News Distribution List
Subject: Moscow Times: Tashkent Trails Behind Baku in Cab Chit-Chat

Tuesday, Nov. 6, 2001. Page 11
Tashkent Trails Behind Baku in Cab Chit-Chat
By Chloe Arnold

TASHKENT, Uzbekistan -- Sitting in the dilapidated
canteen at the top of Tashkent's television tower with our slices of horsemeat salami in front of me, I wondered what it was my Uzbek taxi driver had hated so much about the Caucasus.

"The Georgians weren't SO bad," he told me -- he'd served in the Soviet army near Stalin's birthplace at Gori. "But the Azeris were the rudest people I've ever met. No time for anyone except when they're trying to rip you off."

I suppose some Azeris know a thing or two about making money. With all the zeros at the end of their currency (there are currently 4,700 manats to the dollar) it's easy for them to shortchange you.

But some of their moneymaking schemes are just plain daft. There's a porter at Baku airport who won't push your bags to the parking lot unless you give him $100. He did once persuade a Japanese tourist to give him the full $100. But that was three years ago, and he hasn't had another customer since.

"But the Azeris are your fellow Muslim brothers," I
said to my Uzbek driver. "Doesn't that mean you have a lot in common?"

Apparently not. "They're a different kind of Muslim
altogether," he told me cryptically.

Apart from their religion, and the great gray hulks of housing blocks on the outskirts of their cities, the Azeris and the Uzbeks don't seem to have much in common. Where the Azeris are chatty and inquisitive and never afraid to overcharge you, the Uzbeks are quiet and don't ask questions. And when I paid my grumpy taxi driver for his tour of Tashkent, he gave me a handful of notes back saying I'd given him too much.

Perhaps it's because Uzbeks are afraid to talk to Westerners. Human rights don't come very high up on.

President Islam Karimov's list of priorities, and
people have been put into prison for being the wrong kind of Muslim or having a brother who went to the wrong kind of mosque.

Human rights groups here have calculated that there are almost 8,000 prisoners of conscience in
Uzbekistan. Azerbaijan's President Heidar Aliyev is no saint, but in comparison to President Karimov, he is like the tooth fairy, Father Christmas and the Wizard of Oz all rolled into one.

At Tashkent's television tower I forced down my last piece of horsemeat salami and turned away from the gray muddle of streets spread out 16 floors below me.

Admittedly, I'm not seeing the Uzbek capital at its
best right now: People are jittery because of the war in neighboring Afghanistan, and last week's torrential rains have turned the place into an unsightly bog.

But give me Baku and its crafty taxi drivers any day. At least they make you laugh.


Chloe Arnold is a freelance journalist based in Baku, Azerbaijan.

Copyright 2001 The Moscow Times

[Duma]

So what if he does not like Azeris? He does not speak for a whole nation.
As for me, i have never been in close contact with Azeris. But i am sure i will like you. ;D
I will tell ya, who i don't like. Freelance journalists!
If you meet her, tell her to put herself in Karimov's place, and think what it would be like for a president of a small and extremely vulnerable nation to face the threat of religious extremism and to share borders with terrorism to the south.

Cheers ;)

[krokobazuka]

"And when I paid my grumpy taxi driver for his tour of Tashkent, he gave me a handful of notes back saying I'd given him too much.

Perhaps it's because Uzbeks are afraid to talk to Westerners. Human rights don't come very high up on."

- What a bullshit!

PS Pacino kak dela?

[Freestyler@]

I think the author just made wrong generalisations.

I don't think that our taxi drivers are so honest as the one the author met. I'm sure most of them are as "crafty" as their azeri collegues...

Last week there was a show on UK televsion. Three teams of two were sent to Azerbaijan mountains to make their way home (to UK) as quickly as possible. They were only given $200.
The azeri highlanders were such hypocrits, that I felt ashamed of them, although I'm not one... Everyone who saw the brits started to think about the ways of extoritng money from them. On a bazaar, a group of people tried to help one of the girls and gave her a mobile. She was so happy and thankful to him. But when she finished talking, he, in front of everyone watching, demanded that she pay him for the "service". LAME, isn't it, gde ji kavkazskiye djigiti!
Another two were invited by a young man to his house for a dinner. The naive scotts thought it was azeri hospitality. They ate chicken and lamb (shashlik), the host even put a pornographic video to entertain his quests! :D If you could just see the embarassment on the face of the scotts. And after all that, the father came in, a typical azeri highlender with long moustache and a "goga" cape on his head, and started to demand the money for every bit of the "service". Now try to imagine the faces of the scotts, who were first embarassed and then shocked - chto-to pohojeye na nemuyu scenu iz gogolevskogo "Revizora".
Ya je v svoyu ochered' ne znal plakat' mne ili smeyat'sya...

Ya, imeya bol'shoy opit puteshestviya po Uzbekistanu, znayu chto u nas tochno takiye je ludi. I hotya vsyo eto mojno obyasnit' nashey total'noy nishetoy, mne vsyo je do boli obidno za moy narod, i voobshe za vse narodi bivshego SSSR kotoriye seychas v takom polojenii. Vsyo bol'she i bol'she ubejdayus', chto bednota privodit k moral'nomu upadku, i zdes' uje ni Islam, ni uj temboleye nravstvenniy idealizm kommunizma ne pomogut.

[tokiec]

bu sizlarga trali vali emas!
o'zimizga achinishimiz kerak! qo'limizdan kelganini ayamasligimiz kerak, shunda hech biz qo'g'rimizda yomon gap gapirib ko'rsinchi! o'zim uni ......

[FIX]

Yoq, tokiec aka, bizani toghrimizda yomon gap gapirib boladimi...? Faqat mahtash kerak... Aniqroghi, maqtashni davom ettiraverish kerak, shunda farovonligimiz qanchalik "o'sib" kelayotgan bo'lsa, huddi shunday "o'saveradi"!

[Mrs. Pachino]

Krokie, what exactly do you find to be a "bullshit" in that quote?

Oh, and, by the way, I am doing just groovy :p



KrokoBAZUKA (Nov 06, 2001 06:01):
"And when I paid my grumpy taxi driver for his tour of Tashkent, he gave me a handful of notes back saying I'd given him too much.

Perhaps it's because Uzbeks are afraid to talk to Westerners. Human rights don't come very high up on."

- What a bullshit!

PS Pacino kak dela?

[Mrs. Pachino]

Freestyler, you yourself said (and i quote):

"i am sure most of them (Uzbek taxi drivers) are as "crafty" as theri Azeri collegues"

So, that is why the same thing goes for those Azeri people portrayed on that show you watched. I can't talk for the whole Azeri nation, but let me tell you one thing! The first thing that I've always heard about people in Azerbaijan from foreign visitors was about amazing, truly amazing Azeri hospitality and kindness. Trust me, hospitality is the first thing that will strike you if you ever visit Azerbaijan, I personally guarantee you that!!

Chto kasayetsya kavkazskix djigitov - to oni vsegda bili, u budut. Kavkaz vsegda ostanetsya Kavkazom v plane svoego gostepriimstva i svoyix djigitov. And no show and no false representation can ruin that!!

And, as they say, every nation has its own good and bad people. And, trust me, the Azeri people that you saw on that show of yours make up a minority in my country.

Da, bednost' privodit k moral'nomu upadku, no chem bedneye chelovek, tem bogache u nego serdce, i dobreye dusha. Bogatstvo privodit k naglosti, visokomeriyu, osobenno kogda eto bivayet "iz gryazi v knyazi". To yest', kogda ludi bivayut bedni, a posle vdrug stanovyatsya bogatimi, oni nachinayut naglet', i stavit' sebya vishe drugix. I naooborot, ludi virosshiye v dostatke, ne bivayut nastol'ko alchnimi, potomu chto oni privikli zhit' v dostatke.

Tak chto, pover'te mne, imenno bogatstvo i sluzhit ochen' chasto prichinoy moral'nogo upadka cheloveka, kogda den'gi stanovyatsya smislom zhizni, i moral' uzhe nichego ne znachit.



Freestyler@ (Nov 06, 2001 06:17):
I think the author just made wrong generalisations.

I don't think that our taxi drivers are so honest as the one the author met. I'm sure most of them are as "crafty" as their azeri collegues...

Last week there was a show on UK televsion. Three teams of two were sent to Azerbaijan mountains to make their way home (to UK) as quickly as possible. They were only given $200.
The azeri highlanders were such hypocrits, that I felt ashamed of them, although I'm not one... Everyone who saw the brits started to think about the ways of extoritng money from them. On a bazaar, a group of people tried to help one of the girls and gave her a mobile. She was so happy and thankful to him. But when she finished talking, he, in front of everyone watching, demanded that she pay him for the "service". LAME, isn't it, gde ji kavkazskiye djigiti!
Another two were invited by a young man to his house for a dinner. The naive scotts thought it was azeri hospitality. They ate chicken and lamb (shashlik), the host even put a pornographic video to entertain his quests! :D If you could just see the embarassment on the face of the scotts. And after all that, the father came in, a typical azeri highlender with long moustache and a "goga" cape on his head, and started to demand the money for every bit of the "service". Now try to imagine the faces of the scotts, who were first embarassed and then shocked - chto-to pohojeye na nemuyu scenu iz gogolevskogo "Revizora".
Ya je v svoyu ochered' ne znal plakat' mne ili smeyat'sya...

Ya, imeya bol'shoy opit puteshestviya po Uzbekistanu, znayu chto u nas tochno takiye je ludi. I hotya vsyo eto mojno obyasnit' nashey total'noy nishetoy, mne vsyo je do boli obidno za moy narod, i voobshe za vse narodi bivshego SSSR kotoriye seychas v takom polojenii. Vsyo bol'she i bol'she ubejdayus', chto bednota privodit k moral'nomu upadku, i zdes' uje ni Islam, ni uj temboleye nravstvenniy idealizm kommunizma ne pomogut.

[Freestyler@]

<Mrs. Pachino>, I can understand your defensive position when it comes to somebody alien like me criticising the azeris (AFAIK, you're an azeri as well).

However, for the sake of the fairness:
Ask the tourists who've travelled to Central Asia and all of them will tell you the same thing about the hospitality and frienldiness which they encountered there. It's an old stereotype about Asian people, as well as about those living in Caucasus. However, due to the extreme poverty of these nations, the sincere hospitality is alarmingly more and more being replaced by a hypocritical one, when under the mask of hospitality hidden is the wish to extort money from tourists. That's what I know is happening in Uzbekistan, and I'm sure the same is happening in Azerbaijan. That show only proved my apprehensions. Having said that I of course don't mean that both CA people and azeris have totally lost their dignity, I'm sure there are still lots of people who cherish and pursue that nice tradition of sincerety and hospitality towards foreigners that we've all witnessed before the demise of the USSR, and I'm sure even well before that.

As to the poverty: I disagree that poverty doesn't result in greed and in lost of dignity as its consiquence. Your sentiments about the poor and rich are obviously based on the teachings we all had during communists...
And again, having said that I don't mean that all poor are bad, and all rich are good. I agree that too much wealth has the same dehumanising affect on some people. So, in essence, what causes all that is greed: some people become greedy when they get poorer, the others - when they get richer...

[cute]

The bullshit is that the driver gave some notes back has nothing to do with human rights. If taxi driver was dishonest he would not even think about it, and ask you more.
However, Mrs Pachino we are also proud of our hospitality, and many people quote it on their travel reports. We also, have "soviet service quality" which smashes and destroys all the feeling of tourists about nation being hospitable. You all know taxi drivers near the exit of Tashkent airport, they'll kill each other to get some tourist in their taxi. After they get tourist they'll charge him from 5 to 100 $, but most of the business comes from valyutchiks, they exchange soums with the tourist in taxi and make money out of it.

A funny story: This summer one umidie from UK, got a taxi from the airport, and when asked about price driver replied "50 dollar bo'ladi ukam"
Umidie said " Oka Oyga obchiqib qo'ymisizmi mobodo?"

[OPTIMIST']

very silly connection between a taxi driver and human rights issue :)

i agree with Freestyler, under such poor living standards some people are desperate to extort money from any possible foreigner/tourist, some taxi drivers have gone too far in that sense.

i belive that there should be a limit to any hospitality, in our case, for sure.

~ me

[KRO]

"Perhaps it's because Uzbeks are afraid to talk to Westerners. "

THat was pathetic

[cute]

There will be inevitable limits on hospitality as tourism grows. Especially when it gets commercialised.
I just wonder what would happen to uzbek hospitality when tourist numbers increase.

[Mimohryushkapups]

nachali s horsemeat salami, proyehalis' pro to kak uzbeki nenavidyat azeri, po human rights, i naskolko v baku upoitelno po vecheram, hrust azerbayjanskoy bulki i showmeni taxisti... :) hehe

-poruchik, rasskajite pro ptits, pojaluysta.
-nu chto j... mojno i o ptitsah. begemot gordaya ptitsa poka ne pinesh ne poletit.

[Daddy]

Ena privet.....skol'ko let....
sluchayno zashol-tvoyo imya uvidel-kak dela? groovy govorish'? :)

pishi i take care..


ps. a naschot topica-ne obrashay vnimaniya...esli ty mne verish'-skol'ko ya ezdil-nikogda mne takoy taksist ne popadalsya...vooo

nacional'nost' ne imeet \znacheniya.........glavnoe chtob chelovek byl horoshiy!

[April]

Even Daddy is here :-)
Ena, some people are nice, some people are just close-minded and some are not nice, regardless of their nationality

April

[Mrs. Pachino]

Daddy, privet! U menya vsyo horosho, i v samom dele skol'ko zim .. :)

ti tozhe ne propaday :) nadeyus' chto u tebya vsyo v poryadke!! :p


Daddy (Nov 10, 2001 08:13):
Ena privet.....skol'ko let....
sluchayno zashol-tvoyo imya uvidel-kak dela? groovy govorish'? :)

pishi i take care..


ps. a naschot topica-ne obrashay vnimaniya...esli ty mne verish'-skol'ko ya ezdil-nikogda mne takoy taksist ne popadalsya...vooo

nacional'nost' ne imeet \znacheniya.........glavnoe chtob chelovek byl horoshiy!

[Mrs. Pachino]

April, docha, nice to see you here :)

i know that some people are just not nice, they just can't help it. unfortunately, their ignorance can really hurt other people who can be very sensitive to comments like that.

beregi sebya :)


April (Nov 10, 2001 14:46):
Even Daddy is here :-)
Ena, some people are nice, some people are just close-minded and some are not nice, regardless of their nationality

April