Forgotten Beings in Uzbekistan

[Bukhara]

Dear readers,

Don't you think that the problem of Tajiks in Uzbekistan has been ignored by the rulers in a very ungrateful and dishonourable way? While they have done a lot for this country and have shaped the culture and the genetics of Uzbek people distinguishing them from other Turkic tribes, have learnt their poets how to write poems in Uzbek, have re-created the Uzbek literature in Soviet time by Hamza Hakimzade of Rasht (Karategin) and Sadriddin Ayni of Bukhara, have established the Uzbek fim industry by Kamil Yarmatov of Asht, have given the most glorious cities of Bukhara and Samarqand to them...

So, why should they suffer under the fascistic chauvinism and oppression of the dump rulers who do not know their own past or don't want to admit it? Why do they have to disguise themselves as Uzbek? Why do they have to hide their real identity? Why do they have to study in a foreign language, instead of their own Persian?

How can you be indifferent to that sort of nomardlik?

Tajiks and Uzbeks are very close in racial terms as the result of the assimilation of a Turkic tribe with indigenous Central Asian Iranians. Therefore, we have to tolerate each other as Tajiks do with Uzbeks in Tajikistan. Tajikistani Uzbeks study in Uzbek, speak in Uzbek and are registered as Uzbek. Why should Tajiks be treated as outcast in their own native land - Uzbekistan? Why to give a bad lesson to Tajiks in Tajikistan?

Let me know your opinions, please.

[noodles]

Personally, I have nothing against Tadjiks. I have a lot of real Tadjik friends. Actually, I don't care about the race/nationality but still the matter concerns Tadjiks I wanna say that they're also normal people as well as others, let's say Uzbeks. In Uzbekistan live a lot of representatives of Tadjik nationatliy and they're living friendly with others and in any social, political, cultural relations I don't see anything wrong. And also, I don't see any political pressure against Tadjiks or any other nationality. So what's point of arguing about "Uzbek-Tadjik Relations" ? There's no problem with this so why to try to make out something that doesn't exist in order to bring misunderstandings or conflicts between these nations?

[nbyall12]

our leader is tajik but he hides it??

[ganjubas]

The author probably never lived in Uzbekistan. Whatever you wrote, Bukhara, is exagerated. Whatever happened to us in Uzbekistan is our own fault. They(Soviets) were registering us as uzbeks and we were silent. They divided Central Asia and gave cities where majority spoke farsiy to turkish speaking Uzbekistan, we were silent. In cities where majority were tajiks, most of schools were uzbek schools, and we were going there in silence. We were outcasts with no national self-conciousness. We lost with such a shame and it is impossible to go back. We have to learn how live in peace but require our rights: recognition of distinctness of our culture/language. We have to demand conditions when our language and literature could be taught to our kids. But, what I see, we continue doing whatever we are told or forced to do. We have to take lessons from our history of last one thousand and one hundred years of being under someone's rule. There are officially about one million tajiks. Do we have any strong communities? No.

Make your conclusions before provoking others. You are a tajik from Tajikistan, who doesn't understand the problem. Nowadays, liberation wars are not popular. When countries are uniting, you are promoting partition. It is easy to say from your mountains "those lands belong to us". They don't. And, by your topic you are in no way helping tajiks in the country.

[Administrator]

The author probably never lived in Uzbekistan. Whatever you wrote, Bukhara, is exagerated. Whatever happened to us in Uzbekistan is our own fault. They(Soviets) were registering us as uzbeks and we were silent. They divided Central Asia and gave cities where majority spoke farsiy to turkish speaking Uzbekistan, we were silent. In cities where majority were tajiks, most of schools were uzbek schools, and we were going there in silence. We were outcasts with no national self-conciousness. We lost with such a shame and it is impossible to go back. We have to learn how live in peace but require our rights: recognition of distinctness of our culture/language. We have to demand conditions when our language and literature could be taught to our kids. But, what I see, we continue doing whatever we are told or forced to do. We have to take lessons from our history of last one thousand and one hundred years of being under someone's rule. There are officially about one million tajiks. Do we have any strong communities? No.

Make your conclusions before provoking others. You are a tajik from Tajikistan, who doesn't understand the problem. Nowadays, liberation wars are not popular. When countries are uniting, you are promoting partition. It is easy to say from your mountains "those lands belong to us". They don't. And, by your topic you are in no way helping tajiks in the country.
you must be thankfull to soviets coz you at least have now independent tajik state
without your holly russins brothers you even i doubt there would be soverign tajik country.

[Desperado]

I[ A JL JL O D']Voy bechoralar, bechora Tojiklar qaranglar birodar O'zbeklar, bechora Tojiklarni rosa qiynap qo'yipmizde a ?!!! Endi sizlar huddi bir Rimliklar, bizlar esa o'sha Rimni qullatgan va bosib olgan Varvarlar ekanmizde a ?!! Ha mayli, sizni gapizni to'g'riroq bo'lsa kerak, ahir siz Tojik sizku, men esa oddiy bir O'ZBEK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Qisqasi, sanlarni tillaringda atiga bitta iborani bilaman, o'sha ibora juda qo'l keladi sandagi separatist, racist tojiklar bilan gaplashganda: PISTA KUNET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tushundingmi ??? Samarqand ham, Buhoro ham bizlarniki bo'lgan, hozir ham bizlarniki va Hudo hohlasa bizlarniki bo'ladi !! O'zi oldin hozirgi Tojikiston ham bizlarniki bo'lgan, O'rislarni rahmi kelib sanlarga alohida davlat bergan ! Ha Tojikistondagi O'zbeklar O'zbek ilida ta'lim olishadi va millati O'zbekligini berkitmaydi, bilasanmi nimaga, chunki bizlar ba'zi birlarga o'hshab "pathalim" emasmiz ! O'zbek bo'lib tug'ilganmiz va O'zbek bo'lib olamdan o'tamiz !! Millatimiz O'zbek va pasportimizda ham millatimiz O'zbek !!!

P.S. etgancha, bitta hato qilibsan aqillik Tojik: "have learnt their poets how to..." emas "have taught their poets" bo'ladi. Uzr, O'zbek bo'lib turib sani gapingni to'g'irlagan bo'lsam !

:lol: :lool:

[Administrator]

While they have done a lot for this country and have shaped the culture and the genetics of Uzbek people distinguishing them from other Turkic tribes, have learnt their poets how to write poems in Uzbek, have re-created the Uzbek literature in Soviet time by Hamza Hakimzade of Rasht (Karategin) and Sadriddin Ayni of Bukhara, have established the Uzbek fim industry by Kamil Yarmatov of Asht, have given the most glorious cities of Bukhara and Samarqand to them...

So, why should they suffer under the fascistic chauvinism and oppression of the dump rulers who do not know their own past or don't want to admit it? Why do they have to disguise themselves as Uzbek? Why do they have to hide their real identity? Why do they have to study in a foreign language, instead of their own Persian?

How can you be indifferent to that sort of nomardlik? [While they have done a lot for this country and have shaped the culture and the genetics of Uzbek people distinguishing them from other Turkic tribes, have learnt their poets how to write poems in Uzbek, have re-created the Uzbek literature in Soviet time by Hamza Hakimzade of Rasht (Karategin) and Sadriddin Ayni of Bukhara, have established the Uzbek fim industry by Kamil Yarmatov of Asht, have given the most glorious cities of Bukhara and Samarqand to them...

So, why should they suffer under the fascistic chauvinism and oppression of the dump rulers who do not know their own past or don't want to admit it? Why do they have to disguise themselves as Uzbek? Why do they have to hide their real identity? Why do they have to study in a foreign language, instead of their own Persian?

How can you be indifferent to that sort of nomardlik?
is that what they teach to tajik kids at schools in Tajikistan ? :?

[Uzbekistan2010]

Ozbek millatiga rahmat aytishni urniga, bir chaqaga arzimaydigan gaplar yozib yuribdi. usha odamlardan millatchi chiqadi. Ozbekler hech qachon millat ayirmaydi. Ulardan na fundamentalsit, na kamikadze, na jihodjilar chiqadi

sababi bitta chunki biz ozbekmiz!!! Esimda bitta eronli forumga kirib buhoro, samarqand eronli tojiklarni dep chiqqan edi.
Vapshe hayronman. uchta ozbek honligi(khiva, buhoro, qoqon) negizida paydo bulgan davlatar. Qirqiziston, qozoqiston, tojikiston, turkmaniston (horazmni yeri edi.. afsus). Bu honlik va amirliklarning yeri, territoriysani markazi hazirgi Ozbekiston hududida joylashgan edi. Tak chto orta osiyodagi qolgan tortta davlat bizga qaram bulgan. Shu bilib qoying tojiku rafiqi birodarlar, qozoq doslar, turkmanlar

[SoniTa]

tupost' kakaya-to
moi Samarkandskiye druzya ele znayut uzbekskiy... POchemu? Potomu chto v shkole ih uchat na tadjikskom... Toje samoye s Buharoy, obichniy nabor: tadjikskiy, russkiy... Eto nenormal'no... Ne znayu komu kak, no schitayu chto grajdanin doljen znat' svoy gosudarstvenniy yazik...
A grafu nacional'nost' s passportov davno pora ubrat', tomu cheloveku komu ponadibilos' proverit' nash passport doljno bit' dostatochno togo chto mi UZBEKISTTANCI.

[PainKiller]

Peace Fellahs. I know Tajiks who do not speak Uzbek well at all. Cuz they did study in russian or tajik schools. I heard there are some in Bukhara and Samarkand:)
Tebe sovet:Esli i vpravdu oshutil diskriminaciyu po povodu svoey nacioanl'nosti, Obratis' K Nastoyashim Uzbekam. Mi takih sami nenavidem=)

[Guardian]

Peace!!!

Probably, the author is here with 'mission';)

Bukhara,(i am refering to the so called user) what is your problem? You are not helping to solve this question at all, as far as i think. 'You are provoking users into discrimination.

Dear all Tajiks, Uzbeks & rep/tives of other nations ..please, ignore this thread for the God's sake. Who cares about this? I think it causes just hate to each other. From old threads we know that users can't compromise with each other on this topic. :(

www.forum.uz is warm place for Uzbekistanies!!! :) Forget about the race or nationalism problems!

[Mogul]

On the behalf of all "tormentors" I appologize humbly for what we did!

[JoJ]

paru let nazad so svoimi odnokursnikami bil v Bukhare i Samarkande. Hoteli kupit granat, kogda sprosili po uzbeski nam skazali odnu senu, a po tadjiski sovsem druguyu (Asadbek, sizam oshanda biza bilan bolgandiz). ya protiv tadjikov nichego ne imeyu. no, mena besit kogda oni nachinayut govorit shto ozbekistonda tojiklani yomon korib, ulani pravalarini cheklab koyishgan. Oldin, hotia bi ozbekchani organib olila, loli hotinlaga ohshab dod-voy kimasdan. Yana, EBRDga arz kilganiga nima diysila bulani:rolleyes:

[Bukhara]

Lol, cant't you see yourselves how pathetic you sound in here? One consider the Uzbek leader a Tajik, while he's not (probably he himself is in doubt what he is), the other one dares to teach me English with his laughable pedentic approach. And the third one appears prophetically to shout one more time that Bukhara & Samarqand belonged, belong and will belong to Uzbeks, while the next one reiterates that couldn't buy a couple of pomegranates in Samarqand, just because he spoke Uzbek and the majority in there are Tajik... Can you mull over your own words, janoblar? You are actually confirming my concerns that Tajiks are under the threat of extinction under the fascistic regime of Uzbekistan? Does anyone wants to recollect the story with Tajiks replaced from their hometowns just a couple of years ago? Does anyone remember the thread of Tajik schools shutting down under Karimov's hammer in Samarqand and Bukhara and Tajik books burnt in an attempt to root out Persian-Tajiki from the country? How do you dare to quote a funny Uzbek official statistics of about a million Tajiks living in Uzbekistan? Is there anyone among you who has never met a Tajik in his neighborhood? Given the density of Uzbek population, does it give you a reason to even dream that only 1 million Tajiks live in Uzbekistan?

There was a guy moaning pathetically that he'd been named "Uzbek" officially, while he is Tajik and he could not see any way back to his real identity. That is a perfect example of the fascistic policy of the Uzbek governments implemented throughout decades.

Wake up, dudes, until it gets too late.

The words must be said, before they explode.

Peace!;)

[AL-Midwest]

Lol, cant't you see yourselves how pathetic you sound in here? One consider the Uzbek leader a Tajik, while he's not (probably he himself is in doubt what he is), the other one dares to teach me English with his laughable pedentic approach. And the third one appears prophetically to shout one more time that Bukhara & Samarqand belonged, belong and will belong to Uzbeks, while the next one reiterates that couldn't buy a couple of pomegranates in Samarqand, just because he spoke Uzbek and the majority in there are Tajik... Can you mull over your own words, janoblar? You are actually confirming my concerns that Tajiks are under the threat of extinction under the fascistic regime of Uzbekistan? Does anyone wants to recollect the story with Tajiks replaced from their hometowns just a couple of years ago? Does anyone remember the thread of Tajik schools shutting down under Karimov's hammer in Samarqand and Bukhara and Tajik books burnt in an attempt to root out Persian-Tajiki from the country? How do you dare to quote a funny Uzbek official statistics of about a million Tajiks living in Uzbekistan? Is there anyone among you who has never met a Tajik in his neighborhood? Given the density of Uzbek population, does it give you a reason to even dream that only 1 million Tajiks live in Uzbekistan?

There was a guy moaning pathetically that he'd been named "Uzbek" officially, while he is Tajik and he could not see any way back to his real identity. That is a perfect example of the fascistic policy of the Uzbek governments implemented throughout decades.

Wake up, dudes, until it gets too late.

The words must be said, before they explode.

Peace!;)
Bukhara
It was interesting to read your point and your comparison how facscistic is our goverment policy towards Tajik minority in Uzbekistan.......well I wonder if you could tell the same nonsence to Uzbeks in real life, not in this forum. I guess not, because if you did my dear Tajik friend your ass would be in a real bad shape over all-)
I am from Samarkand and I went to school in Samarkand, my neighbours were Tadjiks and even my roommate who lives with me actual real patriotic Tadjik. Comparing him to you my dear Tadjik friend I see huge difference. You know it's in a nature of humans us ( Tadjiks also included, don't make your people saints who's been suffering for ages under our fascistic regulations) to forget all favors our goverment gave to refugees from Tajikistan and your president when our dear neighbor was burning in civil war flames.
We let Tadjiks live in our country, gave them a shelter (of course we didn't give them castles and mountains of gold, but still-) ), let them study in Uzbek state in Tadjik schools that you guys feel some how comfortable. And one more thing it's interesting if we were so rough on you guys all these years and didn't let you live properly, how come Tadjik people had a quite prosperous business potentials in Samarkand?
Dear Tadjik youngster, I am not really angry on you, I am really sorry for you.....you know there is a two categories of people like you, the first ones are potential loosers, they blame everyone especially outsiders but not themselves ....the second ones potential retarded ones.......well I can guess you are not retarded, because you gotta be smart ass, who compared our policies to fascist tactics( that one was very catchy phrase, I think you can run for president with this statement -) ) so what category you belong ...well my freind figure out on your own, you got to options just use your patriotic potential, called brain;)
In conclusion all I can suggest you is you need to go out and get laid, otherwise it seems to us you way concentrated on Uzbeks. Believe me once you follow my advice you will feel much better:D
Cheers

[Guardian]

Bukhara
It was interesting to read your point and your comparison how facscistic is our goverment policy towards Tajik minority in Uzbekistan.......well I wonder if you could tell the same nonsence to Uzbeks in real life, not in this forum. I guess not, because if you did my dear Tajik friend your ass would be in a real bad shape over all-)
I am from Samarkand and I went to school in Samarkand, my neighbours were Tadjiks and even my roommate who lives with me actual real patriotic Tadjik. Comparing him to you my dear Tadjik friend I see huge difference. You know it's in a nature of humans us ( Tadjiks also included, don't make your people saints who's been suffering for ages under our fascistic regulations) to forget all favors our goverment gave to refugees from Tajikistan and your president when our dear neighbor was burning in civil war flames.
We let Tadjiks live in our country, gave them a shelter (of course we didn't give them castles and mountains of gold, but still-) ), let them study in Uzbek state in Tadjik schools that you guys feel some how comfortable. And one more thing it's interesting if we were so rough on you guys all these years and didn't let you live properly, how come Tadjik people had a quite prosperous business potentials in Samarkand?
Dear Tadjik youngster, I am not really angry on you, I am really sorry for you.....you know there is a two categories of people like you, the first ones are potential loosers, they blame everyone especially outsiders but not themselves ....the second ones potential retarded ones.......well I can guess you are not retarded, because you gotta be smart ass, who compared our policies to fascist tactics( that one was very catchy phrase, I think you can run for president with this statement -) ) so what category you belong ...well my freind figure out on your own, you got to options just use your patriotic potential, called brain;)
In conclusion all I can suggest you is you need to go out and get laid, otherwise it seems to us you way concentrated on Uzbeks. Believe me once you follow my advice you will feel much better:D
Cheers
Dear what else you gave:) 'We gave' emish ha.....:):)

[ganjubas]

Arguments by uzbek side:
1. There are plenty of tadjik schools in the country.
2. Uzbeks gave tadjiks refuge and let them live in their country during civil war.


Both arguments are very weak.
Counterarguments:
1. In my city in 1990 there were 6 tadjiks schools. Now there are three, two of which are half uzbek half tadjik. The approximate numbers of those who are tadjiks on their passports are 40 000, not counting those who are written as being uzbeks. If we say that 10 000 of these tadjiks are of school age, and that three schools are able to educate 2 000 puple(for which each schools should be pretty big), then 80 percent of tadjiks are forced to study in uzbek schools. You can check yourselves, if you are in Uzbekistan. Just ask, in Samarkand and Bukhara how many tadjik schools there were 15 years ago, and how many there are now.

2. If "we give shelter" to tadjiks meant tadjiks who are citizens of Uzbekistan, than it is the most stupid thing you could ever say. The ones who are born or bear the passport of the country do not need shelter, they are protected by constitution as anyone else.

If it meant shelter to tadjiks from Tadjikistan, than you will have to show any refugee camps in Uzbekistan that existed during the tadjik civil war. There were approximately 1 000 000 refugees, most of which went to Russia. Personally saw those who found refuge in Uzbekistan in the houses of relatives(this was the only possible way to live in Uzbekistan being from Tadjikistan at that time). State not only didn't help them in any way, but refugees were forced to frequently renew their registrations(which was impossible without bribes). They were constantly called by police and humiliated. If Uzbekistan officially helped them, then UN would help the government. Neither happened, the borders were tighter than ever before.


If you want to say something, you don't have to lie. There are other means of defeating provokers like "Bukhara". Up to now, your arguments were very weak, it sounds more like complaints of an old, sick woman.

[Administrator]

ochigini aytganda agar men prezident bolganimda bu maktablarni hammasini yopib tashlagan bolar edim.

[Administrator]

endi bir analiz qilaylik shu ohirgi 15 yil ichda kim kop aziyat chekdi tojikistonlik tojiklar mi yoki ozbekistonlik toiklar mi?huddi tsiganlar ozini pasportda ruskiy dep nomlab olgandek tojiklar ozini ozbek deo nomlab olgan bolsa bizni aybimiz nima?
buı odamzod illoki yahshilika yomonlik bilan javob bermasa koyni joyiga tushmass ekan.

[Uzbekistan2010]

Adminstrator javop berishga qiynaladi ular:rolleyes: :D oldingdan oqqan daryoning qadri yoq dep shuni aytishar ekanda

[JoJ]

Adminstrator javop berishga qiynaladi ular:rolleyes: :D oldingdan oqqan daryoning qadri yoq dep shuni aytishar ekanda
Administrator, Uzbekistan2006
mne kajetsa Joe zdes prav, nado ih prosto ignarirovat. mi vse ponimayem kakoy chuj eto vse. Noshukur bandalar bilan teng klib otirmaylik.

[PainKiller]

A, Писец им оказывается у нас жить трудно.. Ёлки-Палки!
Кто тут ещё Таджик? Поделитесь своим опытом! Я думала что живут они нормально. У меня соседи Таджики...И ничего, Живут нормально. Говорят на Узбекском, а что ещё им остаётся делать? Не всей же махалле под них подстраиватся и учить Таджикский. Таджики недолюбливают Узбеков. Была девушка в университете-Раьно. На одной из вечеринок она не зная что я Узбечка, сказала нашему общему другу:Ты ломаешся как Узбек. Офигеть у них гонор на потолке. Ну если на это пошло и вам не хватает школ в Узбекисане на Таджикском языке, и это повод для недовольства, Почему вы молчите будучи в Штатах? Тут Таджикских школ-не одноj. И культура ваша тут деградирует, изучаете Английский. Тут же нормально ходите?,

[tarafdor]

Ganjubas, salomat bo'ling, yagona kishi buni bir oz kallani devorga urmasdan ochiqlab berdi. Admin, forumda istagancha natsistlik qilish mumkin, lekin buni Olloh kursatmasin hayotda qullash mumkin emas. Haligi nima edi, bumerang degan narsa bor.

Tojiklarga maslahatim, bunday ziyodini istash bu albatta noshkurlik, kab.min. polnustyu qullaringda, Samarqand va Buhoroda eng boyvachalar sizlar, bundan ziyodini so'rash uje uyatda juralar. Tojiklarni mardi kup, bir ikkitalariga etibor bermasa. :lol:

[ganjubas]

A, Писец им оказывается у нас жить трудно.. Ёлки-Палки!
Кто тут ещё Таджик? Поделитесь своим опытом! Я думала что живут они нормально. У меня соседи Таджики...И ничего, Живут нормально. Говорят на Узбекском, а что ещё им остаётся делать? Не всей же махалле под них подстраиватся и учить Таджикский. Таджики недолюбливают Узбеков. Была девушка в университете-Раьно. На одной из вечеринок она не зная что я Узбечка, сказала нашему общему другу:Ты ломаешся как Узбек. Офигеть у них гонор на потолке. Ну если на это пошло и вам не хватает школ в Узбекисане на Таджикском языке, и это повод для недовольства, Почему вы молчите будучи в Штатах? Тут Таджикских школ-не одноj. И культура ваша тут деградирует, изучаете Английский. Тут же нормально ходите?,
Answering your question and ignoring your offensive words. In the US there are no cities where we constitute majority of population or even ten percent of population. Moreover, 99% tadjiks in the US were not born here.
But, look how many different schools they have here: All types of Jewish schools, Islamic, Christian. Does it say anything to you? They are more tolerant.

And, to everybody else. Don't think anybody is complaining. One thing is true about minorities, they always live better than the majorities. And, that is what I saw in Uzbekistan. About gratefulness to our grate uzbek brother, when I see next time the guy who used to come to clean our garden, I'll say "rahmat akajon, rahmat. Sizla biz uysiz tojilaga shaharlarizda joy berib, to haligacha ovqatimizga pulini berasizla, rahmat". :lol: They same attitude of uzbeks towards Russians, Tatars, Germans, Armenians, Jews and etc. made them all leave the country. Viva pure state of Uzbeks!

[Guardian]

Many thanks to Ganujabs for a enlightening post regarding the thread.

Personally, me, worried about the next posts. :rolleyes: :?
Users like Adminstrator and Uzbekistan2006 have already proven who they are. Otherwise, what do you think the moral/mental condition of the ppl who say:
huddi tsiganlar ozini pasportda ruskiy dep nomlab olgandek tojiklar ozini ozbek deo nomlab olgan bolsa bizni aybimiz nima?
buı odamzod illoki yahshilika yomonlik bilan javob bermasa koyni joyiga tushmass ekan....
Adminstrator
ochigini aytganda agar men prezident bolganimda bu maktablarni hammasini yopib tashlagan bolar edim....
Adminstrator,javop berishga qiynaladi ular :rolleyes: :)oldingdan oqqan daryoning qadri yoq dep shuni aytishar ekanda
Mda....bunaqa gaplar..!!! What are your problem? What the hellish feelings you have got against other nations? At least, do you love Uzbeks? I'm sure you can't say 100 yeses. I guess ppl like Adminstrator love just the word Uzbek, Turk and don't care the other problems at all. If you knew the history and saw the reality you would be able to avoid such childish, dumb (let me say SILLY) comments. <<<(To Adminstrator, Uzbekistan2006)

I would rather recommend to read a report from an objective body. Third party.

Uzbekistan, Ethnic Composition and Discriminations: by David Carlson,
Harvard University
August 2003 (http://medlem.spray.se/Samarqand/)
Thanks to all!
Joe
PS. Dear Admisntrator, Uz2006 I don't have any personal insult or hatred towards you, but what did you say was silly enough to confront
Peace..no offence

[shady_lady]

xm da ya toj s etim stolknulas':(
vse tadjiki daje v amerike gde kazalos' bi doljna bit' splochennost' nenavidyat uzbekov
ujas koroche:evil:

[JoJ]

....What are your problem? What the hellish feelings you have got against other nations? At least, do you love Uzbeks? I'm sure you can't say 100 yeses. .....

Joe, ya neponimayu tvoyu igru. Obesni kak sleduyet, ti prosish shto bi ignorirovali thread, a sam prodoljaesh postit. Kak eto ponimat, dorogoe?
Mne kajetsa i administrator i UZbekfootbal2006 skazali svoyo mneniya, hotia i v ochen grubom vide. I to shto skazal Buhoro fignia kakaya to. Vi jivete v uzemie Uzbekistana, budte razumni, uvajayte uzbekov. Inkognito bila prava, pochemu v USA tadjiki govoriat po angliyski, a unas v Uzbekistane mi doljni govorit po tadjikiski?

[Guardian]

Joe, ya neponimayu tvoyu igru. Obesni kak sleduyet, ti prosish shto bi ignorirovali thread, a sam prodoljaesh postit. Kak eto ponimat, dorogoe?
Mne kajetsa i administrator i UZbekfootbal2006 skazali svoyo mneniya, hotia i v ochen grubom vide. I to shto skazal Buhoro fignia kakaya to. Vi jivete v uzemie Uzbekistana, budte razumni, uvajayte uzbekov. Inkognito bila prava, pochemu v USA tadjiki govoriat po angliyski, a unas v Uzbekistane mi doljni govorit po tadjikiski?
Dear Brother Joj. Yes, i've asked to ignore and was ignoring for 10 houres, but ppl started to 'talk' i donno sopmehow. just thought it might be good to post my reaction. otherwise, i donno i felt like that.

Go to 27th post and read PS from the bottom paragraph.
Honestly, i don;t have any complaints or aggression at all:) Just, relaxing by posting:):):)
Dear, JoJ! I eat my humble pie if you bold me what was wrong by me ;):):)Anyway, thanx for you post:)
Respect!!!:)

[R.Azimov]

Assalomu alaykum Uzbekistan2006.

Biz ozbeklar millatchi bumaganmiz, bulmaymiz ham debsizu, Uzingizga uzingiz qarshi chiqib turibsiz: Aslini olganda hammang Ozbekistonga qaram bugansanlarBu yerda kursatganingiz J.M ning she'ri esa siz gapirayotgan yuqoridagi gaplarga umuman teskari ma'no berib turibdi.

ozbak deydi ayrim tojiklar, qozoqlar sart diydi.Nega???? Nima ayb bizda,Bu gaplaringiz ham urinlimas deb uylayman.

Ayrim tojiklar Ozbak, yoki qozoqlar Sart deyishi esa sizning boshqa milatlarga kura past yoki yuqori ekanligizdan emas, ularning xulq atvori va tarbiyasi qanaqaligidan dalolat beradi.

Orta osiyada eng kamsitilgan halq ozbek emasmi ???????????????? !!!!!!!Geografik nuqtai nazardan olib qaraganda gaplaringizni isbotlash uchun ba'zi davlatlarning joylashgan o'rnini bir biri bilan almashtirish kerak.


Millatchilik yaxshi narsa emas. Bu illatdan saqlanish kerak. Salomat bo'ling dono yigit.



Elegance.

[Mona Lisa]

One thing I didn't get it, when people in other side of the world getting closer regardless of their ethnic background/culture why we in Central Asia falling apart?
In Europe more 20 different cultures are finding common ground but just 5 nations of CA can't do that! In fact even Uzbek and Tadjik incapable of finding mutual ground.

[Uzbekistan2010]

Assalomu alaykum Uzbekistan2006.

debsizu, Uzingizga uzingiz qarshi chiqib turibsiz: Bu yerda kursatganingiz J.M ning she'ri esa siz gapirayotgan yuqoridagi gaplarga umuman teskari ma'no berib turibdi.

Bu gaplaringiz ham urinlimas deb uylayman.

Ayrim tojiklar Ozbak, yoki qozoqlar Sart deyishi esa sizning boshqa milatlarga kura past yoki yuqori ekanligizdan emas, ularning xulq atvori va tarbiyasi qanaqaligidan dalolat beradi.

Geografik nuqtai nazardan olib qaraganda gaplaringizni isbotlash uchun ba'zi davlatlarning joylashgan o'rnini bir biri bilan almashtirish kerak.


Millatchilik yaxshi narsa emas. Bu illatdan saqlanish kerak. Salomat bo'ling dono yigit.



Elegance.
rahmat Elegance, lekin men millatchi emasman:) sherini men aytgan gaplarga boglab qoymadim, uzimcha qoydim Yaxshi sher, fikrimga qarama qarshi buladimi, bumiydimi, farqi yoq!

har kim har hil fikr qiladi, yashiga qarab, intellektual salohiyotiga qarab. Balkim men sizning intellektual bilimingizdan ancha yiroqdirman.


SOG BOLING ELEGANCE

[Desperado]

kallavaramlar.
namuncha laqma bo'masalaring-a?
bir og'iz so'kish bilan javob berib qo'ysa bo'ladigan mavzu-ku bu, nimani laqillab o'tiribsanla?

[Desperado]

I[ A JL JL O D']P.S. Ramazonda so'kish noqulay

ichlaringizda demoqchidim :)

[SmIlIk]

Arguments by uzbek side:
1. There are plenty of tadjik schools in the country.
2. Uzbeks gave tadjiks refuge and let them live in their country during civil war.


Both arguments are very weak.
Counterarguments:
1. In my city in 1990 there were 6 tadjiks schools. Now there are three, two of which are half uzbek half tadjik. The approximate numbers of those who are tadjiks on their passports are 40 000, not counting those who are written as being uzbeks. If we say that 10 000 of these tadjiks are of school age, and that three schools are able to educate 2 000 puple(for which each schools should be pretty big), then 80 percent of tadjiks are forced to study in uzbek schools. You can check yourselves, if you are in Uzbekistan. Just ask, in Samarkand and Bukhara how many tadjik schools there were 15 years ago, and how many there are now.


Why do you think that somebody closed them all down? Why, for example, you are not saying that maybe most of them prefer to go to uzbek or russian schools? If somebody wants to study in tadjik he should be able to find the way. I do not doubt that there are very rich tadjik men who can fund opening private schools for their kids. At least just for sake of saving/teaching the language and their culture.

[ganjubas]

Why do you think that somebody closed them all down? Why, for example, you are not saying that maybe most of them prefer to go to uzbek or russian schools? If somebody wants to study in tadjik he should be able to find the way. I do not doubt that there are very rich tadjik men who can fund opening private schools for their kids. At least just for sake of saving/teaching the language and their culture.I do not want to continue this thread, but you are forcing me.
Ok, answering your question. First of all tadjik schools do not have enough books in tadjik, and government forbid using books from Tadjikistan and at the same time they are not printing themselves.Isn't it forcing to go to uzbek school? Why it is forbidden to bring books from Tadjikistan? Because, they do not comply with our ideology. And, how are you going to explain to kids that uzbek Shiroq is the same tadjik Sherak, and that one books says Sino was persian, the other turkish? To understand the whole issue you have to be a tadjik who for a while studied in a tadjik school. It seems to me useless to explain you, because people come up with more and more stupid and naive questions.

Do you know any private school in Uzbekistan? Any private educational institution? It is forbidden, again ideology. Check it yourself. Even turkish high schools, where me and you studied, are closed. One day our government will change its policy, and you can be sure that we will have our own private schools.

[SmIlIk]

I do not want to continue this thread, but you are forcing me.
Ok, answering your question. First of all tadjik schools do not have enough books in tadjik, and government forbid using books from Tadjikistan and at the same time they are not printing themselves.Isn't it forcing to go to uzbek school? Why it is forbidden to bring books from Tadjikistan? Because, they do not comply with our ideology. And, how are you going to explain to kids that uzbek Shiroq is the same tadjik Sherak, and that one books says Sino was persian, the other turkish? To understand the whole issue you have to be a tadjik who for a while studied in a tadjik school. It seems to me useless to explain you, because people come up with more and more stupid and naive questions.

Do you know any private school in Uzbekistan? Any private educational institution? It is forbidden, again ideology. Check it yourself. Even turkish high schools, where me and you studied, are closed. One day our government will change its policy, and you can be sure that we will have our own private schools.

I personally know a lot of private uzbek schools. Questions are never stupid and naive. They are only seem naive when you cannot answer them properly.

Did you try open a school?????? Or language center? Are you sure that your tajiks are going to be interested??????

Again and again somebody can fund printing books and necessary school supplies right in Uzbekistan. Do I have to be tajik to understand this? NO...
I have too many tajik nephews and cousins. I am half tajik myself.
God forbid from forcing you to answer my naive and stupid questions. U just want you to enlighten my stupidity.

It is very easy to blame someone else in your problems.

There are too many minorities in Uzbekistan and if every one of them will have 15 schools at a time we are going to have 15 official languages and ruling which will eventualy coz chaos. IT IS problem of tajiks to save their identity. Goverenment shouldn't be held responsible for that.

[diplomat]

Very interesting topic, but have only one concern about this.

I don't see any discrimination of Samarqandian and Bukhoroian tajiks. Maybe there is some discrimination in Tashkent or Ferghana Valley.

When I visited Samanrkand and Bukhoro, I felt that I was not welcome over there. I was like a foreign tourist in my own country. Nobody would speak uzbek. I would try to say something in tajiks or show with signs what I wanted. Is that right? And I personally felt that people from Tashkent are not welcome in Samarkand and Bukhoro.

Other than this i have no problem, I have a lot of tadjik friends whom I respect much.

[SmIlIk]

Very interesting topic, but have only one concern about this.

I don't see any discrimination of Samarqandian and Bukhoroian tajiks. Maybe there is some discrimination in Tashkent or Ferghana Valley.

When I visited Samanrkand and Bukhoro, I felt that I was not welcome over there. I was like a foreign tourist in my own country. Nobody would speak uzbek. I would try to say something in tajiks or show with signs what I wanted. Is that right? And I personally felt that people from Tashkent are not welcome in Samarkand and Bukhoro.

Other than this i have no problem, I have a lot of tadjik friends whom I respect much.

True. Nobody speaks of uzbeks being dicriminated on their own lands. But they do not kill or offend anybody, do they?

A lot has been said about Samarkand and Bukhara. Let's take another region like Khorezm where people from capital (or shall I say mainly uzbeks) have been called "o'sha/lar" !? very unpleasant and unwarm...

[ganjubas]

Smilik, there is NO private schools. Why are you lying. There is NO private school, it is not allowed to open private schools. You personally know private school, give me their names, numbers, address. I'm telling you again, there were people who wanted to sort of buy schools, but government said if you want to help, then pay us the money and we will spend it for the school. There are tutors, tutors of groups, but it is not a school, it is private tutoring which will not give you any degree or diplomas.

About funding schools, tadjiks are already doing what you suggest them to do. The schools that still exist are totally funded by parents.

Why are you so negative about schools. Is it something really bad? Don't you know that in those schools second language is uzbek, and we have to learn uzbek very well if want to get higher education. Tadjiks in Uzb. are born with three languages: tojiki, russian and uzbek.

Don't you yourself, Smilik, want your kids know your history and language? And, please do not compare tajiks with other minorities. First of all, we are the second largest ethnic group in the country. And, secondly, there are many cities where we are either majority or big minorities. You can go as far as you want counting our ancestors, they were all born in this land. Your comparison once more proves your intellectual capabilities.

In other countries usually they have obligatory classes of main subjects, and the rest are decided by each private school. When someone says, tadjik or russian school, uzbek gets angry and thinks he will be forced to speak tojiki or russian. Don't panic, whatzemmette wiz you? :)
I'm telling you, if I call you(Smilik) a stupid, it will be a compliment for you.

[SmIlIk]

Smilik, there is NO private schools. Why are you lying. There is NO private school, it is not allowed to open private schools. You personally know private school, give me their names, numbers, address. I'm telling you again, there were people who wanted to sort of buy schools, but government said if you want to help, then pay us the money and we will spend it for the school. There are tutors, tutors of groups, but it is not a school, it is private tutoring which will not give you any degree or diplomas.

About funding schools, tadjiks are already doing what you suggest them to do. The schools that still exist are totally funded by parents.

Why are you so negative about schools. Is it something really bad? Don't you know that in those schools second language is uzbek, and we have to learn uzbek very well if want to get higher education. Tadjiks in Uzb. are born with three languages: tojiki, russian and uzbek.

Don't you yourself, Smilik, want your kids know your history and language? And, please do not compare tajiks with other minorities. First of all, we are the second largest ethnic group in the country. And, secondly, there are many cities where we are either majority or big minorities. You can go as far as you want counting our ancestors, they were all born in this land. Your comparison once more proves your intellectual capabilities.
In other countries usually they have obligatory classes of main subjects, and the rest are decided by each private school. When someone says, tadjik or russian school, uzbek gets angry and thinks he will be forced to speak tojiki or russian. Don't panic, whatzemmette wiz you? :)
I'm telling you, if I call you(Smilik) a stupid, it will be a compliment for you.
I will take that for granted. school wise, I will tell you one school that I know very well. It is my mothers school. We just bought it off from government. It has 15 students right now and by her hard work I am positive we can do more than that. Address if you do not mind I will send it over PM.

Allow me to tell you that no one can measure my intellectual capabilities. Not even you. I hope you are not trying to tell me to ignore the needs of other minorities?????

What kind of country will allow its citizens to chose as their first language not of an official one? UZBEK is an official language as stated and for the second language one should chose whatever he/she wants. Otherwise this country's policy is going to go to hell.

Don't you say that I am panicing. It is you and people like you who are panicing, complaining, etc.

This matter must be solved peacefully. Let's not get hostile and not call names, like you love to do. If you will not seek for help from those uzbeks that you underestimate, I doubt that you are going to get anywhere.

P.S. I do not care what you think about me but you should be concerned what people will think about you as a representative of tajik nation.

[ganjubas]

Your answers are built in this way: I'm asking how old you are, you are answering that your name is Handalak. Try to answer questions, and give me the address of your mother's school(which you promised to send and didn't), where there are only 15 students and which is the first private one :)

The issue started on the schools that are being closed, and now you are telling me that no government allows schools where primary language is other than official. But, what about those schools that existed before, you suggest they should be closed? Russian and tadjik. Arguing with you is like running in a stadium. "I'm not nationalist, but I hate Tadjiks" is your slogan.

About me, being a representative of tadjiks, why are so worried about somebody's reputation? Think about your own, thousand kilometers away from you, one can feel how much angry you are about your (perhaps miserable) life. Don't start blaming me personally. If there were no this topic, you wouldn't attack me, right? So calm down. If you want I will delete my posts, go attack someone else.


And, I'm telling you, don't panic, relax. Everything is ok.

[JoJ]

Why are you so negative about schools.
ganjubas, why are u so negative about uzbeks? Why dont you wanna accept the true? Its clear to everyone, that you dont wanna speak uzbek, and moreover u hate em. Why? Cause u live in their motherland? U said u have to learn uzbek if you wanna get higher education. So, what? Now we, the situation is pushing you. U can ignore uzbek and go to Tadjikistan to develop ur knowledges.


Don't you yourself, Smilik, want your kids know your history and language? And, please do not compare tajiks with other minorities. First of all, we are the second largest ethnic group in the country.
DOnt you ganjubas u and people like you bring up ur children to hate uzbeks?
What is defference between you and other minorities? Me personally, dont see. Only thing is i dont feel that they belong to any minority, but you. Just imagine, is it good to feel like on guest when you r home?

Your comparison once more proves your intellectual capabilities.
its correct or not, but Smilik said her own opinion. and noone appointed and gave you right to estimate the users cause they said their own opinions

peace

[PainKiller]

Answering your question and ignoring your offensive words. In the US there are no cities where we constitute majority of population or even ten percent of population. Moreover, 99% tadjiks in the US were not born here.
But, look how many different schools they have here: All types of Jewish schools, Islamic, Christian. Does it say anything to you? They are more tolerant.

And, to everybody else. Don't think anybody is complaining. One thing is true about minorities, they always live better than the majorities. And, that is what I saw in Uzbekistan. About gratefulness to our grate uzbek brother, when I see next time the guy who used to come to clean our garden, I'll say "rahmat akajon, rahmat. Sizla biz uysiz tojilaga shaharlarizda joy berib, to haligacha ovqatimizga pulini berasizla, rahmat". :lol: They same attitude of uzbeks towards Russians, Tatars, Germans, Armenians, Jews and etc. made them all leave the country. Viva pure state of Uzbeks!Ganjubas, ti menya sosvem ne tak ponyal. Izvinyayus' esli chto-to poslishalos' kak oskorblenie.
Ya skazala, chto menya porazhaet, naskol'ko po vashim postam im u nas zhit' okazivaetsya trudno. Chestnoe slovo. Naschet togo chto Tadjikskih shkol malo, ya podderzhivayu. Pri zhelanii mozhno nayti, no uchit' detey po tajikskim knigam, NEEE. Pochemu? a potomu-chto v Tadjikskih uchebnikah po istorii, napisano mnogo togo chto protivorechit nashim uchebnikam. Gde samarkand nazvan istoricheskoy rodinoy tadjikov, kotoruyu zahvatili sosedi. Tozhe samoe v literature. Mnogie Istoricheskie Personazhi, kotorih mi uchili kak Nashi predki, v Tadzhikskih Uchebnikah nazvany predkami tadjikov. ili mozhno i bez etih predmetov? ili ti dumaesh' pravil'nim obuchenie odnoy gruppi molodyozi s ideyami protiv zemli gde oni sami virastayut? Ne strashno?
Sorry esli chto, Ya protiv Tadjikov nichego ne imeyu. Znayu tadjikov, kotorie uchatsya imeya shansi (ne uchitsya, a uchitsya v Taj. shk) v Russkih shkolah. Kak ti smotrish na to chto rodilis' nekotorie tadjiki v Uzbekistane, projili tut vsyu jizn', i ne govoryat na Uzbekskom?

[ganjubas]

ganjubas, why are u so negative about uzbeks? Why dont you wanna accept the true? Its clear to everyone, that you dont wanna speak uzbek, and moreover u hate em. Why? Cause u live in their motherland? U said u have to learn uzbek if you wanna get higher education. So, what? Now we, the situation is pushing you. U can ignore uzbek and go to Tadjikistan to develop ur knowledges. Joj, maybe you want me to be negative about uzbeks, but I'm not and I'm not going to explain why and how I love them either. Did I say I don't want to speak uzbek? I said we have to learn, meaning that don't be afraid guys, we will have to learn uzbek anyways. And, you found something offensive about that. And then you ask if I hate you because I live in your motherland. I live in my own motherland ;) And you or all uzbeks of the country together cannot send me to Tadjikistan by force. I'll go there if I want to, and I do not want.



DOnt you ganjubas u and people like you bring up ur children to hate uzbeks?
What is defference between you and other minorities? Me personally, dont see. Only thing is i dont feel that they belong to any minority, but you. Just imagine, is it good to feel like on guest when you r home? Where did you take it from that we teach our kids hartred towards uzbek? Do you think I'm so stupid to point out my kids uzbeks, and say these people are this and that? Just tell me, do you feel better when you feel hated? Otherwise where are you taking all these from?
I said we are the largest minority, does it make difference? I'm not against any minorities, because when other were here, you guys were more tolerant. And now more and more you are becoming blind nationalists who think and love to think that they are hated.


its correct or not, but Smilik said her own opinion. and noone appointed and gave you right to estimate the users cause they said their own opinions

peaceI said my own opinion to Smilik, and only to Smilik. And, when you talk about rights, think about rights of tadjiks in my motherland, Uzbekistan.

[SmIlIk]

Your answers are built in this way: I'm asking how old you are, you are answering that your name is Handalak. Try to answer questions, and give me the address of your mother's school(which you promised to send and didn't), where there are only 15 students and which is the first private one :)

The issue started on the schools that are being closed, and now you are telling me that no government allows schools where primary language is other than official. But, what about those schools that existed before, you suggest they should be closed? Russian and tadjik. Arguing with you is like running in a stadium. "I'm not nationalist, but I hate Tadjiks" is your slogan.

About me, being a representative of tadjiks, why are so worried about somebody's reputation? Think about your own, thousand kilometers away from you, one can feel how much angry you are about your (perhaps miserable) life. Don't start blaming me personally. If there were no this topic, you wouldn't attack me, right? So calm down. If you want I will delete my posts, go attack someone else.


And, I'm telling you, don't panic, relax. Everything is ok.
ohhhh, I am sooooo miserable and my only way out is attacking your unpolished ideas. You live in Canada right??? why did you go there? coz they had tadjik schools?

Your replies are full of hatred and no logical solution. Who told you that I hate tadjiks??? or did you take a part time job as an Oracle?

I decided not to give you the address of the PRIVATE institution. Think whatever you want, do whatever you want. I am realizing that you are not worth debating with.

[AL-Midwest]

ohhhh, I am sooooo miserable and my only way out is attacking your unpolished ideas. You live in Canada right??? why did you go there? coz they had tadjik schools?

Your replies are full of hatred and no logical solution. Who told you that I hate tadjiks??? or did you take a part time job as an Oracle?

I decided not to give you the address of the PRIVATE institution. Think whatever you want, do whatever you want. I am realizing that you are not worth debating with.Hey Smilik
Forget about this retarded looser, I was surprised to see your post girl...so how you doing, visited your link, it's really good
just keep in touch
Cheers

[ganjubas]

Some excerpts from a scholar source:


David Carlson, Harvard University
August 2003


The most obvious indicator of alienation is the mass emigration since the end of the Soviet Union of Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, Crimean Tatars and Jews, who had lived in Uzbekistan for several generations.


Persian-Tajik literary and scientific figures such as Biruni, Navai, and Avicenna are claimed as exclusively Uzbek.




A more subtle exclusion by Uzbek nationalism involves the Tajiks of Uzbekistan. The first cities in Central Asia were undoubtedly Persian/Tajik.

Tajikistan lost its two centers--Bukhara and Samarkand--to Uzbekistan. In subsequent years, Uzbekistan has unsuccessfully attempted to suppress the identity of the population of those cities.
In the words of William Beeman, professor of anthropology at Brown University: "The Tajik situation in some ways resembles that of post-colonial Africa. Tajiks have been given an impossible piece of territory with disparate population and have been forced to make a nation out of it."

Reports described an official Uzbekistani government policy of discrimination against the Tajik minority.The Tajik-language schools have been closed. Tajiks are forced to change and register their identdity as Uzbeks.

According to "International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights (IHF)" report 2002:

"In March, the Tajik-language newspaper Oina (Mirror) was closed down by the authorities in Samarkand on the formal ground that it had published material running contrary to the policies of the State. The former editor-in-chief, Rakhim Mavloni, insisted that the newspaper had merely tried to cover the challenges faced by the Tajik minority in an objective way."


The real number of Tajiks living in Uzbekistan believed to be over 40 percent (10-12 millions).


The key figure behind the Tajik tragedy is President Islam Karimov of Uzbekistan who feared that the emergence of the Islamic-democratic opposition in Tajikistan would strengthen anti-Karimov opposition in Uzbekistan, thereby jeopardizing his rule. Moreover, a Tajik national revival was threatening Karimov's plans to turn his country into a regional super-power and a first stge to a "Greater Uzbekistan".


"In my village where only Tajiks live, in a library near my place now there is not a single book in Tajik. The worst thing is that masterpieces of world literature, works by Avicenna, Saadi, Shakespeare, Byron, Pushkin, `Robinson Crusoe' by Daniel Defoe and many others are being destroyed", an IHROU representative in Samarkand, Jamol Mirsaidov, said.





Notice numerous referrances to HRW, Amnesty International and local HRW NGOs. You can call me whatever you like, racist, nationalist or whatever.I used to think uzbeks were friendly, and that it was government's policies but you guys proved that government is largely backed by people like you. Any conflict is not in your interest in the first place. By your neglecting the problem you are leading the country with "buyuk kelajak" straight towards haos of nationalism and civil war.

Well, good luck guys.

[SoniTa]

gangubas,
I like objective facts - meaningly I like facts where two sides said their words. The article with that you are arguing with is subjective one. It seems David Carlson lived in Samarkand and was biased by some "good-minded" ppl that told him "real stroies" abt uzbeks. Uzbek where shown as completly evil, and poor-poor tadjiks as victims.
You know, this situation reminds me that of Palestine-Israely.
So take a look at situation by this point of view. Tadjiks (Jews) in old-old times had Sam-Bukh (Haarets Israel), than this land no matter by which way became Uzbek (Palestinian). Than after some time Jews remembered "hey, that was my land bunch of centuries ago, there live a lot of my ppl" And so they shouted about human rights, THEIR mother-land and blah-blah-blah...
I remember you were for Palestinians in that conflict, so in this case, if you were completely objective (meaningly if you weren't the representative of one side) , guess for whom you would be for... Uzbeks. Funny huh? (:
Truth is that Israelies get what they get, but that won't happen in Uzbekistan, because history taught its lesson,
Uzbeks are not Palestinians, and they won't be a victim to give up their land to anybody, even to brothers. You had your chance and completely YOUR land - Tadjikistan, the question is how did you use your chance... not sure that in the best way, though I have no right to judge of course...
and Tadjiks are not Jews, you understand what I mean...
Uzbekistan is little country, if we will divide it into mln. of pieces it won't make it stronger. So let's deal with the current Uzbek map - map of unbroken country.

I liked Smilik's point of view in this case. Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих. Jews do it in the same way here in Uzbekistan. Some philantrops pay for the education, for supporting cultural centers, for keeping sinagogues...

[SoniTa]

честно пошла по ссылке на статью (:
and in what directory it is in? Samarkand!!!
So my guess abt the source for the article seems to be right...
Дааа, вовремя опомнились власти, чтоб этой националистической <...> не забивали детям головы... А может уже поздно, и ждать нам ещё одной гражданской...
Воистину, не учатся люди на своих ошибках...

[Guardian]

gangubas,
I like objective facts - meaningly I like facts where two sides said their words. The article with that you are arguing with is subjective one. It seems David Carlson lived in Samarkand and was biased by some "good-minded" ppl that told him "real stroies" abt uzbeks. Uzbek where shown as completly evil, and poor-poor tadjiks as victims.
You know, this situation reminds me that of Palestine-Israely.
So take a look at situation by this point of view. Tadjiks (Jews) in old-old times had Sam-Bukh (Haarets Israel), than this land no matter by which way became Uzbek (Palestinian). Than after some time Jews remembered "hey, that was my land bunch of centuries ago, there live a lot of my ppl" And so they shouted about human rights, THEIR mother-land and blah-blah-blah...
I remember you were for Palestinians in that conflict, so in this case, if you were completely objective (meaningly if you weren't the representative of one side) , guess for whom you would be for... Uzbeks. Funny huh? (:
Truth is that Israelies get what they get, but that won't happen in Uzbekistan, because history taught its lesson,
Uzbeks are not Palestinians, and they won't be a victim to give up their land to anybody, even to brothers. You had your chance and completely YOUR land - Tadjikistan, the question is how did you use your chance... not sure that in the best way, though I have no right to judge of course...
and Tadjiks are not Jews, you understand what I mean...
Uzbekistan is little country, if we will divide it into mln. of pieces it won't make it stronger. So let's deal with the current Uzbek map - map of unbroken country.

I liked Smilik's point of view in this case. Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих. Jews do it in the same way here in Uzbekistan. Some philantrops pay for the education, for supporting cultural centers, for keeping sinagogues...
I enjoyed the imagination by you. Really nice explanatory way. But, i think you have got just some miistakes, that are shadowing both the facts and the reality.
Your comparision style of: Israeli-Palastinians

It doesn't look like Tadjiks(Jews)-Uzbeks(Poor Palastinies) al all,
but Uzbeks-nationalists(Jews) vs Uzbekistanies-Internationalists(Palastinians). Mdaaaaaa:evil:

If it were to me, I would estimate your post as a full of bullish nationalist stuff. You are showing reality here. it's obviously shown that you do not like ppl of other nationals in Uzbekistan, you think just UZBEKs own the land, and they did build Uzbekistan. If so you made big mistake. Hey, listen could you be so proud of the word (just the word )UZBEK (that you probably love now), if Russians wouldn't segregate YOU from other 4 central asian states. You don't even have chance. If you say YES, you will be against what you said in the quoted post above.
Think wider, wiser or logicallly, and argue logically and hope you will not get any like that reaction then.

Here, i have read lots of super nationalist posts, that makes me lough in most of them. You are spending so much time, mental power in like that silly argues. What is the result till now? Any effectiveness? No!!! :evil:

I couldn't get the point what did Smilik want to say? :qstn: Does she know what she is argueing for? NO!!! :qstn: Just blank confront without bright aim.....plus nationalist ideas.

Here,Uzbekistan is little country, if we will divide it into mln. of pieces it won't make it stronger. So let's deal with the current Uzbek map - map of unbroken country. I really appreciate such open ideas, statements.:) I think it would get better if we change the words Uzbek map to Uzbekistan, and second map to people and it would sound like:

Uzbekistan is little country, if we will divide it into mln. of pieces it won't make it stronger. So let's deal with the current Uzbekistan - people of unbroken country.

Thanks to all, Plz don't take my post as insult or p[ersonal effence in any case. i said just frankly.:)

Joe

[ganjubas]

Sonita, I can bring you tens of articles about tadjiks in Uzbekistan, and will you still insist that all those authors are brain-washed? And, do you really think whatever I said about what I know is a fiction? Think about it.

In NO way I am for seperatism. It is IMPOSSIBLE and I do not want it. I'm for tolerance and coexistance of different ethnic/religous groups in my motherland. Just as it is everywhere else. A simple issue of schools in my language is opposed by you(uzbeks) so much, I do not see any peacefull future. Either tadjiks will leave the country as many others did, or wait for serious conflicts.

P.S. I don't know where did you get that I'm for palestinians. Perhaps you just assumed, considering the fact that I'm a muslim. In israeli-palestinian conflict I'm for peace. Peaceful coexistant of both sides as one whole country. Palestinians are the most educated nation in Arab world, and Jews are, of course, educated as well. Their country will prosper. Don't make decisions for me, please. Thank you

[bruno]

Joe,
your stance is respected, even though you tend to be biased - ignoring some subjectivity which doesn't suit you;) .
Ganjubas,
I am sorry to tell, but you are the one provoking all the mess -'mutit vodu'.
a) I am sure that Smilik responded in a friendly manner - due to the confusion, when you say uzbek government, it has a connotation - overlapping with uzbek nation, whereas they are different entities. Also, when you talk about schools - it's quantative not qualitative, so it doesn't tell us much. Meaning - we know they are closing, but not reasons (true reasons), the books is your conjecture based on talking to limited number of people. The same could be said about russian schools, but if you look into it there might be a number of other reasons - less locals going to russian schools, russian migration etc. So, your conjecture is not valid. Causal direction might be the other way - less people willing to go to tajik schools (zillion reasons -higher education etc.), therefore, closing of schools. But you positively stated (based on limited info) that reason was books. Books - the same is true in Tajikistan, uzbek schools are not allowed to use uzbek books (i mentioned article earlier) - the reasons - u are right, idealogy (government) and educational policy/program is unified for uzbekistan - should be the same irrespective of language taught (true in all states with unified school policy). The schools being totally funded by parents - your exageration (sure there is a government funding in it) and the same could be said about most schools in Tashkent (parents pay for almost everything - reconstruction etc.).
Your remark about - stupidity: underlying assumtion you are smarter than Smilik (which is not proven???); logic - smarter people can call less intelegent ones names, namely - stupid; sure, you are not the brightest, I guess, here, so shall all the people who believe they are smarter than you (which is also not proven) call you stupid? besides, she is a lady. be a man.
b) i believe, Sonita might have responded to your posts due to the subjectivity and hidden message in regard to tajik superiority.
subjectivity - you call, guys informational leaflet - scholarstic work? Either you don't know what science is or pretend and manipulate the data to prove your point (which is more likely based on your previous posts). It is a story rather than a research. Story told by a person who has been exposed to one side of the issue. I am sure, story would be very different if he had a meeting with uzbeks (for example, desperado, administrator). Go and see - I would like to point out only few obvious 'mistakes', which show that he is a diletant in the issue - statue in Tashkent (marx?), Navoi - persian?, uzbeks conquered in 15th century (doesn't know ethnicities - can't tell Uzbekhan and uzbeks); 40% - joke? etc. Note, I am not saying what all said is lie; there might be some true, but still it is not something one should blindly trust - highly biased.
superiority - tajiks are better, enforced by the fact that uzbeks serve you, your family - clean, akajon, remember.
So, probably she reacted to what you implied. Excuse me, but you are like fox - manipulate your speech and data to fit your goals. - I love uzbeks, but they still serve my family - so, what you expect to get back for such messages!
c) Besides, it's been told that it's political and no point harping here with the issue. The more you try to use, people start thinking maybe all tajiks have such a hidden feeling towards us.
d) uzbeks - being nationalists. do you know what the ratio of tajik and uzbek forum users? My guess, it's a lot higher than ratio of responses here. So, make your own conclusion.
e) my friend, there are better ways of serving your nation then this one. This way of doing is most certainly disservice. As I said, I also started doubting, if there is a realy hatred among tajiks, after all this kind of postings.
kindest regards,
ps. I have deliberately not mentioned emotional/unsupported postings

[bruno]

Last point - I actually liked your posting in one of the similar threads - about uzbekistan being everybodies motherland etc. etc. If it was sincere feeling, than that should be the way (smarter way) to address the issue, my friend.
When you view (expect) smb to be an enemy, he will become eventually. The point is u send mixed messages (implications) - uzbek government is bad, but it is bad because uzbeks are bad.
anyway, in a few years - as you grow, sure your view of the problem will change - I hope.

ps. about the shelter - it was a mistake; it is an obligation to help when in need, and mentioning it this way would be inacceptable - minnat:shock: . so, it's not even an issue to discuss.

[tarafdor]

Yahsanglar e, yozmaymiz yozmaymiz deb noz qilib, mana 4 chi betga kelibsiz. Haiqqiy yozuvchi halqmizda o'zi, hamma manosida. :lol:

[ganjubas]

Bruno, in general you are right. But, let me point out some of your mistakes.

Destruction of books was general. It is an order from the government which concerns every school. Check here: http://www.eurasianet.org/resource/tajikistan/hypermail/200105/0004.html

Your post is one-sided. Count the number of posts where people say that tadjiks should appreciate whatever uzbeks did to them. Isn't it offensive minnat(as you said)? To an insult, I responded by an obvious insult about gardener. But, admit mine is minor because it is a response of an insulted.

You did a good analisys of my posts. But, there is not even one word about what they were addressed to-to the posts of others, sometimes very offensive ones.

And, it is my last post in this topic. But, my vision of uzbeks as tolerant people changed greatly, "thanks" to this topic. Good luck

[4twelve]

Waovv Even Uzbekistan also face with this kind of problems :( ..Is there too many person feel like Ganjubash Or is this a minority problem?????

Could you pls give some informatoin about it..Cauz i am really unfamiliar about this topic.......:?

[SmIlIk]

Nobody denied difficulties that tadjiks experience in Uzbekistan. After independece of Uzbekistan I thought things got a little better at some point but as some of us saying got worse in others.

Ganjubas, I just want you to undertand the fact that even if government will open 10,000.00 tadjik schools it is not going to make any positive changes in all those MAJOR problems we have in the country. As bruno said, not the quantity should matter, it better be all about quality.

Maybe this is getting old already but the problems you have in Uzbekistan cannot not be solved without uzbek help (this cannot be considered as minnat or whatsoever. This is basic diplomacy). Therefore, do not rush to turn your back to them. LEARN to cooperate and to build simple dialog between uzbek&tadjik.

[JoJ]

Isn't it offensive minnat(as you said)?
isnt it nonkorlik?

yoooooo, tovbaye inson hech kachon bir-birini tushunmas ekande. eeeee, odamlar esilardan chikarmela katta yashavotganilani. bilaman, hozir srazu bizam botta tugilganmiza, botam bizani vatanimiza deb tashashno boshlisila, lekin bu intelektualniy uroveni normalniy oddoy odamnikidan kam bolmagan har bir kishi uchun tushunarliku. OZBEKistonda ozbeklar mehmon emas, mezbondirlar. nimaga endi ozbeklar oz yurtlarida, asosiy aholisi ozbek bolgan joyda boshka tilda majburan gapirishlari kerak? Ahir nimaga endi biror narsa talab kilishdan oldin hurmat kilishni bilmisila?

eto moy poledniy post v etom threade. nadeyus ganjubas, espesially you, understand what i mean.

[bruno]

Ganjubas,
you didn't get my point.


Bruno, in general you are right. But, let me point out some of your mistakes.

Destruction of books was general. It is an order from the government which concerns every school. Check here: http://www.eurasianet.org/resource/tajikistan/hypermail/200105/0004.html

I didn't say that this problem doesn't exist, did I?

Your post is one-sided. Count the number of posts where people say that tadjiks should appreciate whatever uzbeks did to them. Isn't it offensive minnat(as you said)? To an insult, I responded by an obvious insult about gardener. But, admit mine is minor because it is a response of an insulted.

I was not one-sided: I liked Joe's stance, didn't say anything abt Bukhara.
Minnat is not offensive - it's no manners. There is a difference between them. And most of those postings were initiated by ur postings (subjective 'evidence').

You did a good analisys of my posts. But, there is not even one word about what they were addressed to-to the posts of others, sometimes very offensive ones.

I didn't do any analysis, just pointed out few discrepancies. Most of the previous postings were addressed or emotional. I told that they were deliberately ommitted.

The point I was trying to make is compare two postings yours and Joe's. Your mostly gets all the types of responses, not Joe's. So, probably it's a personality issue rather than a ethnicity issue?
I was suggesting that maybe you pass on different message in a different way, which provokes the kind of responses. It's like provoking the kind of responses and then saying you guys are not tolerant or stepping on dogs leg and then saying that it bites.
the messages I get from ur postings - i am smarter, more successful (richer?), therefore, tajiks are superior; if u don't agree with me or confront me on any points then you are against tajiks? - maybe they were not intended, but that's what I got, and probably others.
mode you communicate - stinking and uneducated turks (implying - smb don't stink and more educated), questions are stupid, naive, as yourself Handalak, plus thank me for the compliment (again implying the opposite) etc.
what you expect after these messages - people don't know much abt you so they use whatever is at hand (ethnicity) to make you feel the same way.
I am sure, that if you said for example - Admin or whoever, brother, we are brothers and the same infront of the God, why would you say that - anybody would say, sorry that it's was misunderstanding or provoked by other postings.
Or Hilolahon, you are the kindest person with amazing smile, I have met so far.:D by the way what did you mean by that?
Or Sonita, I am falling in love with that lady in white dress. Before, loosing completely my head, let's discuss the issue you brought up:D .
I am sure, that girls would say that who cares abt who you are. Let's party:D
The point - try different strategy and see different results, hopefully. Joe's example is an evidence.
good luck
ps. sick and tired of this type of discussions:(

[SmIlIk]

Here, I really appreciate such open ideas, statements.:) I think it would get better if we change the words Uzbek map to Uzbekistan, and second map to people and it would sound like:


Uzbek-istan degani Uzbeklarning o'lkasi degani emasmi? Tadjik-istan deganichi? Tojiklarning o'lkasimi?

Sizniyam, millatdoshlaringizniyam hafa qilish niyatim yoq, bahudo. Bas O'zbekistonda yashayaptimi inson, ushbu mamlakatning qonun qoidalariga, aqidasiga hurmat bilan qarash kerak. Agar hamma o'zbeklar, siz aytaningizdek nacionalist (NACIZTmi yoki?) gitler kabi bo'lganida tojik millati umuman qolmagan bo'ardi O'zbekistonda. Problema chiqarmasdan tinch yashashni o'rganamizami biza yoqmi?

[bruno]

Dear JoJ,

I don't agree with you on the point that it's only uzbek's land. It is as well ganjubas and Joe' and anybody else's land, irrespective of how long he lived here as long as he identifies himself with it. So, they are also mezbons as we are. And I guess, nobody said that uzbeks should be speaking in other languages.
it's a matter of economic incentives who will learn what language.
Let's not make a big issue out of nothing, who cares who is who. important point is we lived, live and will live toghether peacefully:D
kindest regards,



isnt it nonkorlik?

yoooooo, tovbaye inson hech kachon bir-birini tushunmas ekande. eeeee, odamlar esilardan chikarmela katta yashavotganilani. bilaman, hozir srazu bizam botta tugilganmiza, botam bizani vatanimiza deb tashashno boshlisila, lekin bu intelektualniy uroveni normalniy oddoy odamnikidan kam bolmagan har bir kishi uchun tushunarliku. OZBEKistonda ozbeklar mehmon emas, mezbondirlar. nimaga endi ozbeklar oz yurtlarida, asosiy aholisi ozbek bolgan joyda boshka tilda majburan gapirishlari kerak? Ahir nimaga endi biror narsa talab kilishdan oldin hurmat kilishni bilmisila?

eto moy poledniy post v etom threade. nadeyus ganjubas, espesially you, understand what i mean.

[JoJ]

Dear JoJ,

I don't agree with you on the point that it's only uzbek's land. It is as well ganjubas and Joe' and anybody else's land, irrespective of how long he lived here as long as he identifies himself with it. So, they are also mezbons as we are. And I guess, nobody said that uzbeks should be speaking in other languages.
it's a matter of economic incentives who will learn what language.
Let's not make a big issue out of nothing, who cares who is who. important point is we lived, live and will live toghether peacefully:D
kindest regards,
surely answer u later

[SmIlIk]

Bruno, I am sure JoJ didn't mean it that way. It is like in Turkey and America.
If you have citizenship of those countries than you are American or Turk by passport (ID) but where it says "millet" or "origin" in your documents, it clearly written "tadjik" or "uzbek", "russian"... People do not "own" the land solely. Land belongs to everybody who lives on it and cares about it but if one turns the land into a battlefield for no necessary reason instead of prospering it, I believe, that person do not deserve living there.

[bruno]

That's right Hilolahon,

who lives and cares about it. I am sure Joe does, and many other people irrespective of origin. Hope Ganjubas also does;) . anyways, the more we talk about the problems (differences), the more people get sensitive and it gets worse - my view. the more you talk abt similarities, the more they unite.
So now, you should say let's party to Ganjubas;)



Bruno, I am sure JoJ didn't mean it that way. It is like in Turkey and America.
If you have citizenship of those countries than you are American or Turk by passport (ID) but where it says "millet" or "origin" in your documents, it clearly written "tadjik" or "uzbek", "russian"... People do not "own" the land solely. Land belongs to everybody who lives on it and cares about it but if one turns the land into a battlefield for no necessary reason instead of prospering it, I believe, that person do not deserve living there.

[Guardian]

Nobody denied difficulties that tadjiks experience in Uzbekistan. After independece of Uzbekistan I thought things got a little better at some point but as some of us saying got worse in others.

Ganjubas, I just want you to undertand the fact that even if government will open 10,000.00 tadjik schools it is not going to make any positive changes in all those MAJOR problems we have in the country. As bruno said, not the quantity should matter, it better be all about quality.

Maybe this is getting old already but the problems you have in Uzbekistan cannot not be solved without uzbek help (this cannot be considered as minnat or whatsoever. This is basic diplomacy). Therefore, do not rush to turn your back to them. LEARN to cooperate and to build simple dialog between uzbek&tadjik.

I am trying to do this all the time.....:( but you are provoking yourself, kinda opposition from you looking ppl, with sarcastic posts. Mda...:( Moreover there should not be just uzbek&tajik but, mutual dialogue between all other nations living in Uzbekistan, who have also built no less then uzbeks, who sacrifised not less then uzbeks and who love the land, nation no less then uzbeks. So take it easy and chill, madam. ;)

Let's unite...who cares about nationality any more...let's party..:)
thanx

[SoniTa]

ganjubas,
my vision of uzbeks as tolerant people changed greatly, "thanks" to this topic
everyone gets the answer that one wants to get... and the fact that you are going out of this topic only shows that your mission was to get this answer, not to discuss and search the ways... now your mission is complete, we are all black, and you are white and fluffy... I still hope that you are better than that...

[JoJ]

Dear JoJ,

I don't agree with you on the point that it's only uzbek's land. It is as well ganjubas and Joe' and anybody else's land, irrespective of how long he lived here as long as he identifies himself with it. So, they are also mezbons as we are. And I guess, nobody said that uzbeks should be speaking in other languages.

Dorogoy bro,
Ti mena nepravilno ponel, mojet ya sam nepravilno virazilsa. If you reread my previous posts again, u understand what I mean. Ya soglasen s toboy, shto eto zemlia(Uzbekistan) prinadlejit ne tolko uzbekam. Zdes u nas jivut i tadjiki, i kazahi, i russkiyi and other minorities. Takje mojet bit shto chelovek ne uzbek, rodilsa v Uzbekistane i delayet dlia etoy strani bolshe chem real uzbeki. No, kogda govoritsa o Francii, lyudi ponimayut shto eto mesta gde jivut fransizu(hotia u nih toje nemalo nas. menshin), Germany nemsov(ti sam naverno, znayesh skolko tam turkov), takje i seliy svet o Uzbekistane.
Ya sam bil i v Samarkande i v Buhare. Mne ne nravitsa pochemu ya doljen govorit po tadjikiski esli nehochu shto bi mena "kinuli" kak inostrannogo turista ili prodali po sene vishe chem tadjiko govoriashim, kogda eto zemlia Uzbekistan. Esli ti sam ezdil tuda, ti poymesh o chem eto ya.
Ya govoril i esho raz skaju, ya protiv tadjikam, kak i drugim nasional. nichego ne imeyu. No, esli oni hotiat shkoli, esli oni hotiat something more, eto doljno bit vzaimno. Oni sami eto doljni poniat.

Very hope u understand what i mean
Good luck

[bruno]

Izvini drug,
i v pravdu nepravil'no ponyal. v dannom sluchaye s toboy polnost'yu soglasen. Kak vidish, vsya problema v vospriyatii. Ti podrazumeval drugoye, ya vosprinyal ego kak sovsem drugoye.
udachi

Dorogoy bro,
Ti mena nepravilno ponel, mojet ya sam nepravilno virazilsa. If you reread my previous posts again, u understand what I mean. Ya soglasen s toboy, shto eto zemlia(Uzbekistan) prinadlejit ne tolko uzbekam. Zdes u nas jivut i tadjiki, i kazahi, i russkiyi and other minorities. Takje mojet bit shto chelovek ne uzbek, rodilsa v Uzbekistane i delayet dlia etoy strani bolshe chem real uzbeki. No, kogda govoritsa o Francii, lyudi ponimayut shto eto mesta gde jivut fransizu(hotia u nih toje nemalo nas. menshin), Germany nemsov(ti sam naverno, znayesh skolko tam turkov), takje i seliy svet o Uzbekistane.
Ya sam bil i v Samarkande i v Buhare. Mne ne nravitsa pochemu ya doljen govorit po tadjikiski esli nehochu shto bi mena "kinuli" kak inostrannogo turista ili prodali po sene vishe chem tadjiko govoriashim, kogda eto zemlia Uzbekistan. Esli ti sam ezdil tuda, ti poymesh o chem eto ya.
Ya govoril i esho raz skaju, ya protiv tadjikam, kak i drugim nasional. nichego ne imeyu. No, esli oni hotiat shkoli, esli oni hotiat something more, eto doljno bit vzaimno. Oni sami eto doljni poniat.

Very hope u understand what i mean
Good luck

[SmIlIk]

I am trying to do this all the time.....:( but you are provoking yourself, kinda opposition from you looking ppl, with sarcastic posts. Mda...:( Moreover there should not be just uzbek&tajik but, mutual dialogue between all other nations living in Uzbekistan, who have also built no less then uzbeks, who sacrifised not less then uzbeks and who love the land, nation no less then uzbeks. So take it easy and chill, madam. ;)

Let's unite...who cares about nationality any more...let's party..:)
thanx

Ohh Gosh, I don't know how you read my posts. First I told that we cannot ignore needs of other minorities, then ganjubas told me to not to be stupid and compare needs of tadjiks with other minorities. Now you are trying to tell me that all minorities are the same? why don't you guys (tajiks) find a common ground of your ideas first??? :) how am I provoking myself?

Joe, can you give me ONE or TWO good solutions that will help imrove the situation of Tajiks in Uzbek region???


P.S. Count me in for party but please, do not tell me to chill, I find it as an offensive word...

[Guardian]

Ohh Gosh, I don't know how you read my posts. First I told that we cannot ignore needs of other minorities, then ganjubas told me to not to be stupid and compare needs of tadjiks with other minorities. Now you are trying to tell me that all minorities are the same? why don't you guys (tajiks) find a common ground of your ideas first??? :) how am I provoking myself?

Joe, can you give me ONE or TWO good solutions that will help imrove the situation of Tajiks in Uzbek region???


P.S. Count me in for party but please, do not tell me to chill, I find it as an offensive word...
First, let me tell you smthng, sorry, previous one was sounded wrong coz the missed comma by me.
You are provoking, yourself!!!
Being moderator you are just making the discussion more severe.
...then ganjubas told me to not to be stupid and compare needs of tadjiks with other minorities. Now you are trying to tell me that all minorities are the same? why don't you guys (tajiks) find a common ground of your ideas first??? ...
I can not be responsible for what ganjubas told you. I can answer for myself. If you go back to previous posts of mine and see, i have been all the time for Uzbekistanies but not the only Uzbeks. I told the land belongs to all ppl who build the country. Was i wrong? you don't have right to speak to people like ''...YOU (TAJIKS)...'' in any case, think that you are here to moderate as well, not just to make problems.

Joe, can you give me ONE or TWO good solutions that will help imrove the situation of Tajiks in Uzbek region???
Did I say anything about probable solutions, or did i complaint specially about Tajik-Uzbek problems. The only thing I did-gave a link from Harvard University Release about the issue and emphesized that the link was just to analyse or read the observation of a third party.

As you don't know if I am Tajik or Uzbek, keep your ''...you (Tajiks)...why don't you do that'' kinda stuff in your mouth, think and then write. Look at yourself, how funny you are being here. Now, listen this is my last post here and I am no longer eager to read the replies.

Take care:)you are invited to party anyways:)calm, you, down.
Joe:(

PS. Hope you will not end me with BAN:LOOL:

[SmIlIk]

First, let me tell you smthng, sorry, previous one was sounded wrong coz the missed comma by me.

Being moderator you are just making the discussion more severe.

I can not be responsible for what ganjubas told you. I can answer for myself. If you go back to previous posts of mine and see, i have been all the time for Uzbekistanies but not the only Uzbeks. I told the land belongs to all ppl who build the country. Was i wrong? you don't have right to speak to people like ''...YOU (TAJIKS)...'' in any case, think that you are here to moderate as well, not just to make problems.


Did I say anything about probable solutions, or did i complaint specially about Tajik-Uzbek problems. The only thing I did-gave a link from Harvard University Release about the issue and emphesized that the link was just to analyse or read the observation of a third party.

As you don't know if I am Tajik or Uzbek, keep your ''...you (Tajiks)...why don't you do that'' kinda stuff in your mouth, think and then write. Look at yourself, how funny you are being here. Now, listen this is my last post here and I am no longer eager to read the replies.

Take care:)you are invited to party anyways:)calm, you, down.
Joe:(

PS. Hope you will not end me with BAN:LOOL:
Hafa bo'mengku, lekin bitta gapizgayam tushunmadim...Moderatorligimni nima aloqasi bor? yoki kimnidur bo'gizlab o'ldirib qo'ydimmi ban bilan? :)

[Bukhara]

This is just a test. I have been blocked from sending messages for a while and now the admin says there shouldn't be any problems.

[Bukhara]

Cool! The problem has been solved.

There were some wimps in the thread threatening Bukhara. I just don't wanna roll back what miserable creature it was, but I want him back too. We have to meet vis-a-vis.

It seems the course of the thread has been hijacked by some participants. Please do not bring up your funny personal problems in here and try to restrict yourselves with whatever this thread is dedicated for.

You have to admit that the human rights of Tajiks in Uzbekistan have been violated by Uzbek authorities during many decades and it's time to rehabilitate the damaged image of Uzbeks in eyes of Tajiks by returning their rights to them, by opening Tajik schools and faculties, by allowing them to register themselves as Tajik, by permitting Tajik (Persian) mass media to broadcast and circulate easily, to publish Tajik (Persian) books... If you wanna turn them into your loyal country fellows, please do that. Otherwise, a perfect time bomb is installed in Uzbekistan. If you ll do that there won't be any groanings again about Samarqand and Bukhara being so alien for an Uzbek-speaker. Hostility will vanish. Try to be human and think beyond your racial affinity. Try to built a strong Uzbekistani nation by recognizing the huge part of Tajiks in Uzbek history, literature, architecture, urbanization, cinema and everything else. Then you won't have to pretend maintaining hegemony in the region. You will get it very easily given the resources you got. But now Uzbekistan is a demonic country slipping fast into degradation and chaos and losing its importance for the region.

Change the lane.

Peace