Даже обедневшая Киргизия стала для узбеков манной небесной. Ферганские заметки

[Desperado]

Фабрисси ВИЕЛЬМИНИ, Нурлан АЛЬНИЯЗОВ
Ош - Алматы

Сегодня даже обедневшая Киргизия стала для узбеков манной небесной. Этот факт можно констатировать глядя на Ферганскую границу между двумя государствами. Например, город Карасу, 30 км. oт Оша, стал в своем роде "Берлином" Ферганы. На протяжении 90 годов "прозрачная" граница превратилась в реальную, и в итоге, разделила города на две части. По сторону Ташкента экономическая жизнь остается полностью под контродем аппаратчиков, на стороне, Бишкека налаживаются нормальные рыночные отношения. Не хочется судить что лучше, просто становится ясно то, что такие разные порядки не могут вместе сосуществовать на таком узком простанстве, где живут люди, связанные одной историей, а также этническими и семейными отношениями (узбеки живут на обоих сторонах границы). Тем более в этом огромном регионе, Ташкент не только вынуждает выращивать крестьянинов хлопок, но и фиксирует его ценуу на уровне в 10 раз меньше, чем на киргизских рынках. Это естественно и не удивительно, что каждый день из Узбукистана в Киргизию нелегально перебираются люди, в надежде заработать хоть что-то в качстве "гастарбайтеров", челноков, проституток и т.д.


http://centrasia.ru/news.php4?st=1098959640

[Mubina]

Неоспоримый факт,
лично я сама стала свидетельницей ужасного события,
оказывается на границе Мархамата (Уз) и Чекабад (КР) открылся "Рынок торговли людьми", а точнее этот рынок называется "Мадикор Бозор", я была в шоке, столько людей из Узбекистана (в основном женщины и незамужние девушки) приходят сюда и предлагают сделать любую работу за ничтожные деньги, их услуги стоят примерно $ 1 на один день. O'shattagi odamlarni qo'rsangiz ichiz o'gridi ularga, men bu narsa eslasam hozirgacha uragim jiz etib ketadi.
Если бы Узбекистан смягчил бы свою политику, хотя по отношению к своим жителям, может всего этого не было бы. И ещё люди не крали хлопок у своего же государство и не продовали бы соседнему Кыргызстану. (В Кыргызстане хлопок стоит дороже в 4 раза). А насчет мелких торговцев, я уже писала в каком-то топике, у них условия не лучше. Так, что остается надеяться только на правительство Узбекистана, это единственный институт который в силах изменить эту ситуацию.

Хурмат ила,

Мубин

[Desperado]

hozirgi xalqning ahvoli hammaga yahshi ma'lum. juda ko'pchilikning sharoitlari og'ir. buning uchun kim aybdor? nega tegishli rahbarlar bu haqda qayg'urmaydi?

mening shahsiy fikrim, O'zbekistondagi og'ir ahvol hale-veri o'zgarmaydi, bu aniq...

[Mubina]

Afsuslar bo'lsingki, yakin on iylda bu o'zgarmasligi aniq.

Buni o'zgartirish bizni qo'limizda emas.

[Desperado]

Неоспоримый факт,
лично я сама стала свидетельницей ужасного события,
оказывается на границе Мархамата (Уз) и Чекабад (КР) открылся "Рынок торговли людьми", а точнее этот рынок называется "Мадикор Бозор", я была в шоке, столько людей из Узбекистана (в основном женщины и незамужние девушки) приходят сюда и предлагают сделать любую работу за ничтожные деньги, их услуги стоят примерно $ 1 на один день. O'shattagi odamlarni qo'rsangiz ichiz o'gridi ularga, men bu narsa eslasam hozirgacha uragim jiz etib ketadi.
Если бы Узбекистан смягчил бы свою политику, хотя по отношению к своим жителям, может всего этого не было бы. И ещё люди не крали хлопок у своего же государство и не продовали бы соседнему Кыргызстану. (В Кыргызстане хлопок стоит дороже в 4 раза). А насчет мелких торговцев, я уже писала в каком-то топике, у них условия не лучше. Так, что остается надеяться только на правительство Узбекистана, это единственный институт который в силах изменить эту ситуацию.

Хурмат ила,

Мубин


Man KG dagi sharoitlar UZ dan ko'ra yahshiroqligi haqida eshitmagan edim to'g'risi. Kim biladi, balki urush ko'rgan Tojikiston ham biznikidan durustroqdir. Judayam achinarli.

[Mubina]

Man KG dagi sharoitlar UZ dan ko'ra yahshiroqligi haqida eshitmagan edim to'g'risi. Kim biladi, balki urush ko'rgan Tojikiston ham biznikidan durustroqdir. Judayam achinarli.

KG qay darajada bu sharoit yomon yoki yaxshiligini men bu erda turib aytolmiman, chetdan bu narsa yaxhsirok bilinadi, lekin bizda rivojlanish, pul topish va hkzl. keng yol qoyib berilgan. Rivojlanish faqat davlatga bog'lik emas bizda.

yana kim bilsin, bu faqat meni fikrim,

wassalama,

Mubina

[Mederbek]

:( chto pravda to pravda

[Delf]

Так, что остается надеяться только на правительство Узбекистана, это единственный институт который в силах изменить эту ситуацию.

Хурмат ила,

Мубин

Ето как раз таки тот институт который создал данную ситуацию.


Delf.

[Alouddin]

da, Delf, i naverno ono tak je v silah izmenit/uluchshit to chto ono porodilo... sad... but apparently it's not gonna get better given that the pro-governmental parliament now has it's upper house now. altho, KG has rejected that idea and will no longer have the People's Representatives Assembly (the upper house)...

yana kim biladi.

adios

[referee]

мне стыдно за нас- даже когда нас унижают и обижают- мы что и делаем как НАДЕЕМСЯ что правительство подобреет! ПОРА очнуться и если мы свой народ не уважаем то себя же мы должни уважать! Нечего надеется и ждать, время действовать - а как это вопрос индивидуальной, и коллективной, совести и самоуважения!
Если ето правительство не уважает народ его надо гнать пинками, в противном случае не только соседи нас за лохов считать будет, но и нам друг другу в глаза стыдно будет смотреть! ВОТ ТАК!:evil:

[Samurai]

V KG jizn, obichnogo naroda, takaya je kak i v UZ. Tam sinok i zyat' ihnego prezidenta tvoryat vsyo chto hotyat. Bolee togo u sinka tselaya banda nahlebnikov kotorie mogut sebe pozvolit zahvativat' tselie kompanii. Protiv naglogo zyat'ka tolko sinok mojet chto to zkazat'. Hotya opredelyonno v tak nazivaemoy "svobode slova" oni dadut foru lyubomu UZovskomu mass media izdaniyu.
A v celom vse Sredneaziatskie strani stradayut odnoy boleznyu - rodstveniki silnih mira sego. V etoy svyazi naprashivaetsya anekdot:
- Pochemu dochka prezidenta Kazahstana razvelas' s sinkom Kirgizstana?
- Potomu chto tretego zyatya economica KZ ne viderjit...

[general]

I have not visited forum for ages and but today I did. And came accross with this topic, which is the most actual and interesting of all combined together, in my view.

I live near the Kyrgyz border and have many times personally witnessed uzbek mardikors crossing border and often under the fear that uzbek ment might catch them. It is truly sad, and this is what I call that hurts my pride, that makes me think of reasons to often face reasons which contradict to each other. Here are my thoughts and your comment/criticism is very much appreciated.


You have very well described the situation and I do not need to add anything.

Who do you think is to blame? It is not government, it is us, people. Well let me put it that way: what is government? It is again people. Who is hokim, who are his assistants, who is rais, ment, prokuror, sudya and etc? And these are the people who are making other people's, in this case, dehqons' lives miserable. Dehqon knows it but does nothing to improve - it is another story.

For example, every rais should pay tax to prokuror, like 5K a year and then do whatever he likes as long as the plan is fulfilled. If hokim's dog bore, it is again rais who voluntarily brings high quality 'pedigrees' imported straight from Europe, small pack of which costs as much as 50kg of flour. If hokim wants to open a new haykal or new something, it is again rais who should buy all stroymaterials from top quality company who is run by hokim's son or brother.

What I mean is that everything is so complicated that Government, if many of you mean Karimov by this term, can do nothing about even if he really wishes.

Cotton purchases by government. Government cotton purchase scheme was my topic to write a course work at the uni a few years back. It is very much complicated scheme but the price government is paying is fair and in compliance with Uzbekistan's agreements with IMF and other international bodies. In fact, the price now farmer is getting for his cotton is the world market price at the time a purchase contract signed minus transportation costs minus processing costs minus administrative costs. For instance, my uncle is a farmer and he gets the right amount. But he gets a bit late, like 2-3 months later than expected and it will not be a much needed cash.

But it is again local authorities who do not pay money, local bank managers who transfer money for their dirty tircks or local prokuror requires farmers to pay for some charity that no one benefits from.

Maybe it is the system to blame. But who built the system?

Now let me ask you a question: If you are in uzb and have no chance to escape from uzb, what career do wish to follow? Why do think entrance points for yuridichesky and other institutes which prepare 'highly qulaified' cadres for government control over the economy have become sky high recently?

They are quite rhetoric, are not they? It is again us, people, it is our greed or desire to have a better life leads us to think like many do think. If, a dear reader, you were in prokuror's shoes, I am 99percent sure, you would act in exactly the same manner as a real prokuror does now.

So I am now contradicting to myself. I started with my pride which is being hurt by this fact and finished with the conclusion that it is normal/natural.

What do you think of that?

[Maroon]

I have not visited forum for ages and but today I did. And came accross with this topic, which is the most actual and interesting of all combined together, in my view.

I live near the Kyrgyz border and have many times personally witnessed uzbek mardikors crossing border and often under the fear that uzbek ment might catch them. It is truly sad, and this is what I call that hurts my pride, that makes me think of reasons to often face reasons which contradict to each other. Here are my thoughts and your comment/criticism is very much appreciated.


You have very well described the situation and I do not need to add anything.

Who do you think is to blame? It is not government, it is us, people. Well let me put it that way: what is government? It is again people. Who is hokim, who are his assistants, who is rais, ment, prokuror, sudya and etc? And these are the people who are making other people's, in this case, dehqons' lives miserable. Dehqon knows it but does nothing to improve - it is another story.

For example, every rais should pay tax to prokuror, like 5K a year and then do whatever he likes as long as the plan is fulfilled. If hokim's dog bore, it is again rais who voluntarily brings high quality 'pedigrees' imported straight from Europe, small pack of which costs as much as 50kg of flour. If hokim wants to open a new haykal or new something, it is again rais who should buy all stroymaterials from top quality company who is run by hokim's son or brother.

What I mean is that everything is so complicated that Government, if many of you mean Karimov by this term, can do nothing about even if he really wishes.

Cotton purchases by government. Government cotton purchase scheme was my topic to write a course work at the uni a few years back. It is very much complicated scheme but the price government is paying is fair and in compliance with Uzbekistan's agreements with IMF and other international bodies. In fact, the price now farmer is getting for his cotton is the world market price at the time a purchase contract signed minus transportation costs minus processing costs minus administrative costs. For instance, my uncle is a farmer and he gets the right amount. But he gets a bit late, like 2-3 months later than expected and it will not be a much needed cash.

But it is again local authorities who do not pay money, local bank managers who transfer money for their dirty tircks or local prokuror requires farmers to pay for some charity that no one benefits from.

Maybe it is the system to blame. But who built the system?

Now let me ask you a question: If you are in uzb and have no chance to escape from uzb, what career do wish to follow? Why do think entrance points for yuridichesky and other institutes which prepare 'highly qulaified' cadres for government control over the economy have become sky high recently?

They are quite rhetoric, are not they? It is again us, people, it is our greed or desire to have a better life leads us to think like many do think. If, a dear reader, you were in prokuror's shoes, I am 99percent sure, you would act in exactly the same manner as a real prokuror does now.

So I am now contradicting to myself. I started with my pride which is being hurt by this fact and finished with the conclusion that it is normal/natural.

What do you think of that?


Molodec! I must agree with you. ;)

Cheers.

[Buba]

You made very good points.