Uzbeks and non-Uzbeks look here

[Martingale]

My question is: Should Uzbekistan follow Western way of culture or Oriental one?

I voted for oriental, because even we have to develop, need to do reforms in many things, but we should not change our culture. Western people should accept us as who we are. Our culture develops by itself, but we also have to preserve those values.
History says that there were "Renaissence" periods in western culture, but none existed in Oriental culture. As the word "Renaissence" means "waking up", Oriental culture has never slept to wake up. Moreover, to this point of their existence all Central Asian countries have lived in and benefited from oriental culture. So in order to achieve western culture,which is more "liberal", it would be a great mistake to give up the old one.

[Guardian]

The question is not too right. You can't ask this issue for whole Uzbekistan, but can express them by individuals. Everyone has his/her own taste and brain. This is not genuine question or issue to be discussed...IMHO
My answer is yes/no. Depends on pro/cons...

[lavelaso]

My question is: Should Uzbekistan follow Western way of culture or Oriental one?

I voted for oriental, because even we have to develop, need to do reforms in many things, but we should not change our culture. Western people should accept us as who we are. Our culture develops by itself, but we also have to preserve those values.
History says that there were "Renaissence" periods in western culture, but none existed in Oriental culture. As the word "Renaissence" means "waking up", Oriental culture has never slept to wake up. Moreover, to this point of their existence all Central Asian countries have lived in and benefited from oriental culture. So in order to achieve western culture,which is more "liberal", it would be a great mistake to give up the old one.


The main point is OUR CULTURE IS NOT DEVELOPING AT ALL

[Martingale]

The question is not too right. You can't ask this issue for whole Uzbekistan, but can express them by individuals. Everyone has his/her own taste and brain. This is not genuine question or issue to be discussed...IMHO
My answer is yes/no. Depends on pro/cons...

Mr Joe,

Thank you for your attention. FYI all the polls here are intended to know the opinions of Forum users. I want to know the opinion of this board, not the geniune answer. Because I know what the geniune answer is. The idea of the poll is clear cut, if there are some mistakes in grammar or style, let me know. I will edit my post. Thanks.

[PainKiller]

Kul'tura takaya vesh', chto ne mozhet bit' kontroliruema. Ot togo chto mnogo-mnogo chuvakov syadyat i reshat chto nuzhno nashu uzbekskuyu kul'turu povernut' na Zapadnoe Ruslo, ili naoborot na Vostochnoe, Kul'tura ne stanet bolee vostochnoy. Ona takaya kakaya est'. Naoborot, nuzhno dat' ey svobodu. Prekratit' etu vonyuchuyu cenzuru i prochee. Koroche, Kul'tura takaya vesh' kuda vmeshatel'stva ne stoit. Nuzhno dat' molodomu, novomu chto poyavlyaetsya dat' svobodu, a to krome etoy deshevoy popsi u nas nifiga ne budet. :?
PS.

[Mona Lisa]

My question is: Should Uzbekistan follow Western way of culture or Oriental one?

You should include another poll option: Neither

Basicly culture on its own is dynamic. Therefore it is nearly impossible to guide it to particular direction or stop economical, social, environmental or political factors from influencing it.

[Janibek & Kerei]

А где вариант "Комбинация обоих" ?

[Martingale]

You should include another poll option: Neither

Basicly culture on its own is dynamic. Therefore it is nearly impossible to guide it to particular direction or stop economical, social, environmental or political factors from influencing it.

ML, how can I include neither...do you mean we are not categorized to any of those two? :rolleyes: Or you mean Uzbekistan's culture is a unique one, which cannot be called neither oriental nor western? As nearly all historical sources distinguish only these two cultures and as our culture is less or more near to them, I added only western and oriental.
Again people, don't confuse yourself with the concepts like dynamic blah blah blah. Why should you guide culture? I stated that culture develops by itself, but based on certain values and norms. All the factors you mentioned plus religion influence these values and of course culture. For example, democracy as a tool of politics can change the culture dramatically. But there are some other things of western culture that confront our values. We simply can't accept them.
Actually, your post is the answer to different question: Which way should we guide our culture? Oriental or Western?
If I misunderstood you Miss Mona Lisa, please clearify what you meant. Good Luck!

[Martingale]

А где вариант "Комбинация обоих" ?

Could you please explain what does it mean?
I have never heard about combination of two cultures as a new culture. :rolleyes:
One culture affects aonther, that's for sure. But can you give an example of any country who had a combination of culture? Mybe Kazakstan. Nope, I don't think so. You may have gained lots of things from Europe, but still you can be an oriental culture with western characteristics, but not combination. IMHO

P.S. If Kazakstan plays in Champions League it does not mean that you are a western country.;):D

[Mona Lisa]

Laziz,
Seriously you need to do something with your English :)
1st it was 'smart' now there is a 'follow'
If you want to know what kind of culture you would like to categorize then use verbs either 'to belong' or 'to fit' in your question.

[Royal]

My question is: Should Uzbekistan follow Western way of culture or Oriental one?

Nima uchun ? Ozimizni madaniyatimizga bir narsa boptimi ?
Yoki yana osha eski gapmi - Ruscha bilamasa madaniy hisoblanmaganday a?

Laziz_uwed siz birinchi bolib "Last Samuray" filmini bir olib korin va ohirida Yapon imperatorini gapini yahshilab tushunishga harakat qilin, shunda bu savolingizga javob boladi.

[Martingale]

Laziz,
Seriously you need to do something with your English :)
1st it was 'smart' now there is a 'follow'
If you want to know what kind of culture you would like to categorize then use verbs either 'to belong' or 'to fit' in your question.

Mona Lisa,
still learning it. About smart, I am not satisfied with any definitions given to me, but it's another story.

Bumasam tarjima qilaman uzbechaga: Should Uzbekistan follow Western way of culture or Oriental one?-Uzbekiston Garb madaniyati yulidan borishi kerakmi yo Sharq?(bundan boshqacharoq bulishi mumkin, lekin asosiy mano shu) So your answer was:... "Therefore it is nearly impossible to guide it to particular direction or stop economical, social, environmental or political factors from influencing it" - "Shuning uchun uni malum bir yunalishga boshlash yoki iqtisodiy, ijtimoiy, tabiiy va siyosiy factorlarning unga bulgan tasirini tuhtatish deyarli mumkin emas. "
Endi savolni boshqacha tuzaman: Uzbekistonni garb madaniyati yuliga boshlashimiz kerakmi yo Sharq? Manimcha sizni javobiz bu savolga kuproq javob buladi. Lekin bir tarafdan sizni bu javobiz ikkala savolga ham notugri buladi. Chunki man aytib utdim: "I stated that culture develops by itself, but based on certain values and norms. All the factors you mentioned plus religion influence these values and of course culture."
Main idea: biz madaniyatni boshqarmaymiz, u uzidan uzi rivojlanaveradi, lekin biz unga tasir kursatamiz sanab utilgan factorlar orqali. Gapim rostligiga 1000000 ta misol keltirolaman:D

Any other complaints?

[Martingale]

Nima uchun ? Ozimizni madaniyatimizga bir narsa boptimi ?
Yoki yana osha eski gapmi - Ruscha bilamasa madaniy hisoblanmaganday a?

Laziz_uwed siz birinchi bolib "Last Samuray" filmini bir olib korin va ohirida Yapon imperatorini gapini yahshilab tushunishga harakat qilin, shunda bu savolingizga javob boladi.

EEEEEEE Royal aka,
Kurganman usha kinoni, imperator rolini uynagan bola yoqmagan. :D
Usha aytgan gapi lekin hozir esimda yuq, siz bilsez aytvoring. Keyin javob topishga harkat qilardim.;)

[Janibek & Kerei]

Could you please explain what does it mean?
I have never heard about combination of two cultures as a new culture. :rolleyes:
One culture affects aonther, that's for sure. But can you give an example of any country who had a combination of culture? Mybe Kazakstan.
Take Turkey for instance.

They are pretty good at combining their traditions and religion with Western culture.


P.S. If Kazakstan plays in Champions League it does not mean that you are a western country.;):D
That's silly.

Nobody says we are a western country.

We are Central Asians. We have our own culture. :)

[Martingale]

Take Turkey for instance.

They are pretty good at combining their traditions and religion with Western culture.


Man, Turkey is a great example of oriental culture. It has been considered oriental since its existence. Though turkish culture has gained some things from western culture, but still even Europeans call it oriental, but never a combination of western and oriental cultures.


That's silly.

Nobody says we are a western country.

We are Central Asians. We have our own culture. :)

Take it easy,
I know that you are not a western country. It was a joke.;)

[Janibek & Kerei]

Man, Turkey is a great example of oriental culture. It has been considered oriental since its existence. Though turkish culture has gained some things from western culture, but still even Europeans call it oriental, but never a combination of western and oriental cultures.
Well, "Oriental" is a word with pretty wide meaning. What do you mean by oriental ? Tokio & Beijing are Oriental, India & Bangkok are Oriental, Mekka and Cairo are Oriental.

What are we talking about here ?


About Turkey... You can't call Turkey a classical Islamic country. Since Ataturk the religion was seprated from the state and people, especially in the big cities, are more tolerant to the Western influences.

[Janibek & Kerei]

IMHO

I can live in the cities, drive German "shaitan-arba", watch American movies, listen to Italian music, but that won't be a problem for my Kazak identity.

It's stupid to limit yourself, seperate yourself from the Western world. But also you should be taught from your early ages your language and culture. Western influence consist of good and also nation-destructive moments. So you should be able to get what you need and not get your language and culture destroyed.

I think Japan does a pretty good job with accepting Western technology and at the same moment preserving their language and culture.

[Martingale]

Janibek&Kerei,

Give me your understanding of culture? What is the similarities/differences of western and oriental cultures? You are talking about Japan with the high development of technology,economy and society, but Japan is still oriental culture. Don't confuse culture with the development.

I am offline, wait for your competent answers. Thanks.

[JoJ]

Janibek&Kerei,

Give me your understanding of culture? What is the similarities/differences of western and oriental cultures? You are talking about Japan with the high development of technology,economy and society, but Japan is still oriental culture. Don't confuse culture with the development.

I am offline, wait for your competent answers. Thanks.

I agree with J&K, oriental has a wide meaning. for example, as it was oversaid Japan belongs to oriental culture as well as Iran, Korea, Indozezia, India or any arabic countries. But they culture in these countreis is different from each other. so, sorry but clarify your question pls

also, what d'u think whats gonna be changed in the culture if it takes oriental or western direction?

[Pax]

You should include another poll option: Neither

Basicly culture on its own is dynamic. Therefore it is nearly impossible to guide it to particular direction or stop economical, social, environmental or political factors from influencing it.
Theoretically speaking you are right: culture cannot be guided. Nevertheless, culture in so many coutries is guided and changed (though the end result might appear somewhat different) in so many places in the world.

For example, by XX c. Turkey had a traditional Oriental culture (and for the greater part still remains). But the Turkish founding father (Turkish Lenin if you like) Ataturk decided that Turkey should separate from its imperia legacy belong in the future not to the West. He changed the alphabet - so the for next generations the bulk of cultural heritage is not accessible. Language reforms followed: they decided to get rid of all Arabic and Persian loan words and substitute them with newly created words based on Turkic roots. Many of these creations were long and funny "chok-oturgachli-goetuergech" ("multi-seat-carrier") meaning bus :lol: "chok-oturgachli-goetuergech avradi" :lool: (bus woman) meaning conductor (person collecting way-fare).

Though there was resistance on the part of conservatives, Ataturk was the general and knew how to implement his plans. Now, many of the reforms are adopted even by concervatives.

You know, to this culture issue the "thesis + antithesis = synthesis" principle is applicable. An initiative for change was made, this was met by resistance, a more plausbile solution for not so radical change was found.

[Pax]

IMHO

I can live in the cities, drive German "shaitan-arba", watch American movies, listen to Italian music, but that won't be a problem for my Kazak identity.

It's stupid to limit yourself, seperate yourself from the Western world. But also you should be taught from your early ages your language and culture. Western influence consist of good and also nation-destructive moments. So you should be able to get what you need and not get your language and culture destroyed.

100% agree with you :thumbs:

I think Japan does a pretty good job with accepting Western technology and at the same moment preserving their language and culture.
They have adopted Western technology in the past, now they have taken the initiative and develop their own technology.

[lavelaso]

I agree with J&K, oriental has a wide meaning. for example, as it was oversaid Japan belongs to oriental culture as well as Iran, Korea, Indozezia, India or any arabic countries. But they culture in these countreis is different from each other. so, sorry but clarify your question pls

also, what d'u think whats gonna be changed in the culture if it takes oriental or western direction?

ira is not oriental its middle eastern. japan nothing has to do with islam.

[Pax]

ira is not oriental its middle eastern. japan nothing has to do with islam.
As it occurs tome: this as actullay WHY they argue that Oriental is too broad a concept.
Middle East is also "Orient" in the eyes of the West.

[JoJ]

japan nothing has to do with islam.

are we talking about islam here?

[satik]

It is possibly sensible to state, that the matter looks different from different angles.

If we consider culture, the answer is negative as: We also possess quiet a huge heritage of different cultural staff.
Another notion needs emphasis, thus to follow does not mean to imitate blindly.

If we mean science, technology, social infrastructure and democratic institutions, why not?

There are always things, we can excerpt benefits from for ourselves.

[stanford]

Western culture is not necesarily "superior" to Eastern culture.I never said anything like that before but I want to point out that Uzbs here in the US and in Uzbekistan are doing horrible things under the thoughts and behaviors created from Western culture.I am not saying about not being a religious it's about cultural values and thoughts whatever cultural which shows where we belong and how we are.But some say eastern culture is based upon on religion or mixed with.Following western culture in Uzb:
The Western way of lifestyle or culture a very complicated one, if western countries are developed and successful it doesn't mean that applying it would promise swift and abundant economic or social advancement or nations success. Many people view this as a "quick fix" or easy to bring their nation up to the same level as Europe and America. But they don't realize that with western culture comes a whole lot of unwanted baggage-- especially certain cultural aspects that many of us do not want.
We have to follow "modernization" not "westernization".

[4twelve]

Hi there ,
Ok...I dont know how to start but ....very shortly my opinion is '' Citizens are draw their countries borders .So everything depens on the Uzbek citizens...oriental or western both of them is looks like very different but i m sure they are different leafs of the same rose...Why ppls call ""Orientalist" to others ? probably the reason is follows his treadation ..if this is orientalism ..Yes i am ....there is opp. answer for being western...so i tyhink combination of them become perfect mixture.....Isnt it?

[slithy]

Western culture is not necesarily "superior" to Eastern culture....they don't realize that with western culture comes a whole lot of unwanted baggage-- especially certain cultural aspects that many of us do not want. We have to follow "modernization" not "westernization".[/QUOTE]

I think this west-versus-east debate is a false one. The real issue here is democracy versus dictatorship. Do you think the South Koreans or Japanese give a damn for the question whether they should become more oriental or more western?
Democracy is not just a "tool" or a "recipe" for progress, it's based on the ethical principle that the individual should decide for him or herself, the only limitation, ideally, being in the other individuals' freedom (Liberté). Therefore, political legitimacy is borrowed from the individual's freedom, so truly democratic institutions (not just show-piece parlaments) are needed to guarantee this. Democratic rights (free press, free political association, etc.) are of course necessary to keep the institutions democratic, but the main point is the reverse: democratic institutions are there in order to preserve individual rights. If you are not convinced that you want to decide how to live for yourself, get rid of parlaments, they're very expensive things, and leave your dictator decide for you.
I think the relationship religion-state is a major underlying issue here (forgive me if I'm wrong), and there's no way round this: democracy means that the individual rules, and this means religion should be kept a strictly private business (and the same goes for sexual orientation, by the way). If you follow a spiritual leader, it should be your own decision.
And don't forget, that in the idea of individual freedom there's the implicit idea of equality (Egalité), so no members of the national community must be treated as having naturally less freedom than others. This rules out discriminating women, for example, or preventing certain individuals from becoming too powerful - no monopolies.
So, when you worry about aspects of the west which challenge your values, I think you should be specific and state clearly which values you mean. Because apart from democracy (in varying degrees), there is little in common between, say, Finland, the US, Spain or Japan (which is, from a political and social point of view, fully western, by the way).