Islam vs. Secularism

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Islam vs. Secularism

Secularism is defined in the Webster dictionary as: "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

There is no doubt that secularism contradicts Islam in every aspect. They are two different paths that never meet; choosing one means rejecting the other. Hence, whoever chooses Islam has to reject secularism. In the following, we go in the details of explaining why.

1. - First, secularism makes lawful what Allah has made unlawful.

The Rule of Allah (Shari`ah) is compulsory and has basic laws and regulations that cannot be changed. Some of these laws are concerned with the acts of worship, the relations between men and women, etc.

What is the position with regard to these laws?

Secularism makes adultery lawful if the male and the female are consenting adults.

As for Riba (interest on money), it is the basis of all financial transactions in secular economies. On the contrary, Allah says (s.2 A. 278):

"O you who believe, fear Allah and leave what comes from Riba if you are believers. If you do not do so, then wait for a war from Allah and His Messenger."

As for alcohol, all secular systems allow the consumption of alcohol and make selling it a lawful business.

2.- Second, secularism is clear unbelief (Kufr).

Secularism is based on separating religion from all the affairs of this life and hence, it rules by law and regulations other than Allah's laws. Hence, secularism rejects Allah's rules with no exception and prefers regulations other than Allah's and His Messenger's. In fact, many secularists claim that Allah's laws might have been suitable for the time they were revealed but are now outdated.

As a result, most of the laws governing the daily affairs of life in the countries ruled by secular systems contradict Islam. Allah says (S.5 A.50):

"Do they seek a judgment of Ignorance? But, who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah?"

Ibn Katheer said in the Tafseer of this verse that Allah is denouncing those who reject His ruling and accept other rulings that are not based on the Shari`ah of Allah. Whoever does so is indeed a non-believer. Indeed, belief in Allah can never go with the acceptance of other than His rulings in one's heart. Allah says (S.5 A.44):

"If any do fail to judge by what Allah has revealed, they are non-believers."

From the above, the status of secularism and its relation to Islam are clear. But the ignorance about the Islamic truth is still dominating the Muslim's mind. Most secular systems repeat slogans like "no religion in politics and no politics in religion" or "religion is for Allah, and the state is for the people." Such sayings portray their view of Islam as a religion to be practiced in the mosque only, and that it should not be allowed to rule life outside the mosque. Furthermore, they try to deceive people with democratic slogans like "personal freedom" and "people governing people." That means that people come first and no place is made for the ruling of Allah.

This is why secularism is clear Kufr, this is why secular systems have no legality and authority and should be rejected by Muslims.

[Pax]

(1)
First of all I think Islam and secularism are different categories.
Islam is a religion, secularism is a system of government.
What you can compare secularism to is islamism (a system of government based on Islamic canonic law [sharia]) which is a different story.

(2)
The defenition "Secularism is 'A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship'" is simply not true.
Secularism is the separation of religious affairs from the government system, but it does not mean (as some may think) reject religion absolutely.

[Joha]

THE REAPER

Could you please change your SIGNATURE.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Joha

[Akhee-Abdullah]

(1)
First of all I think Islam and secularism are different categories.
Islam is a religion, secularism is a system of government.
What you can compare secularism to is islamism (a system of government based on Islamic canonic law [sharia]) which is a different story.

(2)
The defenition "Secularism is 'A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship'" is simply not true.
Secularism is the separation of religious affairs from the government system, but it does not mean (as some may think) reject religion absolutely.

That's what you think!! Islam is a way of life...a religion that is practiced when you are in the Masjid, when you are fighting, when you are eating, when you are runing the government and etc. It is a complete system of life, and whole different civilization than that of of democracy, not just a "religion" as you called it.

[petkaface!]

blame everything on the arab government because , Like I was watching DBZ

[The Reaper]

THE REAPER

Could you please change your SIGNATURE.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Joha

How about NO!!

TR

[democrat]

let me ask you guys, if Islamic system is good how come almost all muslim countries are so poor and peope are not modern as others
thanks

[The Reaper]

let me ask you guys, if Islamic system is good how come almost all muslim countries are so poor and peope are not modern as others
thanks

EXACTLY!!!

TR

[SmIlIk]

let me ask you guys, if Islamic system is good how come almost all muslim countries are so poor and peope are not modern as others
thanks


That's probably they have presidents like ours as their governor :) Yet not all arab nations/countires are as you refering, poor and not as much modern as others?!!!...I find it as a very poor arguement.

[petkaface!]

let me ask you guys, if Islamic system is good how come almost all muslim countries are so poor and peope are not modern as others
thanksI AGREE with this little man

[Akhee-Abdullah]

The Causes of Muslim Decline...

(The following ideas are taken from the Leading Muslim Scholars: Siddiqui,Qaradawi,Chapra, and etc.)

"Apart from the Islamic world where fundamentalist political tendencies are quite marked, the global political scene is dominated by rhetoric and values that are primarily consumption oriented and that stress personal self gratification as the primary source of political action" (Zbigniew Brzezinski national security adviser to President Carter and member of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board,-"Out of Control: Global turmoil on the eve of the 21st century"-New York, Touchstone books, 1995)

In the name of the One God, Allah-

To proceed:

There is a tendency among the anti-Islamic and secular forces to think that the cause of the decline of the Muslim world is Islam itself. However, there are open minded western scholars who think that Islam played a positive role in the development of Muslim societies, like Toynbee, Hitti, Hodgson, Baeck, and Lewis.

(Refer to, "History of Arabs"-Philips Hitti,1958: "The Venture of Islam: Conscience and History in a world civilization"-Hodgson,Marshall,University of Chicago Press,1977:"The Middle East:2000 years of History from the Rise of Christianity to the Present Day"-Lewis, Bernard, London, 1995)


I would count the following points for the causes of Muslim decline:

1) The Wrong turn-The End of al-Khalifah al-Rasheedah-the ideal political system enjoined by Islaam.Khilafah-the form of Government the the head of the state (President) is elected by the people and is accountable to them. His primary responsiblity is to establish a just order and to cater to the well being of the people by managing the affairs of the state with the teachings of Sharia (the constitution-a dynamic and adjstable collection of the laws rooted in a few basic Islaamic teachings namely; Peace, Justice and Equality) and the decisions of Shura (parliament-an elected autonomous body whose existence is imperative (Quran, 3:159, and 42:38). In this state muslims and non-muslims have equal rights. (Refer to:"The Middle East:2000 years of History from the Rise of Christiantiy to the Present Day"-Lewis, Bernard, London, 1995, pp72-73: and Mawdudi-"The Early Muslim Governmet").

The head of the state and parliament could be removed or renewed during the elections. The procedure of the election was left open by the Parliament thus could be adjusted and changed based on the situation. The ealry caliphs were thus elected and that makes Islaam and Democracy very similar. With the Establishment of Umayyad dynasty Islaamic teachings were violated i.e. pre-Islaamic teachings resurfaced and Islamic teachings with respect to statecraft were no longer reflected in the political institutions of the Muslim world. Umar Ibn Abdul-Aziz (d.720), eith among the twelve rulers of the Umayyad dynasty, tried officially to undo the illegitimacy, the heritage of the Kingdom from the father by the son, daughter or relative, but he was not successful. Those who did not want the democratic principles of Islaam to be established poisoned him after two-and-half years he came to the power. In general this was the fate of the majority of reformers. Since the title of Caliph carried a great deal of respect and charisma, the rulers of a number of dynasties, for example Ottomans, found it politically advantageous to refer to themselves as Caliphs.

That’s why Hodgson is right in saying that the “civilization of Islam as it has existed is far from the Clear expression of Islamic faith”("The Venture of Islam:Conscience and Histroy in a world civilization"-Hodgson,Marshall,University of Chicago Press,1977 Vol-I p-71). I am not trying to say that the continuation of the institutions of khalifah and shura would have been a panacea and eliminated all conflicts and problems. It would not. However, accountability of political authority in front of the citizens combined with the freedom of the people to criticize government policies would have led to more effective government, one that tried to ensure the prevalence of justice, law and order, and the effective use of available resources for all-round economic development. In spite of secularism, democratic governments in Western countries have done a great deal to promote justice, development and general well-being. This because the greater the accountability and freedom of expression, the higher the probability that the political authority will fulfill its obligations towards people. Free discussion of problems enables their correct diagnosis, and accountability motivates the Government to adopt effective remedies for solving them before it is too late.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

2)The loss of control over public finances-The rulers committed unforgivably crime by using state resources indiscriminately for financing military campaigns, leading a life of luxury and extravagance, and supporting a large retinue of unproductive hangesrs-on and sychphants. (Refer to: Hitti p 302-304, and al-Tabari) Some assholes used to own hundreds of wives some of whom they had slept only once in their life times. During Sultan Ahmed-I ‘ s time an average soldier was paid 3,407.8 silver coins per year. And he had an army of 91,202. (Bernard Lewis, “Ottoman observers of Ottoman decline”). Basically very poor fiscal policy. A large number of hectares of public or private land were granted to elites. Lay people were exhausted with various types of unjust taxes.

3) Debasing the currency-Fiscal imbalances led to the debasing of currency Fraudulent practices in the issue of coins, I mean the ratio of gold, copper, and silver dropped dramatically thus people lost trust in the money. These events worked for the benefit of some Muslim economists, many books were produced on monetary policy and theory. (Baeck, Lous , “Mediterranean tradition in economic thought”, London, 1994 p.114)

4) Corruption and Sale of Political Positions-For a long time the civil and military administration of the Ottoman Caliphate was considered to be the most efficient in Europe (Saunders, John “Muslim world on the eve of Europe’s expansion”, Prentice Hall 1966). The Grand Wazir, Chief Minister, was appointed for his competence. However, efficiency began to deteriorate in the 16th century when the sultans started to advance their personal favorites to this rank. This concerns not only Ottoman Empire but also the whole Muslim world at that time.

5) Economic and Political decline-“In the Middle ages the commerce of the Muslim world was in every way ahead of that in Europe-richer, larger, better organized, with more commodities to sell and more money to buy, and a vastly more sophisticated network of trading relations.”(Refer to afore mentioned book by Lewis, Bernard p. 177) By the 18th century this position was reversed. Over-indulgence in military campaigns and ostentatious living on the part of the political elite, along with an over-extended and corrupt bureaucracy, left meager resources for education, infrastructure construction, health care and general well being. The rate of literacy among the Turkish masses was only about 2% in 1868. In 1850, there was hardly a single railroad track in the Ottoman Caliphate. The construction of railroads in 1870’s was only 180 km’s, this was nothing compared to the UK 32,623 km’s and the USA 401,977 km’s.


6) The Stagnation of Fiqh-Islamic Jurisprudence. The conflict that had simmered between scholars (religious) and the rulers after the introduction of political illegitimacy and the violation of a number of principles of Islamic Jurisprudence by the rulers. This reduced the possibility of a friendly and constructive dialogue between the two. This deprived the Muslim world of political reform. If that did not happen there would have been many political reforms. The rise of Mutazilism aroused suspicion among the ulema about falsafah and thus modern science. The control of the religious body by certain groups separated the modern science from the religious movement. By the end of the 13th century a number of physical sciences like physics and chemistry were labeled heresy and excluded from the syllabi of madrasahs, however they were taught all over the Muslim world before the 13th century. The stagnation of Fiqh prevented it from developing as a system in which all of its parts were interrelated through a focus on the realization of the overall well being and different fields of human life.

7) The Role of Sufism-Sufism was a major blow to the development of Muslim world. Even though the sharia advocates the establishment of socio-economic justice through creation of public institutions, the Sufis did not want to be in public life, but the they advocated ascetism and certain anti-Islamic beliefs which further distanced Islamic movement from the modern science and the economic development. They condemned the richness; some of them gave up marriage considering women “the evil”, “the Work Of Satan”, the “Seducer into bad things.” Sufism destroyed spiritual and material balance among the lay people by emphasizing piety in its extreme form. It praised poverty and ascetism and promoted ecstatic obliteration of the individual self. Sufism stood for full-time devotion to prayer and lack of interest in pursuing career.

8) Deterioration in the Position of Women- with the weakening of the central government, the spread of political insecurity, and the decline of rationalism, the position of women also suffered in Muslim society. The Quran prescribed equal rights for both men and women (Quran 2:228 ). Roded Ruth in her “Women in Islamic biographical collections from Ibn Sa’d to Who is who”(Boulder and London 1994) mentions that in a literature devoted the Muslim scholars of the 7th century over 1200 of them or 15% of them were females. Even the women are not to be confined to their homes. (Abu Shuqqah, Tahrir al-Marahi fi asr al Risalah, Vol-II, p.15 and 83 1990, Kuwait Dar-ul Qalam). After reading the biographies of thousands of women in 40 biographical collections dating from the 9th century, Ruth Roded, lecturer at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, did not find any evidence to support the view that Muslim women were “marginal, secluded and restricted. She therefore concluded that, “the role of women in traditional Islamic society has often been portrayed in extremely negative terms that are not justified by historic reality.”

And finally, Most Importantly, better than any other reason provided above.:!:

From Ibn 'Umar(radiyallahu 'anhuma) who said that Allah's Messanger (sal'Allahu alayhi wassalam) said: When you take part in 'eenah (a transaction that involves usury, interest) transactions, take hold of tails of cows, become satisfied with cultivation and abandon Jihad, Allah will send humiliation upon you and He will not remove it until you return to your Deen.

Reported by Aboo Daawood (eng. trans. vol. 3, p.395, no.3455) and is reported by Ahmad (no.4825) and Aboo Umayyah at-tarsoose in "Musnad ibn Umar" (no. 22), the hadith is raised to the level of hasan by combination of thses two chains.

To sum up

All of those mentioned factors together, caused Muslim World to plunge into the abyss of poverty and ignorance after remarkable achievements. Not because of Islam, but in spite of Islam the Muslim world declined in other words the lack of adherence to the true teachings of Islaam which are very close and similar to that of Democracy and free society.

[petkaface!]

akhee shipovnik ne kradi

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Petkaface - Banned from view, On the Ignore List.

[Alex]

(1)
First of all I think Islam and secularism are different categories.
Islam is a religion, secularism is a system of government.
What you can compare secularism to is islamism (a system of government based on Islamic canonic law [sharia]) which is a different story.

(2)
The defenition "Secularism is 'A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship'" is simply not true.
Secularism is the separation of religious affairs from the government system, but it does not mean (as some may think) reject religion absolutely.
Agree
Согласен

[Alex]

Islam vs. Secularism

Secularism is defined in the Webster dictionary as: "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

There is no doubt that secularism contradicts Islam in every aspect. They are two different paths that never meet; choosing one means rejecting the other. Hence, whoever chooses Islam has to reject secularism. In the following, we go in the details of explaining why.

1. - First, secularism makes lawful what Allah has made unlawful.

The Rule of Allah (Shari`ah) is compulsory and has basic laws and regulations that cannot be changed. Some of these laws are concerned with the acts of worship, the relations between men and women, etc.

What is the position with regard to these laws?

Secularism makes adultery lawful if the male and the female are consenting adults.

As for Riba (interest on money), it is the basis of all financial transactions in secular economies. On the contrary, Allah says (s.2 A. 278):

"O you who believe, fear Allah and leave what comes from Riba if you are believers. If you do not do so, then wait for a war from Allah and His Messenger."

As for alcohol, all secular systems allow the consumption of alcohol and make selling it a lawful business.
But you can fallow Sharia rules yorself. You don't need to force other people do the same. Secular state allow to drink and sell alcohol bat doesn't force you to do it. Evrebody can choose his way. If man and woman agree with adlutery you can't forbit it. But if you are real Muslim you will not do it. It is easy to fallow Sharia rules in Islamic State and it's hard to do it in secular State. But real Muslim will do it evrywhere. This is a real godliness.

[Кумушбиби]

Are you suggesting that Islam is to blame for the backwardness of some Muslim countries in technology and development? Do you not care to stop for a moment to think that there are many parts of the Christian world like Bolivia, Colombia, Peru, Zaire etc. that are also backward in technology and development. Why then is the accusation applied to Islam only?

Indeed, if we observe some of the Muslim countries, in spite of their lower level of technical development there may be a higher level of moral and socia order. Scientific and technical advancement without moral consciousness breeds crimes and violence in society.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

But you can fallow Sharia rules yorself. You don't need to force other people do the same. Secular state allow to drink and sell alcohol bat doesn't force you to do it. Evrebody can choose his way. If man and woman agree with adlutery you can't forbit it. But if you are real Muslim you will not do it. It is easy to fallow Sharia rules in Islamic State and it's hard to do it in secular State. But real Muslim will do it evrywhere. This is a real godliness.

Alex - Absolutley, from your point of view it is best to live in a country that's not ruled by the Quraan and Sunnah, namely Shari'a.

However, in a democratic country, as well, everyone is "forced" to follow the law, like paying the PST, GST and other taxes like Income Tax..."muslims" cannot marry more than one wife, they cannot inherit or leave heirs the property the way they wish...there are many limitations that muslim would have to follow...

You mentioned "we do not need to force" people into following them (sharia rulings)...We do not actually... Muslims will be obliged to follow sharia rulings, Jews will have their own rulings, Christians their own...For example this is how a "jewish man was stoned to death" in Madina when Muhammad sal'Allahu alayhi wassalam called Jewish religious leaders consulted them what their book, Torah said regarding this case, "they said stoning to death, if a married man."

Public will be following the general rulings, like traffic law everyones equally obeys, or public dress all women cover Muslim or non-Muslim, according to the Muslims, Jews and Christians women are supposed to cover...Refer to their books, or visit Vatican and look at the Nuns..they remind you some other women...Or Jewish Rabbis..who look like Muslim men with beard....Even in the west, you cannot get on public transit or be in public places with your underwear only...in your so called "free country" there is a dress code, there is a limitation...Prostitution for example is illegal in the US and Canada...why is it?? Because it is immoral right?? Where did you get the morality rulings?? Prostitutes believe their rights are being violated because their practicing the oldest profession mankind has ever practiced...(Monkey men they believe used to give good treats to Monkey women cookies for "free pleasures" in return)...

I see lots of double standards and pit holes in the so called democracy, there is no really democracy...Muslim women cannot cover in Public Schools in France, here we go Democracy...There are many arguments...Think about them...these are not arguments..just food for thought...let's do not be shallow in analysis...

For the rest...Mexico, Brasil, Vietnam, Ireland and etc are not Islamic countries are poor...for some reason (s)...I do not think they are poor because of Islaam, very obvious...any dumb can reject this...use the same analogy for the examples you had provided earlier...let's do not be shallow.