Open my eyes!!!

[Gaila]

I was just wondering, how things are going back home, in my motherland, Uzbekistan!!!
I am just confused, why would they close down all the NGOs and kick Peace Corps, Soros, and others out?
Reading the current news, I am astounded on what's happening back home? I hear from my friends that standards of living went down dramatically. I am wondering how people are surviving?

Please, Please, if someone is in Tashkent or other parts of the country at this moment, tell me how the life is? How much people are making per month? What's the cost of bread (lepyoshka)? Any dramatic changes in respect of social life? Opportunities of getting a job upon return for an international company upon return? How are people treated by militsiya? Is it safe to walk around at night? All these questions and whatever you think would give me some perspective on Uzbekistan. Highly appreciated in advance.
Salomat Buling!!!

[Black]

Gaila.

Nothing has changed dramatically, everything (or at least many things) are the same before. Lepyoshka 100 som, buhanka 150. It is true that prices went up. Prices are high, incomes are low. People are treated by militsiya the same as before. Opportunities of getting job in an international (national as well) organisation are not high, because there are not many of them. Walking at night...hmmm, I don't know, I never walk at night (if you mean 10.00-12.00 in the night it is as usual before, but I don't know how it is after 12.00).
People are surviving.... I don't know how.

We hope everything will be fine Inshallah! The hope dies last.

[orxan]

well well. what is true, is that your eyes really should be opened. as it is so obvious why all the organizations were shut down and/or kicked out.

and people from tashkent won't help you , as many of them are in informational blockade. and those who are not, randomly post at this forum, some never ever, guess why? forum is also blocked:lol:

you just have to follow the news, local and world. to find the truth, use different sources and analyse everything, as Truth Is Out There

these are only some of the sources:
www.forum.uz (http://www.forum.uz)
www.fergana.ru (http://www.fergana.ru)
www.gazeta.ru (http://www.gazeta.ru)
www.1tv.ru (http://www.1tv.ru)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/uzbek/
http://news8.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/news/default.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

[orxan]

Gaila.

Nothing has changed dramatically, everything (or at least many things) are the same before. Lepyoshka 100 som, buhanka 150. It is true that prices went up. Prices are high, incomes are low. People are treated by militsiya the same as before. Opportunities of getting job in an international (national as well) organisation are not high, because there are not many of them. Walking at night...hmmm, I don't know, I never walk at night (if you mean 10.00-12.00 in the night it is as usual before, but I don't know how it is after 12.00).
People are surviving.... I don't know how.

We hope everything will be fine Inshallah! The hope dies last.

you see Gaila, this guy is also in some sort of blockade.

Mr. black, saying everything is same, you gave an example of "buhanka" which is now 150 sums. but it was 110 sums last year, however the price of "lepeshka" remained the same. the price for "buhanka" is set by the government. and the price of "lepeshka" is set by the real uzbek market as it is produced by private bakers. so the real market shows that Uzbeks can not afford "lepeshka" at the price of more than 100 sums per peace. knowing that, government raises price of "buhanka" to 150, assuming that most people will afford it. thanks God, they do so far, but what will happen when they won't? - national hunger

Do you know what some people eat in Andijan instead of meat? they eat soups made of cow bones, just the bones, no meat at all.

How about gas shortage? once in Tashkent, like a month ago, there was a huge line at the gas station. And somehow one smart driver managed to cut the line, got some gas and was about to leave. guess what happened? about 40 other drivers who were in the line left their cars, took that guy out of his car and beat him up as badly as they could. Have you ever seen things like that in Tashkent before, when people would beat up their compatriot only because of some crapy gas?
It happened at the gas station close to Chorsu bazar.
more and more people have to use already over crowded public transportation now.

have u ever ridden bus # 38, 58, or even 98 during the rush hours? i did, and at least twice a day for some period of time, and i felt myslef like sprats in can:lol: now imagine people going to work wearing the ironed shirt and tie and getting into that bus:lol:

and these are only few small examples which give us bigger picture:

middle class and poor people suffer a lot of crapy Uzbek economy, and do not have meat every night on their dinner table, others afford themselves to eat in newly opened and/or renovated cafes, restauraunts and night clubs.

and i am not talking yet about arrests of freedom of speech activists and religious people.

shit happens

[Black]

Mr. Orxan chill out pls. Everything is as same before, nothing has changed dramatically. I did not mean that it was good in Uzbekistan before and that did not change.

you see Gaila, this guy is also in some sort of blockade.
As for the blockade, don't worry man, as long as I can reach forum.uz in Uzbekistan and post here that means I can get hell a lot of info ( may be more than you).

Mr. black, saying everything is same, you gave an example of "buhanka" which is now 150 sums. but it was 110 sums last year, however the price of "lepeshka" remained the same. the price for "buhanka" is set by the government. and the price of "lepeshka" is set by the real uzbek market as it is produced by private bakers. so the real market shows that Uzbeks can not afford "lepeshka" at the price of more than 100 sums per peace. knowing that, government raises price of "buhanka" to 150, assuming that most people will afford it. thanks God, they do so far, but what will happen when they won't? - national hunger

I did not mean the prices of every product are the same as it was some 10 years or 1 year before, I meant that the situation is the same as before. Comprehend the difference. And, sorry to say, you "buhanka/lepyoshka" analysis does not make sense. "Government sets the price of buhanka"? Since when government produces buhanka in Uzbekistan? Buhanka is produced by private bakers as well. Also, there are "yopgan non" which is 150 soms or 200 soms, but people buy it anyway, i.e. they can afford it.

Do you know what some people eat in Andijan instead of meat? they eat soups made of cow bones, just the bones, no meat at all.

Although I live in Tashkent I do have a lot of relatives in regions (much more far from Andijan), so I know quite well how people live in villages or other towns. I did not say that people live well in Andijan or any other region, I said "nothing has changed dramatically". Because, people in Andijan started eating bones instead of meat not recently, but several years ago, so it is not news, it is not change. It was like that before, and it has not changed. If people of Andijan had started eating meat instead of bones I could have been wrong, but, unfortunately, it is not so.

How about gas shortage? once in Tashkent, like a month ago, there was a huge line at the gas station. And somehow one smart driver managed to cut the line, got some gas and was about to leave. guess what happened? about 40 other drivers who were in the line left their cars, took that guy out of his car and beat him up as badly as they could. Have you ever seen things like that in Tashkent before, when people would beat up their compatriot only because of some crapy gas? It happened at the gas station close to Chorsu bazar.
Do you mean benzin here? This is an exception, but it is normalised now, only couple of days ago I saw half empty gas stations, i.e. suppling gas in gas stations returned back to normal. The only thing is that gas prices went up by about 100 som, (A-76, Ai-80 - 425 som, A-93 - 470 som), now no queues in gas stations. As for regions, it was like that always, queues and people selling gas on baklashkas and etc., You see, nothing has changed dramatically, the same old song.
We talked about why oil product prices went up, it is not problem only in Uzbekistan, but everywhere.

more and more people have to use already over crowded public transportation now.

have u ever ridden bus # 38, 58, or even 98 during the rush hours? i did, and at least twice a day for some period of time, and i felt myslef like sprats in can:lol: now imagine people going to work wearing the ironed shirt and tie and getting into that bus:lol:

I take sometimes #38 and #58 buses , and I tell you: they were like that before ( few years ago) and the same now, nothing has changed.

and these are only few small examples which give us bigger picture:

middle class and poor people suffer a lot of crapy Uzbek economy, and do not have meat every night on their dinner table, others afford themselves to eat in newly opened and/or renovated cafes, restauraunts and night clubs.

and i am not talking yet about arrests of freedom of speech activists and religious people.

shit happens

These examples shows that nothing has changed in Uzbekistan. If people in Uzbekistan had started to live better you could have blamed me that I am in informational blockade and I am wrong. Try to understand that the question was "Has the life changed dramatically in Uzbekistan" and I said "No, it is the same as before". We are not talking that the life in Uzbekistan changed to better side. It is the same as before (remember - I am not saying that it is by 100% the same as last year, but there is no big changes- the prices are going up as usual, people earn just to survive, and people of Andijan eat bones instead of meat like it was last year). Before accusing somebody on something just try to understand what they are talking about, then you can say your opnion.

P.S. I guess you are abroad. Here in Uzbekistan I can read what is in Internet and see what is the real life in Uzbekistan, so most probably, I think I know better than you about the changes in Uzb. Correct me if I am wrong.

Peace.

[Royal]

If You want pictures of the Tashkent or Uzbekistan or other cities of Uzbekistan, just type in Photo search in www.webshots.com
You can see lots of pictures from Uzbekistan from local markets and places.

www.webshots.com get free membership and You may download pictures from there as screan saver.
sample pictures:
Toshkent kochalaridan biri:
http://image48.webshots.com/49/7/59/43/384475943HkaWpk_ph.jpg

Ozimizani Kokcha masjid:

http://image24.webshots.com/24/2/58/0/285925800rQHqSh_ph.jpg

[3Zam_Minister]

No matter how bad it iz, i've been to Uzbekistan just bout a week ago, it is a mother land.....
I do not say that i love some people who act themselves as a heard of cows.... but i understand them, their mentality and their life.....
But my trip was somewhat boring.....I mean tshkent is dead.... life stagnation... if you people know what i am talking about.....
But the city is still beautifulllllllllllllllllllllllllll :)

[orxan]

I did not mean the prices of every product are the same as it was some 10 years or 1 year before, I meant that the situation is the same as before. Comprehend the difference. And, sorry to say, you "buhanka/lepyoshka" analysis does not make sense. "Government sets the price of buhanka"? Since when government produces buhanka in Uzbekistan? Buhanka is produced by private bakers as well. Also, there are "yopgan non" which is 150 soms or 200 soms, but people buy it anyway, i.e. they can afford it.

numero uno. for your attention, senor, the price of bread sold in grocery stores in Uzbekistan is set by government!!! that's so funny you do not know that living in Tashkent. this is the first example of your informational blockadeness:lol:
if the freaking sales person at the store would sell the bread for more than the original price, he or she would go to jail, pappi, beleive me or not. if you still have any doubts on that, go and ask the salesman or saleswoman at the closest grocery and tell me the answer when you come back.

as for now, read this:

Official documents sent to Uzbek groceries and suchlike establishments state that "new prices of grain and bread have been set as of October 3, 2004, with the consent of the Finance Ministry of the Republic of Uzbekistan."
A standard 600 gr loaf of bread (made of first class dough - the so called grey bread) cost 125 sums on October 2 and 150 sums on October 3 (a 20% rise).
Bread in Uzbekistan falls into the category of "socially important" goods. It means that there is the maximum price set by the state, and this price is not to be exceeded. That is why every bread price-rise is made by the administrative decision to up the wholesale and retain grain and bread prices. This is not the first price-rise in 2004. Price of bread rose from 110 to 125 sums bare months ago.
the price-rise will only affect whoever cannot afford high quality bread. That means the largest and simultaneously the poorest part of the population.
http://enews.ferghana.ru/detail.php?id=1299484128.061,1018,16534292

now tell me everything is the same. tell me that nothing have changed, since there was a bread price raise twicely annually.

want some more? here you go:lol:

For many Uzbeks, the bazaar remains a key barometer. As RFE/RL's Uzbek Service reported on 29 July, the prices of basic goods have risen. For example, 1 kilogram of beef now sells for 2,800-3,000 soms (1,000 soms is roughly equally to $1), while a kilogram of lamb sells for 3,000-3,500 soms, an increase of 500 soms over last year. (For context, the World Bank defines Uzbekistan as a low-income country, with gross national income per person of $420 in 2003.) The prices of other agricultural products have increased approximately 30 percent over the past year.
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/6FF10022-E8F4-451F-B473-36130A7ADA22.html

Do you mean benzin here? This is an exception, but it is normalised now, only couple of days ago I saw half empty gas stations, i.e. suppling gas in gas stations returned back to normal. The only thing is that gas prices went up by about 100 som, (A-76, Ai-80 - 425 som, A-93 - 470 som), now no queues in gas stations. As for regions, it was like that always, queues and people selling gas on baklashkas and etc., You see, nothing has changed dramatically, the same old song.
We talked about why oil product prices went up, it is not problem only in Uzbekistan, but everywhere.

everything is back for now, might last for a while, then again shortage, again lines at the gas stations. isn't it freaking change? or everything goes smoothly? never ever. how we call it? - instability. are common Uzbeks sure that they will not go bankruptcy tomorow? nah, as you never know what government has for you.

I take sometimes #38 and #58 buses , and I tell you: they were like that before ( few years ago) and the same now, nothing has changed.

the point is, as there is shortage in gas and people have problems getting it, they most likely would use public transportation to move around the city, and will make those already over crowded busses"(few years ago, as u say) even more over crowded. do you see any changes here? if you don't, then we're not at the same page.

These examples shows that nothing has changed in Uzbekistan. If people in Uzbekistan had started to live better you could have blamed me that I am in informational blockade and I am wrong. Try to understand that the question was "Has the life changed dramatically in Uzbekistan" and I said "No, it is the same as before".


and do not narrow the topic, open your eyes, and look at the bigger picture. After Andijan, things have changed drastically. more and more activists get arrested. they get beaten up and have put in jail. same happens to religious people. they afraid to go to mosque now more often than needed.

many of the international organizations, NGOs, foundations, have been shut down. others got kicked out:

thousands of university and high school students used to get free English classes from Peace Corps volunteers. what are they gonna do now? - learn English from local teachers

at least 15 students annually had a chance to go to US for free for a whole year, funded by US dep. of state and runned by Irex. where are they gonna go now? -maximum trip to Tashkent, and then back to the home town. and Irex was also running Muskie program, so now even grad students can't enjoy their free 2 year stay in US

The US Senate has voted to block a $23m payment to Uzbekistan, after the Uzbek government ended an agreement for US troops to use an airbase there. what does it mean? - means that Uzbek budget is now short of $ 23 millions. how are we gonna cover that hole in budget? send more high school and college students to gather cotton at the fields. have u ever been there? i don't wish you be there, especially when you are 15 or 16.

Now Uzbekistan ( not only you:lol:) is in the biggest blockade ever. US ignores us, EU puts sanctions on us, even UN has worsened relationships with the state. the president, who used to be welcomed as a fighter against terrorism now is known as a mass killer and tyrant. if before wolrd community used to close its eyes on his regime's tyranny, now they scream as loud as they could ever. country has lost the tiniest respect it had before.
Yeah we're friends with Russia now and China. what would that end with? more and more people would migrate to Russia and China to make some money.

so, now son, open your eyes, stop clapping with your ears, and feel sorry about your countrymen. If Andijan did not affect you personally, it did affect many many people and hell knows how it will reflect on the lives of Uzbeks later.

[orxan]

and in order to end this debate, a small story about the bread.

The prices of other agricultural products have increased approximately 30 percent over the past year

How does this affect the lives of ordinary Uzbeks? RFE/RL's Uzbek Service recently reported on the daily life of a 40-year-old woman from Andijon. Her husband is in prison, she works as a teacher, and she has seven children, five of her own and two from her husband's first marriage. The oldest is 17, the youngest four. The woman's salary from the school where she teaches is 15,000 soms a month, and she receives 13,000 soms a month in subsidies for her children. She described her family's efforts to supplement this meager budget of $28 a month:

The family fell on hard times. "The 28,000 soms I get each month isn't enough for bread. Each month, bread alone costs 60,000 soms," the woman explained. "I keep us afloat by selling things around the house. We've been living in these circumstances for three years now. Even if my husband were released from jail on an amnesty, would that solve our problems?"

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/6FF10022-E8F4-451F-B473-36130A7ADA22.html


some math. 60000 sums, assuming they eat only so called grey bread. the price per piece is 150 sums, which makes it 400 pieces a months, or 14.2 pieces a day. and she has 7 kids + herself. each kid gets less than 2 pieces of grey bread a day.

and you talk here about round bread with a cost of 150-200 sums per piece(as u mentioned). last time they saw that bread was 5 years ago in their sweetiest night dream

[Black]

and in order to end this debate, a small story about the bread.

The prices of other agricultural products have increased approximately 30 percent over the past year

How does this affect the lives of ordinary Uzbeks? RFE/RL's Uzbek Service recently reported on the daily life of a 40-year-old woman from Andijon. Her husband is in prison, she works as a teacher, and she has seven children, five of her own and two from her husband's first marriage. The oldest is 17, the youngest four. The woman's salary from the school where she teaches is 15,000 soms a month, and she receives 13,000 soms a month in subsidies for her children. She described her family's efforts to supplement this meager budget of $28 a month:

The family fell on hard times. "The 28,000 soms I get each month isn't enough for bread. Each month, bread alone costs 60,000 soms," the woman explained. "I keep us afloat by selling things around the house. We've been living in these circumstances for three years now. Even if my husband were released from jail on an amnesty, would that solve our problems?"

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/6FF10022-E8F4-451F-B473-36130A7ADA22.html


some math. 60000 sums, assuming they eat only so called grey bread. the price per piece is 150 sums, which makes it 400 pieces a months, or 14.2 pieces a day. and she has 7 kids + herself. each kid gets less than 2 pieces of grey bread a day.

and you talk here about round bread with a cost of 150-200 sums per piece(as u mentioned). last time they saw that bread was 5 years ago in their sweetiest night dream

Hafa bo'lmangu, otdan tushsa ham eshakdan tushmaydi deganlardan ekansiz.
Ha mayli salomat bo'ling, siz bilan bahslashish niyatim yo'q, chunki sizning niyatingiz Haqiqatni aniqlash emas, balki o'zingizning haqligingizni isbotlashdir.
Men faqat Guila ga javob berdim holos, O'zbekistonda ahvol jiddiy o'zgarmagan, tamom vassalom. Bu haqda cheksiz bahslashish mumkin, lekin nima foyda???

so, now son, open your eyes, stop clapping with your years, and feel sorry about your countrymen. If Andijan did not affect you personally, it did affect many many people and hell knows how it will reflect on the lives of Uzbeks later.

These words are rude words and has nothing to do with what I told, it is not related to the topic. This is just a lame argument by your side to prove your words.
Anyway chill out and Peace.

[Bonik]

I am just confused, why would they close down all the NGOs and kick Peace Corps, Soros, and others out?


I have heard some opinions that Peace corps and Red Cross have some connections with CIA... This is not a proven fact though.

But I'm sure why government kicked the "arse" of Soros :) ! Soros is a monster with huge resources :) who busted the Great Britain's 'pound' in early Nineties; who busted Thailand's national currency in late Nineties. To make the long short. Soros is a person who gets rich by crushing the Whole countries' economies. But it's not his fault though... It's a fault of those countries with weak monetary policies. That's why Uzbekistan kicked him out :) That's as simple as that!
;)

[orxan]

I have heard some opinions that Peace corps and Red Cross have some connections with CIA... This is not a proven fact though.

But I'm sure why government kicked the "arse" of Soros :) ! Soros is a monster with huge resources :) who busted the Great Britain's 'pound' in early Nineties; who busted Thailand's national currency in late Nineties. To make the long short. Soros is a person who gets rich by crushing the Whole countries' economies. But it's not his fault though... It's a fault of those countries with weak monetary policies. That's why Uzbekistan kicked him out :) That's as simple as that!
;)

Red Cross is an international organization and does not represent the interest of any country. it might be interested in well being of Switzerland, but this country is neutral and does not have any plans to influence the politics in Uzbekistan.

even if Peace Corps volunteers are somehow connected to CIA, those guys did a good job in Uzbekistan by teaching English for free and working in healthcare

Soros was kicked out long before the Andijan. officially they closed at the end of June 2004, but Uzbek authorities gave them a notice in the beginning of that year

[infolife]

Andijonda kambag'allashdi bazi oilalar: O'lganlarni oilasidagilar o'lim-marakaga, yaradorlarniki esa bir balo qilib pul b/n uyda davolab olishga(scared to go to hospital) ancha pul sarflab quydi.
Things are getting from bad to worse, village people get money once a year,when they pick up cotton. Bechoralarga hozir bayram oyi,pullari kupayib qolgan,qayerga sig'dirishni bilmaydi;)
Keyin,oylikni har avgustda 10-15 % oshiradiyu,oshgan oylik qo'lga tegmay turib narsalar 20-25% oshadi.
gap ko'p, Ho'sh,bir maqola yozsammikin-a:rolleyes:

[stanford]

When is the death of my motherland?

Things are getting from bad to worse