Gorbachev: U.S. needs perestroika

[Administrator]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/18/britain.gorbachev.ap/index.html

mdaaa....

[UzLand]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/18/britain.gorbachev.ap/index.html

mdaaa....

Ува-ха-ха-ха....Горбачев теперь США хочет развалить:) Горбачева в президенты США! Изменить Конституцию США!:)

[Administrator]

lekin Gorbach ga ham haqa berish kerak,AQSH siyosatiga ham hozir oziga hos bir "perestroyka" zarur.

[Pythagor]

Zhirinovsky etgandek, hech balo o'zgarmidi, chunki ulani hammasini tepasida evreyla....

[Martingale]

Gorbachevni hurmat qilaman. Umuman olib qaraganda, Gorbachevni niyati SSSR ni butunlay yuq qivorish bulmagan, usha davrdagi krizisni oldini olish uchun ozgina erkinlik bermoqchi bugan. Gorbachevni shahsan tanidigan odamni shahsan taniman:D . Gorbachev 2 3 yil oldin mani univerimga ham kegan. Umuman mani universitetimda Post_Soviet Union uchun mahsus political center bor, har hil researchlar qilishadi, Gorbachevni ham research centeri bor deb eshitganman Moskvada. Kimdir qiziqsa, info berishim mumkin.

[SayFuLLoH]

S odnoy storoni pravil'no chto on razvalil USSR-teper' mnogoe vozmojno..
S drugoy storoni:Esli u tebya na Rodine toje samoe proishodit,posle padeniya USSR,tak-kakogo figa,valit' derjavu,i jit' kak ranshe,no ne imeya uvajeniya svoih sopernikov?

[UzLand]

Gorbachevni hurmat qilaman. Umuman olib qaraganda, Gorbachevni niyati SSSR ni butunlay yuq qivorish bulmagan, usha davrdagi krizisni oldini olish uchun ozgina erkinlik bermoqchi bugan.

If the Belovezh Pusha agreement was not signed, the USSR would have been reformed. Gorbachev's fault was that he was too slow and too soft. He should have been tougher on yeltsin if he wanted to win. Nazarbaev was to become vice-president of the reformed USSR. I guss they wanted to make it a federation with more authority released to republics. Nazarbaev was on his way to Moscow to become VP when the three decided the fate of the 12.

[rudnic]

Gorbachevni hurmat qilaman. Umuman olib qaraganda, Gorbachevni niyati SSSR ni butunlay yuq qivorish bulmagan, usha davrdagi krizisni oldini olish uchun ozgina erkinlik bermoqchi bugan. Gorbachevni shahsan tanidigan odamni shahsan taniman:D . Gorbachev 2 3 yil oldin mani univerimga ham kegan. Umuman mani universitetimda Post_Soviet Union uchun mahsus political center bor, har hil researchlar qilishadi, Gorbachevni ham research centeri bor deb eshitganman Moskvada. Kimdir qiziqsa, info berishim mumkin.
I have read biography of Gorbachev and totally changed my mind.He is known as a man that dissolved USSR (unfortunately) but his ideas were totally positive and proactive. But Communists(Army I mean) were not ready for that restructuring. Anyway.
For US a man like Gorbachev may be perfect choice.
1.they will see how the Communists think,
2.they would have an opportunity to weigh themselves,
3.if he fails again then it will be good for the World too.

[Uzbekxonim]

I suggest that Gorbachev's statements will have no effect on US.I don't think that they (americans) consider him as a person to whose words Americans should listen to.

p.s. I do respect Gorbachev he did good things in his life and to some extent i'm thankfull to him - he caused the possibility for Uzbekistan to become independant.

[Bonik]

I suggest that Gorbachev's statements will have no effect on US.I don't think that they (americans) consider him as a person to whose words Americans should listen to.


I second that!

Кто будет слушать человека который устраивается работать Гидом :)

[UzLand]

I second that!

Кто будет слушать человека который устраивается работать Гидом :)

...Или который на выборах в президенты в России набрал всего лишь 1%:)

[UzLand]

...Или который на выборах в президенты в России набрал всего лишь 1%:)

Или снимался в ролике Пиццы-хат:)

[Administrator]

he caused the possibility for Uzbekistan to become independant.
maybe that was his great tragical mistake for ordinary(for most) uzbeks?
what do you think?

[Uzbekxonim]

maybe that was his great tragical mistake for ordinary(for most) uzbeks?
what do you think?

i don't think that becoming independant was a mistake for ordinary Uzbeks, I'm proud of being independant (at least officially)

[Administrator]

i think at many aspects it was tragical for ordinary uzbeks.

[stanford]

i don't think that becoming independant was a mistake for ordinary Uzbeks, I'm proud of being independant (at least officially)
I still do not understand how USSR collapsed exactly.

[Bonik]

I still do not understand how USSR collapsed exactly.

Only Alloh taolo knows for sure !

but my speculation is that a lot of bribe money was involved...

[UzLand]

i don't think that becoming independant was a mistake for ordinary Uzbeks, I'm proud of being independant (at least officially)

Right, but at least it would have been done smarter and smoother without social and economic complications we had to go through.

[Delf]

I still do not understand how USSR collapsed exactly.

I watched Gorbachev on C-Span yesterday along with Bill Clinton, Collin Powell and others. So he gave following reasons for the collapse of the country: 2 conspiracies and his slowness and lack of action. First conspiracy is the failed coup in August 1991, during which he didn't act decisevely, and the second, unfortunately successful, the December coup in Belovejskaya Pusha. Had Gorbachev acted during those days, Soviet Union would probably finish reforms and tranfer into a democratic developed country. All required attributes were there: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, free and fair elections with multiple parties, educated and enthusiastic population supporting reforms. There was a transition to market economy - cooperatives and hozraschet.

If Nazarbaev became the President of USSR as planned, I think he would be able to finish the reforms and 300 million of people would live a much better life today as well as there would be a balance for US hegemony.


Delf.

[UzLand]

If Nazarbaev became the President of USSR as planned, I think he would be able to finish the reforms and 300 million of people would live a much better life today as well as there would be a balance for US hegemony.Delf.

Nazarbaev is smarter and more decisive. Gorbachev should have brought him to Kremlin earlier. However, GKChP amlaga oshganda ham reforma bo'lishi mumkin edi. Chunki ular Gorbachevning sustligidan toyishgan edi.

[UzLand]

If Nazarbaev became the President of USSR as planned, I think he would be able to finish the reforms and 300 million of people would live a much better life today as well as there would be a balance for US hegemony.Delf.

Aytganday, Gorbachev "Grammy" olibdi:)

[Кумушбиби]

СССР - машина, на которую работали порабощённые народы. Коммунизм - зло, которое отрицало свободу, отрицало личность, отрицало дух.

Идеология коммунизма было направлена на уничтожение религии, с кот. необходимо бороться, как с "превратным мировоззрением" (К.Маркс). Хотя подменив религию, коммунизм принял ложнорелигиозное обличье. Его идеология претендует на собственную версию сотворения мира и происхождения человека (дарвинизм). В основе его лежит вероучение со своего рода "священным писанием". В ней свое учение о пути "спасения", свои священные "образы", "догматы", свои церемониальные действия (парады, демонстрации), и наконец, свои "храмы" (дворцы советов, красные уголки с портретами Ленина).

Поэтому, боюсь, что те кто до сих пор ностальгирует по "Стране Советов" стоят на безрелигиозной позиции, потому и становится понятным, почему они, тайно или явно, все еще мечтают о "социализме с социалистическим лицом".

P.s. ИАК - продукт демонического зла коммунизма.

[infolife]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Aytganday, Gorbachev "Grammy" olibdi:)

[infolife]

tan olila:most uzbeks keep saying the life was much better under USSR!
Qishloqda pahta terib kun ko'ruvchilarni officialness-rasmiyatchilik b/n nima ishi bor,non topishga qiynalib turganda:rolleyes:
i don't think that becoming independant was a mistake for ordinary Uzbeks, I'm proud of being independant (at least officially)

[UzLand]

Поэтому, боюсь, что те кто до сих пор ностальгирует по "Стране Советов" стоят на безрелигиозной позиции, потому и становится понятным, почему они, тайно или явно, все еще мечтают о "социализме с социалистическим лицом".

Ложь, потому что люди, которые боролись за независимость, меньше всего ставили религию на первое место. На первом месте была свобода как таковая. И те кто по СССР ностальгирует это как минимум две группы: 1) те, чьи лучшие дни прошли в СССР 2) те, кто сегодня в худшем социальном и экономическом положении

[Uzbekxonim]

tan olila:most uzbeks keep saying the life was much better under USSR!
Qishloqda pahta terib kun ko'ruvchilarni officialness-rasmiyatchilik b/n nima ishi bor,non topishga qiynalib turganda:rolleyes:
better days will come.... I'm sure.... I hope...

[infolife]

I do hope as well,but not sure where the state is heading:rolleyes:
I don't see any hope in the near future.........:rolleyes:

better days will come.... I'm sure.... I hope...

[Кумушбиби]

Uzland,

Грош цена борьбе за независимость, не имевшей духовно-нравственных корней. Идеология этакой борьбы ошибочна, не только по своим результатам, но и по исходным принципам. Возможно этим и объясняется плачевное положение дел в Независимом Узбекистане.
Пожалуй, потому мы и сидим у разбитого корыта, уже который год.

Мораль: Когда число людей с духовными ориентирами резко превысит число пионеров и прочих "ура-патриотов", тогда на горизонте появится некогда обещанное "великое будущее Узбекистана".

А Аллах знает лучше.

[UzLand]

Uzland,

Грош цена борьбе за независимость, не имевшей духовно-нравственных корней.

Нужно признать, что духовности (не обязательно религиозной) было больше в атеистическом СССР, чем в нынешнем Узбекистане. Я не имею ввиду верхушку...а образ жизни.

[stanford]

I watched Gorbachev on C-Span yesterday along with Bill Clinton, Collin Powell and others. So he gave following reasons for the collapse of the country: 2 conspiracies and his slowness and lack of action. First conspiracy is the failed coup in August 1991, during which he didn't act decisevely, and the second, unfortunately successful, the December coup in Belovejskaya Pusha. Had Gorbachev acted during those days, Soviet Union would probably finish reforms and tranfer into a democratic developed country. All required attributes were there: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, free and fair elections with multiple parties, educated and enthusiastic population supporting reforms. There was a transition to market economy - cooperatives and hozraschet.


He was an American hero and traitor of his own people.Now he is rich with American dollars and he recieved a Nobel prize for destroying Soviet life.

[Administrator]

СССР - машина, на которую работали порабощённые
народы. Коммунизм - зло, которое отрицало свободу,
отрицало личность, отрицало дух.

aay.....aay....aaay nenado tak fantazirovat :lol:
vam takiye sakazki v shkole raskazivayut(somnevayus chto vashi roditeli vam govorili takuyu eres) :wink:
ili vi toje yavlyaytes poklonnitsey postingov nashih turetskih druzey iz "turkistan forumu" :lol:

[Delf]

He was an American hero and traitor of his own people.Now he is rich with American dollars and he recieved a Nobel prize for destroying Soviet life.

No, he is not the traitor. Eltsin is. Gorbachev never made billions of dollars, Eltsin's family did. Gorbachev never advocated or acted to destroy the country, Eltsin did. Somehow people forget that it was Eltsin who destroyed USSR to advance his own career. Being populist politician Eltsin escaped the responsibility for what he did.

Gorbachev was a reformer from his first day as leader of USSR. He did everything he could to turn autharitarian, ineffective, isolated and repressive country into a developed democratic nation. USSR had chance to reform without breaking up. All blame should be directed at Eltsin, not Gorbachev.

Eltsin is the traitor, not Gorbachev.

Delf.

[stanford]

No, he is not the traitor. Eltsin is. Gorbachev never made billions of dollars, Eltsin's family did. Gorbachev never advocated or acted to destroy the country, Eltsin did. Somehow people forget that it was Eltsin who destroyed USSR to advance his own career. Being populist politician Eltsin escaped the responsibility for what he did.

Gorbachev was a reformer from his first day as leader of USSR. He did everything he could to turn autharitarian, ineffective, isolated and repressive country into a developed democratic nation. USSR had chance to reform without breaking up. All blame should be directed at Eltsin, not Gorbachev.

Eltsin is the traitor, not Gorbachev.

Delf.

I have no problem accepting that Gorbachev is more well-versed leader than Yeltsin.He wanted to change the USSR, make it more open to the world, and efficient. But later he finds out that he can't change the corrupted system, and what I believe is he had to take it down completely since it's out of control. :(

[Administrator]

No, he is not the traitor. Eltsin is. Gorbachev never made billions of dollars, Eltsin's family did. Gorbachev never advocated or acted to destroy the country, Eltsin did. Somehow people forget that it was Eltsin who destroyed USSR to advance his own career. .
yes,you are right ,it was 100% yesltin's fault,he destroyed but not gorbachev..