View Full Version : Study techniques: group work or individual approach?
Hi all,
I think majority of forum members had or has the opportunity to compare our (soviet, post-soviet) way of education and western one. One of distinguishing features of the last one is group work, whereas we got used to more indivuduallistic approach. It is interesting to know your opinion on whether you like the group work or no.
As for my personal opinion, then I would say that group work reduces the responsibility of each group member and gives them sometimes the opportunity to "hide" behind other's back. There are a lot of "free riders" in group work. It doesn't give the opportunity to express your own point of view or show your own abilities or skills, unless you are strong leader and was able to argue for each of your suggestions and leave them in the final report as they were originally suggested by you. If people work in group it is not that big challenge any more, at least for each of them. And the thing that annoys me the most is that just because one of your group member appears to be dumb, others have a big "chance" to get a bad grade at the end (unless you volunteer to do the final "make-up" on your own, to avoid mistakes and etc.).
So even though people here say that group work creates a "real" environment, as leaving the school you most likely gonna work among other people, in teams and won't be able to have an individual approach to every single thing, I think that it all depends on personality and it doesn't matter whether you have spent all your college time working in groups or studying on your own and making own projects. Another point is that teachers make their life easier reducing the number of works they have to check (it was an honest confession of one of them), where in group of twenty instead of checking 20 works or reading and analyzing 20 reports they can do it for 4 groups of 5 members.
I have to admit that it is good to have a group work experience, but at least this work shouldn't be graded, just for experience, regular assignment. Hope that I made it clear :) Now the floor is yours.
Best,
Arti
Mona Lisa
11-14-2005, 04:39 AM
Type of assessment whether team projects or individual assignments depends on the subject. Group project must be 'big' so that there is enough piece of work for all. Some subjects are best fit for group work while others not really.
Overall I would agree that group projects are good but at the same time annoying if things do not go as you've wished for. I think that's essence of team work that way people learn to concider others not just himself.
Peer review in group work is kind of catchy. If somebody in the group doesn't really like a certain member then he/she can penalise that person regardless of how much effort that member put in. Here communication skills is very important to build good relationship with all group members.
Martingale
11-14-2005, 06:55 AM
Teamwork is good, but I prefer an independent project to that. My last experience with teamwork was not favorable. Although I had done the most mathematical part of the project(which is the most hardest for americans:) ), I got the lowest point. Each group member should give evaluation of other members. As the professor knew me better, she did not take off any points for that project. I know I wasted my time working in the team for the project that I could do on my own.
Пушкарева
11-14-2005, 07:22 AM
I like the group work. Because when you do not understand something, these are the other members who can help you.
It was sampling inferential statistics and we had to do a project on that. I understood only the fist half of the case, but further... First, I was too upset thinking that it was only me who did not, but then I knew that the problem was tough enough even for domestic students. To wrap that up: My team members helped me to understand the complicated statistical language and explain what was asked. Besides, there is another non-academic advantage of a group work - it gets you closer with your classmates.
Arti,
You are missing the major point of group projects, which is to be able to work in groups. Sounds too simple and obvious? Not really, if you think more critically about the whole purpose of group projects.
Now, from what you mentioned above, I would not hire you for a job that would require strong interpersonal/communication skills with a cross-functional teamwork environment. Meaning you will have hard time finding A job. Why? Very often responsibilities are inter-dependent in any given company [even within the departments] for many good reasons.
Therefore, group projects are designed to test your ability to work with other people. It's a way to develop one's leadership skills - not in a sense that one leads and the rest of the group are followers. Leaderships is when you have the ability to communicate yourself well to others; ability to listen and accept ideas that significantly differ from yours or new to you; ability to help those who're lagging behind; ability to work with difficult people. That is the bigger purpose of the group projects, not what you mentioned above.
Shock
11-14-2005, 09:17 AM
Group work is BS, especially when U are with Chineese groupmates-togather we are failing from last year's project on cleaner technoligy course :twisted:
Martingale
11-14-2005, 09:26 AM
Arti,
You are missing the major point of group projects, which is to be able to work in groups. Sounds too simple and obvious? Not really, if you think more critically about the whole purpose of group projects.
Now, from what you mentioned above, I would not hire you for a job that would require strong interpersonal/communication skills with a cross-functional team work environment. Meaning you will have hard time finding A job. Why? Very often responsibilities are inter-dependent in any given company [even within the departments] for many good reasons.
Therefore, group projects are designed to test your ability to work with other people. It's a way to develop one's leadership skills - not in a sense that one leads and the rest of the group are followers. Leaderships is when you have the ability to communicate yourself well to others; ability to listen and accept ideas that significantly differ from yours or new to you; ability to help those who're lagging behind; ability to work with difficult people. That is the bigger purpose of the group projects, not what you mentioned above.
WASP, you are right when it comes to ability of working in the team. But the question is are you getting sth out of it? If no, why should you ever worry about this whole lot of things you gotta do working in the team?
BTW, it's still true that you mention the imporatnce of teamwork, "leader is the team not a member" bla blah blah while getting hired or whenver you face this kinda stuff. This is all BS.:) But in reality I do not like group project unless sth is coming out of it.
When you work alone, without any hassle, you feel yourself like a king! :cool: Does it matter? No? Then you are not an exception.:)
WASP, you are right when it comes to ability of working in the team. But the question is are you getting sth out of it? If no, why should you ever worry about this whole lot of things you gotta do working in the team?
BTW, it's still true that you mention the imporatnce of teamwork, "leader is the team not a member" bla blah blah while getting hired or whenver you face this kinda stuff. This is all BS.:) But in reality I do not like group project unless sth is coming out of it.
When you work alone, without any hassle, you feel yourself like a king! :cool: Does it matter? No? Then you are not an exception.:)
1)Anti-social
2)Lack of leaderships skills
The latter well justfies your statement. With that attitude, I don't think you will be able to land a job anywhere near i-banking or, generally speaking, financial services.
Here's a practical interview question for all of you:
"Give me an example where you demonstrated strong leadership skills."
Martingale
11-14-2005, 09:40 AM
1)Anti-social
2)Lack of leaderships skills
The latter well justfies your statement. With that attitude, I don't think you will be able to land a job anywhere near i-banking or, generally speaking, financial services.
Dude, how can you make such assumptions not knowing me?:rolleyes:
Tell me what determines your leadership skills. Resume? :)
For I banking - your social, customer, communication skills can't get you the job. Believe me there are other much important things than these. of course, Im not excluding them too.
Im anti social?? you gotta be kidding. So you make your friends only in group projects? hmm...you are asking for reconsideration of my opinion that maybe you are exception too, but in the other way.:lol:
Mona Lisa
11-14-2005, 09:46 AM
Group work is BS, especially when U are with Chineese groupmates-togather we are failing from last year's project on cleaner technoligy course :twisted:
I feel really sorry for you :P
At the moment one of my friend is having a hard time with her group mates. Reason: two italians, one british, one american and one mature student from papau new geanea but no single agreement on westernization of cultures. Too much of internationalisation :)
Dude, how can you make such assumptions not knowing me?:rolleyes:
Tell me what determines your leadership skills. Resume? :)
For I banking - your social, customer, communication skills can't get you the job. Believe me there are other much important things than these. of course, Im not excluding them too.
Im anti social?? you gotta be kidding. So you make your friends only in group projects? hmm...you are asking for reconsideration of my opinion that maybe you are exception too, but in the other way.:lol:
My experience.
You should ask questions if you are not clear about what I say [also, one of the qualities of leadership]. I made two assumptions: you are either an anti-social OR you lack leadership skills. Then, I followed by the second assumption. Had I known you, I would STATE my conclusion, rather than making assumptions. Assumptions, therefore, ASSUME, because I don't know you.
Interpersonal/comm skills are arguably number one skill necessary to succeed in I-banking [actually, in any field]. Believe me, I know a lot more than you can imagine about financial services.
Who said anything about making friends in group projects? Needless to ask, but what is wrong with networking with your own classmates? Stay sharp, dude. No disrespect, but don't act as if your opinion matters to me.
Queen
11-14-2005, 02:42 PM
until it's sth that needs to be done in groups, I don't prefer group work. usually, Americans say let's study in groups, there is only one person who knows subject better than others and he is the one who explains. That's called helping sdy who is weak in that class/problem, not joining all the minds and come up with sth that individuals could not. Most of the time, there is talking out of the subject, and waste of time. Group work has never been effecient for me. Not loving group work does not mean lacking leadership abilities or communication skills, that just means lacking extra time. Leader is the one who knows his stuff, thus he is the one needed in that group, the rest of the group listens to him.
illusion
11-14-2005, 02:52 PM
I, personally, prefer individual projects...The reason is that usually my professor assigns all the "Don't really care" type of people to my group and usually I'm the one who does all the work for others! Not cool....
Martingale
11-14-2005, 02:56 PM
My experience.
You should ask questions if you are not clear about what I say [also, one of the qualities of leadership]. I made two assumptions: you are either an anti-social OR you lack leadership skills. Then, I followed by the second assumption. Had I known you, I would STATE my conclusion, rather than making assumptions. Assumptions, therefore, ASSUME, because I don't know you.
Interpersonal/comm skills are arguably number one skill necessary to succeed in I-banking [actually, in any field]. Believe me, I know a lot more than you can imagine about financial services.
Who said anything about making friends in group projects? Needless to ask, but what is wrong with networking with your own classmates? Stay sharp, dude. No disrespect, but don't act as if your opinion matters to me.
What kinda experience you have that helped you to sharpen your leadership skills? :)
Interpersonal/comm skills are arguably number one skill necessary to succeed in I-banking [actually, in any field]. Believe me, I know a lot more than you can imagine about financial services.
for example? Wanna make sure that you can really beat my imagination.:)
There is nothing wrong with that. Im just telling you based on my own experience. group projects are not that effective as they are perceived to be. And for getting job those skills are NOT needed(or do you think you can actually demonstrate your leadership skills in half an hour:) ), everything you need is to be able to make up a story where you did sth and sth real big has happened.:)
Tokugawa
11-14-2005, 07:46 PM
From personal experience.
So far I had 7 groupwork class projects. One was very successful - I gained useful knowledge and was motivated by the rest of the team. The other projects, in my opinion, failed, because the team's ( if they could be called "team" :) ) intention was just getting credits and with a groupwork it is kindda "guaranteed".
For this moment, my conclusion about groupwork within academic process is negative. Groupwork can be effective if the group forms naturally by co-thinker members (?), not assigned by professor randomly.
I like the group work. Because when you do not understand something, these are the other members who can help you.
Yeah, they can help, when you don't know and etc. but the point is that they (teachers) encourage you to make all he assignments with group, helping each other, but on exam you are totally alone. So imagine people who got used to get someone's help all the time and relying to groupmates, he would fail with 99 % certainity and 1 % luck of cheating :)
Arti,
Now, from what you mentioned above, I would not hire you for a job that would require strong interpersonal/communication skills with a cross-functional teamwork environment. Meaning you will have hard time finding A job. Why? Very often responsibilities are inter-dependent in any given company [even within the departments] for many good reasons.
Therefore, group projects are designed to test your ability to work with other people. It's a way to develop one's leadership skills - not in a sense that one leads and the rest of the group are followers. Leaderships is when you have the ability to communicate yourself well to others; ability to listen and accept ideas that significantly differ from yours or new to you; ability to help those who're lagging behind; ability to work with difficult people. That is the bigger purpose of the group projects, not what you mentioned above.
From what I mentioned before carefull reader will assume that I don't LIKE working in groups, not that I CANNOT. So my dislike in this case absolutely doesn't mean that don't have communication or leadership skills. The point here is that as Illusion said:
I, personally, prefer individual projects...The reason is that usually my professor assigns all the "Don't really care" type of people to my group and usually I'm the one who does all the work for others! Not cool....
Same ideas were shared by Tokugava and Laziz_UWED. It sucks to do the main job (especially being leader and knowing that others do not really care or do not know what to do) and get graded for "group work".
P.S. I'll be back after classes with more comments :)
From what I mentioned before carefull reader will assume that I don't LIKE working in groups, not that I CANNOT. So my dislike in this case absolutely doesn't mean that don't have communication or leadership skills.
You do not like it, because you cannot work in groups/teams. Otherwise, there's no reason for you not to like it (Theory of Causality). The rest speaks for itself.
for example? Wanna make sure that you can really beat my imagination.:)
There is nothing wrong with that. Im just telling you based on my own experience. group projects are not that effective as they are perceived to be. And for getting job those skills are NOT needed(or do you think you can actually demonstrate your leadership skills in half an hour:) ), everything you need is to be able to make up a story where you did sth and sth real big has happened.:)
In i-banking you have to do a lot of presentations... You can finish my sentence, cant' you? It's not even about that, more importantly you can have a great idea, but if you don't know how to communicate it well to others, is there any use for it? Also, how do you manage your team if you lack interpersonal skills? Are you going to do the whole job on your own? Guess what, the one who can manage the team effectively will have a significant competitive advantage over you, and will, obviously, be more productive (Ricardian).
Martingale
11-15-2005, 10:29 AM
In i-banking you have to do a lot of presentations...
:) Man you can never beat my imagination if you are limited to only this sentence...
In i-banking you have to do a lot of presentations... You can finish my sentence, cant' you? It's not even about that, more importantly you can have a great idea, but if you don't know how to communicate it well to others, is there any use for it? Also, how do you manage your team if you lack interpersonal skills? Are you going to do the whole job on your own? Guess what, the one who can manage the team effectively will have a significant competitive advantage over you, and will, obviously, be more productive (Ricardian).
But WASP, you are missing one important point in your assumtions. Group projects are not the only way of gaining those leadership skills. There are tons of extracurricluars through which you can get those skills. Actually if you start acting like a leader in a group project, you might not always get positive impressions from your group members.
:) Man you can never beat my imagination if you are limited to only this sentence...
But WASP, you are missing one important point in your assumtions. Group projects are not the only way of gaining those leadership skills. There are tons of extracurricluars through which you can get those skills. Actually if you start acting like a leader in a group project, you might not always get positive impressions from your group members.
I was not trying to impress you with my knowledge about i-banking. I proved my point, that's all I wanted to do. I am not here to discuss i-banking.
If you look back to my previous posts, you will see that leadership skills do not mean one leads the rest of the group. Leadership is different (see my posts in the previous page). You shall first, therefore, understand the difference between leadership and a leader.
You don't have to tell me what one can do to gain leadership skills, this topic isn't about that. It's about whether group projects are useful or not. All I was saying there's a bigger, much bigger, reason why universities want their students to be involved in group projects. And if you aren't good at it, you need to work on your interpersonal skills. If you can't handle group projects, the problem is you, not the "game."
Martingale
11-15-2005, 10:52 AM
I was not trying to impress you with my knowledge about i-banking. I proved my point, that's all I wanted to do. I am not here to discuss i-banking.
If you look back to my previous posts, you will notice that I said leadership skills do not mean one lead the rest of the group follows. Leadership is different (see my posts in the previous page). You shall first, therefore, understand the difference between leadership and a leader.
You don't have to tell me what one can do to gain leadership skills, this topic isn't about that. It's about whether group projects are useful or not. Also, I never stated anything that would imply more efficiency in teamwork; all I was saying there's a bigger, much bigger, reason why universities want their students to be involved in group projects. And if you aren't good at, you better work on your interpersonal skills. If you can't handle group projects, the problem is you, not the "game."
Well, if you can't impress, then don't claim that you know more than I could imagine. You never know how broad my imagination is. Anyways back to the topic. Ok, what is leadership then if not leading? Comm. skills? Interpersonal skills? Aren't you speech communiacation major by any chance?:rolleyes:
I agree with that universities stress much on group projects and there is nothing outrageous about it. However, I still stick to my opinion that for me independent study is better than a group project and the reason has nothing to do with my interpersonal skills.
Well, if you can't impress, then don't claim that you know more than I could imagine. You never know how broad my imagination is. Anyways back to the topic. Ok, what is leadership then if not leading? Comm. skills? Interpersonal skills? Aren't you speech communiacation major by any chance?:rolleyes:
I agree with that universities stress much on group projects and there is nothing outrageous about it. However, I still stick to my opinion that for me independent study is better than a group project and the reason has nothing to do with my interpersonal skills.
I did not say, I cannot impress. I am sure I can. Overall, I don't think you get it. So be it, independent study is better! Forget about what I said above...
Martingale
11-15-2005, 11:01 AM
In i-banking you have to do a lot of presentations... You can finish my sentence, cant' you? It's not even about that, more importantly you can have a great idea, but if you don't know how to communicate it well to others, is there any use for it? Also, how do you manage your team if you lack interpersonal skills? Are you going to do the whole job on your own? Guess what, the one who can manage the team effectively will have a significant competitive advantage over you, and will, obviously, be more productive (Ricardian).
BTW, Ricardian theory is not about competitive advantage, it's about comparative advantage and it has nothing to do with what you are trying to explain here. Know basics first.
Though it's so lame for a person, who is claiming to know much things on IB to refer to Ricardo(Economics sux!:lol: ). Gimme quotes from Sharpe, Graham etc:lol:
Martingale
11-15-2005, 11:07 AM
I did not say, I cannot impress. I am sure I can. Overall, I don't think you get it. So be it, independent study is better! Forget about what I said above...
WASP, Im not trying to say that Group Projects are worse than independent study. All I told was I did not enjoy my experience with group projects and would prefer to work alone for assignments (only!!!). of course, in real life you gotta work in a team environment. but you started to make assumtions that we lack of interpersonal skills. believe me, the things that worked with you may not be always appealing to others. keep that in mind.
BTW, Ricardian theory is not about competitive advantage, it's about comparative advantage and it has nothing to do what you are trying to explain here. Know basics first.
Though it's such a lame for a person, who is claiming to know much things on IB to refer to Ricardo(Economics sux!:lol: ). Gimme quotes from Sharpe, Graham etc:lol:
I referred to the Ricardian theory implying that managing resources (in Ricardian theory it's only labor) effectively is very important, which is a team (labor) in the above statement. Stay sharp. You're losing it.
You are making silly remarks about Economics.
Martingale
11-15-2005, 11:18 AM
I referred to the Ricardian theory implying that managing resources (in Ricardian theory it's only labor) effectively is very important, which is a team (labor) in the above statement. Stay sharp. You're losing it.
You are making silly remarks about Economics.
You are blurring :yes:
don't take it serious, but it takes some time to understand that econ is not as good as you expected it to be. No intrinsic value.:)
You do not like it, because you cannot work in groups/teams. Otherwise, there's no reason for you not to like it (Theory of Causality). The rest speaks for itself.
I see your wide knowledge of theories could not help you at all to determine the possible reasons why people do not like working in groups at the education stage. If you had any experience working in different groups, usually assigned by the principles rather than choosing your own "pals" you could have seen that there will always be group members lacking the knowledge for contribution. A simple logic can lead to an assuption that freeriders love working in groups because the other part (volunteers) had to do all the work.
And another thing, your posts with those descriptions of perfect leader and advantages of group work are very much theory based and pretty far from practice (reality, experience).
Amiri Turkiston
11-16-2005, 09:58 AM
manga ko'proq individual work yoqasi
chunki unda manga faqat o'zimning kuchimga ishonaman
I wonder, if there is still no votes for group work, does it mean that according to WASP all respondents are anti-social, not posessing leadership and communication skills?
Arti,
You need to get your messages straight. In your opening post you start talking about group work and then rapidly shift to study habits. In any case, I stated my opinion; you either disagree and prove the otherwise or accept it. However, you are, proving the lack of interpersonal skills, being overly defensive and provocative. Now, I noticed that you are also unable to handle criticism properly.
Also, open your eyes wider and take a look at the poll, which suggests that an equal amount of people prefer "Combined system."
P.S. The lack of communication skills can be seen throughout forum.
Arti,
You need to get your messages straight. In your opening post you start talking about group work and then rapidly shift to study habits.
If you were a careful reader with eyes wide open, you would've noticed that in this thread I proposed to discuss the group work AS study technique or study habit if you want. So the one who is shifting is probably you. May be it is you who has problems with getting others' messages and understanding them? Why don't you read the thread title again?
In any case, I stated my opinion; you either disagree and prove the otherwise or accept it. .
Seems like you read only your own posts. I disagreed with you by stating it in my opening thread and added some later so need to re-prove it by just answering to each and every post of yours.
However, you are, proving the lack of interpersonal skills, being overly defensive and provocative. Now, I noticed that you are also unable to handle criticism properly.
Now why don't you re-address these words to yourself since they suit you best according to your aggressive and too-work-group-protective posts. Moreover I wouldn't call love for free riding and lack of individual potential as criticism.
Also, open your eyes wider and take a look at the poll, which suggests that an equal amount of people prefer "Combined system."
Well, you are claiming to posess strong interpersonal, communication and leadership skills, however your posts are lacking politeness or simple professional ethics.
And don't you think that votes for combined system (including partial preferences for individual work) and votes for individual work in the poll represent a majority in comparison with no votes for group work. Now, this means that even on this forum (which according to you lacks communication) there are more potential leaders, who doesn't like relying and depending on others or making their business by hands of group mates.
Cheers,
Arti
I think majority of forum members had or has the opportunity to compare our (soviet, post-soviet) way of education and western one. One of distinguishing features of the last one is group work, whereas we got used to more indivuduallistic approach. It is interesting to know your opinion on whether you like the group work or no.
First off, let me make this clear to you: group work/project and group study are totally different. Secondly, at high, middle and elementary level students very rarely study/work in groups. Your generalizations are irresponsible. Besides, I studied in groups for my State exams back in School in Tashkent. So again, you are not being very diligent about what you are saying.
As for my personal opinion, then I would say that group work reduces the responsibility of each group member and gives them sometimes the opportunity to "hide" behind other's back. There are a lot of "free riders" in group work.
Exactly what are you talking about? Group study or group work? Since you mentioned in the name of your topic "Studying techniques," I am going to assume you are talking about group study. If that's the case, this whole thing becomes even more confusing. In group study, it's technically impossible to have "free riders." Essentially, group study is designed to assist students in absorbing information more efficiently and doing well on the exams. So if someone is skipping the group study sessions, they are only harming themselves. I am totally confused about "hide behind other's back"... so I am not even going to comment on that.
It doesn't give the opportunity to express your own point of view or show your own abilities or skills, unless you are strong leader and was able to argue for each of your suggestions and leave them in the final report as they were originally suggested by you.
Are we talking about studying techniques here??? It seems as if you are talking about group projects in this paragraph. Besides, strong leader is not the one argues for each of his/her suggestions... it's usually the outspoken person. That statement only proves you lack any soft skills whatsoever. If your group members don't like what you are suggesting, then it's probably true (especially given your attitude throughout this topic) that the problem is your suggestions.
If people work in group it is not that big challenge any more, at least for each of them.
Group work is not challenging? You must be kidding. While it may ease some part of it, the most important aspects of group work/study is that you get immediate feedback to what you have to say. It also makes ideas more creative. Ex. Developing marketing strategies includes brainstorming in groups, because different people have different backgrounds and that certainly helps a lot.
And the thing that annoys me the most is that just because one of your group member appears to be dumb, others have a big "chance" to get a bad grade at the end (unless you volunteer to do the final "make-up" on your own, to avoid mistakes and etc.).
What is even "appears to be dumb" mean? Where is the line? You are the one who has some serious ethical issues! There maybe people who are not eager to work as hard as others in the group, but calling one dumb is a bit radical of you. The difference between a success and failure is the ability to work with difficult people. There are always difficult customers/clients/bosses etc. If you can handle them, you can handle anything. If not being able to deal with a difficult student to work on some project gives you so much headache, you better keep yourself off the streets.
So even though people here say that group work creates a "real" environment, as leaving the school you most likely gonna work among other people, in teams and won't be able to have an individual approach to every single thing, I think that it all depends on personality and it doesn't matter whether you have spent all your college time working in groups or studying on your own and making own projects. Another point is that teachers make their life easier reducing the number of works they have to check (it was an honest confession of one of them), where in group of twenty instead of checking 20 works or reading and analyzing 20 reports they can do it for 4 groups of 5 members.
Above statements are so contradicting, or so it appears to me. I cannot comment on this one, because I was unable to decipher the points in this paragraph. Learn to speak to the points....
I have to admit that it is good to have a group work experience, but at least this work shouldn't be graded, just for experience, regular assignment. Hope that I made it clear :) Now the floor is yours.
Ok, so I think you are talking about group work/projects. What does studying techniques have to do with this? It's a different topic. I have already discussed the purpose of group projects/work. If you are interested, you are welcome to read them.
Martingale
11-18-2005, 07:59 PM
...You are the one who has some serious ethical issues!
...Above statements are so contradicting, or so it appears to me. I cannot comment on this one, because I was unable to decipher the points in this paragraph. Learn to speak to the points....
At least, she is handling well to defend her position more persuasively...can't stand hypocritical individuals... just found out one interesting feature of the polls on this board. If you click on the number of votes, it shows who voted for which option. :)
WASP, don't bother yourself trying to come up with sth to justify this, (cause I don't care:) ) but please don't turn this thread into "I know the most, I am da best" kind of thread.
At least, she is handling well to defend her position more persuasively...can't stand hypocritical individuals... just found out one interesting feature of the polls on this board. If you click on the number of votes, it shows who voted for which option. :)
WASP, don't bother yourself trying to come up with sth to justify this, (cause I don't care:) ) but please don't turn this thread into "I know the most, I am da best" kind of thread.
I do prefer to study on my own. I voted before I even read what she had to say in her opening statement, where she talks about group work or study and everything all together. Besides, who are you to decide who's handling his/her position better? First, learn to carry out a decent debate by avoiding cheap and pointless remarks.
Also, I don't get those comments: "I know the most, I am da best." A similar comment was made by Arti about me having great leadership, interpersonal and comm. skills. As far as I remember I never made those statements on this thread. I conclude that it's the judgment you are making about me based on my replies. I can only thank you, but the way I am learning about your judgments only leaves me to say: "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."
As a matter of fact, I am the team leader in the group project for one of my business classes, and I had to deal with a guy who would not show up for the meetings. Just that you know that it's not the perfect experience makes me endorse group work/projects, but the experience itself.
Well, well, well. This is more confusing than I thought because it comes out that all this time you were fighting not even knowing what I am talking about. But why don't you ask first and then post your ideas? Do you act first and think next? Then let me make it all very and very clear for you, even though I did not think that it is necessary.
First off, let me make this clear to you: group work/project and group study are totally different.
Before making it clear to me, make it clear to yourself. If you read the title of this tread you will see the phrase "study techniques". This means that further on the discussion is going to be about STUDY, STUDENTS, UNIVERSITIES, COLLEGES, EDUCATION etc. Then, after colon I gave two (of million other possible) types of study techniques (as they are desribed by our teachers/professors), which I was going to discuss or concentrate on, i.e. group work and individual work (or approach). Further if you go to the opening post and read it thoroughly you will find out that I compare two different approaches to the education chosen by former USSR countries and Western countries respectively. It was not common in our old education system to give students group assignments. You usually had to do all the "referat", "kursovaya", "seminar" and similar stuff on your own. And whatever report of that kind you make you usualy had only your own name on it. Whereas in Europe and USA they frequently use other technique. The course is split up into groups of 3-4-5 students (usually you are not allowed to choose group mates as they are assigned by professor) and they are given a certain assignment. These 3-4-5 students have to work together and produce one result (research, report, etc.). Later on, after short discussion of the work done with professor, the group work (or the product of the group work if you want) is graded. In this case each group member gets same grade as another and it doesn't matter how much did he or did he not contribute to the final result.
I will bring you two group work assignments as examples to avoid any possible misunderstanding. In Muldimedia Design course a group of students has to make on web site for a travel company as well as to write a report describing the work done. Now do you still think that it is impossible to be a free rider here? Do you think that all 5 students will equally contribute to the construction of this site? Do you think that all of them deserve the same grade even though there was only one student who actully made a design and another, who wrote a report?
Now second example. Business Stastistics class. A group is given 3 exercises to solve. In this case you also don't see any possibility for free riding?
Exactly what are you talking about? Group study or group work? Since you mentioned in the name of your topic "Studying techniques," I am going to assume you are talking about group study. If that's the case, this whole thing becomes even more confusing. In group study, it's technically impossible to have "free riders." Essentially, group study is designed to assist students in absorbing information more efficiently and doing well on the exams. So if someone is skipping the group study sessions, they are only harming themselves. I am totally confused about "hide behind other's back"... so I am not even going to comment on that.
No, I am not talking about group study!!! I have nothing against the case when some students gather after school and discuss some issues, which they did not understand during classes. Of course there are always people who understood it better and who can explain it to others. And again, in my opening post I said that I am against group assignments which are graded, when this grade becomes a part of your examination grade. It is ok, when they give just a regular exercise and encourage you to do it in group. Then you get more experience, you get other points of view, you exchange ideas and etc. And yes, in this case there are only positive sides of the group work.
Ok, so I think you are talking about group work/projects. What does studying techniques have to do with this? It's a different topic. I have already discussed the purpose of group projects/work. If you are interested, you are welcome to read them.
Group work/project is studying technique from the point of view of teachers/professors. They say that giving us group assignments they create a "realistic environment" for us. But then, they should not grade this work. Because when you have one research or report, you cannot evaluate how much each group member have contributed to the work. DO YOU GET MY POINT? I am not talking about techniques one chooses for himself in order to absorb education material in a best way. I think now I understand why you were confused. We were actually talking about same stuff but calling it differently.
"better keep yourself off the streets", "you need to work on your interpersonal skills", "You need to get your messages straight", "learn to carry out a decent debate by avoiding cheap and pointless remarks", "speak to the point"
And this is not all. I could've continued quoting you. Don't you think that you advise too much and teach people what to do? At the same time you don't follow your own instructions. And it is not only that you teach others, but you also make it in a very rude way. Haven't you thought that it can be annoying? You offer others to "learn to carry out a decent debate by avoiding cheap and pointless remarks" and "to handle criticism properly" and at the same time when Laziz_UWED told something not in your favor you shift to personal assult saying "who are you to decide who's handling his/her position better". Isn't it inability to handle criticism? It was his point of view, "you either agree or disagree and prove it". You don't like to be judged according to your posts, but you do it yourself almost always. Your "cheap" comments such as "you would have difficulties with finding job", "keep yourself off the streets" and similar do not make any honor to you. I don't need your advice. Saying that I don't like group assignments I did not say that I cannot work in group. The one who understands the difference between these statements will not have problems understanding my points.
Martingale
11-19-2005, 07:42 PM
It's useless to discuss sth with you, cause you think you know more than others do and your opinion is always right. Although not straightforward, but you are implicitly expressing that in your comments making judgements on people as if you are the one who are entitled to do so. But the truth is YOU ARE NOT. Don't tell me that I lack of some skills, if I do and really need your assistance(let's just imagine for the moment:) ), I will let ya know. And I see that all your group projects did not teach you sth very important. Manners!
BTW, imagine that 3 of us in a group. Guess who would have problems with interpersonal skills.:)
p.s. I've noticed that you are very quick to make assumptions about people not having enough information about them.
p.p.s. Leader is not the one of words, it's the one of action.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.