Anyone doing a Ph.D. in economics?

[mif]

Has anybody succeeded in gaining admission to a Ph.D. program in econonmics or business? What can you advise to those who are planning to apply? What do you think helped you?

[mif]

cho?... nikogo? :(

[Sarahjon]

Hi,
there is a huge gap between undergrad and grad level econ programs. you really have to take time for prior math preparation, if you want to suceed in the program. also, your success depends on the drop-out rate at your school. some toughest schools accept applicants but then reduce the size of the class by about 60-70% - this is the hardest case - and so only the strongest mathematically do survive; the rest either gain masters or pick up their losses. if you choose a softer-line school, the rate may be lower. so, do your research and based on your skills, pick the right school.

also, i remember there was a thread here on some uzb guy who already gained his ohd from either harvard or yale.

what else? schools care about your gre math and analytical scores. if you have a contact professor to back-up your application, that would raise your chances of getting in. if you are in hard-line schools - be ready for only-work-and-study schedule until you pass comprehensive exams. if you gain a phd, be ready for a 6-digit starting salary, but no need to use all your advanced math knowledge. some math you are gonna use will be a higher level than that used at math departments. oh, and last but not least - just take a look at the textbooks you will use at grad level - you will get the message about the complexity of the program then.

best of luck to you.

[MAJESTY]

Hey,

FYI: First, not pursuing my PhD (yet). Second, doing Master of Public Administration at Columbia University, New York. Third: thinking about PhD in Economics. Last, have been taking PhD Economics classes, related to International economics with Nobel laureates, and top professors (my interests and columbia's no.1. int'l econ. dept.).

Anyway, the classes are not easy, indeed. I have been working with Econ.Dept. professor here and briefly can share some info.

GRE is essential, but not the major criteria(hundreds Chinese students apply with the highest scores possible but only a few get into: that's inhouse talk)
Econ. Dept contact is the VERY important, INDEED!
Recoms. from sound Econ. Profs would elevate your applc.
Prior publications and strong GPAs

Anyway, there are many ways to get into PhD. You need to define what level of programs you are interested and can pull out. You need to talk to ppl who are almost there (starting from strong base) and PhD Econ. studs. If you are strongly interested in top Econ. programs in international economics, I may give you references of my good freinds who are top Econ. Dep. studs.

Good to hear that Uzbeks are banging the PhD Econ. doors! And don't forget about the strategy! Most of soviet-educated students are brighter than local americans/int'l but have weak strategy and tactics to pursue the goals.

Salomat ila,

-Farkhod

[mif]

Thanx for the replies, but that's not what I meant. I meant, if anybody is doing a Ph.D. in Econ or Business what helped you to get in. I am interested in individual cases of success.

Did you graduate from a math department with distinction? Did your personal contacts in the school you were applying to help you in some way? Did you have a paper published in a journal that has more or less international audience? And so on... What was it that made you stand out from the crowd?... you know...

[mif]

Sarah, you seem to either know some Ph.D. students directly or be one yourself. Can you say anything?

[Samimiy]

Thanx for the replies, but that's not what I meant. I meant, if anybody is doing a Ph.D. in Econ or Business what helped you to get in. I am interested in individual cases of success.

Did you graduate from a math department with distinction? Did your personal contacts in the school you were applying to help you in some way? Did you have a paper published in a journal that has more or less international audience? And so on... What was it that made you stand out from the crowd?... you know...

I am doing a PhD in Business, majoring in Real Estate.
What helped me to get in:
-I did my undergrad. at this school as well. When I was applying, I talked to each of the professors in the department (it's a small department). I think I left a favorable impression.
-My undergraduate GPA from my American school was 3.94. My GPA from my Uzb. school (UWED) was also about the same, but I don't think that matters much.
-My English was good enough, both in terms of TOEFL grades and speaking.
-My GMAT score was 720. I only took it once, that may a factor, as well. Because some people take it multiple times.
-I had good recommendations (I think) from my profs.
-I didn't have a strong technical background (which turned out to be a disadvantage), my major was Marketing.
-I told the profs that after graduation I was planning to stay in the US and apply to academic positions. Because the department's ranking depends in part on their "placements" - where their graduates end up working. In general, you want to tell them what they want to hear.

Mif, you may want to ask Krokobazuka, he's in the Econ. dept at USC, a very good school.

[Amiri Turkiston]

after reading all these info. I'll also start my work on preparation for PhD studies in economics or BA

hope all these recommendations will be enough

tnx a lot

[mif]

Excellent! That's exactly what I wanted. Thanx.

Kroka, you wanna share with us what you think got you in?

P.S.: by the way, Samimiy, where are you at, I mean which school?

[winni]

Hi ,
Well u can do your Phd in economics it is not as hard as u think but requires a lot of comitment! First, of all you have to understand that at PHD level supervisors matter a lot, hence the good strategy is to choose a couple of schools u think are good for u , say if you want to do macro choose schools with good macro dept. . Then send emails and try arrange supervisor befor u actually apply ( simply look at list of profs at university web site and pick the one which suits u most), in many cases uzbekistan is underrepresented and they are usually interested to look at your CV and research proposal. Compile good research proposal, it is not necessary mean that u will do it for your degree but it has to signal how smart u are and leave a good impression:D . If they like u they offer u to apply , which is de facto almost 80 % that u are going to be accepted, and then in application just mention that u need some financial help. Well, it worked for me:D Got some money and PHD in economics , now doing 2 year:) Need more info just ask:)

[krokobazuka]

Don't waste your life :) Unless you love abstraction from real life.

:P

I got in with 3.9 GPA / 420/780/800 GRE (took it once and didn't bother retaking) - got into UNC, Vanderbilt, fUCLA (little scholarship), Emory and USC - went to USC, but I am not liking the program too much - I am more interested in Political Economy and they are shutting down that direction

[anchio]

People i have a concern
i have marketing BA. now i am doing design MA. in future what fields are open to apply for PHD? with this background, what phd can i possibly apply?

peace
Don't waste your life :) Unless you love abstraction from real life.

:P

I got in with 3.9 GPA / 420/780/800 GRE (took it once and didn't bother retaking) - got into UNC, Vanderbilt, fUCLA (little scholarship), Emory and USC - went to USC, but I am not liking the program too much - I am more interested in Political Economy and they are shutting down that direction[/quote]

[MyMoon]

People I have a concern...

If you did great in all your marketing classes PhD in Marketing would probably a more or less safe bet for you, however, you current major does not make much of a difference for PhD programs. If you apply to any PhD programs in business related fields or economics the admission people will probably want to see strong mathematical background.

Check out the attached file that a friend of mine sent me some time ago. I think he got it off the web and I guess you can find the website if you search thru Google or any other popular search engine.

[Shambles]

Anyone doing PhD in Europe??? Coz it's a slightly different thing...

[anatoliydaev]

Do not do PhD in agricultural economics. It sucks. 15 hours every day for a year with the model validation. And do not do PhD in Germany, there is a lack of tutors.

[anchio]

folks,
i was thinking about phd in marketing. but the thing is i have 75% performance from BA marketing, and up to now somewhere 85% performance in MS product design. which univs do i have better chances to get enrolled considering i will do good on GMAT, and TOEFL and the rest. if i do good on rest of the requirements, might it be OK? i appreciate those ideas that are based on facts.

[himalay]

I have got a couple of questions to:

Samimiy, Sarahjon and all others that are/were enrolled as PhD students at one time -

Could you give a bit of rough idea about how many modules and how many hours a week you would be required to do at a normal PhD course? Sorry cannot specify the particular university, because the universities I have applied are spread around all North America and Europe ( But not England,
Master's level is enough from here I assume).

My background is marketing. My work experience includes mainly that in the private sector. Yet I want to apply, obviously in this case I would need to convince the professors strongly that it is me whom they should admit. So, Research Proposal, Statement of Purpose if needed, will essentially need to be excellent. I realise it and working on it.

But, the whole point is, without any scary, "don't get in - it is too hard to get on" comments, what are chances of me catching up with Maths modules after some 6 years of break in my math training ? I think I will to bias myself up with the notion that we are superior to any other students applying to the same subjects, due to the nature of my position at the moment :), it may or may not be the same indeed. It is just a little moral support for myself.... (as I think Farkhod has been stating here).

Anyways, all the best luck and THANKS a lot for any replies posted here !!!!

M.B.

[furik]

I have got a couple of questions to:

Samimiy, Sarahjon and all others that are/were enrolled as PhD students at one time -

Could you give a bit of rough idea about how many modules and how many hours a week you would be required to do at a normal PhD course? Sorry cannot specify the particular university, because the universities I have applied are spread around all North America and Europe ( But not England,
Master's level is enough from here I assume).

My background is marketing. My work experience includes mainly that in the private sector. Yet I want to apply, obviously in this case I would need to convince the professors strongly that it is me whom they should admit. So, Research Proposal, Statement of Purpose if needed, will essentially need to be excellent. I realise it and working on it.

But, the whole point is, without any scary, "don't get in - it is too hard to get on" comments, what are chances of me catching up with Maths modules after some 6 years of break in my math training ? I think I will to bias myself up with the notion that we are superior to any other students applying to the same subjects, due to the nature of my position at the moment :), it may or may not be the same indeed. It is just a little moral support for myself.... (as I think Farkhod has been stating here).

Anyways, all the best luck and THANKS a lot for any replies posted here !!!!

M.B.

I am doing PhD in ag.econ in major U.S. university. This is my fourth year, I passed my quals, and if things will go as I plan, I should be able to graduate this year. Looking back at four years I can tell following.
Math is VERY important! Forget about requirements listed by school, they ask for a course in probability, multivariable calc, that is not enough. See, in the last 40 50 years economic theory has essentially become application of real analysis. Also, since econometrics is a major research tool, the mathematical statistics is very important too. Not to mention game theory. If you want to be comfortable with classes (and I mean not to freak out before exam) you need at least one year of math.statistics, and one year of real analysis, on undegrad level. Prepare to spent couple of years deriving forumulas and staring at the screen 7 days a week, no weekend, breaks, or social life.
Also, don't think I am smart I can figure it out. EVERYONE is smart at PhD and people drop out of the program like flies. One of my classmate is winner of Chinese math olympiad, so there will always be someone smarter.
The good news is good math skills are important but ability to write and publish is also important. Publishing, articles are what grad school is all about. This usually requires different set of skills and often research is more important than course work. So if you have good writting skills and show initiative, the department will help you.
I read somewhere that only 50% of PhD students graduate (across degress). It's hard and it's not for everyone. But I personally enjoy it, plus in U.S. PhD in economics usually pays off, so you can consider it as investment.

[Samimiy]

I have got a couple of questions to:

Samimiy, Sarahjon and all others that are/were enrolled as PhD students at one time -

Could you give a bit of rough idea about how many modules and how many hours a week you would be required to do at a normal PhD course? Sorry cannot specify the particular university, because the universities I have applied are spread around all North America and Europe ( But not England,
Master's level is enough from here I assume).

My background is marketing. My work experience includes mainly that in the private sector. Yet I want to apply, obviously in this case I would need to convince the professors strongly that it is me whom they should admit. So, Research Proposal, Statement of Purpose if needed, will essentially need to be excellent. I realise it and working on it.

But, the whole point is, without any scary, "don't get in - it is too hard to get on" comments, what are chances of me catching up with Maths modules after some 6 years of break in my math training ? I think I will to bias myself up with the notion that we are superior to any other students applying to the same subjects, due to the nature of my position at the moment :), it may or may not be the same indeed. It is just a little moral support for myself.... (as I think Farkhod has been stating here).

Anyways, all the best luck and THANKS a lot for any replies posted here !!!!

M.B.

I basically agree with furik, in the sense that mainstream economics has become "applied math". Econ. PhD programs make a lot of emphasis on quantitative skills, so noweadays you need to be a good mathematician to be a good economist. Not all people are happy with this, I know people who have left their PhD programs because there's not enough "economics" and too much math. It's not because they couldn't do math, but because they didn't like the general direction of the program.

Now that doesn't mean you need a degree in math to do a phD in Econ, either. The amount of math/stat/econometrics required may vary from one school to another.

I think the important thing is not to just get accepted, but to be successful in the program in the long run. So you need to be prepared. My undergrad major was Marketing, too. I can tell you that at least for American universities, the math you learn as a Marketing major is definitely not enough to be successful in an Econ phD program. For me it wasn't enough, so I have struggled mightily in my Game theory courses. You will do yourself a big favor by taking courses in the subjects furik mentioned. This will help you in the application process as well. It's much better to say: "I know I don't have a strong enough Math background, but I am taking courses to prepare myself" than to say "My major was Marketing, so I didn't take a lot of math courses in college".

It is also true that some schools' curriculum may be self-sufficient, so if you just take their courses, you can expect to do well. But the courses are usually designed with the average student in mind, and a lot of your peers will know a lot more than required. You don't want to fall behind. Better to work now than to struggle later.

As far as the assistantships are concerned, most schools will offer you one with they accept you for PhD. I think the only case when they don't offer an assistantship is when they don't consider you a good candidate. In other words you are good enough to get your degree only if you pay your way through. But I can tell you if you are accepted to a few schools, at least one will offer you an assistantship.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[anatoliydaev]

Agree with what furik wrote.

I am completing PhD in agricultural economics in Germany. And I can say "it is very difficult, hell work. There is a huge gap between Uzbek MSc and German PhD."

- First of all you will have to be very strong in math (such as reading matrix notations and be good to transfer the formulas atleast to Excel). For the beginning you will need Alpha Chang and Sydsaeter's both books.
- Then very good knowledge in Microeconomics (start with Varian microeconomics). Then for empirical part and analysis you will have to apply model. Here you can go for Econometrics (Gugaratti level of econometrics is taught for 2 weeks and then you will only reffer to Greene's Econometrics textbook).
The next option for modelling will be math programming (starting with McCarl and Hazell books). If you confident in econometrics and math programming you can use both for your study (calibrastion of demand elasticities, estimation of LES and AIDS).

- Finally you will have to learn software because Excel is not enough (in germany you will for sure use SPSS and STATA (each Uni has a license) and perhaps you will have to buy a license for GAMS (if you go for large modeling).

And you will have to sacrifice a lot and sit next to your monitor concentrated 10 hours a day. Also you will have to read a lot (mostly articles).

The worst thing in Germany is that professors do not care and sometimes students even do not have tutors, so a person should rely only on himself.

Samimiy, salom!

[himalay]

Samimiy, Furik, Anatoliy,

thanks a lot for realistic statements/description.

Obviously I realise the strugglesomeness of the mission. And I think, nevertheless, I will stay in my mind, decision. The main thing, at this time, concerns whether they are going to give me offer or not. MSc here wasn't any easier either, but it was only for one year.

As for specific modules and subjects: I always maths was a part of my set of competences. Although I didn't have to use my full potential and obviously didn't train my skills properly for the last 4-5 years, I think I can catch up eventually. It is going to be a matter of time.

They dismissed my MSc in Marketing, probably it is too far in a wrong direction for PhD in Economics. They decided to wait for my submission of the verified copies and translations of my transcripts from my undergraduate level (yet from Tashkent). So I am waiting for them to be sent to me in turn.

Samimiy, Furik, Anatoliy, I stil have got a few questions:

1. How many of those more or less economic modules did you have for each of the course?

2. Why research is going to have priority over modules ? Does it mean that if you fail a module, they give you chance to resit the exam or even retake the whole module ?

3. How many modules did you have as a whole per semester?

By the way, obviously I realise I won't be any different than the rest of the students, but it is just a psychological support for myself. We all go with the stream and act as it dictates. Perhaps, the idea of existence of spiritual roots of human competence is indeed in place. So, perhaps we all change our attitudes as we go and as our positions change.

Well, thanks a lot, for previous and future postings. And I'll gladly read all the advises our elderlies can give to us...

meanwhile, all the best luck

M.B.

[abcd]

Himalay do you plan to do PhD in USA or somewhere else? If yes, what is GRE or GMAT scores?

[himalay]

Himalay do you plan to do PhD in USA or somewhere else? If yes, what is GRE or GMAT scores?

I applied to 2 Canadian Universities, 1 French and 1 German University, 1 in USA, as GRE allows you.

My GRE will come through soon, within the next couple of weeks.

By the way, question right spot on, what are the normal, average score the university would expect one to have?

Thanks a lor for a reply

M.B

[abcd]

Himalay I also applied for several universities this year and already got unofficial acceptance from one of them. Typically they don't look to verbal section and more interested with quantitative, at least thats what is written on their websites. The higher the scores the higher the chances I guess. But for most unis in USA the deadline for fall admission is already passed. I am not sure about german, french and canadian whether they give RA and TA but US universities certainly do. So why not to wait one year get GMAT, GRE and then give a shot. BTW US universities require GMAT for marketing IMHO.

P.S. Most probably I will not do PhD this year and defer it for the next year.

[himalay]

Himalay I also applied for several universities this year and already got unofficial acceptance from one of them. Typically they don't look to verbal section and more interested with quantitative, at least thats what is written on their websites. The higher the scores the higher the chances I guess. But for most unis in USA the deadline for fall admission is already passed. I am not sure about german, french and canadian whether they give RA and TA but US universities certainly do. So why not to wait one year get GMAT, GRE and then give a shot. BTW US universities require GMAT for marketing IMHO.

P.S. Most probably I will not do PhD this year and defer it for the next year.

hm, I don't know exactly, let's wait for official results of the GRE. U of Alberta in Canada, they say, does offer TA and RA. Concordia, what's good about it is that, offers flexble intake terms (a few times a year). So, they have January intake as well, once I submit it online, it will match it with the next intake deadline. Also, Concordia has a lot more scholarships available than U of Alberta.

Well, normally their requirements for PhD candidates also incluide having a set of subjects in their background, comprising equivalents of those of their own: so for me to be able to major in Economics, my bacground should be able to produce say, 300 credits consisting of a sum of respective weights (i.e. credits) of economic subjects (converted into equivalents of theirs). So, if my credits derived from my economic subjects will equal to that of their students' majoring in economics, they'll be ok to accept me into PhD in Economics as someone with BSc in Economics. I think with the abundance of subjects in Uzbekistani Higher Education Institutions, we shouldn't have a problem of that nature :).

Best of the luck meanwhile..
M.B>

[himalay]

Himalay I also applied for several universities this year and already got unofficial acceptance from one of them. Typically they don't look to verbal section and more interested with quantitative, at least thats what is written on their websites. The higher the scores the higher the chances I guess. But for most unis in USA the deadline for fall admission is already passed. I am not sure about german, french and canadian whether they give RA and TA but US universities certainly do. So why not to wait one year get GMAT, GRE and then give a shot. BTW US universities require GMAT for marketing IMHO.

P.S. Most probably I will not do PhD this year and defer it for the next year.

By the way, Razorback,

accept my sincere congratulations with acceptance !!!!! :up: :up: :thumbs: :thumbs:

[abcd]

Was it paper based GRE then? Because I got my results immediately once I finished exam. And also why do you want to do PhD in economics if you are in marketing? Because AFAIK there are more scholarship opportunities in DBA compare to PhD in econ.

[himalay]

Was it paper based GRE then? Because I got my results immediately once I finished exam. And also why do you want to do PhD in economics if you are in marketing? Because AFAIK there are more scholarship opportunities in DBA compare to PhD in econ.

Well, I am interested myself in PhD in Economics.

[anchio]

guys,
i wanna share real cases also as for phd. a friend of me recently got into 7 places out of 15 applied. phd in economics. now he is planning to go to harvard, which is one of the 7 accepted. the guy did 300 on toefl, very good on gre, and high gpa also.

[himalay]

Could someone give the average GRE for quantitative and verbal parts. I mean analytical part excluded ?

thanks a lot in advance

M.B>

[anchio]

i am sorry i dont know exactly how much , but he says he screwed the verbal part, so i think he did well on quantitative.

[himalay]

i am sorry i dont know exactly how much , but he says he screwed the verbal part, so i think he did well on quantitative.

this is the usual case for most students ...

Let's see the results first.

[himalay]

Agree with what others said before. Indeed Ph.D. in economics and other related areas are applied math nowadays. Obviously, you will take 3 courses each term. Those courses are pretty much standard for all doctoral programs in economics. You have to pass those courses in first take. You cannot count on retaking them. Btw, in doctoral programs you will get credit only for grades B or above, and B is considered not so good.
About GRE: For top Ph.D. programs in economics a quantitative score of 780 or above is required. Do not worry much about verbal, 500 or above is okay for internationals.

I think I will mainly have trouble with verbal part of it.
Let's wait for the official results. Well, test taking techniques turned out to be key, as I found out later on.

CAT - Computer adaptive test, would mean that computer would place questions depending on your current performance. So, early questions would be used for big jumps and rough orientation in the level of appropriate skills and late ones would mainly be used for fine tuning of the overall score.

I think I would have to retake my GRE later in the spring again. At least I will know that earlier questions are more important.

Best of the luck

Thanks a lot Hopeful
M.B.

[anatoliydaev]

1. How many of those more or less economic modules did you have for each of the course?

2. Why research is going to have priority over modules ? Does it mean that if you fail a module, they give you chance to resit the exam or even retake the whole module ?

3. How many modules did you have as a whole per semester?


Answers:
1) In Bonn I took I 2-month course with 4 separate modules: Econometrics (1 month), Microeconomics (2 weeks - health and household economics), Macroeconomics (CGE modelling - 2 weeks), Enviromental economics ("North - South" thigns - 1 week).

2) I took only two exams. One - complete econometrics and another one with Micro, micro- and enviromental economics. Each of the module will be scored separately. In case you fail you have next reexamination in a month. Your acceptance to the faculty will depend on the scores, but the faculty can aslo request your proposal (depends on your professor). So basically you spend first year for these courses and for writing a research proposal.

3) In my case there was only these courses which took about 2 month and then one exam. There were no any courses and exams. But I had to search myself a courses in Uni (in English) to take (without exam, only as a visitor).

PhD is about learning and research, where priority is given to the research.

Good luck. In case of interest check my Journal in the forum.

[himalay]

Answers:
1) In Bonn I took I 2-month course with 4 separate modules: Econometrics (1 month), Microeconomics (2 weeks - health and household economics), Macroeconomics (CGE modelling - 2 weeks), Enviromental economics ("North - South" thigns - 1 week).

2) I took only two exams. One - complete econometrics and another one with Micro, micro- and enviromental economics. Each of the module will be scored separately. In case you fail you have next reexamination in a month. Your acceptance to the faculty will depend on the scores, but the faculty can aslo request your proposal (depends on your professor). So basically you spend first year for these courses and for writing a research proposal.

3) In my case there was only these courses which took about 2 month and then one exam. There were no any courses and exams. But I had to search myself a courses in Uni (in English) to take (without exam, only as a visitor).

PhD is about learning and research, where priority is given to the research.

Good luck. In case of interest check my Journal in the forum.

Hmm, something unique. I mean you had been pretty much like a visitor for the first year. Although I should admit, it is not much different from MPhils around here, in UK. The only difference is that they also emphasize on Research Methods (module) as well.

By the way, one of the unis I applied to is in Germany. But I didn't contact anybody there yet. So I assume that unless they get very interested in my background and in my proposal (which in my opinion is hardly possible :) ), it is a dead application. I just didn't have enough time to prepare all necessary documents for all of them and also to find right contacts there. So, I decided to go with niche.

Well, my only concern is about being admitted at the moment. Let's see it first...

Thanks a lot Anatoliy, I'll let you know guys what is going on...

M.B>

[Martingale]

furik, which major university in US you are doing your phd at? if not secret.:)

[anatoliydaev]

Hmm, something unique. I mean you had been pretty much like a visitor for the first year.

It is very common for PhD here in Germany. Good luck with applications.

A.D.

[himalay]

Thanks a lot Anatoliy,

Laziz, in USA - SC, but again, I am only now reviewing the works of faculty staff. So, I will have to find the right person to contact. Although the processes of revision should have already started.

My main emphasis is on two universities in Canada. So, 2 in Canada, 1 in USA, 1 in France and 1 in Germany. Altogether 5 as GRE allows you.

[Samimiy]

Thanks a lot Anatoliy,

Laziz, in USA - SC, but again, I am only now reviewing the works of faculty staff. So, I will have to find the right person to contact. Although the processes of revision should have already started.

My main emphasis is on two universities in Canada. So, 2 in Canada, 1 in USA, 1 in France and 1 in Germany. Altogether 5 as GRE allows you.

I strongly recommend that you apply to more schools. Five is not enough, i think. You need some kind of insurance. GRE sends your scores to 5 schools for free, but you can pay additional money to have them send it to more schools.

[Martingale]

just curious...im not planning to go to PhD, but just asking

-how many years does it take for uzbek student to finish it. I know most americans quit the half way
- is it possible to work part-time while doing PhD. or do you have to be always involved.

[Samimiy]

just curious...im not planning to go to PhD, but just asking

-how many years does it take for uzbek student to finish it. I know most americans quit the half way
- is it possible to work part-time while doing PhD. or do you have to be always involved.

-I would say the average is 5 yrs in the U.S.
-Usually you'll have an assistantship, which is about 20 hrs of work and pays you enough to get by (and maybe a little more). So you don't have to work elsewhere. PhD is hard enough without having to work outside the univ. But if you need to work, it becomes even less manageable.

[himalay]

Well, I was going to apply to some more. But for most of them deadlines have passed. So, I need to find the school either with later intake time or as a whole, with several intakes a year.

Thanks a lot Samimiy.

Well, let me get on.

[SALAR]

You still have some chance to apply for PHD to some Unis in Europe

You have to look up the scedules

But You have little time

[anatoliydaev]

Well, I was going to apply to some more. But for most of them deadlines have passed. So, I need to find the school either with later intake time or as a whole, with several intakes a year.

Thanks a lot Samimiy.

Well, let me get on.
Go to DAAD web page and find International Doctoral Programmes section. Most Unis in Germany have summer or late spring application deadlines. You still have time.

[furik]

Samimiy, Furik, Anatoliy,

thanks a lot for realistic statements/description.

Obviously I realise the strugglesomeness of the mission. And I think, nevertheless, I will stay in my mind, decision. The main thing, at this time, concerns whether they are going to give me offer or not. MSc here wasn't any easier either, but it was only for one year.

As for specific modules and subjects: I always maths was a part of my set of competences. Although I didn't have to use my full potential and obviously didn't train my skills properly for the last 4-5 years, I think I can catch up eventually. It is going to be a matter of time.

They dismissed my MSc in Marketing, probably it is too far in a wrong direction for PhD in Economics. They decided to wait for my submission of the verified copies and translations of my transcripts from my undergraduate level (yet from Tashkent). So I am waiting for them to be sent to me in turn.

Samimiy, Furik, Anatoliy, I stil have got a few questions:

1. How many of those more or less economic modules did you have for each of the course?

2. Why research is going to have priority over modules ? Does it mean that if you fail a module, they give you chance to resit the exam or even retake the whole module ?

3. How many modules did you have as a whole per semester?

By the way, obviously I realise I won't be any different than the rest of the students, but it is just a psychological support for myself. We all go with the stream and act as it dictates. Perhaps, the idea of existence of spiritual roots of human competence is indeed in place. So, perhaps we all change our attitudes as we go and as our positions change.

Well, thanks a lot, for previous and future postings. And I'll gladly read all the advises our elderlies can give to us...

meanwhile, all the best luck

M.B.

1. How many of those more or less economic modules did you have for each of the course?

In US, the course work for PhD programs is usually lasts two years. After two years you are required to take qualifying. In my program, we required to take quals after end of the first year. During my first year I had 3 units (12 credits) of classes per semester. It's hard to describe the classes because some of the were mixture of several topics. But the basic denominators are: Statistics (Mathematical Stat and Econometrics), micro economic theory game theory, welfare econ, consumer econ.


2. Why research is going to have priority over modules ? Does it mean that if you fail a module, they give you chance to resit the exam or even retake the whole module ?

That's not what I meant. You still have to take and pass classes, it's a prerequisite. But in the long run, no1 cares what were your grades, in fact a lot PhD in their CV don't even show their GPAs. The understanding is if some school gave you a PhD degree, then you good enough. Honestly, I don't know any1 who failed the class. I do know people who didn't pass the qualifying. Usually, you can take qualifying again, but the number of times is limited (usually two times). If you did not pass the qual second time, you have to leave the program. They award you a M.S. and kick you out. I've seen people who got that letter, it's not pretty.

What I meant when I said that research is important is following. Call me biased, but I think everything in this world revolves around money. Universities, being non-profit, also put a lot of emphasis on the funds. Funds in academia means research grants. It's a dream of every American university to get productive (in terms of publications) faculty. Because publications are the proxy for the PhD's ability to write grant proposals, which eventually means ability to attract funds. Every time a faculty gets money, these funds go through the university, and I am sure university gets some percentage, and so does the department. In US to get a tenure, the PhD is required to publish certain amount of articles in certain level of journals. I've seen people getting full proferssorship in six years because they were very productive and managed to attract large funds. Bear in mind it takes 7 years for average PhD to get tenure, and majority will never get full profesorship. So if you show that you are capable of producing, it's always easier. That's what I meant when I said research is more important.

[himalay]

I see.

Furik, what are the qualifyings themselves? Exams? Or just an assessment of all marks obrained so far along with publications if any ?

Anton, thanks for the idea (DAAD) will check it soon !
M.B>

[furik]

I see.

Furik, what are the qualifyings themselves? Exams? Or just an assessment of all marks obrained so far along with publications if any ?

Anton, thanks for the idea (DAAD) will check it soon !
M.B>

Qualifying are comprehesive exams you take after you are done with the required course work. They don't take into account your publications, it's just big final exam that summarises all classes you were required to take.

[himalay]

I see, something similar to those statutory exams that we used to have all the way along from high school to Master's level. Probably the only difference is that those used to be on specified subjects, however most of the major subjects were offsited here.

Kandidatskie minimumi tipa znachit ?

[Sarahjon]

I did not read all here, but:

1/ phd programs vary from one uni to another - so, you ve gotta learn from program coverage published at the website of the uni u r interested in;

2/ agree, you ve gotta apply to more than 5 schools, and include sure-entry ones. if not this year, apply for next year's entry, as you gre is still good then.

3/ top 20 schools will not even look at gre-math lower than 720.

4/ top 5 schools get so many applications that they are phisically unable to review everything, and so, they just throuw out random piles of applications;

5/ do not ignore analytical part of gre, which you can train for and score well with practice. to improve your verbal score, record words on a tape or whatever, and listen, instaed of listening to ipod music;

6/ u do not really want phd unless you love math or you want to teach. there are more phds then needed, and so even good schools' grads dont get good job offers in other uni-s. they normally go to a lower rank schools to teach.

personally, i think if you want to make money, you should do mba in a good school, not phd econ. its more practical. phd-s are kinda starnge -- no offense. they do too much advanced math that noone really gets in total, and lose touch with real world. remember a joke: a tin on island which could not be opened by three travelers, and a suggestion by an economist: "assuming we had a tin-opener, we could open this tin in a second." not much help. really, with all due respect to strong economists, my conclusion is business degrees make more sense.

oh well - probably i am completely wrong. after all, all depends on what is your eventual goal. you can always quit at a masters level, and get a job.

rgrds, and yeah, good luck in everything.






Qualifying are comprehesive exams you take after you are done with the required course work. They don't take into account your publications, it's just big final exam that summarises all classes you were required to take.

[himalay]

I think at the end it is a personal choice. Thanks a lot for your OPINION Sarahjon.

It is not mainly about finding a job. However, mainly, PhDs in Economics will get the employments from non-commercial organisations/NGO/governments/international institutions (mainly development institutions such as WBRD)/or simply teach at the universities. None of them is too bad for me. So, I can accept any of them.

About loosing the touch with reality: it is pretty much the same as MSc or MA, but to even greater extent. I admit they overload students sometims. Routines are there for them to train students. But it may sometimes start working the other way around: turning you into flip. There are wins and losses of each decision. Wins of doing PhD is about the environment that you wil be exposed to in the long run. So, if someone starts complaining about having done his/her MSc or MA, I could think of my possible regrets of doing PhD ever. So, simple as that.

One benefit is that it changes the whole thing, the way you look at things fundamentally. Expectations could be built high, but completion and achievement is another matter. Expect having to solve the problem of calculating the probabilities of those three being able to open the tin whithin the next ten years, but the life might have prepared something surprising for you. You never know.

Good luck everybody,
M.B>

[Samimiy]

personally, i think if you want to make money, you should do mba in a good school, not phd econ
Recently, the finance dept. of my college hired a Yale financial econ. PhD graduate as an assistant prof. Her website: http://students.som.yale.edu/phd/xw63/vivian.htm

The starting salary is $200,000/year. How's that for making money? :D
Granted, her phD is not in econ, but some of the top schools' (i.e. Chicago) Mktg or Finance departments hire exclusively econ. phDs.

This may sound exceptionally high. But this is what top candidates get in business schools. I know at least 2 phD grads from my college's Accounting dept (which is ranked very highly), who have 6 or 7 offers each and the AVERAGE of their offers is $190,000/year.

[Martingale]

Recently, the finance dept. of my college hired a Yale financial econ. PhD graduate as an assistant prof. Her website: http://students.som.yale.edu/phd/xw63/vivian.htm

The starting salary is $200,000/year. How's that for making money? :D
Granted, her phD is not in econ, but some of the top schools' (i.e. Chicago) Mktg or Finance departments hire exclusively econ. phDs.

This may sound exceptionally high. But this is what top candidates get in business schools. I know at least 2 phD grads from my college's Accounting dept (which is ranked very highly), who have 6 or 7 offers each and the AVERAGE of their offers is $190,000/year.
Samimiy, hamma joyda bir hil emas. Siz UGA ga kelin, starting 60 dan kup topmiysiz. atak 60 ham yomon emas.:rolleyes: Lekin ulgur naq 4 yil kamida ketadida. 3 yilga qisqartirishni ilojisi yumi?:twisted:

[anatoliydaev]

Recently, the finance dept. of my college hired a Yale financial econ. PhD graduate as an assistant prof. Her website: http://students.som.yale.edu/phd/xw63/vivian.htm

The starting salary is $200,000/year. How's that for making money? :D
Granted, her phD is not in econ, but some of the top schools' (i.e. Chicago) Mktg or Finance departments hire exclusively econ. phDs.

This may sound exceptionally high. But this is what top candidates get in business schools. I know at least 2 phD grads from my college's Accounting dept (which is ranked very highly), who have 6 or 7 offers each and the AVERAGE of their offers is $190,000/year.

Wow!!! I will be happy even for a quarter of this amount.
Yes, it is true that PhD increases a persons market value. I think I would rater stay in education system after getting the Dr degree, perhaps for a short term post-doc.

[himalay]

:). Laziz, did we convince you too to go for PhD?? Then success guys (PhDies)!!!

So, who is our next victim ? :).

Laziz, you seem to have made your mind already ?? :) well, give us some idea

[Samimiy]

That's why I do not think that a phd graduate gets 200 k as a STARTING SALARY. I would understand if Yale was hiring her.:lol: . But penn state, no way, 200k.


Nevertheless, it is true, I am certain of this. The only reason I am not saying this is a a fact is I didn't hear this from the department head. I heard it from a fellow student. And also the other two with 190-200K offers, those are fellow students as well.
I am not saying this is the average salary, but it's not unrealistic for top candidates. Did you see her vita? Unbelievable - 3 Master's + PhD!!!

[furik]

Her salary does not come as surprise to me. Finance faculty are heavyweights when it comes to salaries, 6 digits are often expected, also accounting people get a lot (economists usually are not that much paid, I think mostly because of the theoretical nature of their research). This is because there is a lot of money in finance research (which is why I am trying to do as much research in finance as possible)... If you don't believe me, in States faculty salaries are public information, you can go to the library and check how much who is getting in your school.

Check out this link:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/netesin/mba.html

[Martingale]

Nevertheless, it is true, I am certain of this. The only reason I am not saying this is a a fact is I didn't hear this from the department head. I heard it from a fellow student. And also the other two with 190-200K offers, those are fellow students as well.
I am not saying this is the average salary, but it's not unrealistic for top candidates. Did you see her vita? Unbelievable - 3 Master's + PhD!!!

I may agree with you on that. Cause your salary totally depends on your qulaification. But I have to say that Penn-state must be rich then, if they give 200k as a starting salary. How much is the medium salary for an average professor then? My mathematics professor, who is also associate dean gets 75k. He got his master's from MIT and phd from Berkeley. And we are taught on the book written by himself.

poor Georgians are discriminated. :twisted:

President of UGA Michael Adams gets 500k, Im sure based on the fact that 200k goes to a fresh PHd candidate, every normal professor at any department of Penn state with many years of work gets more salary than President of UGA.:)

[Samimiy]

My mathematics professor, who is also associate dean gets 75k. He got his master's from MIT and phd from Berkeley. And we are taught on the book written by himself.


This is not the right comparison. You should compare finance profs at UGA vs finance profs elsewhere.

Btw, I just remembered that a guy I know, who is graduating with an Econ. phD, just accepted a job offer from Hal White's consulting firm. He's starting with 160,000 + 30,000 signing bonus. So all is not lost for economists :)

[anatoliydaev]

AFAIK, the academic salaries are always much less than those paid in companies, international organizations. However, Dr.s can earn additional money from own research projects. There is one Dr. in Bonn who is one of the brightest GAMS modeller and involved in almost 80 percent of EU's economic policy projects. He earns a lot!!! :) So it seams that it is not so boring to bexome a Dr. in agricultural economics :)

[Martingale]

This is not the right comparison. You should compare finance profs at UGA vs finance profs elsewhere.

Btw, I just remembered that a guy I know, who is graduating with an Econ. phD, just accepted a job offer from Hal White's consulting firm. He's starting with 160,000 + 30,000 signing bonus. So all is not lost for economists :)

Samimiy, do you think mathematicians are underpaid?:lol:

ok, here is the salary of the Head of Finance Department and a former President of Financial Management Association International (FMA) Annette Poulsen (http://www.terry.uga.edu/finance/people/facultyprofiles/poulsen/index.htm)
salary (http://www.audits.state.ga.us/esa/confirm.aud)

slightly more than a new PhD at Penn state.:rolleyes:

President of UGA M. Adams (http://www.audits.state.ga.us/esa/confirm.aud)

[Samimiy]

Maybe you know anout it, there is a comic strip about grad school life, called Piled Higher and Deeper.

http://www.phdcomics.com/

The author of this comic strip, Jorge Cham, came to Penn State to give a talk earlier today. It was Hilarious!!! I loved it. The auditorium was packed, some people were actually standing. out of about 300 people there were 4-5 undergrads and 1 prof.
I have never seen an audience identify with the speaker so perfectly. The chemistry was amazing :) I hadn't had such a good laugh in a very long time.
I definitely recommend checking out his comics in the website above :)

[himalay]

well, good luck for those two,

Martingale I thought we convinced you otherwise already, kind of were thinking about visiting you sometime in future in Penn or ND, or whichever will it be...

you would meet us with big glasses on, a little absent-minded, sometimes forgetting where were you going and askin our names again and again, uncombed hair, perhaps of sleepless night, unironed suit and old, leather-look-like case with a cluster of papers in it...

in short we were hoping to meet another geek guy PhD out there, so what happened ? You started looking for justifications not to do your PhD ...

[Martingale]

Martingale,
actually, those positions are not too hard to get if you have a PhD from a top school. Demand is always higher than supply for those positions. The hard part is to earn that degree from a top school. If you do not rock math then no way you can get admission to top doctoral programs. And, without outstanding math skills and hard work no way you can earn a PhD from a top program.

not hard?
nope you are very wrong, my friend. I can tell you the requirements for those positions without looking at their websites:
general requirments:

- PhD from top school(when I say top I mean top 10:harvard, stanford, princeton etc. sometimes lower tier graduates might also slip in, but if there are two candidates for one position, the one with a degree from top instituition will qualify....But not always...There are always exceptions)..actually this is not an easy thing, so your opinion left out right here.;)

- besides rocking math(there are zillions of math degree students:twisted: or students ) you have to:

- have experience, preferrably at top Investment banks(Hallo!!!...sometimes your degree from top school can't get you in IB) or hedge Funds(there are not so many out there)

- be a computer geek(C++ is a must, VBA is a must, Java optional/must, database management is a must, Linux is a must, matlab, SAS or STATA are preferred etc.)

- perfect GPA most of the times, although PhD gpas are not reported, they will still look at your undergrad or master's GPAs

- other non-technical skills.

-etc.

yeah, it looks really easy. I don't think it's hard at all.:rolleyes:

[Martingale]

Hopeful, that's ok with me. But still what you are saying is is ambigious to some degree. It's like saying the cake is not sweet, but the sugar is.:)
Look at the big picture always. And as Im saying Phd is a prerequisite, but your experince plays the major role as well. If you prove that you have been a successful trader and show that you know a lil math, you may become a quant trader without PhD and earn sa much as the money.

peace,;)

[anatoliydaev]

P.S. every person is unique in his abilities and desires, therefore my post should not be considered as an insult or offence towards current PhD students. This post should not be considered as promotion of MBA programs overall.
Administration of www.forum.uz (http://www.forum.uz) may or may not share my opinion and should not be held legally responsible for my actions and blah blah blah :).

LOL. Agree, PhD is really big sweet-sweat maso-pain. But when one gets used to academic style, he just cannot stop :)

[WASP]

Perhaps, it would be more precise if you compared MBA with a PhD in Business. I am not that excited about getting either of them, because I don't necessarily believe a degree from a certain top school will guarantee a success in life. It's almost like believing myths about ...whatever. Anyway, I think both can be equally successful; case in point, a PhD or MBA from Columbia. Can you tell which one of them will be making more money upon graduation? I can't. What I can tell, however, is that an MBA graduate can make more money in one case, or end up working for a mediocre company barely making it through each month in the other case. The same is true for PhD students (Business).

This is the difference between successful and the rest. It does not matter whether you have a PhD/MBA from Columbia or not, if you can't be successful (in terms of money...it's important to make sure we're measuring success by the same means), you are not going to be one even if you get your PhD from every single top school out there and/or all around the world. However, when comparing MBA with PhD programs, it's critical that you take into consideration that many of those students are truly attracted to the academics itself rather than making money. One other point that I would like to bring up here is that you are comparing “a successful” MBA student with “a not exactly successful" PhD student. There are millions of firms on Wall St. and elsewhere that are willing to pay gazillions to those with a PhD and a "beautiful mind," though often "socially awkward" people… it’s also true for MBA students.

Some people make fortunes without a single degree, whereas there those who barely make 80K with a PhD/MBA from Harvard. Thus, being successful depends purely on whether you are good at what you do. It's about being the best!

MBA is the best way to go if your goal is to make money. As I wrote in one of my earlier posts - PhD is an academic torture, unless you love research and number crunching.

MBA from top 30 school will make on average 85 K after graduation, plus annual salary increase of let's say 20% (may be higher may be lower). In three years into the job he/she will make 85+85*1.2+85*1.2^2=309K. Subtract from that 40K as costs of education (we will assume that MBA student got some scholarship) and also 48K as opportunity cost (we will assume that PhD will earn 24K per year as his stipend). So by the end of the third year, an MBA student will have a promised salary of 147K (85*1.2^3), three years of work experience and gross income of 221K.

Right about that time, PhD student will graduate with low chances of finding a 150K job (most likely 80K teaching position), no experience and 120K of gross income.

So even from purely financial standpoint MBA is a better choice. Easier to get in, easier to find a job (relative to high paying PhD job), and less academic pain in the butt :).

Guest

P.S. every person is unique in his abilities and desires, therefore my post should not be considered as an insult or offence towards current PhD students. This post should not be considered as promotion of MBA programs overall.
Administration of www.forum.uz (http://www.forum.uz) may or may not share my opinion and should not be held legally responsible for my actions and blah blah blah :).

[WASP]

I wanted to mention that 89.7K avg. salary for top 30 MBA schools also means that there are many and many of those who are not even making 80K coming out of top business programs. A person with a PhD in Business may in some cases be in advantage against a person with an MBA.

I hope you are not comparing a Masters in Business Administration with a PhD in Mathematics or Physics. That would be a mistake.

If, however, you would like to debate this matter further, I would like to invite you to the following website: www.nuclearphynance.com. You are welcome to post your argument there and I am sure you will get a lot of feedback from many different points of views. It's also a fun place if you are interested in hard-core finance. Many of the members are filthy rich quant traders; just to keep in mind.

[Mogul]

If, however, you would like to debate this matter further, I would like to invite you to the following website: www.nuclearphynance.com (http://www.nuclearphynance.com). You are welcome to post your argument there and I am sure you will get a lot of feedback from many different points of views. It's also a fun place if you are interested in hard-core finance. Many of the members are filthy rich quant traders; just to keep in mind.
They have their own Martingale there. One thing these two Martingales have in common is their love for animals.

[Martingale]

They have their own Martingale there. One thing these two Martingales have in common is their love for animals.

LOL. Mogul, I went there and saw this nick. But I never stole it from him or anywhere else. But dawg rulez anyways.:cool:

[forex]

Guys,don't argue with guest2005.He has a ****wit and likes to insist on his own.I bet if he was doing PhD,he would have found some compelling facts about PhD students:)

[Professor-utkir]

Firstly you shoul get one of the followings GRE (technical specializations), GMAT (economics and finance specialisations) and TOEFL or IELTS.
Then send your all required documents where you wanna apply.

Extra information. Texas A&M University appreciates candidates for the engineering specializations (). Give search www.tamu.edu (http://www.tamu.edu> engineering) > engineering
Department of Electrical And Computer Engineering (http://www.ee.tamu.edu)
Department of Industrial Engineering (http://www.ie.tamu.edu)
Department of Civil Engineering (http://www.cheweb.tamu.edu)
Department of Petroleum Engineering (http://www.pumpjack.tamu.edu)
and so on guys.
I wish you good luck.

[Professor-utkir]

http://www.google.com/u/tamuedu?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&domains=tamu.edu&q=engineering&btnG=Search&sitesearch=tamu.edu

[krokobazuka]

WoW... There is some serious shit discussion going on here... I guess this issue is already tackled from each point... one thing I want to add:

In order to compare PhD vs MBA program, you can't assume graduation rates are the same... There is 90-95% chance that you graduate from MBA and 40-70% from PhD... If you don't graduate from PhD, you get an MA - which has no value at all... If you want to get a job with MA in Economics, you'd be in total disadvantage - you are overqualified for entry level jobs and underqualified/uncompetitive for MBA jobs.. So if your interest lies in financial aspect - never even think of a PhD... Unless it is Financial Economics PhD, where even a dropout can get good money in a quant position..

Only if you have unbelievable passion for research, don't care about the money and willing to take chance, you'd apply to PhD. Unless, you are stuck in Uzbekistan and want to get away ;)

PS USC football kicks ass... ND/UCLA/Arkansas Razorback and hopefully PSU/UGA in future ;) sorry I am being a jerk

[forex]

WoW... There is some serious shit discussion going on here... I guess this issue is already tackled from each point... one thing I want to add:

In order to compare PhD vs MBA program, you can't assume graduation rates are the same... There is 90-95% chance that you graduate from MBA and 40-70% from PhD... If you don't graduate from PhD, you get an MA - which has no value at all... If you want to get a job with MA in Economics, you'd be in total disadvantage - you are overqualified for entry level jobs and underqualified/uncompetitive for MBA jobs.. So if your interest lies in financial aspect - never even think of a PhD... Unless it is Financial Economics PhD, where even a dropout can get good money in a quant position..

Only if you have unbelievable passion for research, don't care about the money and willing to take chance, you'd apply to PhD. Unless, you are stuck in Uzbekistan and want to get away ;)

PS USC football kicks ass... ND/UCLA/Arkansas Razorback and hopefully PSU/UGA in future ;) sorry I am being a jerk

Krok,are you saying that you have unbelievable passion for research and don't care about the money?
That's quite a news:)

[krokobazuka]

Unless, you are stuck in Uzbekistan and want to get away ... :)

[abcd]

Krok,are you saying that you have unbelievable passion for research and don't care about the money?
That's quite a news:)
Sarcasm of a month. :D

[Samimiy]

Unless, you are stuck in Uzbekistan and want to get away ... :)

And this one is the honest comment of this thread :)

[furik]

Unless, you are stuck in Uzbekistan and want to get away ... :)

Economically speaking, opportunity cost is very low in Uzbekistan...

[forex]

Economically speaking, opportunity cost is very low in Uzbekistan...

if there is hardly one in Uzbekistan...

[Africa]

Hi Guys,

I might also be interested in Phd in Finance, but later. Not sure yet, if I have enough brains for that.:)

Questions -

1. I have taken GMAT 3 times - 660, 670, 710. My English sucked, but my quant scores were 50, 50, 51. The last is in 99 percentile. Does the fact that my quant score is highest possible might somehow offset not stellar high gmat score?
Would you recommned me to re-take the test to get higher overall score?

2. How do you guys doing phd polished your writing skills?

Thanks