Origins of Islamic religion

[Jennifer]

Salom,

I asked this question earlier, but received a confusing answer.

The question is: Does Judaism predate Islam?

What is conventionally taught in the US and by religious historians is that Judaism was the very monotheistic religion, beginning 5766 years ago. Then, 2005 years ago, Jesus was born and with him, the religion of Christianity. Then, 1383 years ago, Muhammad founded the religion of Islam.

MUSLIMS POINT TO ABRAHAM, MOSES, DAVID, JESUS...
They believe Abraham (together with his son Ishmael) rebuilt,
in what is now Mecca, the first temple in the world for the
worship of a single God (whose name in Arabic is Allah)

Source: http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/islam/islam_01.htm

(The above is a xtian source; however, it confirms what other non-xtian sources, both academic and religious say)

http://www.islamfortoday.com/history.htm#History

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_intr.htm

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/islam/beginnings/

http://humanities.uchicago.edu/classes/islamic-origins/intro.html


Someone made a statement that alluded to Muslim predating Judaism. Other than in this forum, I have not heard that before. Please understand that I'm not at all trying to shake anyone's faith or attack Islam at all (though not Islamic myself, I respect the purely monotheist religion very much).

Above, I'm just pointing out what seems to be accepted by much of the world.

Quite simply, I'd like to know when the religion of Islam began!

[Iqbol]

Don't worry, you are not shaking anyone's religion.
Moses a.s. precedes Muhammad s.a.v., but all the religions sent by God are the same, it is Islam. As there is one God, there is one true religion.
The spirit of all the religions is Islam.

[-JUST-]

According to the Quran, the humankind beginning from the first humans Adam and Eve, believed in Allah and worshipped Him alone. But as time passed on, human kind started transgressing the limits imposed by the Almighty Allah. Out of His mercy he sent prophets and messengers to call people to the right path, i.e. to worship Allah, the ONE and ONLY God. Unlike any other major monotheistic religions, Islam acknowledges all the previous prophets mentioned in the Bible and in the Torah. In addition it is part of the major tenents of Muslim's faith to believe in the prophets that were sent to the previous nations like Noah, Ibrahim, Ismael, Ishaq (Isaac),Moses and Jesus (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon all of them) and many more that came in between.
So why do we muslims believe in the previous prophets you might ask? Quite simly, Islam is the same message that was brought by the previous prophets to their nations,tribes,familes, i.e. There's no God except Allah. However, people deviated and changed their scriptures to suit their own interest, thus tampered the words of Allah. Therefore now were have Judaism and Christianity. So, coming of Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not found the religion of Islam, rather it completed the Islam which started with Adam and Eve. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the seal of the prophets and the last messenger of Allah to come on Earth and thus the message that was given to him was universal to the whole humanity that will come till the doom's day. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) concluded the long chain of the messengers with the final revelatio of Allah, the Quran.

There's no confusion in the minds of muslims as to what are the origins of Islam. The previous nations who followed the teachings of their prophets were also muslim, because muslim means - the one who submits. And they belived in Allah, thus their faith of Islam (submission). But the actual teachings of Islam back then versus today differ in the scope. The Islam that was taught to us by the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is very big in its scope and covers all aspects of life, because it is to remain untill the doom's day and no messenger is coming to call people to the right path.

Internet is full of this information and here's a link for a detailed life of the prophets as reported in the Quran and Hadith (teachings,sayings of Muhammad peace be upon him): http://www.angelfire.com/on/ummiby1/

[Jennifer]

Unlike any other major monotheistic religions, Islam acknowledges all the previous prophets mentioned in the Bible and in the Torah. In addition it is part of the major tenents of Muslim's faith to believe in the prophets tha

But, isn't that because Islam came after Judaism and Christianity? The Torah was written before Jesus; therefore, Jesus couldn't be mentioned in the Torah. Same with the Christian Bible mentioning Islam. If Islam predates Judaism, then why wasn't Islam mentioned at all in either the Torah or Christian Bible? Even though the Christian Bible wasn't kind to Jews, it did mention them.

How do you know that someone tampered with the Torah? Is there any other religion (other than Islam) that also believe that?

Why doesn't the non-Muslim world accept that Islam predates either Christianity or Judaism? Why do history books say that people were polytheists before Abraham?

I thought (and I'm not claiming this to be true, as I'm certainly in the learning process!) that Ishmael (I apologize if that is misspelled), the son of Abraham, was the first descendant of Islam. That's what is being taught in many (if not most) university classes.

So, coming of Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not found the religion of Islam, rather it completed the Islam which started with Adam and Eve.

Again, I thought that people were polytheistic prior to Abraham. Where is there evidence that the majority of people worshipped only Allah before Abraham?

The Islam that was taught to us by the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is very big in its scope and covers all aspects of life, because it is to remain untill the doom's day and no messenger is coming to call people to the right path.

Oh, I didn't realize this. Obviously, Christians have their Messiah. And Jews are waiting for one. And Muslims do not believe that Allah will arrive on earth in humanly form.

Thanks very much for your reply. I'm just absorbing...

[ДЖИГИТ]

I'd like to make some specifications, one of them is that the word Islam, as we've stated in other threads, means "submission", hence every human being who submits himself to God, and adheres monotheism, including all prophets sent to humanity and their followers, despite of how he/ she calls God (Allah, Eloh, God, Hudo etc. ) were/are muslims. THIS IS ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL BELIEFS OF ISLAM! The word Islam itself is a derivative word to the word"muslim" (root word "salama"). The only difference with muslims of those times was that there were muslims but there was no Islam yet as a law, Islam came into being as a law to the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.

Another specification is that you said "...the first temple in the world for the worship of a single God (whose name in Arabic is Allah)" -
THE WORD "GOD" in Arabic means "Allah" just like "God" in russian means"Bog". By saying named one can think that arabs and muslims made themselves a seperate God, NO WAY!!! God means or literally translated into Arabic as "Allah"! and we muslims worship ONE God for all. Nobody has seen God and nobody knows his look! By the way we've also told about the word "Allah" and "muslims" are not new ones, these words existed before Islam came into being in the 7th c. A.D. Here's a proof:


The first time the word "God" appears in the Bible, it is in Genesis 1:1, when it states:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/gen11.gif

B'reshit bara ELOHIM et ha-shama'im, V'et ha-arets.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

While Christians will forever speculate on the word "Elohim" (http://www.answering-christianity.com/elohim.gif), honest Hebrew speakers would admit that this archaic word for God has a history that is lost to us. The "royal plurality" hypothesis may be a possible explanation for why the word is plural, but this seems to have been unknown to early Hebrew speakers (such as the Jewish missionary who, according to the Kuzari, competed with Muslims and Christians to convert the king of the Khazars in the eighth century). It is difficult however to translate this word to "gods," as the Hebrew text conjugates the verb "to create" in the singular. Regardless, http://www.answering-christianity.com/elohim.gif (Elohim) is a plural forum of a more basic root-word for God, http://www.answering-christianity.com/eloh.gif (eloh)
However, if one were to find the word http://www.answering-christianity.com/eloh.gif (eloh) (alef-lamed-heh) in an inscription written in paleo-Hebrew, Aramaic, or some sort of Nabatean script, it could be pronounced numerous ways without the diacritical marks to guide the reader. This letter combination (which can be proncounced alah) is the root for the verb "to swear" or "to take an oath," as well as the verb "to deify" or "to worship", as can be seen as follows:

[ДЖИГИТ]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ivrit.jpg
The root itself finds its origin with an older root, el, which means God, deity, power, strength, et cetera.

So one of the basic Hebrew words for God, http://www.answering-christianity.com/eloh.gif (eloh), can easily be pronounced alah without the diacritical marks. Not surprisingly, the Aramaic word for God is http://www.answering-christianity.com/alah_estra.gif (alah). This word, in the standard script (http://www.answering-christianity.com/alah_aram.gif), or the Estrangela script (http://www.answering-christianity.com/alah_estra.gif), is spelled alap-lamad-heh (ALH), which are the exact corresponding letters to the Hebrew eloh. The Aramaic is closely related to the more ancient root word for God, eel.

The Arabic word for God, Allâh (http://www.answering-christianity.com/allaah.gif) , is spelled in a very similar way, and is remotely related to the more generic word for deity, http://www.answering-christianity.com/ilah.gif (ilah). We are quickly starting to notice the obvious linguistic and etymological connections between the respective words for God in these closely related Semitic languages (e.g. Allâh, Alah, and Eloh being related to Ilah, Eel, and El, respectively). So, in conclusion, if monolingual tri-theists want to claim that Allâh/Alah was the name of a tribal moon god, and that worship of such a deity is a gross pagan practice, they should throw their Bibles in the dustbin for including this deity in its text. They should also repudiate Jesus for calling on an version of this deity while on the cross (as per the Biblical account).

Interestingly enough, there is proof from a Christian source that clearly demonstrates the above.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/allahinot.jpg



The above book mentions that Ezra and the Prophet Daniel called their God as "Elah". The passage above is more than enough to counter the allegation made by misguided Christians about Allâh being a moon god. For, if Allâh is the moon god, then what were Ezra and Daniel worshipping?

Conclusion

Pantheist/Buddhist thinker Brett Neichin has said of Christians that they are reformed Jews and do not even know it. Indeed, much of Christianity finds its roots in the Semitic world, yet the believers of this religion are notorious for their interpretations of the faith in a European world view. This is the reason they would actually try to find fault with a religion that acknowledges the existence of the exact same God they do; this is the reason they would erroneously claim that Eloh, Alah, and Allâh are different Gods.


As for the origin of the religion of Islam, it all depends on the point you consider it. From the historical point of view Islam came into being in the 7th century through revelation from to prophet Muhammed s.a.w. via angel Gabriel. from theological point of view, and since Islam is monotheism, and FULLY acknowledges and testifies the existence of holy books and all prophets, came into being together with the first human being -Adam.

For another proof, please refer to the thread " Being like the teacher"!
www.answering-christianity.com (http://www.answering-christianity.com)

[Jennifer]

Dear DJIGIT,

Another specification is that you said "...the first temple in the world for the worship of a single God (whose name in Arabic is Allah)"

Perhaps I missed it, but I'm afraid I don't see that anywhere in this thread.


DJIGIT, I very much appreciate the time you've taken to reply!

However, with all due respect, my impression is that you're replying with an answer that doesn't really address my specific questions. You've given out the same website many times. However, it gives many opinions without backing them up. In fact, I've found many errors in it. As a writer and researcher myself, how can I trust information from a source that has not been careful with stating its unverified opinions as truth (the "Protocols of Zion" hoax is a very major error)?

I'd very much like to see some websites that are not Islamic/Muslim that address my questions.

Thank you very kindly.

[ДЖИГИТ]

Dear DJIGIT,



Perhaps I missed it, but I'm afraid I don't see that anywhere in this thread.


DJIGIT, I very much appreciate the time you've taken to reply!

However, with all due respect, my impression is that you're replying with an answer that doesn't really address my specific questions. You've given out the same website many times. However, it gives many opinions without backing them up. In fact, I've found many errors in it. As a writer and researcher myself, how can I trust information from a source that has not been careful with stating its unverified opinions as truth (the "Protocols of Zion" hoax is a very major error)?

I'd very much like to see some websites that are not Islamic/Muslim that address my questions.

Thank you very kindly.


I'm sorry Jennifer, but I don't understand what a researcher you are IF

first, you don't understand that Protocols of Zion was NOT taken from www.answering-chrisitanity.com (http://www.answering-chrisitanity.com)

Second, if I quoted Old Testament which also has the word (alah, elah) which must be good as a reliable source, not islamic!!! So quoting Old Testament and New Testament is not a back up for you!? I don't know then what can be back up for you!

and


by Jennifer
Perhaps I missed it, but I'm afraid I don't see that anywhere in this thread.


hmm, then what is this?????????????????????????????????????????????:


by Jennifer
MUSLIMS POINT TO ABRAHAM, MOSES, DAVID, JESUS...
...They believe Abraham (together with his son Ishmael) rebuilt,
in what is now Mecca, the first temple in the world for the
worship of a single God (whose name in Arabic is Allah)...



as for Judaism predating Islam, I think one must not be a researcher to know that!!!


I'm sorry for you Jennifer if you don't understand, really sorry!

[Ulug'bek]

Jennifer,
I am researcher as you are, but maybe in different field. My field is Islamic Studies. From your posts I can see clearly that you lack some basic knowledge of what Islam is, sorry to say, but this not a fault or blemish, as everybody doesn't know what he/she didn't study before!

As to sourses you trust or untrust, how come you can trust purely christian sourses about Islam, where they clearly state that Muslims are 'some times our enemies' (referring to the links you have quoted on origins of islam) and you can't do the same when yo face Islamic sites?! Is this a scientific approach? You have to trust all or untrust all or have a scientific approach differentiating well-founded works in each sourse from baseless ones!
Afterall, is any source that could be trusted completely?!

Back to your questions, I see that other participants have already covered most parts of them, so I don't know which one are you looking for answer exactly!
Can you put your question that you think that is not answered yet in brief? I will try my best to help you?

Sorry for my weak English, as it is not my academc language. Nevertheless, I believe it is sufficient to exchange with views.

Maybe a little input about Islam after Mohammas SAW and islam before Him. Although we consider every body following monotheistic religions revealed by the God a 'Muslim' in the sense that He was following the right path of the time as many have said it here, nothing is wrong in differtiating between these two groups by calling the true followers of Jesus or followers of Moses by different names such 'the follower of Jesus' etc. What is important here is that, Muslims believe that those people who have followed previous prophets Adam, Abraham, etc. were in the right path which qualify them for Paradise and if any of Muslims today 'had to be born' at that time, he or she had no choice but to follow the prophet of that time!

From here you may see that, if you want to be very specific in your defination, you may refer to Islam as a last religion believed by Muslims to be revealed by God and you may have a different name to refer to previous religions as long as the name you choose reflect correctly what you mean (In fact, in Islamic sources itselfe, this differentiation/specification also have used sometimes, beside 'General Islam'). Consepts are more important than the names and terms!

So you might say Islam was predated by the religions Jesus, Moses or other prophets have brough, if you mean by Islam the last modified version of revealed monotheistic religion sent to Muhammad SAW and Muslims see nothing wrong with that, while this wouldn't be correct if you meant by islam -revealed monotheism, as its first version was sent downt to Adam- fist humanbeing and prophet on the Earth (at least according to the conventional view).


Dear DJIGIT,

Perhaps I missed it, but I'm afraid I don't see that anywhere in this thread.
DJIGIT, I very much appreciate the time you've taken to reply!

However, with all due respect, my impression is that you're replying with an answer that doesn't really address my specific questions. You've given out the same website many times. However, it gives many opinions without backing them up. In fact, I've found many errors in it. As a writer and researcher myself, how can I trust information from a source that has not been careful with stating its unverified opinions as truth (the "Protocols of Zion" hoax is a very major error)?

I'd very much like to see some websites that are not Islamic/Muslim that address my questions.

Thank you very kindly.

[Jennifer]

I'm sorry Jennifer, but I don't understand what a researcher you are IF

first, you don't understand that Protocols of Zion was NOT taken from www.answering-chrisitanity.com (http://www.answering-chrisitanity.com)


I didn't say that. I said that the site claims that the Protocols of Zion was a document written by Jews. That rumor has been disproven by many non-biased sources. Yet, that rumor is still being propagated. There were many other errors, as well.

Second, if I quoted Old Testament which also has the word (alah, elah) which must be good as a reliable source, not islamic!!! So quoting Old Testament and New Testament is not a back up for you!? I don't know then what can be back up for you!

I think it might help if you quoted my question and then a direct answer so that the answer is more clear.


hmm, then what is this?????????????????????????????????????????????:

I'm not sure what the extra questions marks are (!), but right you are! I said perhaps I missed it, and after working all day, I most certainly did. That's what staring at a computer screen will do to you. I apologize.


as for Judaism predating Islam, I think one must not be a researcher to know that!!!

Again, I'd love to see some non-Islamic sources. The non-Islamic world is not being taught what you are. I'm not saying who is right or wrong, but if you do your own research outside of Islam, you will see that it is commonly accepted that Christianity and Islam are off-shoots of Judaism. That is not my opinion, but I'm just saying that is what is being taught.

[Jennifer]

From your posts I can see clearly that you lack some basic knowledge of what Islam is

You are right!

As to sourses you trust or untrust, how come you can trust purely christian sourses about Islam

Where did I say I trusted purely Christian sources? Trusting a Christian source about Islam would be the same as trusting an Islamic site about Judaism! I must apologize about that first and last source (in fact, I'll edit them out in a moment because I did realize they are xtian; I'm very sorry). The next source is Islamic, and the rest are academic or not Christian.

Can you put your question that you think that is not answered yet in brief? I will try my best to help you?

Yes, thank you very much!

1. Where is there evidence that the majority of people worshipped only Allah before Abraham? Wasn't most of the world polytheist? That is what is being taught.

2. Why doesn't the non-Muslim world accept that Islam predates either Christianity or Judaism?

3. If Islam predates Judaism, then why wasn't Islam mentioned at all in either the Torah or Christian Bible?

4. How do you know that someone tampered with the Torah? Is there any other religion (other than Islam) that also believe that?


Sorry for my weak English, as it is not my academc one. Nevertheless, I believe it is sufficient to exchange with views.

Weak?! I must vehemently disagree. I wish my second language were as "weak" as yours! Your English is excellent.

[Ulug'bek]

I forgot to write 'let's take questions ONE BY ONE' :) , so 4 questions at once:

1. Where is there evidence that the majority of people worshipped only Allah before Abraham? Wasn't most of the world polytheist? That is what is being taught.

Well, what is taught today is the theory of evolution by Darwin and what is based on it, which says that every thing starts form simple form to more complicated one, including religion. As polytheism is simpler than monotheism, that must be the case here too. Then, it was supported partly by some archealogical findings where they found some ancient people having whorshipped more than one God.
As you maybe aware of, this type of theories could not be approved fully, untill it is tested true in all applicable fields, which is practically impossible (although it possible for science one day to disapprove it by finding just one disproving fact). Nevertheles, it may remain as s scientific theory, depending on findings till today.

A little criticism of the question and the theory

First, we must know that Islam, doesn't say that all people before Abraham were monotheists. Islam says that monotheism was the religion of first humanbeing - Adam and his children and whenever it has been corrupted and polytheism took over its place in the next generations, Allah- God SWT used to send (choose) a prophet who used call people back to the right path. So, Islam draws picture of the history with mixed trends of monotheism and polytheism, sometimes living side by side! Sometimes, polytheism being the religion of the vast majority of the people, for long years!
So the question is not that correct as far as Islam is conserned .

Furthermore, in history we have many cases where under certain sircumustances a group of people who used to believe in more complicated and 'perfect' religions turned to 'simpler' religions, under forse for example (take example of some jews and muslims accepted christianity in Spain when re-occupaid under tortures, as well as some Tatar Muslims have accepted Russian orthodox christianity under force after being defeated and there were many other cases, where people have accepted polytheism after being monotheist in group as well as indvidual level in India and other places, in fact to see people accept Christianity which has elements of polytheism, after being introduced to the Judaism which is monothyestic religion is a big evidence to refute the theory above!).
If this is correct (which you agree with, I hope), why it is not possible that cases, scientists has proved polytheism of certain ancient group belongs to the group that disobeyed the prophet of the time or an earlier prophet or abondened the monotheism under exernal factors, such as force, etc.?

As to why Muslims believe in this 'counter-theory', that is beacuse being muslim means you have two main sources of knowledge, The First: the experience, material scientific findings and what you can feel by your Five Senses, The Second: 'revealed knowledge' or revealation compiled in Koran and some categories of what is collected to be the Prophetic sayings.
So, the reason for believing in it, because it is a religious doctrine, dictated in the Koran and the Prophetic sayings, in addition to the counter-argument against the theory taught widely.


2. Why doesn't the non-Muslim world accept that Islam predates either Christianity or Judaism?

3. If Islam predates Judaism, then why wasn't Islam mentioned at all in either the Torah or Christian Bible?


I think I have answered these two questions in my previous post, before you posted them, when I edited my post, please check it.
In brief, you didn't understand what others meant by saying that Islam predates Christianity or Judaism. Based on what you mean and what I have explained previously, we have no objection to accept that Islam is predated by those 2 religions and others. By this and my previous post the 3rd question is also covered i hope, but if you see they are not, please post them again.


4. How do you know that someone tampered with the Torah? Is there any other religion (other than Islam) that also believe that?

I didn't get the question. Do you mean why Muslims believe that jewish people couldn't preserve their book or why Muslims believe that Jews didn't follow the Torah? or do you mean why Muslims believe that the Torah misleaded its followers? or what?
Most probabaly, I will not have time to post untill tomorrow, as I have already spent on the forum much more than I used to.
As to my English, I am glad that you can understand it.

[Iqbol]

Jennifer, I think that it will be very difficult for you to cite so called 'objective academic reference' if the objectivity means for you being unreligious. All will be either christian, or jewish or islamic or atheist, egally partisan.
But, the objectivity for you means a research thoroughly made on the basis of the real facts and evauated honestly without much enthusiasm or baseless partisanism, you will find a lot of objective sources coming from different religions or ideologies.
For your question you can take any serious book on Islam or oriental studies, you will find a lot of answers. On islam, if you want non islamic authors, you can read, among many others, Massignon, Corbin, Maxim Rodinson, Roger Arnaldez, Roger Deladier, Schacht, E. Gibbon, Gibbs, Esposito, Karen Armstrong and many others. You will find a lot of more or less honest descriptions.

[referee]

So you might say Islam was predated by the religions Jesus, Moses or other prophets have brough, if you mean by Islam the last modified version of revealed monotheistic religion sent to Muhammad SAW and Muslims see nothing wrong with that, while this wouldn't be correct if you meant by islam -revealed monotheism, as its first version was sent downt to Adam- fist humanbeing and prophet on the Earth (at least according to the conventional view).

There's a slight liguistic misrepresentation here in my view. Islam was not "predated by the religions of Jesus, Moses" but it was the same message that the Prophets before the Last Prophet, Muhammad SAW, were advocating - it can't be predated by itself...

So, the name of the same message may have had different names because peoples of the time called it differently, but Allah named it as Islam in the Quran. And Islam is not the modified version, but the accurate version of the same revelation which other Prophets were trying to convey to their peoples, who have consequently altered, edited and corrupted the only and true revelation...

[Aziz]

I'm sorry if my reply is little long
these ayats are from surat Al-Baqara (The Cow)


And (remember) when We made the House (Ka'ba) a resort and a security for men, and (said), `take Abraham's station for a place of the Prayer.' And We made covenant with Abraham and Ishmael: `cleanse my House for those who shall go about it, and those who cleave to it, and those who bow and prostrate themselves.'(125)
And (remember) when Abraham said, `my Lord, make this a land of security, and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in God and the Last Day,' He said, `but if any disbelieves, I shall provide him a little, then I shall compel him to the punishment of the Fire; and how evil is the destination!'(126)
And (remember) when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House (Ka'ba): `our Lord, accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing.(127)
And our Lord, make us submissive to Thee, and of our offspring a community submissive to Thee; and show us our rites, and turn to us; surely Thou art the All- returning, the Merciful.(128)
And our Lord, raise up among them a Messenger from among them, who shall recite to them Thy Signs, teach them the Book and the Wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.'(129)
And who would forsake the creed of Abraham except him who has befooled himself; We chose him in the present world, and he shall be among the righteous in the Hereafter.(130)
When his Lord said to him, `surrender,' he said, `I surrender to the Lord of the world.'(131)
And with that Abraham charged his sons, and did Jacob: `my sons, God has chosen for you the Religion (of Surrender), so die not but that you have surrendered.'(132)
Or were you witnesses, when death came to Jacob, when he said to his sons, `what will you serve after me?' They said, `we shall serve thy God, and the God of thy fathers, Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, the One God, and to Him we have surrendered.'(133)
That was a community that has passed away; for them was what they earned, and for you shall be what you earned, and you shall not be questioned concerning the things they were doing.(134)
And they say, `be Jews or Christians, and you shall be guided.' Say, `no, but the creed of Abraham, the devout; and he was not of the idolaters.'(135)
Say, `we believe in God, and that which has been sent down to us, and that which was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the Prophets from their Lord; we make no division between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered.’__ (136)
Then if they believe in the like of that you believe, they are guided; but if they turn away, they are only insisting to remain separate; and God shall suffice thee against them; and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.' __(137)
`That is the baptism of God, and who could be better in baptizing than God, and Him we serve.'(138)
Say, `do you dispute with us concerning God, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and for us are our deeds and for you are your deeds, and we are sincerely His?'(139)
Or do you say, `Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians?' Say. `do you know better or God? And who does greater wrong than he who conceals a testimony that he has from God; and God is not heedless of the things you do.'(140)
That was a community that has passed away; for them was what they earned, and for you shall be what you earned, and you shall not be questioned concerning the things they were doing.(141)

[MUHLIS]

I think Ms. Jennifer is waiting us to say "Islam predates Christianity and (more importantly to her) Judaism because of such and such.." Then she will write a "research/scholary" article to discredit Islam among Christians and Jews.
Dear Jennifer, the Christainism, Judaism, etc as you are calling "religions" are actually distorted or changed, to say ti softly, ways of the only religion of God, which is Islam. I guess referee noted very well when he said all the prophets including Adam, Noe, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad are messengers of the same and only God.
There is no "reliable" and "biased or unbiased" source in this issue. You cannot agree with everyone at once, you gotta make your own choice here. If you chose to stay in line with, say, Jews, then it will probably be extreamly difficult for you to consider Islamic sources as "reliable". Due to the simple fact that you are not Muslima.
I am trying to guess that, on your research project, you are probably trying to prove that the Jews were the first monotheists. In this forum you are looking for possible counterarguements from Muslims. However, you are making very critical error when you are preassuming that a religious book should state or inform about the upcoming prophet or "religion" when the book itslef is being revealed.
Please understand, Holy Books and messengers are not sent to humans to inform about the next prophet, they primarily are sent to call people to the right path and warn about the last day. The purpose of those books was not to serve as a source for your "research". How can a prophet make people listen to him if he says "There will be another prophet soon, namely, such and such?" On the other hand, I personally do not know, but some say that there are clear evidences in some "versions" of Bible about the coming of Muhammad s.a.v. However, this book itself has gone through so many changes it is hard to find the authentic one. While not a single letter had been changed in Qur'an.
You asked who were monotheists (probably saying "except Jews" in your mind). I do not know much about history of religions. But Modern Chechens were indeed monotheists and accepted Islam. Nohchi(the real name of Chechen nation) link themselves directly to prophet Noe peace be upon him (Nuh in Arablic). Their language is related only to neighbouring Ingush language, and some people say "unknown" scriptures found in M.E. could be intelligable if you know Nohchi. So this nation was monotheist since the times of Noe) and accepted Islam when it became available. Therefore, even tough it might be quite disappointing for you, Nohchi or Chechens were monotheists for much longer period than Jews.
Another example. Ancient Huns and Turks. Attilla was as much disgusted to see people worshipping many "Gods" as he was impressed from stone baths in Rome.
Turkic historical mythology state Turks are ancestors of: Turk son of - Yafas son of Noe. Yes some turks in siberia and mongolia became shamans (as an influence of the representatives of shamanic and other simple religions such as halha (current mongol, jungar, dungan, etc) and some in Central Asia, Caucasus, and Iran became Zoroastrians (as an influence of Persians). However, Turks (like Huns), originally and in their majority, were monotheists. They believed in Tangri which is God/Allah/Huda. Probably that is why Turks accepted Islam voluntarily and quickly produced prominient Islamic scholars. If it is feasible to say so, along with Arabs and Persians, Turks became one of the three most important nations in the history of Islam and Islamic society.

[al-quds muslim]

Salom,

I asked this question earlier, but received a confusing answer.

The question is: Does Judaism predate Islam?

What is conventionally taught in the US and by religious historians is that Judaism was the very monotheistic religion, beginning 5766 years ago. Then, 2005 years ago, Jesus was born and with him, the religion of Christianity. Then, 1383 years ago, Muhammad founded the religion of Islam.

MUSLIMS POINT TO ABRAHAM, MOSES, DAVID, JESUS...
They believe Abraham (together with his son Ishmael) rebuilt,
in what is now Mecca, the first temple in the world for the
worship of a single God (whose name in Arabic is Allah)

Source: http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/islam/islam_01.htm

!

salamu alaikum,

1st of all, i thank all posts sent before as give agood idea about this question, and want to add that there is asmall mistake, that i hear alot in these days, that your source said about by these words (Muhammad founded the religion of Islam.), that is awrong mistake, and by its clarification your question solved, and the right that, mohammed (saaw) as aprophet, not founded islam by him self, but allah (the only god), send islam message on mohammed (saaw),

and as its source is allah(the only god), then , ofcourse islam not improved from christianity, or judaism. but, it is sent from allah, and his majesty only the source of islam message, mohammed (saaw) was just the prophet who is responsible to reach islam message (messenger), not founder of messages.

and also, all messengers, not founded there messages by them selves, but allah give messages for them, and ask them to reach these messages to humanity, and islam is the last message.


thank u all very much

[Ulug'bek]

Dear Referee, as you know, Islam as many other religions, has ideological ('doctrinal' 'believes-part' or creeds -aqedah) and legislative- ahkam parts. Sometimes, by Islam, people refer to both sides and in this case, Islam is only what Muhammad SWT have brought from Allah SWT, as revealed religions differ quite much in the second part, in deed, there is no way to say all religions revealed to the prophets were the same!
Sometimes, people refer by Islam to ideological part and I am sure you meant this and referred to some verses in Koran (most probably to 3: 19, 3:85) and some Hadiths in this regard.
However, in this part, there are few modifications too at least, some of them are as part of validation of the new prophethood, take as an example the necessity of believing in the prophethood of Muhammad and that He is the last prophet, etc.
Then, the whole idea of abrogation lies upon MODIFICATION and change, which is the essential to legalize Islam as a last poit in the chain of prophethoods!

To see how Koran states differences in the legislative part of the prophethoods, please reffer to the Koran, 5:48 and to see this in the example of Jesus see the Koran 3:50. To see how Islamic litrature itself has a narrower usage of 'islam', please refer to the Hadiths conserning 5 pillars of Islam (as the 'islamic pligramage' was not part of earlier 'Islam's) among many others. You may reffer to a-Shafee's al-Umm, p266 and his Ahkamul Qur'an, p112 for wider clarification.

There's a slight liguistic misrepresentation here in my view. Islam was not "predated by the religions of Jesus, Moses" but it was the same message that the Prophets before the Last Prophet, Muhammad SAW, were advocating - it can't be predated by itself...

So, the name of the same message may have had different names because peoples of the time called it differently, but Allah named it as Islam in the Quran. And Islam is not the modified version, but the accurate version of the same revelation which other Prophets were trying to convey to their peoples, who have consequently altered, edited and corrupted the only and true revelation...

[Jennifer]

Salom, and thank you for all the replies! I will digest them (in lieu of a traditional Thanksgiving turkey on this US holiday, but that's okay, because I don't eat meat) and reply a bit later.

Best to all,

Jennifer

Edit: PS -- I'd like to clarify that I am not researching or writing on religious matters for any reason other than to satisfy my own curiosity. I could not begin to write on religious matters in a professional manner!

[referee]

Dear Referee, as you know, Islam as many other religions, has ideological ('doctrinal' 'believes-part' -aqedah) and legislative- ahkam parts. Sometimes, by Islam, people refer to both sides and in this case, Islam is only what Muhammad SWT have brought from Allah SWT, as revealed religions differ quite much in the second part, in deed, there is no way to say all religions revealed to the prophets were the same!
Sometimes, people refer by Islam to ideological part and I am sure you meant this and referred to some verses in Koran (most probably to 3: 19, 3:85) and some Hadiths in this regard.
However, in this part, there are few modifications too at least, take as an example the story of Joseph- Yusuf, when his parents and borthers prostrayted to him upon their arrival to Egypt, which IS Not allowed in modified 'Islam'.
Then, the whole idea of abrogation lies upon MODIFICATION and change, which is the essential to legalize Islam as a last poit in the chain of prophethoods!


Brother Ulugbek,

We are talking about the same thing here: that Islam would be a religion followed by today's Jews and Christians were it not that some people in the past did not misinterprete, alter and corrupt the same revelation in spirit sent to them via Ibrahim, Dawood, Musa and Isa...

[Administrator]

jeniffer moslems believe that jesus will return but not as crsitians as you mentioned "allah will return" ,he is a jusy prophet for us,and prophet will return but not allah.

[Jennifer]

jeniffer moslems believe that jesus will return but not as crsitians as you mentioned "allah will return" ,he is a jusy prophet for us,and prophet will return but not allah.

Why would you assume I'm a Christian (not all non-Muslims are Christian!)? Unfortunately, that assumption is wrong. I do not worship or accept jesus in any way, shape, or form. However, I believe strongly in freedom of religion and thus feel that christians have a right to worship whomever they wish. However, I do not at all share in their belief that Allah is not whole.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Salom,

I asked this question earlier, but received a confusing answer.

The question is: Does Judaism predate Islam?


Quite simply, I'd like to know when the religion of Islam began!

Waalaykum (Peace be to you as well) Jennifer,

Welcome to our forum, hope you will find us very interesting people : ) !!! Also, thanks for asking us a question about our religion. I will do my best to be concize and as helpful as possible.

To start with, I would like to cite meaning of the verses from the final revealtion of the One God to mankind:

And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islâmic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilâh (God) and your Ilâh (God) is One (i.e. Allâh), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)." (Al-'Ankabut 29:46)


No Religion predates the Message of Islaam not even Judaism nor Christianity. But if your question was in regards to Sharia/Legislation (the body of religious rules and laws about religious practices), then yes what we call today as Judaism predates Islaam. Musa alayhissalam received Towrah which formed the Shariah of his followers at that time whose children later called themselves Jews after distorting their religion, Iysa alayhissalam received Injeel and it formed the Sharia of his followers whose children and followers later called themselves Christians after distorting their religion.

The final Shariah is the Shariah of Muhammad alayhissalati wassalam that abolished some of the previous laws or added some more laws and has taken effect as only source of obedience to the all mighty Lord of the Alameen/Worlds, Allah, the only One deserving to be Worshipped.


Jews claimed they followed their forefather Ibraheem in his (alayhissalati wassalam) religion. And Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob or Israel (as was his nickname) followed none other than Islaamic faith, so did Ibraaheem's other descendants including Musa, Jonah, Joseph, John, Jesus and Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all!!!

Proofs for my statements lie in here:

Ibrâhim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism - to worship none but Allâh Alone) and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn (See V.2:105). (Aali Imran 3:67)

And this (submission to Allâh, Islâm) was enjoined by Ibrâhim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya'qûb (Jacob), (saying), "O my sons! Allâh has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islâm (as Muslims - Islâmic Monotheism)." (Al-Baqarah 2:132)


Then when 'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allâh's Cause?" Al-Hawâriûn (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allâh; we believe in Allâh, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allâh)." (Aali Imran 3:52)

And when I (Allâh) put in the hearts of Al-Hawârîeen (the disciples) [of 'Iesa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims." (Al-Ma'idah 5:111)


And Mûsa (Moses) said: "O my people! If you have believed in Allâh, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims (those who submit to Allâh's Will)." (Yunus 10:84)

And strive hard in Allâh's Cause as you ought to strive (with sincerity and with all your efforts that His Name should be superior). He has chosen you (to convey His Message of Islâmic Monotheism to mankind by inviting them to His religion, Islâm), and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship, it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham) (Islâmic Monotheism).

It is He (Allâh) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Qur'ân), that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind! So perform As*Salât (Iqamat-as-Salât), give Zakât and hold fast to Allâh [i.e. have confidence in Allâh, and depend upon Him in all your affairs] He is your Maula (Patron, Lord, etc.), what an Excellent Maula (Patron, Lord, etc.) and what an Excellent Helper! (Al-Hajj 22:78)


And for the fact that only Islaam be acceepted as a religion:

"Be you not exalted against me, but come to me as Muslims (true believers who submit to Allâh with full submission)'" (An-Naml 27:31)

Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâm. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account. (Aali Imran 3:19)

Thanks very much for your patience if you are reading this section. I hope I was helpful in this matter. Of course, you might say "You have quoted only Islaamic sources", my response would be, "there is no better & reliable source than this. I will conclude my post with:

So if they dispute with you (Muhammad SAW) say: "I have submitted myself to Allâh (in Islâm), and (so have) those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves (to Allâh in Islâm)?" If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allâh is All-Seer of (His ) slaves. (Aali Imran 3:20)

[-JUST-]

If Islam predates Judaism, then why wasn't Islam mentioned at all in either the Torah or Christian Bible? Even though the Christian Bible wasn't kind to Jews, it did mention them.

The name Islam is an arabic word implying Peace and Submission. People did not pick this name but Allah gave this name in the Quran to Muhammad (peace be upon him). And until that time, the word Islam was not used. So obviously "Islam" could not have been mentioned in Torah or Bible. Thus, when muslims say that Islam existed since the existence of Adam and Eve, they mean that Adam and Eve and all the previous prophets believed in Allah alone. And the message of all previous prophets was one and identical. Prophets were sent down to Earth to call people to worship Allah, whenever ignorance and transgression prevailed in the society. However, after the prophets left, people manipulated the trust that was given to them and changed the Holy Scriptures to suit their personal interests.

How do you know that someone tampered with the Torah? Is there any other religion (other than Islam) that also believe that?

There's no other religion that claims that. In fact, the claims that Jews and Christians have distorted the true teachings of their Prophets in the scriptures is conveyed to muslims in Quran, via words of Allah. For muslims it is a proof. For non-muslims, I would suggest to research about the authenticity and compiliation process of the scripts in the Torah and Bible. There are numerous scholarly works by non-muslim scholars documenting the instances of changes made in the Torah and Bible.

Why doesn't the non-Muslim world accept that Islam predates either Christianity or Judaism?

This is a self-contradicting question. When the "non-muslim" world accept that Islam, with it's MAIN message (i.e. There's no God but Allah), was the same message that Adam and Eve believed, and all the previous prophets believed then they will indirectly affirm the validity the message of Islam as being the original message. Thus indirectly invalidating the message of Judaism (Jews are the chosen people of God) and the message of Christianity (Jesus was God incarnate (in human flesh)). So when you ask this question, the natural response is: d'uh!

Why do history books say that people were polytheists before Abraham?

Polytheists have existed since some people have left the right path and have fallen into ingnorance as to who is their God, and started worshipping idols,nature,animals,people etc. The biggest sin in the sight of Allah, is when people associate partners unto Allah. Thus, everytime polytheists prevailed in the society and ignorance and tyrrany spread in the society, Allah out of his mercy to humans, sent prophets to call the people to the right path for their own good. So polytheism existed before prophet Noah, before prophet Abraham (peace be upon them). I reiterate this point again that prophets were sent only for one reason, that is to cleanse from polytheism the family,tribe or a nation that they were sent to and connect the people back to One God, Allah.

I thought (and I'm not claiming this to be true, as I'm certainly in the learning process!) that Ishmael (I apologize if that is misspelled), the son of Abraham, was the first descendant of Islam. That's what is being taught in many (if not most) university classes.

That's exactly how Jews would like to portray the difference between Islam and Judaism stating that Jewish prophets came from Abraham's (peace be upon him) son Isaac (peace be upon him) and Muhammad (peace be upon him) came from progeny of Ismael (peace be upon him). This way people think Christianity and Judaism both originate from Isaac's(peace be upon him) progeny and Islam originates from Ismael's progeny i.e. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), thus separating Judeo-Christian from Islam. Again it depends on who teaches this material, most of the so called "experts" are
from the judeo-christian background and they have all the incentives to teach that Islam really originated with the birth of Ismael(peace be upon him) and Judeo-Christian traditions with Abraham (peace be upon him). But this is not how it is taught in Islamic Universities. So it depends who teaches it, i.e. in America the Judeo-Christian traditions believe like you mentioned, and in Islamic countries it's taught the way I described.

Again, I thought that people were polytheistic prior to Abraham. Where is there evidence that the majority of people worshipped only Allah before Abraham?

Polytheists came into existence when humandkind have submitted themselves to their own pleasures/wishes and rebelled against their Creator by following the ways of Satan. And we muslims believe in this as we are told by Allah in the Quran. The proof is Quran.

I'd very much like to see some websites that are not Islamic/Muslim that address my questions. Again, I'd love to see some non-Islamic sources. The non-Islamic world is not being taught what you are. I'm not saying who is right or wrong, but if you do your own research outside of Islam, you will see that it is commonly accepted that Christianity and Islam are off-shoots of Judaism. That is not my opinion, but I'm just saying that is what is being taught.

Muslims are aware of the fact that most of the non-muslim world believes the Judeo-Christian definition of Islam, saying that it is the offshoot of the Judaism. And I think people believe that because it's coming from the Judeo-Christian source thus implying that it is supposedly "unbiased". But one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know that each religion would be biased against others and favor their own.

Thus, to cut to the chase, if you really want to learn a religion then you must read its scriptures not what someone else thinks and tells you what it is. So I would urge you to go and read the Quran and Bible and if you'd like Torah, and make your own conclusion by using your intellect and listenning to your heart.

Morever, everything in this world bears a proof for the existence of the sole Creator, but might not be evident to all people. Even the most evident things might not prove anything to those people, who do not want to believe. So if you don't want to believe what the forum users have posted based on their faith Islam, then nothing we say would convince you.

Faith is not seeing and believing, neither is it blind. If God showed himself then people would have no choice but to accept the truth. Or if faith was to be followed blindly then it would be justifiable to follow any religion he or she would want to follow. Thus one must use his/her intellect and listen to their heart, for God knows the sincere seeker and will guide them, as long as the person sincerely asks for guidance. You'll find what you are looking for.

[Jennifer]

Salom!

I’m afraid this holiday weekend (for Americans) turned out to be much busier than I ever expected. I apologize for the delay.

Referee said: And Islam is not the modified version, but the accurate version of the same revelation which other Prophets were trying to convey to their peoples, who have consequently altered, edited and corrupted the only and true revelation...

That might be where some people are having trouble with establishing Islam before Judaism or Christianity – the Qu’ran was not written until after the other ones.

And Islam is not the modified version, but the accurate version of the same revelation which other Prophets were trying to convey to their peoples, who have consequently altered, edited and corrupted the only and true revelation...


Since the others holy books (Bible and Torah) were written first, it really sounds like you’re making a case for Islam to be an updated version of Judaism/Christianity. I’m not saying it is that way, but that what your statement sounds like to me.

Where is the revelation written before the Qu’ran?

Do Muslims believe that Ishmael is the illegitimate son of Abraham?

Muhlis said, Then she will write a "research/scholary" article to discredit Islam among Christians and Jews.

It’s funny how people seem to put words in my mouth! I am a writer but I do not write about religious issues at all. I only mentioned my profession when discussing the validity and reliability of sources.

Please understand, Holy Books and messengers are not sent to humans to inform about the next prophet, they primarily are sent to call people to the right path and warn about the last day.

Then it’s possible that yet another religion will emerge that discounts Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, just like Islam did to Judaism and Christianity.

Therefore, even tough it might be quite disappointing for you, Nohchi or Chechens were monotheists for much longer period than Jews.

Are there any non-Islamic sources that agree? (I’m not saying it isn’t true, but I’m curious to know if Islamics are generally the only ones who agree) Did they establish any kind of religion or have any religious practices?

Referee said, “that Islam would be a religion followed by today's Jews and Christians were it not that some people in the past did not misinterprete, alter and corrupt the same revelation in spirit sent to them via Ibrahim, Dawood, Musa and Isa...”

Is it only the Qu’ran that says the other religions misinterpreted, altered, and corrupted the revelation?

Akhee-Abdullah said: But if your question was in regards to Sharia/Legislation (the body of religious rules and laws about religious practices), then yes what we call today as Judaism predates Islaam.

Waalaykum Akhee-Abdullah!!!!! You expressed that perfectly and simplified and answered the question very succinctly. May Allah bless you kindly.

Musa alayhissalam received Towrah which formed the Shariah of his followers at that time whose children later called themselves Jews after distorting their religion

How did Jews do that?

Just said So polytheism existed before prophet Noah, before prophet Abraham (peace be upon them). I reiterate this point again that prophets were sent only for one reason, that is to cleanse from polytheism the family,tribe or a nation that they were sent to and connect the people back to One God, Allah.

Okay, I understand.

That's exactly how Jews would like to portray the difference between Islam and Judaism stating that Jewish prophets came from Abraham's (peace be upon him) son Isaac (peace be upon him) and Muhammad (peace be upon him) came from progeny of Ismael (peace be upon him). This way people think Christianity and Judaism both originate from Isaac's(peace be upon him) progeny and Islam originates from Ismael's progeny i.e. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), thus separating Judeo-Christian from Islam.

Yes, that’s what is generally being taught academically today (not by Muslims, of course, and not only by Christians and Jews). But I do understand what you’re saying.

Polytheists came into existence when humandkind have submitted themselves to their own pleasures/wishes and rebelled against their Creator by following the ways of Satan.

Didn’t that begin with Eve eating an apple?

And I think people believe that because it's coming from the Judeo-Christian source thus implying that it is supposedly "unbiased". But one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know that each religion would be biased against others and favor their own.

I agree very much.

Thus one must use his/her intellect and listen to their heart, for God knows the sincere seeker and will guide them, as long as the person sincerely asks for guidance. You'll find what you are looking for.


Big question: what if a person is sincere, and yet feels that Allah has shown him another path? Does Islamics truly believe in freedom of religion?

Here is what I simply do not understand. First, there are extremists in every religion and those extremists give a very bad name to their respective religions, no matter what the religion. Yet, some very vocal Islamic extremists seem to kill innocent people for no reason other than their not being Muslim. Why? How can they justify their actions?

I can only speak from the heart in this matter. I firmly believe Allah is looking down in disgust at those who are dirtying His Name to justify their crimes. I firmly believe that Allah would rather us lead good lives and be civil and just to one another rather than commit crimes against those who don’t follow certain beliefs.

My best to all. And I appreciate the time that you've taken to reply. Thank you!

[-JUST-]

Quote:
Polytheists came into existence when humandkind have submitted themselves to their own pleasures/wishes and rebelled against their Creator by following the ways of Satan.


Didn’t that begin with Eve eating an apple?

Actually in islam there's no concept of "original sin" as it exists in Christianity. In Quran, Allah tells us that both Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree (no mentione of apple or anything else).

Allah the Almighty addressed him (Adam): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily Satan is an open enemy unto you?" They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers." Allah said; "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other (Adam, Eve, and Satan etc). On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment, for a time." He said: "Therein you shall live and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (resurrected)." (7:22-25).

Before his death Adam reassured his children that Allah would not leave man alone on the earth, but would sent His prophets to guide them. the prophets would have different names, traits and miracles, but they would be united in one thing; the call to worship Allah alone. This was Adam's bequest to his children. Adam finished speaking and closed his eyes. Then the angels entered his room and surrounded him. When he recognized the Angel of Death among them, his heart smiled peacefully.

To read more about the story of creation of Adam and his life go here (http://www.angelfire.com/on/ummiby1/adam2.html).

I put the latter passage though it might seem little off topic, but it is to make you understand that in Islam the #1 enemy of people is Satan, then it is our base self, then it is the enemy of Islam. It was Satan that caused Adam and Eve(peace be upon them) to err and disobey and it was Satan that caused Cain to kill Abel, both children of Adam (peace be upon him) and he will continue to mislead humanbeing till the doom's day. And all the propaganda, and wars being raged against Islam is only a result of Saytan's work, for he knows well that muslims are on the right path and he doesn't have to worry about others for they are already misguided. Please read the story of the Adam and Eve (peace be upon them ), it's not too long and you'll start understanding why all the bad things are happening in the world.

ig question: what if a person is sincere, and yet feels that Allah has shown him another path?

Being sincere doesn't mean being comfortable in whatever faith he's in, because people usually tend to judge religions using their own preferences as a criterion. So if a certain religion seem to restrict certain aspect of individual's life which he/she likes so much, they would just avoid that religion. Isn't it how it is most of the time???

Being sincere means, putting aside all of the one's desires, biases, preferences and honestly ask ..."Oh God, it's really confusing out there and I can't tell what is the right path. You guide me, show me the truth and I will accept it. I need your help, for I am weak and clueless."

But in the meantime the person has to seek the truth by whatever means he or she can. Read, reseach, ask..etc, keep asking God till you get the answer. The price of guidance isn't cheap for the peace and calm that come as a result of finding truth aren't obtained through anything else through Allah.

And then, the person will know...only that person will know. God will not leave anyone astray if they sincerely seek the truth, especially when they ask him to be guided.

But, you hear a lot of stories like these in other religions too, right? Of course we don't know what is inside the hearts of the people, so that part we will never know. People just listen to their emotions most of the time, do not use their Godgiven brains to reason, thus only listenning to heart isn't sufficient. For every religious person, be it christian, jew or muslim feels something in their hearts otherwise they wouldn't be worshipping. So, the truth can be found out by asking questions, using reason and asking for guidance. At the end of the day, it's God who gives guidance to whom He wills.

But one thing for sure is that, if God is one, then there can be only One truth. And I don't think God, who loves us more than our own mother, would want us to see bewildered and lost...thus, wouldn't want to have His identity and religion be complex rather simple.

Does Islamics truly believe in freedom of religion?

With all due respect, please don't use labels "Islamics", which media and others use to refer to muslims. Islam is our religion and those who follow it are muslims, these are both names given by Almighty Allah to those who live according to his laws as described in Quran and Hadith.

As to your question about freedom of religion Islam prohibits forcing anyone into religion and Allah made it clear to muslims in the Quran (Chapter 2 Verse 256): “Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands put clear from error.” (Al-Baqarah: 256)

Here is what I simply do not understand. First, there are extremists in every religion and those extremists give a very bad name to their respective religions, no matter what the religion. Yet, some very vocal Islamic extremists seem to kill innocent people for no reason other than their not being Muslim. Why? How can they justify their actions?

Can you give an example??? Because I don't know of any muslims who kill people on the basis that they are not muslims. If they are doing what you say they are doing, then they are utterly wrong for there is no basis for it in Islam.

As I mentioned above, the Quran makes it clear as black on white: “Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands put clear from error.” (Al-Baqarah: 256) And history speaks for it. If you can go and read the history of Crusades or even after the crusade era. Do you know that there are millions of christian arabs (coptic) in the Middle East??? If Islam advocated killing non-muslims then not a single one of them would have been left and countless volumes of history books would have been written about massacres of muslims. Even in the face of the massacre commited by the European crusaders, which drenched Jeruslam with muslim, christian and jewish blood muslims did not retaliate. This is not fiction but a fact, which many if not most non-muslim, even christian scholars acknowledge. So please, read the history books when you get a chance.

Jennifer, I've got a favor to ask you, please read the Quran for yourself and Bible any any other book you want, I'm sure it will clear your minds from confusions. Or at least read some books about the History of Islam from the period of Muhammad (peace be upon him) or about his life. You can't expect to get to bottom of truth just by discussing here on the forum. As I said earlier, the price of guidance isn't cheap...neither is the pleasure of God.