Famous People Describe Jesus/Buyuk Insonlar Iso Haqida

[Shogird]

Note:

This Thread was created to show how famous people (Christian and non-christian, believers and atheists) understood the personality of Jesus Christ.


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http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/25_150a.gif


Theodore Roosevelt
26th President (United States)

(My) great joy and glory that, in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of The Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world.

Source:America's God and Country, by William J. Federer
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Kim Dae-jung


http://www.aasianst.org/EAA/KimDae-Jung.jpg

President (South Korea)

Love of God does not mean we must love Him first. Rather, He loved us first, creating the world and leaving it in our care, sending His only son to us to spread the gospel, and, finally, opening the way for us to deliver ourselves from sin through the crucifixion of His innocent son, Jesus. Through Jesus' resurrection, God gave us hope for eternal life. God is with you at this very moment. He loves you, and He creates the good for you from all the right and wrong in your life when you genuinely believe in and obey Him
Source:Letter from prison to his son when Dae-jung was imprisoned after losing the 1971 bid for presidency in a fraudulent election.

[Shogird]

Vladimir Putin
President (Russia)
Moscow Times.Jan. 21, 2001

Why did Christ come into the world? To liberate people from sickness, troubles, from death. In its essence, Christmas is a holiday of hope.

[Shogird]

Fidel Castro
Leader (Cuba)
Slogan on Havana billboards

To betray the poor is to betray Christ.

[Shogird]

Cornelius Tacitus,
Roman Historian, about execution of Jesus.
55-117 AD

Source:Ch. XV (said to be the first historical reference to Jesus Christ)

Christus... suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.

[Shogird]

Fyodor Dostoyevski
Russian Novelist

"The Brothers Karamazov"

They think to order all things wisely; but having rejected Christ they will end by drenching the world with blood

[Pinkie]

Fidel Castro

Leader (Cuba)
Slogan on Havana billboards

Interesting that a man like Fidel Castro would say that...

[infolife]

chunmadim bo'tta nimani isbotlamoqchisizu no
It's really shame that in today's world ppl don't celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday. Some even dunno what it is. All they know is go out, get pissed, spend loads $ on presents and get presents.:?
Vladimir Putin
President (Russia)
Moscow Times.Jan. 21, 2001

[Shogird]

http://www.jaiyingyang.com/photos/uncategorized/palest001.jpg

President [deceased] Yasser Arafat speech addressed
to the 14th Arab Summit in Beirut
Source:Jerusalem Media & Communication Centre
http://www.jmcc.org/new/02/mar/arafat.htm


Masses of our Arab nation, friends the world over and in Palestine, I am addressing you from the land of Palestine, the land of peace, the holy land -- the Terra Sancta -- the first of the two Qiblas and the third of the holy mosques, the land of the nocturnal journey of Prophet Muhammad (may God's peace be upon him) and the place of the nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Peace be upon him), I have come to you as well from the midst of its people, faithful to their Arab nation and who have been generous in an unlimited way to their cause, to their rights and to their holy places.

[Shogird]

http://gblx.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2005/03/29/1112108657_0.jpg

Albert Einstein

The Saturday Evening Post, in 1929


As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."
http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/reflections_volume_1/torrance.htm

[Ahmet]

And did You know what OUR Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h) said about You (and about those who think like You) in the Holy Koran???

[Jesus (p.b.u.h.)said],
"I said to them nothing but what You ordered me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness against them as long as I remained among them, but when You took me back to You [tawaffa], You were the One watching over them. You are the Witness of all things."
(Surat al-Ma'ida, 5:117)

[Shogird]

Quran. Sura 5:46. Marmaduke Pickthall's translation.

And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

[Ahmet]

Jawohl!

And now I'd like to hear your own opinion on Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h)

Who's Jesus?

[Shogird]

Jawohl!

And now I'd like to hear your own opinion on Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h)

Who's Jesus?

Naturlich!

My opinion is here:
http://www.forum.uz/showpost.php?p=344453&postcount=20

[Wolfman]

Shogird,

biz nima uchun biz, san bu yerda keltirayotgan, "mashhur" kishilarning Iso a.s. haqida aytilayotgan cho'pchaklariga ishonishimiz kerak? masalan, Mao Isoni "Osmonlar Imperiyasi" (China) ning barqarorligiga eng katta xavf" degan bo'sa, buni bizga nima aloqasi bor?

bizga Qur'on va Hadis yetarli, bu manbaalar orqali Iso a.s. ni juda yaxshi taniymiz. ustozlaringni afsonalari o'zingga buyursin, sandaqa nafsiga sig'inib ketganlar va odamlarni do'zaxga chorlaydiganlarning soni million bo'lganda ham Allohni makriga qarshi qo'llarindan nech narsa kelmas.

shundoq ekan, esing borida etagingni yig'da, bama'ni thread lar ochishni bas qil.

Stanley

[Shogird]

Shogird,

biz nima uchun biz, san bu yerda keltirayotgan, "mashhur" kishilarning Iso a.s. haqida aytilayotgan cho'pchaklariga ishonishimiz kerak? masalan, Mao Isoni "Osmonlar Imperiyasi" (China) ning barqarorligiga eng katta xavf" degan bo'sa, buni bizga nima aloqasi bor?

bizga Qur'on va Hadis yetarli, bu manbaalar orqali Iso a.s. ni juda yaxshi taniymiz. ustozlaringni afsonalari o'zingga buyursin, sandaqa nafsiga sig'inib ketganlar va odamlarni do'zaxga chorlaydiganlarning soni million bo'lganda ham Allohni makriga qarshi qo'llarindan nech narsa kelmas.

shundoq ekan, esing borida etagingni yig'da, bama'ni thread lar ochishni bas qil.

Stanley
Gap egasini topadi. O'qigingiz kelmasa o'qimang hech kim sizni zo'rlagan yo'q. Bu Forumning nomi Religiya i Cultura bu degani har hil madaniyat, din azolari bu erda qatnashishi mumkin. Internatda Diktatura yo'q hozircha.

[Ahmet]

Dear Shogird,

I've just read Your point of View about Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h) and frankly speaking this is My point of view:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Koran(109:1-6)


And now, what do you say about the Prophet Muhammed (s.a.a.s.)???,...the Prophet Muhammed (s.a.a.s.), the messenger of Allah and the seal of all the prophets???

[Shogird]

Dear Shogird,

I've just read Your point of View about Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h) and frankly speaking this is My point of view:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Koran(109:1-6)


And now, what do you say about the Prophet Muhammed (s.a.a.s.)???,...the Prophet Muhammed (s.a.a.s.), the messenger of Allah and the seal of all the prophets???



Ahmet thank you for reading my point of view. I have read yours. I am not expert about Prophet Muhammad's life. Ask someone who knows better, I am still learning. You will not agree with me anyway. This discussion is off-topic here. This thread has been created to show how famous and great people (Christian and Non-Christian) understood the personality of Jesus. Happy Holidays.

[Shogird]

http://www.griffith-h.schools.nsw.edu.au/gorbachev.jpg


Mikhail Gorbachev
(born 1931)
Last President of USSR



"Jesus was the first socialist, the first to seek a better life for mankind."
source: http://www.rejesus.co.uk/encounters/quote_unquote/late.html


Communist ideology in its pure form is akin to Christianity. Its main ideas are the brotherhood of all peoples iirespective of their nationality, justice and equality, ,peace, and end to all hostility between peoples. It is true that communist was used to comouflage a totalitarian regime.

Source: Mikhail Gorbachev. Memoirs. Doubleday. New York. 1995.

[Shogird]

http://www.rejesus.co.uk/encounters/quote_unquote/quote_media/gandhi.jpg

Mahatma Gandhi:


"A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies..."

[Shogird]

http://www.kazakhembus.com/files/Prezident_meets_Pope.JPG

Nursultan Nazarbayev
President of Kazakhstan

Mr. Nazarbayev said he had been "deeply touched" by the Pope's remarks at the Mass. "I am on your side when you speak of the civilization of love and trust among faiths," he said.
Source: Official Website of the Embassy of Kazakhstan to the USA
http://www.kazakhembus.com/Freedom_of_Religion.html


“The French King Louis XIV said: ‘When I name one person to a post, I create hundreds of dissatisfied [people] and one ingrate,'" Nazarbaev said. "And there is another story. As is well known, Jesus Christ had 12 apostles, he loved them all and treated them all equally. But once -- as is known to all from the famous painting 'The Last Supper' -- they sat at the table, one sat on the left side of Jesus and another on his right, and the other 10 started to become jealous, in particular Judas. Since that time, one such as Jesus is born rarely, and those like Judas cannot be exterminated like mosquitoes.”

Source: Radio Free Europe. http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/cde49d0c-2bc4-497d-b9b4-6a9d5cdc4b27.html

[Shogird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1715000/images/_1719931_lennon_gall.jpg
John Lennon, Beatles (1940-80)



We're more popular than Jesus now

:lol:

[Shogird]

Although Elvis sang Christian Songs in his early career we don't know whether he was Christian or not and whether he repented from his sins or not.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/142/069_3727_b.jpg
Elvis Presley
Singer

Elvis, when being called the King of Rock 'n' Roll, replied:
'There's only one King, that's Jesus Christ'. Or, so he sings in 'He is my everything': 'He is the King of all kings'.





Pastor Hamill, former pastor of First Assembly of God in Memphis, says that Presley visited him in the late 1950s, when he was at the height of his rock & roll powers, and testified: "Pastor, I'm the most miserable young man you've ever seen. I've got all the money I'll ever need to spend. I've got millions of fans. I've got friends. But I'm doing what you taught me not to do, and I'm not doing the things you taught me to do" (Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, p. 20).







Sample from his song: He touched Me
http://www.content.loudeye.com/scripts/hurl.exe?clipid=012062601010006900&cid=600111

[JAVA]

Vot prikol, mnogo mozhno komentirovat' no samoe prikol'noe i chto samoe glavnoe , eto to chto chasto mozhno uslyshat' ot christian, i to ozvuchil Gandi "A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies..."
No chitaya hristianskuyu bibliyu Iisus yavno "didn't offer himself as a sacrifice" voobshem...

[Shogird]

Vot prikol, mnogo mozhno komentirovat' no samoe prikol'noe i chto samoe glavnoe , eto to chto chasto mozhno uslyshat' ot christian, i to ozvuchil Gandi "A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies..."
No chitaya hristianskuyu bibliyu Iisus yavno "didn't offer himself as a sacrifice" voobshem...

Dear fellow forumer Java, I see your interest in shooting and hitting targets. But unfortunately you've missed your target here, dear friend. Read the Bible more carefully.
Whole Bible both Old and New Testament are filled with the concept of "sacrifice". When Adam & Eve sinned God killed the animals and gave them the animal skin as covering (before they were naked and did not know about that) and they were expelled from the garden of Eden. The concept of "sacrifice" started from that point on.
The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%206:23;&version=31;)). “The soul that sins will die” (Ezekiel 18:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezek.%208:14;&version=31;)). In the Garden God told Adam not to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree unless he would die. Adam & Eve disobeyed God and thus broke their relationship with God. Their punishment was death. Because of their sin God had to kill the animals and gave them their skin as covering. There is profound truth under this act. It was God's mercy to provided substitute payment for sin. As you know God ordered nation of Israel to bring animal & other sacrifices for their sins. Life is in the blood and Sin is covered by the blood. Every year Jewish highpriest was appointed to bring sacrifice for his sins and sins of his people and enter the presense of God. God's presense was in the midst of Israel in the tabernacle. Later King David build the temple for the tabernacle. This was the symbolic to the coming of Jesus Messiah that he would shed His blood as sacrifice and die for the sins of His people. After His resurection Jesus ascended to the presence of His Father God and became the Highpriest for His people.

He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26


By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.Hebrews 10:12-14

Read this attached file about why Jesus had to bring Himself as sacrifice for our sins.

[Shogird]

http://www.doingsuccess.com/images/picture-carnegie.jpg


Dale Carnegie


The ideas I stand for are not mine. I borrowed them from Socrates. I swiped them from Chesterfield. I stole them from Jesus. And I put them in a book. If you don't like their rules, whose would you use?

[Shogird]

http://www.souljoyrecords.com/images/Billy%20Graham.jpg

Billy Graham

Evangelist
http://billygraham.org/


No man ever loved like Jesus. He taught the blind to see and the dumb to speak. He died on the cross to save us. He bore our sins. And now God says, "Because He did, I can forgive you."

[SHOHRUHM1]

http://www.souljoyrecords.com/images/Billy%20Graham.jpg





Evangelist
http://billygraham.org/





Shogird please do not avoid these questions tell us the truth about the opinion of christianity i.e. interpretation of christians from BIBLICAL materials how they view Prophet Muhammad pboh, They claim that he was a false prohpet and they claim since he was a false prophet that he is inspired by devil, is that your view too?????? if not then, do you take Muhammad pboh as a prophet??? if not why you dont take above mentioned christian opinon as true??? if yes why u reject Muhammad's pboh news???? and if you reject prophet Muhammad's pboh massege, on what bases you conclude that his news is invalid and that he is one of those false prophets and why you dont think that those saints who contributed to Christianity and to your present belief, are not false prophets, why you dont think that non of those well known saints like paul was not inspired by devil or any other saint, and there are too many of them in christianity, and why you think that your stream, if u belong to particular one, is the true and right one, why prostistans are not right, if they r right, why catholics are wrong, or why ivangelists are right and the rest are wrong, or if they all right why they r not the same and differ in their practices, they all look in one book Bible, right????? , and as u said yourslef that u r not an expert on Muhammad's pboh life which means you dont know him well then why you take someone as a liar without knowing him well??? and last thing why u avoid answering questions and rather push your own ideas, why u dont give some thought to answer them to check them, to see if there is anything that makes the questioner so curious???
Answer these questions please, dont make a pretext takeing it as an off-top, even if it is. Be a man answer them directly without playing around!!!
thank you.

[JAVA]

http://www.souljoyrecords.com/images/Billy%20Graham.jpg




Billy Graham




Evangelist
http://billygraham.org/




Oh man, this old fart Billy Graham aka evangelist had guts to call our much beloved PROPHET Muhammad (SAW) a "pedophile, terrorist" , (this was a couple years ago,) and you have guts to mention his name here?????

[JAVA]

Dear fellow forumer Java, I see your interest in shooting and hitting targets. But unfortunately you've missed your target here, dear friend. Read the Bible more carefully and BLA BLA BLA.

Dear fellow forumer Shogird, ill get back to this later. Lets discuss the pornographic book bible first in the other thread you opened... and then we will discuss this topic ok?

[Shogird]

Shogird please do not avoid these questions tell us the truth about the opinion of christianity i.e. interpretation of christians from BIBLICAL materials how they view Prophet Muhammad pboh, They claim that he was a false prohpet and they claim since he was a false prophet that he is inspired by devil, is that your view too?????? if not then, do you take Muhammad pboh as a prophet??? if not why you dont take above mentioned christian opinon as true??? if yes why u reject Muhammad's pboh news???? and if you reject prophet Muhammad's pboh massege, on what bases you conclude that his news is invalid and that he is one of those false prophets and why you dont think that those saints who contributed to Christianity and to your present belief, are not false prophets, why you dont think that non of those well known saints like paul was not inspired by devil or any other saint, and there are too many of them in christianity, and why you think that your stream, if u belong to particular one, is the true and right one, why prostistans are not right, if they r right, why catholics are wrong, or why ivangelists are right and the rest are wrong, or if they all right why they r not the same and differ in their practices, they all look in one book Bible, right????? , and as u said yourslef that u r not an expert on Muhammad's pboh life which means you dont know him well then why you take someone as a liar without knowing him well??? and last thing why u avoid answering questions and rather push your own ideas, why u dont give some thought to answer them to check them, to see if there is anything that makes the questioner so curious???
Answer these questions please, dont make a pretext takeing it as an off-top, even if it is. Be a man answer them directly without playing around!!!
thank you.
Dear Shohruh,
Thank you for taking your time and to write your post. I appreciate your respectful attitude to your opponent. Honestly I've struggled with this question myself. It is not easy question. I am also product of your culture. I grew up in this environment. My friends and family members are also in Muslim culture. They are ordinary human beings and very good people. Personally no Muslim did bad thing to me (except some insults in this forum). As I mentioned in my story, I learned the basics about God from my Muslim grandma. May God bless her. I had only positive impressions about my culture. Of course there were some negative things but it is the part of any culture. Yes I know many Uzbek Muslim great scholars in our history. I read about positive contributions of Islamic culture to world civilization. I read Quranic verses; I read Hadith and other literature. I respect the ordinary Muslims aspiration to please God. Because of this I developed deep respect to spiritual things. I even once attempted to start Islamic party, not to subjugate the country to Sharia but I thought Islam had the all the ideals and society needed to be guided by these ideals.

You are accusing me that I am pushing my ideas. The reason I am doing this is to show my basic beliefs, because most often when you are in heated discussion people want to win, they don't care about listening or finding the truth together. They have preconceived ideas and doctrines. I am here in this forum for some time and I see militant attitude toward those who think differently. There is no patience and respect. The greatest qualities of Uzbeks are patience and respect. But I don't see it here.

If you agree to learn together I am ready to investigate together. I know you adherent to your faith and I am adherent to mine. You have your duty to Dawa and I have the duty from Lord Jesus Christ to witness to the Good News of Jesus Christ.

I will continue our discussion when I see the civilized way of communication in this forum (Religion & Culture Forum) when all forum guidelines are enforced by moderators (Warning insulting sides, removing inappropriate posts after initial warning).
That way everyone’s rights are respected and we will have the truly civilized and democratic society here in this forum which we don't have in our country.

[SHOHRUHM1]

Dear Shohruh,
Thank you for taking your time and to write your post. I appreciate your respectful attitude to your opponent. Honestly I've struggled with this question myself. It is not easy question. I am also product of your culture. I grew up in this environment. My friends and family members are also in Muslim culture. They are ordinary human beings and very good people. Personally no Muslim did bad thing to me (except some insults in this forum). As I mentioned in my story, I learned the basics about God from my Muslim grandma. May God bless her. I had only positive impressions about my culture. Of course there were some negative things but it is the part of any culture. Yes I know many Uzbek Muslim great scholars in our history. I read about positive contributions of Islamic culture to world civilization. I read Quranic verses; I read Hadith and other literature. I respect the ordinary Muslims aspiration to please God. Because of this I developed deep respect to spiritual things. I even once attempted to start Islamic party, not to subjugate the country to Sharia but I thought Islam had the all the ideals and society needed to be guided by these ideals.

You are accusing me that I am pushing my ideas. The reason I am doing this is to show my basic beliefs, because most often when you are in heated discussion people want to win, they don't care about listening or finding the truth together. They have preconceived ideas and doctrines. I am here in this forum for some time and I see militant attitude toward those who think differently. There is no patience and respect. One of the greatest qualities of Islam is patience and respect. But I don't see it here.

If you agree to learn together I am ready to investigate together. I know you adherent to your faith and I am adherent to mine. You have your duty to Dawa and I have the duty from Lord Jesus Christ to witness to the Good News of Jesus Christ.

I will continue our discussion when I see the civilized way of communication in this forum (Religion & Culture Forum) when all forum guidelines are enforced by moderators (Warning insulting sides, removing inappropriate posts after initial warning).
That way everyone’s rights are respected and we will have the truly civilized and democratic society here in this forum which we don't have in our country.

1 of all Islam is religion of justice and tolerance. no respect but tolerance to those who reject the words of Almighty.

2 of all you did not answer to any of my questions, you r again playing around not a singe direct answer, please refer to the questions again and answer them 1 by 1 then we will have discussion and we will see who respects who or tolerats.

3 of all, exactly "The reason I am doing this is to show my basic beliefs, because most often when you are in heated discussion people want to win, they don't care about listening or finding the truth together." (this is your statement)
for this reason you r missing main point of all these arguments, you r not considering things, u r rejecting because u r afraid to find yourself pereplexed into those valid proves, grounds that were presented to you. this is not the way u find the truth fellow. you should examine the opposite site very very carefully without biased eye to prove that you side is the true one.Answer these questions and all the questions presented by DJIGIT.
Salam

[HarunYahya]

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/res/49.jpg

Prophet Jesus (pbuh) Will Not Bring a New Religion


He will lead as you for 40 years according to the Book of your Lord and the sunnah of your Apostle, and then die. (Sahih Muslim)

Jesus [pbuh] will not come to the people of Mohammed as a Prophet, but to practice the religion of Mohammed� (Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Al-Qawl al-Mukhtasar fi `Alamat al-Mahdi al-Muntazar, p. 68)

Jesus (pbuh) will descend and will practice our Prophet's (may God bless him and grant him peace) law. (Imam Rabbani, Letters of Rabbani, vol. 2, p. 1309)

He will judge by the law of Mohammed, will adhere to a Prophet even though he is one himself, and will belong to the people of Mohammed� He will be the people of the Prophet, and he will be the most devoted among them� (Muhammad ibn `Abd ar-Rasul Barzanji, Al-Isha`ah li- -Ashrat as-Sa`ah, p. 243)

No Prophet shall come during the period between me [Mohammed] and Jesus (pbuh). And Jesus [pbuh] shall descend. Recognize him when you see him: A man of medium height and of a ruddy, fair complexion. He will be dressed in two pieces of a yellow garment. The hair of his head will appear as if water is trickling out of it, although his hair will not be wet. He will fight for the cause of Islam... And Jesus (pbuh) will kill the Antichrist [Dajjal]. He will live on this Earth for a period of 40 years and, at the end of this period, will pass away. The Muslims will offer the funeral prayers of Jesus [pbuh]. (Ibn Ahmad Hanbal, Musnad)

[Shogird]

http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/res/49.jpg







Prophet Jesus (pbuh) Will Not Bring a New Religion

Yes you are right Not New Religion but Good News of Hope and Salvation.

Note: I assume those quoted people are internationally famous enough to be posted in this thread. Nothing against them. I have never heard about them before.

[Shogird]

http://www.chucknorris.com/images/mission/P13_A.jpg

Chuck Norris
Sportsman/Actor

Besides teaching them martial arts skills, students of KICKSTART get positively affirmed and even a dose of Bible principles.
Norris explained, "The martial arts is a philosophy that is pretty much the principles in the Bible. Even though we can’t talk about Jesus, we can talk about what Jesus talks about in the Bible – love, loving your neighbor, being good people. Even though we can’t quote Scripture, we can say what Jesus says in the Bible or what the Apostle Paul says or what St. Peter says. We can say that in an indirect way, which we do."
More info:
http://www.cbn.com/entertainment/screen/bagby_chucknorris_0904.asp



http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/MMPH/24814.jpg
Photo: Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris

[Shogird]

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/virtual/portrait/napoleon.jpg

Napoleon Bonaparte
French statesman and soldier (Emperor: 1804-1815)

Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I founded great empires. But upon what did the creation of our genius depend? Upon force. Jesus alone founded his empire upon love, and to this very day millions would die for him.

[SHOHRUHM1]

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/virtual/portrait/napoleon.jpg



Napoleon Bonaparte
French statesman and soldier (Emperor: 1804-1815)




WHy y r not answering to my questions please answer them. LOOK when u have good challenge u always avoid, cuz u r weak u dont have proves even to prove to your ownself u r not even honest with your oenself. ANSWER to my questions if u can

[Shogird]

WHy y r not answering to my questions please answer them. LOOK when u have good challenge u always avoid, cuz u r weak u dont have proves even to prove to your ownself u r not even honest with your oenself. ANSWER to my questions if u can

I am here. I am busy with my work. I am not professional forum writer. When I will have time I will write. I remember your questions.

LOOK when u have good challenge u always avoid, cuz u r weak u dont have proves even to prove to your ownself u r not even honest with your oenself.

I am honest with myself that is why I am writinng about my faith. I have nothing to fear. Uzbeks have sayings Jo'jani kuzda sanaymiz
So don't make early conclusions.

[SHOHRUHM1]

I am here. I am busy with my work. I am not professional forum writer. When I will have time I will write. I remember your questions.



I am honest with myself that is why I am writinng about my faith. I have nothing to fear. Uzbeks have sayings
So don't make early conclusions.

:) oh man you show it now blank, non of your posts r your own u cant think for your self you just went to get some help cant get it on time cant answer questions on your own immidaitely.
Went to your fathers, preachers to get some ideas??? lol

No more talks with you. NO wonder why they played with your brain so easily. So do your blind worship until your neurons will strat connecting and u will start thinking.
PEACE puppet

[Shogird]

well, you've just disqualified yourself from discussion. I have no desire to continue my conversation with person who's goal is insult others.
You just showed your religion by your action. I don't need any other proof. I've seen that many many times.

I wish you happy holiday and enjoy your freedom in the country (USA) which was built on Christian principles (unfortunately it is becoming more secular these days)

[JAVA]

I wish you happy holiday and enjoy your freedom in the country (USA) which was built on Christian principles (unfortunately it is becoming more secular these days)

Yeah, genocide of native americans is a christian principle.

[JAVA]

sorry, i wanted to say slavery is a christian princeple...or on of them

[tarafdor]

Quran. Sura 5:46. Marmaduke Pickthall's translation.And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

chalasavod shogird...da*ba**b bu bilan nima demoqchisan?...Birinchidan bu oyat sani ochgan threadinga hech ham tegishli joyi yuq..chunki buni famous people emas Olloh yuborgan oyat...ikkinchidan esa bu yerda Iso a.s ning Xudo ekanligi haqida hech narsa yuq...yani buning manosi shunday sanga hozir primoy tarjima qilaman; ..
O'zidan oldin kelgan Tavrotni tugirlash uchun va paygambalarning izlaridan(orqalaridan), Maryam ugli Isoni yubordik. Va unga, haqiqatga rahbarlik va oydinlik bulishlik uchun, o'zidan oldingni Tavrotni tasdiqlash uchun, taqvodorlarga hidoyat va nasihat bulishligi uchun Injil'ni berdik.

Bu yerda Iso a.s bir butun zanjirni bir bulagi sifatida kursatilayapti....darov uzinga mos ravishda eloborate qilma...:lol:

[tarafdor]

Sanga bitta falsafiy tushuncha bermoqhiman...balki bu threadning zero ekanligiga ishonch hosil qilasan...hristian bulmaganlar Hristianlikning notugri ekanligini hamma joyda va hamma vaqt hozirgidek aytib kelishadi...lekin davlat arboblari esa siyosiy aloqalarning buzilmasligi uchun chiroyli gap aytadilar....bu yangilik emas. :lol:

[tarafdor]

Note:

This Thread was created to show how famous people (Christian and non-christian, believers and atheists) understood the personality of Jesus Christ.






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http://www.americanpresidents.org/images/25_150a.gif



Theodore Roosevelt


26th President (United States)


Source:America's God and Country, by William J. Federer
----------------------------------------------------------






Kim Dae-jung




President (South Korea)




Source:Letter from prison to his son when Dae-jung was imprisoned after losing the 1971 bid for presidency in a fraudulent election.






The following list of influential figures from world history comes from Michael H. Hart's(Christian) book The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History. In the book, Hart provides brief biographies of each of the individuals, as well as reasons for their ranking.
RankNameReligious AffiliationInfluence
1Muhammad Islam
2 Isaac NewtonAnglican of the Primitive Church) (http://www.adherents.com/people/pn/Isaac_Newton.html) physicist; theory of universal gravitation; laws of motion
3Jesus Christ * (http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html#jesus)Judaism; Christianity

So here's the question...Why Jesus (a.s) is the 3rd in this ranking but not 1st? http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html (http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html)

[Shogird]

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/lincoln-abraham.jpg
Abraham Lincoln
President of USA
"Lincoln is most famous for his roles in preserving the Union and ending slavery (http://www.forum.uz/wiki/Slavery) ....." Source. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln)


I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior (Jesus) of the world is communicated to us through this book.
Tarjimasi: Men ishonamanki Bibliya insoniyatga Hudo tomonidan berilgan eng oliy hadyadir. Najotkor Iso Masihdan eng oliy himmat narsalar dunyoga shu kitob orqali etkazilgan

[Shogird]

http://library.thinkquest.org/CR0212302/motherteresachild.gif
Mother Teresa

You will never know that Jesus is all you need until Jesus is all you've got.

[Shogird]

http://www.dimensionsoftruth.org/pics/t_austin_sparks.jpg
Christianity is not a doctrine, not truth as truth, but the knowledge of a Person; it is knowing the Lord Jesus. You cannot be educated into being a Christian.
T. Austin-Sparks has been described as one of the greatest spiritual, Christ-centered figures of the twentieth century.

http://www.churchinwestland.org/id574.htm

[SHOHRUHM1]

Contradictions in the Bible

Here is some Famous Bible writers made some contradictions. Obvious to a sane man.

Example ............

24. Robbery commanded Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36 Robbery forbidden Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15 25. Lying approved and sanctioned Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22 Lying forbidden Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8 27. Killing commanded Ex 32:27 Killing forbidden Ex 20:13 28. The blood-shedder must die Gen 9:5,6 The blood-shedder must not die Gen 4:15 29. The making of images forbidden Ex 20:4 The making of images commanded Ex 25:18,20 30. Slavery and oppression ordained Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8 Slavery and oppression forbidden Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10 32. Anger approved Eph 4:26 Anger disapproved Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20 33. Good works to be seen of men Matt 5:16 Good works not to be seen of men Matt 6:1 34. Judging of others forbidden Matt 7:1,2 Judging of others approved 1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12 39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5 The wearing of long hair by men condemned 1 Cor 11:14 46. Taking of oaths sanctioned Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13 Taking of oaths forbidden Matt 5:34

[JAVA]

Shogird seryozno vlip...

[Shogird]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/33/250px-Giuseppe_Garibaldi_%281866%29.jpg

Giuseppe Garibaldi

I love and venerate the religion of Christ, because Christ came into the world to deliver humanity from slavery, for which God had not created it.

Giuseppe Garibaldi

Italian general and nationalist who led 1,000 volunteers in the capture of Sicily and Naples (1860). His conquest led to the formation of the kingdom of Italy (1861).
1807–82, Italian patriot and soldier, a leading figure in the Risorgimento (http://www.forum.uz/main/ntquery;jsessionid=frtme23o6ca8c?method=4&dsid=2040&dekey=Risorgim&gwp=8&curtab=2040_1&sbid=lc02a). He remains perhaps the most popular of all Italian heroes of the Risorgimento, and a great revolutionary hero in the Western world.
http://www.answers.com/topic/giuseppe-garibaldi

[Shogird]

O'zidan oldin kelgan Tavrotni tugirlash uchun va paygambalarning izlaridan(orqalaridan), Maryam ugli Isoni yubordik. Va unga, haqiqatga rahbarlik va oydinlik bulishlik uchun, o'zidan oldingni Tavrotni tasdiqlash uchun, taqvodorlarga hidoyat va nasihat bulishligi uchun Injil'ni berdik.


Iso Tavrotni tug'rilash uchun kelmadi, adashmang. Tavrotning amallarini va Masih haqidagi bashoratlarni amalga oshirish uchun Iso keldi. O'ylashingiz bo'yicha huddi Tavrot o'zgartirilganu Iso uni tuzatishga kelgan, undan keyin Injil o'zgarib qolibtiki Muhammad uni tuzatishga kelgan ekan. Noto'g'ri o'ylash bu. Hudo o'z so'zini himoya qilishga qodir. Muqaddas Kitob aytishi bo'yicha Hudo so'zi doim mustahkam:Ishaya Payg'ambar shunday degan:
The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8


But the word of the LORD endures forever." Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 Peter 1:25

[ДЖИГИТ]

1- Jesus saying "I am":

From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty rest his soul and grant him Paradise (Ameen):

It is claimed that Jesus used the words, "I am", and since these same words were used by God to describe Himself to the people in the Old Testament, Jesus was claiming to be God. John 8:58, is presented to back this claim. In the verse, Jesus says: " Before Abraham was I am. (John 8:58)" Now, if Jesus existed before Abraham did, that might be a remarkable thing, but does that prove that he was God?

How many people existed before Abraham? The Bible presents Jeremiah as being a prophet before he was conceived in his mother's womb; "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" Yet no one says that his pre-human existence qualifies him for deity. In Exodus chapter 3, God allegedly says: "I am what I am." Long before the time of Jesus, there existed a Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. The key word, "I am," in Exodus which is used by Christians to prove the deity of Jesus is translated as "HO ON." However, when Jesus uses the word in John 8:58 the Greek of the "I am," is EGO EIMI. If Jesus wanted to tell the Jews that he was claiming to be God he should have at least remained consistent in the use of words or the whole point is lost. How many people in that age would have said "I am," in answer to questions in everyday life. Billions. Are they all gods? Of course not !.

More Rebuttals by www.jewsforjudaism.org: (http://www.jewsforjudaism.org:)

From http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/faq/faq128.html (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/faq/faq128.html):

Question: Is the author of the Gospel of John claiming that Jesus is part of a tri-unity god when he has Jesus say, "before Abraham came into being, I am" (John 8:58)?

Answer: John 8:56-58 states: "'Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad.' The Jews therefore said to him: 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them: 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I am.'"
Trinitarians argue that the Greek words ego eimi ("I am"), allegedly spoken by Jesus (John 8:58), indicate that Jesus is God (see also John 8:24, 28).

They arrive at their contention by connecting the phrase "I am" with the words spoken by God in Exodus 3:14 and often translated: "I AM THAT I AM . . . . Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: I AM has sent me to you." However, the literal and proper translation of this verse is: I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE. . . . Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: I WILL BE has sent me to you."

Since the author of the Gospel of John utilized the Greek Septuagint translation of the Bible in his writings, it cannot be assumed that John's Jesus is referring to the words in Exodus 3:14. Although Jesus actually spoke in Hebrew or Aramaic, not Greek, John recorded Jesus' alleged words in Greek. Ego eimi ("I am"), used by John's Jesus, is not the same as ho on ("The Being, The One Who Is"), which is used in the Septuagint's rendering of Exodus 3:14: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: THE BEING has sent me to you." Even though ho on appears in the Gospel of John, it is never used as a title or name or exclusively as a reference to Jesus. In the Book of Revelation, also credited to John by Christian commentators, ho on appears five times (Revelation 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17; 16:5). Significantly, in each instance, it is used as a title or designation applied to God, not Jesus. Thus: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is [ho on] and who was and who is to come; and from the seven spirits who are before His throne" (Revelation 1:4). That this verse refers to God and not Jesus is seen from the following verse, which continues the greeting by now including Jesus as one of those sending greetings. Hence, John says, in verses 4 and 5, that greetings are sent by God, the seven spirits, and Jesus.

In verse 8, John writes: "'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is [ho on] and who was and who is to come, the Almighty'" (Revelation 1:8). This verse also speaks of God, not Jesus. In Revelation 4:8, ho on is applied to "the Lord God, the Almighty," not Jesus, who, as the "Lamb" referred to in Revelation 5:6-7, comes to God, who is sitting on His throne. That they are two separate entities is seen from Revelation 5:13: "To the one sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." In addition, ho on is applied to the "Lord God, the Almighty," not Jesus, in Revelation 11:17 and Revelation 16:5. That ho on in Revelation 16:5 refers to God and not Jesus can be seen from verse 7, which, referring to the subject of verses 5 and 6, states: "And I heard the altar saying: 'Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.'" These are further indications that ho on and ego eimi are not used as synonymous terms by John. In John 8:56-58, John is expounding his belief that Jesus had a prehuman existence as an angelic being in heaven. John's Jesus is proclaiming here that this prehuman existence began before Abraham was born: "Before Abraham came into being, I am." The fact of the matter is that the text does not at all indicate how long Jesus supposedly lived before Abraham. In no honest way can John's statement be taken to identify Jesus as God.

[ДЖИГИТ]

2- So why did the Jews try to kill Jesus for saying "I am"? Wasn't he claiming to be the Creator of the Universe?

The answer to this question is in this verse:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"

The Jews are known to kill the Prophets of GOD Almighty. That's a given fact that was confirmed by Jesus peace be upon him in Matthew 23:37. Jesus doesn't have to claim to be GOD Almighty to trigger them to kill him. Him being a Prophet of GOD Almighty or claiming to be a Prophet from GOD Almighty -- that alone is enough for the Jews to attempt to kill him. Jesus did say before that he was GOD Almighty's Prophet/Messenger:

" "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. (From the NIV Bible, John 4:34)"

" "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (From the NIV Bible, John 5:24)"

"So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. (From the NIV Bible, John 8:28)"

" "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (From the NIV Bible, John 14:28)"

"Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 10:39-41)"

"And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (From the NIV Bible, Luke 10:15-16)"

There are a lot more verses like the ones above that I can provide that clearly prove that (1) GOD Almighty is above Jesus; and (2) Jesus is GOD Almighty's Messenger. But I believe that the above verses are sufficient enough to prove the point. So when Jesus said "I am" (different from GOD Almighty's Hebrew "I am" in the Old Testament as shown above in the first section), he meant to say that he was GOD Almighty's Messenger, and not GOD Almighty Himself.

[tarafdor]

Iso Tavrotni tug'rilash uchun kelmadi, adashmang. Tavrotning amallarini va Masih haqidagi bashoratlarni amalga oshirish uchun Iso keldi. O'ylashingiz bo'yicha huddi Tavrot o'zgartirilganu Iso uni tuzatishga kelgan, undan keyin Injil o'zgarib qolibtiki Muhammad uni tuzatishga kelgan ekan. Noto'g'ri o'ylash bu. Hudo o'z so'zini himoya qilishga qodir. Muqaddas Kitob aytishi bo'yicha Hudo so'zi doim mustahkam:Ishaya Payg'ambar shunday degan:

Quysangchi fedenka..buncha lapsha osasan...uzi sanga aytgandim bu hristinalik shunday dinki unda bir gapdan ikkinchisi aytaman desang birinchisiga umuman mantiq sifatida tugri kelmaydi...yani usha gapda, hafachilik bulmasin, pu**a qorishib yotasiz bir narsani aytaman deng..mana bu maqolani diqqat bilan uqiging..bu man emas,masihiylar yozishgan..demak Iso as Tavrotni tugirlashga kelgan..



Did Jesus Act in Accordance with Torah?
Bearing in mind the fact that anyone who transgresses even a single precept of Torah becomes a sinner, a sample of Torah commands are contrasted against the respective narrative found in the Gospel of Matthew to determine whether the conduct and teachings of Jesus were consistent with what the Torah requires.

1. Marriage and Procreation (Having Children)

Y The first of the 613 precepts appears early in the Book of Genesis:

Genesis 1:28 - And G-d blessed them [Adam and Eve], and G-d said to them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that treads upon the earth."

Accordingly, human beings are commanded to marry and have children.

U The New Testament is silent on whether Jesus obeyed this command. There is no evidence in the New Testament that Jesus ever married and fathered any children. Christian theology completely rejects this notion.

Conclusion: Jesus did not fulfill the command to marry and procreate.

Sidebar Note: Christian apologists and missionaries attempt to neutralize this issue by claiming that celibacy was an optional lifestyle in Biblical days and thereafter. To support this claim, they cite the example of the prophet Jeremiah as well as some Rabbinic literature. A detailed analysis of the relevant Rabbinic writings is beyond the scope of this essay. Though, in summary, it can be said that, when presented in their proper context, they no longer support the claim.

Concerning the Biblical example of Jeremiah, the following passage is invoked in support of the claim[3] (http://www.messiahtruth.com/sinless.html#_ftn3):

Jeremiah 16:1-4(KJV) – (1) The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying, (2) Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place. (3) For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land; (4) They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

The phrase "… in this place …" provides the clue for a correct reading of this passage. This order is tied to a particular geographical location for a specific reason, which is described earlier in the Book of Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 11:21-23(KJV) – (21) Therefore thus saith the LORD of the men of Anathoth, that seek thy life, saying, Prophesy not in the name of the LORD, that thou die not by our hand: (22) Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine: (23) And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.

Jeremiah, being a native and citizen of Anatot (Jer 1:1), is ordered not to marry in Anatot since the people who live there will be punished for being false prophets. This is not an absolute prohibition to not marry at all!

2. Honor and Respect of Parents

Y According to the Fifth Commandment in the Decalogue, children must honor their parents:

Exodus 20:12 - Honor your father and your mother; in order that your days may be prolonged upon the land which the L-rd, your G-d, gives you. [See also Deut 5:16.]

The reward for keeping this commandment is long life – this is the only Commandment in the Decalogue that mentions such a reward!

Y Not only honoring, but revering one's parents is required by the Torah:

Leviticus 19:3 – Every man shall revere his mother and his father, and keep My Sabbaths; I am the L-rd, your G-d.

Y Still another precept in the Torah contains the following admonition:

Exodus 21:17 – And one who curses his father and his mother, shall surely be put to death.

U The Gospel of Matthew contains the following account:

Matthew 12:46-50(KJV) – (46) While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. (47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. (48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? (49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. [See also Lk 2:42-50; Jn 2:3-4.]

Perhaps because Jesus did not honor his parents, he did not enjoy the reward of a long life on earth as promised in the Fifth Commandment!

U This is what Jesus taught concerning the place of one's parents:

Matthew 10:34-37(KJV) – (34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. [See also Lk 14:26.]

This conduct of Jesus does not reflect that which is required by the Torah.

Conclusion: Jesus violated the commands to honor and respect
parents!

3. Burying the Dead

Y The Jewish Law of Burial is based on commands in this passage:

Deuteronomy 21:23 –His body shall not remain all night upon the gallows, rather you shall surely bury him on that day, for he who is hanged is accursed by G-d, and you shall not defile your land, which the L-rd your G-d gives you for an inheritance.

Burial within 24 hours of death is commanded for an executed criminal. The Sages argued that, if this is to be done for an executed criminal, it certainly is the proper way to do it for an innocent person.

U The Gospel of Matthew describes the way Jesus tested one of his disciples:

Matthew 8:21-22(KJV) - And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. (22) But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. [See also Lk 9:59-60.]

Jesus insisted that, rather than properly bury his own father, a person should follow him. This behavior also falls into the previous category concerning the honoring and respecting of parents.


Conclusion: Jesus violated the Jewish Law of Burial.

[tarafdor]

4. Observance of Passover

According to Christian tradition, and supported by the accounts recorded in the Synoptic Gospel (Matthew, Mark, and Luke), the Last Supper was the traditional festive Passover eve ritual, the Seder. When the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper are contrasted against the Torah laws that deal with the celebration of Passover [(pessah)], it becomes evident that Jesus and his disciples violated them.

Y Jews are obligated to remove all leavened product [(hametz)] from their possession prior to the Passover:

Exodus 12:15 - Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall clear away leaven from your houses; for whoever eats leavened bread, from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

Y Unleavened bread [(matzot)] must be eaten for the duration of Passover:

Exodus 12:18 – In the first [month], on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, you shall eat unleavened bread; until the twenty-first day of the month in the evening.

Y Jews are prohibited from having leavened product [(hametz)] in their possession throughout Passover:

Exodus 12:19 – For seven days leaven shall not be found in your houses; for whoever eats leaven, that soul shall be cut off from the community of Israel, among the stranger and among the native born of the land.

Y Jews may not eat food that contains leavened product [(hametz)] during Passover:

Exodus 12:20 - You shall eat nothing that has leaven; in all places in which you dwell you shall eat unleavened bread.

Y Jews may not eat leavened product [(hametz)] during Passover:

Exodus 13:3 - And Moses said to the people, "Remember this day on which you went out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, for with the might of the hand did the L-rd bring you out from this place; and [therefore] no leavened bread shall be eaten."

U The account recorded in the Gospel of Matthew indicates that, at the Last Supper, Jesus and his disciples were eating ordinary bread, thereby violating the precepts listed above:

Matthew 26:26(KJV) - And as they were eating, Jesus took bread [αρτος (artos)], and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. [See also Mk 14:22; Lk 24:30.]

Note the use of αρτος (artos) in the Greek source, which is the Greek word for ordinary leavened bread (or cake). Christian apologists and missionaries may argue that the authors of the New Testament, in writing their accounts, implied that Jesus and his disciples ate unleavened bread. However, the Greek word for unleavened bread in the Greek source is αζυμως (azumos; see, e.g., Mt 26:17; Mk 14:1,12; Lk 22:1,7).

Y In addition to the precepts concerning the eating of unleavened bread, (matzot), there is another precept of interest:

Exodus 12:8 - And they shall eat the meat in that night, roasted over fire, and [with] unleavened bread; with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

U The accounts of the Last Supper, as recorded in the Four Gospels are silent about eating the flesh of the Paschal lamb and the bitter herbs by Jesus and his disciples at any time during the meal.

Christian apologists and missionaries argue that Jesus himself served as the Paschal lamb. This, however, conflicts with the requirements in the Torah[4] (http://www.messiahtruth.com/sinless.html#_ftn4).

Y The following instructions are spelled out regarding what had to be done with the meat of the Paschal lamb:

Exodus 12:9-10 – (9) You shall not eat from it raw, nor boiled in water; but roasted over fire, its head with its legs, and with its inner parts. (10) And you shall not leave any of it until morning; and that which left over until the morning you shall burn in the fire.

U Jesus was referred to as the Paschal lamb in the New Testament. However, there is no record this was actually done with him.


Conclusion: Jesus violated the commands that relate to Passover!

[tarafdor]

5. Love and Brotherhood of People

a. Attitude toward Gentiles

Y The Torah requires Jews to not wrong a Gentile in speech, and love the Gentile:

Exodus 22:20 - You shall not mistreat a stranger, nor shall you oppress him; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 10:19 - And you shall love the stranger; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

U The Gospel of Matthew contains the following account:

Matthew 15:22-27(KJV) – (22) And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (23) But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. (24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. [See also Mt 6:7,32, 18:17.]

This Gentile woman came to Jesus for help, and he called her a dog!

Conclusion: Jesus violated commands concerning the treatment of
Gentiles!

b. Attitude toward Jews

Y There are precepts in the Torah concerning the behavior toward fellow Jews:

Leviticus 19:17-18 – (17) You shall not hate your brother in your heart; you shall surely reprove your friend, and you shall not bear sin on his account. (18) You shall not take revenge on, nor bear any grudge against the people of your nation, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the L-rd.

This teaches to not cherish hatred in one's heart, to not put another Jew to shame, to rebuke the sinner, to love all other Jews, to not take revenge, and to not carry a grudge.

U Curiously, when asked by someone which the greatest commandment was, Jesus replied:

Matthew 22:37-40(KJV) – (37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. (39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

In other words, he essentially echoes Deuteronomy 6:5 and a portion of Leviticus 19:18. Did he "walk the talk"?

Matthew 6:2,5(KJV) – (2) Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
(5) And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 23:13-33(KJV) – (13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!… (16) Woe unto you, ye blind guides, … (17) Ye fools and blind: … (33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, …

Hypocrites? Blind guides? Fools and blind? Serpents? Generation of vipers? Do these terms sound like words of a Jew who may not necessarily agree with a particular ideology, yet tries to adhere to the precepts in Leviticus 19:17-18? This vicious, violent language sounds more like it is coming from the lips of a virulent anti-Semite.

Conclusion: Jesus violated commands concerning the treatment of fellow Jews!

[tarafdor]

In order to avoid copy/paste just you can give this link http://www.jesus-institute.org/life-of-jesus-modern/jesus-famous.shtml#Diplomat (http://www.jesus-institute.org/life-of-jesus-modern/jesus-famous.shtml#Diplomat) and everybody will look about to quotations of the famous people about Jesus...and is it seems funny that all people in this link are chrsitans and believe to Jesus as a God, so for sure they will something good towards their God...even moslems believe to Jesus but as a prophet..and love them not less then christians..so it's just waste of time and the sign of "digradant"...it's better to make a search among religious jews what they believe about Jesus...:D

[ДЖИГИТ]

V voprose shojesti ideologii, Iudaism i Islam ves'ma identichni. Eto podtverjdaetsya daje v voprose edinobojiya i Iudaism kak i Islam otritsayut hristianskuyu troitsu! Vot dokazatel'stvo:

"HEBREW CHRISTIANS": BIBLICAL PARADOX OR RELIGIOUS REALITY



Many individuals are confused by the arguments of the "Hebrew Christians" and are unaware of the Jewish response to the "Hebrew Christians' " claims that:1) Jews can retain their Jewish identity once they convert.
2) The Jewish Bible is full of prophetic references to Jesus.
3) Spiritual salvation and a personal relationship with G-d can only come through Jesus.
4) Miracles "prove" the validity of Christianity.
5) The Christian belief in the Trinity of G-d is compatible with Judaism.


It is our hope that by examining each claim and the corresponding Jewish response, Judaism's position will be clearly understood.

CLAIM # 1:

"JEWS CAN RETAIN THEIR JEWISH IDENTITY ONCE THEY CONVERT "

In their attempt to convert Jews, missionaries claim that one can remain Jewish while practicing Christianity. The use of terminology such as "Messianic Jew," "Hebrew Christian," and "Jew for Jesus" is but a deceptive attempt to represent converted Jews as Jewish.1 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#1) In fact, missionaries even go so far as to claim that a Jew who accepts Jesus (or "Yeshua," as they call him) is a "completed Jew," implying of course that all other Jews are incomplete.

The misrepresentation and deception employed in this attempt to disguise the seriousness of a Jew's conversion to Christianity is similarly reflected in the widespread misuse of Jewish symbols and customs, in the fabrication of Jewish texts, and in the misrepresentation of the background and Jewish education of many "Hebrew Christians." Numerous "Hebrew Christian" leaders dishonestly refer to themselves as "rabbis" and to their places of worship as "synagogues."2 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#2)

These tactics are employed in an attempt to render their version of Christianity more palatable to the Jews they seek to convert. However, in the words of one of the numerous Christian groups which condemn "Hebrew Christianity," "These proselytizing techniques are tantamount to coerced conversions and should be condemned." (From a formally adopted statement issued by the Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, D.C.)

The Jewish Response

The fact remains that, regardless of superficial attempts to sound Jewish, the term "Hebrew Christian," or "Jew for Jesus," is an oxymoron and a theological contradiction.

So-called "Hebrew Christians" argue that a person who is born Jewish can never lose his birthright or heritage. However, the Bible teaches that your beliefs do influence your Jewish status and that a person who was born a Jew can at some point temporarily cease to be called a Jew.

In the Book of Kings, Elijah the prophet is sent to rebuke those Jews who were worshiping a foreign god called Baal. In I Kings 18:21, Elijah says to them, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is G-d, follow Him: but if Baal, follow him." In other words, you are either a Jew or a worshiper of Baal; you can't be both. The story concludes with the Jews renouncing their idolatrous ways and returning to Judaism.

From this, we derive an important lesson. A Jew who follows another religion is Jewish only to the point that he retains a spiritual obligation to repent and to return to Judaism. However, as long as his beliefs are idolatrous and foreign to Judaism, he cannot call himself a Jew. (It is important to note that a non-practicing Jew is different from a Jew who has chosen to follow a foreign path.)

The Torah teaches that Jews and non-Jews are given different paths to reach G-d. A Jew is obligated to follow the Torah, while a non-Jew must observe the Seven Laws of the Children of Noah.3 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#3) One group isn't better than the other, merely different. Therefore, certain beliefs and practices, like eating pork, are permissible for non-Jews but not for Jews. Similarly, the majority of Christian beliefs concerning G-d, salvation and the Messiah do not violate the Noahide covenant for non-Jews, but are absolutely forbidden for Jews. That is why the term "Messianic Jew," "Hebrew Christian," or "Jew for Jesus," is a contradiction.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html

[ДЖИГИТ]

CLAIM # 2

"THE JEWISH BIBLE IS FULL OF PROPHETIC REFERENCES TO JESUS"
"Hebrew Christians" believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah, and they attempt to prove this by quoting various passages from the Jewish Bible. Such quotations may sound impressive, overwhelming and confusing to anyone with only a passing knowledge of Judaism and with no command of the Hebrew language.
The Jewish Response

1) The only reason these passages, or so-called "proof texts," appear to be alluding to Jesus is because they have been misquoted, mistranslated, or taken out of context. Any written work, if mistranslated or taken out of context, can be made to suggest meanings which were never intended, as the following examples will clearly demonstrate.

The New Testament is no exception. For example, in the New Testament, (Luke 14:26) Jesus is quoted as saying:
"If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
An initial reading of this verse gives the impression that one must hate one's family, and even oneself, as a prerequisite to being a Christian. However, any Christian confronted with a literal reading of this passage will react defensively and insist that the verse doesn't mean that at all. It only appears that way, he or she will explain, because it is being read out of context and without a proper translation.

This is precisely the point we would like to make. What a verse says and what it means may be completely different. Before one can understand any verse properly, whether from the Jewish Scriptures or from the New Testament, it must be read in context and with an accurate translation.
Similarly, when a missionary quotes a verse from Jewish Scriptures, one should ascertain that the verse is being rendered correctly. For example, Psalm 22:17 from the Hebrew Bible, when correctly translated, reads "They surrounded my hands and feet like a lion4 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#4)," referring to King David being pursued by his enemies, who are often referred to as a lion (as in Psalms 7 and 17). Yet, when read out of context and mistranslated as "They pierced my hands and feet," as appears in Christian versions, the passage intentionally conjures up thoughts of Jesus.

This example demonstrates only one of the many verses that the missionaries twist and mistranslate to suit their purposes. Judaism has a response and an explanation for each such instance. The rule of thumb is to always ask: "Are these verses being read in context and with an accurate translation?" Sadly, most "Hebrew Christians" blindly accept the Christian interpretation without ever having heard or fully understood the Jewish view.

After an open-minded re-examination of both sides, thousands of "Hebrew Christians" have returned to Judaism.

2) Missionaries often use the New Testament as proof that events or prophecies in their mistranslated passages have been fulfilled. However, to someone familiar with the Jewish Bible, it is obvious that the touted "inerrancy" (i.e., lack of error) of the New Testament is highly questionable. Consider the following examples:

a) In three different places in the Jewish Bible, (Genesis 46:27, Exodus 1:5 and Deuteronomy 10:22,) it is stated that the patriarch Jacob came to Egypt with a total of 70 persons. Acts 7:14 in the New Testament incorrectly gives this number as 75.

b) Hebrews 8:8-13 of the New Testament, when quoting from Jeremiah, states that G-d replaced His Covenant with the Jews with a "New Covenant," claiming that, because the Jews did not keep the "Old Covenant," G-d "no longer cared for them." However, the original Hebrew text in Jeremiah 31:32 of the Jewish Bible does not say that G-d did not care for them, but rather that He "remained a husband to them." Some Christians interpret their translation to mean that G-d broke His Covenant and rejected the Jewish people. This is completely inconsistent with the biblical stance that the commandments are forever (Psalm 119:151-152) and that G-d promised to never reject or break His Covenant5 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#5) with the Jews (Judges 2:1 and Leviticus 26:44-45).

c) Hebrews 10:5 of the New Testament, when quoting Psalm 40, claims that G-d replaced animal sacrifices with the death of the Messiah, by stating that, "sacrifices and offerings You have not desired, but a body You have prepared for Me." However, the original quote from Psalm 40:6 does not say this; it says, "sacrifices and meal offerings You have not desired; My ears You have opened." This refers to G-d's desire that we listen to Him, as it says, "Behold! -- to obey is better than sacrifice." (I Samuel 15:22)

Fundamentalist Christians readily accept the Jewish Scriptures as the inspired and "inerrant" word of G-d and as the foundation for the New Testament. If they were to be logically consistent, it would follow that, wherever the "Old" and "New" Testaments contradict each other, the New Testament must be admitted to be obviously the one which is in error.

[ДЖИГИТ]

CLAIM # 3


"SPIRITUAL SALVATION AND A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH G-D CAN ONLY COME THROUGH JESUS"

Missionaries claim that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-d" (Romans 2:23), and that there is no salvation from sin or any possibility of a personal relationship with G-d without belief in Jesus. Specifically with regard to Jews, their argument is that Jews have always needed animal blood sacrifices to rid themselves of sin. Since sacrifices were abolished after the destruction of the Temple in Israel, they claim that today Jews can find salvation from sin only by believing in Jesus, who "died on the cross and shed his blood as the final sacrifice."

The Jewish Response

The notion that we are born condemned, and that without the practice of animal sacrifices Jews cannot atone for their sins, represents a blatant misinterpretation of the Jewish Bible.

First of all, the Bible teaches that sin is an act, not a state of being. Mankind was created with an inclination to do evil (Genesis 8:21), and the ability to master this inclination (Genesis 4:7) and choose good over evil (Psalm 37:27). Second, G-d gave us a way to remove our sins. When sacrifices were required they were intended only for unintentional sins (Leviticus 4:1) and served as a means of motivating individuals to true repentance. Numerous passages, including Hosea 14, I Kings 8:44-52 and Jeremiah 29:12-14, inform us that today, without a Temple or sacrifices, our prayers take the place of sacrifices. In addition, we read, "The sacrifices of G-d are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart" (Psalm 51:17) and "I desire kindness and not sacrifices, the knowledge of G-d more than burnt offerings" (Hosea 6:6). The Torah teaches that through repentance, prayer, fasting, and doing what is right, everyone has the ability to return to G-d directly.

This concept is beautifully illustrated in the books of Jonah and Esther, where both Jews and non-Jews repented, prayed to G-d and were forgiven for their sins without having offered any sacrifices.

Missionaries often misinterpret the Jewish tradition that "the suffering of the righteous is a form of atonement." Jewish sources are clear that this concept pertains only to the alleviation of Divine punishment that was decreed upon the Jewish people as a whole. It does not pertain to the removal of an individual's sin. Every person has the responsibility to repent directly to G-d for his own transgressions. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The Hebrew word for repentance is teshuvah--vcua,, and liter-ally means to "return to G-d." Our personal relationship with G-d allows us to turn directly to Him at any time, as it says in Malachi 3:7, "Return to Me and I shall return to you," and in Ezekiel 18:27, "When the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he has committed, and does that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive." Additionally, G-d is extremely compassionate and forgiving as is indicated in Daniel 9:18, "We do not present our supplications before You because of our righteousness, but because of Your abundant mercy."

Contrary to the New Testament (Romans 4:15-16) portrayal of the commandments as a curse and stumbling block, King David says in Psalm 19:7 that "the Law of G-d is perfect, restoring the soul."

King Solomon said that the main purpose of humanity is to believe in G-d and keep his commandments as is stated in Ecclesiastes 12:13-14: "The end of the matter, when all is said and done: Be in awe of G-d and keep his commandments, for that is the whole person."

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 teaches that this path to G-d is unquestionably within our grasp. Isaiah 42:6 teaches that it is the role of Judaism and the Jewish nation to show the world this path by serving as a "light to the nations."

[tarafdor]

Many people peer back through the darkened pages of history and see a rather obscure picture of Jesus. They have heard of His 2,000-year-old claim that He was God, but they don't quite believe it. They find it hard to accept the idea that a small-town Jewish carpenter could have been the creator of the world. They prefer to believe other, less sensational theories about Him. Here are some of those beliefs.
Jesus is a man who achieved great things. Among the groups who hold to this view is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints--the Mormons. They teach that Jesus was a preexistent spirit--but they believe that about everyone. They say that Jesus' distinctiveness is not that He was God, but that He was God's firstborn spirit-child.
http://www.rbc.org/ds_images/q0205/pg1a0205.gif "His humanity is to be recognized as real and ordinary--whatever happened to Him may happen to any of us" (Elder B. H. Roberts citing Sir Oliver Lodge in Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse, p. 11 note).
Jesus is a created being who was given the status of second-in-command. According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus is "a god, but not the Almighty God, who is Jehovah" (Let God Be True, p. 33). Instead, they say that Jesus is "a created individual" who "is the second greatest personage of the universe" (Make Sure of All Things, p. 207).
Jesus is a man no better than we are. "It is plain that Jesus is not God Himself" (Divine Principle, p. 255). These words of Sun Myung Moon clearly spell out the view of his Unification Church. Its teaching is that Jesus' value is no greater than that of any other man. Those who follow Moon's theology say that Jesus' work was a failure.
Jesus' existence began at His conception. One group that teaches this idea is The Way International. In their reinterpretation of biblical instruction, they hold that "Jesus Christ's existence began when he was conceived by God's creating the soul-life of Jesus in Mary" (Victor Wierwille, The Word's Way, Vol. 3, pp. 26,27).
Jesus is a prophet and messenger of God. According to the tenets of Islam, "Jesus . . . was only a messenger of Allah" (Surah 4:171 from the Koran). They also say He was a sinless prophet who never achieved the greatness of the prophet Muhammed.
Jesus is less than most people think He is. Those who embrace atheism have a low view of Jesus. Some cannot find it in themselves to place Jesus on as high a plane as such past notables as Buddha or Socrates. Bertrand Russell, a famous apologist of the atheistic viewpoint, said, "I cannot myself feel that either in the matter of wisdom or in the matter of virtue Christ stands quite as high as some other people known to history" (Why I Am Not a Christian, p. 19).
Jesus is a great moral teacher. Some people don't reject all of Jesus' work on earth, though they do reject His claims to deity. William Channing of the Unitarian church said, "Christ was sent to earth as a great moral teacher rather than as a mediator."
Jesus is a mystic medium. New Age thinkers consider Jesus to be a guide to self-actualization. In this regard, Jesus would be seen as a channel --one of many ancients who give New Age adherents a "glimpse" at the past. Through previous incarnations, they contend, He attained a level of purity that is achievable by all.
Jesus is a projection of our needs. Some feel that the only reason Jesus has reached great heights of importance is that humans need someone like Him to fall back on. Carl Jung, a famous Swiss psychologist and psychiatrist, said that Jesus is "our culture hero who, regardless of His historical existence, embodies the myth of the divine man." One thing is for sure. Somebody is wrong! These people can't all be right about Jesus. He cannot be exactly who all these people say He is. Many who think they know, don't know. If He is only a prophet or a medium, then those who insist He is God are wrong. If on the other hand He is God, then those who insist that He is only an exceptional man are wrong. Some might wish to have it both ways. In science and investigative journalism, we pursue truth passionately. Why should it be any different in this important realm?

[ДЖИГИТ]

CLAIM # 4

"MIRACLES PROVE THE VALIDITY OF CHRISTIANITY"

Some "Hebrew Christians" argue that turning to Jesus changed their lives and that, as a direct result, they have even experienced miracles.

The Jewish Response

Claims of miracles and of changes in one's life are not unique to any one religion. Converts to cults and to other religions also relate miraculous experiences and events in their lives. The Jewish Bible warns that supposed "miracles" may, in reality, be a test from G-d. A classic example of this is found in the beginning of Chapter 13 of the book of Deuteronomy:
"If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises and gives you a sign or wonder [miracle], and the sign or wonder comes true, saying, 'le us go after other gods whom you have not known and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your G-d is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall follow the Lord your G-d and fear Him; and listen to His voice, and serve Him, and cling to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death because he has counseled rebellion against the Lord your G-d." (Deuteronomy 13:1-6)
These verses teach us that G-d may allow a false prophet to perform miracles in order to test us to see whether we will follow His will or be misled by so-called miraculous occurrences.

We also see, from Exodus 7:11, that miracles do not necessarily have to be attributed to G-d. In this passage, Pharaoh commands his court magicians to imitate, with their magic, the miracles that Moses and Aaron performed.

These two examples illustrate that we cannot rely upon miracles as proof that our beliefs are true.

[ДЖИГИТ]

CLAIM # 5

"CHRISTIAN BELIEF IN THE TRINITY OF G-D IS COMPATIBLE WITH JUDAISM"

The foundation of Christian theology includes belief in the bodily incarnation of G-d, that G-d exists as a Trinity, and that Jesus was a mediator between G-d and man. "Hebrew Christian" mission-aries claim that this theology is totally compatible with Judaism.

The Jewish Response

As stated earlier, Judaism maintains that certain beliefs may be permissible for non-Jews, but not for Jews. The Christian theology concerning G-d is one example of a belief that is absolutely forbidden to Jews according to the Hebrew Bible, as the following biblical sources demonstrate:

1) The commandment to believe in G-d's absolute Oneness was given specifically to the children of Israel (the Jewish people), as is stated in the Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear O Israel, The Lord our G-d, the Lord is One." The concept expressed in this verse not only refutes the plurality of gods, but also asserts that G-d is the only true existence. Biblically, G-d is not only infinite, but He transcends time, space and matter. G-d has no beginning and no end, as it says in Isaiah 44:6, "I am the first and I am the last and besides Me there is no other." While Judaism believes that G-d manifests Himself to His creation (humanity) in many ways, (i.e. as a judge or a protector) G-d's essence itself is indivisible and therefore without any possibility of distinction. Something that transcends both time and space cannot be described as consisting of three different aspects. The moment we attribute any such distinctions to G-d's essence, we negate His absolute Oneness and unity.6 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#6)

The following verses from the Hebrew Bible, when correctly translated, further substantiate this fundamental and crucial Jewish belief in the Oneness of G-d: "See now that I, even I, am He and there is no god with Me" (Deuteronomy 32:39) and "There is nothing else besides G-d" (Deuteronomy 4:35).

2) Jews are also forbidden to envision that G-d has "any likeness of anything." Deuteronomy 4:15-19 and Deuteronomy 5:8-9 are only some of the many biblical references prohibiting Jews from believing that G-d dwells in bodily form, as claimed in the New Testament.7 (http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html#7)

3) The prohibition against a mediator is found in the Second Commandment, "You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:3) Therefore, the New Testament statement in John 14:6, that "No one comes to the Father, but through Me [Jesus]" is not acceptable to Jews. Even if he or she considers something to be a part of G-d, a Jew is not permitted to use it as a mediator. The Torah teaches that each person is capable of connecting with G-d directly.

These Christian beliefs, which have their roots in ancient paganism, have been the basis for the Jewish rejection of Christianity -- even on pain of death -- for the last 2,000 years. Historically, Jews have always understood that conversion would mean severing their relationship with G-d as described in the Torah.
CONCLUSIONS

One thing upon which the entire Jewish community and several Christian denominations agree is that "Hebrew Christian" movements are not a part of Judaism. To be a "Jew for Jesus" is as absurd as being a "Christian for Buddha" and as ridiculous as "kosher pork;" it is an obvious contradiction. To paraphrase Elijah, if you are a follower of Jesus, call yourself a Christian. If you are a Jew, practice Judaism. Don't deceive yourself; you can't be both.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/handbook/s_hebrew_christian.html

[Shogird]

Traditional Prayer
Messianic Jews-Jews who accepted the Jesus Christ as their Messiah


http://www.cfi-usa.org/graphics/bb2.jpg

Listen to this prayer-song:
http://www.cfi-usa.org/shmayis1.ram (http://www.cfi-usa.org/shmayis1.ram)
Sh'ma Yisrael Barry & Batya Segal




Sh'ma Yisrael,
Adonai, Eloheinu,
Adonai echad.
Baruch shem k'vod malchuto
Le'olam va'ed




Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God,
The Lord is One.
Blessed be His glorious Name
Whose kingdom is forever and ever.
(Deuteronomy 6:4)



Text of the Jerusalem Documentary

Note: This is the original recording of the Israeli Defense Forces entering the Old City of Jerusalem, the Temple Mount and the Wailing Wall during the Six Day War in June, 1967.
The Temple Mount is in our hands, the Temple Mount is in our hands. All forces cease firing! The time is 10:20, the 7th of June. At this moment we are passing through the Lion's Gate. I am at present under the shadow [of the arch] of the gate. And [now] again we are emerging into the sunshine -- Lion's Gate.


We are in the Old City! We are in the Old City! The soldiers are standing very close to the walls. We are marching now on the Via Dolorosa, Via Dolorosa. Do we understand [the significance of] this? ...the Old City; we are again within the Old City! Al Aksa Mosque. Al Aksa Mosque. Under the ruling of the Mandate we could not enter here. One moment. Straight ahead is the Kotel [Wailing Wall]. Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! We don't have words to express our feelings! (Chant) On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have set watchmen. (Shofar begins to sound.)




[B]Baruch Haba [B]Matthew 23:39
Melody by Barry Kornreich

Baruch haba be'shem Adonai!
Hallelujah!

Baruch haba be'shem Adonai!
Hallelujah!

Baruch haba be'shem Adonai!
Baruch haba be'shem Adonai!
Hallelujah!

Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!
Hallelujah!

Source: http://www.cfi-usa.org/mmedia.html

[Shogird]

Asli Britaniyalik Mashhur Injil Domlasi.


Bible Study with



http://www.cfi-usa.org/graphics/derek1.gif
Derek Prince

Who Are the Israel of God?

This sixty-eight minute message, by noted speaker and author Derek Prince, considers the question raised in Galatians 6:16, "Who are the Israel of God?" In this study, we consider that both Israel and the Church derive their inheritance by descent from Abraham. However, Israel and the Church are two distinct entities, each having its own unique destiny. A most illuminating study for those who were taught that the Church replaced Israel. An excellent refutation to Covenant Theology or Replacement Theology.

Audio #1. http://www.cfi-usa.org/dpi4104a.ram
Audio#2. http://www.cfi-usa.org/dpi4104b.ram

[Shogird]

Click to Listen to the song->Hallelu et Adonai (http://www.cfi-usa.org/halleuet.ram)Psalm 117

Melody by Rachel Boskey

Hallelu et Adonai, kol goyim.
Shabechuhu, kol haumim.
Ki gavar aleynu chasdo,
Ve emet Adonai leolam.

Hallelu! Hallelujah!
Hallelu! Hallelujah!
Hallelu! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah!

Oh, praise the Lord, all you nations:
Praise Him, all you peoples.
For His loving kindness is great toward us.
His truth is everlasting.
Praise the Lord!

http://www.nazarene.net/messianic/images/Channuka.jpg

Messianic Judaism is a Biblically-based movement of people who, as committed Jews, believe in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Jewish Messiah of Israel of whom the Jewish Law and Prophets spoke.
To many this seems a glaring contradiction. Christians are Christians, Jews are decidedly not Christian. So goes the understanding that has prevailed through nearly two thousand years of history.
Messianic Jews call this a mistaken - and even anti-Scriptural - understanding. Historical and Biblical evidence demonstrates that following Yeshua was initially an entirely Jewish concept. Decades upon decades of persecution, division, and confused theology all contributed to the dichotomy between Jews and believers in Yeshua that many take for granted today.
Source:
Messianic Jews Alliance of America
http://www.mjaa.org/engine.cfm?i=3&sl=15


P.S. Uzbek Christians respect and pray for Jews and their peace!

[Ahmet]

...and when do you want to accept Hz.Muhammed (saas)?:D

[Ahmet]

By the way Shogird, I don't think that your Messianic Jews supposed to be so famous that they deserve to be mentioned in this thread:lol:
...and that song, how was that Halleluyai or what, (by DJ Rachel Boskey) well anyway, do you think for learning about Prophet Jesus (as) better, one should listen to your tracks???

If everyone, who accepts Jesus (as), is said to be really famous in your "ThreadStar", I do request you to note that I would be the next one,pliiiiizzzzzz

Sorry man, but you don't seem to be that kind of christian who I expected you to be(just shogird).:oops:

I've many christian friends here in Germany who'd graduated from Berlin Bible Institute (BBI), or Berlin International Church.

And recently in our "Muslim-Christian Meeting on Dialogue and Tolerance Evening" I explained our christian friends about such "New-Comers" like you. And you know, what they told me???

"Online Missionary is allowed and recomended only for those christians who are able to answer all the questions asked by non-christians; and just answering is not enough!!! You MUST always keep in your mind that by answering their questions you should be really and very carefull, otherwise all your temptations might lead to some misunderstandings" (which I've seen here many times)

I'm sure that those "tolerant" christians would give you real and effective advices how and where you should practise your mission!

P.S. Make friends and not enemies.

Peace!

[Shogird]

By the way Shogird, I don't think that your Messianic Jews supposed to be so famous that they deserve to be mentioned in this thread:lol:
...and that song, how was that Halleluyai or what, (by DJ Rachel Boskey) well anyway, do you think for learning about Prophet Jesus (as) better, one should listen to your tracks???

If everyone, who accepts Jesus (as), is said to be really famous in your "ThreadStar", I do request you to note that I would be the next one,pliiiiizzzzzz

Sorry man, but you don't seem to be that kind of christian who I expected you to be(just shogird).:oops:

I've many christian friends here in Germany who'd graduated from Berlin Bible Institute (BBI), or Berlin International Church.

And recently in our "Muslim-Christian Meeting on Dialogue and Tolerance Evening" I explained our christian friends about such "New-Comers" like you. And you know, what they told me???

"Online Missionary is allowed and recomended only for those christians who are able to answer all the questions asked by non-christians; and just answering is not enough!!! You MUST always keep in your mind that by answering their questions you should be really and very carefull, otherwise all your temptations might lead to some misunderstandings" (which I've seen here many times)

I'm sure that those "tolerant" christians would give you real and effective advices how and where you should practise your mission!

P.S. Make friends and not enemies.

Peace!

First of all I am glad that you are enriching your worldview by learning about different cultures and confessions. I have some close German friends too. I've just browsed Berlin International Church Website. Looks like they are Reformed Evangelicals but their website does not have enough information to read about their faith and practices.

Now about me. I can't understand what I did that you are angry at me. I've never claimed to be missionary or expert in religious issues. I am an ordinary follower of Jesus Christ. I am answering questions whenever I have time. I agree with you that online Missionary should be able to answer all questions. Well I am not claiming to be online missionary so your accusation is not addressed to me. I have full time job in bussines sector and have other responsibilities but I got interested in this forum first of all because this is the place where Uzbeks, my people gather and than God is the most important person in my life. So I am not indifferent to Anti-Semitic and Anti-Christian posts in this forum. That is why I shared my personal position.
"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence,"
(1 Pet. 3:15, NASB).


About "Temptations". Would you be kind enough to clarify what kind of temptations you are referring to. As far as I know I am extremely careful to answer any question in this forum that is why it takes me longer to answer.

About Tolerance. I understand that Europe became multicultural region and they need to practice the policy of tolerance. Ahmet take time and check your fellow Muslim brother's posts here in this forum and compare with my posts. I do respect Muslim people as people and I believe that every person has his or her dignity. I also respect their rights to believe or not to believe. But frankly speaking I see some some hate and insulting posts in this forum from some of the participants probably you need to address their behaviour.

You are upset about my post about Messianic Jews. These posts were reply to other posts in this forum. Jews are famous ethnic group so I showed that that there are Jews who are turning to Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

Peace:)

P.S. Be friendly and you will make friends

[ДЖИГИТ]

Whoever brings companions to God is UNBELIEVER in Monotheism, considered as INFIDEL, KAFIR, UNBELIEVER and suffer in the afterlife according to monotheistic belief!

According to Christians, since Mariam (Mary) was Jesus's mother (BIOLOGICAL), she is concidered to be mother of God, and the father of the child (Jesus), they consider to be God, hence, Jesus is God according to Christians.

But they never admit and AVOID the fact that God is NOT BIOLOGICAL father but rather the Creator of Jesus, God created Jesus without father just as God created Adam without father, God is Almighty to do that! According to christians, God the Creator and Jesus are one which they, christians, mean as one God in different forms, well then we have a situation where God is having a mother! and God also married his own mother to conceive the child ???????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

So we see that christians simply ignore the fact that God Created Jesus just as He created Adam, and was not BIOLOGICAL father to any human being at any time, but the Creator of all and everything at all times!

Being created without a father doesn't make that person a God himself, how morally stubborn and stupid one must be to accept this false beliefe, christians have been misled in millions during these 2000 years and they still don't see the fact that they have an unexplainable, completely contrary to logic belief, in which they BLINDLY believe, but when presented facts that Bible script writers corrupted the Bible and did not include many other books to the Bible itself, considering them unnecessary, they christians, ignore this as well, just as Shogird and many other false belief followers do!

So, we have the fact, according to christians, that God has a mother, and God married his own mother!???????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

What a rotten beliefe it is!

[Shogird]

Whoever brings companions to God is UNBELIEVER in Monotheism, ......

Djigit, molodez monotheist (edit:the reason explained here (http://www.forum.uz/showpost.php?p=355090&postcount=77))

There are differen names that God revealed himself through.
The word Allah theologically and linguistically close to Hebraic word Elohim. In short, Elohim means God the creator, transcendent God. This name we see in the first book of the Bible, Genesis.

The Arab prophet Muhammad preached monotheism in the environment of idolatry.
But Jews and Christians were already monotheists. Although there were great misunderstandings between Christians about the nature of Christ. They believed in God's word but it was hard to explain the nature of God for them. That is why there were different views even heresies. Muhammad had some contact with Christian sectarians in his land and even his relatives were Christians. Some of those sectarians hold heretical and confusing teachings. Quran clearly refutes the trinity of God, Mary and Jesus. That is true, there is no such trinity as God, Mary and Jesus.
According to Bible there is one Creator God.
But God reveals Himself in three persons as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I know it can be even hard even for Christian to conceive but be patient friend. Knowledge can be gained in two ways by learning and by revelation (knowledge that comes from God).
Jesus accepted by faith and comprehended by revealation. This is ongoing lifetime knowing of Jesus. It is not only intelectual learning, Djigit. We believers change (moraly, spiritually) by knowing Him. There is a word in Hebrew 'yada', it means more than knowing, read about this here: link:http://www.intimacywithgod.com/knowgod.html

P.S: From your post I see you are not married. I often hear my maried friends say: "I am maried to my wife so many years and I still don't understand her":D .
How much more God is rich in knowledge and wisdom.

[Shogird]

Who is Jesus to me.

He came from the throne of the Father to the womb of a woman.
He put on humanity that we might put on divinity.
He became Son of Man that we might
become sons of God.
He was born in a supernatural way, lived in poverty and
was reared in obscurity.
He had neither wealth nor influence, yet the wisdom of
men has never matched His wisdom.
Never has a man spoken like this man.
His family was inconspicuous and uninfluential.
In infancy He startled a king.
As a boy, He stunned theologians with His knowledge and wisdom for He was taught of God.
In manhood, He ruled the elements and quieted the raging sea.
He healed the multitudes without medicine.
And fed thousands from a boy’s lunch.
Even demons obeyed Him and He gave back life to those who died.
He never wrote a book, yet none of the libraries of the world can contain the books that have been written about Him.
He never wrote a song, yet He has furnished the
theme of more songs than all song writers combined.
He never founded a college, yet all the colleges together cannot boast of as many students as He has.
He never marshaled an army, yet no leader has ever had more volunteers.
Great men have come and gone yet He lives all. Herod could not kill Him.
Satan could not tempt Him to sin. Death could not destroy Him.
The grave could not hold Him.
He laid aside His purple robe for a peasant’s gown.
He was rich yet for our sakes He became poor. He slept in another’s manger. He rode on another’s donkey.
He was buried in another’s grave. He conquered death and rose on the third day as He said He would.
He ascended into heaven and is now at the right
hand of the throne of God.
One day He will return with power and great glory to
judge the world when every knee shall bow to Him and every tongue shall confess Him as Lord.
His friends gladly. But enemies seeking for a place to hide from His face.
He is the perfect one. The only one who can satisfy the soul.
He gives everlasting life to those who love Him.
He is altogether lovely.
But best of all, He is my Savior.

excerpt from The Incomparable Christ.
--------------------------------------------

Djigit read this :
http://www.blbi.org/library/pdf/022.pdf#search='christology'

[Shogird]

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/e/el_greco/thumb/el_greco_st_paul.jpg
Apostle Paul
I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things.Philippians 3:7-10

[ДЖИГИТ]

Djigit, molodez monotheist, tak derjat!!!
Agar monotheistlar bo'lmaganda Triteistlar (three gods)ko'payib ketgan bo'larmadi.:D

There are differen names that God revealed himself through.
The word Allah theologically and linguistically close to Hebraic word Elohim. In short, Elohim means God the creator, transcendent God. This name we see in the first book of the Bible, Genesis.

The Arab prophet Muhammad preached monotheism in the environment of idolatry.
But Jews and Christians were already monotheists. Although there were great misunderstandings between Christians about the nature of Christ. They believed in God's word but it was hard to explain the nature of God for them. That is why there were different views even heresies. Muhammad had some contact with Christian sectarians in his land and even his relatives were Christians. Some of those sectarians hold heretical and confusing teachings. Quran clearly refutes the trinity of God, Mary and Jesus. That is true, there is no such trinity as God, Mary and Jesus.
According to Bible there is one Creator God.
But God reveals Himself in three persons as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I know it can be even hard even for Christian to conceive but be patient friend. Knowledge can be gained in two ways by learning and by revelation (knowledge that comes from God).
Jesus accepted by faith and comprehended by revealation. This is ongoing lifetime knowing of Jesus. It is not only intelectual learning, Djigit. We believers change (moraly, spiritually) by knowing Him. There is a word in Hebrew 'yada', it means more than knowing, read about this here: link:http://www.intimacywithgod.com/knowgod.html

P.S: From your post I see you are not married. I often hear my maried friends say: "I am maried to my wife so many years and I still don't understand her":D .
How much more God is rich in knowledge and wisdom.

Don't lie! If you don't know, you better be silent! I'm sure you don't realize what you believe in, but "thanks" to emotional influence through singning at churches, through seeing other false belief followers, who reach the point of believing anything you tell them when they are emotionally active, through help given to you by false belief followers, you sold the truth for nothing! And now you dare to lie on the prophet? Well, such infidels get fierce responce by muslims. Why muslims? because we fiercely defend the truth, by any means. You lost in your thoughts, but still don't want to admit that your faith is false faith!!! There's only one religion- beliefin ONE God, and all those that are called Judaism, Christianity, Islam, are just churches of prophets sent by same ONE God, but some false believers like trinitarians blaspheme (kofirlik qiladi) by saying God in three, this is against Tora, against Qur'an, against Bible.

We muslims believe that christians who don't say three but believe in One and only One God are mo'mins -which means believers. We believe in Jesus as a noble prophet, we believe in Bible as original holy book sent by ONE God to people of certain era, Islam teaches that Mariam (Mary) in premises of God is concidered the most noble woman among all women born to humankind, we believe in other prophets and miracles they performed through the will of ONE God, we believe there's no partner or form that God needs to show himself, we believe in existance of angels, and that through angel Gabriel God revealed his words to prophets.

Sani gaplaringdan kotta ketish ma'nosi kelib chiqvotti, go'yoki Muhammad s.a.w. hristianlardan o'rgangan mish, bunaqa nodonlikni ko'rmaganan, islomni islomshunosdan o'rganasanmi, yoki kofirdanmi? qani Islom tarihida qatta yozibdi Muhammad hristianlardan o'rgangan deb??? Albatta kofirlar tushurilgan kitobini o'zgartirib tashlagach, Islomga ham hamla qiladi, o'shalardan bitta bo'libsan qolibsan.

Padaringga achinaman, mo'min bandala bo'lib o'tgan bo'lishsa, og'li kofirlardan bo'lganini bilib, qabrida tinch yotmagan bo'lsa ajab emas. Alloh rahmat qilsin o'tganlarni, tiriklarga esa ilm, aql, insof bersin!

[Ahmet]

First of all I am glad that you are enriching your worldview by learning about different cultures and confessions. I have some close German friends too. I've just browsed Berlin International Church Website. Looks like they are Reformed Evangelicals but their website does not have enough information to read about their faith and practices.

Does it really matter if their website does have enough information on christianity??? These christians friends have deserved to be friends for moslems because they accept that Allah is the same God in Heaven(christ.)

Now about me. I can't understand what I did that you are angry at me.
I'm not angry with you! You made here so many enemies and they are really angry with you!

I've never claimed to be missionary or expert in religious issues. I am an ordinary follower of Jesus Christ. I am answering questions whenever I have time. I agree with you that online Missionary should be able to answer all questions. Well I am not claiming to be online missionary so your accusation is not addressed to me.

And now tell me please what you're doing here?
What are your intentions?
What do you expect from a moslem after reading your messages?
What do you want from a moslem who already believes in Jesus (as)?

I have full time job in bussines sector and have other responsibilities but I got interested in this forum first of all because this is the place where Uzbeks, my people gather and than God is the most important person in my life.

You know what, we've also full time jobs and have enough responsibilities like you. God is everything for a moslem too! But the way of your messaging makes many users sad and sick. GIVE US THAT LINK AND THOSE ONES WHO ARE INTERESTED WILL READ THAT FOR THEMSELVES!

About "Temptations". Would you be kind enough to clarify what kind of temptations you are referring to. As far as I know I am extremely careful to answer any question in this forum that is why it takes me longer to answer.
A temptation is an act that looks appealing to an individual. It is usually used to describe acts with negative connotations and as such, tends to lead a person to regret such actions as a result of guilt.

About Tolerance. I understand that Europe became multicultural region and they need to practice the policy of tolerance. Ahmet take time and check your fellow Muslim brother's posts here in this forum and compare with my posts.

Excuse me sir, but who started???

I do respect Muslim people as people and I believe that every person has his or her dignity. I also respect their rights to believe or not to believe. But frankly speaking I see some some hate and insulting posts in this forum from some of the participants probably you need to address their behaviour.

If you'd respected Moslems, you wouldn't have sent such provocative messages!!!

You are upset about my post about Messianic Jews. These posts were reply to other posts in this forum. Jews are famous ethnic group so I showed that that there are Jews who are turning to Jesus Christ as their Messiah.
Well done my dear... by the way I've enough friends here THAN YOU!