Ideal Uzbekistan

[Oyaji]

It would be interesting to know how people would change current uzbekistan to make it better, or how they imagine ideal uzbekistan.

For example:

Airport: I arrive in airport in Tashkent (or Samarkand, or Andijan, or Nukus, there will be lots of international airports). It's big, nice and clean, built and decorated in traditional way, but with "taste". Most importantly, there will be no "waiting" taxi-drivers in airport, they would have an orderly qeue.

People: Multi-culture: uzbeks, russians, other central asians, europeans, other asians. No indians. No chinese. Everybody speaks and communicates in fluent uzbek.

Etc:

[Amiri Turkiston]

streats are clean....and there are a lot of lights

can wear ya shoes without cleaning for a week...wow...dream

[Samandar]

less cops in the streets!

[al-quds muslim]

SALAMU ALAIKUM,

dear,

the civilization process you are wanting, is not easy at all, as when you say the (change), you means avery sensitive word, that touch every part of your country on all sides, and this process wants alot to be done, but not impossible.

when you are saying about change, you need the following,


1- ediology that your society will beleive in and go to hold and practise, in all life aspects, and i see that (ISLAM) will be that great ediology that will help your country to be developed, as islam isnt only areligion, but also amethod for life, that organize the society to be developed .

2- high powers on several sides, educational scientific power, economical power, armor power, ... etc , and all know that your country can have such powers if have agood leadership, uzbekistan is acountry with good amount of resources by all its types .

3- all outern powers that may collapse your country, or steel its powers, must be taken out .

4- and the most important point is, dont be pessimestic if say big challenges, beleive that you are harder than them, as the current conditions are too bad as i and others see, not only on uzbekistan, but also on all regions .

5- hard work to spend,and long time to wait, patiance is wanted, as development isnt easy, and never to have it in 24 hours.

6- and the most important thing, how much you beleive in your ediology, you will pass the hard way of development harder .

7- development process also needs alot of your 1st class youth to be punnished, and some time killed, and as there are alot who dont want the development way to take its way .

may allah help us to get the wanted development

thank u all very much

[Gareeb]

If we want prosperious society we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology. Islam will be private life of everyone who wants to practice it. But we need consolidating ideology as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey. Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.
Xuddi Uzbekistonda dawlat Islomiy qonunlar bilan boshqarilayotgandek gap qibsizmi?
15 yildan buyon Secular State bo'may nima?
1991 yildan beri Karimov o'zini Otaturk(ikkovigayam Allohning la'nati bo'lsin)izdoshiman deb keladiyu?

[Tokugawa]

1. High quality educational institutions accessible (free) for every citizen. Teachers are well-paid, respected; being a "teacher" is considered one of most prestigious jobs.

2. Complete "privatization" of land and agriculture, including cotton industry.

3. Forum.Uz = Parliament :D

[Oyaji]

There would be no serios maxalliychilik (little is good).

Government would consist of middle-aged intellectuals from all regions of uzb. Any kind of employment entry wouldn't be conditioned by any kind of religious, national, regional representation.

For example, samarkandi, andijani, tashkandi and namangani ministers would sit in irish pub for lunch and tell each other "gulmisiz, rayxonmisiz, jambilmisiz" jokes ... about namangani men. :D

[Wolfman]

1. har kim mehnatiga yarasha haqqini olsa,
2. poraxo'rlik tugatilsa,
3. odamning qadr qimmati bo'lsin, xuquqlari oyoq osti qilinmasa,
5. mahalliychilik yo'qolsa,
6. erkinlik,
7. tenglik, hech kim nasabini, mansabini pesh qilib odamlarga zug'um qila olmasa,
8. davlatga qulchilik (paxta terish, yozda o'toq qilish, fermerlarning mahsulotini toprtib olish...) yo'qolsa,
... ... ...

xullas orzular juda ulkan ;)

Stanley

[Oyaji]

xullas orzular juda ulkan ;)


Bolgani yaxshi, bolmagani yomon. Borini oylab tashavuring. Balkim bitta yarimtasi ayniqsa yoqib qolib maxkam usharmiz.

[Administrator]

But we need consolidating ideology .


okey, i admit that you don't see hezalaks in uzb as often as you can see them in turkey but unfortunatly ,today uzbeksitan is more secular than as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey.we are too much secular. that is bad.

[Iqbol]

But we need consolidating ideology as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey. Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.
*:rolleyes:

[Amiri Turkiston]

chet el kompaniyasiga tel. qilganingizda...

yoqimtoy ovoz egasi .... "XYZ" Kompaniyasi eshitadi - deb tursa

o'zrislar bizani o'zbekligimizni ko'rib rus tilida emas o'zbek tilida gapirishsa

[Martingale]

chet el kompaniyasiga tel. qilganingizda...

yoqimtoy ovoz egasi .... "XYZ" Kompaniyasi eshitadi - deb tursa

o'zrislar bizani o'zbekligimizni ko'rib rus tilida emas o'zbek tilida gapirishsa

Why not ABC? :D
And why is it so important for an ideal Uzbekistan? Plus, I don't think there is a general consensus on the definition of ideal republic, cause one thing that seems ideal to someone may not be ideal to another. sorry if Im repeating.

[Prince]

Yoqimtoyligi - shariatga togri kelmidide!!!! Officeda qizla ishlaydigan bolsa "yoqimtoyli" qiladigan joyda xammasi yo orisla yo , ozbeklani "zor"lari
Bizani ozbekcha mentalitet qanaqa? "XYZ eshitadi" desa buldi xaligi ozbek mujik:
savol berishi boshlidi "Eriz bomi? , turmushga chiqqanmisiz? mani bola chaqam bor lekin , hotinimdan konglim qogan , hohlasez......... " Ketti uyogi.... Uzicha erkede u :) 1-2 som topib qoyil qib qoygan , Holhoja! :rolleyes:

chet el kompaniyasiga tel. qilganingizda...

yoqimtoy ovoz egasi .... "XYZ" Kompaniyasi eshitadi - deb tursa

o'zrislar bizani o'zbekligimizni ko'rib rus tilida emas o'zbek tilida gapirishsa

[Amiri Turkiston]

Why not ABC? :D
And why is it so important for an ideal Uzbekistan? Plus, I don't think there is a general consensus on the definition of ideal republic, cause one thing that seems ideal to someone may not be ideal to another. sorry if Im repeating.

endi Laziz bek bu man uchun muhim bulsa kerak de

5 qo'l barovar emas deganlariday...siz uchun ideal Uzb. boshqacha bulsa hech yomon joyi yo'q

prosto bizani tilni ham ozgina hurmat qilishsa - odamni ko'ngli ko'tarilar midi deyman da

[Amiri Turkiston]

Yoqimtoyligi - shariatga togri kelmidide!!!! Officeda qizla ishlaydigan bolsa "yoqimtoyli" qiladigan joyda xammasi yo orisla yo , ozbeklani "zor"lari
Bizani ozbekcha mentalitet qanaqa? "XYZ eshitadi" desa buldi xaligi ozbek mujik:
savol berishi boshlidi "Eriz bomi? , turmushga chiqqanmisiz? mani bola chaqam bor lekin , hotinimdan konglim qogan , hohlasez......... " Ketti uyogi.... Uzicha erkede u :) 1-2 som topib qoyil qib qoygan , Holhoja! :rolleyes:

eeee, bunaqa chuqur kirib ketmengde endi

bunaqa hol qo'yib qo'yuvchilar hamma erda topiladi
tilni dahli yo'q bunga

[Martingale]

5 qo'l barovar emas deganlariday...siz uchun ideal Uzb. boshqacha bulsa hech yomon joyi yo'q

This is exactly what I mean;)


prosto bizani tilni ham ozgina hurmat qilishsa - odamni ko'ngli ko'tarilar midi deyman da

Judayam tugri gap. Lekin davlatni uzi haqida bironta fikrga ega bumasa, qaerdagi XYZ company tilini qanday hurmat qisin. :) Huddi maymunni uqish yozishga urgatishdey degan gap.

[al-quds muslim]

If we want prosperious society we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology. Islam will be private life of everyone who wants to practice it. But we need consolidating ideology as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey. Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.

salamu alaikum,

dear, although i like turkey too much as afriend country of mine, i have several points to say about (turkey of ataturk), and compare it with (turkey of the ottomans)

1- do u think that ataturk build (the ideal turkey)??? , turkey till now wants alot to have the wanted position as advanced country of the 1st scale ,to have the charactor ,from the country it self, not from the european charactor that turkey want to act at the time europe refused unity with turkey till now .

2- ottoman state had agood scale of civilisation, and was the state number 1 some day ottomans have good respection as they constructed ahuge empire in there times, and the weakness time was at its last stage, and it is not considerable ,as every state must have weakness stage .

3- to give agrade for turkey today to the world today, its posaition is too less than the ottoman empire in those days with respect to that time countries .

If we want prosperious society we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology..

WHY ????? who


we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology. Islam will be private life of everyone who wants to practice it..

who said to you that islam is just practised in religious aspects only ??? who said to you that islam didnt have political and development ideology to govern life and acheive development ??? and also who told that islamic state not accept other religions to be good residents in its stucture ????

Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.

did the secularism of ataturk, built the great secular turkey, to construct now the (great secular uzbekistan)?? and who said that islam not wellcome people with various back-grounds ????

thank u all very much

[satik]

The Uzbekistan of our dreams-ideal Uzbekistan may be built, it is possible.
But, first of all, we must find the factor which will trigger the creative impulse of the Nation.
Islamic values could be a good choice, as they are the only right ones.
But, they would not not be perceived equally friendly by every member of the society.
It should be an ideology "BASED ON ISLAMIC VALUES" and presented in an interculturally neutral manner.
I think, "O'zbekiston kelajagi buyuk davlat!!!" was a bearable one. But the ruling elite failed to show the proper way for reaching that "buyuk kelajak".
Anyways, leaving the clean streets, nice airports and cool infrastructure aside, I would long to live in the Uzbekistan where you are valued because you are a human being.
Where citizens share the common aspiration towards the "Prosperious future" and are confident of tomorrow.

[Masanori]

har gal toshkentda metroga chiqqanimda, odamlar yuzida tashvish kurardim, man uchun ideal uzbekiston bu - metroda hayotdan mamnunlikni ifodalavochi tabassum bilan ketayotgan odamlar!

[al-quds muslim]

As-salamu alaikum,



Turkey has very little to do with its forerunner, its not an Empire but just a small nation-state. Thus, your comparison with Ottomans is a bias .
all of us see that the one who destroyed the empire and made the comuriyyet, is ataturk, so that, what you are called bias, isnt as that, as it is an additional mistake to attaturk, the one who want power, must fetch on unity, not collapsing .




and not just a european periphery as it used to be during 70 years.

.

and that is an error related to the "kemalism" that turned turkey to do that rule for 70 years, but the mistake still fetched, as turkey still waiting opportunity to join wurope without acceptance .



Smart decision of Ataturk let Turkey to upgrade and nowadays Turkey is the only semi-democracy in the Middle East, along with Israel.
.

am too sorry to hear that from u, do u see israel that good country while seeing all its crimes ??? sharone working against every legal work the humanity knows, using high weaponed army against children and naked people, is that democracy ??????


But in reality, only non-religious ideology can give a spur to progress of modern society. MODERNISM. .

what is the evidence that just ..... ???????


please, you didnt answered my previous questions on your previous articles


thank u very much

[Amiri Turkiston]

Judayam tugri gap. Lekin davlatni uzi haqida bironta fikrga ega bumasa, qaerdagi XYZ company tilini qanday hurmat qisin. :) Huddi maymunni uqish yozishga urgatishdey degan gap.

to'g'ri gapiz

oz'bek tiliga daje O'zb. Davlat arboblari ham hurmat qilishmaydi

boshqalarni gapirmasa ham buladi

[Amiri Turkiston]

har gal toshkentda metroga chiqqanimda, odamlar yuzida tashvish kurardim, man uchun ideal uzbekiston bu - metroda hayotdan mamnunlikni ifodalavochi tabassum bilan ketayotgan odamlar!

hayotdan hursandlar o'zini moshinasida yurishadi de

mayli kelin hammamiz chet eldagilar singari bir birimizga ho'mrayib emas kulib boqadigan bulaylik

[Shokirbek]

hayotdan hursandlar o'zini moshinasida yurishadi de

mayli kelin hammamiz chet eldagilar singari bir birimizga ho'mrayib emas kulib boqadigan bulaylik

"o'z birodaringga tabassum birla qarashing ham sadaqa (savob) dir" degan hadisga amal qilgan musulmon doim kulib qaraydi, lekin, afsuski, O'zbekistonda odam birovga tabassum qilishga ham qo'rqadi shekilli.

[Wolfman]

O'zinmi bu Amir?

boshqa threadda tillarni "kasha" qilishni qo'llab quvvatlaganing uchun rahmat eshitgan san emasmiding? :lol:

hamma narsa kichik narsalarda boshlanadi, "daje" ning o'rniga "hatto" ni ishlatsang, bu ham o'zbek tilini hurmat qilishda bir kichik muvaffaqiyat. ;)


Stan




oz'bek tiliga daje O'zb. Davlat arboblari ham hurmat qilishmaydi

[Oyaji]

hayotdan hursandlar o'zini moshinasida yurishadi
Moshinlar orasida eski sovetlari qolmagan. Qolganlariyam antikvariat sifatida korinib qoladi.

Sassiq daewoolar xam sanoqlik (kopligidan odam quskisi kelyopti uje).

Yoki xammayoqda daewoo, no uje daewoomas, balkim yangi ozimiz konstruktorlar proektlagan modellar.

Kochadagi moshinlar tarkibi xilma-xillashgan, chunki davlatda allaqachon bozor iqtisodiyoti xukmron, arzon va sifatli moshinlar sotiladi, davlat bizani majburlaganlari emas. WTO gayam allaqachon azomiz.

Shunday deymanu, lekin u paytda butun dunyo uje vertolyotda (uzbekchasiga qanday variantlar bor, wolfman) uchib yursa kerak...

[Amiri Turkiston]

O'zinmi bu Amir?
boshqa threadda tillarni "kasha" qilishni qo'llab quvvatlaganing uchun rahmat eshitgan san emasmiding? :lol:
hamma narsa kichik narsalarda boshlanadi, "daje" ning o'rniga "hatto" ni ishlatsang, bu ham o'zbek tilini hurmat qilishda bir kichik muvaffaqiyat. ;)
Stan

Siz mani nimaga sansirayabsiz?
meni taniysizmi?

Tanimasez, sag'al odob yuzasidan - forum etikasiga rioya qilgan holda muomila qiling iltimos

Sizni etirozis o'rinlik o'zbek tili haqida...man boyagi threatda aytganimdek manga qulay 3/4 ta tilni aralashtirib gapirish
Hafa bulmiz ushanchun

A Davlat miqyosida gapirsak - man qonunlarning rus tilida chiqishi, yoki ishga qabul qilinvotganda rus tilini bilasanmi degan savollarni nazarda tutgan edim

[Oyaji]

... I pomenshe religioznih sentimentov, inache na Uzbekistane mejdunarodnoe soobchestvo okonchatelno postavit krest.

Islam will be in people's tilida, dilida, and more or less in everyday life (how each indiviudal chooses to practice it). None in politics, law, or mandatory education.

[al-quds muslim]

Islam will be in people's tilida, dilida, and more or less in everyday life (how each indiviudal chooses to practice it). None in politics, law, or mandatory education.

salamu alaikum,

ok dear, is your neglicting for islam to reign, is for

1- the islam CAN'T organize those ways of life ?? OR,
2- when islam reigns your country, islam may do bias for muslims, and neglect other religions???? OR???,

3- because islam will take your country badly backward ???

if it was the first one, then, you dont know islam well as an organizing system of life, and know that islam is just for prayings, and islam not as that .


if your reply was the 2nd, islam give every one his/her complete rights, and at all the islamic history, muslims give one of the most best examples in giving other religions there rights, and live beside muslims as good residents with complete rights .

if it was the third, islam reign convert the society forward at every past stage, and inshallah will do the same now, islam converted the bedwins to be civilized, and build avery huge civilization for about 14 centeries, they developed cities, sciences, chemistry, physics, constructions, engineering, mathematics, al-jabr(aljebra), logarithms ,medicine, pharmacy, soft and heavy industries of ships, metals,,................. and alot of topics, and give the humanity alot of civilization examples that are mentioned till now in modern life, such as (logarithms) which are now the major science in (computer data processing) related to (al-khawarizmi),(aljebra) related to (al-jabr), which is first constructed by (al-khawarizmi ) till now still the major method in solving mathematical formulas of several variables,the huge canon of sultan mohammed (2nd), and all the world can see the islamic civilization in spain, baghdad, damascus, central asia, turkey, egypt, syria, and other places .

these things i mentioned is not just in one stage of time, but it was for about (14 centuries) as said .

please, i know that alot still not understand islam as well, and that is not the problem of islam .


and thank u all very much

[Oyaji]

salamu alaikum,

ok dear, is your neglicting for islam to reign, is for

1- the islam CAN'T organize those ways of life ?? OR,
2- when islam reigns your country, islam may do bias for muslims, and neglect other religions???? OR???,

3- because islam will take your country badly backward ???



For none of these reasons. My reasons are personal, I think Islam is not religion of choices. More of it i'd like to take out to another more appropriate thread.

Al-quds, can you please give us your brief version of ideal uzbekistan?!

[Administrator]

We are not as supressive as Ataturk's Turkey was. In first decade of Republic praying in Arab (only in Turkish allowed), wearing muslim dress code, and even turkish fez were banned, waqf premises were expropriated, whole orientation was toward Europe and european values. Ataturk considered "Pan-Islamism, pan-Turkism and Ottomanism" as rubbish.


and that was his great mistake.why should we repeat others mistakes ?
p.s. we had our own values for centuries.ther is no such thing like 'european values',we all know what theese "values" are.

[Hi there!]

Ne mog bi mnogouvajaemiy al-quds, opisat nineshnie dostijeniya v islamskih stranah, nejeli pereskazivat vse to chto mi slishali kogda uchilis v shkole, prichem ne sovsem mogli oprovergnut skaznnoe v silu svoih togda otnositelno ogranichennih znaniy.
Ya ne veryu v to chto islam eto religiya kotoraya sama po sebe smojet izmenit nashu jizn. Ved eto ochevidno chto lyudi sami doljni zahotet etih peremen. Skolko lyudey praktikuyushih islam na kajdodnevnoy osnove, obmanivayut drugih, otvergayut svetskiye znaniya, ne pridauyut doljnogo vnimaniya obrazovaniyu svoih detey i delayut ochen mnogoe chto prosto ne sootvetstvuyet obshim normam chelovecheskoy morali, i ne obyazatelno islamskim principam.
Religiya ne doljna vozvoditsya do urovnya nacionalnoy ideologii... ETO DOLJNO BIT LICHNIM DELOM KAJDOGO CHELOVEKA. Ne doljen molodoy mulla ili voobshe kto libo drugoy, sidya za odnim stolom na obichnom meropriyatii propagandirovat islam lyudyam starshim ego po vozrastu da i rovestnikam toje, vgonyaa ih v krasku, nadoedlivo spashivaya, "Namoz ukisizmi, uzi?Uyalmaysizmi?"
Ishing nima?! Otvetil bi ya...

[Oyaji]

Ne mog bi mnogouvajaemiy al-quds, opisat nineshnie dostijeniya v islamskih stranah, ....
Manimcha al-quds soqov, yani ozbecha-oricha gapirmaydi. :D

Please write in english to al-quds.

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,


I think Islam is not religion of choices.

i didnt say that that islam is areligion of choices, i ask you about your personal reason in not accepting islam in policy and society system .


Al-quds, can you please give us your brief version of ideal uzbekistan?!

here just some points about that,

1- about the wealth, every resource of wealth must be used in the optimum condition, to allow the best utilization of resources, oil, gas, cotton, industrial facilities, manufacturing areas,agricultural production ....... etc, and the earnings are used to make economic projects to solve the poverty problem, and supply other development projects .

2- good appointment of persons in the suitable places, to get the best utilization of the human resources according to skills and personal effectiveness, not any personal relations .

3- about possessing, it must be organized for individual, community, and government, as the important facilities that all residents use,must be appropriate, if was possessed by individual, that is danjerous on the society to put the important resources on hands of individuals .

4- work opportunities must be realized to every resident, and the government the first reponsible about that .

5- technology must be realized in the society in all fields, heavy industries, commnications, transportations, scientific fields, and scientists must be given there complete rights and all facilities must be given for them, and the ones who are out side, must be given to country, and acheive the good life for them .

6- civilization must be acheived as much as possible, according to the ability of the government, big markets, hotels, airports, .... etc .

7- planning must be done every time, studies and plans also renewed to study every possible change, and search for new resources .

8- all external challenges, the society must be harden to attack them, and to acheive the self dependency on the internal resources, if couldnt, then astrategic plan must be scheduled to make the self dependency according to the fetched sercumstances .

9- youth of the country, is the power that country will be constructed in, must be developed to utilize these human powers to construct the country, by finding youth centres to develop skills, ethical and development backgrounds of them, to create them as good personalities that the society depend on .

and there are alot to say, but i just choose these points as avery brief program program ...

thank u all very much

[al-quds muslim]

Manimcha al-quds soqov, yani ozbecha-oricha gapirmaydi. :D

Please write in english to al-quds.

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,

you can write directly, am here, and say with me face to face, what are u wanting to say ????

i know that your words may be hard against me, but i neglect alot of what alot of people says, and dont bother just by there valuable words, and the other words, we throw up .:)

waiting your reply

thank u all very much

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,


:) السلام عليكم
:) كل ذي لسان يقدر على القول , ولكن , ليس كل قول قابل للاعتبار, فليس كل ما يلمع ذهبا

please translate to (qyaji) in english
(BUT NO HARD SPEECH AGAINST YOU)

thankl u all very much

[Oyaji]

you can write directly, am here, and say with me face to face, what are u wanting to say ????


Olloi barak feek. Somebody was trying to comment on your post thinking you understand. I said al-quds doesn't speak uzbek-russian, so write him in english. No hard feelings.

[al-quds muslim]

oh, baraka allahu fika ya akhi,

thank u very much,
:) بارك الله فيك يا اخي , وشكرا جزيلا لك

thank u all very much

[Royal]

Orzuga ayib yoq
Yahshi tilak yarim mol degandek

Tuya hammomni orzu qiganakan Mirzacholda....!!

[Shokirbek]

Manimcha al-quds soqov, yani ozbecha-oricha gapirmaydi. :D

Please write in english to al-quds.

Boshqa tillarni bilmagan soqov bo'lsa, unda hammamiz soqov ekanmiz.

[Royal]

Manimcha al-quds soqov, yani ozbecha-oricha gapirmaydi. :D

Please write in english to al-quds.
til bilmasa soqow degan gap qattan keldi ??
miya bormi ozi ?

[Marg'iloniy]

Islomni iflos siyosatchilar o'zlarini g'arazli niyatlarida qo'llamasalar, haqiqiy islom davlatidan buyuk davlat bo'lmasdi. Ne afsusku, unaqa davlatni uzi yuq dunyoda.

Hozirgi dunyoda gullab yashnayotgan fan tehnikani beshigi islom davlatlarida bo'lgan. Haqiqiy halifalik davrida dunyo boyliklari Musulmonlarning oyog'i ostida oqib turgan. Lekin Ular bunga aldanmaganlar, boyliklarni o'tkinchi - foniy narsa dep bilganlar, islom mafkurasini ularga almashtirmaganlar.

Hamma narsani moddiylik bilan o'lchamaslik kerak, garb'liklarning Gyotesi: "Men dunyo tarihini o'qib shu hulosaga keldimki, butun dunyo podsholarini tuplagan boyliklari, qasrlaru saroylari Muhammad (SAV) ning yamoq yaktaklariga arzimas ekan", degan ekan.


If we want prosperious society we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology. Islam will be private life of everyone who wants to practice it. But we need consolidating ideology as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey. Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.

[Oyaji]

til bilmasa soqow degan gap qattan keldi ??
miya bormi ozi ?
Mincha seryozni bomasela :D. Kop eshitganman uzbda ingliz amerikan nemislani xazillashib "soqov" deyishganini, agar sizni tushunmasa.

Aytgancha, orislarda nemis sozi shundan keb chiqqan. Oldin xamma chetelliklar orislaga "nemoy" bolgan, keyin asta germonlari koproq bolgani uchun "nemets" bop ketgan.

Off-top chiqib ketdi, uzr.

[Aman]

I am not uzbek, but may I add as well?

I would like all of our Central Asian nations be true democracies, preferrably based on a very strong parliament. Countries where we can express our opinions freely not only on forums like this but in city halls, capital buildings and universities. Places where in Almaty all Kazakhs would have a chance to visit Uzbek cultural center and vice versa.

Freedom of expression and respect of each others' cultures!

[Hi there!]

I am very happy to see that somebody has a truely common sense.
Isn't it obvious that it's 21st century, we have to face the reality..Those stories about golden age of islam are in the past.Look what is happening to islamic countriestoday?! All of them are living below standarts. Even those of countries that are flourishing never put islam as a state ideology(except ones that became rich only due to oil availablity).
I respect all religions and faiths. However we need to understand that it just a private matter of each human being.

[kipchak]

ARe you not thinking too pragmatically Mr./Ms. Hi there?

Islam cannot be considered from pragmatic point of view.. A privet matter of each human being -- well look at the religion in "rich and developed and civilized countires" ? What else could be more deceptive than their so - called religion?

Certainly being pure Muslems will not answer to many question raised by post industrial wave. However its role is inevitable and never could be underestimated or overestimated, for that is the religion from our Creator, yours and mine, believe it or not.

Looking at the ideal uzbekstan from worldy life point of view - yes, i agree that we need to think more practically and need to come up with solutions that are not told in Kurani Kerim. One won;t find it that book the macroeconomic formulas and etc..

However looking at ideal uzbekistan from religious point of view - well, that where people differ cordially. Islam is considered here as a balance, as a source, as a center of life and universe which will guide human towards prosperity, for the real price for our life is in the Hereafter..

so i propose, with all due respect to all forum folks to consider the IDEAL UZB from both sides, but separately, otherwise, all we will get is confusion, and irritation, and that is not helpful.

sincerely
kipchak

[Sag'bonlik_qiz]

[quote=Marg'iloniy]Islomni iflos siyosatchilar o'zlarini g'arazli niyatlarida qo'llamasalar, haqiqiy islom davlatidan buyuk davlat bo'lmasdi. Ne afsusku, unaqa davlatni uzi yuq dunyoda.

quote]
_______________________________________

Seems like a childish talk. I dont want to hurt your dignity, saying smth negative about religion as ideology to govern state, but I think that none of Islamic states has a decent development model. Of course, Islam is a great faith, with tremendous history, but all these kaliphah stories are in the past.

Nowadays in real world if you want to live good, you HAVE to WORK, as you are a tiny part of a big mechanism. You need civil society around, social infrustructure, economic growth, political breaking news, your hopes and aspirations.To get it all you have to contribute to your society. Once we start to speak about ideal Uzbekistan, we have to eschew religious projects, as in reality it will not work, it will cause millions people flee somewhere else, while we need to find optimum model suitable for everyone. I wonder what will you do with people who do not practice Islam, or who is not Uzbek? "Chemodan! Vokzal! Rossia!" as Birlik claimed 14 years ago?

I asked you and repeat again who are these Islamic states who is doing well? Just 3-4 examples? Why after Zunami in Thailand and Indonesia, Muslim people called it as God punishment, instead of crying with these bewailed Muslims?Why Christian people ("Samaritan purse") constantly fund unique surgeries for small Uzbek children with heart deseases, others donate to orphans, while rich sheykhs sponsors only artificial pomp mosques? Why shii and sunni fight each other all the time? Political (attention)Islam is always in conflict with everyone in the world, and even with its kin brothers?

Thanks in advance for your answer

[Hi there!]

Obviously, we see that none of governments are treating religion "as a balance, as a source, as a center of life and universe which will guide human towards prosperity" and I don't think that's something tha we need in Uzbekistan now.
I can't even imagine that people in Uzbekistan will pray 5 times a day, 7 days a week and 100% will practice it. I wouldn't go for that...
And when you say that Islam is tolerant towards other religions, we know that it not like that. If you say islam is a relgion of equality, then look how people treat their wifes (can begin from mullas..)
For exapmle, can you imagine me insisting and teaching you to do something that I don't want to, while you are an adult with your own thoughts and ideals, and at the same time can you imagine yourself pushing me and persuading me to do something if I have my own views on life as well? Doesn't that sound logical to you?! Isn't that a democracy?!
Regarding my pragmatic views. I just really think that its of the best for Uzbekistan now. And I truely belive in idea of individualism. By legally doing something good for myself I am helping others as well. And if most of us would be happy doing a good job state should prosper. I can advice you a good book named "Martin Iden", try it maybe you'll understand me.

Cheers

[Marg'iloniy]

Dear Sag’bonlik qiz

Please read my post till the end before disputing or if you misunderstand my uzbek please let me know I’ll try to translate it for you.

Bog’dan kelsam tog’dan kelibdi didiku shunaqa bulibdi.

Anyway thank you for your response


Seems like a childish talk. I dont want to hurt your dignity, saying smth negative about religion as ideology to govern state, but I think that none of Islamic states has a decent development model. Of course, Islam is a great faith, with tremendous history, but all these kaliphah stories are in the past.

Nowadays in real world if you want to live good, you HAVE to WORK, as you are a tiny part of a big mechanism. You need civil society around, social infrustructure, economic growth, political breaking news, your hopes and aspirations.To get it all you have to contribute to your society. Once we start to speak about ideal Uzbekistan, we have to eschew religious projects, as in reality it will not work, it will cause millions people flee somewhere else, while we need to find optimum model suitable for everyone. I wonder what will you do with people who do not practice Islam, or who is not Uzbek? "Chemodan! Vokzal! Rossia!" as Birlik claimed 14 years ago?

I asked you and repeat again who are these Islamic states who is doing well? Just 3-4 examples? Why after Zunami in Thailand and Indonesia, Muslim people called it as God punishment, instead of crying with these bewailed Muslims?Why Christian people ("Samaritan purse") constantly fund unique surgeries for small Uzbek children with heart deseases, others donate to orphans, while rich sheykhs sponsors only artificial pomp mosques? Why shii and sunni fight each other all the time? Political (attention)Islam is always in conflict with everyone in the world, and even with its kin brothers?

Thanks in advance for your answer

[Sag'bonlik_qiz]

Dear Sag’bonlik qiz

Please read my post till the end before disputing or if you misunderstand my uzbek please let me know I’ll try to translate it for you.

Bog’dan kelsam tog’dan kelibdi didiku shunaqa bulibdi.

Anyway thank you for your response
__________________________
:) Marg'iloniy,

I can assure I understand every single word in Uzbek, and in my posting I transfered your rhetoric from the past to nowadays.

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,


I am very happy to see that somebody has a truely common sense.



Isn't it obvious that it's 21st century, we have to face the reality..Those stories about golden age of islam are in the past.

islam made great civilization in the past, that no one can ignore, and have ahigh civilized light to humanity in scienses and in thoughts, and islam which REALIZED that in the past, will inshallah do this NOW, and our great islamic history, which we respect, not allow any to say (stories) about it, alot of european scholars said about islamic khilafah in that time (muslim khilafah, civilization, science, is the source of the nowaday scientific revolution in europe, muslims were lighting the world at the time all europe was sleeping in struggles of the dark ages), and now YOU MR COME AND SAY STORIES!!!:o


Look what is happening to islamic countriestoday?!

countries which are u are calling by (islamic), not as that at all, they not reign by islam, but by there own dictatorism which is too far from islam, you can say about these countries as (countries in which muslims are living and punnished too):oops:

at last, why all against us in our thoughts to reign by our islam in our countries, and construct our islamic great state now adays as were before??? what is the mistake in that ??? all peoples construct there states, we not killing any, not obligating any, and at the time our YOUTH KILLED STILL UN-VIOLENT, AND ALL THE WORLD KNOW THAT THESE YOUTH ARE UN-VIOLENT WEAPONLESS POLITICAL ISLAMIC YOUTH, THEY ARE WANTING TO CHANGE THE BAD ADMINISTRATION THAT ALL THE COUNTRY SUFFERING FROM .

THANK U ALL VERY MUCH

[Bozorboy]

________________________

... Of course, I am do not support radical repression of Islamic clerics, NO. But we can adopt tolerant model, when religion should be personal matter, but in a state-building we need secular ideology to allow different people to live in peace in one country regardless how much per day they pray.


Sag'bonlik singlim, oldin Islom tarihini urganib chiqing keyin hulosalar chiqaring. Hech bulmasa Umar (RA) ning halifalik qilgan paytlarini uqib chiqing. Ushanda kurasiz kimda tolerent model bulgan ekan. Qanday qilib uzga dindagilar bilan muomala qilingalikni, Baytul mollaridan ularga ulashganliklari haqida qator qator hadislar, faktlar tarihda kitoblarida bitiligan. Daje mana Salohiddinni ham urganib chiqing. Ierusalimni ishgol qilganda uzga dinliklar bilan bulgan muomalasini.

Once you increase social tensions on religious ground, all russian-speaking population(many intelligent uzbeks among them) will flee overnight and you barely can find qualified labor force instead.And seemingly, if we allow religion dominate and flourish as state ideology Afganistan will be path to follow. No, thanks!

Nima musulmonlar tupoy bulib qolishibdimi? Kurdik intellegent Uzbeklar nima ishlar qilayotganini davlat tashkilotlarida. Hammasi porahur, Hudodan qurqmaydigan ablah bulib qolishgan. Tugri bor ayrim insoflilari lekin aynan usha insoflilari dindan habardor bulgan odamlarni tashkil qiladi. Beruniy, Ibn Sino kabi mashhur olimlar secular davlatizda kotta bulib mashxur bulishmagan shekilli.

Keyin Islomiy davlat qurish haqida gap ketganda hadeb Afgonistonni pesh qilavermasangizchi. Birinchidan Afgonistonni shunday holga tushurib quygan kimligini oldin eslang. Keyin, Amerikani Amerika bulishiga 400 yil ketgan edi. Bu tolibonlar atigi necha yil buldi islomiy dvalat quramiz deganinga. Ohirigacha shans berilmadiku. Uzbekiston man 16 yildan beri gullab yashnayman deb millionlab halqi hozir nochorlikda yashamoqda. Usha secular davlatimizni qulidan hech nima kelmadiku. U narsaga hech nima demaysiz. Deya olmaysiz ham.

[Bozorboy]

Seems like a childish talk. I dont want to hurt your dignity, saying smth negative about religion as ideology to govern state, but I think that none of Islamic states has a decent development model. Of course, Islam is a great faith, with tremendous history, but all these kaliphah stories are in the past.

The khaliphah is not a story. It was reality. Second, The khaliphah is something to take lots of examples. Don't get me wrong I am not in favour in establishing khaliphah in UZB and I am not one of HTs. Becuase Prophet SAW clearly stated that there will be no khaliphah after 5 khalifahs.

Nowadays in real world if you want to live good, you HAVE to WORK, as you are a tiny part of a big mechanism. You need civil society around, social infrustructure, economic growth, political breaking news, your hopes and aspirations.To get it all you have to contribute to your society.
Who said that all religious people just pray and nothing else. Childish talk . (Sounds similiar. Where did I pick it from?):lol:

Once we start to speak about ideal Uzbekistan, we have to eschew religious projects, as in reality it will not work, it will cause millions people flee somewhere else, while we need to find optimum model suitable for everyone.
What type of religious projects are you talking about?
Millions of people have already fled not becuase of religious projects, but becuase of your secular states projects. Calm down. millions of people will return to Uzbekistan if this secular rulers leave their posts. Why do you think that millions will flee the country? Give your arguments before making your statement.


I wonder what will you do with people who do not practice Islam, or who is not Uzbek? "Chemodan! Vokzal! Rossia!" as Birlik claimed 14 years ago?

Nothing will happen to people who do not practice Islam. Don't worry. Is there anything happening to Jews, Christians in Muslim countries nowadays?
Also do not associate Muslims or Islam with Birlik. They have nothing to do with Islam.

I asked you and repeat again who are these Islamic states who is doing well? Just 3-4 examples?
If they are not doing well, this os not because of Islam!!!!!!!!!! This is because of their ignorance and arrogance. ISlam had, has, and will have no shortcomings. It is some Muslims who had shortcomings in practising Islam.
Your well doing USA, UK, and other countries on the contrary are killing innocent people all over the world...


Why after Zunami in Thailand and Indonesia, Muslim people called it as God punishment, instead of crying with these bewailed Muslims? Why Christian people ("Samaritan purse") constantly fund unique surgeries for small Uzbek children with heart deseases, others donate to orphans, while rich sheykhs sponsors only artificial pomp mosques? Why shii and sunni fight each other all the time? Political (attention)Islam is always in conflict with everyone in the world, and even with its kin brothers?


Again, dont blame Islam for it. Islam is pure. Islam is not conflicting with anything. It is some people (like you) or countries conflicting with Islam.

Allah knows best.

[gulamus]

:super: Ideal Uzbekistan WUW.....
Orzularim ushlagan kun.....
Hozirgi Uzbekistan :) har doimgidek Ideal :shy: Mdaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
:multi: mana nima qilishadi Uzbekiston bilan bir umr... Uzni uje Ideal qilib bolmidi ...
Mayli kettim man Ideal Uzbekistonim sari... :twisted: :shocked!:

[al-quds muslim]

Nowadays in real world if you want to live good, you HAVE to WORK, as you are a tiny part of a big mechanism.

in the human societies, it is too false to consider humanity as machines, organizing societies is too different from that you mentioned before, as human needs are to be satesfied in asystem, not ALL TIME WORKING AS MECHINES .

You need civil society around, social infrustructure, economic growth, political breaking news, your hopes and aspirations.To get it all you have to contribute to your society.

and the islamic change idiology, not contradict those civilization aspects you have mentioned, at the contrary, support such aspects .


as in reality it will not work, it will cause millions people flee somewhere else, while we need to find optimum model suitable for everyone. I wonder what will you do with people who do not practice Islam, or who is not Uzbek? "Chemodan! Vokzal! Rossia!" as Birlik claimed 14 years ago?

not work?? , what is the evidence?? at the contrary of what you have said, all time stages, the islamic reign has several religions, and also several type of peoples in islam, and all of them were one hand in one state, jews lived in madinah from the early islam, islam give them all rights as residents, and till now adays .

and several ethnies, islam looked for all of them as humans, no one better than any just in the right work, and the physiological shapes not too considerable in preferance, and when the islamic army entered (samarkand city in uzbekistan) by anon suitable way, khalifah send to the army, and ordered them to go out, and the peoples of (samarkand) them selves opened doors to muslims to come, and not consider them as strange people, but humans that you must respect


I asked you and repeat again who are these Islamic states who is doing well?Just 3-4 examples?


till now no STATE reign by islam, so, you can say states for muslims, not islamic state, islam is the religion of muslims, but not the rules that the governments work by .so, when i say to you about islamic khilafah, i say, look to abu-bakr(r.a.a) the great ruler and look to state, omar bin al-khattab(r.a.a) who fill books by his great justice, how opened jerusalem and give christians there religious rights, although he was the victorious, look to mohammed alfatih(r.a.a), the young leader, and the list never end.

if u see just one leader of islamic history was wrong on some thing, you can notice that he was contradicting islam in that matter .


Political (attention)Islam is always in conflict with everyone in the world,

dear, to be in conflict with others, not means you are wrong, you can see alot of them killed with no purpose just he is holding islamic thoughts, just, and it is not aproblem in muslims, but in there enemies .

but at the same time, i dont say that muslims are too much good with them selves or others, but say that, islam is not the reason in that, at the contrary, islam requires from all muslims to help them selves, and others too .

and about oil, who said to you that muslims govern oil or gaz or any wealth type????? if they were in arab gulf, north africa, central asia, or any other place ??, please notice that shikhs of gulf are supplying the american disasters(such as katrina tornado), also supplying (british gardens) and (american wars), at the same time not bothering by what happening with muslims, do u expect for awhile that islam wants of them to do as that?????


THANK U ALL VERY MUCH

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM DEAR,


Becuase Prophet SAW clearly stated that there will be no khaliphah after 5 khalifahs.
.

you can see ahadith (... and there will khilafah rashidah on the method of prophithood) (sadaqa rasoul allah), and this in the same hadith after the bad rulings of obligator reign, which is the reign of today

at all, thank u very much as abrother and friend

THANK U ALL VERY MUCH

[Bozorboy]

I can't even imagine that people in Uzbekistan will pray 5 times a day, 7 days a week and 100% will practice it. I wouldn't go for that...

25 million odam uchun javob bermasangchi. Kuzinga kotta ish kurinib ketadi a 5 vaqt nomoz uqish. 5 vaqt giybat qilish, or TV kurish, Pivo ichgani borish, telefonda 2-3 soatlab utirish hech narsa emas.


And when you say that Islam is tolerant towards other religions, we know that it not like that. If you say islam is a relgion of equality, then look how people treat their wifes (can begin from mullas..)

How do you know? Do you spy them or sleep with them on the same bed? Or is this your job? Stupid argument!!!
Do you believe what religion teaches or what people do? Do not judge Islam by watching other people who claim they follow Islam.

For exapmle, can you imagine me insisting and teaching you to do something that I don't want to, while you are an adult with your own thoughts and ideals, and at the same time can you imagine yourself pushing me and persuading me to do something if I have my own views on life as well? Doesn't that sound logical to you?!
Who is insisting you to accpet Islam?

Isn't that a democracy?!
Democracy???? Ne smeshi maoi topichki:lol:

And if most of us would be happy doing a good job state should prosper.

At Last I could find something that I could not agree more. But what defines a "good job"? :-)

[Bozorboy]

Ayrim odamlar bilan talashib kelgandan keyin, endi uzimni fikrimni yozay Ideal Uzbekiston haqida.;)

Hukumat teppasiga davlatni insof bilan, adolat bilan boshqaradigan inson kelsa. U inson jaaaa Islomiy bulmasa ham, hudodan qurqib turadigan bulsa va shunga yarasha ish olib borsa. Hech bir din egalarini tahqirlamasa. Din erkinligini bersa. Aysi bir din egasi ikkinchi bir din egasini tahqirlasa qattiq jazolasa.
Iqtisodni kutarsa, qariyalarni izzatlasa va nochorlarga yordam bersa (ijtimoiy himoyani nazarda tutayapman). Kuchalarda uz ishxonasiga borganda yullarni bekitib quymasa.:lol:

Democracy deb hamma narsalarga ham erkinlik beravermasa (masalan gays, lesbians, pornos, drugs etc.)

Din arbiblari siyosatga aralashmay uz ishlarini qilishsa. Yani dinni tarqatish, tabliglarni amalga oshirish, madrasalar qurish, diniy maktablar, kutubhonalar qurish bilan mashgul bulsalar.

Savdo, tijorat erkinlashtirilib quyilsa, keraksiz poshlinalar va soliqlar olib tashlansa. Maktablar, va umuman talimga alohida etibor berilsa.

Ishsiz yurganlarga tekin kurslar tashkillashtirsa, ish bilan taminlasa. Porahurlikka qarshi qattiq kurashsa. Pora olganlarni ham bergnalarni ham pora olgan summadan 10 baravar shtraf tulatsa (good ide, isnt it? :-)))

Tekin Internet tochkalarni ochib quysa hamma regionlarda. Kutubhonlarni tiklab, yangi literaturalar bilan boyitsa va yoshlarni ulardan foydalanishga targib etsa.

Sportga ham yahshi etibor berilsa.

OVIR degan narsani olib tashlasa. Kallakesar, odam uldirgan, qattiq jinoyat qilganlarga amnistiyani otmen qilsa. Amnistiyaga faqatgina jabrlanuvchini roziligi bilan bersa. Shunda haqiqat buladi.

Qiynoqlarga chek quyilsa.

Qisqasi tilaklar rosa kup. Qolganini boshqa payt yozarman :-)

[Hi there!]

Для начала, уже приятно что ребятки, предлагающие ислам как основную идеологию и правящий режим согласились, что прецедента по созданию исламского государства и успешному существованию на сегодняшний день НЕТ, за исключением примеров с хадисов и других "научных" книг в которых якобы описывается расцвет исламского государства.
Конечно, легко критиковать западные государства говоря, что там тоже умирают люди, что там нет полной справедливости(все относительно), и что светский режим в Узбекистане ничего не может добиться вот уже 14лет.
С другой стороны, неужели вы не понимаете что ничего совершенного в этом мире нет, не было и не будет. Когда человечеству покажется что мир совершенен, тогда скорее всего и будут у нас большие проблемы. Некуда будет двигаться, станет скучно....
Но если у вас действительно есть серьезные доводы и вы действительно хотите реального разговора, а не просто переливать воду из пустого в порожнее и хотите "Нас" убедить, тогда приведите пожалуйста факты, цифры, докажите что исламский режим имеет сравнительные преимущества, имеет конкретный стратегический план развития экономики, конструктивные, законные и гласные методы управления государством, финансовые ресурсы, альтернативную модель развития человечества, развития демократии, увеличения социальных благ, принципов воспитания молодежи, образования и всего того чего светский мир добивается и строит все по кирпичику вот уже сколько лет(Потому что это на самом деле не легко). Докажите, что все это, что было перечислено выше и другие человеческие ценности могут быть достигнуты в гораздо быстрые сроки и с гораздо лучшими показателями! (также доказать что у верхушки исламского государства случайно опять не окажутся как вы там отмечали "неправильные люди").Если вы сможете расписать все это, убедить народ, молодежь, особенно ту которая знает что такое демократия и как не легко ее добиться, то как говориться floor is yours... Однако, если вы и впредь будете выражаться абстрактно, цитируя тех которые жили 8-9 столетий назад, говоря "тогда жили прекрасно", не обосновывая это реальными фактами, то нечего одурманивать людей. Пора бы уже понять что демагогия болезненна и очень даже губительна. Там где вы учитесь если это достойный университет с достойными профессорами, сами знаете как бы они оценили ваши доводы которые не подкреплены никакими серьезными фактами. Они бы сказали "утопия, нельзя копировать модель одного государства в одном временном промежутке, из одного контекста особенно если уже прошло добрых несколько столетий и предлагать использовать ее в современном мире", или чего хуже сделали бы записку на вашем письменном манифесте, "нет ЛОГИКИ, нет Критического анализа, нет достоверной информации. Failed..."

[Hi there!]

Mda,, prochital ya posledniy kommentariy k svoemu postingu i ponyal chto nado obrashyat vnimaniye ot kogo poluchaesh otvet. Kajetysa posledniy molodoy chelovek kak ushel iz doma za dvumya meshkami kartoshki tak i ne vernulsya, tak je kak i ego mozgi, gulyayut gde to...v daleke ot svoego hozyaina..
Net net, vot viju vrodi bi vernulis, nachal pisat o chem to pozitivnom? polojitelnom. Vot eto drugoye delo, uje gorazdo luchshe..Malades...

Kstati v promejutkah mejdu meshkami s kartoshkoy, nado bi nauchitsya hotyabi ne perehodit na ti i soblyudat distanciyu..

A naschet idealnogo Uzbekistana ya na samom dele jelal bi chto bi tak ono i bilo, no navernmoye nam nado bolshe obsujdat kakim obrazom mi smogli bi etogo dostich..

[Bozorboy]

Originally Posted by Bozorboy
Becuase Prophet SAW clearly stated that there will be no khaliphah after 5 khalifahs.
.


Sorry. I need to make some clarifications here. It happens when I rush.
Firstly, not 5 khaliphas, but 4. Second, the hadith states to the nearest meaning that there will be no khalifahs but kingdomhood after 40 years after his death. I just assumed 4 khalifas that came after our beloved Prophet SAW. Therefore, the termin "there will be no khaliphas after 4 khaliphahs" is not part of the hadith.

Auvfan, brothers and sisters.

[Lorelei]

T: allo!
L: Lorelei Co LTD
T: Uzbekistonga bormoqchi edim...
L: Biz tayyor, qaysi shahri, qanday manzara, qaysi mavzu....
Xuddi shunday tasavvur qilaman 10 yildan keyingi hayotimni Uzbekiston bilan bog'liq qismini. Turizm sohasida kelajagi bor Uzbekistonni, faqat uni aqlga sig'adigan narxlarda tashkil qilish kerak deb bilaman. Kelajakda Uzbekistonda katta uzgarishlar bulishiga ishonaman, hozir Qozog'iston bosib utayotgan yo'lni yaqin kunlarda biz ham bosib utamiz. Rivojlanish yuq, u bu degan bilan ma'lum darajada odamlar uz yo'lini topishga harakat qilishyapdi, hech kim bekor utirgani yuq, bugun hamma yoqni damas bosib ketgan bulsa, erta bir kun chegara ochilib chet el moshinasi bosib ketadi. Rossiyani olamiz yaqinda shu ketishda:lol: ...

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,

dear, the hadith about khilafah, said that khilafah will be how much allah wants, then allah take it above, then there will be areign of sons after there fathers, then allah take it away, then, there will be harden taken rule by power, then allah take it , after that, there will be khilafah rashidah on the method of prophethood

sadaqa rasoul allah

and i will give the forumers the whole text

please wait

thank u all

[Bozorboy]

Mda,, prochital ya posledniy kommentariy k svoemu postingu i ponyal chto nado obrashyat vnimaniye ot kogo poluchaesh otvet. Kajetysa posledniy molodoy chelovek kak ushel iz doma za dvumya meshkami kartoshki tak i ne vernulsya, tak je kak i ego mozgi, gulyayut gde to...v daleke ot svoego hozyaina.. ..

Mdaaa, Ya tak i dumal chto ti kakoy nibud extrasens. Znayesh u kogo jeni chto delayut ili u kogo mozgi gde to gulyayut.

I never tried to insult you, but you did. It shows how.... Well, nevermind. I don't want to be one of you.

Peace.

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM

RASOUL ALLAH (SALLA ALLAHU ALAIHI WA SALLAM)SAID :
(The prophethood is in you as Allah wills to is then he raises it if Allah wants that it raises it, then is a caliphate on the prophethood method, then it is as Allah wills that it irons If he wanted that he brings it, then is a biting reign then it is as Allah wills to is then it brings it if it wants that it brings it, then is a compulsory reign then is what Then a caliphate on the prophethood method was working in the people by the Prophet's Sunna and the Islam meets with a boldness in the land that the sky citizen is pleased with And the land citizen he does not leave the sky from Qatar not to I hit him an abundant, and he does not leave the land from its plant and no its blessings of a thing not to it brought him)

MUSNAD AHMED

RAWAHU HUTHAIFAH MARFUA'AN TO AHMED

[kipchak]

Для начала, уже приятно что ребятки, предлагающие ислам как основную идеологию и правящий режим согласились, что прецедента по созданию исламского государства и успешному существованию на сегодняшний день НЕТ, за исключением примеров с хадисов и других "научных" книг в которых якобы описывается расцвет исламского государства.
Конечно, легко критиковать западные государства говоря, что там тоже умирают люди, что там нет полной справедливости(все относительно), и что светский режим в Узбекистане ничего не может добиться вот уже 14лет.
С другой стороны, неужели вы не понимаете что ничего совершенного в этом мире нет, не было и не будет. Когда человечеству покажется что мир совершенен, тогда скорее всего и будут у нас большие проблемы. Некуда будет двигаться, станет скучно....
Но если у вас действительно есть серьезные доводы и вы действительно хотите реального разговора, а не просто переливать воду из пустого в порожнее и хотите "Нас" убедить, тогда приведите пожалуйста факты, цифры, докажите что исламский режим имеет сравнительные преимущества, имеет конкретный стратегический план развития экономики, конструктивные, законные и гласные методы управления государством, финансовые ресурсы, альтернативную модель развития человечества, развития демократии, увеличения социальных благ, принципов воспитания молодежи, образования и всего того чего светский мир добивается и строит все по кирпичику вот уже сколько лет(Потому что это на самом деле не легко). Докажите, что все это, что было перечислено выше и другие человеческие ценности могут быть достигнуты в гораздо быстрые сроки и с гораздо лучшими показателями! (также доказать что у верхушки исламского государства случайно опять не окажутся как вы там отмечали "неправильные люди").Если вы сможете расписать все это, убедить народ, молодежь, особенно ту которая знает что такое демократия и как не легко ее добиться, то как говориться floor is yours... Однако, если вы и впредь будете выражаться абстрактно, цитируя тех которые жили 8-9 столетий назад, говоря "тогда жили прекрасно", не обосновывая это реальными фактами, то нечего одурманивать людей. Пора бы уже понять что демагогия болезненна и очень даже губительна. Там где вы учитесь если это достойный университет с достойными профессорами, сами знаете как бы они оценили ваши доводы которые не подкреплены никакими серьезными фактами. Они бы сказали "утопия, нельзя копировать модель одного государства в одном временном промежутке, из одного контекста особенно если уже прошло добрых несколько столетий и предлагать использовать ее в современном мире", или чего хуже сделали бы записку на вашем письменном манифесте, "нет ЛОГИКИ, нет Критического анализа, нет достоверной информации. Failed..."


Я не совсем понимаю твоей логики Hi There.. ты что хочешь что бы тебе тут всю историю Ислама что ли написали, как эта религия повлияла на ход истории, на жизни миллионов или миллардов людей, как Шариат регулирует мораль и нравственность нации, и особенно молодежи..

или может нам тебе книгу написать о том как воспитывать молодежт согласно нормам Ислама..

Ведь ислам не заключает в себе развитие экономии Узбекистана или любой другой страны, не предлагает методы управления государством...

Ислам учит нас как прожить нашу жизнь согласно воле Аллаха, а то что ты перечислил наверху должно быть все развито согласно принципам Ислама..

Ведь читаю твои посты, такой умный и грамотный парень, а судишь об Исламе так поверхностно, может тебе стоит перечитать кое какую литературу сперва и потом рассуждать об Исламе так цинично..

Надеюсь не задел тебя, если задел то извини.
Аллах нам судья
с уважением

[Oyaji]

A naschet idealnogo Uzbekistana ya na samom dele jelal bi chto bi tak ono i bilo, no navernmoye nam nado bolshe obsujdat kakim obrazom mi smogli bi etogo dostich..

Guys, thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

But half of the posts relate to islam as a state. Why is it so important to ideal uzb?

Yes, it's important, and there is no way it shouldn't be. Because our best part of history owes islam. But still I personally think today it should remain each and individuals private matter. Rather than talking-talking all the time about islam, we must keep it in ourselves, apply it in practice, and the fruits of this practice should be visible in our DEEDS.

Why islam has not given us back anything for the last 10 or so centuries... Because all we have been doing is a goddamn TALKY-TALK. All of us know uzb will never be Islamic state, but we keep talking, are we not so sure about our faith that we keep talking, time is being lost while not doing work!!!

Dil-bayoru-dast-bakor. There are so many other things we can be discussing right now, which have more practical importance. Even prophet once said (if i'm not mistaken) "Take care of your prayer, but tie your camel first!".

Well, our camels will be running away like this.

In my opinion, we should be paying attention to other, even small, issues too.

[ajoyib_bola]

Oppressed people, disabled people, orphans, sick people, widows are not looked upon as if forgotten by God or cursed by Allah. They have equal opportunity in the society to succeed like everyone else. No discrimination on the basis of religious beliefs. No dominating religion (especially Islam).
Free market economy and 100% democracy not a theocracy.

[FREEMAN]

If we want prosperious society we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology. Islam will be private life of everyone who wants to practice it. But we need consolidating ideology as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey. Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.

nimala devos. turkiyada nechi yil yashadiz? ataturkni otini umuman bu forumda tilga omang iltimos. ataturkni yulidan ketgandan kura Bush'ni yuli yahshiro. laikizm dep ham gapirmang. kurdik turkiyani laiklik dep qanday jinni hollarga tuship qoganini. tupikka kirip qolishgan . ataturk laikizm dep. uzbekistondan Hudo asrasin ee bunaqa narsani. E Hudo o'zing asra ( amiiinn) sungi yillarda g'arib va bahti qaro halqqa aylandik. Endi O'zing bunday yo'llardan asra (amiin)

[Bozorboy]

Dil-bayoru-dast-bakor. There are so many other things we can be discussing right now, which have more practical importance. Even prophet once said (if i'm not mistaken) "Take care of your prayer, but tie your camel first!".

Manimcha saal adashdingiz bu hadithda. Man "Oldin otingni bog'la, keyin tavakkal qil" deb eshitganman.

Allah knows best.

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM

But half of the posts relate to islam as a state. Why is it so important to ideal uzb?
.
that because islam is too much important in performing the future of ahigh civilized society, and ideal uzbekistan, and also it is important to establish anew islamic political system to build new uzbekistan, better than uzbekistan of the day .


Yes, it's important, and there is no way it shouldn't be. Because our best part of history owes islam. But still I personally think today it should remain each and individuals private matter.
.
islam not only organizes individual matters, but islam olso organizes groups, society, community, and also humanity, in all aspects and views, and also dear, the thing which has good past, has abig opportunity to has good present and future, and you can see alot of western countries wanted democracy which is an old thought made by greeks before thousands of years .

Rather than talking-talking all the time about islam, we must keep it in ourselves, apply it in practice, and the fruits of this practice should be visible in our DEEDS.
.
yes ofcourse, islam is agroup of ideas that all the work depend on, as every work done is built on thoughts about that work, and when we say to built an islamic society and islamic state, we dont just talk, but also put the plan to that work, and begin in our project, and talking with this idea, is the first step to develop it in the real case .

All of us know uzb will never be Islamic state, but we keep talking, are we not so sure about our faith that we keep talking, time is being lost while not doing work!!!
.
dear, did you knew the future and know that uzbekistan will not be islamic state??, dear, you must be more pesimestic, there are alot of workers, you may not know, or you may know, it is not amatter, but alot of workers are wanting to do alot, but till now, they faced alot of challenges that made there work absent, and also, it is not also to blame if you didnt see who work, why not every one ask him self(what am i work to change our bad conditions), as you knows, rasoul allah said in hadith (if the qiyamah [the last day] happens, and one of you have asmall plant in his hand, he is to plant it), and know that islam is not areligion of talks, but of work too, and please dear, there is also aproverb says (to light just asmall candle is better than blaming darkness 1000 times).

THANK U ALL VERY MUCH

[cosonic]

al-quds muslim !I appreciate your religious belief! Why you insist Uzbekistan shoul be a muslim country ?
I think Uzbekistan already an muslim country !
If you want us to see as a Saudi Arabia You should wait for a long time !
Let me adivse you something : It really hard even impossible for Uzbekistan and Uzbek society to accept the regulation such as Saudia Arabia own's.
You know our counrty somewhat democratic and so on....

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,

I think Uzbekistan already an muslim country !

dear, uzbekistan as any country that muslims -and non muslims also- live in, when we say that it must be developed as amuslim state, we means that the system of the state it self must be islamic, and now it is not, as you see islam contradict alot of works that uzbek government works, and also the laws of the country contradict islam, also alot of usual life relations arent builted on islam .

If you want us to see as a Saudi Arabia You should wait for a long time !
Let me adivse you something : It really hard even impossible for Uzbekistan and Uzbek society to accept the regulation such as Saudia Arabia own's.

1- saudi arabia is not an (islamic society), as not reign by islam , you can see also alot of laws that contradict islam too, although saudi arabia has agood islamic grade in the life, but still not islamic state, and reign by dectatoric kingdom laws that allah not accept .

2- about uzbekistan, why you are pesimestic to construct an islamic state there, if the people wants that state, and look for islam as the pricple of life that they are wanting in life, that will solve alot of problems you see in now, and dont see that the process will take alot of time inshallah .

You know our counrty somewhat democratic and so on....

yes ofcourse, i see its democracy through works of the president!!!, but dear, uzbekistan is your country, and you must WORK HARD TO MAKE your country developed and right, and your people must work hard to change it to the best shape that allah wants what ever was the cost.

also, as an uzbek muslim people, you must reject the bad democratic laws that allah not accept, such as gay, lesbian,riba, driking drugs, and alot of what democracy see right, and allah ban, and i see that there must be ahard well from the people against such mistaken things.

yes it is hard to change, but not means to acept these bad aspects

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,

Why you insist Uzbekistan shoul be a muslim country ?


THE CREATOR GIVE HIS MESSAGE TO HUMANITY THROUGH PROPHITS, AND ISLAM NOW IS THE LAST ONE THROUGH P.MOHAMMED SAAW, AND ALLAH SAID IN BIBLE FOR CHRITIANITY, AND FOR JEWS IN TORAA, TO FOLLOW ISLAM.

SO THAT, IF YOUR COUNTRY HAS THE HONOUR TO BE AN ISLAMIC STATE, IT IS GRAET HONOUR FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND WILL BE TOO LUCKY, TO LEAD THE HUMANITY TO ORDERS OF ITS CREATOR, AND THIS HONOUR, NOT EVERY ONE WHO WANT IT GET IT, DEAR, WHEN WE SAY THAT UZBEKISTAN BECOME KHILAFAH, BE SURE, THAT ALL PROBLEMS OF YOUR COUNTRY AND HUMANITY TOO WILL BE SOLVED .

WHY?? ,BECAUSE THAT MEANS THAT ALL PROBLEMS ARE TO BE SOLVED BY THE SOLVENTS OF ALLAH, WHICH ARE THE ONLY RIGHT SOLUTIONS, AS THESE SOLVENTS ARE FROM THE CREATR(ALLAH) HIM SELF
AND NOW THE DICSUSSION MUST BE CHANGED FROM (WHY DEMOCRACY), TO BE (WHY NOT ISLAM) .

AND SOME ARE WANTING DEMOCRACY, DID THEY REALIZED THAT DEMOCRACY WILL SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS?? AND ARE THE DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES HAVE NO PROBLEMS?? AND AT THE SAME TIME, DID THEY STUDIED ISLAM AND REALIZED THAT ISLAM ISNT WORKABLE ???

DEAR, THE DISCUSSION IN THIS TOPIC HAS ALOT TO SAY, AND ALSO ALOT OF EVIDENCES, BUT WE HAVE THE EVIDENCE .

BUT NOTICE THAT, HERE WE DONT TAKE EVERY THING, BUT SOME BRIEF ASPECTS .

THANK U VERY MUCH

[Shahnoz]

Вай вай вай... а чё, здесь по узбекски никто не говорит?!! :shock:
Хотела пост оставить... думаю, шарманда бумасдан... тинчгина... сурвораман...

[al-quds muslim]

SALAMU ALAIKUM,

dear,

the civilization process you are wanting, is not easy at all, as when you say the (change), you means avery sensitive word, that touch every part of your country on all sides, and this process wants alot to be done, but not impossible.

when you are saying about change, you need the following,


1- ediology that your society will beleive in and go to hold and practise, in all life aspects, and i see that (ISLAM) will be that great ediology that will help your country to be developed, as islam isnt only areligion, but also amethod for life, that organize the society to be developed .

2- high powers on several sides, educational scientific power, economical power, armor power, ... etc , and all know that your country can have such powers if have agood leadership, uzbekistan is acountry with good amount of resources by all its types .

3- all outern powers that may collapse your country, or steel its powers, must be taken out .

4- and the most important point is, dont be pessimestic if say big challenges, beleive that you are harder than them, as the current conditions are too bad as i and others see, not only on uzbekistan, but also on all regions .

5- hard work to spend,and long time to wait, patiance is wanted, as development isnt easy, and never to have it in 24 hours.

6- and the most important thing, how much you beleive in your ediology, you will pass the hard way of development harder .

7- development process also needs alot of your 1st class youth to be punnished, and some time killed, and as there are alot who dont want the development way to take its way .

may allah help us to get the wanted development

thank u all very much

[Oyaji]

Actually, it would great to see how inhabitants of our country, of any nationality, feel themselves at home.

So that they work towards one general goal - building their own home. But at the same time they understand that their home is an Uzbek land.

Especially this refers to our ancient brothers tajik, and our recent brothers russians. They need to understand that whatever were their legacy in this land, however ancient or recent, since long enough time and right now it is a land of Turkic.

They would speak uzbek, see their present and future in uzbekistan, work towards their own and country's well-being. In our turn, we uzbeks, would give credit for and protect their achivements.

[cosonic]

al-quds muslim being realistic is the appropriate type of living! just try to seee truth no one can do this ! there are lots of banners if you even try this they will give you the answer! just believme in this XXI we cant do and to be honest I dont think it will solve everythin!

[al-quds muslim]

AS-SALAMU ALAIKUM,
al-quds muslim being realistic is the appropriate type of living!
dear, we know that nowadays are hard days, our present is too hard, but we are to challenge to form our goals, no thing will come easy, and the winds going against the ship, but the ship must complete its journey .

you can see that every country have challenges, and also those ones which have high living level, and the developed ones, no country will pass with no hardness, but, we are responsible to make whatever we can, and after that, all results are realted to allah .and you, must do whatever you can, and thats all.


just try to seee truth no one can do this ! there are lots of banners if you even try this they will give you the answer!

iam with afact saying that, when every one will say (we cant, I cant, ... etc), whats to do then??? to stop?? to set down and look for a(miracle)???, meracles time ended, and now we are in the working time, but with the fact that we must get the victory, when ever one do his work good, every thing will go better and better, till having the required goal .and know dear that, in our society, we have every thing, but without aplan, without ajoint work, but about resources, they are alot, and the success opportunity is high if the work goes good .

dear, if you faced hardness today, it is not every thing, that dont means that the success roads are closed .

at all, do what ever you can, but dont stop, challenges will be in your road if you stopped, then ???????????????


thank you all very much

[Bekzod_usa]

Ideal uzbekistan bulishi uchun yillar kerak buladi...bunga erishish uchun butun halq asosan yoshlar buni tushunib yetishi kerak...
Ko'pchilik faqat uzini uylaydi yoki poraho'rlik bilan institutlarga kiradi... ko'p narsaga e'tiborsizlik bilan qaraydi natijada uzbekiston rivojlanishi sekinlashadi... man uzbekistondaligimda o'rtoqlarim bilan gaplashib hayron qolardim ular shu kollejlarga pul-mul bilan kirvolishadi-da...
keyin diplom osam buldi deb yurishaverishadi hulas all I wanna say is hamma faqat uzini uylormasdan vatan uchun ham jon kuydirish kerak !!!
Qo'shimcha fikrlar uchun oldindan rahmat !!!

[Oyaji]

keyin diplom osam buldi deb yurishaverishadi hulas all I wanna say is hamma faqat uzini uylormasdan vatan uchun ham jon kuydirish kerak !!!
Qo'shimcha fikrlar uchun oldindan rahmat !!!

Qani edi hamma xaqiqatan xam ozini oylasa.

Rostdan kerak narsa bu bir parcha qogoz emas, rost bilim emasmi. Xaligi faqat diplom deb yurganlar xech xam ozini oylagani emas, aksincha ozini oylamagani!

Ozbeklarning eng katta muammosi, fikrimcha, odamlar ozidan oldin boshqalarni ishini oylashi. Bunda islomni xam, komunizm sari xarakatni xam xissasi bor.

Togri kongilchanlik-mexribonlik yaxshi, lekin natijani koring: doim bir maxalla-qishloq otirib olib "U kim, Bu nima" ensiklopediyasini ochib oqishadi, maxalla bolmasa xam, kamida dostlaringiz, qarindoshlaringiz shunday qiladi.

Shu kichik narsa bolsa xam umuman bir ishga qol urgan odamga kansentrassa qilishga xalaqit beradi (directly or subconsiously), atmosferani Ishga emas Safsataga qaratadi.

:(

[Han]

maktab o'quvchilari kolhozchilikdan qutqariladigan zamondagina Uzb rivojlanish yoliga qadam tashlagan bo'ladi. qolgani bekor. nimaymish? taraqqiyot, mustaqillik, buyuk davlat, obodonlik, qariyalik, sog'lom avlod! e o'rgildim alvastini abraka dabra shvabrasiga o'xshagan gaplar hammasi.
qaysi shior bilan chiqsak shu sezon o'sha narsaning "qorniga tepamiz". ideal uzbekiston Qof tog'ining orqasida hozirgi mentalitet bilan.



yana xafa bo'lib yurmasin hech kim. o'z o'zimga gapiriyapman. o'rganib qolganman jonim siqilganda shunaqa qilib razryqdka qilishga :)

[al-quds muslim]

al-quds muslim being realistic is the appropriate type of living!


i will see you the (appropriate realistic life), you are saying about,

1- let karimov kill your people by his forces every day .

2- let all countries from different types to take your oil wealth

3- let poverty kill your people all the time

4- let the youth of your country with no work for ever

5- let the average salary for your country 25 $ that cant give bread for afamily just for amonth .

6- let other super powers, take all your country as bases for there forces.

7- let your human power travell out side, to let your country one of the worst developed countries, and build other developed countries


and ......

IS THAT THE REALISTIC APPROPRIATE LIFE YOU ARE WANTING TO GIVE FOR YOUR COUNTRY ??????:evil: :rolleyes:

OK OK , THANK YOU VERY MUCH ON THIS GREAT! SUGGESTION DEAR


PEACE

[UzLand]

If we want prosperious society we have to forget about Islam as state principal ideology. Islam will be private life of everyone who wants to practice it. But we need consolidating ideology as Ataturk created in 1923 in Turkey. Ideal Uzbekistan- Secular great state, that would welcome people with various backgrounds and with free market economy.

Turkism is a great consolidating ideology.

[Shokirbek]

O'zbekistondagi yurakni larzaga soladigan voqealardan yana biri mana bu yerda (http://www.uzbekcongress.org/congress3/sirdaryo.html). Bu voqealarni kuzatib, beixtiyor yoqa ushlaysan. Tovba.. Nahotki, o'z singling, qardoshingni shu holga keltirasan?!

Bu quturganlarni to'xtatish uchun nima qilish kerak? Menimcha, indamay chetdan beparvolarcha qarab turish ham jinoyat bo'lsa kerak.

[FrankOlive]

FREEDOM

Who would wish for less? Or could expect more....