Comparative Religion: Islam & Mormonism

[Shogird]

Note: I want to know your opinion about the similarities between these two religious traditions. This is not a debate thread.

Source (http://www.danishgrove.com/yildiz/writings/islam-and-mormonism.html):
Islam & Mormonism
Similarities Between Muhammad & Joseph Smith
by ilhan YILDIZ (http://www.danishgrove.com/yildiz/index.html)
(Turkish Professor)

http://www.danishgrove.com/yildiz/gallery/2002-10-06/ilhan-yildiz-and-talip-kucukcan.jpg


Two of the world's fastest growing religions, Islam and Mormonism, have a number of things in common. Their respective founding prophets, Muhammad and Joseph Smith, also share several interesting similarities. The following is a brief survey of some of the more obvious commonalities.

Background on Islam

Islam was revealed through Muhammad, who was born in the city of Mecca in what is now Saudi Arabia. Like Joseph Smith, Muhammad claimed to have visions, dreams and revelations from God. One day he was meditating alone in a cave on Mount Hira. There, he said he received a vision wherein the Angel Gabriel told him to preach of God's nearness and to proclaim God's will to His people.

Following persecution by the people of Mecca, Muhammad fled to Medina where he was exalted as king and accepted as a prophet of God. From his teachings, the religion of Islam grew and the revelations were put together into a book called the Koran. In the teaching of Islam, the Koran supersedes all other revelations. The Koran is the most inspired and important book of all. Islam does embrace portions of the Bible such as the books of Moses, the psalms of David and the words of Jesus. However, the Koran is the holiest, highest and most important of all the revelations of God.

Background on Mormonism

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was established through Joseph Smith in 1830. Ten years earlier, as a boy fourteen years of age, Smith said that he went to a grove of trees to pray and ask God which Christian denomination he should join. He was confused by the various religious claims and did not know which of all the competing groups was correct. While praying, Smith received a vision in which God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him and instructed him not to join any of the existing churches, because none of them were the true Church of Jesus Christ.

Three years later, an angel named Moroni visited Joseph Smith and told him about a sacred record that existed in addition to the Bible. The original ancient text was engraved upon gold metal plates, written in a lost language, and hidden in a nearby hill named Cumorah. Smith explained that this angel had appeared to him in vision and told him where these gold plates were located. In 1827, the angel allowed Smith to retrieve the golden plates and take them home. Smith eventually translated the engravings by the gift and power of God, using ancient "seer stones" known as the Urim and Thummim. This translation was eventually published in 1830 as the Book of Mormon. It receives its name from the primary prophet who's writings are recorded in the book.

Similarities
Muhammad and Smith were both visited by an angel. Smith was visited by Moroni and Muhammad by Gabriel.

Muhammad and Smith were both given visions.

Muhammad and Smith were both told that no true religion existed on the earth at that time.

Muhammad and Smith were both instructed to restore the long lost faith of the one true religion. Islam makes the claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims. Mormons believe that their community is the restored Church of Jesus Christ that existed anciently.

Muhammad and Smith both produced a book inspired by God, that they consider to be scripture given in addition to the Bible.

Muhammad and Smith were both uneducated. This is seen, in both cases, to support the belief that producing such a book was beyond their ability and that it must therefore be truly inspired.

Muhammad and Smith both taught that the texts of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament had suffered loss, alteration, and corruption.

Muhammad and Smith both taught that their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.

Muhammad and Smith both taught that the original copy of their holy book was not in their possession. Muslims believe that the Koran is a copy of an original "tablet" which is in heaven. Mormons believe that after the Book of Mormon was translated, the Angel Moroni retrieved the gold plates and re-concealed them.

Muhammad and Smith both saw their work as representing some kind of end. Muhammad taught that he was the last prophet. Smith taught that his era, or dispensation, was the last one before the Second Coming of Christ

Both Muhammad and Smith have a connection to ancient, religiously significant, stones. Islam has the "black stone" imbedded into the side of the Holy Ka'ba in Mecca. Smith used "seer stones," the Urim and Thummim, to translate the original Book of Mormon text from "Reformed Egyptian" into English.

Both Muhammad and Smith were forced to endure forced expulsions. Muhammad was driven from Mecca to Medina. Smith was driven from New York State to Ohio, from there to Missouri, and then on to Illinois.

Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus are major figures in both Islam and Mormonism. Muslims and Mormons both accept that the one true religion of God was practiced and taught by each of these individuals during their life-times.

Mormons believe that the body is sacred and that people should dress modestly. Islam too has a strict moral and dress code.

[Shogird]

Glossary

Mormon
A nickname for a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Use of this term is informal slang.

Mormon Church
A nickname for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Use of this term is inaccurate and offensive.

Mormonism
A nickname for the religion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Use of this term is informal slang.

Source (http://www.danishgrove.com/yildiz/glossary/index.html)

[Iqbol]

Without reading your thread, it is known that the mormonism is not a religion, it is just a deviant sect, according to the majority of christian sects, deviant as well.
So, no need to loose your time...

[Shogird]

Without reading your thread, it is known that the mormonism is not a religion, it is just a deviant sect, according to the majority of christian sects, deviant as well.
So, no need to loose your time...
I advise to read this article anyway:D This is very interesting point. Yes mainstream Christian do not consider Mormonism as Christian. Joseph Smith claims that he received the message from an Angel. As you know Mormonism is fastest growing religion in US.
The question I am interested is religious revelations and how to authenticate them.

See what Mormons say about Islam (http://www.meridianmagazine.com/historybits/0209120muslim.html)

[Pinkie]

Ah, you know polygamy is also permissible in Mormonism?

[Iqbol]

Ah, you know polygamy is also permissible in Mormonism?

You know, Pinkie, their polygamie has nothing in common with Islam. It's incomparable.

[Shogird]

Ah, you know polygamy is also permissible in Mormonism?
Yes. Thank you for reminding that. Once I saw Inkognito's post where she said that "flesh" was weak and power corrupts man. Just imagine you are male and you have absolute authority over females who sit and stand with your single word. Read about Joseph Smith or Rev. SUN MYUNG MOON's private life. (http://www.newcovpub.com/unification/wfwp3.html)

[Alouddin]

Shogird,

this is getting off the top now. Why don't you compare Christianity and Mormonism?.. Mormonism is not even a religion in the first place!

I for one think that there is absolutely no need to compare Islam with anything else, ok?..

Alouddin

[Shogird]

Alloudin, thanks for unlocking this thread. May Lord grants you understanding of true way of salvation. God bless you.

[Pinkie]

Yes. Thank you for reminding that. Once I saw Inkognito's post where she said that "flesh" was weak and power corrupts man. Just imagine you are male and you have absolute authority over females who sit and stand with your single word. Read about Joseph Smith or Rev. SUN MYUNG MOON's private life. (http://www.newcovpub.com/unification/wfwp3.html)
I agree with Nostalgique that concept of polygamy in mormonism and Islam is different (esepcially when it comes to rights of women. Read Surah An-Nisa). What I love most about Islam, is the rights it gives to women and orphan children most especially:). Let's just read an ayah from An-Nisa:

"If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, then marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; But ifyou fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them), then marry one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."--4:4

Some have this misconception that Muslim men marry more than one woman because they are sexual perverts (Astaghfiruallah). Is it not permissible to marry a woman who is a widow and in need of financial assistance and a roof over her head? A captive whom his right hands posses (a very lawful way and beneficial too). It doesn't say every Muslim man must have four wives. If he can't act justly with all four of his wives then it is better if he only marries one in order to give her complete fair treatment.

I am not sure of the Mormon perspective of polygamy (if anyone has any information, can you please send it to me?). All I know is that I would see them on the news because they were famous for having more than one wife on American soil. I don't agree with Mormons in general but I will ask you Shogird, since you are a Christian. Why was polygamy banned in Christianity? Maybe it's a little offtopic but it gives you something to think about.

Actually, Mormons are coming to New York now. I guess Utah was boring. Well, I'm talking about the missionaries. They usually stand around in the shopping centers near my house. They are trying to attract minorities into their ideology (I live in a mixed neighborhood, mostly composed of Chinese and Mexican immigrants).

I have heard of Rev. Sun Myung Moon before. I don't know your stance on him. He is a complete nut job. "MOON WANTS YOU TO BOW DOWN TO HIM". Joseph Smith too.

Ya Allah:shock:

[HAKIKAT]

Dear Shogird, first of all, through such provocative comparisons you'll never get that reaction from moslems which you'd expected before...

I mean the followings:

I don't know if my Moslem Brothers and Sisters agree with me or not but would it not be much better and logical to compare the "Commonalities and Similarities betwean Islam and Christianity" instead of one religion with another Ideology??? Yes, I call it like some kind of Ideology, like that...

Shogird, some minutes ago I read your post where you're so angry that this thread was closed, right?

but...never mind that there are some similarities betwean Islam and that way of life which is called mormonism.
Never mind if you compare God's last Messanger (saas) with that peron Smith...
it's stated here: Muhammad and Smith were both told that no true religion existed on the earth at that time...oops this is one of those sentences that contradicts the last Religion of Allah.
Could that be a comparision??? Does it mean that Islam is not a true Religion or what???(May Allah forgive me)

Or this one: Muhammad and Smith were both instructed to restore the long lost faith of the one true religion!

What's to be restored in the last religion of Allah??? His Holy Quran or what?(Forgive me Allah for such unacceptible questions!!!)
Sorry but was this Smith supposed to be some kind of Messias, or Mahdi or what???

There are so many contradictions and not similarities.

Look, when you get some negative posts on this ideology and perhaps against Christianity itself, please don't get surprised ok.

If I were you I should have discussed the Moral of our religions which were revealed from the SAME AND ONE GOD(and namely from Allah) and would not listen to the opinions on such "time-wasting" threads...

Write something on Dialogue and not on opinions...

[Samimiy]

As you know Mormonism is fastest growing religion in US.
Actually, I didn't know this adn highly doubt this claim. I am sure I am not alone on this. I'd like to some evidence, please.

[Samimiy]

Ah, you know polygamy is also permissible in Mormonism?

Polygamy is NOT permissible in Mormonism. You can easily verify this. Originally it was, but the Mormon church outlawed it some years ago. There are, however, some mormons who still practice it, even though it is officially illegal by their church's rules.

In general, I don't see the point of comparing Islam and Mormonism. Anyone can make a similar list with regards to Christianity, Judasim, Bahaism, Buddhism, etc, etc.
So my question to Shogird is: Why exactly did you post this article here?

[Aziz]

Ten years earlier, as a boy fourteen years of age, Smith said that he went to a grove of trees to pray and ask God which Christian denomination he should join.

The reveleation came to Prophet Mohammed when he was 40.


Three years later, an angel named Moroni visited Joseph Smith and told him about a sacred record that existed in addition to the Bible.


The angel who came to Prophet Mohammed and all Prophet before is angel Gabriel (peace be upon him). There is no mension of angel Moroni in the Holy Books (Torah, Bible and Quran).


Muhammad and Smith were both visited by an angel. Smith was visited by Moroni and Muhammad by Gabriel.


as mensioned above, there is no angel called Moroni.


Muhammad and Smith were both told that no true religion existed on the earth at that time.


there were true religions at the time of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) but their followers were barely countable. The Islam came as the last religion which the people of the previous religion should follow.


Muhammad and Smith both produced a book inspired by God, that they consider to be scripture given in addition to the Bible.


Prophet Mohammed DID not produce a book. The book was revealed to him.


Smith eventually translated the engravings by the gift and power of God, using ancient "seer stones" known as the Urim and Thummim. This translation was eventually published in 1830 as the Book of Mormon. It receives its name from the primary prophet who's writings are recorded in the book.


Muhammad and Smith were both uneducated. This is seen, in both cases, to support the belief that producing such a book was beyond their ability and that it must therefore be truly inspired.

Prophet Mohammed was not able to read or write, while it's obvious that Joseph was able to read and write.

Muhammad and Smith both taught that the original copy of their holy book was not in their possession. Muslims believe that the Koran is a copy of an original "tablet" which is in heaven. Mormons believe that after the Book of Mormon was translated, the Angel Moroni retrieved the gold plates and re-concealed them.

Joseph did possess the original copy, but he did not show it to the people. while the Quran which is written on (Al-Lawh Al-Mahfooz) remained in heaven, its text only was revealed to Mohammed.

[Pinkie]

Polygamy is NOT permissible in Mormonism. You can easily verify this. Originally it was, but the Mormon church outlawed it some years ago. There are, however, some mormons who still practice it, even though it is officially illegal by their church's rules.
Yes you are right:D. Polygamy was banned in the United States in 1890. Isolated communities in Utah still practice polygamy. Thank you Samimiy for verifying this for me:cool:.

And as for Shogird, I highly doubt Mormonism is the fastest growing religion in the United States. I haven't met anyone who became a Mormon. I've met more than a handful of people who have embraced Islam, Alhamdulillah.

[ДЖИГИТ]

Inna ddina inda llahi Al Islam!

Ba'zi odamlar shunchalik qabih va o'jar bo'lar ekanki, Allohning mo'jizalari hatto ilm-fan, mantiq va idroq bilan tasdiqlanib kelsa, o'zini ko'rmaslikka oladi, haqiqatni arzimagan pulga sotar ekan, yana g'ururlanishini etmaysizmi, yuzlari, qalblari "bez" bolib ketganidan Allohning so'ziga egilmaydi. Allohni qo'yib, rasm, butga, odamlarga sig'inadigan insonlar Hudoning nazarida HECH bir qiymatga ega emas, qanchalik boy badavlat, qanchalik aqlli-o'qimishli bo'lmasin, agar Allohning bu dunyoda sinovi bo'lmaganida edi, Alloh bunday insonlarni er yuzida bir soniya ham tirik qoldirmas edi, lekin Alloh Taolo shunday deydi: "Bu dunyoda bizning ne'matlarimiz ana ulardan ham (kofirlardan), mana bulardan (mo'minlardan) ham to'silmaydi", ya'ni bu dunyo sinovdir, shunig uchun ham hech kimdan to'silmas ne'matlar. Allohni (barcha payg'ambarlar ham shu so'zni ishlatishgan: Iloh, Eloh, Eliya, Yahwa, El+Yah(wa)= Eloh, Allah) va uning dinini inkor etuvchilar, boshqa ojiz insonlarnig "falsafalarini" tenglashtirgan insonlarni yoki shunchalik tuban bo'lib, yoki shunchalik adashib ketganidan dalolat beradi. Hudoga qarshi chiqqanlar tut darahtnini silkitganda tut to'kilgandek to'kiladi, bu barcha nayranglari vaqtincha, adashganlar esa aql yuritib, hayotlarini Allohga qarshi yurishini to'htatmasa ohiri VOOOOYYYY! Tushunmaganlar bo'lsa yozinglar, tushuntirib berarmiz!

[Samimiy]

Shogird janoblari kurinmaydilarmi? :) Temani ochib quyib, savol berilsa savolga javob bermaydilar? :)

[ДЖИГИТ]

Downloadable movies.

Allah poznayotsya razumom (Allah is known through wisdom):
http://www.harunyahya.com/russian/m_video_detail.php?api_id=2179

Allah ukazivaet put' nauke (Allah directs the way to science):

http://www.harunyahya.com/russian/m_video_detail.php?api_id=2180

Moral' Korana (Morale of Koran):

http://www.harunyahya.com/russian/m_video_detail.php?api_id=2848

Isus vernyotsya (Jesus (peace be upon him) will return):
http://www.harunyahya.com/russian/m_video_detail.php?api_id=2210

Chudesa Korana (miracles of Koran):
http://www.harunyahya.com/russian/m_video_detail.php?api_id=1663

[HAKIKAT]

Shogird janoblari kurinmaydilarmi? :) Temani ochib quyib, savol berilsa savolga javob bermaydilar? :)
How could this kind of person (Shogird) be able to answer all those questions at all, whereas this thread is not related with his faith???

He(Shogird) knows and uses his "special" system like putting some "provocative statements" in the religion of the Great Allah and then claiming like: "This is not any islamic forum and everyone has the Freedom of Speech"

Sometimes I've some real doubts on his strange behaviour, like the way he is messaging or by his saying that he respects Islam whereas his religion ignores Islam by all means...what are his intentions? Does he believe to attrackt moslems to his faith whereby he hasn't got yet that he's just LOST???

As a matter of fact, he and all his threads deserve to be just ignored like any other pro-christian missionary posts.

[Sayyoh]

As a matter of fact, he and all his threads deserve to be just ignored like any other pro-christian missionary posts.
can we plz start doing this?! :D

:salam:

[Ulugbek_99]

Shogird,

Before I will get to the content of my post, I would like to ask you to look inside your heart and evaluate your thoughts once again before you say or post something. Don't you know that you are being "passive agressive", taking every chance to throw something to Islam, something wrapped with the uncleanness in your heart. Don't you feel ashamed that you are trying to cover your agressiveness and attacks with your "love they neighbor as thyself" technique. I belive Isa SAW said "love", not "pretend to love". Don't you fell that your "dissonance" is eating you alive inside. Come on man, stop pretending, is tensity in your heart not wearing you out? I think you can still get rid of dissonance by letting Peace come to your heart. You might be relived for a short time after you try to make Islam look like what it is not. Only Peace can relieve you, you don't want to spend rest of your life with that tense inside you, do you? Don't you think that you deserve the Truth and be in Peace? Imagine rest of your life without peace and truth in the heart, you are trying to fight Islam in vain. Imagine going further and further away from Allah every single time you try to feed your dissonance by attacking (passively) Islam. It is not healthy either bro. Do you know that your cortisol level will go up whenever you are motivated by dissonance. Cortiol distrupts the homeostasis. I mean, it is miracle of Allah that the way cortisol plays its role in our body, in case of emergency and need for energy boost, but too much of it constantly will wear you out. Your food doesn't taste as good, you can't sleep as good and there is increased chance of heart attack associated with the increased levels of cortisol. You don't have to say anything, just look inside of you, your motivations, who do you see? Is that real you? Don't you think you have enough strength to fight back that caprice. Just evaluate your mind and soul once again, abjectively, free from all biasis and prejudices. Do it for yourself, don't be afraid. May God grants you the strength to do it.

Well, lets get back to business. You might be thinking by now that I am totally wrong about you. I maybe, I am a human being. If I was wrong about your dissonance and cause of your increased level of cortisol, then why didn't you give clearer view of Mormonism. It is unwise to even try to compare Mormonism with Islam. Bad news for you: unlucky you that I happen to know not less than you about Mormonism (Majority of people that I have told about Islam and debated on "Isa SAW is prophet and servant of Allah vs Isa is god (Subhanallah). Here is what you hid and what Allah made it happen that what you hid in your mind became known:

Mormons' (official name: latter day saints) modesty is not to be compared to Islam, whereas Islam requires ideal modesty and mormon girls can wear longer shorts while still revealing their legs.

Rasululloh SAW was seal on prophets and received the complete, final scriptures from Allah through the angel Gabriel. Mormons believe that prophethood continues and they recognize their leader as their prophet. If current prophet dies then the next person in the rank becomes prophet. Not anything to wonder, when people loose the concept and essence of One God, how do you expect them to understand the concept ot prophethood.

Qur'an is the word of Allah that is directed to all human beings. Mormonism's new scriptures are merely stories and accounts journalized by human beings.

In Islam, everyone is equal, regardless of their race, color, or ethnicity. Everyone is in one brotherhood. Because mormonism doctrine were organized and written down during the time when African Americans were persecuted and had very little rights and values, they taught that blacks and dark skinned people could not hold priesthood. The reason is that they were group of people once were white and they didn't listen to God cursed them and that curse darkened them. That's how they became black or mexican or any group of dark skinned people. Senseless? (Allah tells us that He created human beings and spead them out into many nations so we can come together and come know each other) So, then in 60 things began to change and African Americans started enjoying their rights to be treated equal. Mormon church then re-made some of their doctrines saying that now God took away that commandment about prohibiting dark skinned from holding priesthood. (pretty adaptable doctrines, if you will)

Muslims are servants of Allah, and vincegerents of earth. Mormons ultimate goal is to become a god. Subhanallah, Subhanallah, Subhanallah!

Dear brothers and sisters, now you know what Shogird hid or forgot or lets say didn't know. Shogird asked for opinions, not debate and we all know that we need to have enough information to formulate an opinion on. My opinion is that nothing will stand a chance to be compared to Islam.

May Allah keep you on straight path.

No offense Shogird, I am just making it fair. Don't you think so?

[Shogird]

Actually, I didn't know this adn highly doubt this claim. I am sure I am not alone on this. I'd like to some evidence, please.

You are not alone in your doubts. Actually there are different opinions about their growth rate. If you take their 19 century origins and current size and position this religious tradition is very successful. Some religious scholars and even mainstream media say that Mormons are one of the fastest growing religion. In other hand there are others who doubt these claims.

Here are some points:

LDS growth rate:
Pro:http://www.lds4u.com/growth2/Index.htm
Con: http://www.cumorah.com/trends.doc

[Shogird]

I agree with Nostalgique that concept of polygamy in mormonism and Islam is different (esepcially when it comes to rights of women. Read Surah An-Nisa). What I love most about Islam, is the rights it gives to women and orphan children most especially:). Let's just read an ayah from An-Nisa:

"If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, then marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; But ifyou fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them), then marry one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."--4:4

Some have this misconception that Muslim men marry more than one woman because they are sexual perverts (Astaghfiruallah). Is it not permissible to marry a woman who is a widow and in need of financial assistance and a roof over her head? A captive whom his right hands posses (a very lawful way and beneficial too). It doesn't say every Muslim man must have four wives. If he can't act justly with all four of his wives then it is better if he only marries one in order to give her complete fair treatment.

Examine the leaders of religious movements. If they practice polygamy than they have to justify their practices and authorize them for their followers.


I am not sure of the Mormon perspective of polygamy (if anyone has any information, can you please send it to me?). All I know is that I would see them on the news because they were famous for having more than one wife on American soil. I don't agree with Mormons in general but I will ask you Shogird, since you are a Christian. Why was polygamy banned in Christianity?

The word 'Christianity' is very broad term. Mormons and Moonies consider themselves as Christians although their religion and doctrine contradict fundamental Biblical principles. So here I will look at Biblical principles. God never ordained polygamy in first place. God created one man and one woman. But as we see Biblical history we can see polygamy was practised by great people such as David, Solomon and others. There were different views in Judaism about polygamy and same thing in Christiniaty. The coming of Jesus according to Bible is the beginning of new time. It is the culmination of human history: God entered the humanity. As you read the Bible Jesus interpreted the law in depth. Who knows the best about the law, law maker or law keeper? Jesus emphasised the sacredness of marriage:
Matthew 19:5-6, TLB.
"And that a man will leave his father and mother, and be forever united to his wife. The two shall become one - no longer two, but one in matrimony! And no man may divorce what God has joined together".

Apostles and Early Church also emphasized the marriage between one man and one woman. Catholic church strictly prohibited the practice of polygamy.The Catholic Church (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=3cafrtrh9g17j?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Catholic&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc06a) clearly condemns polygamy; the Catechism of the Catholic Church (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=3cafrtrh9g17j?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Catechism+of+the+Catholic+Church&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc06a) lists it in paragraph 2387 under the head "Other offenses against the dignity of marriage" and states that it "is not in accord with the moral law." Also in paragraph 1645 under the head "The Goods and Requirements of Conjugal Love" states "The unity of marriage, distinctly recognized by our Lord, is made clear in the equal personal dignity which must be accorded to man and wife in mutual and unreserved affection. Polygamy is contrary to conjugal love which is undivided and exclusive."


Here you can find materials about polygamy:

External links


General

Pro-Polygamy.com (http://www.pro-polygamy.com/) - Provides op-eds and press releases on polygamy-related current events for the secular mass media
Anti-Polygamy.org (http://www.anti-polygamy.org/) - An pro-polygamy website that analyzes anti-polygamy rhetoric and arguments.
Anti-Polygamy.com (http://www.anti-polygamy.com/) - A discussion forum for both sides of the anti-polygamy debate.Christian polygamy

Christian Polygamy Info (http://www.christianpolygamy.info/) - Presents definitions and the history (http://www.christianpolygamy.info/history/) of the new, modern social movement (http://www.christianpolygamy.info/movement/) which has no connection to Mormon polygamy. (http://www.christianpolygamy.info/christian-polygamy-is-not-mormon-polygamy/)
TruthBearer.org -- Organization for Christian polygamy (http://www.truthbearer.org/) Provides activists with teachings, resources, support, and media interviews (http://www.truthbearer.org/media/)
Biblical Polygamy (http://www.biblicalpolygamy.com/) - Presents biblical exegesis of arguments to support polygamy and lists out all the polygamists in the Bible (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=3cafrtrh9g17j?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Bible&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc06a)
A defence of Christian polygamy (http://www.samchapman.f2s.com/polygamy.htm) - discusses and answers objections many Christians have to polygamy with cited evidence in the Bible (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=3cafrtrh9g17j?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Bible&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc06a)
Another defense of Christian polygamy (http://www.polygamy.net/)Mormon polygamy

MormonPolygamy.com (http://www.mormonpolygamy.com/) - A group of Mormon women in Utah called "Principle Voices of Polygamy" who advocate and defend consensual, adult Mormon polygamy
Hope for the Child Brides (http://www.childbrides.org/) - non-profit organization in St. George, Utah, that offers assistance to any victims of abuse who live in specific Mormon polygamous communities where underage marriage occurs
Tapestry Against Polygamy (http://www.polygamy.org/) A group of ex-fundamentalist Mormon polygamous wives in Salt Lake City, Utah, who offer insight and assistance for anyone seeking to leave specific Mormon polygamous communities
Mormon Polygamy (http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/essays/mormonpolygamy.htm) - A study of the four major periods of Mormon PolygamyMuslim polygamy

When is polygamy allowed in Islam? (http://www.answering-christianity.com/polygamy.htm) - from a Muslim (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=3cafrtrh9g17j?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Muslim&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc06a) point of viewJewish polygamy

Jewish Polygamy (http://polygamy.com/Jewish/index.htm)This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors (see full disclaimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer))




I have heard of Rev. Sun Myung Moon before. I don't know your stance on him. He is a complete nut job. "MOON WANTS YOU TO BOW DOWN TO HIM". Joseph Smith too.

Ya Allah:shock:
The case of Joseph Smith differs than San Moon. Unlike Moon Smith never made himself equal to Jesus Christ.

[Samimiy]

You are not alone in your doubts. Actually there are different opinions about their growth rate. If you take their 19 century origins and current size and position this religious tradition is very successful. Some religious scholars and even mainstream media say that Mormons are one of the fastest growing religion. In other hand there are others who doubt these claims.

Here are some points:

LDS growth rate:
Pro:http://www.lds4u.com/growth2/Index.htm
Con: http://www.cumorah.com/trends.doc

OK, this is exactly what I had expected. Neither of your sources says Mormonism/Church of LDS is the fastest-growing in the U.S. Obviously, you haven't read them carefully.

First, here is a part of the conclusion of the article which is supposed to provide evidence about LDS being the fastest-growing in the U.S. (Pro):

Many other religions are growing faster than Mormonism, and it is unclear how Mormonism would have a competitive advantage over those religions.
Despite increasing the member base and missionary force by 50% over the last decade, the church has been unsuccessful at increasing the number of baptisms by even 1%.


Looking forward the question is will the growth rate continue to go down, bottom out, or rebound? The above factors lead me to believe that it will continue to go down, but at slower rates, reaching about 30 million members by the year 2080.

From the other article (Con):


U.S. Growth


The 1990-2000 Glenmary study (http://www.adn.com/24hour/nation/story/539850p-4268556c.html)6 reports that theLDS Church U.S. growth rate ranks twenty-third among the 149 participating denominations in overall but first among denominations with over one million adherents. The annual U.S. LDS growth rate of 1.9% edges out the annual world population growth rate by 0.2-0.4%. The Glenmary study cautions that the main findings are based solely upon the raw number of adherents "claimed by religious bodies,"7 and activity and retention rates for Latter-day Saints were not examined.

[Shogird]

OK, this is exactly what I had expected. Neither of your sources says Mormonism/Church of LDS is the fastest-growing in the U.S. Obviously, you haven't read them carefully.

Actually I gave two links with same views.

Here are other points: http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us:8080/tserve/nineteen/nkeyinfo/nmormon.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/mormon/intro.shtml

It is one of the world's fastest-growing religions - some people predict membership could reach 265 million by 2080.

[Shogird]

Polygamy is NOT permissible in Mormonism. You can easily verify this. Originally it was, but the Mormon church outlawed it some years ago. There are, however, some mormons who still practice it, even though it is officially illegal by their church's rules.

In general, I don't see the point of comparing Islam and Mormonism. Anyone can make a similar list with regards to Christianity, Judasim, Bahaism, Buddhism, etc, etc.
So my question to Shogird is: Why exactly did you post this article here?
Even though LDS officially outlawed the polygamy there are other Mormon groups who still practice this.http://www.americanreligion.org/cultwtch/polygamy.html

There are still groups lobbying to legalize the polygamy
But polygamists are now lobbying for their right to practice plural marriage as part of their First Amendment rights.
And the Coalition for Religious Freedom and Tolerance went to the state Capitol in January 2002 to demand a constitutional amendment that would legalise polygamy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/mormon/features/polygamy.shtml

[Samimiy]

Actually I gave two links with same views.

Here are other points: http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us:8080/tserve/nineteen/nkeyinfo/nmormon.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/mormon/intro.shtml

Again, no hard evidence, no growth statistics. If you say LDS is the fastest growing religion, you should be able to support it with numbers, like "Church membership has grown by 50% over the last 10 years". Otherwise, it's just empty words, as in your case.
I checked your last 2 sources as well.
"One of the fastest growing religions" is not the same as "the fastest growing religion". It could be 20th-fastest growing and still be considered one of the fastest growing.

[Samimiy]

Even though LDS officially outlawed the polygamy there are other Mormon groups who still practice this.http://www.americanreligion.org/cultwtch/polygamy.html

There are still groups lobbying to legalize the polygamy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/mormon/features/polygamy.shtml

Your post adds nothing significant to what I wrote earlier.
And you still haven't answered my question: Why did you start this thread, exactly (other than to irritate people, of course)?

[Shogird]

In general, I don't see the point of comparing Islam and Mormonism. Anyone can make a similar list with regards to Christianity, Judasim, Bahaism, Buddhism, etc, etc.
So my question to Shogird is: Why exactly did you post this article here?

I did not post this topic to discuss the polygamy, that's for sure.
Why did I post this topic ?
I post this to understand the religious phenomenon called "revelation". Is there norm to authenticate the religious revelations or claims for absolute truth?
Joseph Smith claimed that he was divinely ordained to restore the true religion of God. It was interesting to me how Muslims viewed this religious tradition, because your tradition orginated in same way, one man claimed to have divine endownment. How do we (mortal men) know who is who and who is truthful?

[Shogird]

Again, no hard evidence, no growth statistics. If you say LDS is the fastest growing religion, you should be able to support it with numbers, like "Church membership has grown by 50% over the last 10 years". Otherwise, it's just empty words, as in your case.
I checked your last 2 sources as well.
"One of the fastest growing religions" is not the same as "the fastest growing religion". It could be 20th-fastest growing and still be considered one of the fastest growing.

It was typo. Appologize for my poor English but I meant one of the fastest growing religion in US. See in my previous note I missed the article "the".

[Samimiy]

Ah, now you're talking!

So, let's see...
If we're gonna talk about revelation, it seems to me we should be comparing Islam and Christianity, not Mormonism. Don't you think?
Would you like to briefly explain how today's Bible came to be? In other words, what is the evolution (sorry if this word offends you) of the Bible? Please, use your own words, I can find a link to some scholar's 500-page essay without your help.

[Shogird]

Ah, now you're talking!

So, let's see...
If we're gonna talk about revelation, it seems to me we should be comparing Islam and Christianity, not Mormonism. Don't you think?
Would you like to briefly explain how today's Bible came to be? In other words, what is the evolution (sorry if this word offends you) of the Bible? Please, use your own words, I can find a link to some scholar's 500-page essay without your help.
You can't compare Joseph Smith/Mormonism with Christianity. Smith never claimed to be equal or mediator between man and God. Muhammad did claimed the Messianic role. "I confess that there is no god but 'Allah' and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah" ('la ilaha illa allah; Muhammedon rasul Allah).

Here is the Message of the Bible:

Mat 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."


Acts 4:12

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Romans 9:5
...of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

[Shogird]

Would you like to briefly explain how today's Bible came to be? In other words, what is the evolution (sorry if this word offends you) of the Bible? Please, use your own words, I can find a link to some scholar's 500-page essay without your help.
There are plenty materials about the origin of the Bible .
The Bible is completely diffferent book than Koran. I already answered to this question in my previous posts. Bible came to us gradually. Stories about first man, flood and Abraham were preserved in oral tradition of God's people. Later Moses put this in writing. Moses recorded his encounters with God and God's commandments. God continually communicated with his people through kings, priests and prophets. King David and other prophets prophesied about coming King and Messiah. They did not fully understand the significance of that event but they knew this supposed to be the culmination of human history where God visits His people and liberates them from their enemies. Genesis 49:10
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.

Luke 1: 32 "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

New Testament is also unique book. Four gospels describes the life and ministry of Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus himself was the message of God, embodiment of the Word of God, glory of God. For three years Jesus prepared his disciples for contnuation of his ministry. After his death and resseruction His disciples received Spirit of God, Holy Spirit for worldwide ministry. Their message was confirmed with signs and wonders. You can read this in the book of Acts. New Testament also contains the letters of Peter, Paul, John, James and Judah. Jesus in His glory appears to John and gives him message about end times. This work is called the book of Revalation.

[Samimiy]

You can't compare Joseph Smith/Mormonism with Christianity. Smith never claimed to be equal or mediator between man and God. Muhammad did claimed the Messianic role.

Here is the Message of the Bible:

Actually I never attempted comparing Christianity with Mormonism. I proposed compared the issue of revelation in Islam and Christianity.

In general, though, of course I could compare Mormonism with Christianity, if I wanted. Anything can be compared with anything.

And you need to be careful with your choice of words. Prophet Muhammad never claimed the Messianic role. Do you even know the meaning of the word Messianic? If you have difficulty with English, feel free to use Uzbek, I prefer Uzbek, too.

Your quotes from the Bible are completely irrelevant to my question.
My question was about the history of the Bible. How did it come to its present form? What language was the 'original' Bible? Is there such a thing as the original Bible? How was is written? Was is given to Jesus by God/angel, etc? Is there one version of the Bible or more?

[ДЖИГИТ]

Modern Christian Trinity is a BIG LIE!!! Jesus himself will testify against christians in the Judgement Day, Bible was holy, fisrt Bible, but original Bible disappeared, only versions whch greatly differ from each other exist in many languages, none of the Bible versions resembles each other, however it was holy at the beginning, used to be holy, but the pen of the rewriters made it into a lie. Most events like crucifiction, last supper, and other events differ even in those 4 gospels, how such hyporates can claim anything based on the changed by man book??? Only hypocrates and those who sell the God's TRUTH for cheap can do that. At the same time they try to say bad words about God's prophet Muhammad s.a.w.? No, these KAFIRS (auzubillahi min zalik) will never bow to the truth unless God wants it! Let them stay on their way, God is the best of Judges!

[JOUBERAR]

Modern Christian Trinity is a BIG LIE!!! Jesus himself will testify against christians in the Judgement Day, Bible was holy, fisrt Bible, but original Bible disappeared, only versions whch greatly differ from each other exist in many languages, none of the Bible versions resembles each other, however it was holy at the beginning, used to be holy, but the pen of the rewriters made it into a lie. Most events like crucifiction, last supper, and other events differ even in those 4 gospels, how such hyporates can claim anything based on the changed by man book??? Only hypocrates and those who sell the God's TRUTH for cheap can do that. At the same time they try to say bad words about God's prophet Muhammad s.a.w.? No, these KAFIRS (auzubillahi min zalik) will never bow to the truth unless God wants it! Let them stay on their way, God is the best of Judges!

Muslims see all other religions as a lie but there religion is the biggest lie on earth because they think they know better but do not know better they can only criticise. GO AND DO MORE RESEARCH ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF THE QURAN.WHAT IS IN THE KABAA ONLY A PEACE OF SHOOTING STAR AND MUSLIMS MAKE SUCH A FUSS ABOUT IT VERY HOLY.

[HAKIKAT]

Muslims see all other religions as a lie but there religion is the biggest lie on earth because they think they know better but do not know better they can only criticise. GO AND DO MORE RESEARCH ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF THE QURAN.WHAT IS IN THE KABAA ONLY A PEACE OF SHOOTING STAR AND MUSLIMS MAKE SUCH A FUSS ABOUT IT VERY HOLY.

Hey Shogird,

are you APOSTOLIC?