Holocaust Denier Gets Three Years:Where is freedom of expression? Double standards?

[Ulug'bek]

By VERONIKA OLEKSYN, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty Monday to denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years in prison, even after conceding he wrongly said there were no Nazi gas chambers at the Auschwitz concentration camp.
...
Irving, 67, has been in custody since his November arrest on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews. He has contended that most of those who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution.
...
Irving appeared shocked as the sentence was read.
...
Irving's trial came amid new — and fierce — debate over freedom of expression in Europe, where the printing and reprinting of unflattering caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad has triggered deadly protests worldwide.

Read more at the source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060220/ap_on_re_eu/austria_holocaust_denial;_ylt=Asi_JQT5OgfkRhjUAx3_ OEqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Ulug'bek:
Where is freedom of expression Europeans? Double standards again?
If you allow to have this type of limits in freedom of expression about an historical event, why can't you have a limit outlawing insulting religiously sacred personalities of the world religions publicly?! When do you realise that double standards are counter-productive??

For the list of european countries, where public denial of the Holocaust is a criminal offence see the post below:

http://www.forum.uz/showpost.php?p=394092&postcount=12

[Administrator]

yes indeed :lol: whre is the freedom of speech?!!! was not that what they all were talking about ? it reminds me an anekdot when an american says to uzbek we have a democracy coz i can critisize our prezident Bush at anywhere in america and nothing will hapen with me and uzbek said then we also have adeomocracy coz i can also critisize your prezidetn Bush an anywehre in uzbeksitan and nothing will hapen with me , europe reminds me this "uzbek" personality from the anekdot.

[Guardian]

What is wrong with you, people? :evil: How can you say it is freedom of speech? He is an evil-right-wing-nutcase-nazi-scumbag-racist & deserves to go to the jail, the end of story.

[Ulug'bek]

What is wrong with you, people? :evil: How can you say it is freedom of speech? He is an evil-right-wing-nutcase-nazi-scumbag-racist & deserves to go to the jail, the end of story.

Nothing is wrong with us :) , it seems that you didn't get the point...

The point is, if you Europeans, have allready limits in freedom of expression, for such and such (some of wich less important than insulting 1 billion muslims publicly, as if someone denies Holocaust based on whatever, rightly or wrongly) don't shout : ''Freedom of expression Freedom of expression!'' when it comes to picting Muhammad SWT the prophet of more than 1 billion Muslims as terrorist, use your brain instead, if you want to teach Muslims to live in peace and harmony with you on this planet!

That is all!
:)

[Guardian]

Me as European? Huh! I didn't get the point you are intensely trying to preach.

My man, firstly do not tell I am a European and your are "they" to me, OK? Neither I am a European, nor I have intention to look down on others. You are simply being double standard. Once, if you think insulting a group of people should be prohibited, why again you are not happy with this case? (Hope you know my standpoint on cartoons, it is on that thread)

When it comes to your tip of using brain, apply it to yourself too. Have a good day, stop the propaganda crap.

[Ulug'bek]

Me as European? Huh! I didn't get the point you are intensely trying to preach.

My man, firstly do not tell I am a European and your are "they" to me, OK? Neither I am a European, nor I have intention to look down on others. You are simply being double standard. Once, if you think insulting a group of people should be prohibited, why again you are not happy with this case? (Hope you know my standpoint on cartoons, it is on that thread)

When it comes to your tip of using brain, apply it to yourself too. Have a good day, stop the propaganda crap.

What is happening here people, too much misunderstandings ?

Guardian, the post is directed to europeans and not you att all!

I just explained how it was said to ''europeans'' in the first post, as if i was talking to them (in deed, i did that a few days ago in a siminar and it was accepted quite well by the participants most of whom were europeans)

Why to post it here then, you may ask, it is just to think about and discuss it...

Am I clear now?

Sorry for misexplanation I have had (if I had any), No offence was intended att all.

[melo]

this is a law in Austria where most of the crap happened. It seems to be a specific law about the holocasut. I can understand why they would have a law like that. It is recent history- and Adolf Hitler was born there.

I would also point out this is Austria- not all European countries are the same.

[kipchak]

do you people think than Holocast victims were the only victims in WW2?
Howcome holocaust issue was not popular in ex-USSR?
are there any proof to HOlocaust victims besides those which have been criticized and proven to be a BIG LIE by people like Irwing?
HOwcome there is not Holocaust for USSR people (more than 25 million vs 4 jewish)

[ДЖИГИТ]

Kakoy freedom of speech? Freedom of speech sozdan dlya prostogo naseleniya, dlya otvoda glaz, na samom je dele, ves' Zapad nastol'ko tsinichen, chto perehodit vse granitsi. Neudivitel'no, chto Bog proklyal evreev, inache bi oni ne pitalis' vozvisit' sebya pered drugimi narodami svoim holokostom, kak eto ponyat', nikakie drugie narodi ne imyut pretenzii k tomu, chto ih predki pogibli vo vtoroy mirovoy, voyna est' voyna, a evrei tak uj i orut vo vsyo gorlo, mol evreev pogiblo 6 millionov, hotya drygie narodi namnogo bol'she zaslujivayut prava na holokost s uchotom bol'shego chisla pogibshih, sravnite sami, v bivshem SSSR pogiblo bolee 20 millionov lyudey, v to vremya kak jidov bilo 6 millionov, zdes' ne doljno bit' prevoshodstva odnogo naroda nad drugim, odnako jidi daje uzakonili holkost.

Holokost Contoversy: http://www.rense.com/Datapages/holodat.htm

[melo]

This is an easy one- the USSR was not the bastion of information and freedom- they had similar problems with jews. That is why they all went to ISrael when they had the chance. That is why the USSR never spoke about the holocaust either. Also, nobody has ever pretended that 25 million people didn't die in the USSR.

do you people think than Holocast victims were the only victims in WW2?
Howcome holocaust issue was not popular in ex-USSR?
are there any proof to HOlocaust victims besides those which have been criticized and proven to be a BIG LIE by people like Irwing?
HOwcome there is not Holocaust for USSR people (more than 25 million vs 4 jewish)

[UzLand]

If I said that I disagreed with the historical fact that the Soviet troops mounted a flag on top of the Reihstag, would the Austrians jail me too?:)

[Ulug'bek]

this is a law in Austria where most of the crap happened. It seems to be a specific law about the holocasut. I can understand why they would have a law like that. It is recent history- and Adolf Hitler was born there.

I would also point out this is Austria- not all European countries are the same.

below are the european countries punish this denial by law:

Public denial of the Holocaust is a criminal offence in Austria (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/austria), Belgium (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/belgium) , Czech Republic (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/czech_republic) , France (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/france) , Germany (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/germany) , ....., Lithuania (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/lithuania) , Poland (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/poland) , Slovakia (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/slovakia) and Switzerland (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/switzerland) and is punishable by fines and jail sentences.


source: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/holocaust_denial

Holocaust denial is illegal in France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) (Loi Gayssot (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Loi_Gayssot&action=edit)), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium) (Belgian Negationism Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Negationism_Law)), Switzerland (article 261bis of the Penal Code), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) and several other West European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) countries. The Council of Europe's 2003 Additional Protocol to the Convention on cybercrime, concerning the criminalisation of acts of a racist and xenophobic nature committed through computer systems (http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/189.htm) includes an article 6 titled Denial, gross minimisation, approval or justification of genocide or crimes against humanity.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Holocaust_denial_examined

COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL :
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland

source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4733820.stm

Tony Blair’s government considered introducing a “Holocaust denial” statute in Britain, but eventually rejected the idea. Italy, Ireland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden are among the other European countries that have declined to enact such laws.

source:http://www.ihr.org/news/112705HoloDenial.html

[melo]

Very interesting. I think denying the holocaust existed is stupid- but I am surprised so many countries have laws against it. Europe isn't perfect- I knew that before.

[Administrator]

На Атлае возбуждено уголовное дело в связи с обсуждением "карикатурного скандала" на местном сайте......!!!
http://www.newsru.com/russia/21feb2006/echo.html
vot eto da!!!

[Delf]

Denying Holocaust is stupid, but there should not be a law punishing for that. You don't want too much of government involvement in matters of history.

Hate speech is a separate issue and should be addressed accordingly. If holocaust denial is used in the context of hate speech, then it should be punishable, just like prophet cartoons. But I don't think both of these cases constitute hate speech. Maybe stupid speech, but not hate speech.


Delf.

[bacha]

Suppose denying Holocaust is as hurting as denying the Massacre of Andijan. If in future, when, inshallah, we will have more democratic government, someone comes and says he does not believe that the Massacre in Andijan happened, people will beat him up. Now think about a huge massacre, where millions of people died. How insulting and painful it will be to descendants of those people to deny that crime!

As for Austrian law that can sentence someone to years of imprisonment for denying the Holocaust, I think it exists partly in order to accept their crime, and partly to prevent such crimes in the future.

[RockerDen]

By VERONIKA OLEKSYN, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty Monday to denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years in prison, even after conceding he wrongly said there were no Nazi gas chambers at the Auschwitz concentration camp.
...
Irving, 67, has been in custody since his November arrest on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews. He has contended that most of those who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution.
...
Irving appeared shocked as the sentence was read.
...
Irving's trial came amid new — and fierce — debate over freedom of expression in Europe, where the printing and reprinting of unflattering caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad has triggered deadly protests worldwide.

Read more at the source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060220/ap_on_re_eu/austria_holocaust_denial;_ylt=Asi_JQT5OgfkRhjUAx3_ OEqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Ulug'bek:
Where is freedom of expression Europeans? Double standards again?
If you allow to have this type of limits in freedom of expression about an historical event, why can't you have a limit outlawing insulting religiously sacred personalities of the world religions publicly?! When do you realise that double standards are counter-productive??

Freedom of speech? Let me say something about this :

As you know, there is a sentence in many constitutions of the world that says : "The freedom of speech is legal, but it should not be against any one in the world or must not to hurt any one". The denying of Holocaust hurts Jews.

[PainKiller]

Only retards or nazy antisemits can deny holocaust.
So, if the dude is retarded, he should go to the mental hospital, and get intense care of his problem;
If he is not retarded, than jail is a right place for him.

[Administrator]

bacha reckerdan painkiller i am not sure if u had understood meaning of this topic or not?

here were are comparing freeedom of speech reagarding holocust and stupid cartoons of mohammed
why it is allowed in europe to press such stupid cartoons(which also hurts everymoslem) for the name of democracy but denying of holocust is punished?
that was the quetion of this topic...
laws shuold be applied for everything if some is punished for denig of holocost then he/she must be punished too for drawing of stupid cartoons about our prophet.

[Administrator]

Denying Holocaust is stupid, but there should not be a law punishing for that. You don't want too much of government involvement in matters of history.

Hate speech is a separate issue and should be addressed accordingly. If holocaust denial is used in the context of hate speech, then it should be punishable, just like prophet cartoons. But I don't think both of these cases constitute hate speech. Maybe stupid speech, but not hate speech.


Delf.
but you had claimed bofore that pressing stupid cartoons of prophet was freedom of speech and yoo spupported european newspapers.

[Delf]

I did not support EU newspapers. I support their right to publish without government intervention. I beleive those cartoons stupid and inflamatory to certain extend. Same goes to Holocaust denying. Government should not have right to intervene here.

There should be strick limits on where government can intervene. Otherwise you quickly end up with a freedom of press like in Uzbekistan.

Hate speech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech) is one of the cases. But we need to define what is hate speech. (e.x.: calling to kill people of certain group, like religion, ethncity, race etc).

That is why I created a thread earlier where we would discuss limits of free press. http://www.forum.uz/showthread.php?t=27640


Delf.


but you had claimed bofore that pressing stupid cartoons of prophet was freedom of speech and yoo spupported european newspapers.

[HAKIKAT]

do you people think than Holocast victims were the only victims in WW2?
Howcome holocaust issue was not popular in ex-USSR?
are there any proof to HOlocaust victims besides those which have been criticized and proven to be a BIG LIE by people like Irwing?
HOwcome there is not Holocaust for USSR people (more than 25 million vs 4 jewish)


Heading the list of the errors made by some who describe the Holocaust is the way they ignore the Nazis' other victims, apart from the Jews. The Nazis didn't restrict their campaign of genocide to Jews alone, but also included such ethnic groups as Gypsies, Poles and Slavs, the mentally and physically handicapped, and religious communities such as the Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses...

[Administrator]

holcust is really happened but am not sure about its numbers .

[The Reaper]

He is a college drop out nazi loving scumbag, who will do anything to get some attention. But jailing him for just expressing his opinion? Think not... Look at what they did to Salman Rushdie, and what the effect was. His book sales and popularity went through the roof. Rightly so, I might add. Anything is up for discussion, IMO, including and not limited to religion, and historical events. TR

[ДЖИГИТ]

Only retards or nazy antisemits can deny holocaust.
So, if the dude is retarded, he should go to the mental hospital, and get intense care of his problem;
If he is not retarded, than jail is a right place for him.

Slushay umnichka, nikto ne otritsaet, chto pogiblo mnojestvo lyudey, tol'ko vot ne nujno vsego lish' odnu natsiyu nazivat' v kachestve jertvi, mnogie drugie narodi imeyut takie je prava a vozmojno i bol'she prav chem evrei, endi o'zingcha retarded devossanmi birovlarni?:rolleyes: O'zizga qarab o'ling!

[HAKIKAT]

holcust is really happened but am not sure about its numbers .

Some of the books I've read on Holocaust don't say 6Mill. but 5/5 only.

[UzLand]

Slushay umnichka, nikto ne otritsaet, chto pogiblo mnojestvo lyudey, tol'ko vot ne nujno vsego lish' odnu natsiyu nazivat' v kachestve jertvi, mnogie drugie narodi imeyut takie je prava a vozmojno i bol'she prav chem evrei, endi o'zingcha retarded devossanmi birovlarni?:rolleyes: O'zizga qarab o'ling!

Одна лишь Блокада Ленинграда чего стоит! Это и есть настоящий Холокост. Ведь Гитлер на СССР напал не потому, что там жили евреи. Даже если б евреи там не жили, все равно напал бы. Если бы даже у евреев была своя страна тогда, не уверен, что Гитлер напал бы на нее сначала. Нужно признавать Холокост, но нельзя его ставить выше других зверств нацизма и относиться к его жертвам благосклонее. Ведь другие жертвы нацизма еще и боролись с врагом.

[UzLand]

Ничего против евреев не имею, но мне интересно спросить одного нашего форумчанина-еврея Milky Way, что он думает по поводу того, что десятки миллионов советских людей были сгноены в советских лагерях, во время репрессий, во время великого голода начала 30-х, во время депортаций, во время национальных вопросов и так далее правительством, во главе которого стояли люди исключительно еврейской национальности, хотя и называли себя русскими?

[melo]

holcust is really happened but am not sure about its numbers .

It is hard to get an exact number when the bodies are incinerated, hidden, or unrecognizable. What is the point in arguing numbers? Pointis- lots of jews were killed for no reason.

[Administrator]

but mostly russians were killed in ww2 and they are not trying to demend anything from the whole world like jews.

[Administrator]

во время национальных вопросов и так далее правительством, во главе которого стояли люди исключительно еврейской национальности, хотя и называли себя русскими?

da imenno mnogih stranah prinyato mneniya "ruskiye vseh repressirovali" no praviteli bili yevreyami.

[PainKiller]

десятки миллионов советских людей были сгноены в советских лагерях, во время репрессий, во время великого голода начала 30-х, во время депортаций, во время национальных вопросов и так далее правительством, во главе которого стояли люди исключительно еврейской национальности, хотя и называли себя русскими?Состав первого советского правительства был таков: председатель - В.И.Ульянов (Ленин), НКВД - А.И.Рыков, НК земледелия - В.П.Милютин, НК труда - А.Г.Шляпников, НК торгпром - В.П.Ногин, НК просвещения - А.В.Луначарский, НК финансов И.И.Скворцов (Степанов), НКИД - Л.Д.Бронштейн (Троцкий), НК юстиции - Г.И.Оппоков (Ломов), НК почты и телеграфа - Н.П.Авилов (Глебов), НК продовольствия - И.А.Теодорович, НК национальностей - И.В.Джугашвили (Сталин). Комитет военных и морских дел возглавил триумвират в составе В.А.Антонова-Овсеенко, Н.В.Крыленко и П.Е.Дыбенко
и кто же тут еврей? Скворцов точно еврей! Задом чую.;)

[spoon]

I think the Holoucast is over-rated.
It is pretty sad when freedom of expression can land you in jail in a DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY (Delf ?). Although he might be wrong by saying that there was no holocaust, but he shouldn't be imprisoned for it, he should be just slapped on the wrist and laughed at. Three years for personal opinions is the stupidest thing I've ever heard to be coming from a member state of European Union.

Doesn't Matter What You See
Or into it What You Read
You Can Do it Your Own Way
If It's Done Just How I Say

Independence Limited
Freedom of Choice
Choice Is Mad for You My Friend
Freedom of Speech
Speech Is Words That They Will Bend
Freedom with Their Exception

[UzLand]

Состав первого советского правительства был таков: председатель - В.И.Ульянов (Ленин), НКВД - А.И.Рыков, НК земледелия - В.П.Милютин, НК труда - А.Г.Шляпников, НК торгпром - В.П.Ногин, НК просвещения - А.В.Луначарский, НК финансов И.И.Скворцов (Степанов), НКИД - Л.Д.Бронштейн (Троцкий), НК юстиции - Г.И.Оппоков (Ломов), НК почты и телеграфа - Н.П.Авилов (Глебов), НК продовольствия - И.А.Теодорович, НК национальностей - И.В.Джугашвили (Сталин). Комитет военных и морских дел возглавил триумвират в составе В.А.Антонова-Овсеенко, Н.В.Крыленко и П.Е.Дыбенко
и кто же тут еврей? Скворцов точно еврей! Задом чую.;)

Я разве имел ввиду 1 правительство или комиссаров просвещения и труда? Рыков, кстати, еврей, также как и Каганович, Зиновьев, Каменев, Троцкий и так далее. Вот кто рулил, а не Оппоков или Скворцов.

[kipchak]

браво UZLAND!!!

[Iqbol]

this is a law in Austria where most of the crap happened. It seems to be a specific law about the holocasut. I can understand why they would have a law like that. It is recent history- and Adolf Hitler was born there.

I would also point out this is Austria- not all European countries are the same.
Austria is not the only country with like legislation, there are other States as well who porhibits any discussion (revision) of Holocaust-related isssues. In France, there exists a crima named "negationnsim" and there are several writers who got condamned because of this law. The adoption of this kind of law was condamned by a lot of public figures, jews included. For many, you just can't fix the history with the help of law. There must always be an opening to revise the historical events on the light of newly discovered facts. And, it's up to historians, not to deputies, to write down the history.

[Iqbol]

Состав первого советского правительства был таков: председатель - В.И.Ульянов (Ленин), НКВД - А.И.Рыков, НК земледелия - В.П.Милютин, НК труда - А.Г.Шляпников, НК торгпром - В.П.Ногин, НК просвещения - А.В.Луначарский, НК финансов И.И.Скворцов (Степанов), НКИД - Л.Д.Бронштейн (Троцкий), НК юстиции - Г.И.Оппоков (Ломов), НК почты и телеграфа - Н.П.Авилов (Глебов), НК продовольствия - И.А.Теодорович, НК национальностей - И.В.Джугашвили (Сталин). Комитет военных и морских дел возглавил триумвират в составе В.А.Антонова-Овсеенко, Н.В.Крыленко и П.Е.Дыбенко
и кто же тут еврей? Скворцов точно еврей! Задом чую.;)
Painkiller, according to many historical sources, of about 400-500 hundred top government officials of early soviet period, more than 80% were of jewish origin.
"Bronshtein" doesn't tell you something...

[var]

к стати при Сталине в Союзе происходили вещи которые можно назвать геноцидом по отношению к евреям...например дело врачей вредителей. :D Так что сталин был в какой-то мере антисемитом...хотя и сам говорят того...:)

[spoon]

Экс-президент Хатами критикует Президента Ахмадинежада за отрицание Холокоста


Холокост – это "исторический факт", заявил бывший иранский президент Хатами, не напрямую обращаясь к своему преемнику Ахмадинежаду, который за последние месяцы неоднократно выступал с националистическими лозунгами. "Мы должны признать, что одним из преступлений, совершенных немецкими национал-социалистами, были массовые убийства невинных, среди которых, вне всякого сомнения, было много евреев".

Почему после многих месяцев молчания экс-президент вновь появился на политической сцене? Хатами возглавляет неправительственную организацию, которая развивает диалог между культурами и религиями. На данном этапе администрация Джорджа Буша занимается поиском неправительственных организаций, профсоюзов, студенческих групп и правозащитных организаций, которым будут переданы 20 миллионов долларов, иными словами, часть из тех 75 миллионов, на выделении которых настаивала американский госсекретарь Кондолиза Райс перед конгрессом США для финансирования иранской оппозиции.

(с) Инопресса / La Stampa

[UzLand]

Состав первого советского правительства был таков: председатель - В.И.Ульянов (Ленин), НКВД - А.И.Рыков, НК земледелия - В.П.Милютин, НК труда - А.Г.Шляпников, НК торгпром - В.П.Ногин, НК просвещения - А.В.Луначарский, НК финансов И.И.Скворцов (Степанов), НКИД - Л.Д.Бронштейн (Троцкий), НК юстиции - Г.И.Оппоков (Ломов), НК почты и телеграфа - Н.П.Авилов (Глебов), НК продовольствия - И.А.Теодорович, НК национальностей - И.В.Джугашвили (Сталин). Комитет военных и морских дел возглавил триумвират в составе В.А.Антонова-Овсеенко, Н.В.Крыленко и П.Е.Дыбенко
и кто же тут еврей? Скворцов точно еврей! Задом чую.;)

Кстати, только что откопал.

Царскую семью приказал расстрелять не Ленин, а Троцкий, он же Бронштейн. В это были вовлечены Свердлов, он же Янош Соломон Мовшевич, Белобородов, он же Янкель Вайсбарт, Яков Уровский, который лично стрелял в царя, Голощекин, он же Шая Исакович, Тинкус Вайнер и другие.

В 1920 году в Нью-Йорке была издана брошюра "Кто правит Россией" и в ней приведены списки руководящих органов на 1920 год. В этом списке есть состав Военного комиссариата, где всего 43 члена. Из них русских - 0, латышей - 8, немцев - 1 и евреев - 34...

Кстати настоящее имя Зиновьева - Апфельбаум, Каменева - Розенфельд, Мартова - Цедербаум.

[UzLand]

к стати при Сталине в Союзе происходили вещи которые можно назвать геноцидом по отношению к евреям...например дело врачей вредителей. :D Так что сталин был в какой-то мере антисемитом...хотя и сам говорят того...:)

Сталин никогда не был анти-семитом. Когда Гитлер до войны предложил ему выслать всех евреев из страны в обмен на территориальные уступки, Сталин отказался. Сталин был анти-сионистом, но не анти-семитом. Это две разные вещи.

Кстати, Ген. Ассамблея ООН в своей резолюции под номером 3379 в ноябре 1975 года осудила германский фашизм и сионизм как формы расизма и расовой дискриминации.

[kipchak]

еще раз респект тебе Узланд
кста, ребята просмотрите сайт zarubezhom.com

[Delf]

Кстати, только что откопал.

Царскую семью приказал расстрелять не Ленин, а Троцкий, он же Бронштейн....

Link???

Spasibo zaranee,

Delf.

[UzLand]

Link???

Spasibo zaranee,

Delf.

Жена вождей тоже были еврейками.

Молотова - Перл, Ворошилова - Горбман, Калинина - Лорберг, Кирова - Маркус, Куйбышева - Коган, Каменева - Бронштейн (сестра Троцкого), Суслова - Судзимирская и другие.

Источник этой и прежней информации - книга В. Карпова "Генералиссимус" (первая часть).

Сталин не был анти-семитом еще и потому, что он не трогал ни Кагановича, ни жен других вождей, которые также были еврейками.

[Ulug'bek]

Сталин никогда не был анти-семитом. Когда Гитлер до войны предложил ему выслать всех евреев из страны в обмен на территориальные уступки, Сталин отказался. Сталин был анти-сионистом, но не анти-семитом. Это две разные вещи.

Кстати, Ген. Ассамблея ООН в своей резолюции под номером 3379 в ноябре 1975 года осудила германский фашизм и сионизм как формы расизма и расовой дискриминации.


It is good to recall the history of that resolution, who voted for or against it, how it was revoked and how Israel viewed it :

1.
UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION 3379 (XXX)
Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,
...
DETERMINES that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.

the sourse (http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Foreign%20Relations/Israel%20and%20the%20UN/Selected%20resolutions/UNITED%20NATIONS%20GENERAL%20ASSEMBLY%20RESOLUTION %203379%20-X)

Here one can also see Voting Record that shows who was for or against it.

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2.
United Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations)General Assembly Resolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_P alestine) 3379, adopted on November 10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_10), 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975)by a vote of 72 to 35 (with 32 abstentions), equated Zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) with racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism). The resolution was revoked by Resolution 4686 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly_Resolution_4686) on December 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_16), 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991), and is often referenced in debates of Zionism and racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_and_racism).

the source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379)

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3.
And here is how it was revoked

the source (http://www.answers.com/topic/un-general-assembly-resolution-4686)

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4.
And here is how Israel viewed it:

the souce (http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_un_zionism_racism.php)

[UzLand]

Those who voted against.

Voted no: (35) Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Canada, Central African Republic, Costa Rica, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Fiji, Finland, France, Federal Republic of Germany, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Luxembourg, Malawi, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Swaziland, Sweden, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America, Uruguay.