Uzbek court expels ACCELS

[UzLand]

Uzbek court expels ACCELS

RFE/RL
June 1

A court in Tashkent today ordered the closure of the local branch of the American Council for Collaboration in Education and Language Study (ACCELS), making it the latest on a growing list of foreign nongovernmental groups that have been tossed out of Uzbekistan.

A pro-government Uzbek information website, press-uz.info, reports that ACCELS is accused of having sent more than 100 schoolchildren to the United States as part of an exchange program without informing the authorities. It says that, after a nearly one-year absence from the country, the children were deprived of their right to receive education in Uzbekistan.

ACCELS has 20 days to appeal the court's ruling. The group says in a statement on its website that it has prepared a legal response to the charges brought against it.

Uzbekistan has recently ordered the closure of several U.S. NGOs on various charges. On May 31, the Justice Ministry said it had recommended that another U.S. group, Global Involvement Through Education, be shut down on suspicion of proselytizing.

[UzLand]

I would like to interview anyone of you who has an opinion about this. It would be great if you were a participant of ACCELS/IREX programs. How did you benefit from their programs, if you benefitted at all? Have their programs helped you change your life? What do you think about their closure? What are there other ways for Uzbeks to study overseas?

Can anyone answer these questions for Voice of America in Uzbek? - www.voanews.com/uzbek

It is for radio in Uzbek. Interview will be conducted on the phone. Your real name will not be disclosed if you wish to remain anonymous.

[melo]

Uzbek court expels ACCELS

RFE/RL
June 1

A court in Tashkent today ordered the closure of the local branch of the American Council for Collaboration in Education and Language Study (ACCELS), making it the latest on a growing list of foreign nongovernmental groups that have been tossed out of Uzbekistan.

A pro-government Uzbek information website, press-uz.info, reports that ACCELS is accused of having sent more than 100 schoolchildren to the United States as part of an exchange program without informing the authorities. It says that, after a nearly one-year absence from the country, the children were deprived of their right to receive education in Uzbekistan.

ACCELS has 20 days to appeal the court's ruling. The group says in a statement on its website that it has prepared a legal response to the charges brought against it.

Uzbekistan has recently ordered the closure of several U.S. NGOs on various charges. On May 31, the Justice Ministry said it had recommended that another U.S. group, Global Involvement Through Education, be shut down on suspicion of proselytizing.

Wow- the Us government is kidnapping uzbek children and forcing them to study in US schools.:lol: :lol: How will they ever overcome a one year deprivation of uzbek education? :lol: :lol:

Seriously I don't understand the issues with Uzbekistan and educational programs. I have had some affiliation with ACCELS and thought it was decent. It was annoying to meet kids returning from the US who could not stop talking about how wonderful the US was and how they can't wait to go back. Soon Uzbekistan might be like Turkmenistan and not let its citizens leave the country for fear of outside influence and ideas.:rolleyes:

[Yaxshibola]

eee hech bo'masam shu turish keragidide, bolla englizcha urganishayotgandi shulaga qiziqib.

[UzLand]

eee hech bo'masam shu turish keragidide, bolla englizcha urganishayotgandi shulaga qiziqib.

У-бу нарса деворасизми?

[ДЖИГИТ]

Many uzbek children who applied for ACCELS program have been interrogated in Uzbekistan.

[Yaxshibola]

У-бу нарса деворасизми?u-bu, bo'ldimi?:D
kimga etishim kere?

yopganlargami?

[UzLand]

Many uzbek children who applied for ACCELS program have been interrogated in Uzbekistan.

I heard that from my friends.

[UzLand]

u-bu, bo'ldimi?:D
kimga etishim kere?

yopganlargami?

Менга. Интервью учун:) Радиога...лекин епганларни онасидан сукиш шарт эмас:)

[Kitaro]

In many aspects ACCELS program was brilliant but hasn't ACCELS given nothing more than only an opportunity of American life expirience? Participants of this program couldn't even get a job with their "American life experience" in Uzbekistan. As I know, ACCELS hasn't guaranteed good future for children. Am I wrong?

[UzLand]

In many aspects ACCELS program was brilliant but hasn't ACCELS given nothing more than only an opportunity of American life expirience? Participants of this program couldn't even get a job with their "American life experience" in Uzbekistan. As I know, ACCELS hasn't guaranteed good future for children. Am I wrong?

АКСЕЛЗ чайнаб берди нонни, энди огзингизга солиб хам куйсинми? Унда яна СССР буладику! Узи укитиб, узи иш топиб бериб. Укитдими, ишни узингиз топинг. Узбекистонда яхши ишнинг булмаслигига АКСЕЛЗ айбдормасдир.

[Asian_girl]

Guys...I'm really upset hearing this news...Why? why are they doing this?
I"m alumni'05 of FLEX program. ACCELS is a great program for uzbek student, teachers and etc. It's the safest way to go and study in US...great opportunity for everybody for free to have a great experience of foreing culture...it is well organized and tested by years.
why students should be victims of politics? whY?
Asian_girl:)

[Lady_Di]

I'm just wondering, why?
I heard lot of different verses of opinions,
like US turns Uzbek students against Uzb,
or that Uzbek government is afraid that those alumni can make a change in Uzbekistan, and fight for democracy. Or they just want to isolate Uzbek people from the world and make own way of society?
I don't think that Flex progeram only gives students an American life excperience it also makes them think with more patriotism and gives them a desire to make a difference in their homecountry.
Of course not all flex alumni think so, like sonme of them want to go back to US, but like 70 % of them come and begin to do something good, not like fight for democracy with protests or meetings, but by community service and volunteerism. Don't you think so?
Thanx

[Amiri Turkiston]

oni prosto reklamiruyut svoyu stronu i promivayut mozgi nashim studentam a v konce pochti vse stonovyatsya proAmerikanizorovannimi

bili sluchai kada kto to tam predlagal po igrat v igru agenta 007 ... i plus ne malo babok predlagali za etu igru ....

IMHO: ne znayu ne znayu...horosho li eto...no vse taki nasha molodej stanovilas umneya prouchivshiysya tam

prosto im budit s chem potom sravnivat...kuda stremitsya i chto kak, delat

[UzLand]

oni prosto reklamiruyut svoyu stronu i promivayut mozgi nashim studentam a v konce pochti vse stonovyatsya proAmerikanizorovannimi

Все зависит от человека. Некоторые становятся более патриотичными, потому что учатся этому у американцев, видят хорошие стороны Америки и хотят тоже самое в Узбекистан. Некоторые к исламу приходят быстрее именно Америки, потому что среди евреев и христиан, наших все равно тянет больше к своим, к мусульманам. Религия здесь объединяет. Некоторые лучше начинают видеть мир и ситуацию в Узбекистане, потому что здесь полный доступ к информации и ситуацию в Узбекистане видишь лучше. Некоторые остаются в поисках лучшей жизни. Некоторые портятся. Люди разные бывают и на всех Америка по разному влияет. И дело не только в Америки. Человек везде может меняться.

[Amiri Turkiston]

Все зависит от человека. Некоторые становятся более патриотичными, потому что учатся этому у американцев, видят хорошие стороны Америки и хотят тоже самое в Узбекистан.

imeyu vvidu ludi vidyat kak v Amerike jit horosho...kak legko tam zarobatovat...i kak tam mojno naslajdatsya jiznyu

kada kto to priezjaet s Ameriki...vse na nego smotryat kak na geroya ..kak budto on s Marsa prilitel :lol:

vot eto i nazivaetsya proAmerikanizaciya - vozvisheniya Ameriki - i stremleniye zarabatovat dengi imenno tam a ne tuta v Uzb.

[UzLand]

imeyu vvidu ludi vidyat kak v Amerike jit horosho...kak legko tam zarobatovat...i kak tam mojno naslajdatsya jiznyu

kada kto to priezjaet s Ameriki...vse na nego smotryat kak na geroya ..kak budto on s Marsa prilitel :lol:

vot eto i nazivaetsya proAmerikanizaciya - vozvisheniya Ameriki - i stremleniye zarabatovat dengi imenno tam a ne tuta v Uzb.

Ну, человек свободен жить и зарабатывать там где ему удобно и хорошо. В этом нет ничего плохого и этого не называется американизацией, потому что не все эти люди поддерживают политику США. Странно, но почему то мы забываем статистику. Больше 70% выезжаюших из Узбекистана рабочих едут в Россию, потом Казахстан, потом Южная Корея. На долю США приходится порядка одного процента, поэтому не надо обобщать и называть это американизацией. Мы же не называем ту часть, которая выезжает в Россию россиянизацией. Просто у них там нет возможности выходить в Интернет, иначе больше 90% пользователей форума здесь были бы из России.

И потом, в Америке деньги зарабатывать не так уж и легко. Многие, кто приезжает, работают по 12-14 часов, если не больше. В Узбекистане никто так не работает.

[Martingale]

kada kto to priezjaet s Ameriki...vse na nego smotryat kak na geroya ..kak budto on s Marsa prilitel :lol:


osobenno esli etot chelovek black. :lol:

ehh shutta anuv forumni afro degan smilgi keragidi. :lol:

[Alexandria]

Конечно, жалко что закрывают ACCELS, все-таки плюсов от нее больше было, чем недостатков.
Как было сказано выше - все зависит от человека. Мне даже кажется, что именно будучи в США многие из наших раскрывались до конца - я знаком с теми, кто стал носить платки и читать намаз, абсолютное большинство заново открыло для себя Узбекистан (много вопросов, на которые оказывается надо знать ответы - даже в минимальном туристическом аспекте). Именно здесь, где предрассудки совсем другие, а материальный аспект не актуален - вылезает все то, о чем дома даже не догадывались. Были и те, у кого ломалась психика по возвращении в силу своей неустойчивости.
Вообще считаю год, проведенный школярами в Штатах хорошим испытанием, после которого большинство становится духовно и сознательно выше и дальше на своем жизненном пути.

P.S. Таким макаром скоро посольство США тоже закроют:shock:

[melo]

In many aspects ACCELS program was brilliant but hasn't ACCELS given nothing more than only an opportunity of American life expirience? Participants of this program couldn't even get a job with their "American life experience" in Uzbekistan. As I know, ACCELS hasn't guaranteed good future for children. Am I wrong?

What porgram in the world guarantees a good future for its participants?:shock: Just a hint- you have to take care of yourself! Take experiences and build off of them. I don't believe ACCELS has any promises of making you rich or finding you a job in Uzbekistan. :rolleyes:

[Amiri Turkiston]

Ну, человек свободен жить и зарабатывать там где ему удобно и хорошо. В этом нет ничего плохого и этого не называется американизацией, потому что не все эти люди поддерживают политику США. Странно, но почему то мы забываем статистику. Больше 70% выезжаюших из Узбекистана рабочих едут в Россию, потом Казахстан, потом Южная Корея. На долю США приходится порядка одного процента, поэтому не надо обобщать и называть это американизацией. Мы же не называем ту часть, которая выезжает в Россию россиянизацией. Просто у них там нет возможности выходить в Интернет, иначе больше 90% пользователей форума здесь были бы из России.

И потом, в Америке деньги зарабатывать не так уж и легко. Многие, кто приезжает, работают по 12-14 часов, если не больше. В Узбекистане никто так не работает.

ya ne govoryu chto eto ploho ;)
ne mne sudit eto vse ...ya lish pitalsya konstatirovat imeyushie fakti

vse bi uehali v Ameriku esli bi ne sleduyushie faktori:
- ne znanie yazika
- dorogovizna vseh soputstvuyushih rashodov
- i konechnoje slojnost polucheniye VIZI

a v Rossiyu legche popast chem v Ameriku...v Rossiyu mojno popast i za 10 000 sum :lol:

[shady_lady]

Hey guys the program was closed because of relationship of US with Uzb is f.cked up =)
And now everyone trys to set from one up:D

[UzLand]

vse bi uehali v Ameriku esli bi ne sleduyushie faktori:
- ne znanie yazika
- dorogovizna vseh soputstvuyushih rashodov
- i konechnoje slojnost polucheniye VIZI

Главное - была бы виза. Незнание языка не мешает никому туда ехать. Половина узбеков в Америки не знает языка.

[Asian_girl]

UzLand:"Все зависит от человека."
Soglasna, chto vsyo zavisit ot cheloveka, ot togo chto imenno on hochet ot etoy programmi...kakiye vivodi on delayet posle vozvrasheniya...But anyways this program did anormous changes in student's life... Budet jalko esli yeyo zakroyut:(

[Kiyovtura]

В принципе Узланд брат прав так и должно.
У Узбека должны существовать твердые принципы, но, разве всё должно быть таким оброзом?
Мы должны были к этому готовы, хотя всегда хочется иначе, да кто знает что хотят. Unless should not be pass allow?
Мы должны понять и принять етот факт, и тогда слава дойдет даже до шаха ...
Ну если чесно скажу так, Узбекистан ето которой синие застиранные трусы натянуты до того места, где должна быть талия, хотя джинсы сидят ровно на толстых бедрах.

[VARATAR]

хммм, олдиндан узр сурайман аммо:

Худди Ахборот передачасини кургандай булдим :)

бирон-бир вокеага бирон-бир сабаб курсатиладиде, и (ва) хамма уша сабабни ёниб-куйиб мухокама килишни бошлайди. Вахоланки, уша вокеанинг тагида бошка асосий сабаблари ётганлиги уйлаб курилмайди. Тарихда хеч качон булиб утган вокеага (сиёсий) асосий сабаби ёпиштирилмайди, балки иккиламчи, уччаламчи (шунака суз борми узи, учинчи даражали демокчи эдим :) ) сабаблар рукач килинади манимча, адашвотган булсам узр.

балки, бошка сабаблари бордир? :)

[UzLand]

хммм, олдиндан узр сурайман аммо:

Худди Ахборот передачасини кургандай булдим :)

бирон-бир вокеага бирон-бир сабаб курсатиладиде, и (ва) хамма уша сабабни ёниб-куйиб мухокама килишни бошлайди. Вахоланки, уша вокеанинг тагида бошка асосий сабаблари ётганлиги уйлаб курилмайди. Тарихда хеч качон булиб утган вокеага (сиёсий) асосий сабаби ёпиштирилмайди, балки иккиламчи, уччаламчи (шунака суз борми узи, учинчи даражали демокчи эдим :) ) сабаблар рукач килинади манимча, адашвотган булсам узр.

балки, бошка сабаблари бордир? :)

Роса фалсафий буп кетди. Боши билан охирини адаштириб юбордим:)

[elDoraDo]

хммм, олдиндан узр сурайман аммо:

Худди Ахборот передачасини кургандай булдим :)

бирон-бир вокеага бирон-бир сабаб курсатиладиде, и (ва) хамма уша сабабни ёниб-куйиб мухокама килишни бошлайди. Вахоланки, уша вокеанинг тагида бошка асосий сабаблари ётганлиги уйлаб курилмайди. Тарихда хеч качон булиб утган вокеага (сиёсий) асосий сабаби ёпиштирилмайди, балки иккиламчи, уччаламчи (шунака суз борми узи, учинчи даражали демокчи эдим :) ) сабаблар рукач килинади манимча, адашвотган булсам узр.

балки, бошка сабаблари бордир? :)
Eng yomoni esa - odam boshqalarni aldayman deb ohirida bu yolg'onga ozi ham ishonib qolishi emasmi mobodo?
p.s. wb

[Amiri Turkiston]

voobshe nima deb o'ylaysizlar:

1. Nimaga endi Amerikoslar sizlarni tegnga o'qitishi kerak?
(agar foydasi bo'lmaganda edi.....etishadiku teginga mushuk oftobga chiqmaydi deb)

2. Raz tekinga o'qidingizmi bundan chiqdi ul-bul yordam qilishingiz kerak bulsa kerak da kelajakda

[UzLand]

voobshe nima deb o'ylaysizlar:

1. Nimaga endi Amerikoslar sizlarni tegnga o'qitishi kerak?
(agar foydasi bo'lmaganda edi.....etishadiku teginga mushuk oftobga chiqmaydi deb)

2. Raz tekinga o'qidingizmi bundan chiqdi ul-bul yordam qilishingiz kerak bulsa kerak da kelajakda

Бу энди сал-пал узбекча менталитет. Пул бердими, оркасини ялаш керак. Умид шунака дастур эди. АКСЕЛЗники ундай эмас. Сизни хеч ким Американи севинг деб мажбурламайди, укишдан сунг бошингизни огритмайди.

[Kitaro]

АКСЕЛЗ чайнаб берди нонни, энди огзингизга солиб хам куйсинми? Унда яна СССР буладику! Узи укитиб, узи иш топиб бериб. Укитдими, ишни узингиз топинг. Узбекистонда яхши ишнинг булмаслигига АКСЕЛЗ айбдормасдир.
По моему, ты хотел узнать про наши мнения, но в итоге получается так, что ты защищаешь АКСЕЛЗ, и стараешься сказать нам, что эта программа идеальна. По крайней мере я так понял.
По моему, позиция того, кто принимает интервью должна быть нейтральной.

[Kitaro]

What porgram in the world guarantees a good future for its participants?:shock: Just a hint- you have to take care of yourself! Take experiences and build off of them. I don't believe ACCELS has any promises of making you rich or finding you a job in Uzbekistan. :rolleyes:
I don't criticise ACCELS programs and don't want to. Moreover, I think it's wonderful program. But young students might put in use their time into more useful activities in building their futures than having wonderful one-year life in America. Many of those who participated in ACCELS programs wanted to return to the States to live the life they have seen. Of course, if those participants use their American experience in developing Uzbekistan it will be super, but it also may provoke negative vision on our country and make them to hate our government and cause brain exodus etc...So, who stays in Uzbekistan? Who to care of our country? This is my point!!!

[antiSNOB]

Hi guys.
I've problem:
I've registered to take TOEFL test in Tashkent. My Test date : 28june 2006
I don't know what to do...
:(:(:(

[Martingale]

Hi guys.
I've problem:
I've registered to take TOEFL test in Tashkent. My Test date : 28june 2006
I don't know what to do...
:(:(:(

LOL>:lol: what's your problem?

is the problem that you are taking TOEFL? then why did you register for the test?:rolleyes:

if yes, heads up! you've got almost one month ahead...so work your arse off and everything will be fine:cool:

on: That certainly wasn't good.

on2: Amir, you are so wrong.

[Ulugbek_99]

I don't criticise ACCELS programs and don't want to. Moreover, I think it's wonderful program. But young students might put in use their time into more useful activities in building their futures than having wonderful one-year life in America. Many of those who participated in ACCELS programs wanted to return to the States to live the life they have seen. Of course, if those participants use their American experience in developing Uzbekistan it will be super, but it also may provoke negative vision on our country and make them to hate our government and cause brain exodus etc...So, who stays in Uzbekistan? Who to care of our country? This is my point!!!

I am FLEX 03,

Tell you what, High School is not completely, but partially a joke. Open book tests? Give me a break man. Notion of ACCELS trying to "educate" young minds as if we lack that in UZB is a nonsense.

What ACCELS gives is a micture of different factors that I think are positive. It helped me to discover my potentials, and thanks to that I am now getting higher education in US (again, it is not that we don't have "education" in UZB, it is the prestige of US diploma)

It is true that almost every FLEX wants to come back for college. If they go to college in UZB, it is because they don't have the opportunity to come here or they can't afford it.

I am all cool with having a good life in US and their chasing after their american dreams (which I see as being borne, going to school so you get a better job, go to college to get a better job and life, and work all your life so you can retire, and when you retire you go to couple places and tell yourself that you are happy)

Only thing I am concerned is will they return, will they give back, will they help UZB in the future or are they trying to escape UZB. Another thing is their loosing our values. Uzbek student gets asked about his religion and after couple month you seem him chasing after boys or girls and "doing things" Others around will go like "Is that who Muslims are?"

I get e-mail updates and anouncements for alumni. It goes like "Oh, we are doing that community project and we are helping orphants and so and so, .... and free beer afterwards! We are also going to have a disco"
I go like: what the filip? You are going to get them drunk and touch each others flesh afterwards and dance lustily towards each other! I am sorry, I will take a rain check. Besides, who are you to destroy my nations morale!

[antiSNOB]

LOL>:lol: what's your problem?

is the problem that you are taking TOEFL? then why did you register for the test?:rolleyes:

if yes, heads up! you've got almost one month ahead...so work your arse off and everything will be fine:cool:

on: That certainly wasn't good.

on2: Amir, you are so wrong.

Usually in Tashkent we take TOEFL in ACCELS office. It's closed. So what will I have to do?
I called them, but they have no idea...

[Martingale]

Usually in Tashkent we take TOEFL in ACCELS office. It's closed. So what will I have to do?
I called them, but they have no idea...

now I see your point. however, I don't think they will stop conducting the tests just because of that. how about those who are going to US to study on their own?:rolleyes: If you have contacted them, then you are fine. they will find a way...so strange...usually americans are very prompt in that kind of situation, but I guess, those who adminster toefl tests are still uzbeks. :lol:

[Martingale]

vasyok,

the problem is that ACCELS library/office was the only place in Tashkent where students could take their official Toefl test.

if you have noticed vasyok,

i already wrote about this in my second post.

[UzLand]

По моему, ты хотел узнать про наши мнения, но в итоге получается так, что ты защищаешь АКСЕЛЗ, и стараешься сказать нам, что эта программа идеальна. По крайней мере я так понял.
По моему, позиция того, кто принимает интервью должна быть нейтральной.

Здесь я интервью не беру. Дай свой телефон, позвоню и можешь сказать про АКСЕЛЗ все что думаешь и я выдам это в эфир. Естественно, при условии что критика и обвинения конструктивны, а не с воздуха.

А здесь на форуме я буду защищать АКСЕЛЗ. Потому что для наших студентов лучше год учебы в Штатах, чем три в Узбекистане, где ты больше тупеешь, чем учишься чему-нибудь. По-крайней мере, в Штатах тебя не заставляют знать и учить ежегодное послание президента США:)

[UzLand]

Another thing is their loosing our values. Uzbek student gets asked about his religion and after couple month you seem him chasing after boys or girls and "doing things" Others around will go like "Is that who Muslims are?"

You never saw guys chasing girls back in Uzbekistan? It is not America we should blame for loosing our values. It us, our leaders, our government.

I get e-mail updates and anouncements for alumni. It goes like "Oh, we are doing that community project and we are helping orphants and so and so, .... and free beer afterwards! We are also going to have a disco"

I go like: what the filip? You are going to get them drunk and touch each others flesh afterwards and dance lustily towards each other! I am sorry, I will take a rain check. Besides, who are you to destroy my nations morale!

Does that mean if they gave you free cocaine or heroine, you would take it? You have a choice. You drink beer and dance or just do the community project and leave. No one is forcing you to do anything.

FLEX program is not only about education. It is about growing up, developing indepedent thinking which our students in high-school lack, more initiativeness, believing in your abilities and many other factors.

[Ulugbek_99]

You never saw guys chasing girls back in Uzbekistan? It is not America we should blame for loosing our values. It us, our leaders, our government.



Does that mean if they gave you free cocaine or heroine, you would take it? You have a choice. You drink beer and dance or just do the community project and leave. No one is forcing you to do anything.

FLEX program is not only about education. It is about growing up, developing indepedent thinking which our students in high-school lack, more initiativeness, believing in your abilities and many other factors.

I see guys chasing girls in UZB. But they shouldn't be the ones who ACCELS is trying to help growing up and think independently. I have seen lots of those partiers, all selfish dumbasses, you initiate a project and they don't have time for stupid reasons. The only reason they show up for projects is that free food and beer and disco. How do you carry out the project with those people, they are so ready for the day to get over and it is only 9am in the morning!!!. Don't you get the catch in my above post, that is in bold? ACCELS knows that lot of people show up if you put up disco and free beer afterwards. Yes it is our fault that we have those, no need to blame America or ACCELS, they are just taking advantage of our alumnis inclanation towards those kinds of things, for the sake of good cause (community project) and to be able to report to the top that they are doing something. It is our fault for going immoral.


I don't know what high school you went to bro, but the proportion of independent thinkers (also speaks valid and sound) in high schools over on our side of the UZB is multiple times higher than any high school I have observed in US so far. And they work harder towards achievements than any other ACCELS alumni, including me.

Yes ACCELS helps people on individual level, opens up opportunities for them towards succesful citizenship of US, and all other things, which are good - for them. But all those things that is talked about on their brochures and fliers, that are exchange of cultures and helping the development of home countries, are not happening. I know the vision and purpose of ACCELS really well, and I also know that lot of people don't deserve to be an exchange student, and for that faulty selection process, the results are poor. I am not saying it is right to shut it down. Shutting it down is one of the example of our government's hipocricy, which is also reflection of our hipocricy, right?

[Martingale]

Yes ACCELS helps people on individual level, opens up opportunities for them towards succesful citizenship of US, and all other things, which are good - for them. But all those things that is talked about on their brochures and fliers, that are exchange of cultures and helping the development of home countries, are not happening. I know the vision and purpose of ACCELS really well, and I also know that lot of people don't deserve to be an exchange student, and for that faulty selection process, the results are poor. I am not saying it is right to shut it down. Shutting it down is one of the example of our government's hipocricy, which is also reflection of our hipocricy, right?

why are you blaming accels for that?:rolleyes:

so you are admitting that accels is helping people on individual level, but not helping the development of what?? why they should help to develop? are you kiddin me?

if accels were not there, you won't be probably studying where you are right now. don't forget that. ;)

[Martingale]

actually flex is not that big deal, but if they close the student exchange....hmmm...that would be such a big mistake...i hope Im not giving them an idea:D

[Martingale]

Hey guys the program was closed because of relationship of US with Uzb is f.cked up =)
And now everyone trys to set from one up:D

I think this is the only post where you forgot to say "don't worry be happy":D

[Ulugbek_99]

I haven't blamed ACCELS. I have commented on some things and stated my concerns on others, such as poor selection of applicants and inefficiency on other areas.

I am sorry but I am not kidding you. I guess I will try different way:

Qualified applicants are selected>Sent to US to grow as independed thinkers>get experience and wider outlook>come back to home countries>being an indepedent thinker, participate in the community, carry out projects>contribute to mutual understanding and friendship between home countries and US>and as they go on, build up on their previous experience, and be leaders (Future Leaders Exchange Program)>being leaders, help the development of their countries>in the long run, as a leaders, conribute to understanding and peace in the world (it was called FSA FLEX, FSA is Freedom Support Act, that was passed in the brink of the collapse of USSR)>above all help the former communist countries to make the transition to democracy and alumni will the the people who will be doing that.

Did I anwer you question clearly? I don't think US government would be spending millions of dollars just for helping very few members of student community of Uzbekistan to take a vacation to US. Don't you think so?

[Ulugbek_99]

I would like to discuss this topic with FLEX alumni who I belive will happen to have more insight knowledge on ACCELS. If you are alumni, please let youself to be known.

Having not been through the whole process of exchge, and only taking pro-American or Anti-American stance on the issue is less beneficial for the few delicate points of the discussion.

[Martingale]

Did I anwer you question clearly? I don't think US government would be spending millions of dollars just for helping very few members of student community of Uzbekistan to take a vacation to US. Don't you think so?

well...you just wrote what they are trying to do. my question is : SO WHAT?:)

actually flex program is much cheaper than any other programs of ACCELS. ;)

[Martingale]

I would like to discuss this topic with FLEX alumni who I belive will happen to have more insight knowledge on ACCELS. If you are alumni, please let youself to be known.

Having not been through the whole process of exchge, and only taking pro-American or Anti-American stance on the issue is less beneficial for the few delicate points of the discussion.

Im not a flex alumni, but I know how all these things work.
Im actually an alumnus of another us gov. sponsored program and I believe Im not americanized. ;)

[Martingale]

Qualified applicants are selected>Sent to US to grow as independed thinkers>get experience and wider outlook>come back to home countries>being an indepedent thinker, participate in the community, carry out projects>contribute to mutual understanding and friendship between home countries and US>and as they go on, build up on their previous experience, and be leaders (Future Leaders Exchange Program)>being leaders, help the development of their countries>in the long run, as a leaders, conribute to understanding and peace in the world (it was called FSA FLEX, FSA is Freedom Support Act, that was passed in the brink of the collapse of USSR)>above all help the former communist countries to make the transition to democracy and alumni will the the people who will be doing that.



show me anything wrong that accels is doing in this chain?
nothing. ACCELS is exactly helping to achieve the democracy, but our government doesn't want to have democracy. that's why they closed it.

[Ulugbek_99]

Nothing in this chain is wrong, this is ideal process. But ACCELS was not performing good enough at the beginning of the chain. Of course, they select the specified number of applicants, but how well do they deserve to be selected as finalists?

Besides, why do they even say they will foster democracy when democracy is utopoia and fails every single time, plus found to be inefficient. Why not say representative republic?

I am for the continuation of ACCELS and the programs that are under it. But I think it can be run a lot better.

P.S.: Flex maybe the cheapest, but number of students they take from each country makes the expenses high. Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs knows that it is worth it because it is easier task to mold and shape an individual when they are younger.

[forex]

Few days ago,I went to the airport to meet couple of guys flying from Tashkent and I ran into 13 uzbek guys,it felt like I was in Uzbekistan because I haven't seen so many uzbeks being gathered at the same spot.I think there is some kind of program that lets them come to the US over the summer and work.They all have J1 visas and are in the US for the summer.Some of them were asking me if they could apply for school while they are here.So there are other opportunities for uzbek guys and girls to come to the US.

[UzLand]

I don't know what high school you went to bro, but the proportion of independent thinkers (also speaks valid and sound) in high schools over on our side of the UZB is multiple times higher than any high school I have observed in US so far. And they work harder towards achievements than any other ACCELS alumni, including me.

I would contest this very much. I taught at School 178 in Tashkent for over a year so I know what I am talking about. If Uzbeks were good independent thinkers from their early years, we would not tolerate some people in the government so long.

[melo]

I don't know what high school you went to bro, but the proportion of independent thinkers (also speaks valid and sound) in high schools over on our side of the UZB is multiple times higher than any high school I have observed in US so far. And they work harder towards achievements than any other ACCELS alumni, including me.

Yes ACCELS helps people on individual level, opens up opportunities for them towards succesful citizenship of US, and all other things, which are good - for them. But all those things that is talked about on their brochures and fliers, that are exchange of cultures and helping the development of home countries, are not happening. I know the vision and purpose of ACCELS really well, and I also know that lot of people don't deserve to be an exchange student, and for that faulty selection process, the results are poor. I am not saying it is right to shut it down. Shutting it down is one of the example of our government's hipocricy, which is also reflection of our hipocricy, right?

You ideas of your school and culture appear unjustified to me. Uzbeks are not known for independent thinking. That is definietly an issue they can work on. Travelling to other countries is a good way to open that up. Seriously, why do uzbeks need to study and work abroad if there are so many independent thinking uzbeks. Also, Uzbeks are known to drink more than Americans. Don't think that ACCELS is ruining your culture.:rolleyes: :lol: Also, how would you improve the selection process? Maybe they should just let Uzbek government officials select their relatives.:lol:

[Ulugbek_99]

Uzbeks have weaknesses, but that doesn't make them dependent thinkers. They might lack unity and dedicatoin that are necessary for change, but the truthfulness of whether uzbeks are independent thinkers or not is not judged by your network and circle of your students. You should travel more to other regions of Uzbekistan.

It is true that Uzbeks are not known for their independent thinking, the term uzbek is hardly known itself. Yes they need to work on that, everyone should work on that, if anyone claimed they are independent thinkers and they don't have to work on that anymore, I know that they would be bullshittin'.

Believe me, americanizing is contibuting to immorality even though it is not the smoking gun factor.

What, you don't clean your room because it will get messy again?

Seriously, why do Japanese and South Koreans need to study and work abroad if there are so many independent thinking Japanese and South Koreans?

The process of assessing the applicant is not disclosed, so I don't have extensive knowledge on what should be done during the assessment process. However, inefficiency of FLEX and other programs have been talked about on top levels and one year I remeber that on the questions to be asnwered to be able to go to Washington Worshop, they implied inefficiency was being discussed and the question was "Why do you think the FLEX should be continued?" So, how the selection should be improved, it is only known to them. Actually, uzbek government at the beginning proposed to do the selection by themselves, but it was turned down immediately.

Travelling to different countries is crucial to have an ability to think independently, but sending scumbags to travel isn't useful. Period

[Martingale]

Uzbeks have weaknesses, but that doesn't make them dependent thinkers. They might lack unity and dedicatoin that are necessary for change, but the truthfulness of whether uzbeks are independent thinkers or not is not judged by your network and circle of your students. You should travel more to other regions of Uzbekistan.

It is true that Uzbeks are not known for their independent thinking, the term uzbek is hardly known itself. Yes they need to work on that, everyone should work on that, if anyone claimed they are independent thinkers and they don't have to work on that anymore, I know that they would be bullshittin'.


this is totally irrelevant. are we discussin here why Accels was closed or uzbeks as independent thinkers?


Believe me, americanizing is contibuting to immorality even though it is not the smoking gun factor.

what do you understand by americanizing? please give an example.


The process of assessing the applicant is not disclosed, so I don't have extensive knowledge on what should be done during the assessment process. However, inefficiency of FLEX and other programs have been talked about on top levels and one year I remeber that on the questions to be asnwered to be able to go to Washington Worshop, they implied inefficiency was being discussed and the question was "Why do you think the FLEX should be continued?" So, how the selection should be improved, it is only known to them. Actually, uzbek government at the beginning proposed to do the selection by themselves, but it was turned down immediately.


ok I got your point. so you wanna say that the program became inefficient.
but lemme ask, when you were in washington workshop did you talk about whether the program is efficient for US or for Accels or for Uzbekistan?
dude if it's inefficient, it would be for Accels, but not for you. They might not be able to achieve those goals that you mentioned before...fostering democracy etc. And as a result, they might receive less funding from US department of state. Think of accels, irex etc. as competitors. they compete with each other to get funds from US State Department every year. 2 years ago Irex won muskie program from Accels. Therefore, accels had those workshops with you guys. But is it a failure for Uzbekistan? Hell no!!!
Young uzbekistanis just like you see the world, learn more, practice their english etc. Man, grow up. we all know that all these americanization stuff is bullshit. it all depends on the person whether he gets affected by the environment or not.

if there was a similar program in UK, Im sure european environment would affect young uzbeks' way of thinking. would you call that europeanization then?:lol:
The thing is those kids who go to american high schools are still in "perehodnoy vozrast". So some of them might become affected because of the different culture and environment. But it doesn't mean that America wants them to become like that. If they did, why would they care about educating mature guys such as students and practicioners....do they want to get them americanized too?

Bullshit!!! Bullshit!!! Bullshit!!!

[UzLand]

In any case, ACCELS was providing an opportunity and it is up to an individual student to apply for its programs and go to US for study or not. No one is forcing anyone. People should have a choice. To study in US or in Uzbekistan. It is not up to the government to decide where Uzbek students should study. The government is picking its nose in too many places restricting people's freedom of choice.

Like someone told me yesterday Uzbekistan today is the worst form of the USSR:) Logically, yes, it is true, because same people are in power except in USSR they were told what to do and those telling them what to do were a bit smarter.

[melo]

Believe me, americanizing is contibuting to immorality even though it is not the smoking gun factor.


I can't think of a less Americanized place in the world than central asia. :shock:

Seriously, why do Japanese and South Koreans need to study and work abroad if there are so many independent thinking Japanese and South Koreans?


Well- it isn't because they don't have good options at home.

[melo]

The selection of FLEX applicants is based on a testing process. The first round is open to anyone of a certain age range. All applicants receiving a certain score are called back for a another test. Then top scores are intervierwed specifically about leadership qualities and exeperience. They also are asked to write essays on applicable topics. These scores are then sent back to Washington D.C. for selection (therefore any local corruption is not possible). So the ACCELS office in Washington is selecting applicants who must meet their goals and criteria (probably something about active, intelligent, energetic indiviudals that will want to build democracy).

[illusion]

хммм, олдиндан узр сурайман аммо:

Худди Ахборот передачасини кургандай булдим :)

бирон-бир вокеага бирон-бир сабаб курсатиладиде, и (ва) хамма уша сабабни ёниб-куйиб мухокама килишни бошлайди. Вахоланки, уша вокеанинг тагида бошка асосий сабаблари ётганлиги уйлаб курилмайди. Тарихда хеч качон булиб утган вокеага (сиёсий) асосий сабаби ёпиштирилмайди, балки иккиламчи, уччаламчи (шунака суз борми узи, учинчи даражали демокчи эдим :) ) сабаблар рукач килинади манимча, адашвотган булсам узр.

балки, бошка сабаблари бордир? :)

Wohaaha Varatar ubil, kak vsegda v svoyom repertuare...(Invitation from Office Market to Maymun Oqshomi)...Kadr ti kadr, o'n marta o'qib chiqtim postni, hot' ubey. Ti sam ne zaputalsya poka pitalsya obyasnit...Bizga qehqonchasiga tushuntirsez okam, tushunamiz! ;)

Concerning this thread: No matter what, in my opinion, ACCELS was one of the leading and successful international organizations in Uzbekistan. It has the largest number of alumni among other non-profit, international educational programs in the country. Moreover, FLEX, UGRAD, TEA, JFDP, Fullbright, Open World and Muskie gave a great opporunity for people of Uzbekistan to experience an American way of living, educational system, and for God's sake it gave an opportunity to receive a "godamned" free education in different top schools of America.

Tak chto dehqoncha gaplarni qo'yinglar! "Nekrasivo" deyilarmidi o'rischasiga? ;)

[The Reaper]

ACCELS Alumni in 1993.

As to the subject, the program was indeed helpful, and at least gave students an opportunity to enrich themselves both academically and culturally.

However, their student placement sucked. Some were placed in big cities while others had to endure living in a small hick town in the middle of nowhere. Many of people I knew complained about it all the time.
Guess what their program advisors used to say, "It's about cultural exchange"! Yeah tell that to a good ol' hick wearing his cowboy hat, driving around in his truck, chewing tobacco, and listening to country music. He has as much in common with culture, as cockroach with a guerilla. Culture my ass.

TR

[melo]

ACCELS Alumni in 1993.

As to the subject, the program was indeed helpful, and at least gave students an opportunity to enrich themselves both academically and culturally.

However, their student placement sucked. Some were placed in big cities while others had to endure living in a small hick town in the middle of nowhere. Many of people I knew complained about it all the time.
Guess what their program advisors used to say, "It's about cultural exchange"! Yeah tell that to a good ol' hick wearing his cowboy hat, driving around in his truck, chewing tobacco, and listening to country music. He has as much in common with culture, as cockroach with a guerilla. Culture my ass.

TR

sorry- it wasn't designed as a free vacation. That is exactly what a cultural exchange is about. Whether you liked their culture or not- it still was their culture. You want to control where you go- pay for it yourself.:lol: Most of the US is not large cities. Most of the population does not live in urban areas. They also need to find families willing to accept exchange students and pay for their expenses. Let me know if you are willing to take in foreign kids and support them for 9 months while getting nothing back monetarily.

[The Reaper]

sorry- it wasn't designed as a free vacation. That is exactly what a cultural exchange is about. Whether you liked their culture or not- it still was their culture. You want to control where you go- pay for it yourself.:lol: Most of the US is not large cities. Most of the population does not live in urban areas. They also need to find families willing to accept exchange students and pay for their expenses. Let me know if you are willing to take in foreign kids and support them for 9 months while getting nothing back monetarily.

Have I stated that I wanted a free vacation?
I stated my personal opinion, based on numerous cases I know, and I still think they should have made some changes in regards to student placement. No matter what they and you mean by "cultural exchange", I say putting students in towns with population less than 1,000 is a joke. No wonder that during large gatherings of students, those from micro-towns were the most depressed. I mean seriously, you should have seen their faces, their "Oh my God, that's people!" stare was just priceless. :D
IMO, generally, the only people who live in those towns are either old farts, or plain losers who were too lazy and dumb to make it in the city. Culture - 0; ACCELS - 1.
I didn't say they should place all students in large cities, but at least in towns with population not less than 20,000.

As far as host families "not getting anything back", I don't know which year you were there, but during my time, my host family at least, had all their expenses reimbursed at the end of each month. In addition to that, they had some sort of a tax benefit, but I don't remember the details.

TR

[illusion]

Host families do not receive any reimbursements and none of their expenses are covered. However, they have some tax benefits, which are pretty good and this what attracts most of the families to volunteer.

[melo]

As far as host families "not getting anything back", I don't know which year you were there, but during my time, my host family at least, had all their expenses reimbursed at the end of each month. In addition to that, they had some sort of a tax benefit, but I don't remember the details.

TR

Nope- they receive nothing. Tax benefits are not much of an incentive.

Host families do not receive any reimbursements and none of their expenses are covered. However, they have some tax benefits, which are pretty good and this what attracts most of the families to volunteer.

this is what attracts them to volunteer? that is stupid. Paying a few less dollars in taxes is a reason to take a stranger into your house, feed them, and support them financially?:rolleyes:

[Hamitovich]

Host families do not receive any reimbursements and none of their expenses are covered. However, they have some tax benefits, which are pretty good and this what attracts most of the families to volunteer. Its not your legs, is it?

[kipchak]

Я лично рад что их закрыли не смотря на слезы и стенание тех кто уже проучился по этой программе, и не смотря на красивые лозунги типа "будущие лидеры, строители демократии и так далее" которые давно себя так измарали, что уже и читать их надоедает.

Есть конечно позитивные результаты от этой программы, но на мой взгляд негатива намного больше. И потом вопрос все таки - кому это выгодно, вернее кому это выгоднее - горстке подростков которые увидят мир, расширят кругозор и так далее, или для Штатов которые готовят своих будущих зондер - коммандер среди будущей национальной/местной интеллигенции как пятую колонну, которую они ох как хорошо умеют использовать.

[The Reaper]

Nope- they receive nothing. Tax benefits are not much of an incentive.

Gee, I guess I'm lying. :rolleyes:

TR

[The Reaper]

Я лично рад что их закрыли не смотря на слезы и стенание тех кто уже проучился по этой программе, и не смотря на красивые лозунги типа "будущие лидеры, строители демократии и так далее" которые давно себя так измарали, что уже и читать их надоедает.

Есть конечно позитивные результаты от этой программы, но на мой взгляд негатива намного больше. И потом вопрос все таки - кому это выгодно, вернее кому это выгоднее - горстке подростков которые увидят мир, расширят кругозор и так далее, или для Штатов которые готовят своих будущих зондер - коммандер среди будущей национальной/местной интеллигенции как пятую колонну, которую они ох как хорошо умеют использовать.

Я помню как по прибытии в Америку, я заснул у себя в комнате и проснулся в яркой белой палате, в голову присоединили какие-то контакты. В вены капали какую-то жидкость. Потом помню мужской голос, но не помню содержание разговора. Не знаю сколько это длилось, но вскоре я очнулся в той-же комнате. Со временем я начал замечать, что во мне постоянно крутиться мысль о демократии и равенстве людей, и т.д.

Мне эти кошмары порой не давали спать. Иногда я терял сознание. Самое страшное, что после возвращения в Узбекистан, каждый раз когда я смотрел "Ахборот", у меня появлялся рвотный рефлекс. Эти сволочи Американцы виноваты в том что я даже не могу объективно оценивать огромный прогресс Узбекистана во главе с президентом!! :evil:

Так что я являюсь живым свидетельством опытов которые Американцы проводили на некоторых студентах.

TR

[Legend]

Я помню как по прибытии в Америку, я заснул у себя в комнате и проснулся в яркой белой палате, в голову присоединили какие-то контакты. В вены капали какую-то жидкость. Потом помню мужской голос, но не помню содержание разговора. Не знаю сколько это длилось, но вскоре я очнулся в той-же комнате. Со временем я начал замечать, что во мне постоянно крутиться мысль о демократии и равенстве людей, и т.д.

Мне эти кошмары порой не давали спать. Иногда я терял сознание. Самое страшное, что после возвращения в Узбекистан, каждый раз когда я смотрел "Ахборот", у меня появлялся рвотный рефлекс. Эти сволочи Американцы виноваты в том что я даже не могу объективно оценивать огромный прогресс Узбекистана во главе с президентом!! :evil:

Так что я являюсь живым свидетельством опытов которые Американцы проводили на некоторых студентах.

TR

Loool , nu ti i opisal ( udareniye na "A" ) :D , chem to X-files napominaet :D

[kipchak]

[QUOTE=The Reaper]Я помню как по прибытии в Америку, я заснул у себя в комнате и проснулся в яркой белой палате, в голову присоединили какие-то контакты. В вены капали какую-то жидкость. Потом помню мужской голос, но не помню содержание разговора. Не знаю сколько это длилось, но вскоре я очнулся в той-же комнате. Со временем я начал замечать, что во мне постоянно крутиться мысль о демократии и равенстве людей, и т.д.

Мне эти кошмары порой не давали спать. Иногда я терял сознание. Самое страшное, что после возвращения в Узбекистан, каждый раз когда я смотрел "Ахборот", у меня появлялся рвотный рефлекс. Эти сволочи Американцы виноваты в том что я даже не могу объективно оценивать огромный прогресс Узбекистана во главе с президентом!! :evil:

Так что я являюсь живым свидетельством опытов которые Американцы проводили на некоторых студентах.

TR[/QUOTE

Ваш пост лишь еще раз доказывает о "полезности" таких программ как АКСЕЛС..

[The Reaper]

Ваш пост лишь еще раз доказывает о "полезности" таких программ как АКСЕЛС..

Я знаю, поэтому захотел довести до всех остальных дьявольскую сущность программ обмена студентами! Некоторые настолько морально разложились что со временем поступали в Американские университеты, вместо того чтобы хлопок на полях Родины собирать!!

Долой АКСЕЛС!!
Как верно подметил в своей новой книге наш любимый юртбаши, "Узбекский народ никогда ни от кого не будет зависеть". Закрытие ACCELS это всего лишь часть политики "де-демократизации" народа. И слава Богу! Даже само слово "демократия" созвучно слову "демон"!

опять руки затряслись.... не могу.... опять видения... демокрр....

TR

[kipchak]

Я знаю, поэтому захотел довести до всех остальных дьявольскую сущность программ обмена студентами! Некоторые настолько морально разложились что со временем поступали в Американские университеты, вместо того чтобы хлопок на полях Родины собирать!!

Долой АКСЕЛС!!
Как верно подметил в своей новой книге наш любимый юртбаши, "Узбекский народ никогда ни от кого не будет зависеть". Закрытие ACCELS это всего лишь часть политики "де-демократизации" народа. И слава Богу! Даже само слово "демократия" созвучно слову "демон"!

опять руки затряслись.... не могу.... опять видения... демокрр....

TR


От тех кто в поле хоть какая то польза Родине. А от АКСЕЛС какая?

[UzLand]

От тех кто в поле хоть какая то польза Родине. А от АКСЕЛС какая?

Вроде бы мы уже не в СССР живем, а мыслишь по совковски - "пользя Родине"...польза Родине будет тогда, когда Родина обеспечит тебя нормальной жизнью, не обязательно богатой и не обязательно сытной, а справедливой и достойной, где слово "человек" не будет ассоциироваться со словом "мусор" или "материал".

Я уважаю слова Кеннеди на эту тему, но он явно не Узбекистан имел ввиду.

И потом, что такое Родина для тебя? Президент, парламент, министры, что?

Для меня, это, прежде всего, мои близкие, простой народ Узбекистана. Польза должна быть для них, потому что другая категория давно уже извлекла пользу для себя, не спрашивая нас с тобой.

[kipchak]

Вроде бы мы уже не в СССР живем, а мыслишь по совковски - "пользя Родине"...польза Родине будет тогда, когда Родина обеспечит тебя нормальной жизнью, не обязательно богатой и не обязательно сытной, а справедливой и достойной, где слово "человек" не будет ассоциироваться со словом "мусор" или "материал".

Я уважаю слова Кеннеди на эту тему, но он явно не Узбекистан имел ввиду.

И потом, что такое Родина для тебя? Президент, парламент, министры, что?

Для меня, это, прежде всего, мои близкие, простой народ Узбекистана. Польза должна быть для них, потому что другая категория давно уже извлекла пользу для себя, не спрашивая нас с тобой.



Мыслить по совковски - а что в этом зазорного или плохого.? ЛОгика должна быть предельно простой - как лучше для РОдины так и должны поступать.

Для Родины лучше конечно что бы ребята учились в школе а не гнули спины, но учитывая полный развал МТП особенно в селах, то лучше что бы ребята спину погнули, чем оставлять хлопок на гибель.

Я не защищаю правительство и не прикрываю их коррумпированность. Но как я говорил до этого надо хотеть и умет видеть положительные шаги. А они есть, очень мало но есть. А значит есть и надежда.

А понятие РОдина -каждый для себя сам решает, и акцентирует это чувство на чем то близком для себя. Но по любому, Родина и государство идут рука об руку, так что можно не любить гос.органы - но надо признать что без их существования не было бы и Родины.

мир вам

[antiSNOB]

June 17 - is the last working day of ACCELS in Tashkent.
All books, computers and even bookcases are getting away from the office. They will place in some of uzbek universities...

PS.Today I took TOEFL CBT

[antiSNOB]

Ulani conversationini eshitipqoldim. uzbek & americos. uzbek: my dean will very happy, if we'll take it to **** University...

[The Reaper]

Мыслить по совковски - а что в этом зазорного или плохого.? ЛОгика должна быть предельно простой - как лучше для РОдины так и должны поступать.

Для Родины лучше конечно что бы ребята учились в школе а не гнули спины, но учитывая полный развал МТП особенно в селах, то лучше что бы ребята спину погнули, чем оставлять хлопок на гибель.
А что же ты сидишь за компьютером? Или неуж-то беспроводный и-нет протянул в поле? :D
Я бы хотел чтобы ты ответил на мой вопрос - ТЫ СЕЙЧАС НА ПОЛЕ СОБИРАЕШЬ ХЛОПОК?

Меня всегда поражало двоедушие некоторых людей. В твоем случае ты мечешь молниями по поводу, того как непатриотичен и обленился народ, тогда как сам сидишь, я думаю, в уютной комнате с кондиционером на мягком кресле и полным холодильником!
Для Родины лучше не дети задаром гнущие спину на полях, а дети сидящие за учебниками!
У нас в стране официально введен рабский/детский труд! И это ты называешь прогрессом? Это позор, и как я понял, тебя с твоими понятиями о Родине это никак не смущает.

Я не защищаю правительство и не прикрываю их коррумпированность. Но как я говорил до этого надо хотеть и умет видеть положительные шаги. А они есть, очень мало но есть. А значит есть и надежда.
Скажи это дехканам о которых ты так печешься.
И о каких положительных шагах идет речь? Народ голодает!!

TR

[Alexandria]

Закрытие АКССЕЛС считаю грубой топорной политика государства, руководство которого все хочет подстроить под себя, не заботясь даже о среднесрочной перспективе своей молодежи :evil:
Что ждет молодое поколение узбекистанцев?
Для многих АКССЕЛС и ему подобные программы обмена и обучения давали путевку в жизнь молодежи. И эта путевка как испытание. И не надо винить американцев с их демократией или узбекское правительство, когда результат оставляет желать лучшего. Человек сломался бы в другой ситуации по - любому. Сильные духом выдерживают и никого не винят.
И согласитесь, господа - отсиживаясь дома, собирая хлопок, наши дети (ДЕТИ!) и студенты становятся рабами своего государства, круг их возможностей значительно сужается, даже информация до них доходит в последнюю очередь (если доходит). Какой позитив этого?
Следовательно, мышление в основном формируется необъективно, раз нету даже вторичных фактов для анализа и сравнения..
Я согласен, что во всем нужна умеренность и осторожность.. Но они не должны доходить до радикализма :rolleyes:

[Ulugbek_99]

I'm alumni'03...My exchange experience was one of the best things happend in my life.

I read all your posts and have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

You are very outspoken, don't you think that your experience through ACCELS somehow influenced that? You criticize the selection process and who deserves to be the finalist. Well, maybe they DID a big mistake in choosing you as a FLEX, because you are still in the states attending a university. Why don't you go back to Uzbekistan, and contribute your experience, knowledge and bla bla bla to your community, and country. Why won't you be an example to other FLEX students whom you think as of "undeserved" finalits? :?

Thanks.

Rosie,

I would love you to go back to my previous posts to figure out where I am taking my stance: pro-ACCELS, anti-ACCELS, or shades of gray. I am not color blind that will see black and white only.

I don't think they made a mistake chosing me as a finalist, but Allah knows best. Besides, I know how much I have given to my community in Kashkadarya in two years after FLEX.

I am thankful for the chance to study here. But I hadn't given up on Uzbekistan from the beginning. When my ticket to UWED was stolen at Academic Olympics, and when Bahrom Ismoilov himself admitted of wrongdoing to me personally, when the actual points were shown later (in the back room) but reported wrongfully to make a decision (you don't think I would perform 52% on English tests of Ahborotnoma, do you?), even at that time, I didn't give up. I didn't give up in August when I was failed from the entrance exams to UWED.
And good news for you: I will never give up on my UZBEKISTANIS, I will go as far as there is to go, Inshallah! (can't this be an example to anyone, including you?)

You don't sound indifferent. You don't know how much I am doing for UZB, but I would love to work with you and others when I am there. Your patriotizm would compliment mine. You questioned my patriotizm, check out the other threads I have been to.

PS: not in any place did I say that other alumni are unhappy, and you don't sound unhappy either, just little cranky and sarcastic.

Salam

[Ulugbek_99]

You are FLEX too, so, ask these questions yourself as well. Are you ever going to come back to Uzbekistan and give back, help, develop, share your experience, involve w/ your comminty and etc.? When? Hmmm... like when you retire? If you are already attending a university in the states, which is not cheap, after getting the degree are you coming back to Uzbekistan to make ... I don't work...I'm not sure (help me out guys)? I would personally meet you at the airport.

For your notice,

Education is not cheap, but I am paid to get education here. When I go back, I will only give back Inshallah.

I will PM you before I fly.

Salam.

[Unique]

sorry for interrupting your discussion, but I heard that Snejana visits forum. does anybody know her nickname??? Hi Snejana if you are here :D

[abcd]

Я лично рад что их закрыли не смотря на слезы и стенание тех кто уже проучился по этой программе, и не смотря на красивые лозунги типа "будущие лидеры, строители демократии и так далее" которые давно себя так измарали, что уже и читать их надоедает.

Есть конечно позитивные результаты от этой программы, но на мой взгляд негатива намного больше. И потом вопрос все таки - кому это выгодно, вернее кому это выгоднее - горстке подростков которые увидят мир, расширят кругозор и так далее, или для Штатов которые готовят своих будущих зондер - коммандер среди будущей национальной/местной интеллигенции как пятую колонну, которую они ох как хорошо умеют использовать.
There were two drawbacks of ACCELS. First, I couldn't get through. Second, kipchak couldn't get through.

[melo]

Damn ACCELS- they should just leave everyone alone. Who needs educational and cultural opportunities anyways. People are just being deprived of their Uzbek government provided education. I am sure students will just use the numerous other opportunities available for students in Uzbekistan. Rich people are the only ones who should go abroad anyways.

[melo]

atpaint,you sound like a drunk monkey.

Its called sarcasm- but if you know a drunk talking monkey let me know.:shock:

[melo]

actually flex is not that big deal, but if they close the student exchange....hmmm...that would be such a big mistake...i hope Im not giving them an idea:D

I think the student exchange would be closed by default. Who would be there to run it? :rolleyes:

[melo]

Gee, I guess I'm lying. :rolleyes:

TR

I wasn't calling you a liar- maybe just misinformed.

I received this email recently about hosting ACCELS students from Kyrgyzstan:


In order to be a host family, a family is asked to provide a place for
a student to sleep (a room or a bed in a shared room with a sibling of
the same sex), desk to study, three meals a day, possible
transportation to the school events, and a supportive atmosphere. The host family is
not paid for this, but they can get a $50/month tax deduction for
hosting. The student will receive a $125/month stipend for their own
purposes. The majority of the kids arrive during the month of August
(usually mid-Aug.). We would like to finalize host family arrangements
ASAP. We do have some last-minute placements every year, but in
general the difficulty in these is that the local school has a deadline for
enrolling foreign students, or has already fulfilled their quota of
exchange students. We try to avoid the unhappy situation in which we
have a family choose a student, they're ready to host, and then we find
out that the school won't take the student.

I would suggest that if someone is interested, they contact us as soon
as possible so that we can get in touch with their school and make sure
a spot is still available - then we can proceed from there. Sometimes
if the school says no at first, there are ways to get around that.

Also, a host family does not have to be a nuclear family with 1.2
kids. Our host families represent the diverse range of what it means
to be a family in America today. One note: if the host family is a single
parent family or the parents are a homesexual couple, the student must
agree to the placement.

[kipchak]

А что же ты сидишь за компьютером? Или неуж-то беспроводный и-нет протянул в поле? :D
Я бы хотел чтобы ты ответил на мой вопрос - ТЫ СЕЙЧАС НА ПОЛЕ СОБИРАЕШЬ ХЛОПОК?

Меня всегда поражало двоедушие некоторых людей. В твоем случае ты мечешь молниями по поводу, того как непатриотичен и обленился народ, тогда как сам сидишь, я думаю, в уютной комнате с кондиционером на мягком кресле и полным холодильником!
Для Родины лучше не дети задаром гнущие спину на полях, а дети сидящие за учебниками! ...
TR

1. Я не собираю хлопок, так же как и ты
2. Следуя твоей логике - хлопок надо просто оставить на поле, так как единственный трудовой ресурс - студенты, должны сидеть за учебниками?!!.. а кто убирать будет если нет никого? если МТП развалено, бабок нет на обновление и найм других трудовых ресурсов?!..
Я не говорю что это хорошо что студенты пашут - я говорю так надо, другого выхода пока нет!!

Насчет двоедушия - не думаю что ты достаточно узнал меня, что бы делать такие выводы.

[The Reaper]

1. Я не собираю хлопок, так же как и ты
2. Следуя твоей логике - хлопок надо просто оставить на поле, так как единственный трудовой ресурс - студенты, должны сидеть за учебниками?!!.. а кто убирать будет если нет никого? если МТП развалено, бабок нет на обновление и найм других трудовых ресурсов?!..
Я не говорю что это хорошо что студенты пашут - я говорю так надо, другого выхода пока нет!!
Проблема в том, что хлопковая промышленность коррумпирована до мозга костей. Менеджмент оставляет желать лучшего. Единственное предприятие которое работало на должном уровне - CASC, сейчас находится в полной попе, из-за того, что там имел свои интересы Санджар Умаров. А что касается МТБ, то деньги имеются, но они уходят в карманы чиновников хлопкопрома и МВЭС.

А в целом, аргумент насчет отсутствия денег не выдерживает никакой критики. Покупать новенькие мерседесы каждому пузатому министру деньги есть, но вот на покупку комбайнов - извините нет.
Их ведь надо понять - Опели и Супер Салоны негативно сказывались на их качестве работы. :rolleyes:

Это не просто проворовавшиеся чиновники - это беспредельщики ослепленные своей алчностью и безнаказанностью.

TR

[kipchak]

А в целом, аргумент насчет отсутствия денег не выдерживает никакой критики. Покупать новенькие мерседесы каждому пузатому министру деньги есть, но вот на покупку комбайнов - извините нет.
Их ведь надо понять - Опели и Супер Салоны негативно сказывались на их качестве работы. :rolleyes:

Это не просто проворовавшиеся чиновники - это беспредельщики ослепленные своей алчностью и безнаказанностью.
TR

Деньги как раз таки и отсутствуют из за причин которые ты указал. Полность согласен с тобой в этом плане. Мне лично кажется что стране нужен еще один Сталин, но это отдельная тема.

мир вам

[Delf]

если МТП развалено, бабок нет на обновление и найм других трудовых ресурсов?!..

Надо говорить кто именно развалил, а не "развалено". Про деньги тоже надо говорить кто конкретно распоряжается и несет ответственность. Или кишка тонка указать конкретно на людей кто несет прямую ответственность за состояние дел в стране?


Я не говорю что это хорошо что студенты пашут - я говорю так надо, другого выхода пока нет!!

Кому надо? Вам надо? Вот сами и собирайте тогда.
Почему это другого выхода нет? Это те кто делает на нынешней ситуации огромные бабки очень хотят чтобы все думали что другого выхода нет и что "так надо". Догадайтесь с трех раз кто эти люди.



Насчет двоедушия - не думаю что ты достаточно узнал меня, что бы делать такие выводы.

Насчет двуличности: если бы вы сами и ваши родственники от 7 до 70 собирали бы хлопок каждый сезон, еще можно было бы прислушаться к вашим словам, а так - действительно трудно поверить в откровенность.

Такое чувство что за ратуемыми здесь Кипчаком идеями стоят очень солидные дядьки в "тепленьких" креслах и с кругленькими счетами в зарубежных банках.


Delf.

[kipchak]

Delf - ну ты даешь млин..

1. Не надо меня учить как выражаться, и я тебе прощаю твой выпад насчет "кишка тонка"
2. Внимательнее читай мои посты - в развале МТП и так далее вина лежит на всей бюрократической номенклатуре.
3. Хочешь верь в мою откровенность хочешь нет- я тут с тобой брататься не собираюсь, и тем более хлеб не делю. И потом не надо быть математиком что бы знать 2+2. следуя твоей же логике тебе тоже не стоит верить, ведь и ты не гнешь спину на хлопковых полях, но тоже тут дискутируешь на эту тему, да?
4. И последнее ты не первый кто считает что я богатый дядька или иже с ним пребывающие и так далее и так далее. Тут еще один был который думал что мне платят за мои посты. Не смеши меня, если бы я был таким каким ты меня описываешь, то зачем мне здесь сидеть на форуме с пацанами общаться?!!..

Тем не менее я уважаю твой интеллект хотя не всегда согласен с тобой

Мир вам.