Zionists destroy the Al-Aqsa

[Pissed Off, Royally]

If Jews end up destroying Al-Aqsa, which they have been trying to do so for quite a while, what will you guys do? I am looking for opinions on this matter.

[stranger]

This is never going to happen.
if it does happen it will be the day of Apocalypsis.

However, we need to secure it from Jews.

Thank you
Stranger

[Lucky]

InshAllah we gonna do what a muslim is supposed to do," Establish peace and Justice among ourselves and them"

[nobody]

Assalomu Alaykum va Rahmatullohu va Baraqotuh!!!
I support all you opinions. But it does not solve the problem. We (i mean all Muslim world) should act againist these enemies of ALLAH (JJ). I am not telling about war or fight. Yes we should fight, but not with the guns or bombs. It doesnt benifit anybody. But unfortunately even one nation ( i am speaking about Arab nation) cannt act altogether.
There are a number of ways to fight againist them.
But most of the (actually almost all, with exception some) Muslim world are under the political colonisation of USA, which is the biggest Christian and Jews nation in the world.
But, i believe if all Muslim world will be together
we can solve any problem, without losing anything.
So we should pray to ALLAH (JJ) to join us and do our best to reach our common goals.

Assalomu Alaykum va Rahmatullohu va Barakotuh.

[O'zbek]

Pissed off, are you sure they will do it? Jews are not fool enough to create conflict.
However, if they do it backed by the US, and arabs will still keep silence, I won't be able to imagine about the prosperity of Islam.
Taliban, Usama and other guys can't do anything for the flourishment of Islam but they can manage and are managing to show it as the worst religion.
Opinions...

[Cute]

Agree.

[Freestyler]

As far as I know know, this mosque is sacred for jewish, too. So I don't think they are going to destroy it. Where did you find that information?

The conflict on the mosque arised because jewish did not allow muslim to pray with themsleves.

[Freestyler]

If they do destroy it, then it will be the Apocalypsis???
Very interesting.

[boyscout]

nobody don't get so emotional.
They are not enemies of ALLAH as you put it. The right way to say it will be enemies of Islam or muslims. But not ALLAH.
And then to everybody:
What if they do destroy Al-Aqsa? What can you do? What anybody can do?
My opiniion in this matter is whole islamic world only talks about unity (you are no exception), and they are just talks nothing more. We are like a pissed boy who was whipped by older one and murmuring to himself: if I was as big as him I could beat him". The point is this boy can never be older than the other boy, so he could never beat him. So do we.
So please stop this bulls*ting around and do some study/work, instead of wasting your time in here.

No offence intended.
Freestyler is right in his sarcasm :)
Before posting please watch your words guys. Some of you seem to be so uninformed about religion.

[nobody]

Freestyler>
You are very funny guy.Your words:
"As far as I know know, this mosque is sacred for jewish, too. "
Where did you get such kind information.I thought you to be very clever guy according to your previous massages. There is no funny word in the world than:
" The mosque is sacred for jewish". Do you think what about are you speaking for. You dont have even basic knowledge about Religions, i mean not only Islam, but others also.(no offence intended).
All religions have their own places to pray, i.e.
Mosque in Islam, Synagogs in Jews religion( i forgot what it is called), Church in Cristianty, and so on. But neither of them cannt be sacred or cant be acceptable in any 2 religions. The Jews WANT to DESTROY the Al-Aqsa MOSQUE and to build their own THIRD TEMPLE. And you say :"Where did you find that information?". I think when you watch news or any other programm, or read newspaper or books, you leave such a words "Mosque,
Church, Temple, Religion, Islam, Jews, Cristiancy"
and etc. Because you are not interested in. But i can (and much more other people)Hear, Watch and read this information everywhere.
But your last sentence even more funny than first one:"The conflict on the mosque arised because jewish did not allow muslim to pray with themsleves." Have you ever seen that Jews praying in Mosque, or the muslim praying in Synagogue?!
(no offence intended Freestyler)

boyscout.
I am not getting emotional. What did i said. I just said we should withstand to each other. Is it funny or emotional for you? I just told than the Muslim world should demand their rights also.
Is it emotional? I told that we should support each other in any case. What did i say emotional?
I think we have different views about emotions.
Anyway, your speak about little boy. Have you seen ever the American movie " The Champion". Starring Dolf Lungren. So here he is Olimpic champion on athletics. But, one day when he was walking on the street, three little boys make fun on him. They stole his typerecorder and made him fool. He cant do anything. But he was Big Man or the Olimpic Champion.
Let's go to reality. Do you know, at the beginning their were very few muslims in Makka. And they fought and won. By the Help of ALLAH (JJ). I know my words are funny to you. The people like you damn down the Muslims wishes and their deeds.
" What can we do? or What can you do?". This is the question they ask before doing or even before trying to do anything. I am not suggesting to beat that Big one. But we can claim our. That little boy , whom you speak about, will never be older than big one. But a day come that he will be stronger than him.
Of course, if we sit in our place and say "what can i do?", they continue to make fun of us, as they doing just now. If you dont want to fight your rights, so dont fight( i dont mean with guns).
And one more thing. According to your words you are not far better than Freestyler in Religious knowledge.(no offence intended)
And you say:"They are not enemies of ALLAH as you put it. The right way to say it will be enemies of Islam or muslims. But not ALLAH." What do you know about the enemies of ALLAH (JJ). They are going to destroy of the House of ALLAH (SWT). Are not they the enemies of God Almighty. Where is your Logics.
Or you think that ALLAH (JJ) supports the enemies of the Muslims??????. Islam is the way which God Almighty showed us. If somebody becomes the Enemy of this way, is nt it the enemy of HIM?! Where is your logics?
At last, people, who are here ,are not wasting time. They want to share what they know, and to learn from others. May be you had wastied your time here.
I always remember the poem (or bayt in Turkish) of great Uzbek( Turkish) poet Alisher Navoiy.
Although, everybody knows it, i'll give you(Freestyler and Boyscout) below to remind you.

Odami ersang demagil odamiy.
Oniki yok HALQ G'AMIYU DIN G'AMI.
(Nizomiddin Mir Alisher Navoiy).

I think what i intended to say,which did for me
Great Poet of all times Alisher Navoiy!

"Before posting please watch your words guys. Some of you seem to be so uninformed about religion."
Up until now, i haven't seen worse uninformed
guys than you are (Freestyler and Boyscout).
They post their words considering much more times.
Do you know such a feeling " Fear on God"? So, these guys know it.They know that everybody give account what they did say and what they had done.
Nobody accepts your words if even yourself dont do, what are you speaking. First you should
"watch your words" and " get to be informed about
religion". And then everything will be okay.
Sorry it was too long.
No offences intended to anybody.
And this was only my opinions.
All critics are wellcomed.

With respect to all
nobody( who had not wastied time here).

[boyscout]

To nobody
First of all I want to thank you for such a beautiful "report" concerning me, my knowledge and what I meant by my message. That was so informative that I could not stop discovering new "characteristics" of myself. Wonder how careful have you read my message and what parts have you really understood!

When I say emational I meant your these particular words: "Enemies of Allah"
Here is what I wrote:"nobody don't get so emotional.
They are not enemies of ALLAH as you put it. The right way to say it will be enemies of Islam or muslims. But not ALLAH."
And only this part. I think this statement is clear in its context. However for you I will explain my logic right after these messages(from the TV). I see your logic:" If somebody destroys my house then he is my enemy." Alright. They may be. But dear friend we are human beings. And when we use the term "enemy" we use it against those who are the same as us, i.e. other humans. Or for instance if a dog bites you, then by your logic you call the dog your enemy? Hm.. I don't think so. Animals can not be your or our enemies for they are inferior to us. By the same logic human beings can not be enemies of Allah because we are inferior to Lord. If we call somebody enemy of Allah then we are putting this person at the same level with our Creator (astag'firullah). Now I hope I have answered your question: "Where is your logic?"

For the rest I have no clue and information to judge you. And now after your "exucutive summary" about me I am wondering how emotional you are in reality. Nooov offence intended.:)

WOW. How often do you go to movies? ..Don't answer this question. :) I don't want to hear about other Dolph Lungren or Schwartsenegger movies or any other superhero movies. Don;t misunderstand me, this are good movies too, many people, you included, watch them(or else how they make money to make another that kind of movie, right? :) ). Anyway I am so delighted with your interpretation of my "little boy". Really amazing! Another point you misinterpret in your "memorandum." (Personally if you are business major, I am already sorry for the company that hires you nooov offence intented :) ). What I meant that we are, i.e. muslim world are not really power right now. As your superior knowledgability knows USA controls most of the key members of what we consider to be "islamic world". And they can whip our ass in whatever way they prefer. Unless you with your very rationale, analitical mind have not found any clue whatsoever how to fight such a superpower, I don't really see any point in posting such messages. Because as you know the words you have said are the world-wide known logos. They are words with no intention to get executed. And I personally do not take them serious, because I think this will only distract people.

I amnot going to write such an informative exucitive summary as yours, because I have no intend to do so. The only reason I replying to your post is that to show how mistaken you are (not about religion but me).

"According to your words you are not far better than Freestyler in Religious knowledge.(no offence intended)" Please!! How well do you know me or my knowledge about religion to say that? And in your essay about me and freestyler in many occasions you directly pointed you finger to us and yelled:" You are the kofur". I don't know about freestyler but I am for sure not a kofur. Only Allah is to judge who is kofur and who is not. And I know that I have to answer before him for what I did and nobody else. Then when I said "don't waste your time here" I meant instead of sitting and writing such words with empty meanings (I consider them empty because they don't lead to any actions or improvements in anyplace), you better do something in real world, if this is not an option study hard, expand your knowledge about earthly and heavenly subjects, become independent thinker, strong analizer when you still have your chance. Then you could play a significant role in helping whole muslim community.

Hmm.. I could write forever on this topic but I think if you still did not understand me than it is useless to continue.
I hope that this creative writing example of mine is convincing enough.

PS: "Or you think that ALLAH (JJ) supports the enemies of the Muslims??????"
Think about it yourself. If you are such well informed you should have the right answer for that one.

Cheers-shmeers :)
Again nooooooooooov offence intended (what a common statement, did anybody notice?)

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :(

The last quote:
"Sorry it was too long.
No offences intended to anybody.
And this was only my opinions.
All critics are wellcomed.
With respect to all
boyscout( who still had wastied time here).

[mustafa]

Bla bla bla.....

Ali G puts it blin blin baby...:)

Mustafa

[someone]

One time, a man called Abraha wanted to destroy Makkah. So he came to the city with a huge army, surroud it. But The All-Powerful One wanted something else. That day only a few amnog Abraha's army survived- to be lessons for others. It's for those who's forgotten history. Read Sura Al-Fil from Qur'an.

Cheers,
Someone.
As for so jews and all the other unbelivers they are just dead or will be dead. Every human being will enter the grave.

[Freestyler]

to <nobody>:

Firstly, thank you for thinking of me "to be very clever guy according to your previous massages".

Dal'she: I said "As far as I know...", and I did not claim that I was sure. And if you still want to judge my intelligence according to this, I cannot stop you.

I remember watching BBC news on Arab-Israel conflict. On the first days of the current conflict they were showing jewish people in Al-Aqsa praying and conducting their own rituals. Then they showed the outside doors guarded by Israeli troops, who were not letting the palestinians inside the Al-Aqsa.
Search for yourself before laughing at me and making funny conclusions.

You also asked: "Have you ever seen that Jews praying in Mosque, or the muslim praying in Synagogue?!"

No. But I know that the three religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam share common sacred places, for instance many places in Jerusalim are a place of worship for all three religions. Christians go for "polomnichestvo" (I don't know the english word for it) to Jerusalim each Christmas to pray and conduct their own rituals there.)

It is quite possible that Al-Aqsa is a mosque for muslims, and a Synagogue for the Jew. And it is quite possible that each group does not want to accept each other's praying places. Maybe that's why the Jew did not let the muslims enter the Al-aqsa?

Keep it sober
P.S.
From now on I've started to doubt your knowledge about religions.

No offence intended

[Freestyler]

<Someone>, I wonder if your lesson from history will work this time when the Jew indeed decide to destroy Al-Aqsa...

This is already a second view on what will happen if the Jew dare to do this (the first was about apocalypsis). Any other options?
==================================
<Misha>! Privet!

[nobody]

Hi boyscout and freestyler
I think i offended you. If it is so, i am sorry.
And i was emotional in some places.
But you still did not understand why i told these
words. Okay,then.My friendly advice to you boyscout
dont waste time here. It doesnt benefit anybody.(It is my FRIENDLY ADVICE, nothing more).
Freestyler, about BBC news. Next time watch and listen it carefully.(FRIENDLY ADVICE).
I am sorry one more time if i am offended you guys.

With respect to everybody
nobody.

[dictionary]

To freestyler
"polomnichestvo" (I don't know the english word for it) = pilgrimage

:):):):):):):):)
As always your sarcasms have no end :):):):):):):

[t-rex]

it seems that regligion is not enough now to unite muslims...
what united christians? common interest? what interest?
finally is there such a thing as muslim brotherhood? what does it mean?
anybody has the answers?

[Freestyler]

<Nobody>, your apologies are accepted ( and I am sincere).
Also I found some examples where Christians and Muslims prayed at the same place:
The mosque in the city I live now is former protestant church.
The AyaSofya in Istanbul used to be a Christian church before turks came and during the Ottoman Empire both Christians and Muslims were allowed to pray there.

<T-rex>, I could gie you a hint on what unites the Christians beside common religion. I wrote an essay last year that could be relevent to your question. You could research the works of Max Weber and his theory on global rationalisation and what Weber called "the Protestant ethic". If you're interested in my essay let me know and I'll send it to you.

Keep it Sober

[t-rex]

sure Freestyler, send it to trans4mator@yahoo.com

thanks in advance :)

[Lucky]

Freestyler- if you do not mind send it to uzhamza@hotmail.com, I wanna have a look at it,thank you.
Cheers:),

[Javanmard]

Hello everybody,

I have read all your posts with great interest....

Nobody:- I have read your message to Freestyler and boyscout. Its funny actually that you have not mentioned that the Arabs in Israel would have destroyed any synagogue that was important to the Jews years ago if they had the upper hand.

I live in an Arab country.....I know what they are like....Do not think of this conflict in Israel as a Muslim/Jew thing. It is a conflict between Arabs and Israelis only. Both parties will try to draw you into it to get your support but you should be a little wiser than that. If you think that the Israelis want to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque why have they not done it yet?? what is stopping them??? The huge Arab united front that has been formed between all the Arab states??

When Arab Iraq invaded Persian Iran all the Arab countries except the Shitte Lebanese backed Saddam. Is that also Jihhad. Because Iran is Shia and 90% of the Arabs are Sunni??? Some idiots will tell you this, some idiots will say we should all support the Palestinians against the evil Jews and throw them out of Israel....Before you do that though think about this.

There are 24 Arab states. How many have democracy??? There is one Israel that has full democracy with many different political parties.

How many leaders has Palestine had since the uprising?? One!! Yasser the Dozd (Vor) Arafat. The Israelis have had countless elected leaders.

I don't think you should worry about the Jews destroying Islam, but the Arabs destroying their own religion...

You see in the end the main problem is the Israelis just want to live in what they think is their own homeland. The Palestinians don't know what they want. If they have their own country it will be only the beginning of their problems.

[Student]

good points Javanmard:)

totally agree, this problem should not be our headache, let these arabs and jews solve problems their owns.

It's really pity some guys of us listen to religious guys trying to associate us with themselves saying you are muslim and jews your enemy etc. And Arafat is a former terrorist, now miserable old politician who has little control over palestinians.

And I think these guys trying to raise hate against jews claiming that jews will destroy their mosque, what's totally absurd; they try also to involve others to this problem.

So it's not our beer!

[Patriot]

Hey guys, what's wrong with you? Al-Aqsa belongs neither to Arabs nor to Jews. Moreover, it doesn't belong to Muslims as well. It belongs to All-Powerful One only. Don't forget it. As for political structure of the Midle East states- none of them has an islamic system, so I am too agreee with Javanmard that they system is not good. As for palestenian people, for the first they want to have a normail life. They don't care much about Great Palestenian State for example. They don't like Jews because they, jews, failled to provide any good attitude to people during their period of invasion. That's why, people don't like them there. Besides that, they refused to accept palestinian refugges to come back to they houses, but asked other jews to setle in Israil. Isn't it nationalizm, or nazism.
Think more before telling something.

Cheers,
Patriot.

[nobody]

Assalomu Alaykum va Rahmatullohu va Barakotuh.
First of all thank you Brother Patriot, for your true words. These guys have no idea about Muslim Brotherhood or that The Mosque is The House of ALLAH(JJ). They only think about their safety:"And I think these guys trying to raise hate against jews claiming that jews will destroy their mosque, what's totally absurd; they try also to involve others to this problem."
Javanmard , Have you EVER heard that Arabs(or Muslims)
in Israel have destroyed any synagogue? And we are speaking here not only about "simple"(for you) Mosque, nooooooooo, not at all. Do you know the history of this Mosque, do you know what does it for Muslim world
(may be you are out of the problems of Muslim world, fearing about your Safety). If you dont know, NO PROBLEM. But PLEASE, dont interrupt these "funny, idiot"( AS you and student thinks) guys. Nobody is going to involve you to this problem. Care about your
safety. "totally agree, this problem should not be our headache, let these arabs and jews solve problems their owns."(student)
Javanmard,i am not asking you about political system
of arabic contries. I know all what did you say.
May be you hate arabs. But i am ( and all other guys)
speaking about Muslims, and we have common problems with Muslim world as a whole. May be you can never understand such a things.And you(Javanmard) ask :
"If you think that the Israelis want to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque why have they not done it yet?? what is stopping them??? ". Why do you think that the Jews are not destroying Al-Aqsa Mosque? Have you ever heard that they build 3 - 4 big tonnels under the Mosque??? If you have any knowledge in seymology or architechture
you understand what does it mean. Anyway let me explain it. As a fact, this area is a seismologically active area, and with such a tonnel any building, it does not matter, is it Mosque or White House or Pentagon, will go down in a very little earthquake(may be 2-3 balls)!!! Or havent you heard that Jews burnt the Doors of the Mosque.
The Jews are not fool enough to create problem for themselves. They know what they are doing. The "wise"
guys like you think," oooo, it was old building and couldnt stand earthquake" or something like this.
And you really for this invanders? I think you dont know what it to be under invansion of others. You dont know the hurt , when others decide for you(espesially, when they are you enemies). Are you support this nazist nation? Do you know what is their ideology?
They want everybody to be their slaves, even you (of course,if you are not Jews yourself, which is quite possible, according to your words).And Student(who thinks himself a Professor of Political Sceinces) , as a student you should learn much more things before discussing something.Your words sound like the sounds coming from bazar. One word comes from Mountain, another from garden. These words only about how to make money or how to be safe.

Assalomu Alaykum va Rahmatullohu va Barakotuh.

with respect to everybody.
nobody.

[Javanmard]

Nobody Jon,

I see that you are concerned more about the fate of the Mosque than with the fate of the Palestinians. I agree!

The mosque is of importance to the muslims but because the Arabs are so pathetically divided their is no force in Jerusalem to protect it.

I am quite sure though that Jews will not do something as stupid as destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque. Israelis maybe greedy oppurtunists but they are not wild animals. It is possible that a Jewish extremeist group might try to do something like that but I doubt it.

Let me ask a question now. How many Synagouges are their in Arabestan???ie.Saudi Arabia??? None!!

What I am trying to tell you guys is that we Muslims are actually currently less tolerant than any other religion...I am Persian...Why am I Muslim??? Because 1500 years ago my ancestors were forced to become Muslim. I am not against Islam or anything, but I do believe that the old ways are gone. You guys have the fanatic Hizb ul Tahrir in your countries. These guys want to bring the Caliphate back!!! This means you will be ruled again by Arabs!!! What is this bullsh_t??? Other countries like in Europe, America, Japan, China, have all sent spaceships into Orbit and we want to act like 1500 years ago???

Enough is enough, we are already too far backwards.....enough screaming about Mosques and ancient cities that have nothing to do with us. My home town is near Shiraz, look how far it is from Jerusalem. You being from Uzbekistan live even farther away....Don't give yourself a headache with all this.....Don't believe all the junk Propaganda.

If you want to see what a real Islamic government is like go to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. Iran is not a real Islamic Government. It is believe it or not too modern. This is because we Persians had civilisation for 3000 years and not even Religion can hide it.

Go to vacation to one of these countries and then be the judge.

[Lucky]

I am just wondering if that shud not be your guys' headache why are you replying to this topic and makin' fun of the muslims? I thought no Nazists are left in Germany, as I see the Germans are raising couple of "Nazis" out of Umidies which is really "sad". It would be really surprising to see the Europeans and Americans worrying about the killings in Palestine and not to see our people just even not bothering about it. It would, really, sound silly if even an atheist said those words, 'cause I think, as many of us do, those who have been killed are humans not animals. Whatever name you call whether Arab or Jew they are human... As I see there are people who have double standard of equality when they talk about Democracy or other stuffs. "Javanmard"- Shame on you, you live in UAE and you hate the Arabs (which is quite obvious) and I think it has nothing to do with your nationality (which is persian)or faith (which could be atheism, shiit islam or Bahai faith). I swear by Allah (swt)if arabs killed the jews unjustly I would support the jews, basically I would demand Justice from both sides. When I came back, to my home university, the first thing I was asked by my Palestinian Brothers and Sisters was the safety in our country. They were worried about the uzbekistanis and informed me that they were making supplications to Allah(swt) after each prayer to give safety and peace to our people from the intruders. They were severly criticizing Namangani and all others for their wrongful actions in the name of Islam. Lastly, they showed to me their Condloescence and Grief to Uzbekistanis and our President through me about the 12 killed officers during the August events. This is called humanity and affection. I call that thing a dignity, love towards fellow humanity. I swear by Allah(swt) not even uzbekistanis showed their griefs to me about that thing when the deads names were mentioned. The people were laughing in the streets, the guys like me were enjoying their lives and not griefing except the deceaseds own parents and couple of kind hearted people. I was shocked to hear those words from somebody who have never been to Uzbekistan and having war in their own country (Palestine). That moment I could not control myself from weeping, the tears were coming all over my face. Yes, the officers were all at our ages like 22-25, they were young, eager to the life and seeking for their life partners. They also had "Hopes" and were themselves "hopes" of their parents like we are now. The same with the 300 and + killed Palestinians %40 of whom were under the age of 17 which means they can't be hold responsible to their actions according to the International Laws. They also were the "hopes" of their parents, who can deny it? And yet we have people here who are saying "this problem should not be our headache, let these arabs and jews solve problems their owns." And do not forget, Our Parents made the Problems for the Palestinians. With the Initiative and Support of USSR the new state Israel was established under the Decree of the UN (I do not wanna argue with any of you on this matter). Yes, those so called "terrorists" were trained in Ryazan (Former Soviet Union), "Hamas" was equipped by the tax payments of our parents. We sold the Arabs the Guns and Tanks and all other killing stuff. And know you saying it is their problem? We gotta pay for everything!!!
With grief and condolescence to the fellow humanity who are butchered like animals,
Griefs :(

[Javanmard]

Lucky,

Thanks for your reply. I am glad that you have at lease said what you think straight out.

Lucky, pls. understand that I don't hate anybody. Its just that I have no respect for people who act like fools and are never organised, never fair to themselves and always seem to be talking about wars they don't know how to win!!

Guys like you should not fool themselves. I am going to let you into a secret that only a few people want to believe about the problems in Israel. The secret is that their IS NO SOLUTION!!! NOBODY WILL EVER BE HAPPY WITH ANY TYPE OF AGREEMENT BECAUSE BOTH SIDES HAVE RIGHTS AND BOTH SIDES DON'T CARE ABOUT EACH OTHERS RIGHTS!!

Its just a headache we (non-Arab Muslims) don't need. We have our own problems. You are Umidies. Umid is a Persian word that means hope!! You are the hope of your country.....Let us Central Asians concentrate on our own problems.

[muslim]

If you have no faith or trust in God, then you are HOPE-less.
simple as that.

I find your statements that the battle for Al-Quds is only an "Arab" issue utterly revolting. Hateful dividers.

You guys are an example why the Muslim nations are dead last in the world. Nor have any of your nations have any progress whatsoever. With what Allah has given you guys, physically and spiritually and materially, you should have no trouble catching up and surpassing the rest of the world...

Ungrateful SOBs. Better off that you say openly that u are not muslim, at least we know who what side you are really on...

[Javanmard]

Hello Mahmud,

Back again I see....So what is your solution??? The unification of all "Muslim" countries....The formation of one huge Islamic Army, and the invasion of Israel. Ofcourse this will all be accompanied by some good "halal" rape and murder of Jews because they are our enemies and we are fighting a great "Jihhad" again!!!

Then what the "Muslims" will win and then we should establish a new Caliphate, in Al-Quds to rule over all the Muslim lands...

Are you forgetting that the Turkish people first came to the ranks of "Islam" as slaves!!! Only the fighting spirit and military superiority of the Turkish people threw off the chains and the Ottoman Turks eventually became the masters. My Persian people were invaded and our culture almost destroyed by a barbarian people..........and you want all that back again.

Save us all the trouble and go to Saudi Arabia yourself and become some Sheikhs maid......I think I speak for all intellegent Central Asians when I say, enough living somebody elses way. It is time we found our own cultural roots. We have a superior culture!! Wake up!!

[Cute]

Whassup guys, I really think that Javanmard is 100% right. You guys have one common name "Extremists"(well, i have right to say so, you had right to accuse of not being muslim) and that's it. Do you know why when religious topics are posted you can find only thyoughts of Lucky, arbUZik and etc(and they are same). You create bad atmosphere against islam.

[Freestyler]

To <Lucky>, <Nobody>, <Mahmud>:


The more I read your arguements the more I understand how wrong you are.
What I also don't like (although I know you wouldn't care) is that you all elevate the problems of arabs to the level of battle of religions and ideologies, mixing it with politics, thereby disapproving Islam in the eyes of less ambitious but still committed muslims. (<Cute> is one example).
I think you all would agree that politics is a dirty game. So please don't let religion mess with politics. In my understanding religion should be only between you and God (Allah)



Javanmard, your words make much more sense (again). I respect Islam but I also think it only reflects the cultural and spiritual values of arabs living more then a thousand years ago (which is why I did not accept it) And we should be careful to distinguish those things which contradict the modern world and our own cultures from those propogated by Arabs through Islam. We indeed have got many things that I'm sure are in many sense more superior, or at least more suitable for our own people.

<Cute>: The more correct word would be 'fundamentalists' and I'm sure they would not complain about this definition.
I would not call <Lucky> an 'extremist' (not sure for the others).

Ne opuskaysya tol'ko do togo, chtobi sudit' ih. Na skol'ko ya znayu, soglasno religii, sudyi - ne oni. Poetomu to, chto oni dumayut o tebe, igrayet malo roli.
Kak budto zdes' idyot sorevnovaniye za to, kogo bol'she lubit Allah!

[Lucky]

I am off this Game!!!! I gave damn to your caliphate, Arabs, extremism and all other stuff. It is better to be away from a prostitute and not involved in politics as the father of the proletariat, Lenin, said "Politika- ona prostitutka"(Politics is a prostitute)
Cheers :),

[Lucky]

Arguing with you is like arguing with a prostitute about the price of a night, neither side wanna give up... But I really do come to the common ground. For those who like to use the word "extremism"- i suggest you to look up in the dictionary and see if you match any of conditions;) and another advice read the new thread "shedding lights on extremism"
Cheers:)

[muslim]

Javanmard

You make it sound like Turks were toiling the land for the Arabs or something, or were meek little servants serving food to the Arabs.
WRONG. In Islam the term slave is a lot more different than in the West.

Just because Persia throughout history has been pimp-slapped by both Turks and Arabs, doesnt mean you have to go out of your way to divide us with such statements.

Turks and Arabs have always been equal copartners in Islam. Who was there to help the Turks drive Chinese out of Turkistan? The Arabs. Who were made the top generals and held other high positions in the Islamic world? Turks. Who readily accepted Islam, knowing that it the the truth, unlike the stubborn magians living in Persia? the Turks. The fact is, Arabs interfered very little with Turkistan and let Turks govern their ownselves for the most part. So no, we were not subservient, nor submissive to Arabs.

Arabs even didnt mind when the Ghaznevids took over the eastern half of the empire, and even encouraged them to expand. Ghaznevids in turn, though independent from the rest of the caliphate, dedicated themselves to the rest of the Ummah.

Your statements only serve to insult the intelligence and self-worth of my ancestors by calling them slaves and so forth. Turks are a whole lot smarter than you give us credit for.

Oh yea... and it was Salman al-FARSI who led the Arabs to conquer his own people... (stupid they were, in worshipping fire like hindus - those who remained stupid enough to resist Islam ran away to India so they could be united with their cow-worshipping Aryan cousins)....

So much for persian unity...heehee.

[muslim]

Oh yeah... you want independence of cultures?

Then I call upon all turks to stop celebrating Navruz, for it is a persian thang... and a throwback to their ancient fireworshipping multiple diety culture... there.

That will "purify" our respective cultures even more....

[Andrey]

About conflict: It is not just "an Arabic-Israel conflict" for at least two reasons:
for the first, Mosques are pure Islamic artribute, which doesn't belong to any particular nation. For example, have you ever heard about arabic mosque, or chinease one? Because that last stage of a war started with Ariel Sharon's visiting Al-Aqsa, from now & on, it is defenitly not just an Arabic-Jew conflict at all.
for the second, from general point of view, any conflict cannot be just the matter of some particular contries, involved in it, although, their opinion are of most important ones in resolving the conflict. I mean, for example, if neighbour is bitting his killing his wife, you cann't jsut tell yourself "It's their conflict, I don't care of it". The conflict is between them, but is not just their conflict. It is yours as well.

Besides it, Freestyler, you said: "I respect Islam but I also think it only reflects the cultural and spiritual values of arabs living more then a thousand years ago (which is why I did not accept it)".
Of course, it is your right to think what you want to. I cann't interfer in it. But it's well known fact that Islam proposed its own way to govern the countries, the whole world. "Is it a good way or very bad way"- it is another question. So I think this argument should be enough for your "...it only reflects the cultural and spiritual values of arabs....". Besides it, it Islam is not an religion of arabs and it doesn't make arabs superior above non-arabs. If it were intended to spread the arabic culture, God's Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) wouldn't tell the words "no arab is superior to non-arab" (here I've given only the meaning of that words. I don't know the precise words, which were in arabic of course). But the arabic nationalism was present in Ummayad's policy, which caused some harm to the rest of the world. [Moreover, I think "turkish nationalism" has something to do with Otaturk(means "farther of turks", i.e. "Turkbashi" in some languages. Pay also attention on what a name was chosen for him!), who needed this nationalism in order to replace idea of Islam and, to some extend, he reached his goal.]

I hope, arguments,I've given, is quite enough to prove that:
1. That conflict is not just Jew-Arabic one.
2. Islam is not a religion which was designed to propogate arabic culture and it is not a religion which consists of arabic traditions and thoughts. Rather, almost whole arabic culture, which had deep roots and was ugly, had changed under the influence of Islam. So did other cultures.

Regards,
Andrey.

[Javanmard]

Mahmud,

Did'nt I say a long time that I did not want to get into an argument with you??? You Rag-head loving, camel humper!!!

I will not bother arguing your ridiculous point. I'll just ask a few questions:

1) Why did the great Ataturk change the Turkish script?
2) Why did Iran throw out the Caliphate and declare them selves Shitte ie. hetrodox muslims??
3) Why DO people from all over Central Asia celebrate Novruz???

Maybe you don't like it but Uzbeks are according my encyclopaedia,

"Uzbeks today are the result of five centuries of intermingling between immigrant Turko-mongolian people and the indigenous Indo-European people. They have adopted the Turkic language, which distinguishes them from the Tajiks, decendants of the indigenous Indo-European population who have retained their Iranian language."

It is the Persian blood that makes an Uzbek an Uzbek and not a Turkomen or Uyghur.....Read it and weep, Mamdooh!! These are the facts....

By the way you are wrong!! The Arabs after conquering Iran used it as a stepping stone to capture Turkish slaves for hundreds of years (400 to be exact) because Turkish men were good soldiers and Turkish women were very pretty..........You can imagine. Only after the Turk population in Anatolia expanded, the Mamluks in Egypt revolted and the Ottomans came to power did the mantle of power change hands. You are saying the Arabs gave the Turks their "Permission" to to expand in the East. BullSh-t!!! For the last five hundred years the only powers in the Middle-east were the Ottomans(Turks) and the Safavids (persians).

You can call your masters back in the desert and tell them you can not bring anymore Turk/Persian girls for them...They have to make do with their own dogs...

[Cute]

Well Javanmard, i agree with most of your points. But I realised that we have some point which should be clear. "It is the Persian blood that makes an Uzbek an Uzbek and not a Turkomen or Uyghur.....Read it and weep, Mamdooh!! These are the facts...." NO IT IS UZBEK BLOOD THAT MAKES ME AN UZBEK. I'll clarify myself - as our history shows we have mixture of cultures and blood. So it is very stupid to discuss this point, that's why IT IS UZBEK BLOOD THAT MAKES ME AN UZBEK. And We are not Turkomen, we are turkiy, as well as uyg'urs, tatars, bashkirt's, qazaqs, turkmen's and kirgiz's and etc. But what I found that most of the people who argue about being turkish(central asia), is that they argue comparing TURKS in TURKEY. They are TURKS we ARE TURKIY. We don't feel that close as you might think, but it is known fact that TURKS moved from Central Asia, and they are also Turkiy. It is funny to say that they are turkiy, but I would mention that they are one member of that family members of which are called turkiy nations. Well it is you right not to like TURKS. Concerning the expansion of turks , I heard the same from my friend who is arab. But TURKS are selchukiy, this ethnic group didn't have much participation in formation of Uzbeks. But they are members of turkiy nations. I think I could clearly wrote my thoughts. But the most important thing is distinguish TURKS from TURKIYS. TURKS are know a big nation living in TURKEY.

[Cute]

Do you know that Turkey also celebrates NAVRUZ, in turkish it is NEVRUZ.

[Cute]

No offence intended.

[Shahzod]

Guys, please, stop disscusing nationalities. Because, anyway, all the nationalities are equal. Nobody has any fault if he was born jew, arab, persian or uzbek. So it doesn't matter much which nationality is yours. As for arabs, they conquered Central Asia in order to spread Islam, not to gain "girls" or something worldly. You, Javandmard, might have doubt if Islam is wrong or correct, but you cann't deny the fact that that people believed to this religion and followed it. And they had a fear of God. So that people wouldn't sacrifice their hereafter for the sake of this world. Again, you can argue if there is God or not, but you cann't deny the fact that they had a fear of Him, so they wouldn't do something for the sake of anything or anybody, exept God Almighty.
As for your questions, for the first I don't consider Ataturk to be great (in fact, he did nothing great), but I don't wanna discuss him, since he is already dead now, i.e. completely useless. As for his introducing of Latin script, I think, he wanted to change people's mind from religion, so that was one of his methods. As for Shiits, I don't know. I think when Iran, which was a very big and powerful Empire on that time, was conquered, national feeling of its inhabitants were hurt, and it resulted in their being Shia. As for how good the shia state is - you yourself can judge very easily.

Cheers.

[muslim]

Javannadanmard is just a hater...

He just can't deal with the fact that a PERSIAN leading the "ragheads" led the downfall of his ancestors idol-worshipping culture. Muhahahahahahahah

I bet you must be cursing Salman al-Farsi (may God be pleased with him)
your every living moment, arent you?

Hey, but good news for you! Your Aryan cousins in Hindustan are still more than willing to accept more of you so you guys can get together and wear that silly dot thang of yours smack on yer forehead alongside the swatstika and worship some cows together and afterward enjoy a nice refreshing drink of Cow-Urine.....mmmm mmmm..... hahahahahahahah..... there's ARYAN PRIDE FOR YOU!!!

[Student]

Dear Mahmud,

I really respect Turkomans, Turks, but i cannot stand any nationalism, so please don't get in pravate. Let's respect each-other free from national and religious backgrounds.

cheers

[nobody]

Assalomu Alaykum Dear Muslim Brothers!
WAHAHAHA. At last we won this discussion. Why? you ask. Look for young children. When one wins another one begins to call first one " you are unjustise, you won deciving me.You are lier(extremist)". Hahaha Cute! Dont come here if you cant prove your arguments. You Definetly KNOW that nobody is extremist here. And all of you(Cute, Freestyler, Javanmard, etc) call yourself
"Democrats". Yes you are "democrats" but not democrats in true meanning. If you cant keep you angry when you loose so go and take a bath. It really helps. Shame to all of you. And you call yourself better than extremists like Osama or Namanganiy? Ask your concinces. In our nation we have saying " knowing how to loose is itself bravety( which i have not seen any of you). Of course you will reply me "we have not lose, we won", knowing that you are lieing. And you call yourself Intelegence?!
Your called your opponets "extremists", "wild" or "idiots" and so on. Of course all of you have very "BIGGGGGGGGGG" knowledge of everything.
One of you cant differ Religion from nation(arab).
One thinks that Religion is a only culture or something like this. I told you Hundred time what does mean the arabic word "DEEN" .i am not going to say it again, because " yahshi otga bir qamchi,..." . One of you calls himself Muslim, but does know the primary obligations of Muslims.And Javanmard even living in islamic country, you have no true knowledge about religion. Who gave you right to call Turkish (Turkiy) people to call mixture of persians and mongolians. WAHAHAHA. You sound like our former "big brothers"-russians. They always taught us that Turkish people became from mongolians or something like this BS. Dont speak about history. Your are like boxer who teachs students Economics, knowing that all of his students at least have a Ph.D.degree on Economics. My friends told me that persian people are proud (remember Shaytan Alayhi la'na was also proud), but i had never believed them. The time teachs us to everything and shows all truth.I am not saying that persian people are shaytan. I want to tell that you Javanmard is very proud.( no offence intanded). And about Navroz. Cute even atheist bolshevics were wiser than you. Navroz was a Turkish Holiday before coming Islam.
And when we(Muslim Brothers) talk about Al-Aqsa Mosque all of you change topic to another way( arabs, turkish people or persians, extremists, Navroz, persian culture which was destroyed by arabs,and so on). Speak on the topic. If you cant
or you dont have any idea what is discussing here or knowledge relating to this discussion, PLEASE dont disturb us. We are not going to involve you to this problem, you stay safe, Nobody is going to force you to accept Islam, Not any of us. Please care about your safety, about your 3000 (or maybe more) years old culture, celebrate your Navroz, hate arabs, do your research about "uzbeks" who are "mixture of Proud Persians and wild Mongolians"(which is funny and foolish theory, very good anecdot, tell it to Mirza or Obid, they'll make very good programm on it), and so on.
Poor guys, why you came here if you dont have any idea about Islam. Even religious servants of Churchs have more knowledge than you. You dont believe!!! Because you proud does not allow you to do it. You guys better go to funny corner.
You dont believe me if i say : i know you better than your do. Is it funny? Yes, but i was guy like you are, who couldnt keep his emotions knowing "much more"(actually very little ) things.
I hated arabs, and i thought "Islam=arabs in 7th centure". i have knowen that i am muslim, but i had no idea what does the word muslim or Islam mean.
If you guys want to argue with me you are wellcome. But, PLEASE and one more time PLEASE speak with FACTS and not facts which you yourself created or which is created by atheists or by some proud historican , who thinks his nation to be the best in the world. And dont speak me arabs, i know them very well.
Hehe. You are like me in my school years. Cant accept the truth, because somebody told me this truth, not myself told it to him/her.
Some of you sound like our Uzbek TV and Radio.
They lie knowing that this is wrong AND knowing that all people listening it also know that it is Big BS.( no offence intended). hehe
As a last word one more Uzbek saying( which i couldnt translate into English):Aqlli odam ozini hatosidan organadi, dono odam birovnikidan.
Please, translate it into English for whom does nt understand Uzbek language ( The mixture of Persian and Mongolian languages).
See you in funny corner guys!!! hehe .

Assalomu Alaykum va Rahmatullohu va Barakotuh Dear
Muslim Brothers.

With respect to everybody
"extremist" nobody (i'll kill you, WAHAHA)

[Cute]

Hahaha, judayam tilingiz uzun chiqdiku janob "nobody". Iye ha avvalambor assalomu alaykum. Tag'in salom bermading deb yoqamdan ushlarsiz. Mani hayron qoldirgan narsa, siz ya'ni nobody, maktab yillaridan beri shakllantirgan o'z dunyoqarashingiz bilan ancha fahrlanar ekansiz. Chunki ikkita-uchta replyimdan kelib mani atheistga chiqarib qo'ydingiz, balkim agar atheistlik shunaqa tushunilsa bilasizmi o'sha Namangoniy va Tohir Yo'ldoshdan boshqa musulmon dunyoda bo'lmay qolardi (Hudo saqlasin). Undan keyin bu yerdagi yozilgan masalalar birovni yengishga yozilayotgan ekanda. Bu nima o'sha o'rta maktabdan keyin orttirgan hayotga dunyoqarashingizmi. O'sha o'rta maktabdan keyin beg'ubor aqlingiz shuni orttirdimi. Yana bir masala men qancha sizlarni yolg'onchi falon-pismadon dedimu, siz bitta replyingizda menga qancha shu taktikangizni qo'lladingiz. (Yutqizgan odam ko'proq qo'llaydi degan hulosa bor, yuqoridagi ulkan ma'no kasb etadigan gaplaringizdan keyin.) Manimcha ana o'sha yengib chiqish degan bilimingiz shuni taqozo qilsa kerak. Undan keyin men hech kim haqida aniq hech narsa bilmayman, men faqat yozilgan narsalardan hulosa chiqarishim mumkin. Extremist deganim esa ohirgi ikki hafta ichida o'nlab yozilgan fikrlar ichidan hulosa bo'ldi. Har bir yozgan narsamda kechirasizu men nimaga qarshi chiqqanimni aniq qilib ko'rsatganman. Fikrlarimni o'qigan odamlar, siz albatta o'qimagansiz, islom dinini kichik bir auditoriya oldida o'bro'sini tushurayapsiz deb yozganimni bilishadi. Lekin bu yozgan narsalarimga arbUZikdan boshqa hech kim javob bermadi, nima o'zingizni mukammal deb tushunasizmi, savob ish qilaman deb chappasini qilayapsilar demadimmi. O'zbekcha maqollarni keltirishni yahshi ko'rar ekansiz men ham bittasini aytay, albatta siznikichalik zo'r chiqmaydi baribir hannada okaginam " do'ppi kiygizaman deb ko'zini chiqaribdi" deganini eshitganmisiz. Siz umuman oldin hulosa qilishdan oldin ana o'sha yillar davomida shakllangan aqlingizni ishga solasizmi o'zi, yoki o'sha shakllangan aql shunaqa tez fikrlashni taqozo etadimi? Undan keyin bahsga chaqiribsiz, har doim yutib chiqar ekansiz, bizdaqa shakllanmagan insonlar bilan bahsni nima qilasiz janob? Undan keyin men sizdek zot bilan bahs ham qilganim yo'q faqat o'sha fikrimni ayttim, islom dinida uncha bilimi bo'lmagan insonlar tushunadigan, boshqacha fikrga ega bo'lgan insonlarni g'ururiga tegmaydigan qilib yozing dedim. Hatto menga chin ko'ngildan rahmat ham aytishdi. Albatta sizdek janobi oliydan bizga rahmatni kim qo'yibdi, uni ustiga har doim yutib chiqadigan odam bo'lsangiz. Ee okaginam madaniyat qani madaniyat, bizdaqa kichkinagina "intelligence"chalargayam sal qiyo boqib qo'ying qani nima deyapti buchalar degan ma'noda. Biz kichkina "atheist"chalar sizdek oliy va shakllangan zotlarga atheist deganimizda bizni umuman musulmonlardan chetga surib qo'yganingizda aytuvdik, bir yuqoriga borib o'qib ko'ring, undan tashqari siz tasavvur qiladigan g'alabalar maydonidagi(umid.uz) boshqa islom ila bog'liq fikrlarimni o'qib ko'ring, sizga keragi yo'q bularni, shunchaki deymanda. Kelgusidagi g'alabalaringizga omad tilab
Cute

P.S. Funny cornerga kelsak, bir kirib ko'ring qogan boardlargayam qani dunyoda nima bo'layapti ekan deb, ancha yordam berishi mumkin.

[nobody]

Wahaha Cute.
First of all, Not all of that ( i mean previous) massage is about you. And, after that, i didnt call you atheist. Third, where did you get the notion that i always win. Did i say it. Or you made you conclusion yourself (poor and very unlogic conclusion).
Hehe Cute.
It is not board to clerify our relations or something like this. Look to up and you see the topic. Hehe . Take a bath. It really helps.
Nobody did say you atheist. ( i see you cant read right, reading problems?)
Thanx for your advice.

Still "extremist" nobody.(Hehe)

[Lucky]

Assalam alaikum qadrli do'stlar.
Cute- uzr, so'rayman agarda ko'nglingizni og'rigan bo'lsam. Extremism maslalasi bo'yicha, meni ma'zur tutasizu, bunaqa go'zal nomga sazovor bo'lmasam kerek. Siz qatori bizarni bir ikkitasi, atheistga chiqarib qoyishuvdi, endi hafa bo'lmiysiz. Iltimos "shedding lights on extremism" ni o'qib chiqing. Fikringizga qo'shilaman, islom bizga o'xshagan, dinini tuzuk bilmaydigon muslimlar tufayli xor bo'layapti. Ilmimizni, ham dunyoviy ham diniy qirralarni o'tkirlashga astoydil niyat qilganmiz. Bizardan hafa bo'lmasangiz ma'qul bo'lardi, asosiysi niyatimiz holis. O'sha extremism kelib chiqmasin deb qilinayotgan harakatlar bu. Ma'lumingizkim, Extremism a) ilmsizlar b) Boshqalarning fikrini har doim hato deb g'ururga ketadigonlardan kelib chiqadi. Men haytim davomida islomiy extremistlardan kora ko'proq Demokrat va millatchi extremistlarni uchratdim, ular hech qachon murosa qilishni hohlashmaydilar. Hech bir insoniy, diniy va uxroviy qonunlarni ta'n olishmaydiku, ularning okaxonlari secularistlarning kasriga ikkita jahon urushini shu asrning o'zida boshdan kechirdik, hech bir Muslim Amiri yoki o'g'loni bunaqangi qonxo'rlikni qilmagan bo'lsa kerak.
Cheers:),

[muslim]

Student... Just look at what Javanmard said....

He is full of arrogance... he actually has the audacity to call another nation a bunch of "rag-heads" and sex-mongers...

He is pitting other groups against each other and putting Persia into everything, trying to make a point that either Persian culture is superior to everyone elses or that Persia owns the entire mideast and central asia...

Of course he doesnt say any trash about Uzbeks, because he doesnt have the balls to, because he knows that everyone will jump him...

One has to wonder though, what does he really believe in? I mean, he lives in an Arab country, and then talks shit about them over here. Thats kinda two-faced if you ask me...

[Cute]

Navruz haqida yozganimda Javanmardga qarshi chiqib yozudivdim janob. Bu bilan men o'zimni o'sha siz aytgan bolsheviklarchalik u-bu narsa bilaman demoqchiman. Undan keyin siz hamma muammolarni hammomga borish bilan hal qilasizmi? Hammom muammolaringizga boshqacha jilo berishi mumkin ehtiyot bo'ling. Nima bu wahaha hehehe, bath menga kerakmi yo sizgami? Bilmadim hammomdan qanaqa qoniqish hosil qilasiz. Mavzudan chetlashish esa bu meni aybim emas qoganlar nima yozsa shunga javob berdim. O'zingiz mavzudan ancha chetlashdingiz, menku boshqalarni yozgan narsasiga qarab javob yozdim, siz esa o'sha aytgan relationshipni o'rtaga tashlayapsiz. O'qish muammolariga kelsak, bilmadim, hammomda hal qilishga o'rganmaganman.
Omad

[nobody]

Cute.
Please use or create another board to discuss our relationship. Or somebody reading these massages can
think " Who is Al-Aqsa".

nobody( on the bathroom).Hehe.

P.S. Dont go so nervious, our nerve cells are not recoverable. Hehehe. ( bath helps people to calm down,to keep your nerve cells alive.so far you couldnt catch it.Hehe.)Have a good bath.

[Cute]

Uzr so'rashni keragi yo'q, Lucky
baribir men ham uzr so'rab qo'yay o'sha "extremism" uchun, lekin meni tushunmagan bir narsam bor. Aniq savol tashladim o'rtaga extremism haqida,bu yerda emas, boshqa mavzu edi. Javob deyarli shunaqa keldi "bu so'zni din dushmanlari o'ylab topgan deb o'ylamaysizmi" degan. Undan keyin yana so'radim "bu so'zni shubha ostiga qo'yayapsizmi" degan ma'noda , javob kelmadi. Ho'sh o'zingiz qanaqa fikrga borar edingiz shu vaziyatta. albatta men shu bilan ishonch hosil qilganim yo'q. Hammamiz bu yerda 1-2oydan beri kirib qolgan "mehmon"larni bilamiz, ular bilan o'zimiznikilarni, boshqacha fikrda bo'lgan o'zimiznikilarni ular bilan bir qatorga qo'yish, endi bilmadim qanaqa atash mumkin buni. "Hahaha Cute! Dont come here if you cant prove your arguments." Endi kechirasizu siz harakat qilayotgan da'vat qani, shu emasmi maqsadingiz, islomiy da'vat. Mengaku keragi yo'q da'vatni, lekin boshqacha fikrlda bo'lganlarga shunaqa munosabatta bo'lganingizdan keyin extremism so'zini ishlatish mumkin, uning to'gridan to'g'ri ma'nosida bo'lmasa ham. E'tibor bergan bo'lsangiz faqat bir hil odamlar qatnashadi shu mavzuga bog'liq narsalarda, sababini nimada deb o'ylaysiz?
Mayli baribir omad.

[Cute]

EE nobody bo'ldida endi yosh bolaga o'hshab davom etaverasizmi, pichinglaringiz nervous qildi deb o'ylasangiz adashasiz. Yozishni yahshi ko'radigan odamman, qaytangga mazza qildim, qiladigan ish ham yo'q uni ustiga. Bathroomdan chiqing cho'kib-po'kib ketmang tag'in, vatanimiz oldida 5 yillik hizmat burchingiz bor ahir. Anyway ;)

[Student]

Dear Mahmud,

I agree with your remarks about calling the hole nation 'rag head' or sex mangers, although in my opinion that was not the main point what he wanted to imply.

What I mean is that ideas should be discussed not personalities participating in discussion. I think this guy is pretty smart and contributes to our discussions with some intelligent points.

P.S. gotta commit, you right on the point about 'living in a country, and then talking shit about them over here.'

good luck

[boyscout]

ehhe heh.
WOW. Amazing. Astounding. What a mixture of emotions. No where else you can find such a perfect blend of everything that was, is and will be in this crazy world of ours. I am really shocked how many different ideas human mind can generate about just one issue. As i went through these endless numbers of posts I realized the trend which goes back and forth back and forth, getting down from general onto induviduals, and from individuals upto general.

I see different roles the guys play here.
Nobody: He is the overall judge or at least pretends to be.
Lucky : The only person who really sticks up to the point without any prejudice. I really respect that.
Cute : Non decided, does not know which party to follow. Seems to stick with the one who got good points according to her/him.
Freestyler: Analytic, just lets others know their weakest points, but what a pity the opposition does not care about his points, however if the problems presented by freestyler were thoroughly discussed and were given reasonable answers, it would have resolved most misunderstandings in here.
Javanmard: Good speaker, has a lot of excellent points, however a little pissed off at arabs.
Student: Agrees with whatever sounds reasonable to him. Likes to drink beer :) (call me next time u have some)
Mahmud Ghaznevi: Dislikes javanmard's propaganda. Presents really good points against the argument's of javanmard.

So that's my view who is who in this discussion section. Of course I omitted the guys who really did not have any points whatsoever.
Finally, as for me in my previous two posts I made my point clear. Right now I am not that passionate about the problems of the muslim world, my country, or even persia or whatever. What I mean by this I don't have enough power or say right now to change any of these problems, so what is the point in just discussing it when it seems nobody in here doesn't accept someone else's idea. There are groups among the people in here. And these groups do not give a sh*t to the other party's idea and stick up with their own idea.

The point of posting a message is to get people share the same beliefs and try to do sth. But the discussion with no ends and results is worthless.

That means my post is also is worthless because nobody will listen to my voice. I don't care I am just improving my writing skills as other people in here do. And i have about 30 minutes, i guessed it will be great idea just to spill some hot stuff into the discussion.

Cheers-shmeers to all.
Especially to javanmard: Your encyclopedia should be out of date I guess, at least for the meaning of word "uzbek". You are proud that you have a tradition of 3000 years. But we are no worse, some of our cities are more than 2500 years old. And remember that Amir Temur was the biggest power of his time. And in his time persia was enslaved(the term you like most) too. And I am sure I have no persian blood in me. If you are jealous about how beautiful uzbek girls are then don't worry, we will send bunch of uzbek guys so that your next generation will have a lot of beautiful girls. I am writing this as a response to your last post to Mahmud, because instead of just fighting him you are disgracing whole uzbek nation. I guess your problems with mahmud should not involve whole nation, should it?

Thank you for your patience.
Bye now. See you all in three or four days, or when I have extra time to waste.
:):) :)

[Lucky]

Boyscout- you are the MAN, dude. I have not laughed for a long time like this. If you wanna learn couple of tricks, I'll try to make it possible for you to meet Obid, no kiddin'. Thanks for your comments. As far as this one, you do not have to worry :"That means my post is also is worthless because nobody will listen to my voice. I don't care I am just improving my writing skills as other people in here do. And i have about 30 minutes, i guessed it will be great idea just to spill some hot stuff into the discussion."- it was not wortless, instead it was the best reply I have ever read, I am not exaggerating. Sincerly, I took a big lesson from this message. You made a bit harsh comments when you were a little bit sarcastic about "O'zbek qizlari" which made your reply even more worthy to read.
Keep up that Way. With respect and admiration, your friend...( by the way is that you Dilshod/ Sherzod?)
Cheers:),

[Lucky]

Hurmatlik do'stim Cute- javobingizni o'qib g'oyatda quvondim. Qilgan mulohazangiz juda ham o'rinlik wa joyiga tushgan.Cute-"Uzr so'rashni keragi yo'q, Luckybaribir men ham uzr so'rab qo'yay o'sha "extremism" uchun, lekin meni tushunmagan bir narsam bor. Aniq savol tashladim o'rtaga extremism haqida,bu yerda emas, boshqa mavzu edi. Javob deyarli shunaqa keldi "bu so'zni din dushmanlari o'ylab topgan deb o'ylamaysizmi" degan. Undan keyin yana so'radim "bu so'zni shubha ostiga qo'yayapsizmi" degan ma'noda , javob kelmadi. Ho'sh o'zingiz qanaqa fikrga borar edingiz shu vaziyatta. albatta men shu bilan ishonch hosil qilganim yo'q. Hammamiz bu yerda 1-2oydan beri kirib qolgan "mehmon"larni bilamiz, ular bilan o'zimiznikilarni, boshqacha fikrda bo'lgan o'zimiznikilarni ular bilan bir qatorga qo'yish, endi bilmadim qanaqa atash mumkin buni."- bunga javobim quyidagicha bo'ladi qadrlik do'stim. To'g'risini aytsam o'sha savollarni bergan paytingizda, men yoki band bo'lganman, yoki sizni to'g'ri tushunmgaman, yoki bu savolni menga atalmagan deb oylagandirman, endi ham wallahu alam. Ammo oylaymanki hali ham o'sha savollarga javob berish kech emas. Bu savolga javob bermoqchi bo'luvdim javobni Dr. Qaradawi qoyillatib qoygan ekan paste qila qolaman " Bigotry and intolerance of other views than one's own are a symptom of extremism, Al-Qaradawi writes. An extremist is "perpetually committed to excessiveness" and forces others to follow his lead. His expectations are "out of time and out of place", he overexpects from new muslims and newly committed muslims. He is very harsh in his treatment of people (such as arguing others are in kufr (disbelief) and crude in calling to Islam. He is very suspicious and distrustful of others contrary to the Islamic teachings in a way resembling how Iblis was suspicious of the first human. The author argues that much of the above can be linked to arrogance.

Al-Qaradawi explains that to overcome extremism muslims must understand the reasons as well as manifestations of it. He lists some of the causes and argues that no single cause is wholly responsible for the spread of extremism. They may be religious, political, social, economic, psychological, intellectual, or a combination of all of these. According to the author, extremism contradicts human nature and cannot be tolerated for too long. Although it has a short life, it jeopardizes other obligations and rights.

Al-Qaradawi carefully warns readers not to confuse extremism with simple observation of religious values such as covering hair or growing beard which are regarded by some rejectionists as signs of extremism.

Let us consider the following ahadith:
Beware of excessiveness in religion. [People] before you have perished as a result of [such] excessiveness. " The people referred to above are the people of other religions, especially Ahl al Kitab [the People of the Book]; Jews and Christians and mainly the Christians. The Qur'an addresses these people:
Say: O People of the Book! Exceed not in your religion the bounds [of what is proper], trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by who misled many, and strayed [themselves] from the even Way".
Muslims have therefore been warned not to follow in their steps: he who learns from the mistakes of others indeed lives a happier life. Furthermore, the reason behind the above hadith is to alert us to the fact that ghuluw(extremism in relgion) may crop up as an insignificant action which we then unwittingly allow to continue and develop into a menace"
with best wishes and regards,
Cheers:),

[Javanmard]

Everybody here (except Mamdooh and Nobody) I am very happy to meet a bunch of like minded young "Javan" exponents of the art of discussion.

I would like to say that no matter what anybody says you guys are my cultural brothers and no "Islamic extremeists" can convince me of otherwise. The Uyghurs are Turks, and are not per say my brothers but cousins....and being cousins they have the right to be free and have their own country, but not because they are Muslims but because they are Uyghurs. I hope you guys get my point. What I am trying to say in the end is that we have cultures older than a religion. I am not putting Islam down, only our cultures up!!! We are old peoples that should not forget that before any religion we had our own languages and people lived and died and fought and loved before that.....That is who I am.

Boyscout, I did not deserve your last stupid remark. I had not said anything to you....I did disrespect the whole Uzbek nation. Let me tell you another absolute truth. 5 years ago the country I live in now was over run with Uzbek prostitutes. I swear I am not lying. You can check with any Arab guy living in the middle East. I am not saying this to hurt your feelings. Just to say that what I told Mahdooh is the truth. That is all they want in the end.

I will ask one last thing of all you guys. First, let me explain that when I say that the People of Uzbekistan were Indo-European I do not mean Iranian. I mean a race closely RELATED to the Iranians. Turks are different. NOT INFERIOR MAHMUD, DON'T TWIST MY WORDS ANYMORE, JUST DIFFERENT.

If the Uzbeks are entirely not related to Persians, why do you have names like Rustam, Sohrab, Nariman??? All Persian names....Why is this board called Umid World??? Umid is a Persian word meaning Hope????

DON'T GET ME WRONG, I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE IRANIAN!!! I AM SAYING THAT WE ARE OBVIOUSLY RELATED. THATS IT!!!

[muslim]

whatever.

What I am trying to say in the end is that we have cultures older than a religion. I am not putting Islam down, only our cultures up!!! We are old peoples that should not forget that before any religion we had our own languages and people lived and died and fought and loved before that.....That is who I am.

Obviously every ethnic group is old, javanmard.....DUH......
And Islam is God's Message to mankind. If God is infinite and he comes before humans, then His Message is older than both cultures... therefore ALL cultures are subservient to ISLAM (submission to Allah)

Can't really argue with that logic, can ya?

Of course pride in one's culture will always remain, even in the best of the believers, however, they know since Allah is greater than them, they live with others as brothers, if only to seek the pleasure of Allah.

I really think that only real Islam will make Persians and Turks the best of friends, for trying to unify turks under the persian banner while making war on arabs will only get people ticked off.








This

[Javanmard]

Listen Mamdooh,

There you go twisting my words again so other ignorant guys will listen to your drivel.

Where did the Persian banner come from?? Who mentioned a Persian banner. As a matter of fact the only banner I can see is that stupid one that is in all your posts.

You will fool a few people but not all my friend. The plain truth is that Religion is not to be mixed in politics. Religion is between yourself and God. Nobody wants war with anybody. I AM JUST SAYING (AGAIN AND AGAIN) THAT WE MUST NOT FORGET OUR OWN CENTRAL ASIAN CULTURE!! YOU CAN WHERE WANT YOU WANT AND TALK HOW YOU WANT BUT THERE ARE REAL MEN OUT THERE WHO WANT TO BRING THEIR COUNTRIES FORWARD. No more living in the past.

I believe if all our countries work TOGETHER we can achieve something. You want a much wider family based on Religion. This is not a good idea.......This will take our national identities away.

Also, Mamdooh Bedouparast, if you have nothing constructive to say don't answer my posts. I am hear to discuss facts on an Intelligent level. I don't like insulting people and thats not why I am hear. Maybe this is how you and your Taliban friends like it but in the modern world people have manners.

[Lucky]

Javanmard- I really appreciate your replies. As you said, there is no need to call others with names, like "idiot", etc. As far as our cultural treasures and heritage, of course, we cherish and admire and learn from them. However, it seems you missed one point. Just wanted to let you know (I hope you gonna take your time and read them all): The day Islam gave a new concept of values and standards to mankind and showed the way to learn these values and standards, it also provided it with a new concept of human relationships. Islam came to return man to his Sustainer and to make His guidance the only source from which values and standards are to be obtained, as He is the Provider and Originator. All relationships ought to be based through Him, as we came into being through His will and shall return to Him. Islam came to establish only one relationship which binds men together in the sight of God, and if this relationship is firmly established, then all other relationships based on blood or other considerations become eliminated. "You will not find the people who believe in God and the Hereafter taking as allies the enemies of God and His Prophet, whether they be their fathers or sons or brothers or fellow tribesmen." (58:22) We know that the blood relationships between Muhammad-peace be on him-and his uncle Abu Lahab and his cousin "Amr bin Hisham (Abu Jahl) were broken due to their disbelief and that the Emigrants from Mecca were fighting against their families and relatives and were in the front lines of Badr, while on the other hand, their relations with the Helpers of Medina became strengthened on the basis of a common faith. They became like brothers, even more than blood relatives. This relationship established a new brotherhood of Muslims in which were included Arabs and non-Arabs. Suhaib from Rome and Bilal from Abyssinia and Salman from Persia were all brothers. There was no tribal partisanship among them. The pride of lineage was ended, the voice of nationalism was silenced, and the Messenger of God addressed them: "Get rid of these partisanships; these are foul things" and "He is not one of us who calls toward partisanship, who fights for partisanship, and who dies for partisanship." Islam freed all humanity from the ties of the earth, so that they might soar toward the skies and freed them from the chains of blood relationships-the biological chains-so that they might rise above the angels. Thus this partisanship-the partisanship of lineage-ended; and this slogan-the slogan of race-died; and this pride-the pride of nationality-vanished; and man's spirit soared to higher horizons, freed from the bondage of flesh and blood and the pride of soil and country. A Muslim has no relationship with his mother, father, brother, wife and other family members except through their relationship with the Creator, and then they are also joined through blood. "O mankind, remain conscious of your Sustainer, Who created you from one soul and created from it its mate, and from the two of them scattered a great many men and women. Remain conscious of God, from Whose authority you make demands, and reverence the wombs which bore." (4:1)
However, Divine relationship does not prohibit a Muslim from treating his parents with kindness and consideration, inspite of differences of belief, as long as they do not join the front lines of the enemies of Islam. In many places Allah (swt) mentions the parents right after His(swt) name. The whole point is, we put humanity above the blood relations. Our relationship is based on belief, not the race, colour, or nationality. Islaam has forbidden the calls of jaahiliyyah (the prelslaamic days of ignorance) and there are many textual evidences which forbid all of the characteristics and manners of jaahiliyyah and their actions, except those (good and decent) practices which Isl aam agreed to. And there is no doubt that the call to nationalism is from these calls of jaahiliyyah, since nationalism is a call to other than Islaam and an aiding of other than the truth. And how many ills, evils and serious wars has such calls of jaahiliyyah caused to their people, causing great harm to their souls, their wealth and their possessions. The consequences of such calls (for the Muslims) was a splitting up of their unity and a planting of enmity and hatred of each other in their hearts and a fragmentation and splitting between tribes and nations.
Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H) rahimahullaah said: "Everything which is outside the call of Islaam and the Qur'aan, with regards to lineage, land, nationality, schools of thoughts and ways, then it is from the calls of jaahiliyyah. lndeed, even when the Muhaa jirs (those Companions who migrated from Makkah to Madeenah) and the Ansaars (those Companions who aided and supported those who migrated) argued, such that one of the Muhaajirs said:" O Muhaajirs! (implying; rally to my aid) " And one of the Ansaar said: "O Ansaar!" Upon hearing this, the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "Is it with the calls of Jaahiliyyah that you call, and l am still amongst you!" And he became very angry at that."
And from the textual evidences pertaining to this issue is Allaah the Most High's saying:
"And stay in your homes and do not display yourselves, like the display of the times of jaahiliyyah (pre lslaamic ignorance). But establish the Prayer, give the Zakaat and obey Allaah and His Messenger. " [Soorah alAhzaab 33:33]
"When those who disbelieved placed in their hearts pride and arrogance the pride and arrogance of jaahiliyyah then Allaah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam and upon the Believers ..." [Soorah alFath 48 26].
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (partisanship and party s pirit), or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah." Also in Saheeh Muslim (8/120) the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: lndeed Allaah has revealed to me that you should have humility, and that no one should act proudly and oppressively over anyone else, nor should anyone boast over anyone else. "
And there is no doubt that the call to nationalism is a call to 'asabiyyah (partisanship and party spirit) and it is a call to becoming angry for the sake of 'asabiyyah and fighting for 'asabiyyah. And there is no doubt also, that the call to nationalism is a call to transgression, pride and arrogance, since nationalism is not a divinely revealed way of life which prevents its people from oppression and proud boasting. Rather it is an ideology from the time of jaahiliyyah which leads its people to boastin g about it and having 'asabiyyah for it even if they are the oppressors and the others are the oppressed ! So O noble reader consider this and the truth will be clear to you.
And from the textual evidences connected with this is what at-Tirmidhee relates from Allaah's Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam that he said: "Let people stop boasting about their forefathers who have died, who are merely fuel for the Hell Fire; or they will certainly be more insignificant with Allaah than the beetle which roles dung with its nose. Allaah has removed from you the party spirit of the days of jaahiliyyah and the boasting about one's forefathers. Indeed a person is either a pious Belie ver or a wretched sinner. All of mankind are the children of Aadaam, and Aadam was created from clay.[5]
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam also said: "Indeed there is no excellence for an arab over a non-arab, nor a non-arab over an arab, nor a white person over a black one, nor a black person over a white one, except through taqwaa (piety and obedie nce to Allaah) [6]
And this accords with Allaah the Most High's saying:
"O mankind! We have created you from male and female and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most noblest of you with Allaah is the one who has the most taqwaa." [Soorah al-Hujuraat 49:13].
So Allaah the One free from all defects- made clear in this noble aayah (verse) that people have been made into nations and tribes so that they may come to know each other, not that they should boast and have pride over one another. And Allaah the Most Hi gh considered the most noblest of them to be the one with the most piety and taqwaa. Likewise, the previously mentioned narration shows the same meaning, and guides to the fact that it is from the ways of jaahiliyyah to vainly boast and to have false prid e for one's fore fathers and ancestry. This is what the calls of jaahiliyyah lead to, whereas Islaam is in opposition to this. Rather Islaam calls to modesty, humility, taqwaa and to having love for the sake of Allaah, and that the true and sincere Muslim s are merely one of the categories of the children of Aadam 'alayhis salaam, and that the Muslims are a single body and a single structure; each part supporting the other and each part feeling the pain that the other parts are suffering as occurs in an a uth entic hadeeth (narration) from the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, that he said: "The Believer to the Believer is like a solid building, one part supports the other." And he interlaced his fingers to demonstrate this[7].
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam also said: "The example of the Believer in their mutual love and mercy is like the example of a body, if one part of the body feels pain, then all the body suffers in sleeplessness and fever. [8]
O people! I call to you in the name of Allaah. Does your nationalism call you to these noble manners of mercy and kindness to the Muslims the arabs and the non arabs and of having mutual sympathy and concern for them, and feeling pain at their pain? No by Allaah ! Rather it calls you to having allegiance with those who have evil character and it calls you to cultivating enmity and hatred for those who deny this false creed of nationalism . So beware, O Muslim who desires safety and salvation, and consider the reality of the affair with a fair consideration, without being prejudiced with party spirit and desires. Only then you will see the reality as it truly is. So may Allaah guide me and you to the means of safety and salvation.
And it is related by Imaam al-Bukhaaree in his Saheeh (8/137), that a young man from the Muhaajirs and a young man from the Ansaar quarreled. So the Muhaajir said: "O Muhaajirs! (meaning: rally to my help)" And the Ansaaree said: "O Ansaar'" So the Prophe t sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam heard this and said: ''Is it with the call off jaahiliyyah that you are calling out, and I am present amongst you !"
Even though the term Muhaajir and Ansaar are two ascriptions which are beloved to Allaah the One free from all defects and He has praised these two groups with a very great praise, in His the Most High's saying:
"And the first to embrace Islaam from the Muhaajirs and the Ansaar, and those who followed them in goodness, beliefs and actions. Allaah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens of Paradise, beneath w hich rivers flow, to live therein forever. That is the supreme achievement." [Soorah at-Tawbah 9:100].
Yet in the above incident, this ascription to the Muhaajirs and seeking the help from them, and the Ansaar and seeking the help from them, when the likes of this was considered to be from the calls of jaahiliyyah, then what about those who claim allegianc e to nationalism and seek help through that and become angry for that? Will this not be more fitting to be considered one of the calls from the days of jaahiliyyah? This is a matter in which there is no doubt, and it is one of the clearest of all matters.
And this is what has been established in the authentic hadeeth (narration), from alHaarith alAsh'aree radiallaahu 'anhu, that the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "I order you with five things which Allaah ordered me with: The Jamaa'ah, hearing , obeying, hijrah (migration) and jihaad in the way of Allaah the Mighty and Majestic. So whosoever separates from the Jamaaah by a handspan, throws the yoke of Islaam from his neck, unless he repents. And whosoever calls with the call of jaahiliyyah (the days of ignorance), then he is from the hoarded heap of Hell Fire" It was said: Even if he fasts and prays? He said: "Even if he fasts and prays. So call with the call of Allaah which Allaah gave: The Muslims, the Believers, Worshippers of Allaah.' [9]
This hadeeth is absolutely clear with regards to rendering futile the calls to nationalism. Its callers deserve that they should be from the heap of Hell Fire, even if they fast and they Pray and claim that they are Muslims. So what a severe threat and se vere warning is given here; warning every muslim from the calls of jaahiliyyah and warning them from entering into this even if such calls are adorned with false talks and enchanting speeches . Rather it is a deception and a blind following which leads it s people to the worst and most despicable of ends. And we ask Allaah for safety and freedom from that.
References :
1. Nuqdul-Qawniyyatul Arabiyyah (pp.39-44), slightly edited.
2. Majmoo ul-Fataawaa (3/456).
3. Related by al-Bukhaaree (8/137).
4. Related by Muslim in his Saheeh (6/21), from Abu Hurayrah radiallaahu anhu.
5. Hasan: Related by Abu Daawood (no.5116) and at-Tirmidhee (no.4233) from Abu Hurayrah radiallaabu anhu. It was authenticated by Ibn Taymiyyah in Kitaabul-lqtidaa (p.35).
6. Saheeh: Related by Ahmad (5/411) and it was authenticated by Ibn Taymiyyah in Kitaabul-lqtidaa (p.69).
7. Related by al-Bukhaaree (no.481) and Muslim (no.2585) from Abu Hurayrah radiallaabu anhu.
8. Related by al-Bukhaaree (no.6011) and Muslim (no.2586) from an-Nu'maan ibn Basheer radiallaahu anhu.
9. Saheeh: Related by at-Tirmidhee (nos.2863) and at-Tilyaalasee (no.1161) and others
Cheers:),

[muslim]

Javanmarg,

Islam IS AN ACTIVE RELIGION. A Musalman is to take part in politics also, and Islam dictates how politics is run also. Show me some proof that Islam is not supposed to be an active religion

Islam is not just limited just to a personal relationship with Allah. It is a community guide as well as as a personal guide as well as a spiritual guide. Islam has answers for everything and influences everything... From eating breakfast - to - boning your wife. Islam influences your every breath. If that is not the case, then you haven't even been fulfilling your personal duty to Allah.

[muslim]

Oh yeah, and Mr. manners?

one more thing to add

I AM JUST SAYING (AGAIN AND AGAIN) THAT WE MUST NOT FORGET OUR OWN CENTRAL ASIAN CULTURE!!

Has anyone forgotten there culture here? Does anyone considers themselves inferior to Arabs or others? yay or nay?

So you are just being redundant and boring. Find something meaningful to add to discussions, and quit labeling people extremist just because they are against primitive caveman like tribalism.

You say you want to go forward in life? Then fill your head with something else besides the Encyclopedia of Parthia, volumes 1 thru 24.

[Freestyler]

I vsyo taki vi ne pravi.

Ya vot tol'ko nadeyus chto rano ili pozdno, no vremya pokajet. (Konechno luchshe bilo bi yesli bi bilo poran'she, no uvi...)

A ved' ya znal chto spor etot ni k chemu horoshemu tak i ne privedyot!


<Lucky> Ti ved' oficial'no zayavil chto ne budesh' bol'she vmeshivat'sya v "prostitutku-politiku"?
A ved'sam ...

I ne smeyte bol'she prosit' uvajeniya so storoni drugih.

[Javanmard]

Your farsi is not bad at all Mamdooh!! You are the biggest armchair revolutionary I have ever seen. Tell me where do you live??? I would love to know.

I can just imagine you sitting outside a 7-11 sucking on a slurpy telling a bunch of idiots how you are gonna go to Afghanistan and be a man, and fight the evil Americans.

You make me sick with your lame tough talk!!! You don't fool me or anyone else.

To be honest I am here trying to make friends with young educated Uzbeks, trying to make contact with my cultural brothers. What are you doing. What do you expect everybody to leave their studies and go with you into China!!!ie. What is the point of all your arguing??

I just can't get it. There are no Pan-Islamists here. Most Pan-Islamists don't know how to use a computer!!! Even guys like lucky quoting Hadiths and what not. I bet he has a few playboy magizines under his bed JUST LIKE YOU!!!!

You don't fool me at all. enjoy your Slurpy!!! :)

[Misha+Kosolapiy]

Dear Freestyler,on 22 Jan 2001, at 11:04:18, Lucky wrote:
"I am off this Game!!!! I gave damn to your caliphate, Arabs, extremism and all other stuff. It is better to be away from a prostitute and not involved in politics as the father of the proletariat, Lenin, said "Politika- ona prostitutka"(Politics is a prostitute)
Cheers ,:)."

As you see, his message was a litle bit emotional he didn't tell that he wouldn't meddle in politics. May be he meant it by his "I am off this Game !!!!, may be not. Since he didn't say explicitly: "Guys, I decided not to medle in politics-prostitute" or something like that, you have no right to tell about it.
I mean, of course, if someone told something which looks like a promise, it's better for him to follow or to clarify it. But this is about Lucky. As for you, I think it was better for you not to blame him in not keeping promises, since he didn't promise or said it expilisitly.
Besides it, on this thread, he said nothing political after it, although you can find another article of his on another thread, which looks like a political one.

Cheers,
Misha Kosolapiy.

[muslim]

Whaaaaat?

I am a U.S. Citizen myself, ya idiot. And a LOYAL citizen of his adopted nation, which can't be said about you. Why you think its not possible to be Muslim and American at the same time? Tell that to the 6 million American Muslims living here, with many of converting to Islam on a daily basis.

Tough guy? When did I even threaten you? Unless Islam threatens you itself

Oh yeah, I definetely love slurpie, how did you guess? Nothing like an Ice cold coke slurpie to cool off on a hot day, mmmm mmmm. There is a 7-11 right across the street from the dorm, and since you reminded me of it, maybe i'll go and give my salaamz to the persian brother that works there while cooling off on an Ice cold slurpie.... Ill be thinking of you when I go sssssslllluurrrrp! Whaddya say, slurpie is some drink aint it? Hats off to the 7-11 corporation and the genius who came up with it!

[Lucky]

Freestyler- thanks a lot for comments, I really appreciate, BTW when you gonna send me your essay.You do not have to make an attachment if it is not wroking, just copy it and paste in hotmail inbox.
"I vsyo taki vi ne pravi."- i would love to know on what we are wrong, and was trying to guess my mistake for half an hour, if you do not mind give me a clue;)
"Ya vot tol'ko nadeyus chto rano ili pozdno, no vremya pokajet. (Konechno luchshe bilo bi yesli bi bilo poran'she, no uvi...)"- yeah, really good idea, but that would be really Great if you mentioned in what we failed to realize or understand so that we could figure out our mistake,;)...

As far as my "official decalration";)-"<Lucky> Ti ved' oficial'no zayavil chto ne budesh' bol'she vmeshivat'sya v "prostitutku-politiku"? A ved'sam ..."- make sense nice comment. Albiet, I misreperesnted my idea or you got it wrong, either of them is possible. To seak about politics does not mean to take part in or having busness with politics. What I tried to say was " I am off this game- meaning makin' a baseless argument and without any stop and respect towards others and at last cussing the participants of the discussion with "nice words"."
LOL--Javanmard ( is it Javanmarg or Javanmard?, correct me if I misspelled), you just got me the time you I started reading your message actually I was holding the septebmer edition of "Playboy" and watching nice "Sweden Babe", she was really cute and Hot,;).With respect and admiration yours sincerly,
Cheers;)

[Javanmard]

It is Javanmard Lucky, Mamdooh misspelled it on Purpose. Marg is Persian for Death as opposed to Mard which means Man. I bet this guy is half Persian and denying it because he wants aid money from the Wahabis...;) ha ha ha!!!

Enjoy the Swedish babe. I knew you guys were just normal dudes. Now you get what I am saying. You guys are not a bunch of rabid ragheads.....;)

Glad to hear it.........

[nobody]

Assalomu Alaykum Dear Brothers.
Lucky , thank you for your post with Ayats and Hadiths. My friend told me one day:" The soul of the Human beings is a like rice field.( I think everybody has an idea what looks like rice field).
If he/she doesnt hear/speak about Islam, Quran or Hadith his/her soul gets black and stink.( If you dont change the water in the rice field friquently to the new one, it gets dirty and it stinks, destroying all the rice field).
To all guys. All of this began what we think about Jews destroying of Al-Aqsa Mosque. But, we all went out of topic. I say my opinion and dont accept anybodies else, and so do all of you( dont say that you dont do it). I offend my oponents and they offend me. I show them my facts, they show me thier and so on. And no results. Nobody had changed his/her opinion. But vice verse, everybody is going to remain stronger in his/her position.
We discussed cultures, arabs and other nations, history and future, and much more things. But no one of them is related to the topic. I am quite sure that nobody wants to offend anyone else without any reason. And we make reason for it( to offend, insult each other). I cant accept the ideas or thoughts Freestyler or Javanmard or boyscout or Cute or somebody else. And so do THEY.
All of us ( maybe except somebody?) are fooling here. We all show that we have huge knowledge and anybody else doesnt know anything.
So, what about Al-Aqsa Mosque. Some dont want to join into this conflict, regarding their safety or anything else. Anyway, can anyone else tell me what conclusion we can make from this discussion about Jews destroying Al-Aqsa Mosque? PLEASE , dont fool again, it does not help any of us.
If some of you dont want to join to this conflict or care about their safety or think that it is only the problem of arabs,PLEASE dont post me answer. I already know your what you will say.
I respect your decisions and keep it for yourself.
I want Muslim Brothers, who thinks that we are all the same nation ( the nation of IBROHIM A.S, as Prophet SAW told) and feel the same feelings with palastinians or other Muslim Brothers, to tell me conclusion, which can we draw from what all was said above.
Sorry, if i offended somebody WITHOUT any reason.
Nobody is perfect in this world.

ASSALOMU ALAYKUM va RAHMATULLOHU va BARAKOTUH.

With respect
nobody.

P.S. I look forward to read your replys.

[muslim]

Well the G and the D letters are quite close to each other on the keyboard and all...... ;)

actually I do have a Pashtun great-grandmother... but so what? Lets say I do have Persian blood, then why would I hide it? Theres nothing wrong with being a Persian, as long they aren't the ethnocentric "master-race theory" type.

Haven't you understood one word so far in the 50 Kajillion posts of mine? ALL MEN ARE EQUAL!!! SO HOW THE HELL DOES IT MAKE ME A HATER??

Damn....

[Javanmard]

Hello Everybody,

PASTU's aren'nt Persian!!! But close enough!!!!

Thanks Nobody for putting us back on track. I still stick with my opinion that religion should not be the only uniting force behind closer relations in Central Asia.....

As far as the AL-Aqsa Mosque, I still think that we should stay out of it. I don't believe it is our place to interfere.

Like Mahmud said, we are all the children of Adam. Therefore, I do go against any people just because there religion differs from mine.

These people may be different, but they are certainly respectable and have acheived alot for themselves. I believe we can learn from them as a people about unity and striving for betterment of your own people.

[Javanmard]

Hello Everybody,

PASTU's aren'nt Persian!!! But close enough!!!!

Thanks Nobody for putting us back on track. I still stick with my opinion that religion should not be the only uniting force behind closer relations in Central Asia.....

As far as the AL-Aqsa Mosque, I still think that we should stay out of it. I don't believe it is our place to interfere. I am sorry but I still think it is a racial thing. I have nothing against the Palestinians but I am not going to spend money helping them when there are my own Tajik brothers starving on the northern Afghan border. I would help them out 10 times as fast!!!

Like Mahmud said, we are all the children of Adam. Therefore, I do not go against any people just because there religion differs from mine.

These people may be different, but they are certainly respectable and have acheived alot for themselves. I believe we can learn from them as a people about unity and striving for betterment of your own people.

[Cute]

Dear nobody,
Don't think that I'm trying to get of this topic, but as I read your messages you are talking about "safety". What safety are you talking about? I would really appreciate your answer. As I could see you always mention about this "safety", I think it would be a good idia to post another topic about this issue-safety. I think that this issue is quite interesting for you , as well as for me and may be others.
Thanx

[Javanmard]

I will explain it for you Cute,

The safety he is talking about is against the dangers of the evil Jews who want to destroy the powerful modern Islamic nation. They are afraid of us!!! They are afraid of our modern ideas and technology. They are afraid that everyone in the world will want what we have and because of jealousy try to destroy it. He thinks the reason we don't want to help fight the threat against the Al-Aqsa mosque (what threat???) is because we are afraid. We are not brave like him and his bearded illiterate brothers...we are not real fighters like him, sitting in his room with a big bag of Doritos writing his manly messages to fight!!!!

Fight while he watches Survivor 2 on the tube. ( I can't wait till that comes out!!!)

Sounds like a bunch of BullSh-t, does'nt it???

Take my advice all reasonable people. Work as hard as you can for your own countries. Pray to God but don't think Killing for him is right. It is'nt. These guys are living in the dark ages.

Nobody, get a grip on yourself. All your old sayings will not help me get a better job. All your Islamic rhetoric will not help my kids (if I ever have any) get an education as good and mind expanding as Kids in the west. All your calls to become one big Islamic family will not get rid of the dependancy of Central Asia (and the rest of the World!!) on Western technology and know how. (Whether directly or indirectly)

[Rake]

Javanmard,

good points. Totally agree with you.

Some people are still trying to use religion, believers to fight competitors because these people afraid to loose control over economic situation due to the lack of technology. Moreover, they will finish their oil resources very soon.

Definitely, every Muslim nation should unite, not to fight Jews, Christians and others,
but in order to develop cultural and economical exchanges.This world is too small to fight each other.

Believe me, if tomorrow all Jews, Christians will move to Mars, these extremist demagogues will make fight Sheits with Sunnites, then Arabs with non-Arabs,then Arabs from west with Arabs from east e.t.c.
All they need: influence and control.
Regards

Rake

[nobody]

Assalomu Alaykum.
Cute. The word "safety" which i used does not belong to me. Read all stuff from beginning and you will understand who speaks more about his safety. I have nothing to say you.(Sorry)
Javanmard and Rake. Where i told you or somebody else "kill them" or something like this. Show me.
You guys keep your emotions. If you dont like my words, no problem.But dont answer on behalf of me.
Or did i the same for you?
You guys very unjusty. I dont know how to speak with you. I used bad language, i used good language. I think you guys have reading problems.
You are master of insulting people. ( dont say you are not).What if, all Muslim nation unite? Is it bad? Or Do you think that all Muslims fool enough to create for themself headache? I am speaking to unite not to fight( with guns or bombs). Or not about to become one State. Where did i say "we should become one state"? Show me before crying so loudly. Look for the Europe. What they are doing.
They are uniting. Not to become one state.
Why do you hate other Muslim nations? Anyway, it is your problem, but think what are you writing before blaming somebody. Dont cry. Why you cry so loudly? Keep your emotions for yourself.
Where did i say i am brave? Javanmard, you defenitly have reading problems. Or may be your are daltonic. Who knows.
Javanmard, i dont care will you insult me or not, but dont insult my religion and Prophet (SAW)!!!
Or you dont confess it?
"We are not brave like him and his BEARDED illiterate brothers..."
Why did you call BREADED people illiterate?
Saying this you insulted whole Muslim nation and Prophet (SAW). Because Prophet (SAW) bid every Muslim to grow his beard. And you laugh out on one of the Sunnas of Prophet (SAW). Do you consider yourself wiser than whole Muslim nation, which is almost a billion people. May be you are much more wiser than me, but it does nt give you right to insult my religion and Prophet (SAW).
Good advice! I'll try to do my best.

nobody.

[Rake]

Nobody,

Please do not compare European countries, which are uniting on economical and technological basis, but definitely not on the basis of religion. And you know that this basis is much stronger than one of Muslim countries.

Probably, I can say that we (at least you and I) agreed that Muslim countries should unite in order to collaborate in the economical and cultural field, not to fight others, can’t I? So, there is no reason for misunderstanding and insults on this issue. Though I need to note that any Muslim country should not restrict itself to having relations with Muslim countries only.
Certainly, a cultural exchange with non-Muslim world will not be the same as a cultural exchange with Muslim countries. But in economy and technology field: I don’t see any difference.

But, let’s make a stress on this point and ask others if anybody disagree and think that Muslim countries should unite in order to fight non-Muslim countries like Israel, USA, e.t.c.
And I don’t mean here to fight their cultural expansion: but <<to fight (with guns or bombs)>>.

The reason of making this stress is to avoid further evasion. I think some people here are using mutual insult to mask and hide their real intentions.

Regards

Rake

[Javanmard]

Hi Everybody,

Nobody, where are you from. you sound like a Hizb ul Tahriri.....Is that true??

You don't have to tell where you live now, just where you are actually from.

Tks

[nobody]

Dear Rake.
You are right about economical relationship of Muslim countries with non-Muslim country. I support your ideas. The reason why i support that Muslim countries should unite is that, there are much more common things among us, our culture, our history, our level of development( not all countries) and so on. At least they are closer than among us and Developed countries. One more important thing is that our teritorial neibourghhood. I think it is logical we better cooperate with our neibourghs than Europe, WHEN our neibourghs can do something for us not less than or sometimes better then Europe or America.
I say only When there is no difference.
But i really dont understand one thing.Is your words about me?:"I think some people here are using mutual insult to mask and hide their real intentions."
If you are pointing me with your words, i say again i am not speaking about WAR. I cant say any more thing to you.

Javanmard. Nima balo eshakdan farqing yok. Echkini soqoli bolgani bilan baribir echki bolib qolaveradi ekan.Miyang tovuqni miyasidan farq kilmidiyu, yana bu erda baqiraverasan. Kamroq baqir, Gemmoroy bop qolasan. (Sog'likni Saqlash Vazirligi ogohlantiradi:Kop chiranib baqirish sog'ligingiz uchun zararli, gemmoroy bop qolishingiz mumkin).
Ha aytgancha, san Oliynasab Fors edingku, tushunmasang kerak bu gaplarimga. Zarari yok, san to'nkaga shuncha gapirdim Inglizchalab.Hech baloni tushunmading qovoq kalla, endi baloni tushunarmiding. Sanga Forscha tushuntirsam ham baribir to'nkaliging qolmaydi. Hayf sanga aytilgan shuncha gap. Rasullulloh (SAW) aytgan ekanlar:" Gapingizni eshitadigan ODAMga gapiringlar, bolmasa gapni uvoliga qolasizlar" deb. Nima Ingliz tilini organib , kompyuterda pechat qilishni organib ja aqlli bop qoldingmi. Ha orgildim sandaka " professor"dan. Agar totiqushni orgatsang sandan zor gapiradi Inglizchani . Maymun 1 yilda sandan zor pechat qiladigan boladi. Shularam ohirida " Alloh(JJ) o'zingga shukur" dep koyadi.
Qani zor bolsang gaplarimni tushunib ol. Yoki "past" O'bek tilini o'rganishga G'URURlari yol qoymidimi. Halol bahslashish k**ingdan kelmas ekan, chekkaga chikib tomosha qilib otir, mahkam qisib ***ingni. Sangayam yahshi, bizagayam yahshi.
Ozingni Olimlarni olimi hisoblaysanu, Afrikadagi yovoyyi havvonlarni kallasi etishadigan narsaga kallang etishmaydi. Afrikadagi yovvoyi hayvonlar
agar yov yaqinlashganini sezsa darrov birlashadi( hammasi mas, ayrim kuchliroklari, masalan bizonmi yoki shunaka shohli hayvonlar). Lekin Hech qaysi yovvoyi hayvon sher yoki yolbarsni pingiga tikilib olmaydi, "Mani qutqaradi bu, chunki hammadan kuchli, hammani engadi" deb. Chunki biladi, borsa tamom , hayot bilan vidolashib koyaveradi. San Humbuz( g'isht pishiradigan katta pechka) kalla shungayam aqling yetmaydi. Yo ozingni sher deb oylaysanmi.He ordak miya.
Borib bir toza havoni aylanib qaytsang bolmaydimi.
Tonka ozing "Javanmard" sozi kimlarga nisbatan ishlatilishini, ma'nosi nimaligini bilasanmi? To'nka bosangam rosa chirib, sassib ketgan tonka ekansanda. Bu erda baqirib otirganingcha, borib halqingga birorta foydali ish qisang bomidimi?
Yana "Rivojlangan Davlat" mish davlati. Eshak mashina haydashni organsayam baribir Eshak bop qolaveradi. He, kallavaram. Ichi puch yong'ok.
Nimaga sassigan piyozga ohshab hid tarqataverasan botta, odamni konglini aynitib. Toshingni terib kelsang boladiku kochaga chikib. Yo kresloga Kley bilan yopishtirib koyishipdimi? Hoynahoy shunaka bolsa kerak. Bir joyda otiraverib , miyang ( agar vobsheto bolsa) tormozlanib kopti.
Kelasi safar, agar mabodo biror narsani Discuss kimokchi bolsang, Yuvunib kel, sani hidingnan odamni kongli ayniydi.
He, o'l to'hka tushunmay.

nobody.

P.S. No offence intended.

[Rake]

Dear Nobody,

I understand your position much btter now.

The one great concern of mine is that there are some people on this site who would like Uzbekistan to be involved in the different kind of "help missions to our Muslim brothers".I don't have anything against one Muslim helping other,the same as any man helping other one.
But let's take one example about helping Uygur brothers.
How far should we help them? I think it should not be something like Pakistan support Talibans.We all understand that Uygurs have hard times,
but whatever situation is we have to admit borders as they are and accept integrity of China ( in this case). If we will not do this we will have greater problem than Taliban's. By the way we have our own problems to fix: border conflicts with Kirgizstan, Tadjikstan, Turkmenistan. Any nation in the world must learn to survive.
I think that any nation has own internal problems which preclude them to prosper. For example,though Uzbekistan is independent, at the same time Uzbek people are not independent from internal stupidty and bureaucracy which is the main reason of our problems. So Uzbeks, Uygurs and any nation should first of all unite itself, get rid off obstacles inside, do not blame neihbours, non-Muslims,russians,chinese,americans, whoever else...There are a lot things to say, but,unfortunately, no time.

Regards

Rake

[Alouddin]

cute discussions... anyone wanna carry on?..

[Guardian]

Power is the money, money is the power ...

Almost Everything that are being distroyed and build are for the sake of money (aka power).