UZBEK TILIM!

[hafa bulgan LAWYER]

Osbek yahshi masala kutargan.
man bu yil yengilardan. Man Toshkentda urtoqlarim bilan faqat uzbekcha gaplashmaymiz(ruscha ham) lekin u boshqa muhit. Bizza nima uchun bu yurtlarda yurganimizni sabablaridan biri biz international studentlar orqali Uzbekistonni tanitishimiz kerak. Shunday paytlar buladi imkoning yoq. Misol LAWdan asosiy adabiyotlar rus tilida bu exception albatta.
Chatda "Uzbek tili manga noqulayroq" davay porusski desa man qani shu uzbek yigitcha yoki qizaloq oldimda bulib qolsa deyman. BIZZA ZARAFSHONDA DISCOTEKADA YURGANIMIZ YOQ AHIR VATANIMIZDAN UZOQDAMIZ. DISCUSSIONDAGI RUSCHA CHIQISHLARCHI. MAN HAMMA NARSANI TUSHUNAMAN LEKIN QABUL QILA OLMAYMAN NIMAGA BUNAQA BULISHING KERAK. "MUSTAFA" BU SANGA TEGISHLI EMAS BU UZBEK HALQINI PULIGA KELIB UQIYOTGAN VA UZBEKCHA YOZISH ULAR UCHUN NOQULAY BULGAN umidchi"BRATAN" VA "QIZALOQ"LARGA. YAHSHI BULARDI ULAR UMIDNI MANAVIYAT DEGAN TURINI ESGA OLIB BU ERDA UQISHLARINI MOLIYAVIY OMILLARINI UYLASHSA HADEB "I AM LUCKY" DEMASDAN. BU ALBATTA HAMMAGA TEGISHLI EMAS. MANI PROSTA CHATGA KIRSAM BAZAN RUSCHA CHIQISHLARNI KURIB JAHLIM CHIQVOTTI.
BU AYNIQSA "CHAYHANCHIK"LARGA HAM TEGISHLI TUGRI ULAR BULMAGANDA BU NET BULMASDI LEKIN SAVOB ISHNI OHIRIGACHA QILINGLAR ILTIMOS. BU MANI FIKRIM HOLOS. QARAB BOQINGLAR BU BANKDA BULSA MAN TUSHUNAMAN SISTEMA DEB, MIN.DA BULSA TUSHUNAMAN SISTEMA DEB, ZARAFSHONDA DISCODA BULSA TUSHUNAMAN MUHIT DEB ADABIYOT BULSA TUSHUNAMAN LEKIN CHATDA ,DISCUSSIONDA 99% HAMMANG BILASANLAR UZBEKCHANI UZBEKCHA CHIQISH QILGIN.

SAN BILAN MAN UZBEKNI KELAJAKDAGI ZIYOLI QATLAMIMIZKU!!!!!!!!!!! AGAR BIR BIRIMIZ BILAN UZ TILIMIZDA GAPLASHISH NOQULAY BULSA SAN BU TABAQA NOMUNOSIBSAN!
SAN QILMASANG MAN QILMASAM KIM QILADI MANGA AYTGIN?

[johny]

-SAN QILMASANG MAN QILMASAM KIM QILADI MANGA AYTGIN?

Yangi sog'lom avlod qiladi :) , tashvish qima, bundan ham battar bo'lishi mumkin ediku???

[Sanjar]

ALBATTA, BUNDAN HAM BATTAR BO'LISHI MUMKIN EDIKU: QO'YLAR INGLIZCHA MAARAYDIGAN, MOLLAR RUSCHA MO'O'RAYDIGAN, XO'ROZ YAPONCHA QICHQIRADIGAN, MUSICHA ITALYANCHA MUKU-KULAYDIGAN bo'lishi mumkin ediku... :) :) :)

(albatta xazil)

SJ

[Cute]

Hazil hazil bilanku, lekin manam yangilardanman va 100% qo'shilaman Lawyerni gapiga. Ingliz tilida gapirsak bilimimiz yakhshilanadi degan gap absurd. Shuncha o'qib ingliz tili yakhshilanmadimi haliyam? Undan keyin man umuman shovinistik ruhda emasman, ba'zilarni aytishiga qaraganda, albatta bu gap manga tegishli emas ediyu baribir. Qo'limizdan kesayu ruscha - inglizcha gaplashsak. Qo'yselachi bo'magan gappi, chet mamlakatga kelib eng katta zararim, manga ma'naviyatdan o'tishda katta qo'l kelgan o'zbek adabiy nutqimmi yo'qotishim havfi bo'ladi shekilli. Bizada bu muammo yo'q dersilar, bu masaladan qochish bo'ladi. Mayli sog' bo'lila

[Bratan]

Hurmatli HAFA BULGAN LAWYER!

Avvlambor juda ham muhim mavzuni kutaribsiz, bu tahsinga sazovor ish. Lekin, menimcha bu yerda ba'zi bir narsalarni ham nazarda tutish kerak. Bilmadim o'z hatingizda "BU UZBEK HALQINI PULIGA KELIB UQIYOTGAN VA UZBEKCHA YOZISH ULAR UCHUN NOQULAY BULGAN umidchi"BRATAN" VA "QIZALOQ"LARGA." deb kimlarni nazarda tutayapsiz. Bordiyu "Bratan" deb tahallusga ishora qilayotgan bulsangiz adashasiz. Chunki bu bor yo'gi tahallus holos. Bu nickli shaxs Umid saytida shu tahallus bilan tanilgan bo'lsa, nima uchun uni o'zgartirishi kerak? Qolaversa tahallusga qarab shaxs haqida noto'g'ri fikrga borish turgan bitgani aqlsizlik bo'lardi. Agar men ham shunday qiladigan bo'lsam, sizni "HAFA BO'LGAN LAWYER" tahallusingizdan o'z tilini qadrini bilmaydigan ingliz tilida tahallus (ya`ni lawyer - huquqshunos) tanlabdi desam qanchalik noto'g'i bo'lishini mendan yahshiroq tushunsangiz kerak. Lekin men sizning bu mavzudagi fikrlaringizni hurmat qilganim uchun ham niyat qilamanki, siz "bratan" deb nickka ishora qilmagansiz. Va kelgusida biror kimsani nickiga ishora qilmoqchi bo'lsangiz, iltimos, o'z fikrlaringizni aniqroq qilib o'tsangiz bu borada.

O'qishlaringiz omad tilab qoluvchi,

Bratan.

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

Cute man ham san(siz)ga uhshab uylayman. mani fikrimni qulaganingiz uchun rahmat Haqiqatdan bu ketishda umidchilarga mikrofon berishsa ooooo, oooooooooo dan nari utolmay qoladi yoki sekingina DJ Piligrim(ILHOMJON)ga uhshab mojno po-ruski deydi.

[Soloh]

Lawyer fikriga 99% qo'shilaman.
Tilimiz rivoj topsagina halqimiz, bizdan keyingilar ham rivoj topadi.
Bir tilimiz tarihiga nazar tashlash kifoya deb o'ylayman.
Biz kelejakning bir bo'lagi.
Sizlarga omad va saodat,
Soloh.

[Samarqand]

Va nihoyat bu muammoning tag-tubiga yetib borib tushunganlaringdan hursandman. Buning uchun, albatta, 'Hafa bo'lgan Lawyer' ogaynimizning yozuviga rahmat, endi sal 'cheer up lawyer' bulgin.
Hurmat ila
Samarqand

[O'zbek]

SAN QILMASANG MAN QILMASAM KIM QILADI MANGA AYTGIN?
Johny aytibdi, kelajak avlod qiladi. Qaysi kelajak avlod ? Qaysi biri? Biz hali qarib qolmadik-ku, qo'limizdan hech narsa kelmasa shunaqa desa bo'ladi.
To'g'ri, bundan battar bo'lishi mumkin edi agar o'zbeklar atigi 1 mln yoki 2 mln bo'lganda, O'zbekistonda qariyb 18 mln o'zbek yashaydi(boshqa davlatlarda ham jami 5 mlncha bor), bu Markaziy Osiyodagi eng katta millat.
Keyin, o'z-o'zidan echimini topishi uchun hech yo'g'i UMIDCHILAR ( yaqin kelajak ziyolilari)o'zbek tilini o'rniga qo'ysa edi.
Boshqa millatdan bo'lishsa ham o'rgansin davlat tilini.
Menimcha USda yoki UKda oqiyotgan, rus tilini zo'r deb, o'zbek tili ravnaqi uchun ayrim qarashlarni shovinizm deydigan ayrimlari o'zlarini osongina "I am Russian" deb qo'ya qolsa kerak, chunki O'zbekistonni ko'pchilik bilishmaydiku. Familiya ham o'hshash ...ov yoki ...ev.

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

"BRATAN"ga

"Bratan" man "bratan" va "Qizaloq" deb yozganimda sizni aslo nazarda tutganim yoq! Noaniqlik uchun uzr!!! man nickni emas uzbekcha gapirishni noqulay hissoblaydigan "OKAHON"larni nazarda tutganman!
Mani tushundingiz deb umid qilaman va noaniqlik uchun uzr surayman.

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

UZBEKni fikriga qushilaman. biz hali qariganiz yoq aksincha faoliyatni boshlash arafasidamiz.
Umidchilar hammaga ma'lum hozir uzbekistonda juda katta nufuz va hurmatga ega. Yani uzbek tilida tashviqot bilan chiqsa juda kup yoshlarimiz deyarli uzlariga qoida sifatida qabul qilishadi.
Baribir biz urnak bulishimiz va bu uchun kurashishimiz kerak.

[mustafa]

Hafa bol'gan Lawyer:

A chto esli ya skaju, mne na Hu* ne nujen tvoi grant (ili grant tvoego Presidenta), ya chas gotov poehat domoi ostaviv vse pozadi? (dont ask why did I take it)

I eche ti znaesh kak financiruetsya Umid? Skolko nashe Pravitelstvo plotit za nas, net?

well think about it

Mustafa

[Cute]

Manimcha mustafa noto'g'ri tushunibdi. Huddi bitta odamga hujum qilingandek bo'lib ko'rinayapti. Lekin man umuman bu akamizzi misol qilmagan bo'lardim.
Hotya hammamiz ham na *uy deyishimiz mumkindir, pulni ham qayerdan kelayotganligini bilamiz. Ho'sh nima qibdi man masalan fahrlanaman kimlarnidir ma'lum maqsadini ko'tarib yurganimga....

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

MUSTAFA san bilsang u gapingni hamma aytaoladi. biroq man ongli dustlarimga discussion orqali murojat qilganman sanga uhshagan ahmoqlarga emas. HOHLAGAN NARSANGNI HOHLAGAN JOYINGA YOZAVER! HOHLASANG EMAILIMNI BERAMAN UNGA HAM YOZAVER>
Sanga uhshaganlar tiqilib yotibdi bu dunyoda bu hatolarni tugrilash mani ishim emas mani Maqsadim UZBEKISTONni iqtidorli yoshlari bilan man uchun qiziq tuyilgan va hatoga uhshab kurinvotgan masalarni discuss qilish san bilan sukinishish emas mahluqqa uhshab!

[JUST]

O'zbek va "hafa bulgan LAWYER"

Togri buni tan olish kerak bazi umidchilar uchun prioritet uzbek tili emas balki rus yoki ingliz tili bolib qolgan.

Haqiqatdan ham umidchilar katta nufuzga ega, va ertaga bu nufuz yana ham oshadi. agar bizning safimizdan chiqqan kelajakda katta ishlarda ishlaydiganlar koproq rus tilida gaplashishsa, bu uzbek tilining mavqeining kotarilishini ancha tohtatadi.

10-15 yillardan keyin ham rus tili adabiyotlardan foydalansak, ofislarda haliyam ish rus tilida oborilsa, armiyada ham komandalar rus tilida berilishi davom etsa va hk, yahshi ish bomidi albatta. :(

Shuning uchun biz - umidchilar imkoni boricha uzbek tilimizga hurmat bilan qarasak, uni ishlatishni rus tiliga nisbatan afzalroq korsak, tilimizning rivojlanishiga oz hissamizni qoshgan bolardik.

Lekin ingliz tili bu boshqa masala. ingliz tili Hindlar va Pokistonliklar uchun oz tillarini rivojlantirishi uchun tosqinlik qilishi mumkin, Uzbekiston uchun esa bunday havfni faqat rus tili tugdiradi. (rus tiliga qarshi emasman - judayam yahshi til uzi)

Shu DBda va chatda bazan ingliz tilini ishlatsak zarar bolmasa kerak. Cute , ingliz tilini etarlicha organib kelganmiz deysiz - man uzim, unchalik zor organib kelmaganman, hali ancha tajriba orttirishim kerak. agar shotta koproq oz fikrimni ingliz tilida ifoda qilishga harakat qilsam ancha yordam beradi deb oyliman.

bu mani fikrim holos, hech qanday shovinistik niyatda yozganim yoq.;)




endi, hafa bolgan LAWYER, sizga bittamas ikta maslahatim bor edi:

1) hafa bolmang:), LAWYERlar hafa bomidi:)

2) fikrizni izhor qivotganda hayajonlanmang, ortiqcha hayajon va emotsialar har hil oqibatlarga olib kelishi mumkin, masalan Bratan va Mustafaning javoblari.


JUST

P.S. UZUN REPLY YOZMIMAN DEB VADA QILGANDIM UZIMGA, KECHIRASILAR BUNISI UZUN BOB KETIBDI.

[Cute]

Man ingliz tilini ishlatish o'zbek tiliga halaqit beradi deganim yo'q. Undan keyin ingliz tilini yakhshi o'rganib keldik bu yerga deganim ham yo'q. Man bu gapni bizani akalaga etuvdim, bizga bo'lsa to'g'ri foyda bo'ladi. Lekin 2-3 yil o'qiganlarga manimcha oddiy DB ingliz tilini rivojlantiradi deyish kulgili. Umuman olganda savol qaysi tlda yozilsa shu tilda javob bergan yakhshi. Lekin savol bergan odam o'zbek tilini yakhshi bila turib...

[Sanjar]

Cute,

Sizda princip "non-finito" juda yaxshi rivojlangan ekan! ;)

Take care.
SJ

[hafa bolmagan inson]

Qanday yahshi,
o'zbek tili masalasi kotarilganda, hamma nimagadir faqatgina ozbekcha javob beradi. Ahir bu MESSAGE BOARDda ajoyibot va garoyibot-ku!
Bundan oldingi va keyingi mavzularga bir nazar solsak, nima koramiz: ozbek, rus, ingliz va "umbounamgama" tillarining chatishmasiga nazarimiz tushadi.
Yahshimi, yahshimasmi, qancha tortishmaylik, lekin bu - haqiqat. Unchalik achchiq emas, menimcha. U tildami, bu tildami har holda talabalar orasida communication bor (uzr men ham ozbek tilini yahshi bilmayman), bir birimiz b-n har hil mavzularda suhbat olib boramiz, insonni u til egasi, yoki bu til egasi deb turtkilamaymiz.
Lekin shu tolerantlik kelajakda mumkinmikan?
Ba'zi bir davlatlarda til, millat , din bahonasi b-n urush bayroqlari kotariladi. Ozbekistonda hozircha tinchlik (hudoga shukr), lekin keyinchalik bu holat qanday oqibatlarni yetaklar kelar ekan?

[Kinoya]

Ko'pchilikni gapi to'g'ri, lekin men Message Boardda ba'zan o'zbekcha yozishga uyalaman. Boshqalar ruscha, inglizcha yozsa, men lohga o'xshab o'zbekcha yozamanmi ? Mlya, I know someting in english, dude, deb, koroche yozib tashlayman. Keyin har-hil inglichcha NICKnamelar qanday cool. O'zbekcha nick nick bo'ptimi ? Undan tashqari shuncha yil chet elda o'qib, yana shuncha yil rus maktabida o'qib, o'zbekcha yozish uyat emasmi. Qanaqadir odam o'zini krutoy his qiladi ruscha yoki inglichcha gapirsa. Lekin real lifeda inglizcha gapirib bo'lmaydi o'zbeklar bilan to improve your english. Mas. roommating oz'bek bo'lsa. Nima qilasan inglizcha gapirib, rus tili bilan o'zbek tili turganda. Faqat MBda yozish kerak. Writing skills are more valuable than your speaking or listening skills.
choyhona chatda umuman o'zbekcha mumkin emas. Krutoymisan, ruscha yoki inglizcha gapir. ok. iight, how r u, c u, take care, qanday jaranglaydi.
Hech bo'lmaganda o'zbekcha yozganda ham bitta ikkita inglizcha so'z qoshishga harakat qilaman. Zo'r chiqadida...

[Cute]

LAWYER ko'targan masala, turli tuman fikrlarga boy bo'ldi. Qo'llab quvvatlaganla jumladan, man bitta narsani aniq ko'rsatishni hohlagandim, lawyerni o'zi ham. Mana yuqoridagi kinoya hatini o'qib ko'ring. "lekin men Message Boardda ba'zan o'zbekcha yozishga uyalaman". Mana sizga tirik misol, ee og'ayni uyalsen bo'q yeb o'zbekman deb yuribsanmi? "Boshqalar ruscha, inglizcha yozsa, men lohga o'xshab o'zbekcha yozamanmi ?" - bundan kelib chiqdi biz LOH ekanmizda? Sen aytayotgan "loh"lar inglizchaniyam, ruschaniyam yakhshi bilishadi."Undan tashqari shuncha yil chet elda o'qib, yana shuncha yil rus maktabida o'qib, o'zbekcha yozish uyat emasmi. " - Manimcha og'ayni yo san umidchimassan yo sani adashib tanlashgan, bu atmosferaga umuman gaplaring to'g'ri kelmayapti. Agar sanga uyat bo'sa shu narsa, yurganakanmizda o'zbekman deb ko'ksimizga urib... "Krutoymisan, ruscha yoki inglizcha gapir. ok. iight, how r u, c u, take care, qanday jaranglaydi." Hahaha, ee biza tanlab olingan bolla bo'se, oramizda ingliz va rus tilini bilib o'zini "krutoy" deb yurganlayam borakan, yosh bolani gapi bu gap, "krutoy" og'ayni nimagadir yana bir bor ishonch hosil qildim bu atmosferadan emasligingga. Undan keyin uyalsen umuman o'zbek tilida yozma, o'zbek tilini bilmaydiganlar ham "uyalaman" degani yo'q. Biza bilmasek bo'ldi shunaqala borligini, undan ko'ra "krutoy" bo'lib yuravergin, omad.

[Kinoya]

Cute, menimcha tushinmovchilik bo'lganga o'xshaydi.
Agar meni ismimga qarasang, 'Kinoya' deb yozilgan. Men yuqorida keltirilgan o'zbek tili haqidagi mulohazalarga qo'shilaman va ularga qo'shimcha sifatida, bu fikrga qo'shilmaydiganlarga kesatiq ohangida o'z fikrimni bildirgan edim. Gap borku, "Kosa tagi nimkosa", degan.
Ko'pchilik O'zbekistonliklar MBda o'zbek tilida yozmasliklarini har hil izohlashadi. Men ana shu izohlarni kesatib ko'rsatishga harakat qildim.
Cute, kelasi safar tez hulosa chiqarib, odamni shaxsiyatiga hujum qilishdan oldin yozilgan gapni aniq tushinganingga ishonch hosil qilib keyin yoz.

Omad.

[Cute]

Avvalambor, uzr haqiqattan tushunmovchilik kelib chiqibdi. Lekin Kinoyadan boshqa narsa yo'q edi, clue bo'ladigan. "Ko'pchilikni gapi to'g'ri, lekin men Message Boardda ba'zan o'zbekcha yozishga uyalaman" - birinchi gapiz shunaqa boshlangandan keyin nima deb o'ylayman, undan keyin HOST/IP ni nimaga yashirdiz, shundan keyin yozdim, mayli yana bir bor uzr.

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

Kinoya va Cute!
SALOM sizlarga RAMAZON bilan tabriklayman va bir birlaringizni kechirishlaringizni surayman!
Cuteni tushunaman Kinoya man ham birinchi Nickga qaramasdan tutashni boshlayotgan edim keyin tushunib qoldim!
SOG bulila sizlarga hamisha omad yor bulsin!(TAKE CARE (KINOYA):)

[Qichiq!!!]

Unday bunday deymizu, lekin mana shu til orqali biz dunyoni kurdik, yani bizda hayot qanaligini kuz oldingizga keltiring, ruslar bosib olishidan oldin. Hech qanaqa narsani halq bilmasdi, kim nima desa urra deganmiz, ushani orqasidan ketganmiz. 1-2ta dunyoga tanilgan va bizni hozir yashayotgan muhitdan chiqqan olimlarni tilga olib fahrlanamiz. Ularni paymon qilgan uzimiz emasmi? Yani usha odamlar uylab topgan nazariyalarni dinga qarshi deb yoki bulmasa kimgadir yahshi kurinish uchun qilganlar uzimizdan chiqqmaganmikin?:)
Biz mana shu til orqali kup narsaga erishdik, va kup narsalarni yuq qildik. bunga nafaqat material narsalarni nazarda tutayapman, yani oltinimizni olib ketilishi, yoki ruslarni ba'zi zavodlarni bizda qurlishi balki ongli faoliyatda ham juda kup ugarishlar ruy berdi. Uґnga misollar juda kup: Halqni boshqacha fikr qilishi, rus tili orqali fanni erish olнnmagan chuqqilarni erishishimiz va hozirgi kunda uzimizni yuqotib quyganligimmiz, yani ruslar bosib olishidan oldin bizda yani Turkistonda halq uzaro tushunishgan, aloqada bulishgan hoh tojik hoh qozoq bulsin. Undan tashqari bizda din shu darajada yuqotilganki hozirgi kunda biz uzimizni musulmon deymizu ammo chuchqa gushtini yeymiz, yoki oddiy musulmonchilik qoidalarini qilmaymiz (man ham shunaqa). Endi usha musulmonchilik qoidalarini qilayotgan aka-ukalarmiz ham hozirgi hayot qoidalarida chiqib kelingan holda fikr qilishmaydi, yani biri musulmon daavlat quraman deydi, 2-si jannatga tushunaman deb 3-sini uldiradi.
Endi tarihni kovlasak hozir dustimiz bulgan halq, oldin umuman bizga qarshi dushman bulgan, ushaning uchun tarihdan foidalo taraflarini olib qolganini tashlash kerak.
Hozirgi kunda Uzbekistondagi rus halqi bizni hayotimizni tumanliligiga sabachi: Ushaning uchun ruschada gaplashgan bolalarga ham havas bilan qarash kerak, yani ular 1 chet tilini bilishadi, kuchada gaplashsa nima qilibdi- ba'zilar tilini rivopjlantirish uchun gaplashadi, ba'zilar esa uzini intelegent qilib kursatish uchun, bu narsa shahsni uziga havola, yani shahs erkinligi. Endi Uzbekistonda uzbekcha gaplashish kerak ekan deb tushunilsa juda katta hato buladi, chunki biz hozirgi kunda halqlararo munosabatlarni rivojlantirayapmiz, agar shunaqa qilsak bunga sharoitlarni yaratib berishimiz kerak...
Hullas hoh ruscha, hoh uzbekcha buni endi hech qachon manimcha chegaralab bulmaydi, agar shunday qilsak boshqalar bundan foydalanadi, yani hozirgi kundan katta havf bulgan Hizbu tahrir a'zolari...;)
Nima bulganda ham bu mani fikrim

[Cosmopolitan]

Stidno prisoedinyatsya k takomu bessmislennomu sporu, no promolchat trudno…. S odnoy storoni lawyer, kotoriy pozorit odnoimennuyu professiyu, s drugoy storoni te, kotorie emu poddakivayut. Lawyer, kakaya tebe raznica, kto na kakom yazike govorit na chate. Ili voobshe kakaya raznica, kto na kakom yazike govorit? Samoe glavnoe chto bi lyudi ponimali drug druga. Russkiy yazik – hochesh ti etogo ili net, ostanetsya yazikom mejdunarodnogo obsheniya (odin iz rabochih yazikov OON). To chto mi ego znaem - eto bolshoy plus I gordost dlya nas. Lawyer govorit chto “UZBEK HALQINI PULIGA KELIB UQIYOTGAN VA UZBEKCHA YOZISH ULAR UCHUN NOQULAY BULGAN umidchi” Ne nado zabivat, chto narod Uzbekistana sostoit iz 130 drugih nacionalnostey – I platyat oni tak je kak I drugie.
Odin horoshiy primer. V takoy razvitoy strane kak Gollandiya, lyudi govoryat mejdu soboy na neskolkih yazikah. So mnoy uchilis troe Dutch students – tak vot – mejdu soboy oni govorili tolko na angliyskom. Esli nasha molodyoj tipa Lawyera I Cute budet dumat tolko o tom, kak zastavit vseh govorit na uzbekskom – nasha strana tak I budet tam gde ona seychas.

no offence intended...

[Cute]

Dorogoy cosmopolitan,
Tut spor bil ne o russkom yazike ili ob obsheniye na russkom, i ne o statuse russkogo yazika. Kak i vse ya gorjus' tem chto znayu russkiy. Pomoyemu ti ne govorish na uzbekskom, i spor ne o tebe i ne kasayetsya lichno tebya. Tut spor bil o lyudah kotoriye buduchi uzbekami, i znaya uzbekskiy prosto predpochitayut russkiy k ih rodnomu yaziku. Spor o tom chto ne dostatochnoye vnimaniye udelyayetsya uzbekskomu yaziku. Prosto nelzya dopustit chtobi uzbek znaya yazik ne uvajal ego. I spasibo za tvoyo mneniye, ono novoye tut, pomoyemu.
Thanks

[Cute]

Spor ne bessmislenniy kak ti govorish eto volnuyut bolshuyu chast' except you and co. I ne nado "S odnoy storoni lawyer, kotoriy pozorit odnoimennuyu professiyu, s drugoy storoni te, kotorie emu poddakivayut". Velikiy russkiy yazik bogat takimi virajeniyami, no ne nado ispol'zovat' ih.

[Cute]

"Esli nasha molodyoj tipa Lawyera I Cute budet dumat tolko o tom, kak zastavit vseh govorit na uzbekskom – nasha strana tak I budet tam gde ona seychas". Starik tipa COSMOPOLITAN ya dumayu mi ne zaslujivali takogo obrasheniya, yesli ya i lawyer molodyoj to kto ti? Ili ti sebya ne schitayesh takim? Ili po tvoyemu mi tupaya molodyoj kotoraya tolko i mojet govoorit na uzbekskom i pihat' chto i sami ne znayut,? Ti yavno razdelil sebya skazav "nasha molodyoj tipa...".

[hafa bulgan LAWYER]

Cute quy hafa bulma u eskilarda shakilli. Har kuni uyiga borib ko'zini qorachigiday asraydigan Stalin bobosini rasmiga sig'inagan.
dear COSMOPOLITAN!
HAVE YOU BEEN IN HOLLAND. THIS COUNTRY IS FULL WITH THINS BECAUSE OF THEIR CULTURAL LACKS. WHAT ABOUT MY PROFESSION I WILL BE ONE OF THE LEADER LAWYERS IN MY COUNTRY IN FURUTE THANKS TO I KNOW UZBEK LANGUAGE.
I ALSO SUGGEST YOU TO LEARN UZBEK IT IS BETTER THEN NEVER!
IT SEEMS YOU DON'T LIKE UZBEK LANGUAGE BECAUSE YOU DON'T RESPECT LIKE UZBEK PEOPLE. THAT IS TRU I THINK
ANYWAY THIS IS DISCUSSION EVERYONE CAN SHOW HIS/HERS FACE
SOG BULINGLAR.
YANA RAMAZON BILAN!

[Freestyler]

Ya tol'ko hotel skazat' (to Cute), chto mneniye Cosmopolitana ne novoye.

To yest' mojet bit' ono i novoye (v etoy linii), no daleko ne yedinstvennoye. Vpolne razumniye dovodi i ya s nimi soglasen. Chto-to podobnoye ya pisal v drugoy linii.

Odnako kak Cute skazal, zdes' spor idyot ne o statuse russkogo yazika, a o vajnosti vozrojdeniya uzbekskogo yazika, yego obogasheniye.
Drugaya problema zaklyuchayetsya v tom, chto nekotoriye hotyat dostich etogo putyom prinebrejitel'nogo i predvzyatogo otnosheniya k drugim yazikam (kak mne kajetsya sredi takih HAFA BO'LGAN LAWYER, po krayney mere yego argumenti vizvali u menya imenno takoye vpechatleniye, mojet ya i ne prav). Naprimer, kakoye pravo imeyet LAWYER delat' o Cosmopolitane zaklyucheniye vrode sleduyushego: "Cute quy hafa bulma u eskilarda shakilli. Har kuni uyiga borib ko'zini qorachigiday asraydigan Stalin bobosini rasmiga sig'inagan." I etot chelovek hochet stat' LAWYERom visshego ranga v Uzbekistane? Plachevno. Mojet' on shutil?

(Nadeyus' takje napadok na to, chto ya pisal na russkom ne budet. Eto yazik na kotorom ya luchshe vsego izlagayus' (k sojaleniyu), hotya eto ne moy rodnoy yazik.)

Keep it sober

[O'zbek]

Qichiqqa:
Oshna, sizning fikringizda haqiqat bor , yo'q deb bo'lmaydi. Lekin ruslar bizda nima qilishgan bo'lsa faqat o'z foydasi uchun kerak bo'lgani uchun qilishgan, zavodni ham boshqasini ham.
Madaniy tiklanish borasida ruslar bizga Evropa bilimlarini olib kelgan, lekin shu Evropa kimdan olgan? Evropa uyg'onish davri bilan Sharq uyg'onish davri orasida qancha farq bor?
Men bu so'zlarni gapirishimdan maqsad, to'g'ri ruslarni, rus tilini hurmat qilish kerak, lekin o'zimiz bilan teng ko'rgan holda.
Mayli men tarihdagi buyuk shahslarni gapirmay, lekin bir millat sifatida nima uchun biz doim orqada bo'lishimiz, kimlarnidir akahon deb bilishimiz kerak? Ular qachonlardir bizga yahshilik qilgani uchunmi? Ular keragini olib bo'lishgan bizdan. Endi ko'rib turibmiz oqibatini, Ekologik Fojea, Orolbo'yi mintaqasi, hali bu holvasi.
Til borasida erkin fikrga yo'l qo'yish kerak debsiz. Mayli, bu har kimning o'ziga havola. Biroq, shahsan men o'zbek bo'la turib rus tilini undan ustun qo'ygan odamni o'zida milliy g'ururi bor, kerak bo'lsa shu g'urur uchun kurashadigan MARD O'G'LONLAR safiga qo'shmayman.
Vatanparvarlik singari tushunchalar ham milliy g'ururdan kelib chiqadi.

[O'zbek]

Cosmopolitanga: Naverno ti znaesh uzbekskiy, poetomu, hotya i znayu russkiy, budu pisat na uzbekskom.
Esli ti uzbek, to eto dlya tebya:
Shunaqa krutoy bola ekansan, chamamda bunga rus tili orqali erishgansanmi deymanda.
Hamma gapirsa ham sen gapirmagin O'zbekistonni rivojlantirish haqida. Senga o'hshganlar, hafa bo'lmaginu, sekin Rossia bilan qo'shilish istagiga tushib qoladi agar birorta qiyinchilikka ro'baro' kelsa.
O'zbekistonda 130 hil millat bor debsan. Lekin o'zbeklar qancha? Men bir narsaga aminman: ruslardan va yana bitta ikkita millatlardan boshqa hamma o'zbek tilini biladi.
Endi senga to'lanayotgan pulga kelsak, buni 90% shu til egalariga va shu tilni hurmat qiladiganlarga tegishli. Unutma bizning asosiy daromadimiz qishloq ho'jaligi orqali, qishloqlarda esa ruslar va evreylar pahta ekmaydi yozning 40 daraja issig'ida.
Sen davlatni rivoji haqida qayg'uribsan. Davlat rivoji uchun qishloq ho'jaligini rivojlantirish kerak, u yerga sanoatni olib kirish kerak, ortiqcha ishchi kuchini sanoatga jalb qilish kerak. Iqtisodsiz 1-class lawyer bo'lsang ham hech narsa qilolmaysan.
Qishloqda esa hammasi o'zbeklar, tilni hurmat qilmagan odam millatni hurmat qilarmidi.
Shuning uchun biror narsa aytishdan oldin yahshilab o'ylagin.


Gaplarim tushunarsiz bo'lsa, qo'rqmay aytaver, rus tilida tushuntirib beraman.

[AlliGATOR]

I read your discussion and loughed a lot!!!

I think the initiator of this topic is a fresh Umidie who met some problems and got unhappy, and decided to complain:)

I think we should speak literature languages of the countries where we study(If you are in US or UK pls speak Engl., from Germany Deutsch, France - french), that will help us to master language of the country where we study and that' be asset to our studies too.

As for Russian, I think young generation prefers speaking Engl. to Rus. in order to show their "intelligence". That's normal too,

but appeals for speaking Uzbek only is not so correct, please begin it with you, try to write in good Uzbek, if you do that, others will do it too.
Raising the prestige of national language depends on how much information you can get in this language, unfortunately there's very very little information in Uzb:(

We hope that with the developement of the society (!?) the young generation will strengthen Uzbek:)

P.S. I preffer speaking Uzb and do it really well, cuz I was grown up in mahalla, I can understand guys who feel comfortable to speak russian too.

Knowledge of foreign languages is the matter of proud not something negative.

Respect!

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

dear Frestyler
man sani yoki Cosmopolitanni majburlamayman. San uzing aqlingni ishlatishing kerak uzingni oqlamasdan. Faqat yana qaytaraman san UZBEKISTONNI "marvarid" yoshlari deb baholanayotganlar orasidasan shuning uchun bilishing shart deb uylayman va buni kutarish qulimdan kelmaydi desang ketaver yuling ochiq. Man rus tilini hurmat qilaman hamma LAW adabiyotlar ALLIGATOR aytmoqchi eng yangi ,sifatli yangiliklar ruschada lekin bu degani SAN aytayotganday UZBEK TILIDA fikr bildirish qiyin degani emas.
Yana man hohlagandim hech bulmasa mana bu UMIDCHI yoshlar bu muammoni hal qilishda(tilni kutarishga)urnak bulishsa deb. San esa mani umuman boshqacha tushungansan. Cosmopolitan u boshqa toifadagi insonligi yaqqol kurinib turibdi. Rus chatlariga kirsang madaniyatni urganib chiqarding ularnikini. yoki Cosmopolitan aytgan AMSTERDAMda bir kun yashasang kurasan madaniyatni. NAFAQAT TILINI TOPTASHADI ULAR BOSHQA KECHIRILMAS HATOLARNI HAM QILISHADI ULAR.....(man bu narsalarga izoh berishdan ham nafratlanaman)
YANA QAYTARAMAN BU BAHS HAR KIM KIMLIGINI KURSATISHGA HARAKAT QILADI!
sog bulinglar!

[Cosmopolitan]

Lawyer, Uzbek va Cute - uzbek tilini sizlardan yahshi bilaman, Uzbek tilida fuqarolik huquq buyicha dars bergan man. Mani tushunmagan bulsalaring, chin qalbimdan acinaman sizlarga, achinarli holda tushib qolibsizlar.
Sendan, Lawyer, qanaqa lawyer chiqadi, hali kurish kerak, lekin san oldin ingliz tilini yahshigina urganib olgin, ozbek tiling qishloqinda yurganingda sanga yordam berishi mumkin, lekin westlaw yoki lexis-nexis-ga kirsang, hech kim sanga uzbek tilida huquqni tushuntirib bermaydi.
Cute - yoshim hamma umidchilar qatori.
"Shunaqa krutoy bola ekansan, chamamda bunga rus tili orqali erishgansanmi deymanda" - Erishganim tilim orqali emas, aqlim orqali - hammada shunaqa bulishi kerak - buni san tushunmaysan hech qachon. Katta dalaga chiqib "Man uzbek deb, man mustaqil deb, man uzbek tilini bilaman" deb baqirburgin, Lawyer.



Freestyler, thanks for support - vot razumniy chelovek

[Cute]

Salom hammaga
Avvalmbor Biz haqiqattanam bir-birimizni tushunmaganmiz(cosmopolitan). Bu tortishuvni o'qigan odam "chto nekotoriye hotyat dostich etogo putyom prinebrejitel'nogo i predvzyatogo otnosheniya k drugim yazikam" - (freestyler) shunaqa hayolga boradi. Lekin agar sila shunaqa deb tushungan bo'sela man bu fikrni qo'llab quvvatlaganim yo'q. Man o'zim rus tilini yakhshi bilaman, va bu manga albatta foyda, bundan tashqari yana 3ta chet tilini bilaman, ho'sh bu narsa mani boshqa tillarga qarshi ekanimni ko'rsatadimi, yo'q. Bundan tahsqari ham umuman chet tilini bilish foydadan holi narsa emas, mani qayt'iy fikrim bu. Lekin rus tili allaqachon chet tili darajasidan chiqib ulgurgan biz uchun, bu bilan yomon demoqchi emasman lekin... Agar kinoyani aqlli kinoyasini o'qisangiz (garchi man boshida hato hayolga bordim) ba'zi narsalarga amin bo'lasiz. Kinoya aslida O'zbek tilini bilmaydigan umidchining(millati o'zbek bo'la turib) fikrlari berishga uringan, men ham huddi kinoyadek o'ylayman, biz tortishayotgan insonlar shu toifada. Va bu insonlar bor. Ho'sh ana shunday vaziyatta o'zbek tilini mavqei haqida o'ylash nahotki rus tilini kamsitish bilan tebnglashtirilsa. Hozirgi vaziyat(balki hato bu so'zni ishlatish) Shunaqaki, biz rus tilini ming kamsitsak ham u mavqeini yo'qotmaydi. Shuning uchun rus tilini kamsitishga urunishdi degan gap bo'magan gap (ahmoq emasmizku, baribir bo'lmaydigan narsaga harakat qilamiz). Masala shundaki o'zbek tilini mavqeini ko'tarish (hohlasangiz faqat umidchilar ichida, bu shunchaki bir misol edi, umidchilar deyishim). Bu narsani rus tilini kamsitish degani emas, umuman boshqa tillarni ishlatish haqida kimdir "kim qanaqa savol bersa shunaqa javob beraman" degan edi, men ham shu fikrdaman, lekin savol berayotganlarchi? Umuman balki cosmopolitan aytganday "kakaya tebe raznica, kto na kakom yazike govorit na chate?". Lekin buni sabablariga kelgandachi? Men aytmoqchi bo'layotganim biz oddiy chatta emasmiz, yani bu yerdagi insonlar unaqa oddiy insonlar emas...

[inson]

Qadrli yosh Umidchilar, "yosh" so'zini double underline qilyapman. Sizning fikrlaringiz aslida yahshi, yomon deb bo'lmaydi, lekin aminman, uyga borganda, orqangizga bir "nezachto" tepishganda, qaytraman, "nezachto", o'zbek tilimiz tursin, o'z o'zbek millatingiz haqida o'ylab qolasiz. "Nima uchun?" deb so'rasangiz, po russkiy: "prosto tak" deb turishadi. Etmoqchi bo'lganim, umidchiligingizdan juda fahrlanasiz, the same was my case, lekin... hikoyaning lekini bor.
Kelasi yil umuman boshqa mavzular haqida o'ylab qolasiz.
Keyin, reply qilganlarga hurmatda bo'ling, treat them as you would have preferred to be treated.
Ramazan mubarak.

[Mimohodom]

hafa bulgan LAWYER - uzbekchada LAWYERga ekvivalent topilmadimi?

ya koroche ne ponyal v chem problema? kto-nibud' prinujdayet lawyera ne govorit' po-uzbekski? ili naoborot govorit' po-uzbekski? da i zachem navyazivat' drugim svoi misli?

odin den' mi igrali v ping-pong golimi do poyasa, potom kto-to is postoronnih nachal vozrajat' tipa pochemu eto vi goliye? i odin iz nas otvetil: "ne nravitsya - ne smotri".

atak vprintsipe problema aktualnaya :) tolko was brought in wrong way. yesli duraku skajut chto on durak - to on konechno obiditsya :) defensive thinking.

anyway...

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

COSMOPOLITAN:Man avvalo sizdan kechirim surayman "HAR KUNI STALIN BOBOSINI RASMIGA SIGINADIGAN" deb aytilgan fikr uchun. Ikkinchidan siz fuqarolik huquqidan dars berganman deb aytibsiz man "ustoz" ahlini qattiq hurmat qilaman chunki ular bilim ulashadi. Uchinchidan maslahatingiz juda urinli mani uzim ham buni tushunaman ingliz tilini urganishim kerakligini va urganyapman usha siz aytgan WEST LAW lexus larni har kuni 7-8 soatdan.
Lekin bizdan kotta bulsangiz kerak oka siz bizni achinarli holga tushib qolibsizlar debsiz buni balkim "boshqa" insonlarga qullash kerakdir. Uzbek tilini bizdan yahshi bilaturib birinchi fikringizni ruschada bergansiz va qushimcha "to shto mi ego znaem bolshoy -plus dlya(ya soglasen etu) nas i GORDOST".Endi "GORDOST"dan keyin uzbek tiliga munosabatingiz "UZBEK TILI SANGA QISHLOGINGA BORGANINGDA YORDAM BERADI SANGA" "KATTA DALAGA CHIQIB man uzbek deb,man mustaqil deb,man mustaqil deb" BAQIRABERGIN LAWYER".
teper mne stidno sporit chelovekom kotoriy ne uvajaet moy yazik nesmotrya on schitaetsya ochen umniy i prepodaval uroki grajdanskogo prava"
TI MOJET DEYSTVITEL'NO UMNIY NO NEKULTURNIY, TI HOCHESH VIDET UZBEKISTANU (ILI VOOBSHE TEBE NE INTERESUYUT BUDUSHIY UZBEKISTANA KAK "UZBEK TILI)PODRUGOMU YA HOCHU VIDET PODRUGOMU. TEPER NEMNOJKA PRO GOLLANDIYA: NEDAVNO BILA PEREDACHA "CITY OF THINS" I TAM POKAZALI AMSTERDAM. KAK TI NAPISAL VSE GOLIE PROSTITUTKI SKAZALI SHTO ONI ZNAET BOLSHE CHEM 3 YAZIK....
TEPER TI SKAZAL "Lawyer,Cute v Ozbek- man sizlardan uzbek tilini yahshi bilaman",LITERATURE BOARDGA BORING VA ADIBAHON DEGAN QIZMIZNI "FORREST" DEGAN URTOQQA BILDIRGAN SUNGGI FIKRINI UQIB KURING UNI QANCHALIK RUS TILINI VA NEMIS TILINI BILISHINI BOSHQA MESSAGELARIDAN KURIB BOQING
SIZ MAQTAGAN GOLLANDIYA MANAVIYATSIZLIGINI ORQASIDAN KUR-KURASIGA TAQLID BIR YAHSHI QIZLARINI 3 TILNI "FOHISHA"LARGA ALISHTIRGAN KAMBAG'ALLIK ORQASIDAN EMAS. ENDI SAL FIKRIMIZNI TUSHUNGANDIRSIZ
man bu masala tugrisida yengi bu discussionga kirganimda yozgan edim va man hech kimni "govorit po-uzbekskiy" yoki "govorit po russkiy"ga majburlamaganman aksincha UZBEK tilini darajasini kutarishni taklif qilganman.
Jelayu udacha COSMOPOLITAN!

Mimohodom:boyus chto ti toje ne ponimaesh v chem problema. Dlya ponyat etogo nado netol'ko um eshyo drugie chuvstvi kak lyubit rodinu, lyubit rodnoy yazik a ne chuvstvo yumoro dlya seksualnih anekdotov.
Kstati spasibo ochen umniy "esli duraku skajut chto on durak -to on konechno obidetsya.
CUTE- man sizni va AZAMOVlarni qattiq hurmat qilar edim sizni bu masalda bildirgan fikrlaringiz va qolaversa LB da gi chiqishlaringiz sizga bulgan hurmatimni yanada oshirdi.
Endi bu "okalar" bilan tortishishni tuhtataylik chunki ular nafaqat AZAMOVlarni kitoblari yoki kursatuvlarini qolaversa butun uzbek ziyolilarini hurmat qilmasliklarini sayoz fikrlari bilan oshkor qildilar.
Balki bizlar adashayotgandirmiz lekin mani bu fikrimdan va tilimga bulgan qarashimdan hech kim qaytara olmaydi uylaymanki sizni ham.
Ulugbek uqishlarga va LBdagi chiqishlarga omad tilayman.
Hurmat bilan hammaga omad tilab:
hafa bulgan LAWYER!

[hafa bulgan LAWYER!]

nazvanie pedachi bila ne "city of thins" "city of sins" sorry it was my mistake!

[mustafa]

Lawyer, naverno ti ne hochesh discuss so mnoi, no vse taki videli nemnojko vremeni pochitat sleduechee:

Ya dumaiu chto ti oslep chustvom patriotisma i ne vidish chto tebe na samom dele rodina dast (its not bad, its good to be patriot but not too much).

I pochemu ti ne stoish na svoiei posictiy, to soglashayeshsya to protiv. IF you'll answer me that was right and this was wrong and thats why I was pro and against, then the world isnt flexible as our thoughts and you simply cant do one thing today and another tomorrow.

I v konce nikto je tebe ne govorit: Hey pochemu ti na russkom horosho ne pishesh.

Mustafa

[another cosmopolitan]

Hey hafa bulgan LaWER, nima qilasiz bu gaplarni kutarib? Bu gaplar odamlani faqat bir-biridan uzoqlashtiradi.

Someone was right that we have to embrace our diversity, and this kind of talks are useless. Uzbek language will find its place in its due course. Don't push it, OK?

Boshqa tillarga ham hurmat bilan qarang bulmasa Iraniar larga uhshaganlar uzining propagandasini tez boshlaydi bu esa nima oqibatlarga olib kelishini uzingiz yahshi bilasiz.

You speak like some well-known separatist and shovinist Zhirinovsky, who also thinks that because russians are majority they can do and say whatever they want. THIS IS so WRONG !!!

And stop making those references to Holland, they are one of the hardest working and smartest people the world have ever seen. Even Peter the Great was so much obsessed with Holland that he wanted to make Dutch as an official languages in Russia. There is no need to tell you how much Peter did for Russia, in fact the fact that he opened the minds of russians to the West was a cornerstone in development of Russia. Not only prostitutes learn foreign languages but everyone who wants to succeed and prosper in Europe. I know you want the culture and the language been preserved, but both of them must be flexible, not stagnant.
MY OPINION IS WE HAVE TO LEARN TO LOOK FOR ANY WAY TO IMPROVE OUR SITUATION, AND GIVE UP SOME OBSOLETE VIEWS WHICH ONLY MAKES EDUCATED, SKILLED PEOPLE LEAVE THE COUNTRY and West to doubt about the future of the country. After all what you want totally homogenius society or diverse and wealthy sociaty?

[Alex]

PS. We have to learn to be tolerant of dissidents, my friend had to move from mahallya because the neghborhood could not tolerate her wearing jeans. Isn't it stupid?

[Freestyler]

"I v konce nikto je tebe ne govorit: Hey pochemu ti na russkom horosho ne pishesh." (Mustafa)

Daaaaaaaaa! Eto bilo ochen' jestoko, Mustafa...

[mustafa]

Ya zaranee prinoshu svoi izveneniya if it was to hurt anyone.
Sorry again.

[hafa+bolmagan]

Nu chto lyudi, opyat' nachinayem na russkom?

[O'zbek]

Bu deyman, birlashib hafa bo'lgan Lawyerga hujum uyushtiribsizlarda.
Cosmopolitan, menga qanaqadir achinish izhor qilibsan, bu umuman NOO'RIN. Agar meni o'zbek tilidan boshqasini bilmaydi desang qattiq hato qilasan.

Keyin yuqoridagi ayrim muhataram zotlar aytishibdi, Rossia rivojlanishi WESTga qo'shilgandan keyin boshlandi deb. BU tarihan rost va haqiqat. Lekin O'zbekiston va Rossiya orasida, o'zbeklar va ruslar orasida juda katta farq bor, buni aytib o'tirmayman. Bu degani biz Evropani har jihatini qabul qilolmaymiz, shuning uchun o'zimizga hos, o'zimizga mos degan iboralar yuradi. BU iqtisodiyot uchun ham madaniyat uchun ham birday taalluqli.
AS for a girl, forced to leave mahalla, I think that she was completely wrong when she wore the jeans in mahalla. Mahalla, in my point of view, is the best place where one can see the pure uzbek culture.Everyone should respect and obey the laws of it.
Keyin, faqat manfaat nuqtai nazaridan qarasak ham(chunki bu yerda ko'pchilik faqat manfaatga qarab fikrlayapti), umuman evropalashib ketish va keyin shuni O'zb.da qo'llashga urinish hammangizga juda katta zarar keltiradi. Mening ishonchim komil, birdan borib revolyutsiya qilolmaysizlar. Jamiyatni birdan Evropacha o'ylaydigan qilish bu juda qiyin ish va menimcha keragi yo'q.
Hozirda juda ko'p odamlar O'zbekistonda faqat milliy nuqtai nazardan o'ylaydi va shunga qarab fikr yuritadi,men ham shunday toifaga kiraman. Bu odamlarning kelajakka bo'lgan ishonchini ta'minlash uchun, rivojlanishga bo'lgan vatanparvarlik ruhini uyg'otish uchun ular shuncha paytdan asrab kelgan udumlarini, urf-odatlarini inkor qilmay, balki tushunib, hamjihatlikda ishlash kerak.
Garchi ko'pchiligingiz o'zbek bo'lsangiz ham, meni tushunish sizlarga qiyin kechyapti. Hozirgi bizning millatda mavjud illatlarni faqat urf-odatlardan izlamanglar. Jeans kiygan qizga bo'lgan munosabat 1000 yillardan beri shakllangan, bu madaniyatimiz taqozo etgan holat. Madaniyatimizni hurmat qilmoq lozim va bir haqiqatni, o'zgartirish juda qiyin ekanligini ham tan olish darkor.
Til ham shular jumlasiga kiradi. Tilni hurmat qilmagan odam butun halqqa nisbatan hurmatsizlik nazari bilan qaraydi. Halq esa buni albatta yoqtirmaydi, rahbarlar bilan halq orasida hamjihatlik yo'qoladi. O'zi shundoq ham yomon vaziyat battar chigallashadi.

Bu sizlarga materialistik tushuntirish edi.

Salomat bo'linglar.

[Student]

Janob O'zbek,

Evropalashish deganda men shahsan zamoniylashishni tushunaman. Zamonaviy modern bo'lish keragi yo'k deyish fikrimcha butunlay no'o'rn. Biz nimaga Evropada o'kiyapmiz??? maksadimiz zamonaviy rivojlangan davlat kurish emasmi, ahir??

Endi urf odatlarga kelsak, Evropada ham shunaka narsalar bulgan milliy urf odat degan narsalar(katta yoshdagi nemislar bilan gaplashib bunga o'zim guvoh bo'ldim:)), bularning hammasi vakt o'tishi bilan orkada kolib ketgan. Misol uchun ayolni jamiyatdagi o'rni - Buyuk Britaniya bunga yakkol misol, ayol kishi doimo uyda o'tirishi kerak, unka kiyinishi kerak va hkz.lar, hozirchi, kanaka sharoit etta?:).

Nemis tilini ukiyotganimizda nemis madaniyati bilan tanishib kizik uxshashliklarni ham uchratdik (iffatli bulish hakida misol uchun), lekin rivojlanish ґva shaxsning jamiyatdagi o'z o'rnini tushunib etish o'z hak hukuklarini bilishi bilan urf odatlar o'tmish bo'lib kolgan, bu tabiiy jarayon, buni sekinlatish mumkin lekin vaktni to'xtatib bo'lmaydi.

Jeans kiygan kiz o'zi aybdor degan gap bu gi'rt varvarlik :), nmaga shunaka mayda insonning shaxsiy hayotiga aralashadigan urf-odatlar saklanishi kerak??

Mening fikrimcha, yosh avlodni, umuman xalkki umumiy ongini demokratiya va hukukiy davlat asoslariga sodik ruhda tarbiyalash kerak. Unaka urf-odatlar(misolchun kattani etgani doimo hak deb adolatsizliklarga yo'l kuyish) an'an'a darajasidan chikarilishi kerak.

P.S.

I agree with majority's point, the main idea is understanding each-other and building the flourishing Uzbekistan. As for language, everyone should master the language s/he likes to speak, and be able to make really impressive and intelligent points ih her/his speach, I fear many(not all:))can speak neither proper russian or English or Uzbek:)

e'tibot uchun rahmat

[Cute]

Hammaga salom
Ho'sh bizga achinayotgan "akalar", ha haqiqattanam achinsangiz bo'ladi, silaga hohlagan narsamizni mana 1 oydan beri yetkiza olmayapmiz. Eng avvalo mavzuni o'qigandan keyin va javob yozayotganda yozganlarning shahsiy emotsiyalarini suistemol qilmasliklaringizni iltimos qilardim. Undan keyin shovinist povinist degan gaplarni umuman ishlatish nourin, man buni haqiqiy haqorat deb tushunaman, chunki siz shovinist deyayotganlar sizga hech qanaqa shovinistik chiqishlar qilishmadi(Hech kim kamsitilib, hech kim hech kimdan ustun qo'yilgani yo'q, gap faqat til mavqei haqida ketayapti) Agar o'shalarni shovinist desanglar man ham shovinist, lol. Man inson harakteridagi ichidagi gapni yashirish hususiyatini o'ylab shu fikrga keldim, hammayam hohlagan fikrini aytayotgani yo'q, shunchaki hazil qilib qo'yishadi. Ba'zan joningga tegadi. Mavzu yoqmasa qisib chiqib ket, har hil bo'mag'ur gaplarni yozgandan ko'ra. Hammamiz zo'rmizda o'zimizni zo'r aqlli va hushchaqchaq ko'rsatamiz. Huddi bizga bu "yosh bolalarning mavzulari" tegishli emas allaqachon bu narsadan o'tib ulgurganmiz. Shuning uchun kim to'liq fikr bildirgan bo'lsa o'shani hurmat qilish kerak.
Ho'sh "jeansli" qizga kelsak, o'zim mahallada turaman, mahallamda jeans kiyishadi qizlar. Qiziq hech kim haydamagan sinab ko'rish kerak, lol. Umuman bo'magan gap agar faqat jeans deb mahallani tark etish ehtimoli. E manga qarang qaysi ahmoq mahallani faqat shuni deb tark etadi? Undan keyin nima qiz "krutoy"mi(yo bo'masa "krutaya" zamonaviy tilda) hohlagan ishini qiladi, hohlasa uy almashtiradi demoqchiman, agar shunaqa krutoy bo'sa mahalladan allaqachon chiqib ketardi "da nu vas "varvari(kimdir shu so'zni ishlatti). QANAQA MAHALLA QANAQA O'ZBEKLAR, QANAQA URF ODATLAR GAP SILAR HAIQDA KETAYAPTI, NIMA KERAGI BOR MAVZUDAN QOCHISHNI. NIMA SHU YO'L BILAN FIKRLARINGGA QO'SHIMCHA ARGUMENT TERAYAPSILARMI. ANIQ MAVZU BORKU, QAYTA-QAYTA AYTILSAYAM BARIBIR SHU AHVOL.
Undan keyin zamonaviy, modern jamiyat quramiz degan insonning gaplariga qaraganda biz hamma narsani tan olishimiz kerak zamonaviy bo'lish uchun. Fohishabozlikni qonuniy qilamiz, narkotikni qonuniy sotuvga chiqaramiz, singlimiz bilan dugonamizni, yo bo'masa ukamiz bilan do'stimizni bir yostiqqa bosh qo'yishi arafasida bekamu ko'st hizmat qiladigan bo'lamizmi?
Albatta o'zgarishlar bo'ladi evropa tomonga sekin-sekin hamma narsa o'zgaradi, lekin hech narsa kuch bilan yoki shunaqa bo'lishi kerak degan narsa bilan emas, ahir biz tamomila boshqachamiz. URF ODATLAR NEMISLARDA YO'Q BO'LGAN BO'SA bizda yo'q bo'ladi degan narsa emas. Undan keyin urf-odat qanaqadir "VARVARNING" dinit rituallari emas ahir. MANGA HAQIQATTAN ACHINSANGIZ BO'LADI CHUNKI MAN SHUNGA AMIN BO'LDIM - SIZ ALLAQACHON O'ZINGIZDAGI G'URURNI YO'QOTGANSIZ.(hammaga tegishli emas)
Man ham og'aynim oldida shu UMIDCHILANI balandparvoz suhbatlariga qo'shilib o'zimmi O'BRO'IMNI yerga urib o'tiramanmi, DA NU ETIH UMNIKOV, NEZNAYUT SAMI O CHEM GOVORYAT deyishim mumkin. Lekin shuni man ham o'zbek ham lawyer ham .... qilgani yo'q. Bu bilan "akalar" bilib qo'yinglar bizga o'hshagan ko'p shuning uchun yakhshilab o'ylab javob yozing. Manimcha eng ko'p yozganladan man bo'sam kerak lekin hali hech kimga "varvar" "negramotniy" yoki "shovinist demadim, lekin bu narsa sizga havola hohlasangiz yozavering.

P.S. Eng avvalo evropalashiyotgan akalar, haqiqiy real hayottan uzoqlashish yakhshi emas, baribir o'sha mahalla o'sha "varvarlar" qatoriga borib qo'shilamiz.

Rahmat.

[Papirus]

I TRY TO BE CONCISE...O'ZBEK, SHALL WE ALSO DRESS ONLY IN UZBEK TRADITIONAL CLOTHES, SHALL WE EAT ONLY UZBEK FOOD...ETC??? BUT IT'S NOT THE MAIN POINT. THE THING IS YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE HISTORY ...I MEAN GO BACK TO PRE-RUSSIAN TIMES AND FIGHT THE RUSSIANS BACK! ADMIT IT!!!

IT'S SO INTO US, AND EVEN THOUGH WE WOULD TRY HARD TO CHANGE THE WAY WE EAT, CHANGE THE WAY WE LIVE AND CHANGE THE WAY WE TREAT EACH OTHER THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS THINGS ARE NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME:) WE SIMPLY CAN'T!

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD AN INDIAN (SOUTH ASIA) OR AFRICAN TALKING? JUST TRY TO THINK MORE BROADLY AND FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES...HOPE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR? NO OFFENSE PLZ:)

P.S. I USED ENGLISH BECAUSE IT'S AN INTERNATIONAL LANGUAGE AND MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT:) SOURCES USED TUPAC "CHANGES":)

[PAPIRUS]

...BESIDES IT'S UP TO ME WHAT LANGUAGE I WANNA USE, RIGHT? I HATE PUSHERS:)

[Observer]

Come on Papirus, who is trying to push you to change your lifestyle, go back to history or whatever? What are you talking about? All these people is asking just a little bit respect for Uzbek language.The fact that you already choose not to speak Uzbek is already a shame on our generation.
However, you are right about the current situation. Russian is everywhere in Uzbekistan. All the major government institutions use Russian.The experience I had this summer was in a way striking though sad.UZBEKS speak Russian in Umid Foundation,UZBEKS speak Russian in the diagnostic facility they sent us from Umid, Umidies UZBEKS speak Russian all the time.Uzbek language became a secondary one for them unfortunately.
I understand that this is a direct consequence of Soviet regime, when a requirement to be intelligent was equal to speak Russian fluently.In addition all Uzbek intelligence tried to educate their children in Russian schools, tried to speak Russian in the family though they were Uzbeks, and etc,and etc.But hey you got to admit the fact that the times has changed.And we UZBEKS must start showing respect to our language.
Why don't Russians speak Uzbek in Uzbekistan?They are the minority, right, so why don't they know the language of majority? Well,da, try to speak Uzbek in Russia,Russians wouldn't be so pleased, would they?
And I want also to emphasize that I am not intending to rise the nationalistic feelings.All I am asking for a simple respect for UZBEK language. Language is one of major components of a person's identity. In addition, if we claim to be UZBEKS, LET'S AT LEAST SPEAK UZBEK LANGUAGE TO UZBEKS!!!

[PAPIRUS]

YEAH WHATEVER LET'S JUST WRAP IT UP...EVERYBODY IS HERE IS UNBREAKABLE!

[O'zbek]

Cute bir vaqtlar "Biz o'zbekmiz-ku" degan mavzuda bir gap aytgandi: Tilni ikkinchi darajaga qo'yish ko'p narsa bilan bog'liq. Millatparvarlik, vatanparvarlik degan tuyg'ularning yetishmasligi ham shundan kelib chiqadi"
Bu muhokama o'zbek tilidan boshlanib, milliy urf-odatlarga qarab ketyapti. Men ham yuqorida ozgina fikr bildirgandim, ayrijm o'ta madaniyatli insonlar menga "varvar" degan fahrli unvonni berishdi. Bu bilan ular qariyb 15 mln o'zbekni shunday deyishdan tap tortgani yo'q(2-3 mln o'zbeklar buni ichiga kirmaydi.
Student, men seni fikrlaringni bilaman, Islom uchun bildirgan ideyalaringdan asar chiqadi va uni qo'rqmasdan "Ateizm" deb nomlasa bo'ladi. Shunga sen bilan tortishishni behuda deb bilaman. Lekin bir haqiqatni sen bilgin va esingdan chiqarmagin: Nemislar Germaniyada, Evropada yashaydi va ular roman-german oilasiga kiradi. O'zbeklar O'zbekistonda, Osiyoda yahsab, aksariyati Islomga e'tiqod qiladi. Garchi ko'pchiligi islomning asosiy majburiyatlarini bajarmasa ham, ularning madaniyatining asosida Islom dini yotadi.
" Nu i chto?" dersan, lekin bu juda jiddiy mavzu.
HECH QACHON BORIBOQ O'ZBEKLARNI EVROPA MADANIYATIGA KIRGAZA OLMAYSAN.
Endi ayollarga leksak, hozir menimcha hamma ayollar ishlaydi, uyda o'tirmaydi. Iffat masalasida seni diding qanaqa bilamdimku,lekin belida belbog'i dor yigit asosiy e'tiborni shunga beradi.
Shuning uchun, hurmatli "bratanlar", shamolga qarshi tupurmanglar. President aytganday: Yangi uyni qurmay turib, eskisini buzmanglar". Bu ko'p narsani anglatadi.


Salomat bo'linglar.

[O'zbek]

Cute bir vaqtlar "Biz o'zbekmiz-ku" degan mavzuda bir gap aytgandi: Tilni ikkinchi darajaga qo'yish ko'p narsa bilan bog'liq. Millatparvarlik, vatanparvarlik degan tuyg'ularning yetishmasligi ham shundan kelib chiqadi"
Bu muhokama o'zbek tilidan boshlanib, milliy urf-odatlarga qarab ketyapti. Men ham yuqorida ozgina fikr bildirgandim, ayrijm o'ta madaniyatli insonlar menga "varvar" degan fahrli unvonni berishdi. Bu bilan ular qariyb 15 mln o'zbekni shunday deyishdan tap tortgani yo'q(2-3 mln o'zbeklar buni ichiga kirmaydi).
Student, men seni fikrlaringni bilaman, Islom uchun bildirgan ideyalaringdan asar chiqadi va uni qo'rqmasdan "Ateizm" deb nomlasa bo'ladi. Shunga sen bilan tortishishni behuda deb bilaman. Lekin bir haqiqatni sen bilgin va esingdan chiqarmagin: Nemislar Germaniyada, Evropada yashaydi va ular roman-german oilasiga kiradi. O'zbeklar O'zbekistonda, Osiyoda yahsab, aksariyati Islomga e'tiqod qiladi. Garchi ko'pchiligi islomning asosiy majburiyatlarini bajarmasa ham, ularning madaniyatining asosida Islom dini yotadi.
" Nu i chto?" dersan, lekin bu juda jiddiy mavzu.
HECH QACHON BORIBOQ O'ZBEKLARNI EVROPA MADANIYATIGA KIRGAZA OLMAYSAN.
Endi ayollarga leksak, hozir menimcha hamma ayollar ishlaydi, uyda o'tirmaydi. Iffat masalasida seni diding qanaqa bilamdimku,lekin belida belbog'i dor yigit asosiy e'tiborni shunga beradi.
Shuning uchun, hurmatli "bratanlar", shamolga qarshi tupurmanglar. President aytganday:" Yangi uyni qurmay turib, eskisini buzmanglar".
Bu ko'p narsani anglatadi.


Salomat bo'linglar.

[PAPIRUS]

DEAR O'ZBEK,

I AM REEEAAALY SORRY FOR YOU IF YOU STILL DID NOT GET ME!!!...HERE WE GO AGAIN. THAT'S HOW I INTERPRET YOUR ACTIONS:) YOU REPEATED YOURSELF DZIILLION TIMES HERE(THX INTERNET THERE IS STILL SPACE LEFT:)) GOING LIKE: "YOU (IT DOESN'T APPLY TO EVERYONE!) "DORKS" HAVE TO HEAR ME! YOU HAVE TO DO THIS AND THAT BLAH BLAH BLAH ..." I THINK YOU ARE JUST SO PATHETIC BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE ME DON'T AGREE WITH YOU AT SOME POINT:) JUST TAKE IT EASY TRY TO BE MORE OPEN TO OTHER IDEAS AND VIEWS! IF YOU TRY YOU CAN REACH THE SKY!

P.S. IT'S 6 IN THE MORNING HERE(NO SLEEP FOR ME)SO IF I SOUND A BIT OBNOXIOUS SORRY:) I DID NOT MEAN TO HURT ANYBODY!

[O'zbek]

Dear Papirus,
I don't feel that I've really deserved your words. If you don't like my ideas, just don't read them, OK.
Besides, say "I am sorry for you" to someone who is doing wrong things and remaining helpless.
I CAN REPEAT AGAIN AND AGAIN: I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT AND I HAVE ALREADY CHOSEN MY OWN WAY OF THINKING, LIVING AND ETC.. THEREFORE, I DON'T NEED ANY ADVICE REGARDING MY BEHAVIOUR.
AND I HAVE NOT ARGUED "PAPIRUS, DO THIS AND DON'T DO THAT".

If you are clever enough, maybe in future you will remember me when you have difficulties due to misunderstanding people.

PEACE

[Student]

O'zbek,

nima keregi bor "ateist" va boshka narsalarni etib odamni ajratishni?:(

O'zbek bo'lsa zamonaviy bo'lishi mumkin emasmi?

Konservatorlik bo'lish o'z vaktida yaxshi, o'zgarish jarayonini sun'yi tezlashishini yonini oladi, lekin biz chet elda o'kiyotganlar shunaka insonning shaysiy hayotiga tajovuz kiladigan odatlarni to'g'ri deb hisoblasak, va o'kiyotgan davlatlarning hayot tarzini yaxshi o'rganmasak, kerakli tomonlarini o'z hayotimizda va o'z erimizda tadbik kilmasak unda nima keragi bor bu erda o'kishni???

Keyin asosiy mavzu til hakida edi, bu hakida o'z fikrimni bildirdim (AlliGATOR&Student):)

e'tiboringiz uchun rahmat

[Freestyler]

Kto-to tam prosil "a little bit more respect for the Uzbek language". A chto eto znachit? Ne znachit li eto to, chto vi hotite zastavit' govorit' vseh na uzbekskom? Ili zastavit' govorit' na uzbekskom vseh pogolovno kto po passportu uzbek? A vseh kto vam protivitsya vi pospeshite okrestit' nepatriotami, lud'mi ne lubyashimi i stidyashimisya svoyey nacii i ne uvajayushimi svoy rodnoy yazik i kul'turu, i chto huje togo pdovergnite ostrakizmu. Chuj' da i tol'ko.

Ya uvajayu uzbekskiy, i uveren vse cosmopolitani i im podobniye toje uvajayut, i ne men'she. No eto ne znachit chto ya obyazan na nyom govorit'.

Yesli vi tak sil'no hotite navyazat' vsem uzbekskiy yazik, pochemu bi vam ne nachat' hotya bi s gramotnogo pis'ma bez pozornih oshibok v nashem uvajayemom uzbekskom yazike, kotoriy uje davno osvoil latinicu. (Otnositsya ne ko vsem).
Nekotoriye iz vas boleye razumniye uje nachali svoyo blagoye delo boleye civilizovannim putyom cherez LB - pohval'no.
Kak bi vi ne staralis' izmenit' tot fakt, chto v Uzbekistane do sih por russkiy yazik schitayetsya delovim i nauchnim yazikom, u vas ne poluchitsya izmenit' etogo srazu v pol'zu uzbekskogo vot takim vot putyom.

Another Cosmopolitan (ili Alex) upomyanul chto takaya vot politika privedyot v konce koncov k massovomu ottoku mozgov, lyudey obrazovannih i progressivnih no ne govoryashih na russkom. Odin prostoy primer: v gorodke otkuda ya rodom elitnimi hirurgami bili yevrei i russkiye. Posle nezavisimosti oni vse predvideli chto-to podobnoye, chto proishodit u nas seychas, i perekochevali kto kuda. A v gorode ne ostalos' ni odnogo vracha kotoriy mog bi normal'no virezat' appendicit, chislo smertel'nih ishodov posle operaciy rezko uvelichilos'.
Drugoy primer: Kirgiziya
Toje obyavila nezavisimost' i pospeshila videlitsya svoyey nacianal'noy ideyey, kirgizskim gosudarstvennim yazikom i t. d. Kak ni stranno, nedavno u nih rassmatrivalsya zakon o predostavlenii russkomu yaziku statusa vtorogo delovogo yazika. A vsyo potomu chto oni staralis' uderjat' v strane uje davno poskudevshiye ryadi russkoyazichnogo naseleniya injenerov i uchonih.

A yesho vot chto ya zametil. Vse te kto tak yaro vistupayut za dostoynoye uvajeniye k uzbekskomu yaziku - v osnovnoy svoyey masse novichki, to bish freshers. Oni yavno zaskuchali po rodnomu uzbekskomu yaziku i nachali pihat' chuj' vrode davayte govorit' po uzbekski, mi ved' uzbeki, a te kto ne s nami, eto uje ne uzbeki, oni ne uvajayut nash rodnoy lyubimiy uzbekskiy yazik, oni avruppalshgan a eto ne po nashenski, to bish ne po uzbekski. Oni nosyat djinsi tam gde oni ne doljni etogo delat' oni ne uvajayut tradicii, oni ne uvajayut nacional'nuyu odejdu i t. d. i t. p.
(Huuh, chto-to ya razgroryachilsya) Anyway, budem nadeyatsya chto oni opomnyatsya i stanut boleye ... hm ... open-minded chto li.

[papirus]

O'zbek, scroll up and read me again... still didn't get it???:) You might wanna do it every time you reply again!!!

p.s. you are like the bug in my computer...;)

[mustafa]

Freestyler,

I agree. Its sad but true. A "...a te kto ne s nami, eto uje ne uzbeki...", reminds me " kto ne s nami, tot nash vrag".

[Student]

Sploshnie shovinisti, natsionalisti i babai.
U menya volosi dibom na golvoe vstayut kogda ya dumau, chto nado budet vozrachatsya i s nimi so vsemi obchatsya. Na Uzbeksom.
Lawyer i tebe podobnie, vashu porodu ya horosho znau i s vami ya obchaus tol'ko na uzbekskom.
Tol'ko protivno do chertikov chto vi i suda zalezli i vse zaporoli.
Kakaya uzkolobost, aj toshno stonovitsya.

[Cute]

Ey vi tam umniki o@uyeli chtoli kto vas prosil pisat' che sovsem nyuh potyerali? @lya budu mojete li normal'no obshatsya. A ti nash znamenitiy student so svoimi "znamenitimi" ideyami poshol bi podalshe. Kto vam govorit chto vse na uzbekskom doljni govorit, odevatsya kak uzbeki, i voobshe kak dumat' kak "babai" kak tot je student skazal. Ved' vse eto bilo napravleno konkretnim lyudyam, a ne vsem kto ne govorit po uzbekski. I ne tem kto po natsional'nosti ne uzbeki, i ne tem kto voobshe kak nekotoriye ne____ ne ponimayut. Vid' mnogiye svoye skazali za i protiv. No vi pryachetes' govorya chto mi varvari babai natsionalisti shovinisti i itd. Netu u vas uvajeniya k sebe, pryachites pod takimi slovami. Vi sami izmenili topic v storonu shovinizma, natsionalisma i td. Kak odin skazal politika eto prostitutsiya tak eto politika u vas horosho poluchayetsya. (mi je bolshiye shovinisti i ispolzuyem po etomu tsetati shovinistov, LOL I LOOOL)

P.S.

[AlliGATOR]

Student iz US, Cute eto tebe govoril:)

can't you you use another nick or else it's confusing!

Student(AlliGATOR)

[tinglovchi]

zo'r,bolla! munozara mavzusi o'ta muhim.bu erda juda muhim fikrlar berilibdi. hammasini o'qib uni yana mag'zini chaqqunimcha(kim nima demoqchi ekanligini), ishonaveringlar saharlik bo'ldi.
lekin bir narsaga qo'shilmadim. hafa bo'lmaysizlar,agar adashyathan bo'lsam.
menimcha, munozarachilar bir-birlarini to'gri tushunishmayapti.va bu aksariyat hollarda shahsiy nafratga olib kelyapti.
iltimos,bir-biringizni fikringizni hurmat qiling. 6 milliard odam borki dunyoda, 6 milliard haqiqat bor.bir-biringizni pastga urmang(masalan:hatosiz yozishni o'rgan avval, yoki, bir-biriga "shirin" so'zlar bilan murojaat qilib).mana'viyat deysilaru, tap tortmay so'kinasilaya. men shundan biroz hijil bo'ldim.
yana menimcha,sizlar faqat bitta kayfiyatda gapiryapsizlar. bir taraf o'zbek tili jonkuyarlari, ikkinchi taraf esa faqat unga qarshi kayfiyatda.mani bitta hurmatli domlam aytganiday: "odnobokiy o'ylayapsizlar". lekin adashyatgan bo'lishim mumkin. uzr...
bu erda faqat o'zbek tilini hurmat qilish haqida gap ketyapti holos.
hamma hohlagan tilida gaplashaversin,lekin bitta narsa.(buni tushunasizlar deb o'ylayman):ikkita o'zbek bir biri bilan russcha yoki inglizcha gaplashyapti.holbuki,ikkalasi ham juda yahshi biladi o'zbek tilini.shunaqada mani ensam qotadi. nima uchun bunday deb? to'gri agar o'zbek tilini tushunmaydigan odam o'sha suhbatda bo'lsa albatta hamma uchun tushunarli tilda gapirish kerak.menimcha masala faqat shu haqda.
boshqa tillarni bilish bu albatta zo'r.
maqol borku:"chelovek kotoriy znayet dva yazika- dvajdi chelovek".
va bilish ham shart deb o'ylayman.
mani yagona fikrim: o'zbekchani bilsangiz o'zbeklar bilan o'zbekcha gaplashing. bo'ldi,agar shuni o'ziga rioya qilsak ham biz ancha ish qilgan bo'lamiz. meni to'gri tushunasizlar deb o'ylayman.
o'zbekcha tushunmaydigan birodarlarimdan men katta uzr so'rayman. men fikrlarimni o'zbek tilida erkin tushuntira olaman holos.
(o'ris maktabda o'qimaganman,ingliz tilini endi BASIC LEVELdan o'rganyapman).aytgancha ertaga manga ingliz tilidan imtihon bor,manga omad tilavoringlar.:)

hammaga muborak ramazon oyida so'glik va tinchlik tilayman. hudo o'zi hato ishlardan saqlasin. birodar bo'laylik

rahmat........

[tinglovchi]

hehe...:)
qattiq charchabmanku.......
oldingi hatimni o'qigan odam "tovuqtutar" deb o'ylasa kerak.
ana silaga rebus. fikrlarni o'zinglar bitta ipga tervolarsizlar...
uzr, qiynab qo'ygan bo'lsam.:):):):):)

10...4...

[johny]

LUNGUAGE IS NOT AN ABSTRACT CONSTRUSTION OF THE LEARNED, OR OF DICTIONARY-MAKERS, BUT IS SOMETHING ARISING OUT OF THE WORK, NEEDS, TIES, JOYS, TASTES OF LONG GENERATIONS OF HUMANITY, AND HAS ITS BASES BROAD AND LOW, CLOSE TO THE GROUND

huh, ne moi slova, pomoemu eto Whitman.
Qisqasi, man boshida yozgan edim, kelajak avlod qiladi deb (see 1st reply), kimdir nima biza qarib qoldikmi degandi, man kelajak avlod deganda o'zimizni nazarda tutgan edim.
Hohlimizami, hohlamimizami bundan qat'iy nazar O'zbekistonda yaqin kelajakda anu aytilgan DELOVOY YAZIK o'zbek tili bo'ladi, tilni bilasanmi GOOD FOR YOU, agar bilmaseng to PARDONTE(orqanga tepib chiqarvorishadi). Yana qaytaraman, bu bizning hohishimizga bog'liq emas.
Shuning uchun man LAWYERga tashvish qilma deganman boshida

johny

[Cute]

Judayam to'g'ri fikr bildirilibdi tushunmovchilik haqida. Mavzuni qanaqa ekanligi haqida tuzatish ham to'g'ri. Oldinroq qayerda edila???

[O'zbek]

Student from US, sen qaydan paydo bo'lding, bu yerda yo'q edingku. Keliboq odamga "Babay", "shovinist" deguncha, mundoq o'zingni ahvolingga qarasang bo'larmidi. Even you can't express your ideas normally, intelligently and in civilized manner.At first, learn how to discuss the things then come back. Shuning uchun, sendaqalarga umuman fikr bildirib o'tirmayman, klaviaturani qiynab.
Papirus, huddi shu gapingni yuzma-yuz turib ayta olasanmi? Sen odamning nafsoniyatiga tegyapsan: "Bug in my computer".Men senga biror laqab qo'ydimmi? Agar juda hohlasang 5 minutda 200 ta qo'yib beraman, hohlagan tilingda.
Innaykeyin, men senga tushuntirgan gaplarimga tushunmayotgan bo'lsang, yoki tushunishni istamasang, bu senga havola, live your life as you like, speak the language you'd love to, but don't say something to depreciate my language and my culture.
Mustafa, you'd better read my earlier messages. I wrote several times that:"Uzbeks, let's speak with each other in our own language." As I know you are from Karakalpakistan, I did not say you anything except that you should know the state language.
Therefore, don't reply immediately if you aren't informed enough about the discussion.
Freestyler, I'm fresh student as you said. But it doesn't mean that I'm writing these things because I miss my homeland. I had the same point of view about this topic while I was in Uzbekistan. And I think, I am not alone. As for jews and russian in your town, did I say you anything to oppose them?
Keyin yana bir gap, men Discussion Boardga o'zimga Virtual Enemy topish uchun kirmaganman. O'zini ota madaniyatli hisoblayotgan muhtaram zotlar, odamlarning nafsoniyatiga tegmay, aqlli va asosli javob yozishni o'rganinglar. Ahir Evropada sovuqqonlik bilan muhokama qilishadiku, haligacha buni o'rganmabsizlar-da.


Salomat bo'linglar, anyway.

[Free...+ponyatno_kto]

To O'zbek:

Firstly, I mentioned jews and russians just as a supportive example to my arguement and I did not complain about your hatred against them because I know there is no such attitude towards them in you (and in all other guys in this discussion thread). I personally disagree with those guys who called you shovinists, I think they are of wrong impression about you and your mates.

Secondly, you don't need to say anything opposing to make them (i.e., russians and jews) flee from our country. It is by pushing the idea of pure uzbek nation, uzbek culture and uzbek language (which would dominate all areas of life in Uzbekistan) that you are making them unwilling to stay in Uzbekistan.
Wasn't that you, O'zbek, who quoted Karimov's favourite uzbek saying "Yangi uy qurmay, eskisini buzma!"? Believe it or not, Uzbek as a language is not yet totally ready to replace russian in Uzbekistan. It is still underdeveloped (a sad fact). And therefore, you first suggest something more viable and only then call for the replacement of other languages in Uzbekistan.
The silly attempts of the uzbek linguists to susbstitute international words for their uzbek equivalent are a good proof of all the hipocricy of such a policy.
You want examples? Here they come:
The respected linguists suggested to replace the word pensioner by nafaqaxo'r. To be honest I think this is a disgrace towards the pensioners. It implies more the meaning of <nahlebnik> or <ijdivenec> in russian (they are intended to put down and have a negative hew).
Another example: attempt to substitute aeroport for tayoragoh. And they think they have found an uzbek equivalent? Rubbish. Both these words have persian roots. I think it is an abusrd to change an international word for another word which is still not uzbek in its whole sense (nothing against the Persian).

Next, I think that indeed we did not fully know what we were all arguing about in this thread. I, for example, also call for a decent respect towards the Uzbek, but I am against those who try to push it and force it to everyone (i.e., I am against those nationalist purists) and I don't relate you to them.

Lastly, I do not support all the cursing that has spread out in several last answers.

Keep it sober

Freestyler

[Cute]

Freestyler i agree with you that translations were awfull, this in fact underlines the need for good specialists in this area. Yea we all arguing about nothing. Topic was about UZBEK umidies who don't respect their language. Nothing to do with pushing uzbek idea, culture and language and etc. All, you guys(may be I'm wrong) know uzbek, write in uzbek, and can speak in uzbek. But strange thing is that people think the topic was attack on every nonuzbek speaker, and ethnic minorities.

[Freestyler]

Nu teper' ya dumayu mi doljni bit' blagodarni Tinglovchi, kotoriy ne polenilsya, prosidel do utra i vsyo taki dokapalsya do yabloka razdora.

Tinglovchi, to'g'ri aytibsiz, "Odnobokiy o'ylagan ekanmiz"

Appreciate that indeed

[Dave]

Mdeeee, zapustili ....


Topic is closed.

da

[Neo311]

нет...
faqat 2 soat qoldi...

[Bizarre]

Vayboo' muncha kop yozmasela:) oqivurip kozlarim achiship ketti:)
LaWER ni postiga fikr bildirmoqchi edim...

Albatta, uzimizni uzbek bollar, qizlar man uzbekcha bilmiman deee, gavari po russki disa juda hunuk korinadi!!! mayli, u tillarni ham organila, english russian, but agar uzbekchada dudug'lanip gaprsela uyat-ku! forumda manga farqi yoq! english, uzbek, russian. a live gaplashvotkanda uzbekcha bo'lsa yahshi bo'ladi. Ayrim davlat idoralarida ishlaydiga ishchilar ruscha englizcha bilip, uzbekcha bilishmaydi, bu SUX deee.

atak boru Uzbek language RuLeZ!:)

Kalomning boshi Assalom deganlaridek
Assalomu alaykum
he rahmat mavzuni juda togrisini tanlabsilar ottalaringa balli umrini bersin!!!

Shu mani bir narsa ajablantiradi, man balki ichlaringdan bazilari bilan Umid fondini Manaviyat sinovlarini topshirganman (eng qiyin guruh hisoblangan A. Oripov guruhida topshirganman). qisqasi shuni demoqchimanki, sinov paytida BULBULUGOYOOO BOLIB OZBEKCHA SAYRAYOTGANLAR QANI, yooo ularni sinov paytida bundai gapirishlari faqatgina hameleonning navbattagi tus(rang-colour-tsvet) almashtirishimi?

YO USHA BULBUL BOLIB SAYRAGANLAR HOZIR OSON HAYOTNI KORIB OZLIKLARINGNI UNUTIB QOYDINGLARMI?


HEE NONKORLIK QILMANGLAR



P.S. bu gapimning asosiy manosi qizim sanga gapirdim kelinim san eshittan boldi mard yigitlar mabodo bundai hislatlarni ozlaringda topa olmasalaring sizlar uchun emas bu, bu hat oz egasini topadi.

[proxy]

to "hafa bo'lgan Lawyer"
from "hafa bo'lgan Lawyer"
: biz international studentlar, bu exception albatta, MANI PROSTA CHATGA

no comments

[ohotnik]

barcha horij oliy oquv dargohlarida rasmiy yozishmalarni orgatishning uslubiyati ishlab chiqilgan iqtisodchilar buni bilsalar kerak(managerial communication business communication, org. behaivourning asosiy qismi)
Mana ichimizda kopchilik bu fanlarni korib chiqdi rasmiy yozishmalarni qay tarzda yozilishi etibor berilishi kerak bolgan jihatlari va hususiyatlari va .....

Gapimning indallosi shundan iboratki ozbek tilida ham Sifatli qilib rasmiy qogozlarni ham toldira olamizmi
yo har ikki jumla orasida
"koroche" "prosto"... larni ham ishlatishdan ozimizni tiya olmaymizmi

Qoshimcha: Proxydan oldin ham ozim yozgan edim lekin oz nomim bilan kirish yoddan kotarilib qobdi.

Fikr mulohazalaringni kutib qolaman,

[MUHLIS]

Ohotnickni gaplariga tolaligicha koshilaman....
Esimda bo " Uzbek tilida ish yuritish" degan kitob bolardi....tarjima paytlarida...va boshka rasmiy kogozlar yozayotgan partlarda osha kitobga kop murojaat kilganman.....Lekin baribir, bu oz, hech bolamasa oliy ma'lumotli kishlar tolik bilishi kerak rasmiy tilni. Men bu borada, otgan asr boshida Jadidlarimiz koldirgan til uslubini eng makbul deb hisoblayman....albatta bu degani tolaligicha osha uslubda kolish kerak degani emas lekin osha til uslubi menga koprok yokadi...yana bilmadim....