View Full Version : Universities urged to spy on Muslims
n0xyl
10-16-2006, 06:15 AM
Universities urged to spy on Muslims
Vikram Dodd
Monday October 16, 2006
The Guardian
Lecturers and university staff across Britain are to be asked to spy on "Asian-looking" and Muslim students they suspect of involvement in Islamic extremism and supporting terrorist violence, the Guardian has learned.
They will be told to inform on students to special branch because the government believes campuses have become "fertile recruiting grounds" for extremists.
The Department for Education has drawn up a series of proposals which are to be sent to universities and other centres of higher education before the end of the year. The 18-page document acknowledges that universities will be anxious about passing information to special branch, for fear it amounts to "collaborating with the 'secret police'". It says there will be "concerns about police targeting certain sections of the student population (eg Muslims)".
The proposals are likely to cause anxiety among academics, and provoke anger from British Muslim groups at a time when ministers are at the focus of rows over issues such as the wearing of the veil and forcing Islamic schools to accept pupils from other faiths.
Wakkas Khan, president of the Federation of Student Islamic Societies, said: "It sounds to me to be potentially the widest infringement of the rights of Muslim students that there ever has been in this country. It is clearly targeting Muslim students and treating them to a higher level of suspicion and scrutiny. It sounds like you're guilty until you're proven innocent."
Gemma Tumelty, president of the National Union of Students, said: "They are going to treat everyone Muslim with suspicion on the basis of their faith. It's bearing on the side of McCarthyism."
The document, which has been obtained by the Guardian, was sent within the last month to selected official bodies for consultation and reveals the full extent of what the authorities fear is happening in universities.
It claims that Islamic societies at universities have become increasingly political in recent years and discusses monitoring their leaflets and speakers. The document warns of talent-spotting by terrorists on campuses and of students being "groomed" for extremism.
In a section on factors that can radicalise students, the document identifies Muslims from "segregated" backgrounds as more likely to hold radical views than those who have "integrated into wider society". It also claims that students who study in their home towns could act as a link between extremism on campuses and in their local communities.
The government wants universities to crack down on extremism, and the document says campus staff should volunteer information to special branch and not wait to be contacted by detectives.
It says: "Special branch are aware that many HEIs [higher education institutions] will have a number of concerns about working closely with special branch. Some common concerns are that institutions will be seen to be collaborating with the 'secret police'.
"HEIs may also worry about what special branch will do with any information supplied by an HEI and what action the police may subsequently take ... Special branch are not the 'secret police' and are accountable."
The document says radicalisation on campus is unlikely to be overt: "While radicalisation may not be widespread, there is some evidence to suggest that students at further and higher educational establishments have been involved in terrorist- related activity, which could include actively radicalising fellow students on campus." The document adds: "Perhaps most importantly, universities and colleges provide a fertile recruiting ground for students.
"There are different categories of students who may be 'sucked in' to an Islamist extremist ideology ... There are those who may be new to a university or college environment and vulnerable to 'grooming' by individuals with their own agenda as they search for friends and social groups; there are those who may be actively looking for extremist individuals with whom to associate. Campuses provide an opportunity for individuals who are already radicalised to form new networks, and extend existing ones."
The document urges close attention be paid to university Islamic societies and - under the heading "inspiring radical speakers" - says: "Islamic societies have tended to invite more radical speakers or preachers on to campuses ... They can be forceful, persuasive and eloquent. They are able to fill a vacuum created by young Muslims' feelings of alienation from their parents' generation by providing greater 'clarity' from an Islamic point of view on a range of issues, and potentially a greater sense of purpose about how Muslim students can respond."
It suggests checks should be made on external speakers at Islamic society events: "The control of university or college Islamic societies by certain extremist individuals can play a significant role in the extent of Islamist extremism on campus."
The document says potential extremists can be talent-spotted at campus meetings then channelled to events off campus.
The document gives five real-life examples of extremism in universities. The first talks of suspicious computer use by "Asian" students, which was reported by library staff. In language some may balk at, it talks of students of "Asian appearance" being suspected extremists.
A senior education department source told the Guardian: "There's loads of anecdotal evidence of radicalisation. At the same time there are people who pushing this who have their own agendas, and the government has to strike the right balance."
Universities urged to spy on Muslims
Vikram Dodd
Monday October 16, 2006
The Guardian
Lecturers and university staff across Britain are to be asked to spy on "Asian-looking" and Muslim students they suspect of involvement in Islamic extremism and supporting terrorist violence, the Guardian has learned.
Honestly...If I was in charge, I would have done the same.
nemets
10-16-2006, 07:35 AM
Good job! They should have started kicking the fundametalist's asses a long time ago.
Maroon
10-16-2006, 11:50 AM
And then they wonder why there is so much anger...I mean all they do is provocate more and more.
PainKiller
10-16-2006, 11:58 AM
Cmmon, means noone was spying after them already?!! It's an insult to my intelligence(c)
Sigma
10-16-2006, 12:02 PM
К добру это не доведет...И так здесь уже все в напряге...
Royal
10-16-2006, 12:26 PM
Ishite Wedmu..
Look for the one to blame...
This is just special compaign to play peoples minds, soon they gonna find couple people to blame so couple students gonna be heros...
so everyone is happy, terrorists are really exist and they been captured by hero students...people belive that ? you can't object when You own kid tells You about..if You do You are the terrorist.
Matrosovi blin
referee
10-16-2006, 12:56 PM
Honestly...If I was in charge, I would have done the same.
so you would start putting in place a regime which stifles freedom of speech and association in a traditionally vibrant community, i.e. universities? That is the way to Stalinism.
I remember when I lived at the uni campus in the UK one of my Irish friend's room was raided several times presumably by secret services. The reason - the guy used to be vocal about IRA's freedom fighting in Ireland when discussing with fellow students. Sometimes his windows were egg-thrown as well. Now, expecting a similar treatment of Muslim students in campuses is not something a Muslims should be hoping for...
referee
10-16-2006, 01:01 PM
Good job! They should have started kicking the fundametalist's asses a long time ago.
One should be cautious what he's asking for - by "kicking the fundamentalists's asses" they may well kick your and my fundamental rights as well:D Therefore, let's handle anything "fundamental" with care:lol:
Frida
10-16-2006, 01:07 PM
[QUOTE=n0xyl;519867]Universities urged to spy on Muslims
Vikram Dodd
Monday October 16, 2006
The Guardian
Lecturers and university staff across Britain are to be asked to spy on "Asian-looking" and Muslim students they suspect of involvement in Islamic extremism and supporting terrorist violence, the Guardian has learned.
QUOTE]
What is the difference now between non-democratic countries and the ones who claim to be democratic? In our univ. in Tashkent teachers used to spy on the guys who "spread" Islam. I remember after explosions in Tashkent several guys from my class were instantly asked by dean to fill out some papers. Teachers used to give a list of students' names who attended Friday prayer.
so you would start putting in place a regime which stifles freedom of speech and association in a traditionally vibrant community, i.e. universities? That is the way to Stalinism.
I remember when I lived at the uni campus in the UK one of my Irish friend's room was raided several times presumably by secret services. The reason - the guy used to be vocal about IRA's freedom fighting in Ireland when discussing with fellow students. Sometimes his windows were egg-thrown as well. Now, expecting a similar treatment of Muslim students in campuses is not something a Muslims should be hoping for...
Freedom doesn't mean encouraging terrorism. You can say and do whatever you want as long as you are not harming anybody else. England has opened the door too wide for some fundamentalist, and that is one of its biggest mistakes. I'm against spying on every individual Muslim student, because that is unfair. The government should take care of some suspeciuos people who show unusual activities. The reason why I support this is because the threat of terrorism is not coming from the IRA or anybody else, its"unfortunatly" from some Muslims.
UzLand
10-16-2006, 01:57 PM
I mean all they do is provocate more and more.
...provoke...:)
UzLand
10-16-2006, 02:00 PM
What is the difference now between non-democratic countries and the ones who claim to be democratic? In our univ. in Tashkent teachers used to spy on the guys who "spread" Islam. I remember after explosions in Tashkent several guys from my class were instantly asked by dean to fill out some papers. Teachers used to give a list of students' names who attended Friday prayer.
There is still a difference. In Britain they are looking into potential terrorists, but in Uzbekistan - into everyone actively practicing Islam. This is a huge difference. And if you are innocent, at least, in the West you can count on the judicial system. In Uzbekistan, don't even think about it.
What is the difference now between non-democratic countries and the ones who claim to be democratic? In our univ. in Tashkent teachers used to spy on the guys who "spread" Islam. I remember after explosions in Tashkent several guys from my class were instantly asked by dean to fill out some papers. Teachers used to give a list of students' names who attended Friday prayer.
Seriously? :? Based on some random story here you are now comparing England to Uzbekistan? :lol: If this story is actually true, it is very stupid. Also, I would like to point out that democracy ,as always, is totally irrelavant to this topic.
referee
10-16-2006, 02:25 PM
Freedom doesn't mean encouraging terrorism. You can say and do whatever you want as long as you are not harming anybody else.
The above is contradictory: how can you square "you can say whatever" with "freedom doesn't mean encouraging terrorism"? Since when "encouraging" is equal to "perfoming" an act? And if this idea has become mainstream, then a greater number of people besides some Muslims must be charged with encouraging terrorism, including Christian supremecists, liberalist interventionists, revolutionary Marxists, anarchists etc! It's a debate about wider issues, so let's not go there.
England has opened the door too wide for some fundamentalist, and that is one of its biggest mistakes.
Forget about a benign England! It did not open any doors but for its natinal interests: they have always harboured rebels, extremists, terrorists for a number of reasons which gave British the power to channel them where they wanted- that is how an empire behaves! Today's empire, USA, harbours hundreds and thousands of terrorists from all over the world, especially Latin America.
The government should take care of some suspeciuos people who show unusual activities. The reason why I support this is because the threat of terrorism is not coming from the IRA or anybody else, its"unfortunatly" from some Muslims.
Again, how do you know how the government "is taking care of" such people? Are there any checks? Moreover, most informed people know the threat from "some Muslims" has been hyper-inflated to pursue various agendas. It's pathetic that more and more Muslims actually start believing the lie that the threat from some loony Muslims is greater than the real and present danger to the world from the intelligent white men in the US and EU! Just make a body count of people dead by the US and British bombs and people who died from hand-made bombs by "some Muslims":shock:
Just to bring this into perspective and exemplify it: I am sure you know why some Uzbeks last century ended up migrating to Saudi, Syria etc? Because the new Communist regime decided to "take care of" suspected Uzbek "fundamentalist elements" who opposed the glorious progressive Socialist revolution peacefully spreading to Central Asia. And you know why some Uzbeks today migrate wherever they can? Because, again, they are suspected of harbouring extremist and anti-constitutional intentions!
The point here is that it is in the nature of any government to employ "the state of emergency" to make its power absolute and on the way to deal with any real or imaginary threat to justify its absolutism. The issue of "Muslim extremism" is just the most potent myth they can sell to the wider population, while usurping more control over Middle East and abroad through "fighting a global terror" by spreading terror.
Frida
10-16-2006, 06:14 PM
Seriously? Based on some random story here you are now comparing England to Uzbekistan? If this story is actually true, it is very stupid. Also, I would like to point out that democracy ,as always, is totally irrelavant to this topic.
Maybe I overreacted about the first part, surely nothing can be compared to Uzb-n's situation. About the second part of your post, lets say that kind of action was really undertaken, hypothetically. Would you still consider that democracy is irrelavant to this topic? I do not think so, in my understanding in the democratic country the individual's rights should be protected, right? Or does it only apply to those who are lucky to be born in this country and all others who are just happen to be students, immigrants (consider only legal ones), etc. are not going to enjoy the same rights?
zanjir
10-16-2006, 07:42 PM
judayam qiziq va ahmaqona yol!
Ozbekistonda Mahalla komiteti qiladigan ishlarku a bular...
esimda Hisbuttahrir chiqganda domlalar huddi shu yolni tutishgan edi Ozbda.
bizdaku unchalik bilanmaydi lekin UK da bu diskrimiaciani yanada kuchayishiga ob keladi. rednecklarga jon bagishladi holos:(
n0xyl
10-17-2006, 12:09 AM
What is the difference now between non-democratic countries and the ones who claim to be democratic? In our univ. in Tashkent teachers used to spy on the guys who "spread" Islam. I remember after explosions in Tashkent several guys from my class were instantly asked by dean to fill out some papers. Teachers used to give a list of students' names who attended Friday prayer.
Вот тогда я случайно не стал жертвой этих провокаций.:evil:
2:216
10-17-2006, 02:20 AM
Nimaga hayron bovossila hech tushunmiman? Ahir, bu narsalar kecha boshlanmaganku. Mana 1400 yildan ham o'rtiq davom etib kelyapti.
The Reaper
10-17-2006, 03:03 AM
I agree with the position of British government.
If a person is not involved in either directly, or indirectly supporting terrorism, then he/she don't have anything to be afraid of. I don't see any freedoms being violated.
TR
The above is contradictory: how can you square "you can say whatever" with "freedom doesn't mean encouraging terrorism"? Since when "encouraging" is equal to "perfoming" an act? And if this idea has become mainstream, then a greater number of people besides some Muslims must be charged with encouraging terrorism, including Christian supremecists, liberalist interventionists, revolutionary Marxists, anarchists etc! It's a debate about wider issues, so let's not go there.
Forget about a benign England! It did not open any doors but for its natinal interests: they have always harboured rebels, extremists, terrorists for a number of reasons which gave British the power to channel them where they wanted- that is how an empire behaves! Today's empire, USA, harbours hundreds and thousands of terrorists from all over the world, especially Latin America.
Again, how do you know how the government "is taking care of" such people? Are there any checks? Moreover, most informed people know the threat from "some Muslims" has been hyper-inflated to pursue various agendas. It's pathetic that more and more Muslims actually start believing the lie that the threat from some loony Muslims is greater than the real and present danger to the world from the intelligent white men in the US and EU! Just make a body count of people dead by the US and British bombs and people who died from hand-made bombs by "some Muslims":shock:
Just to bring this into perspective and exemplify it: I am sure you know why some Uzbeks last century ended up migrating to Saudi, Syria etc? Because the new Communist regime decided to "take care of" suspected Uzbek "fundamentalist elements" who opposed the glorious progressive Socialist revolution peacefully spreading to Central Asia. And you know why some Uzbeks today migrate wherever they can? Because, again, they are suspected of harbouring extremist and anti-constitutional intentions!
The point here is that it is in the nature of any government to employ "the state of emergency" to make its power absolute and on the way to deal with any real or imaginary threat to justify its absolutism. The issue of "Muslim extremism" is just the most potent myth they can sell to the wider population, while usurping more control over Middle East and abroad through "fighting a global terror" by spreading terror.
thank you for clarification. I know that the US and UK are more dangerous than any terrorists, but the point is if you are a british policeman and some muslim extremists are threatening the UK security, who would you chase???
THe british system has always been better than the American. It gives more space for the Muslims and it is more tolerant than the American. On the other side the Muslim community in England has proved that it is the most disceplined community in the UK.
I agree with you that it should not spy on all Muslims, or it shouldn't spy on all of them at all. The thing that should be done is they must pay a little more attention to whats going on. There are some young Good intentions muslims who are drived by some extremists to blow up themselves in the undergound. This must be done with the cooperation with the leaders of the Muslim community in England (e.g: Imams at Mosques, teachers at schools...etc).
Maybe I overreacted about the first part, surely nothing can be compared to Uzb-n's situation. About the second part of your post, lets say that kind of action was really undertaken, hypothetically. Would you still consider that democracy is irrelavant to this topic? I do not think so, in my understanding in the democratic country the individual's rights should be protected, right? Or does it only apply to those who are lucky to be born in this country and all others who are just happen to be students, immigrants (consider only legal ones), etc. are not going to enjoy the same rights?
I've been over this before, but democracy in itself does not ensure any personal freedoms. It means rule by the people and currently there are zero democracies in the world. It is just a catch phrase used by certain people :rolleyes: (another example: freedom :lol: ) to be used as propaganda. I have no idea about England laws, but any human rights would need to be provided under specific laws. Having elections does nothing to protect this. Also, probably 75% of the countries of the world have such laws- they are just not enforced. I also believe Uzbekistan calls itself a democracy and I am sure they have laws protecting individuals rights. Final point- I am sure there is nothing in any country's laws that would prevent this "spying" on other citizens from occurring.
Gareeb
10-17-2006, 09:49 AM
Mutlaqo ajablanmayman.
infolife
10-17-2006, 09:58 AM
I agree with the position of British government.
If a person is not involved in either directly, or indirectly supporting terrorism, then he/she don't have anything to be afraid of. I don't see any freedoms being violated.
TR
4 students have been suspended from my uniersity last year, based on email exchanges and the websites they went on while at university campus.
2 of them were set off free before the trial, the other two were found innocent after the trial. And none got back to the university, u know why- it was like a big issue at the univ and everyone was talking that we had some terrorists among students. Once you are suspended-based on false information-it doesnt matter if you found unguilty afterwards. People are gonna think you linked to terrorists and give you dirty looks.
Is suspending people based on absolutely false information called freedom being violated or something more than that???
They make a big issue when they suspend, after you have been found innocent it only appears somewhere in the corner of the back pages.
Some ppl are just so naive.
THe british system has always been better than the American. It gives more space for the Muslims and it is more tolerant than the American. On the other side the Muslim community in England has proved that it is the most disceplined community in the UK.
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you (because I don't know that much about it), but what are you basing this on? I have never heard anything like this before. If anything I heard the opposite.
referee
10-17-2006, 12:27 PM
but the point is if you are a british policeman and some muslim extremists are threatening the UK security, who would you chase???
That's an irrelevant point, bro, as our concern is more with Muslims as a community and justice as a concept. That is why the point is that we should question the increasing demonising of our community and infringing on our freedomds in the West or elsewhere...
On the other side the Muslim community in England has proved that it is the most disceplined community in the UK.
I don't think it's correct. The most disciplined must be Jewish community, followed by Lesbian/Gay groups in the UK. Muslim community is just forming in the UK, and that is because there's an external and internal threat to it and there is no other way but organising politically...
I don't think it's correct. The most disciplined must be Jewish community, followed by Lesbian/Gay groups in the UK. Muslim community is just forming in the UK, and that is because there's an external and internal threat to it and there is no other way but organising politically...
I don't know what you have understood by disciplined, but my meaning was:
"obeying rules and contolling your behaviour." and that's something we should be proud of.
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you (because I don't know that much about it), but what are you basing this on? I have never heard anything like this before. If anything I heard the opposite.
it's based on how they treat Muslims. For example here in Saudi Arabia you get humiliated in the American embassy in order to get your visa to the US, but it is much better with the British Embassy. Another example is Guantanamo, the British doesn't have something like that. In London it os usual to see Arabs with their costums, you can't see that in the US.
dilbert
10-17-2006, 02:59 PM
I can agree what Aziz is saying. I am living here in a "Muslim hotspot" and everything is really like in Pakistan or Kashmir. Maybe one third of the people wear western clothes.
There are also many new-built mosques on central places. I only thought in the US it is similar. I remember a photo of young girl from Pakistan in Michigan showing their new driving license with the pass photo wearing a head scarf.
I think British authorities are still divided on how to act. After the London bombings, e.g., police in the Midlands ordered 2000 green ribbons to be worn by police officers on their arm when on the street to show sympathy with Muslim people and give them confidence.
PS:
That's my first posting here. I came to here because I like music from Uzbekistan, over all Ozoda Nursaidova and Yulduz Usmanova. I also had always a strong interest in the history of Central Asia.
I have very few knowledge of Uzbek, a little bit more Russian, but not sufficient, too.
My best wishes to all of you. Assalamu aleykum!
infolife
10-18-2006, 03:29 AM
I can agree what Aziz is saying. I am living here in a "Muslim hotspot" and everything is really like in Pakistan or Kashmir. Maybe one third of the people wear western clothes.
There are also many new-built mosques on central places. I only thought in the US it is similar. I remember a photo of young girl from Pakistan in Michigan showing their new driving license with the pass photo wearing a head scarf.
I think British authorities are still divided on how to act. After the London bombings, e.g., police in the Midlands ordered 2000 green ribbons to be worn by police officers on their arm when on the street to show sympathy with Muslim people and give them confidence.
PS:
That's my first posting here. I came to here because I like music from Uzbekistan, over all Ozoda Nursaidova and Yulduz Usmanova. I also had always a strong interest in the history of Central Asia.
I have very few knowledge of Uzbek, a little bit more Russian, but not sufficient, too.
My best wishes to all of you. Assalamu aleykum!
Do you really live in Yorkshire??? That's probably why you haven't felt the pressure much and feel that muslims are more respected here than it is in the UK because they can stick to their own lifestyle???
If arabs can wear their costumes and women their hijabs-how the h... it is supposed to mean that UK goverment treat British Muslims well? It's crap logic, am sorry:?
The UK goverment is N1 in the world to support the US foreign policy, Blair never objects anythinf Bush says or does. Jack Straw, John Reid-all the politicians in Foreign Office always belittle muslims in their speech,show them as terrorists increasing Islamophobia. What are you based on to say muslims are better treated in the UK? I always hear the opposite.
Black
10-18-2006, 05:00 AM
4 students have been suspended from my uniersity last year, based on email exchanges and the websites they went on while at university campus.
2 of them were set off free before the trial, the other two were found innocent after the trial. And none got back to the university, u know why- it was like a big issue at the univ and everyone was talking that we had some terrorists among students. Once you are suspended-based on false information-it doesnt matter if you found unguilty afterwards. People are gonna think you linked to terrorists and give you dirty looks.
Is suspending people based on absolutely false information called freedom being violated or something more than that???
They make a big issue when they suspend, after you have been found innocent it only appears somewhere in the corner of the back pages.
Some ppl are just so naive.
Unga gapirganingizdan foyda yo'q. Boshi og'rimagan boshi og'riyotgan odamni ahvolini qayerdanam bilardi. O'zini namoz o'qigani yoki soqol qo'ygani uchun Unersitetda har kuni so'roqqa tutishganida edi, yoki dekanat/rektoratga chaqirib, bir nimalarni yozdirib olishsa edi, tushunardi gap nimadaligini. Begunohmisan, begunohmasmisan, terroristmisan, terrorist emasmisan, hozir buni farqi yo'q. Musulmonmisan tamom seni tekshirishlari, ketingni kavlashlari aniq. Bitta UK damas, butun dunyoda. Musulmonlarga nisbatan "Guilty unless proven innocent" degan qoida ishlatiladi hozir. Shuning uchun bunaqalarga gapirishdan foyda yo'q. Birdan bir yo'l musulmonlar birlashib, Islomga qaytishi. Boshqa gap so'zlar, kofirlardan musulmonlarni huquqlarini talab qilishlar 1 pulga qimmat. Ular bizlarni hech qachon hurmat qilmagan, qilmaydi ham.
anatoliydaev
10-18-2006, 05:10 AM
http://www.newsru.com/religy/18oct2006/ramadan.html
SAMARKANDI!
10-18-2006, 09:28 AM
i think, this is already going on, here in the US, for quite a while.
There is an Aviation School at my University, in fact one of the best in the World, so Saudis come here more than any other international students:). They are always on the spot. I remember them telling me about some strange things. They have unbelievably nice and extremely communicative american friends (usually americans here up in North are not so sociable:)) all the time sticking around with them:)
They are tired of that so much, poor Saudis always have to sit at home and smoke waterpipe:lol:
p.s. Bu itlar hali beri tuhtamedi musulmonlarni qonini ichishdan
i think, this is already going on, here in the US, for quite a while.
There is an Aviation School at my University, in fact one of the best in the World, so Saudis come here more than any other international students:). They are always on the spot. I remember them telling me about some strange things. They have unbelievably nice and extremely communicative american friends (usually americans here up in North are not so sociable:)) all the time sticking around with them:)
They are tired of that so much, poor Saudis always have to sit at home and smoke waterpipe:lol:
p.s. Bu itlar hali beri tuhtamedi musulmonlarni qonini ichishdan
The only thing I wonder is how they didn't know about the September 11th plot then. The stories I always here are Arabs at a flight school that were not interested in take off or landing. :? Were they not following people around then? Sounds too weird for me. Also, why are there so many saudis at American flight schools? They don't have flight schools in Saudi Arabia? :shock:
SAMARKANDI!
10-18-2006, 09:44 AM
The only thing I wonder is how they didn't know about the September 11th plot then. The stories I always here are Arabs at a flight school that were not interested in take off or landing. :? Were they not following people around then? Sounds too weird for me. Also, why are there so many saudis at American flight schools? They don't have flight schools in Saudi Arabia? :shock:
The fact and the answer to ur first Question are that they knew about the plot. Pal, kmmon, u have got be kidding me, there are tons of evidence that they(US Gov) had the knowledge.
They have some schools in Saudi Arabia but they dont have the same technology as americans do here. They are very well interested in landing and take offs. And as i mentioned above the school in question is one of the best in the world.
p.s. Just this present Gov sucks for fulll 10000%
And as i mentioned above the school in question is one of the best in the world.
offtop- every school in the US says they are one of the best in the world :lol: :lol: :lol: I can't believe it anymore. Also, you would think Saudis could build something better in their own country with all their money instead of investing in the US so much. :rolleyes: There investments make up some absurd portion of the US economy.
SAMARKANDI!
10-18-2006, 09:59 AM
offtop- every school in the US says they are one of the best in the world :lol: :lol: :lol: I can't believe it anymore. Also, you would think Saudis could build something better in their own country with all their money instead of investing in the US so much. :rolleyes: There investments make up some absurd portion of the US economy.
About the off-top, if u dont believe me u can visit the school:) and check it out personally:lol: I am talking about only Aviation School, we have other schools which are weaker. This is the University:)
As far as i know Saudi investments take a huge part of the whole US economy bigger than any other foreign country's. Reasons are more than enough, it maintains the "freindship" ties with the strongest power in the world, a good older brother to protect, stable market to invest and grow and many many other things, dont have time to list all of them.
Even if they bought all these technologies right now in Saudi Arabia, they dont have the good, profecional, personal to teach with that technology.
However they are inversting into that as well, they are trying at present, in SA to replace their foreing teachers with their own and bring more of their own better educated ones, it takes time, but they started:) I witenssed that in person:)
They don't have flight schools in Saudi Arabia? :shock:
no, we don't have.
My father works for the Saudi Arabian Airlines and its the only place Saudis can work as pilots. All we have here are some simulators for professional pilots training.
SAMARKANDI!
10-18-2006, 04:26 PM
no, we don't have.
My father works for the Saudi Arabian Airlines and its the only place Saudis can work as pilots. All we have here are some simulators for professional pilots training.
Wrong:)) may be u r saudi but u have missed some things::) there r some schools, as i have seen, and Airlines are not the ONLY place to work for pilots. ARAMCO employes pilots too:)
dilbert
10-18-2006, 05:34 PM
Do you really live in Yorkshire??? That's probably why you haven't felt the pressure much and feel that muslims are more respected here than it is in the UK because they can stick to their own lifestyle???
If arabs can wear their costumes and women their hijabs-how the h... it is supposed to mean that UK goverment treat British Muslims well? It's crap logic, am sorry:?
The UK goverment is N1 in the world to support the US foreign policy, Blair never objects anythinf Bush says or does. Jack Straw, John Reid-all the politicians in Foreign Office always belittle muslims in their speech,show them as terrorists increasing Islamophobia. What are you based on to say muslims are better treated in the UK? I always hear the opposite.
Yes, I really live in Yorkshire. And there are very few Arabs here. Most people are from Pakistan or Kashmir, and some from Afghanistan.
I also know what polititians are saying. But on street, and in the business world, there are no restrictions like in Germany or France.
Surely, there are attempts to raise hostility among people, but until now, you always could ignore them. Reality is on the street and not in a parliament or in the TV news. Parliament and TV news try to change reality, but let's see what the future brings.
You know guys, the Islamphobia and terrorism was created by the western powers. If you have looked at the September 11 video then you will realised that all this was well planned to break up the Muslim world and her nation. Did you know that below the WTC there were gold ingots that were quickly taken away during the so called bombing. Actually, the West has deceived us all in many ways and most of their leaders are Illuminatis. I think I must let you guys see the videos for yourself and decide what is the truth.
Swordfish
10-21-2006, 05:39 AM
4 students have been suspended from my uniersity last year, based on email exchanges and the websites they went on while at university campus.
2 of them were set off free before the trial, the other two were found innocent after the trial. And none got back to the university, u know why- it was like a big issue at the univ and everyone was talking that we had some terrorists among students. Once you are suspended-based on false information-it doesnt matter if you found unguilty afterwards. People are gonna think you linked to terrorists and give you dirty looks.
Is suspending people based on absolutely false information called freedom being violated or something more than that???
They make a big issue when they suspend, after you have been found innocent it only appears somewhere in the corner of the back pages.
Some ppl are just so naive.
which is your university?
this thing all depends on the university it self
for example there is no way they will succeed with this at Manchester University, just they cant handle it...
rubbish thing to do..
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.