Azan

[Ricky]

Salom rebyata,
Chto vi dumayete na schet azana v Uzbekistane?
Ya dumayu ne nado bilo uberat' azani..
best wishes

[sash]

Ya dumayu chto mnogiye tak dumayut, a nemnogiye nesoglasnu so mnogimi kotoruye
dumyut chto nemnogiye ochen oshibayutsye v svoih soobrjeniyah so mnogimi

[SUN6500]

In my opinion, religion should be a private issue for each and everyone. It shouldn't be overimposing and overwhelming despite people's feelings. Uzbekistan is a multi-ethnic country with people practicing different religions as well as secular ones. Therefore, it was a right move to ban azan because it infringes on other peoples beliefs and preferences.

[qwerty]

SUN6500 u're right that religion should be a private issue for each and everyone. But then the goverment also has to ban chimes in the churches because "it infringes on other peoples beliefs and preferences" thus treating everyone same.

No offence intended,
just contemplating

Alex

[dilmi]

Salom.

Ya soglasen s vami, v tom chto Uzbekistan ne yavlyayetsya Islamskoy respublikoy, po konstitutsii, eta respublika - demokraticheskaya.

Bolee togo ya ubejden nashe strane ne vigodno bit Islamskoy respublikoy... mnogo ochen sotsialnih i politicheskih argumentov protiv Islama v nashe strane, no v toje vremya ya ponimayu chto eta strana obladayet bogatim kulturnim potentsialom, i tot fact (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uz.html) chto 88% naseleniya yavlyayetsya musulmanami mojet stat faktorom (siloy) dlya izmeneniya gosudarsvennogo stroya, chto konechno je ochen ne realno.

Zapret "Azana" (v kakoy-to stepeni) yesho raz potverjdayet chto Uzbekistan ne budet Islamskoy respublikoy, tak kak uje bilo skazano v Uzbekistane projivayet ochen razlichniy kontingent etnicheskih grup.

Zaklyucheniye: Uzbekistan doljen stremitsya k demokraticheskim preobrazovaniyam!

S uvajeniyem,

[bubu]

mde dilmi
stoko skazal no nihera ne ponyatno
ya je govoril ti samiy bol'shoy demagog na MB:)

[Student]

Hi folks,

ubrat ili ne ubrat Azan po moem ne imet bolshogo znacheniya, mne naprimer na nervi deytvuet esli kto-to utrom po gromkogovoritelyu so svoim 'priyatnom' golosem shto-to oret na arabskom.

Bud eto azan ili kakayata muzika ili eshe shto-to eshe shumnoe, eto ne normalno, puskay tot kto molitsya postavit sebe budilnik i sam vstaet, ne chego drugih budit dumaya toko o svoem komforte.

P.S.
do we have other things to disscuss besides religion? maybe we shall open a new board for religious discussions?

religiyu, lyubov, sex vse eti temi mozhno diskutirovat bezkonechno, no kakogo tolka ot etogo??

[Joha]

Hi folks...
Just one thing to tell:
Allohu Al'am!!!

take care...

[Alcapone]

UniversaL,
U menya k tebe vopros, Ti govorish chto Uzbekistan demokraticheskaya respublika. Ty hot' znayesh kakiye atributy u demokraticheskoy respubliki? Ty hot' znayesh chto takoye slovo demokratia? Democracy (Greek demos,"the people"; kratein, "to rule"), political system in which the people of a country rule through any form of government they choose to establish. Nezabivay chto 85% naseleniya Uzbekistana musulmane.
Islam always respects other religions. Don't confuse Wahhabism and Islam.
best wishes,

[Teacher]

Student,
yesli tebe po utram ne hochetsa stavat' eto tvoi problemy..
a na kokoyu temu hochesh diskussiyu delat' torchok?

with LOVE,
lover

[wolf]

joha, du sprichst mir aus der seele!..

[Not important]

85% musul'mane - procent ne real'niy.
Yego opredelyali po prinadlejnosti k nacii. Naprimer yesli ti uzbek- to ti schitaeyshsya musul'maninom, takje kak yesli bi ti bil tadjikom, kazakhom, turkmenom, kirgizom ili tatarinom ili irancem. Yesli ti yevropeyec -to ti sootvetstvenno christianin.

Izvestno, chto samaya rassprostrannyonaya religiya - christianstvo (po-moyemu okolo 2 mlrd vo vsyom mire, ateistami kak takogo ne registriruyutsya).
Odnako ya uveren yesli bi oni schitali istinno-veruyushih i soblyudayushih religiyu, ih chislo padyot namnogo nije musul'man.

V real'nosti je praktikuyushih Islam v nashey strane ya dumayu naberyotsya ne boleye 10%.

AFAIK, v moyom gorode Azan ne zapreshyalii, prosto ubrali gromkogovoriteli.

[IcyCool]

Not Imortant, soglasen, uzbek not always means mulsim.

[sanjar]

Salom ba hama!

Ricky & Co., rebyata, 'Azan' nikto ne zapreschal! Prosto, kak uzhe skazal Not important, ubrali gromkogovoriteli. ;)

[Ricky]

Ya dumayu Uzbekistan zhivyot period of old Turkey.. that is true
thanks

[Ricky]

NotImportant,
if the goverment of Uzbekistan let them practice, I am sure they will practice..
It doesn't matter they are muslim by name or they practice Islam..the fact is they are muslim.
that is all..
Very little people practice Christianity but there are a lot of them on the world.
They drink , they eat pork but Bible doesn't say to drink alchohol or eat pork. they don't practice either..
so it is not a question about the practicing.
thanks

[scorpio]

Birinchi o'rinda savolim bor:
Officialno Azonni aytish man etiladi degan qonun chiqdimi ?

Menimcha bu noto'gri. Ichimizda ko'pchilik qishloqda bo'lgan bo'lsa kerak. O'zbekistonning aholisini 60% ti qishlqoda yashaydi. Shu paytgacha men qishloqlarda Azon biron biriga halaqit berganini ko'rmaganman. Odamlar namozdan tashqari Azon chaqirishiga qarab kunini belgilashardi, haqiqatdan ham budilnik sifatida edi.
Shaharlarda esa menimcha Azon hammaga eshitiladigan qilib aytilmas edi. Shuning uchun Azondan uncha odamlarga zarar yoq edi.

Universalning Demokratiya degan gapiga comment:
USA dunyoning eng demokratik mamlakatlaridan biri. Bizni universitetda ramazon oyi ichida Azon chaqirishadi hammaga eshittirib (kolonkalar orqali). Menimcha mana bu haqiqiy demokratiya.
Shu paytgacha USAni hech kim Islom davlati degani yoq :-).

Tag'in hamma o'zi biladi, hammani o'zining boshi bor ammo bir narsa aniq hamma ishda MEYOR yahshi.

Azizbek

[dilmi]

Salom.

Alcapone: privoju primer - "ne kajdaya ptitsa sposobna sorintirivatsya viydya na svobodu ".

Na primere Uzbekestana ili daje drugoy post-sovetskoy strani (...bolshinstvo kotorih bili pod vliyaniyem Rossiyskoy Imperii do Sovtskoy vlasti, v to vremya kak demokratiya bila v stadii razvitii v razvitih stranah...) demokratiya DOLJNA ponimatsya v ramkah yeyo stanovleniya!...

Nadeyus vi teper ponimayete chto ya imeyu vvidu pod: "Uzbekistan doljen stremitsya k demokraticheskim preobrazovaniyam!"

Scorpio: O'zingiz yahshi bilasiz, Umidchilar (:)) oqivotgan mamlakatlardagi demokratiya u yerda yashavotgan halq va millatning madaniyati va urf-odatlariga zit bolmagan tarzdadir. Shunday ekan, u yerdagi demokratiyani boshqa mamlakatlarda tatbiq etaolmasligi shundan bo'lsa kerak, va shu uchun demokratiya har hil shaklda bo'ladi!

Hulosa: O'zbekistondagi demokratiyani Amerika yoki Buyuk Britaniya demokratiyasiga taqqoslab, bizning mamlakatimizda demokratiya yoq deyish noo'rin va notog'ridir.
Yana bir marotaba: O'zbekistonda, demokratiya rivojlanishni boshdan kechirishi kerak. Bu uchun, fuqaro eng kamida o'z haq-huquqlarini bilishi va ularni himoya qilishi kerak..

[scorpio]

Kim O'zbekistonda Demokratiya yoq dedi ? Men mi ? Men aytganim yoq. Men aytdim ki USA da Azon chaqirishsa ham baribir demokratiya bo'lyabdi, nima uchun endi O'zbekistonda Azon chaqirishsa demokratiyaga zid bo'ladi degan savol qo'ygan edim holos. Konstituciya bo'yicha har bir inson hohlagan dinga kirihi mumkin, va o'z diniy marosimlarini bajarishi mumkin. Shuning uchun sizning gaplaringiz bir biriga teskari chiqyabdi holos.


Azizbek

[Kentano]

ya soglasen s scorpio...
on sto na dvesti prav
best wishes

[SUN6500]

Alex, what church chimes ? The ones that tell you the time ? Quite perhaps it does have a religious connotation but no one calls into a church over a loudspeaker (at least not in US).

Cheers,

SUN6500

[qwerty]

SUN6500,

Students from Samarkand remember that university is located right next to the church (or the church is located next to university - don't know which one was built first). Tak vot inogda no ne kazhdiy den' bil slishen gromkiy zvon kolokolov prodolzhaushiysya kak minimum 5 minut a mozhet i bol'se. Voobshe to zanimatsya eto meshalo no ya nikogda ne bil protiv etogo tak kak ponimayu i uvazhau obryadi i obichai vseh ludey.
A naschet azana schitau shto sdelali pravil'no chto ubrali gromkogovoriteli, no ne stoit ih ubirat' ih po prazdnikam, a to pomnu posledniy raz kogda bil tam (Ruza hait) vobshe mullu ne slishno bilo - ne to shto bi ya tak veru kazhdomu slovu mulli - prosto mne bilo zhalko starikov...

[SUN6500]

Da, kajetsa ti prav...xotja, nu ti znaesh kak u nas "Ozbekka sallani olib kel desa, kallani olib keladi."

[arbuzik]

Birodarlar (va og'aynilar)!

Bir musulmon o'laroq shuni aytishim mumkinki, azonning baland ovoz bilan chaqirilishining ta'qiqlanishi Islomiy nuqtai nazardan olib qaraganda YAXSHI EMAS!

Hech ko'zimning oldidan ketmaydi, azon ta'qiqlangan (baland aytilishi ta'qiqlangan) kunning ertasiga TV da "elim deb, yurtib deb yonib yashaydigan" jurnalistlarimiz ushbu "qonun"ni qo'llab-quvvatlash maqsadida bir 50 yoshlarga borib qolgan "nuroniy", sochiga oq oralagan kishidan interv'yu olyapti:
Jurnalist: - Kechirasiz, Prezidentimizning ushbu farmonlariga siz qanday yondashasiz?
Kishi: - Juda to'g'ri fikr. Ba'zan ertalab baland ovozda aytilishi odamlarni halovatini buzadi, uyqusini qochiradi. Vaholangki, bizning mamlakatimiz ko'p millatli halq. Qolgan dindagilarning ham hurmatini joyiga qo'yish kerak...va hokazo.

O'sha odam aslida uyalishi kerak, mening fikrimcha. Azon odamlarni g'aflat bosib yotmaslikka, saharlab turib Alloh ta'aloning beradigan rizqlariga oshiqishi kerak...
Ko'p millatlilik, boshqa dindagilarning hurmatiga keladigan bo'lsak, ULAR BIZNING DINNI (HAQQIROST) HURMAT QILYAPTILARMI KI BIZ HAM ULARNING DININI HURMAT QILSAK. Masalan, Germaniya yoki Angliyada ertalab ham, kechqurun ham qo'ng'iroqlar zang urib odamlarning "halovatini buzadi". U yerlarda musulmonlar yo'qmi? Ularning diniga bo'lgan hurmat qay ahvolda?

Qaysidir og'aynimiz yuqorida aytib o'tdi, O'zbekistonda haqiqiy musulmonlar atigi 10% ham kam.
Ushbu gapga qo'shilaman, va yana ta'kidlab o'tamanki,
O'ZBEK DEGANI MUSULMON DEGANI EMAS.
Qur'oni Karimni tarjimasida ham (Alovuddin Mansur), biz oyatni sharxlab o'tilayotganda ushbu gap ta'kidlab o'tilgan.

Ba'zilar dinni TAXRIF qilyaptilar (ya'ni haqiqiy ma'nosidan boshqa ma'noda ishlatyaptilar).
Bu yaxshi emas, javobi QATTIQ!

E'tiboringiz uchun rahmat,
arbUZik

[not important]

I don't think that banning azan will lead to desired results, in fact it might netrual relegious people against the government. Banning azan is not a solution to a problem. The fact that might seem too offensive to most of us is that we have too many low minded and uneducated people. It is very easy to manupulate them, they dont have their own point of view. Relegios extremists take advantage of this. I think people should be educated. And this education should not be baised in favor of goverment or in favor of any agency. People should be tought and told facts, I mean not those facts that they shove in Axbarot(pile of crap). Goverment should not be scared to tell them that uzb is NOT one of the developed country with high potential, and some attempts that were directed to improve it failed but that they are doing their best. I am sure that people will understand. Goverment should encourage people to do their best also. And the central brainwashing machinery of Uzbekistan(media people should stop their ass licking).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is educate people and let them do right chose instead of forcing them to make their choice

[not important]

I don't think that banning azan will lead to a desired results, in fact it mightturn netrual relegious people against the government. Banning azan is not a solution to a problem. The fact that might seem too offensive to most of us is that we have too many low minded and uneducated people. It is very easy to manupulate them, they dont have their own point of view. Relegios extremists take advantage of this. I think people should be educated. And this education should not be
baised in favor of goverment or in favor of any agency. People should be tought and told facts,I mean not those facts that they show in Axbarot(pile of crap). Goverment should not be scared to tell people that uzb is NOT one of the developed countries and that as of now we dont have high potential, and some attempts that were directed to improve this situatin failed.They also should say that they are doing their best. I am sure that people will understand. Goverment should encourage people to do their best also. And the central brainwashing machinery of Uzbekistan(media people should quit their ass licking jobs).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is Goverment should educate people and let them do right chose instead of forcing them to make their choice

[sanjar]

Dear Not Important,

I quite like your ideas, bro/sis. I think you should change your nick to something 'important' ;)

You said:

... Goverment should not be scared to tell people that... we dont have high potential. Goverment should encourage people to do their best...

Well, as far as I understand, me-friend, you want to kill people's HOPE and at the same time you want to ENCOURAGE them? How come? Where is the logic? Or probably you have any suggestions to encourage people?

p.s. I understand and agree with you that 'the rule of law' should prevail.

Neutral SJ

[arbUzik]

Dear NOT IMPORTANT,

"....we have too many low minded and uneducated people."

I agree with you, but don't forget that these low minded and uneducated people study and work harder than so-called "high minded and educated" people, they help THE NATION more...
They do not sell themselves for some amount of US dollars as "high minded, educated" people!.... because they have a fair of Allah SWT.!

"It is very easy to manupulate them,"
Sorry, mate! Your so-called "high minded and educated" people are easy controllable with US dollars :)

"they dont have their own point of view."
They DO have own point of view. The point of view gathers these people in one AIM, but the AIM is declared as "extremism" by munafiqs and kafirs!

"I think people should be educated."
Agree, "high minded and educated" people ;)

U can NOT democratise the media in Uzbekistan, if consequence of events continue like this....:)

Thanx fo yr attention,
arbUzik :)

[Alcapone]

yashasin Mustaqil O'zbekiston!
salomat

[not important]

Response to Sanjar and arbuzik,

1)TO Sanjar: Well th
U said:"Well, as far as I understand, me-friend, you want to kill people's HOPE and at the same time you
want to ENCOURAGE them? How come? Where is the logic?"

Well there is logic, I told before that gov of uzb should educate people and tell them facts. Telling them that "X viloyati pahta planini normadan ortiq bajardi, Y viloyatida yengi musorni qayta ishlash korhonasi ishga tushdi, or Z jamoa hojaligidagi Oltaboy isimli sigir 4ta buzoq tug'di" is not an encouregment
Tell people that situation as of now is f#cked up, because of this,this and this and if you do X and Y it will help improve the curent situation" Of course before attempting to do this we have to upbring the feeling of responsibility. Impose the laws, force people, and officials to stop stealing from goverment(cut f*cking hands if necessary)




2)To arbuzik: sorry man you got me all wrong:what I meant by low minded people is not the people who work on the fields or do dirty jobs, there are some very smart people among them. By low minded people I ment the people who lick somebody's ass, have really high positions and know they dont deserve it so try to please everybody just to stay in their chair. And $$$ are their priority, they know that they are not gonna hold that place for a long term so they will try to make most out of it. But it is not their fault it is all in our uzbek blood and culture. That is why I am really against religion and traditionalism. Let people that wnat to practice them to practice but dont force them to practice or not. If somebody decides not to greet someone older by standing on his knees dont ****en judge them. if somebody doesnt help somebody, it is not bussines of mahalla komiteti to penalize. And if I am uzbek and dont believe in Allah or any other fiction it is purely my business, and if there is allah he will punish me not mahallakom.

Point is give people more freedom, freedom to think and enforce ****ing laws that are already rusted. If they know that thy cant be punished for thinking or protesting than it would be harder to steal from goverment(people). Thanks!

[Not Important (first)]

<Sanjar>, could you distinguish between <Not important> and <not important>.

<not important>, now there are two of us.

Ok, you stay with your current nick. I'm in fact <Freestyler>, but had difficulties logging on, whcih is why I've used another (Not Important) nick.

Cheers

[arbUzik]

Dear NOT IMPORTANT! :)

I'd like to disagree with you on some of your points.

"But it is not their fault it is all in our uzbek blood and culture. That is why I am really against religion and traditionalism."

Sorry, mate, Uzbek blood is not so "dirty" which you think! And religion DOES prohibit bribery and other bad actions in society. There could be misunderstanding, and this misunderstanding leads kafirs (unbelievers) to fight agaist religion.
For example, in Islam, everyone (who is rich enough) have to support his relatives, BUT this support should be from HIS wealth, NOT from NATION's wealth.
Tradition is mostly formed by religion, so I don't think Our Tradition does NOT let bribery and other so-called stuff.

BUT, some followers (of religion or tradition) MAY do mistake. SO, BEAR IN MIND that this mistake is NOT religions or tradition's mistake, BUT only those who practice (follow) incorrectly!

"Let people that wnat to practice them to practice but dont force them to practice or not. "
I don't bother with other religions, but in Islam one can NOT force someone to practice Islam whilst the man is unbeliever. BUT if one converts to Islam, but does not practice, THEN he/she could be forced. Not by everyone on street, BUT only from imam of mosque and etc. We believe that one who was forced will be happy in HEAVEN, even though he is angry now.

"If somebody decides not to greet someone older by standing on his knees"
None greet someone on his knees! It's haram! Creatures stands on their knees ONLY WHEN they are remembering their Creator (SWT)!
To me, you, mate, you overestimated...

"dont ****en judge them."
Please be polite, isn't being polite among others a part of DEMOCRACY?

"if somebody doesnt help somebody, it is not bussines of mahalla komiteti to penalize."
This is our way of life. This leads to purifying of society. If you don't like the society, DEMOCRATICALLY, you are FREE to move to the so-called DEMOCRATIC place.

"And if I am uzbek and dont believe in Allah"
Astag'furullah.

"or any other fiction it is purely my business, and if there is Allah he will punish me not mahallakom."

If you don't have enough knowledge, don't bother in religious topics like this.

According to Islam, if someone (Muslim) does something bad (wrong), others SHOULD correct him. I don't think our mahallakoms are religious, but it's their duty to warn you, because your actions may spoil others' attitudes (for example, children).

Cheers,
arbUZik ;)

[kentano]

mmdddddeee Arbuzik!

[Alpacino]

Kto nebut' znayet chto v tashkente otkryli Islamskiy Universit'et?

[Harakiri]

Po-moyemu vse zanyut

Rektor - Karomatov, ministr po delam duhovnosti i prosvetitel'stva, sovetnik Prezidenta (yesli ne oshibayus')

[hiden]

asan bu xayot edi.asan dinimizning esasi edi.uni olgandan keyin dindan nima xam&ouml; qolardi.kimlar bezovta bolayapdi dep buni qilish katta xato boldi.umid qilamizki yana devom etadi.kuchimiz birlikda.asan bizni birlashtirib turgandi.nu xozircha unchalik bolmasa xam.mayli .

[Alpacino]

Azon b'olib turgani yaxshi edi, t'ogri aytasiz

[student]

Not important
a ti che dumaesh vse eti 2 mlrd hristiani v mire
normalnie hristani t.e. v nature veryat vHrista i poseshayut tserkvami? podumay prejde chem chto nibud skazat

[Alpacino]

Student,
Ya stoboy soglasen'. Eti rebyata ne hotyat chto to nauchitsa, oni dlya spora sporyat.
best wishes

[Alpacino]

pro Azane vse zabyli, ne horosho rebyata!