Vipolneniye UMIDovskih Kontraktov

[neponyal]

Hey guys,

Ya cho to ne ponyal. Pochemu sredi umidovtsev yest' studenti kotoriye rabotayut v SShA posle okonchaniya uchyobi. Naschyot "studenti" ya ne znayu no nedavno ya uslishal pro odnogo takogo - Kodir Norov. Mne skazali chto on stajiruyetsya v Morgan Stainley Dean Witter na dva goda. No rebyata s Morgan Stainley govoryat chto on ne stajer tam a rabotnik. Eto mojno tak vsem ostavatsya stajirovatsya v Investment Banks ili eto tol'ko dlya Norova. Pozhaluysta proyasnite.

Bolee togo, chto eto za fignya!!! Yesli v kontrakte ukazivayetsya chto po okonchanii uchyobi student dolzhen vernutsya, pochemu on ne vozvrashayetsya?

Takje, chto budet yesli ryadovoy student posupit takje? Bili li sluchayi kogda student sostavlyayli s UMIDom graphiki viplati zatrachennih deneg? (K stati, ya slishal chto norov nichego ne viplachival).

Blya muzhiki v Nature Nespravedlivo!!!

[Sashok]

U nas mnogo chyo ne spravedlivo. A naschyot Norovo odno mogu skazat'. Bili bi u menya toje takiye svyazi ya bi i na 4 goda ostalsya:)

[dspr]

Vo pervih, nelzya nazivat' konkretniye imena, osnovivayas tolko lish na tom chto ti "gde to chto to uslishal". Yesli uje nazval konkretniye familii i podstavil pod somneniye reputatsiyu odnogo iz studentov, to luchshe pokaji dokazatelstvo togo chto on deystvitelno vinovat, a yesli ne mojesh, to izvinis' hotya bi pered nim. Budem nadeyaysya chto on primet tvoyo izvineniye. A na scheot kontrakta, to tama mogut bit razniye varianti. Nu naprimer, on ustroilsya na rabotu v odnom iz gosucherejdeniy Uzbekistana, a tama, eto ucherejdeniye reshilo poslat' yego v USA dlya polzi dela. To yest' on tolko vipolnyayet svoy kontrakt. Ili, yesli interesuyet drugoy vozmojniy variant, to v kontrakte yasno skazanno, chto yesli mi ne vipolnyayem yego, to doljni budem oplatit vse rashodi fonda UMID +%s. Mojet on i reshil tak postupit. Rebyata, davayte ne perehodit na personalities, vo pervih, tak kak iz-za kakogo to neobosnovannogo somneniya mojet isportitsya sudba cheloveka. A vo vtorih, yesli vas interesuyet postupok cheloveka, nejli on sam, to luchshe skontsentrirovat'sya na etom.
Vot i vse.

Udachi,
dspr.

[mania]

all animals are equal, some animals are more equal.
take care
PS the phrase "animals" is just a metafora:)

[tsone]

tochno ne uveren ne govori

[Desperado]

Rebyata - mne nujna vasha pomosh
esli kto libo iz vas rasplachivalsya s Umidom ili kto to iz vashih znakomih blizkih - postupil takim obrazom - kakova summa viplati - skolko oni berut fees i tak dalee
ya bil vi ochen blagodaren


Desperado

[Brunt]

Po naslishke, trebuyemiye Umidom summi fantasticheskiye... Kto nibud mojet proyasnit situaciyu?

Pri takih astronomicheskih summah ya bi zaril misl o rasplate gluboko v podvale Umida...

[neponyalD]

Dorogoy DSPR,

Dlya eto i sushestvuyet message board chtobi proyasnyat' facti i sobitiya. Da, ya uslishal "gde to i chto-to", a potom moi druzya v NYC v Morgan Stainly proverili i ya ohu****l ot etoy vopeyushey nespravedlivosti!!!!!! Naschyot dokazatel'stva, nu ne znayu sprosi u UMIDa gde etot paren' rabotayet (v kakom "preoritetnom napravlenii narodnogo hozyaystva RUz") i potom posmotri tam li on. I navernoye on ne tam:) Naschyot togo, chto on ustroilsya v gos uchrezhdeniye kotoroye poslalo yego zarabativat' de'gi dlya sebya i dlya Amerikanskogo banka, I am sorry, what kind of stupid organization that might be!!! Uzb-n paid money for him and he should make money for Uzb-n, that's how it is and no way around. Bolee togo, Morgan Stainly ne yavlyayetsya "prioritetnim napravleniyem RUz" kak ni kruti:) Bolee togo, dlya kakoy eto pol'zi dela, UMIDovets mozhet rabotat' na Amerikanskiy bank i pri etom ne ispolnyat' kontrakt. Ved' dayutsya internships vo vremya uchyobu i ih mozhno prohodit' kak v Uzb-ne tak i v SShA, govorya ob experience.

Mania,

True, all animals are equal, and some are more. But we should try to make all animals equal anyway. B/c sorry, I have the same contract, it's 5 years of my life, and why some people can evade it without any punishment and others ahve to work. F*ck this system, Dude!!!

Tsone,

Na schyot togo chto ya napisal, ya uveren, no ya hochu proyasnit' chto tam proizhodit v etom umide i Uzb-ne. I mne interesno vashe mneniye, a takje chto vi znayete ob etom.

Also, guys, to do something real in Uzb-n we need to be one!!! All umidies! Vi znayete chto dlya razvitiya strani neobhodima ogromnaya politicheskaya volya chinovnikov gos aparata. Ona obespechivayet 60% uspeha reform i preobrazavaniye. No, lyudi (talantliviye i umniye kak Norov) begut iz Respubliki kak krisi begut s korablya eto ochen' ploho!!! I Uzb-n pri takih obstayatel'stvah skoro budet ne luchshe odnoy iz srednih stran Afriki.

Ya ne zaviduyu Norovu, poverte mne. Mne ochen' obidno chto v ryadah talantlivoy molodyozhi poyavlyayutsya breshi, a eto ni k chemu horoshemu ne privedyot. Bolee togo, ya bi predlozhil some real action.
1) Given this case, poprosit' UMID chyotko reglamentirovat' protseduru viplati obratno deneg;
2) Yesli oni razreshili etomu parnyu "stajirovat'sya" dva goda, pust' eto budet dlya vseh!!! V vide practical training na opredilyonniy period posle okonchaniya po zhelaniyu studenta.

Spasibo guys. I mi vsyo-taki dolzhni bit' yedini i ne pooshryat begushih s karablya kris!

[xavi]

Eh, afsuski bizga ota-bobolarimizdan cho’p me’ros qolgan! Nimaga disizlarmi?! ha ko’t kolashgade!

I am not sure whether we can get rid of this bad heritage! It is really absorbed in our blood!

Dear neponyal, it is not the place to do the nasty remarks about the others. Actually, you shouldn’t have mentioned the name of the person. If this person works, ”qandini ursin”! maybe he will repay the sum!?

You are urging “mi dolzni bit’ yedini”, while causing the problems among umidies! Every person decides for his future himself! If you are so “patriot”, go and work for our motherland where u will be serving tea for “qorni kotta amaldorlarga”! and don’t tell others what they ought to do!

and lastly, it is high time for us all to learn NOT ko’t kovlashni!

Regards,

[BuBu]

Yesli kto-to gde-to smog ustroitsya - ne nado etomu zavidovat' a postaratsya samomu.Btw,svyazi imet toje neploho (eto ne greh). A vot otkupatsya ot umida ne stoit - pustaya trata deneg.

P.S. mania qalee? George Orwella tsitiruyesh:)Molodets, vidno nachitanniy. A tak see you in NY:)

[Desperate_2]

Dear Tsone abd Dspr

Chto vy tut srazu prigaete - a ty obosnuy a ty obosnuy...

vo pervih - pochti ves' umid in US who gives a shit about anything knows that Kodir stayed abroad and working for US investment firm - so there is no need to apologize for neponyal - I think Kodir is the one to apologize. In fact while all of us went home to work with our pahtabanks and gallabanks - he enjoyed a privilege of staying here every summer and interning with US investment bank. nashet obosnovaniya - I met several of Kodir's classmates and they all told me that he is working with MSDW - tak chto ne nado obosnuy faktom - tebe chto teper' iz humar resource division ego kontrakt pritashit nado? Fact is fact i ne nado eto skrivat.

Vo vtorih - don't give me this "prosto sami ne mojete i zaviduete crap". I can name at least 5 of my friends Umidies who have REAL offers in their hand but are leaving or left home in December and May without even considering the options because the amount Umid demands is ridiculous.

v tretih everyone else forget about paying Umid back unless you have dobrenkiy dyadya who is ready to pay Umid back $70-80,000 upfront po kommercheskomu kursu (Azimov letom skazal chto Umid ne d......by i my ne smojem otkupitsya po goskursu kotoriy v 3 raza nije bazarnogo - that killed all my hopes of paying Umid back) a potom daje esli otplatishsya potom roditeley za.....t. This was the case with every former Umidie who paid back.

v chetvertih - Kodir poluchil etu vozmojnost ne izza togo chto u nego super excellent grades byli - there are many kids with 4.0GPA, ne izza togo chto on MSDW popal - I am sure many of us can get similar or even better offers had we known ahead of time that we should start looking for a job (I didn't coz I didn't see the point)a izza togo chto u nego roditeli bog znaet kem rabotayut. I ne nado eto otricat' - you just make an idiot of yourself!

Good luck.
I hope Kodir reads this message eventually and will give some reasonable explanation pochemu on kak u nas govoryat "shohi bor".

[voshe_neponyal]

Hey, akalar,

UMIDni puli qattan kevotganini bilaslarmi? Usha man va sizlarning ota onalari solik tulagan puli, pahta dalada odiy odamlarning puli. Endi man otam qayerdadir posol busa, man shunday odiy halqdan o'g'rilashga haqqim bo'ladimi. Kechiraslar-u, lekin sizlarning attitide manga juda ham yoqmapti: yo sizlar ota-onalari ham porahor, yo kallangiz joyda emas.

My parents worked all of there life for the country, when it was cotton time they went with there organizations to cotton. Now, the state pays them a salary on which even a bumb won't survive here in America. Endi qanaqa gap bu, za schyot moih roditeley, etot paren' ne tol'ko horosheye obrazovaniye poluchil, no budet sebe karmani nabivat' i rabotat' na protsvetaniye Amerikanskogo banka, vmesto togo, chtobi rabotat' vo imya protsvetaniya Uzb-na. Ya prosto h**yeyu:)

Na schyot togo chto mi ne mozhem nayti raboti zdes', a on takoy umniy i nashyol. Ne hochu hvastatsya no, okajonlar, s horoshim obrazovaniyem i s normal'noy golovoy zdes' rabotu nayti "kak dva pal'tsa obassat'" i pozh. ne nado tipa on molodets, on nashyol, pust' rabotayet. Eto yeshyo odno dokazatel'stvo, chto gosudarstvo u nas grabilo svoih grazhdan, grabit i, yesli vot tak vse budut na eto smotret', budet grabit' i derzhat' vseh u kogo net roditeley pod bokom u Karimova, LOHAMI!!!

Kechiraslar-u, lekin biz umidchilar, bunaqa narsalarga shunday qarasak ertaga mamlakatimiz Afghonistondan yuz battar bo'ladi.

[Ya ne Norov]

Dorogoy Neponyal,
Proshu uspakoyetsa. Vidno chto ne rabotal v gos structure. Zakonchish uchebu, poydi po rabotay paru let...potom yesho raz napishi svoyo mnenie. Ochen nadeyus ti naydesh sebe Nishtyak mesto, i bez vsyakih "ogrableniy vseh roditiley"

Good luck

[Konkretno]

A kto nibud mojet mne skazat - skolko je vsyo taki UMID beryot deneg - realnie li eto cifri - i est li vozmpjnost uplati
Ya dumayu chto esli kto nibud kto uje rasplatilsya s Umidom - rasskajet konkretno nam - kakova sama procedura i summa viplat - nam bi vsem eto pomoglo.

Nujno smotret na mir realno - to est kak teper mojno otmazatsya...

[umid-aka]

Hi guys,

:) :) Da... Neponyal, ti konkretno na vseh nayehal tut. No ti otchasti prav. I konechno zhe obidno osoznavat' (u tebya proslezhivayetsya notka etogo) otnosheniye umidovtsev i vobshe uzbekistantsev k Uzbekistanu. Eto polozhitel'noye (ot slova polozhit') otnosheniye eliti k Rodine, mne kajetsya, vryadli privedyot k chemu nibud' horoshemu. Uvi, mi ne umeyem lyubit' Rodinu, i (k sojaleniyu) istoriya poroy po svoyemu zastavlyayet lyudey lyubit' svoyu rodinu. Uvi eti protsessi ne otvratimi, sudya po vsemu i otveti rebyat na tvoyu temu neponyal horoshiy tomu primer.

Glavnoye, ne otchaivaysya, ostalis' yeshyo patrioti!

[Major]

What`s up, guys!
I fully agree with Umid aka. Ne umeem mi lyubit Rodinu. A ved ona u nas odna.
I know that some people on this board won`t like what I am gonna say but this is my personal opinion. This is what I think. This is what I feel.
You know, guys, sometimes i read some messages on this board and ...i am scared. Really scared. I have been in the US for almost a year now and i had a chance to stay much longer, but I just let this chance go away. Because I wanna go home. I wanna be in Uzbekistan. No matter what. No matter how difficult is there. That is my motherland. I was born there and i do not want to die any place but there. But before I die i am gonna do all my best for my country.
Agar bu boardga O`zbek millatiga mansub bo`lmagan odam kirib, O`zbekistonning umidi bo`lmish umidielarmimg mana bunday va boshqa shunga o`hshash messagelarni o`qib qolsa bormi! U O`zbekiston haqida qanday tasavvurga ega bo`ladi?! Nahotki O`zbekistonda ahvol shu darajada yomon bo`lsa? Agar hato qilmasam, kimdir boshqa bir topicda "O`zbekistonga qaytib borishni hohlamiman" deb yozgan edi. Eng achinarli hol shuki: he is not alone. As i can feel a lot of umidies are not gonna be back. I understand that hamma eng avvalo o`zini kelajagini, oilasini farovonligini o`ylaydi. Nega endi O`zbekistonda bunga erishishni imkoni yoqmi?
No matter what do not forget that YOU are the future, YOU are the HOPE of Uzbekistan.

Best regards.

[Kroka W. Bush]

Can't agree more with Umid-aka and major....

One thing we have to remember - for those of you who consider Kodir's action (if whatever has been told is true) is unethical - that this doesn't mean that we have to answer with unethical action. yes, the democracy and equality must prevail, however we have our duty - and we must stand still on our duty.

My opinion: skipping your duty is unethical.
Can my opinion change anything: No
Can ours? May be.

As it was said in very good film "bronx tale" - the saddest thing in this world is the wasted talent". Yall are talented bunch and don't let it slide. Keep it up wherever you are Uzbekistan, US, Europe or somewhere in the middle of nowhere. I think any of us can do well anywhere - given that our motivation and inspiration stays. So all we have to do is support each other, defend our right and be united.

I can't agree more with voshe_neponyals statement that this money comes from the taxpayers, who are basically our parents and close ones. I hope all of us here realize the duty that no matter what, you still have this duty in front of your close ones.

Searching for truth is good, but we can't just sit and talk. Lets get back to it and show'em some Umidie Power! If we succeed - it will be US who did it!

Respect
Kroka

[MegaZ]

I zachem koviryat' chujuyu jizn' ? Zavist' ?

Nee, rebyata...ya vas ne ponimayu.

Yesli smojete sdelat' toje samoye - go for it. Pryamo kak stariye babi - sidite i peremivayete kostochki... :(

[MegaZ]

Menya prosto ubivayet misl' o tom, chto mne pridetsya rabotat' s "predatelyami" i lyudmi, kotoriye vse chto umeyut horosho delat' eto koviryat' chujuyu jizn' ! V konze konzov, vi mujiki ili net ?

Skaju ya vam odno - yesli vi budete prodoljat' v takom je duhe, vam v Uzbekistane ne projit'.

A tem, kotoriye hotyat viplatit' summu Umidu - ya skaju: O chem vi dumali kogda prohodili testi ? O chem vi dumali, kogda uyezjali iz Uzbekistana ? Yesli u vas bila odna tsel' - uyehat' i bezplatno prouchitsya, vam nado bilo vibirat' drugiye programmi.

Tsitiruyu:
Takje, chto budet yesli ryadovoy student posupit takje? Bili li sluchayi kogda student sostavlyayli s UMIDom graphiki viplati zatrachennih deneg? (K stati, ya slishal chto norov nichego ne viplachival).

Nujno smotret na mir realno - to est kak teper mojno otmazatsya...

Da, ya uslishal "gde to i chto-to", a potom moi druzya v NYC v Morgan Stainly proverili i ya ohu****l ot etoy vopeyushey nespravedlivosti!!!!!!

Vot sidi, i prodoljay proveryat' i koviryat' jizn' drugogo cheloveka... Srazu skaju, yesli poyedesh v Uzbekistan obratno, tebe naverno srazu nado idti v miliziyu. Tam tvoi "skills" kak raz ponadobyatsya...

[neponyal]

MegaZ,

Nu cho ti tut razborki kakiye-to ustroil: babi, menti. Hvatit uzhe, stranu vsyu razvolili i razvorovali s takimi podhodami. Yesli bol'shinstvo umidovtsev dumayet kak ti, to izveni, ya navernoye luchshe poshlyu vseh naher i budu zanimatsya tem zhe, chem i vot eti vori. K stati, akalar, ya ne ot zavisti eto pishu. Znakomih i t.d. u menya hvatit i otmazatsya i chto ugodno sdelat', no mne bol'no videt' kak nasha Rodina katitsya v Zh*pu i poslednyaya yeyo nadezhda - MI UMIDovtsi - rassujdayem i dumayem takje kak i te kto Rodinu razvalival. Vsyo toje znakomstva, vzyatochnichestvo i chto dal'she? A dal'she, pri takom hode dela, mi prosto vsye okazhimsya u stenki ili boradachi v chalmah nam budut yaytsa otrezat'.

Havatit, Prosipaytes' uzhe rebyata i trezvo otseniv situatsiyu, delayte vsyo chto-bi spasti i sohranit' i priukrasit' rodinu. Ne chitayte eti stroki kak revolyutsionniye. Moy point, eto to chto vse mi (kakiye bi ne bili umniye i krutiye) dolzhni yehat' obratno i rabotat' konstruktivno i umno v gos. uchrezhdeniyah. Yesli nado, zatikat' vo vse diri takih mankurtov kak Ziyayev, i stoyat odin za vseh i vse za odnogo.

A chto eto takoye, etot Norov, chto on dumayet mi vse lohi, a on umniy. No, sudya po otvetam, vi znayete, on prav:) I mi yest' i bili lohi i rabi. Mi daje zashishayem svoih hozyayev. "A malades' Norov, aqlli bola, shunday kotta bankda ish topti":) Eto, primerno tak vi otvechayete na temu. A on, na samom dele, chto ni na yest' ukral i navernoye sidit i prikalivayetsya nad nami, kakiye mol lohi, plibei.

OK, guys, pozhaluysta potrezvey podhodite k voprosam. Spasibo,

Do sih por ne ponyal

[stranger]

It is good to see other people's opinions about this matter...

One thing I would comment that, please do not get me wrong, we have plenty of" ko't kovlovlar" in Uzbekistan and those people are the ones who demolish it witht their hipocracy and pathetic mentality...
Kodir is a bright guy, I share MegaZ's point of view, although I have never met him in my life, but I know from my friends that he had achieved a lot in his life, being from a provincial town in UZB...And I give my appraisals to his merits and to what he achieved with his hardwork and intelligence...

And, folks, please quit "digging" each others background or a**s, it is remotely not wise or honourable...

If you ended up by staying in UZB, so deal with it, that is what you wanted and thrived for...I have been in that situation and I know what that is...Life has never been easy regardless where you are: in New Zealand, US or Burkina Faso..it is the same but different approaches and tastes in lives!

To MegaZ: I think it would be great idea not to let the topics with destroying other people's image to be on MB because it belittles certain people's reputation, let alone their names or parents' pride

Sincerely
Stranger

[Kroka+W.+Bush]

Stranger and MegaZ,

with all due respect, I think you guys should respect others opinion too and not call them "ko't kovlar" or something like that. This is unrespectful, since the guy/gal may have stepped over the ethical boundaries of getting personal, but still he/she has a point. Lets respect each others opinion whether you agree or not.

IMHO, there could be few reasons why neponyal wrote this message: patriotism, envy or desperation.

We all talk patriotism and stuff, let me ask you - honestly think about it - how many of us would voluntarily come back if not for a contract? Honestly? Give up 50-80K starting salary and work for $120-$150? I guess very few. So, turns out in the roots, most of us aren't real patriots. (May be I am wrong and speaking like a materialist?) So may be it is not patriotism.

Envy? I hope not. Most of us are bright kids, and could get good offers from those companies. So I hope issue was not being jealous. And IMHO it is not very good of some people that responded to blame the author on pure envy.

Lastly.. desperation. And if this is the case, the best solution to this problem is set an example, show them that you paid respect to your duty and then speak up. None of us yet served half of the obligated contract years, so there is not much to complain about. Neponyal, you haven't even came back home, you haven't even worked a day on a contract - why are you complaining? May be things won't turn out as bad? Why be so pessimistic about it? You can always make your experience valuable - it doesn't 100% depend on your workplace, it depends on you. You can work at Morgan Stanley, Citibank whatever, or you can work at Minfin or NBU and get a totally different work experience. May be it doesn't pay as well, but it's not the money that matters. So don't be so negative on your future. Once you complete your obligation, then you have a right to speak up and tell anyone you want that you completed it, and he/she didn't.

I agree with saying that chto vse krutyatsya kak mogut, i chto vse znali na chtoli shli kogda sobstvennimi rukami podpisivali kontrakt. Tak chto please do not complain about it, but rather try to be an example (come back to Uzbekistan, show some diligent work and respect your duty) to those who you think acted unethically.

Lastly, I wanna assure you that most of us coming back and do our best to bring life and prosperity back. Just be strong and try always doing the right thing. Respect to all.

Kroka

[Kroka W. Bush]

No offence intended, just remembered a joke...

Kogda delili mir, vsem naciyam Bog daril podarok... razdaval razdaval a Uzbeka netu..., i vot posle togo kak vse razdal cherez chas privalivaet Uzbek (gudel v choyhone navernoe ili v #choyhona) i govorit a chto mne est'.. Bog govorit chto vse uje razdal... no ostalos neskolko igolok... s teh por mi i lyubim koviryatsya :)

Again no offence intended :)

:) Vse enough MB, poshel college football smotret' :) last games I will watch in the next may be few years - will miss it a lot :)
Kroka W. Bush

[someone]

Kroka W. Bush gde takiyi salari dayut $120-$150? skaji mne kakoye gosudarstvennoye uchrejdeniye tak zarplati vipisivaet zavtra tuta je podamsya. Maximun na chto mi seyichas mojem raschitivat eto $20-30 i mojet proezdnoyi besplantno na 10 chelovek, esli udastsy to sekretarshu besplantno banganut mojne budet :), vot tebe i vse perksi.

[someone]

vot eshe zabil: tupogo nachalnika vzatochnika, objazatelstvo zavarivanuya kok chaya i pogonyalu "americanec" eshe dadut

[Kroka W. Bush]

I said $150 / year :)
as to kok choy you make yourself a workspace. it's your duty to sell yourself. As far as I know, even some internships at morgans and citibanks are limited to making coffee and xeroxing... unless you can prove that you are capable of more :)

[Kroka W. Bush]

I forgot - there are some umidies kotorie po raspredelinuyu rabotayut and making about $120-150 a month. I nashli eto mesto oni bez blata - trust me - coz I know these kids. Tak chto esli tak posmotret - it's all in your hands. If you can sell your qualities, the road is open anywhere, you just gotta look for the path :)

:) Nu eshe ne pomeshalo bi svyazi imet'. :) Kak gritsya: Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, Move your money, Get well connected :) (iz ih reklamy)

Good luck Edik :)

[neponyal]

Eh, jalko mne Uzbekistantsev rebyata. I nikomu ya ne zaviduyu i ne iz desparation podnyal ya etu temu. Prichina, kak ya uzhe obyasnyal - patriotizm, edinstvo sredi umidovtsev, nastroyeniye umidovtsev po otnosheniyu k sushestvuyushemu. Resultati, uvi, ne sovsem vpechatlitel'niye.

1. Kajdiy krutitsya kak mojet - no ved' resultati ni kakiye ot etogo. Vernee strana vsyo nizhe i nizhe padayet. Uzhe nas s Tajikistanom postoyanno sravnivayut. Nu kuda eto goditsya. Seychas samoye vremya hotya bi chto nibud' spasti, inache vsyu zhizn' po emigratsiyam taskatsya, yesli zhivimi budem.

i, since it got so pesonal, which I never intended it to be

2. Vi govorite chto Norov ochen' umniy i probivnoy. Hence, it is OK for every "umniy i probivnoy" to stay here. And, therefore, all the garbage goes to Uzbekistan. That's the logical thread you are guys pushing. I am not garbage, so I should stay here? Right? Vot imenno etogo ya i NEPONYAL!!!

Thank you very much guys for your views and opinions. It was a very nice discussion.

Uvidemsya v transheyah:) (that's the only future we have with this kind of attitude to our Motherland, Duty, and with our ethics)

Teper' ponyal:)

[neponyal]

MegaZ,

A menya ubivayet misl', chto mne pridyotsya rabotat' s predatelyami Rodini i poh*istami.

[some]

kstati o transheyah, poka ya letom doma bil za mnoyi iz voenkomata prihodili, vot prikol bi bil esli v armiyu zabrali lol, kak v anektode: novobranec govorit prizivnoyi komisyii na mendosmotre: poluchil B.S. v Harvarde, M.S v Yale. Voenkom govorit tak i zapishim: prizivnik umeet chitat i pisat po angliyiskiyi :) ne po teme prosto vspomnil

[Nasl]

Rebyata,

mne naplevat na skoropostijnie vivodi nekotorih zdes, chto v UZB vernutsya tolko "garbage" ili
o teme uzbeki eto "saperniki (k... kovlovchilar)". Ya etih sapernikov i za predelami UZB toje mnogo vstrechal. Mne naplevat gde naprimer umidovetz Kodir Norov jivet, rabotaet, hotya proshu u nego prosheniya za ton.

Pust, kto hochet vozvrashatsya vozvrashayutsya a kto net pust ostayutsya podalshe ot UZB (esli eto im nravitsya). Mne obidno chitat, iz za togo , chto Norov mojet bit za bugrom rabotat ostalsya nas vdrug stali nazivat "gabage":( (teh, kto UZB vazvrashaetsya). Eh, na daje... . Pust gabage ... nam naplevat:).

[Oshiq+Salmon]

Sog`indingmi? Sog`indingmi? Bolaligim sen ham meni so`gindingmi... (Yulduz's song)

I had some time during the vacation. I read some books. I wanted to share one of them with you. I think it is relevant to the topic.

Oshiq Salmon
-------------------
From The Art of War
By Sun Tzu

On Warfare
All warfare is based on deception

On excellency of winning
Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.

On Generals,
Now the general is the bulwark of the State; if the bulwark is complete at all points; the State will be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the State will be weak.

On predicting winner
Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.

On readiness
Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

On treating captured people
The captured soldiers should be kindly treated and kept. This is called, using the conquered foe to augment one’s own strength.

Signs of superiority
To lift an autumn hair is no sign of great strength; to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight; to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear.

On turns
The five elements (water, fire, wood, metal, earth) are not always equally predominant; the four seasons make way for each other in turn. There are short days and long; the moon has its periods of waning and waxing.

On stratagem
With his forces intact he will dispute the mastery of the Empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph will be complete. This is the method of attacking by stratagem.

[hmkh]

From above

"On Generals,
Now the general is the bulwark of the State; if the bulwark is complete at all points; the State will be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the State will be weak."

Is it why our state (UZB) is weak?
??????????????????????????????????????????????

[t-rex]

i see you have got a hot discussion here guys :)

i have one thing to say,
being from Bukhara I know Kodir for a long time and let me tell you that he is not the guy you should have picked up for this kind of discussion. he is bright person, good character, good friend etc etc.

to "neponyal" - i would agree with you if that would be some stupid guy with big tank in front of him making his way to the top trouble free. this is not the case with Kodir! so let me suggest you to grave this topic and pick other appropriate person for purposes of showing how unfair our system is...

all the best

[rex-t]

t-rex do you have problems with reading and comprehending? Is anyone questioning Kodir's brightness?

I'll tell you what - there are lot of bright kids in Umid (and may be brighter) and they are all coming back because they have agreed to pay back by working in the governmental organization. What Kodir has done is simply ran away from a sinking ship - like rats do. Don't you think the other people deserve to be treated equally?

This topic is not about picking on a person or bitching about someone getting a job in US. This is about fairness and justice - and as far as many of us can see - the people in power are just abusing and stealing from the nation.

[to rex-t from t-rex]

If you consider yourself for today such a supporter of justice etc… you should choose your methods . you call people “rat” and present them like traitors. Behave man
Blame “UMID” foundation, responsible people that allowed him to stay etc, he is not the only who is responsible
imagine yourself having such a chance. Be honest, you would not comeback, would you?
or what would you do if "UMID" would eventually allow to everyone of us to do what we want with our degree. would you return back to serve your people? i dont think so
anyway for me this issue is over

all the best

[rex-t]

Listen pal,

Don't tell me that Norov is a angel in this situation. He is mature man and if he has got enough brains to work in MSDW he also probably understand that he is abusing the power given to his father and using it in his own benefit.

And let me tell you something - I do have this chance - but knowing that I did not acted properly, knowing that I won't be able to look straight in the eyes of my friends in Umid, I don't want people mentioning my parents and how I abuse the power given to them - I will not do it.

People like Norov are called karyerist. He doesn't care about opinion of the fellow Umidies, who are just in the same situation.

I am not claiming that I would have came back if everyone else was given a fair chance of staying in the US. I am not sure how familiar you are with the investment banking recruiting process - but believe you gotta know in September that you are available to start in July. And considering that, Kodir knew that he would not come back as he went through the recruiting process.

How else are you going to explain that he spent every summer interning with US companies, whereas a lot of Umidies who also got that kind of internships were required to come back?

One thing you are right about - the issue is over. whoever wants can make his conclusion. I agree with the person who brought up the issue - you did a right thing mentioning his name - this is a method to fight this kind of corruption - v tiharya benefit on the side. Let it be known who are the people who are abusing their power - and lets see how Kodir will look straight in other Umidies' eyes if he ever comes back

Regards

[scorpio]

Syezdite luchshe v NYC na mashine i u vas jelaniye chujiye zadnici koviryat propadyot :). Ne zabivayte chto v gostyah horosho a doma luchshe , a yesli mi sdelayem tot dom luchshe to daje i gostit ne zahochetsya.

Tak vipyem je za to chto bi vse delali svoyi doma luchshe !!!

scorpio,

kotoriy 20 minut tomu nazad priyehal iz New Yorka prosidev za rulyom 16 chasov i kotoromu po figu do vsyakiv Norovih i ne sovsem Norovih :).

[CCorpse]

Hey guys, I see you are having a nice time here...so I have taken a decision to join that club. ;)) (and add a few points too...)

1. FREE FLOW of INFORMATION among UMIDIES - Everyone possesses the right to express his own opinion. Blagodarya etomu mi ZNAEM ob etom sobitii i u kajdogo est svoe mnenie i predstavlenie ob etom fakte. At least, this the first important aspect, since it shows that we can be together through the electronim mediums. Etogo v Uzbekistane prosto tak na vstrechah Umidovtsev ne dostignesh.

2. ya osoznayu chto mnogie umidovtsi znali na chto idut vo vremya prohojdeniya testov, ekzamenov i etc. - 5 let obrbotki.... V to je vremya oni takje mogli osoznavat chto oni budut imet EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES v proyavlenii svoih talantov i sposobnostei, kotorie im obeshali pod predlogami patrioticheskogo slujenia rodine i otrabotki "hlopkovih zatrat". I seichas kogda kto-to rabotaet v American investment bank vmesto zapolnenia budjetnih dir do 1100pm v MinFine, po krainei mere chuvstvuets nespravedlivost'. I ya dumayu luchse vsego budet sprosit kak eto sluchilos libo u rukovodstva Umida, ili u samogo Kodira Norova.

3. Ya takje dumayu chto u kajdogo Umidovtsa zdes' ili tam est svoi idei, jelania, zeli i nakonetz plani na budushee. Kto-to budet ochen hotet' uehat' otsudova i mojet uedet,
kto-to (komu est' za chto derjatsya vozmojno)
budet hotet' zdes' ostatsya, no mi vse ponimaem chto ideologia i patriotism zdes imeyut malo obshego ili voobshe ne svyazani s real life. otsyudova nado i plyasat.

4. esli kto-to ochen ne jelaet otrabativat zdes' i seichas, emu skoree vsego sleduet horoshenko izuchit Grajdanskoe pravo, yuridicheskie tonkosti, i opit drugih umidovtsev, kotorie ne otrabativayut...
kto smojet sdelat' eto sdelaet, ostalnie mogut spokoino rabotat`...

I v konze ya bi hotel virazit bolshuyu blagodarnost' tem rebyatam kotorie donesli etu informazyu do vseh kto mojet zaitin na umid.uz i teh kto obsudjal. Eto zdorovo chto mi vmeste i stol'ko mnogo takih razlichnih mneniy.

Critical comments are welcomed.

[Star]

Privet! :)

ochen zharkiy topik, ochen zhivotrepeshushiy vopros

pochemu ya pishu? navernoe potomu chto sama stolknulas s podobnoy situaciey (:) navernoe menya tut ne hvatalo)

edinstvennoe chto hochu vam vsem napomnit:
v 1989-90 godax ochen molodoy chelovek poehal v US na MBA, i posle polozhennogo obucheniya etot chelovek vernulsya domoy v uzbekistan

god spustya etot chelovek obrazoval NBU, s ustavnim fondom USD 200mln, i uvelichil etu summu v dva raza za 4 goda

etot zhe chelovek v to zhe vremya podalsya s ideey UMIDA, fakticheski ego sozdal, sobral fond, sobral dengi i nachal otpravlyat MOLODIH REBYAT I DEVCHONOK (!!!) (ne dedushek i babushek, ili vzyatochnikov- nachalnikov), tuda gde on sam pobival, i nauchitsa tomu, chemu on sam nauchilsya

etot chelovek sdelal to chto on hotel i to chto emu govorilo ego serdce (u nego ne bilo kontrakta ni s kem), to chto on sdelal i to chto on postroil (fakticheski iz nichego) - vam nado bi na eto posmotret!

v etoy zhizni u kazhdogo zvoya doroga, i kazhdiy ee vibiraet sam

nikto ne vprave uprekat i osuzhdat - ne dano etogo nikomu

prosto naverno nuzhno postupat tak, kak kazhdomu podskazivaet ego serdce, chto bi v konce zhizni u nego ne bilo sozhaleniy

vot i vse :),
luv

[Who cares?]

BS! Tolko vot etogo ne nado.Nashli genya.
Luchshe raskajite skolko creditov NBU zamorozili i rastratili dlya raznogo roda SP, kotorie ne dayut nikakoy produkcii, a v aktivah chislyatsa. A v usloviyah , kogda na bazare dollar v 3-4 raza doroje oficialnogo kursa kajdiy kto vhoj v krugi mojet najit kapital v dva scheta.
I chego sravnivat' 89-90-ie goda s tem chto seychas tvoritsa v strane.
Nu ne vse je idioti zdes'.

[bezimyanniy]

Dear Star,

Spasibo vam za etot yarkiy primer. No ved' dazhe etot skazochniy geroy Mr. A. poyehal na Rodinu i vnyos svoy stol' beztsenniy vklad v razvitiye svoyey rodini, a ne rodini Heminguya:). Ved' tak zhe.

Pochemu-zhe chelovek, tem bolee ispol'zovavshiy den'gi prostih lyudey, vnosit svoy vklad na rodine Lincolna i Dreisera, a ne na svoy i moyey i vashey, i yeshyo ibn Sino, Avitseni i al' Buhariya:)

Stranno...., odnako,...

[bezimyanniy]

...... nepoluchayetsya, odnako, "O'zbekiston kelajagi - buyuk davlat."

Bolee togo, eto postupok sina bivshego gos. sovetnika presidenta RUz i nineshnego posla RUz. Chto-zhe mozhno govorit' o prostih smertnih, kogda v golove takoy bardak. Navernoye, pravdu govoryat, "riba gniyot s golovi".

Prostoy uzbekistanets:)

[some1]

a vernulsya zagadochniyi mr. potomuchto bili u nego i rodstveniki i dengi, a esli bi ne bili to bilo bi u nas mr. i vse

[scorpio]

Ya Azimova yesho bolshe zauvajal posle istoriyi star. Molodets mujik.

A nam slabo ?


scorpio

[Dave]

To Star: ya toka xotel uznat', otkuda on vzyal ustavnoy fond 200 mln USD!?

thanks.

[Kroka W. Bush]

It wasn't his 200mln. :)

As far as I know (I may be wrong) the urban legend says that Mr. Azimov was a head of some smaller bank, and right after the independence or around that time he was speaking about the reforms in the banking system. Prezident Karimov was very impressed by his speach, that he appointed him as a chairman of newly founded NBU.

With Mr. Azimov's leadership NBU became what it is today - they rest you know.

[Chitatel]

Star, tebe v Bollywoode rabotat nado, scenaristom. Otkuda takaya milaya istoria, prosto slyozi umilenia navorachivayutsya.

Davay nacnyom s samogo nachala i vspomnim chto etot ochen molodoy chelovek k kontsu 80- nachalu 90-h bil uje otvetsvennim komsomolskim rabotnikom, komsorgom krupneyshego vuza v Uzbekistane - TashGU. T.e on k etomu vremeni uje proshol vsu sovetskuyu shkolu molodogo managera, kotoraya bila gusto zameshana na blate i protektsionizme . I navernoye ne nado govorit chto v te vremena redko kogo otpuskali v Ameriku prosto tak pouchitsya :) Davay ne budem zabivat chto do NBU, suchestvovala takaya organizatsia kak UZPromStroiBank, v kotorom v nachale devyanostih lejali escho ne sovsem obeschenivshiesya rubli.

P.S. Ya z glubokim uvajeniyem otnoshus k etomu molodomu cheloveku i iskrenne schitayu ego talantlivim administratorom. Edinstvennoye chto Ya khochu skazat - nichego ne bivayet na pustom meste. Khotya s drugoy storoni trudnosti ukreplyaut kharakter i u cheloveka probivshegosya naverh svoimi silami bolshe shansov tam ostatsya. ;)

Cheers

[Sanjar]

Hello everybody!

Let me make a point.

I do NOT think that Neponyal's attitude is "k*t kovlashlik".

If it was "k*t kovlashlik" then, presumably, all the mass-media (e.g. in Britain, US) would be doing the same business, i.e. "k*t kovlashlik"?

I hope you got the point.

p.s. Who created this expression ("k*t kovlashlik")? Think!

Happy NY, evrbody!
SJ

[Star]

:), mates, :)

ya tolko chto ponyala odno -:) chto ya ne mogu sporit so vsemi :), ne potomu chto vi pravi ili ne pravi :), a potomu chto ...potomu :)

rech idet ne o velikolepnom administratorstve, a tom kak vi legko obo vsem sudite :)

ya zhelayu vsem i kazhdomu ochen krasivogo i yarkogo vashego sobstvennogo puti :)), pust kazhdiy iz vas dostignet togo, chego on ochen gluboko zadumal i tait v glubine svoey dushi

zhelayu vam vsem rabotat vo vseh International Investment Banks all over the world, get as much as you wish, bit ochen bogatimi, i imet vse blaga, i chto bi dushi vashi radovalis, i chto bi vashi umidovskie kontrakti ne deystvovali vam na nervi

v konce koncov eto vse o vas, poymite, vas otpravlyaut ne dlya togo chtobi vas potom ispolzovat :))

a dlya togo chto bi Vam, kogda nastupit Vashe vremya hvatilo uma na to chto bi ZNAT KAK STROIT', I CHTO STROIT', I STROIT' TO CHTO VAM NUZHNO, I TO KAK VAM HOCHETSA, I TAK KAK VAM NRAVITSA, I TO KAK VASHA DUSHA POZHELAET, v sootvetstvii s Vashey moralyu i Vashimi cennostyami

pust v etoy zhizni, v etom veke v uzbekistane vse proishodit po Vashemu zhelaniyu, ya protiv etogo ne vozrazhayu :), (poetomu vas molodih otpravlyaut v starie uchrezhdeniya takie kak MInisterstva, gde sredniy vozrast rabotayushih kadrov sostovlyat okolo 60 let, chto bi vi ih nemnogo poshevelili :), i nemnogo poigrali svoimi mozgami, i mozhet nauchili ih rabotat :), poeotmu vse vzroslie ludi ochen nervnichayut po vashemu povodu, potomu chto oni uzhe ne v sostoyanii chto-to izmenit, mozgi uzhe ustoyalis :), uzhe vse :))

ko mnogim iz vas ya proniklas glubokim uvazheniem

tolko pozhaluysta, ne dumayte tak kak vi dumaete, kogda vas mnogo i vi vmeste - eto imeet znachenie :), v kazhdom iz vas uzhe sidit Beruniy, Navoiy, Ulugbek, Ibn Sino, Krok, Dave, MegaZ, Rovshik i mnogie drugie :))

eh vi!

:)

[da mania ya mania]

>gde sredniy vozrast rabotayushih kadrov >sostovlyat okolo 60 let, chto bi vi ih >nemnogo poshevelili , i nemnogo poigrali >svoimi mozgami, i mozhet nauchili ih rabotat >, poeotmu vse vzroslie ludi ochen
> nervnichayut po vashemu povodu, potomu chto > oni uzhe ne v sostoyanii chto-to izmenit,

I liked that POSHEVELILI i POIGRALI, that was DOPE:) pod etimi pojelaniyami lejit ochen' mnogoe neraskri'toe,
perechitayte eshe raz
messege is
f(&*ing erotichen, i'd say
PS da, i izlishne mnogo uli'baetsya, :) which is bad:) I mean smth wrong:)

annotaciya is closed and hope the TOPIK too.
take care all,
and face the heat(UMID)

[MegaZ]

Ya proshu prosheniya yesli obidel kogo-nibud' svoimi soobsheniyami. Ya naverno ne ponyal sut' razgovora. Prosto mne bilo obidno, posle togo kak ya uvidel chto nachali nazivat' imena. Yesli chestno, ya Kodir Norova ne znayu personally. Videl, no ne obshalsya. No moy message bil ne iz-za togo, chto upomyanuli Norova.

Proshlim letom, ya bil ochen' zol iz-za podobnogo sluchaya. Posle vseh problem s otbitiyem (review vseh studentov v Umide) odin iz moih blizkih druzey (dalee - A) chut' ne ostalsya. Bila takaya problema: ih bilo dvoye - on (A), i yego mate (dalee - B) iz odnogo i togo je universiteta. (A) proshel komissiyu, a (B) net. I vi znayete chto sdelal (B) ? On nakozlil v Prezidentskiy Apparat ili yeshe kuda to pro (A), i t.d. i t.p. U (A) bilo ochen' mnogo problem. Hoteli chtobi on yeshe raz proshel komissiyu i yemu prishlos' tugo...

It is just like those situations in schools - when someone gets an "A" and you get a "B", and you go to your teacher and bitch about that person and try to find out the reason. Nashi predki nam vsegda govorili - umey radovat'sya chujomu schastyu !

Ishodya iz etogo vsego, ya uvidel pohojuyu situatsiyu... Poetomu i bil zol, poetomu i naverno obidel nekotorih.

When we talk about fairness and justice - it is another issue. But one thing we should not forget about - the consequence of this discussion should not be ruining someone else's life !

[CCorpse]

Star, y tebya takie velikolepnie misli, idei, nravstvennie nachala, blagie pojelania izumitelnie zeli, i t. d. i t. p. eto prosto mojno s uma soiti kogda sredi preobladatyushei massy pessimizma (ili realisma) est alye zvetochki, kotorie mogut ozarit yarkim svetom vseh ostal'nih.....;)

I ya takje nadeyus chto ti odna iz teh DEVCHONOK, (!!!) kotorie poehali uchitsya i poluchat znania chtobi vse znat i ponimat... i jelayu togo chtobi u tebya sohranyalis' takie je nastroenia kogda (ili esli) ti verneshsya v solnechny, rodnoi i nezabvenny Uzbekistan, i provedesh 2-3 goda v obshestve starikov i starushek, chei sredny 60 let (ne budem vdavatsya v dal'neishie podrobnosti), i kogo ti budesh uchit... (vozmojno ih toje, esli smojesh).


Do not consider this as an insult please.



Cheers,

[self-named 'Star']

Privet,

...alie zvetochki ne alie zvetochki, na ulice esli uvidish - ne obratish vnimanie

prosto togda davayte vse vmeste soberemsya i temnuyu ustroim vsem tem kto otkalivaetsa, da eshe i potom palki v kolesa budem svtavlyat vsu ostavshuyusya zhizn, vsem srazu zhe legche stanet i urokom dlya ostalnih budet - chto bi ne otkalivalis na budushee, po principu - uzh esli komu to ploho - pust vsem budet ploho, hot' ne zavidno

i eshe, nemnogo vne temi, esli kto znaet:
posle voini kogda yaponiyu razgromili, yaponci tozhe '... kovlyash'em zanimalis?

i eshe, kto nibud' esli znaet:
kakaya samaya populyarnaya milnaya opera u yaponcev? i esli mozhno, kakov suzhet? (eto na vsyakiy sluchay, esli v golivud scenarii pisat' otpravyat)

eto vse.

hochu poproshatsa so vsemi, dumayu bolshe ne uvidimsya, poka

[t-rex]

Star, your speech was so hypnotising that i do not really care now if what you said was right or wrong. I am just knocked down, literally.
:)

the story you told us sounds like an American dream.
weclome home sweetheart :)

you have made lots of good points tho :)

best wishes

[Carl Sandburg]

Nothing happens unless first a dream...

[just....]

bez telyachih nejnostey nikak ne oboydemsya kajetsya, just taking someone's time...

[Sashok]

Nu chtoj, pochital ya chto vi O Kodire Norove pishete. Well, I am not hiding my ip or something and I know that Kodir is gonna read this. Kodir this is Sakhrab. Mi s Kodirom v odnom gorode uchilis' i vstrechalis' ochen chasto(I mean parties). Ya znayu Kodira ochen' horosho. Neponyal pishet o tom chto to emu za rodinu obidno, chto on patriot i t.d. Well neponyal ya daje ne znayu chto i podumat'.
Zdes' mojno tol'ko dva vivoda zdelat'. (This is what I think)

(Negative)1. kodir umniy paren' i ne kto v etom ne somnevayetsya. Da on uchilsya v Whartone and it is a decent school. Da on uchlsya horosho i on bil na internship. No problema v tom chto v daniy moment (eto ne ko't kovlash, Megaz and others) a ya dumayu chto neponyalu stalo obidno chto narushayetsya dogovor i umid ob etom znayet. Esli rebyata vi takiye vse patrioty i prosite neponyala ostavit v pokoye Kodira to vi ne pravi. Segnya vi zashitite Kodira i porsto naplyuyot na kontract a zavtra vi zashite yeshyo kogo ko nibut(mejdu prochim kogo nibud' who is doing illigal things) i tak dalee. Vot tak i Uzbekistan razoryayut. A boladi, ishing nima?? Ko't kovlama?!! Yesli budete tak prodoljat to v uzbekistane slovo kontract i obyazatelsva ischesnet navsegda. Mi vse podpisali kontrakt no kto to yego obhodit, dlya kogo to po***, etim mojno a vot etim nel'zya. Ya dumayu vot kokrasto ki eto i imel v vidu neponyal. I partially agree with him.
No s drugoy storoni:
(Positive)2: Rebyat, yesli chestno ya ne hochu za kogoto vruchatsya no ya dumayu chto tak budet horosho,hotya ya i ne uveren. Ya imeyu vidu yesli on hochet zdes' porabotat'(gain more experience) a potom vernutsya vUzbekistan, to pomoyemu eto budet luchshe, v lyubom sluchaye vi rebyata ne chego ne mojete predprenyat' na schyot etogo, nam nujno lomat' sistemu. Tak chto ya dumayu(Ya znayu Kodira i ya dumayu chto on vernyotsya v Uzbekistan)raz u nas takaya sistema(mojesh nayeb**t', nay**i)delayte toje samoye.
Neponyal eto tebe malenkiy sovet(prosto sovet): Ti zdelayesh toje samoye rebyata budut ne protiv, ti je sam vidish. Tak chto davay, ti zdelayesh, vtoroy zdelayet a potom mi posmotrim kak eti patrioty vo vsyo gorlo orat' budut!!!!!
Take care and good luck in your studies

[Fafotik]

Koroche, ya vot chto hochu skazat' vsem co-called shustryakam, kotori'ye ishut puti, chtobi' uvil'nut ot svoih obligations pered Umidom. Vi' vse hotite luchshey jizni, chem vse ostal'niye v Uzbekistane. Menya prosto besyat takiye halyavshiki! Yesli vi vidite rabotu v Uzbekistane bez potencial'ni'm delom, to kakovo izvinite hu**ya vi' uchites' za rubejom, i schitayete sebya umnikami yesli ne mojete ispol'zovat svoi znaniya, chtobi' osnovat' sobstvennoye delo v UZB! Ya znayu chto uroven' jizni ne vi'nosimo nizok v Uzbekistane i chto ochen' mnogo let mojet uyti dlya stroyeniya razvitogo gosudarstva. No podumayte, yesli ne mi', to nashi deti budut jit' v tom blagopoluchnim obshestve, kotoroye vi' tak hotite. I yesli vi' takiye neispravimi'ye pridateli,da pridateli(!) svoyey rodini', to sovetuyu sidet' i pomalkivat' i ne razlogat' duh drugih umidovcev, nastroyavshihsya na good-will!
Ya podderjivayu vi'skazi'vaniya "Neponyal"a, i proshu allaha dat' vsem pobol'she sovesti.

[some1]

Allah s bolshoyi bukvi idiot

[MegaZ]

WoW :) Do chego dobralis'...

[Some2]

Some1 Tu pereshyol Granicu !!!

Uchitovay chto tut nemalo studentov Kotorue Istinno veryat v Silu Allaha i Nepoterpyat takie Slova.
Eto ya govoryu lichno ot Svoyego Imeni.

[Eche_Odin_Demagog]

Ele do kontsa dobralas :) i sdelala odin vivod :) -
pust' nam hot' kto to (Allah, Mama, Papa, Drug, Nachal'nik, etc - vstavte po sobstvennomu vkusu) dast SILU to MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS!

[tovarish_Cyxob]

Some1,

Ti umishlenno zpyatuyu pered "idiot" ne postavil! Smotri razgnevayesh Glavnokomanduyushego!!!!

Smotri, tut!!!!

:]:):]

[ketmon_bola]

Eshe_Odin_Demagog, that's for you.

Honey, I thought that's what we were doing here - "MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS" - in this topic. That's our money we are talking about, dear. That's the money of my personal labor in the cotton fields. You know how many times less the state pays for my cotton, that I grow and live worse than a bumb in Tennessee or Alabama. And when I try to sell my cotton myself, I get rediculous sentences from the government controlled courts and treatment as an enemy of the nation. Honey, that's really rude on your part to tell me what you did. I am really offended.

I've been following this discussion since it was originated and I would like to say a HUGE THANK YOU to "Neponyal" for starting the discussion. We need to look at this type of anomalies. Why? Because, people like me get really pissed that some of the umidies are not only from families that can afford paying for thir offsprings' education abroad, but also these very kids do not understand us (the majority in Uzb-n) and appropriate our money and don't use them for our benefit. That isn't fair, after all.