More about the Great Central Asia Forum

[muslim]

Is it just me or do persians (which doesnt include the tajiks) have incredible inflated egos just waiting to explode any minute.

No offence intended Iranyar, maybe its not all persians, but it seems to me that a whole lot of them bear some sort of hatred either for turks, or for arabs or both, like we are some sort of ignorant, imbecile barbarians, and only persians are the great sophisticated refined people.

I know that every persian loves to remind the world what great civilization you guys used to have.... but SO WHAT? Its gone... famoosh... the arabs did u a great favor when they got rid of the stagnating persian royalty and took over... just remember all the great scientists of persia - and central asia started coming out during the days of the Islamic State...

I am sorry dude, but I yet to see any of this kind of ultranationalistic bull on the Umid message boards unless its been started by either you or that javan-mard.

And is it true that some are so ultranationalistic that some persians want the return of zorostrianism and magianism back into Iran and replace Islam? At least thats where i have heard somewhere...

[iranyar]

Mahmud take it easy.

if someone doesn't agree with your muslim fundamentalist vews is he necessarily evil and nationalistic??????

no Mahmud Zoroastrianism is not magicianism, it is a good philosophy.

secondly I am Iranian and not necessarily Persian, someone who speaks or knows Persian is not necessarily a Persian

[muslim]

Ey Iranyar...

You dont get it. This has nothing to do with Islam. This just has to do with some of the blatant, racist messages posted by Iranians that I saw on the "Great Central Asia Discussion Forum."

But since you threw Islam = fundamentalist equation into the whole mix... well...:

Zorostrianism is a good philosophy and Islam is fundamentalist or extremist?

Define fundamentalist, dude... I have yet to see a reply from anybody that defined fundamentalist accurately yet.

[iranyar]

well if u accuse something referr at least to those messages.

and I know you were a fan of taliban, what the hell have they the right to destroy the cultural herritage of a country? what those budha statutues has done to their arablover Molai omer that they want to destroy them. it is really sick.

[muslim]

Seems like you and the rest of the international community give more damn about a couple of statues rather than a human life...

hundreds of afghans have starved to death.
hundreds of palestinians have been murdered.
hundreds of chechen civilians have died.
hundreds of Iraqi children have died because of sanctions.

Wheres the outrage now, eh Iranyar? Oh wait, I forgot. These people are all fundamentalist-fanatics. They deserve to die.

[Freestyler@]

<Mahmud>, do yo think destroying statues (which are not simply rocks or whatever but are evidence of history, culture, civilisation and art) will somehow help those starving in Afghanistan?!?!?!?! I find it stupid.

Taleban - ta gruppa fanatikov, kotoriye takje yavlyayutsya DEGENERATAMI!!! Oni ne vidyat chto oni sami je sebe kopayut mogilu.

I'm sure they would be much better off if they directed their energy to restoring the economy instead of destryong the heritage of the humankind.

[muslim]

Freestyler,

You are blowing it out of proportion.

It was purely Afghanistan's business of what became of those statues. If afghans wanted them destroyed, it was very well within their rights to do so. The UN and and the international community have no right to tell what Afghans to do on a matter of some statues. Statues != Human Life.

Second, there are NO Buddhists living in Afghanistan, so what Afghans destroyed was NOT a place of worship for any of the residents of Afghanistan.

Third, where was the outcry when time after time the Jews tried to destroy the Al-Aqsa, and almost came close to succeeding a couple of times? Where were you guys when Hindus destroyed the old Babri Masjid, (which btw, name after some Uzbek dude named Muhammad Zahiruddin Khan)? This crime was followed by riots where more Muslims were killed.

Where were you when old Mosques were destroyed in the Balkans at the hands of Serbs?

Or how bout this one... Indians repeatedly test there missiles which end up hitting mosques that are in use in Pakistan near the border that both countries share.

No sanctions were placed, there was no international outcry... I doubt that the UN even noticed or cared what happened.

So get your facts and priorities straight, pal. You can get yourself worked up about statues and not about killings that go around you? That I find hilarious and depressing at the same time.

[mustafa]

I've read it recently:

History teaches the human kind, if human beings dont get it right history will teach them again.

Seems we didnt get the lessons from history. so it is repeating itself.

Mustafa

[Urganjiy]

Marhabo hanimafandilar, beyafandilar!
Diktator Karimov turk dunyosini kandi janidan bila sevan bir yazari oldirdi.
Sasigiz &ccedil;iqmiyor, yada sizlar ham &ccedil;anqayada undan qorqaraq yonatiyormisiniz Turkiyayi.
saygilarimla Safar Bekcan!

[Urganjiy]

Afatarsiniz, bu posting Mahmud Ghaznevi nidan chiqanlara.
Marhabo hanimafandilar, beyafandilar!
Diktator Karimov turk dunyosini kandi janidan bila sevan bir yazari oldirdi.
Sasigiz chiqmiyor, yada sizlarda Chanqayada undan qorqaraq yonatiyormisiniz Turkiyayi.
saygilarimla Safar Bekcan!

[some1two]

Mahmud,

you say Afgani and Iraqi children are starving to death and nobody cares. What about rejims in that countries? Do they care? I guess they do not.
You know that the reason of sanctions is not buddist sculptures, but military preparation and continueing war. If they care about starving children why they do not stop spending alot of money for weapons?Why they don't buy food for starving people, invest money in dieing economy, cease military preparation to stop sanctions?
I don't want talibs to become more powerfull and to threat peace of our country, to make uzbek children starving as afgani, even for idea of Jihad.

As about sculptures, nobody tells talibans what to do with them. This action of talibs speaks for itself.
They are not tolerant at all. As any demolishing machine sooner or later it wil be dead.

[muslim]

some1two,

How can Taliban cease war when others are still fighting them? I really don't see the logic in that. Perhaps if other nations keep their noses out of Afghanistan (i.e. supporting the opposition) perhaps Taliban can stop also.

As for Dostem's evil twin, I feel the same way about him as most of you do.

However in the case of Taliban, If you have been keeping up with the news lately, the Taliban lifted the food blockade two weeks ago, and the opposition confirms that.

Also, again if you have been keeping up with the news, Taliban has also been involved border scuffles with its closest ally, Pakistan, in order to get more refugees into Pakistan, where they will be better taken care of, until the war ends.

So in answer to your question, yes, the Taliban does care about its starving children.

However, I really can't say the same thing about Turkestan and the Red Sultans that govern it. Any one who sends his brethren back to the jaws of Death, with the only reason being his own cowardice, has no business in telling others what to do.

[img="http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/cn-xj.gif"]

[some1two]

Oh, poor talibans...Everybody fights them...

Funniest thing I have ever heard!

[muslim]

Wanna know whats really funny? Turks are afraid of China. Wimps.

Anyhow, If Turkestan is too afraid to fight for their blood-kin, then at least allow the Taliban to fight for their brothers in Islam!

[some1two]

Nobody is afraid of anything.
It is your paranoia that someone should afraid of something and should fight.This is all about your idea of jihad.You don't have any arguments except brutal force.
Are your talibans capable to do something?The only thing that you and your talibans can do is fighting.
If you are trying to fight for Uygurs, good luck.
But they live today much better than afgani children under taliban's rejim.
Remember: we do not need the mob like talibans to fight for us. First they need to make life of afgani people better, before trying "to help" others.

[muslim]

<Some1two>

1) Uyghurs must be having the time of their lives then, huh? Try telling that to some Uygur. Or go visit Uyghuristan yourself.

2) What is paranoia? Imagining something that isnt real. Are you saying that what is going on in the Muslim world isnt real? Explain Chechya, or Kosovo. Or Bosnia, Indonesia, Malaysia. Eastern Turkestan.
Palestine. Kashmir. Hindustan. Philippinnes.
And in other countries that are "supposedly" "Muslim".

No I am not paranoid. But it seems a lot of people are living under an illusion that everything is all right, however.

3) Yes let taliban take care of themselves first.
So get out of their way then! Then they will do what my fellow turks have not been able to do.... Protect their own!

[some1two]

I agree that not everything is all right.
But only on that.
I disagree that the real cuase of all these conflicts is religious one.
I disagree that you will be able to solve this problem by Jihad.

Be creative, Mahmud, not destructive.

[Freestyler@]

<Some1two>, I agree with everything you've written.

As to <Mahmud>, I never expected him to understand that destroying statues will not help Taleban to gain some more respect among the rest of the world, except for intolerant religious fanatics like himself.

Taleban are destroying the cultural and historical heritage of the humankind and that is the fact which cannot be disputed. Do you ask yourself what it will bring to Taleban, <Mahmud>? :(

Foolish taleban, they will never gain respect of the world!
(Yeah, because they don't know how to deserve it!)

[some1two]

One more comment:

Do you think that Uygurs are repressed by chineze because they are muslims? What about Dalay Lama?
Is he muslim also. What about alot of small nationalities in China who are repressed. So, the reason is not religion. It is imperial attitude of China, Russia, US ... and Saudia...How do you like it?
Yes, Saudia, who is trying to biuld and extend halifat.
Imperial attitude is a real reason of all these conflicts.

I am not buying your "help to brothers"

[muslim]

__________________________________________

Chinese Authorities Ban Fasting in East Turkistan During Ramadan

East Turkistan Information Center (ETIC)
Tuesday, December 5, 2000 By Uchkun

East Turkistan, Dec 5 [ETIC]: Since beginning of Ramadan, Communist Chinese government authorities mobilized police, army and undercover police to increase the monitoring the activity of Uyghur Muslims. They have punished fasted Muslims, prohibited Tirawi prayer (when break the fast) in Mosques, closed the bazaars where people get food for Iptar (breaking the fast). After the Ramadan started, authorities removed the speakers from the Mosques in cities, towns and villages. They sent patrolling personal to Uyghur neighborhoods to identify those who are fasting or going to Mosque. During the Tirawi prayer times in the evening, police cars patrol the Uyghur neighborhoods with the loud sirens on to intimidate people.

In order to find out who are fasting, some companies, government institutions and schools have arranged coffee breaks with free food and demanded Uyghur employees to eat. Some schools arranged mandatory lunch for Uyghur students. Many government institutions and companies cut the monthly retirement allowance of retired Uyghur employees who fast.

In explanation of their act, the Chinese authorities said they are taking these measures in order to protect the health public. (They should have protected the poor Uyghurs who do not have enough eat--Editor).

These kind of restrictive measures are employed more commonly in the Southern parts of Eastern Turkistan.
__________________________________________

This isnt called anti-Islam? You really aren't buying into the fact that China is doing this for "public health" are you?

[muslim]

"Campaign against religion and free speech"
(excerpt from "HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION IN EASTERN TURKISTAN" by Uyghur American Association

__________________________________________


Although the government claims that Chinese citizens have the right to practice religion, China is pushing a vicious anti-religion campaign. Especially in Eastern Turkistan where most of the people believe in Islam, Communist China has repressed freedom of religion and speech most harshly. All the religious schools are strictly banned. Many Mosques have been closed and the building of new mosques is restricted. Government trained Imams have been sent to every mosque. Communist doctrines are taught during religious services. Religious services themselves can not be held without the permission of the local Communist party organizations. Freedom of speech is also severely restricted. This can be best exemplified by the fact that we are not allowed to refer to our homeland in our own language. The Chinese name "Xinjiang" of our homeland can not be properly pronounced by the Uyghurs who do not speak Chinese, but calling it by its own name "Eastern Turkistan", is a very serious crime under Chinese law.
__________________________________________

[muslim]

Amnesty International - Report - ASA 17/18/99
April 1999
China
People's Republic of China. Gross Violations of Human Rights in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region
__________________________________________

<footnote 51> Since 1997 the authorities have launched an “atheist education” campaign to purge the local organs of the Chinese Communist Party from religious believers. As a result, many Muslims have been dismissed from their Party membership or posts. Praying is also prohibited for Muslims who work in government offices and other official institutions and many have to hide their beliefs if they want to keep their jobs.
__________________________________________

[muslim]

What more do you want? Shall I get an Uyghur on this discussion board to plead his case?

Oh yea, some cultural heritage monuments were destroyed in Uyghuristan by Chinese there... Why were you silent then?

[some1two]

"<footnote 51> Since 1997 the authorities have launched an “atheist education” campaign to purge the local organs of the Chinese Communist Party from religious believers. "

Does it say muslim beleivers? It says beleivers.
Same was back in 1917-... when commies were trying to build empire.Itwas in 60-ies and 70-ies with muslims in Uzbekistan and other believers.

It has nothing to do with muslims only.It has to do with all believers of different religions and nationalities. As I told this is imperialistic attitude.

Mahmud you should be consistent on such matters.Were uygurs christians they would be repressed in the same way.

So, still I don't see any reason for Jihad.
It is of common sense to fight with imperialistic repressions.

What about me "being silent" on issue of cultural heritage of Uygurs? Please, read topic more carefully.It is devoted to vandalizm of talibans.
If you will start new one devoted to uhgurs or chinese you are welcome.

[muslim]

either way, i am assuming that you are muslim, it is incumbent on muslims to fight oppression, even when oppression is happening to christians or other non-muslims. However, muslims are your priority. Its not like the Chinese are tolerant of Islam... If that was the case then I wouldn't be making a big fuss over this. But the fact is that they are repressing islam and trying to turn back the tide of Islam. and this Muslims have always fought against.

Don't tell me that jihad is an outdated thing in this modern society. Nobody is civilized in this world. The only things that have changed are the weapons and the strategies of war.

[Freestyler@ (Kategorichno]

<Mahmud>, Chinese are intolerant to any religion. This fact stems from their being communistic!
And if it is fueled by separatistic movements, they are even more "intolerant" (just as would do any state which cares about its territories - like turks in kurdistan, russia - chechnya, spain with basques and so on). So I reckon the problem essentially is not that the Uyghurs are muslims, but that they want to separate from China, although religion too contributes to this fact.

[some1two]

Agree, Freestyler.


Mahmud, the only wave for all of us to survive on this planet is to be civilized.
I am sorry for you if you did not see alot of civilized people.

[some1two]

Sorry, should be "way", not "wave"

[some1two]

i love cheese, o and my ak-47