Taleban - Vandali?

[Freestyler']

Just read this article from Uzreport.com:

Uzbeks Worry About Their Historical Sites In Afghanistan (http://www.uzreport.com/cgi-bin/news?id=gen&act=read&rmsg=0103783)

[Freestyler-2]

Just read the article from kabkaz.org
http://www.kavkaz.org/news/2001/03/14/news1.htm

[qwerty]

Nice article Freestyler! Looks like someone desperately needs to discredit Afgan goverment creating another excuse for bombing civillians. Old trick.... just don't buy it. I think it's their own (afgan) business and no comment is nessesary here.

[Freestyler@]

<Alex>, I don't agree with you. The news about Taleban destroying the historical and cultural heritage other then Islamic in all Afghanistan has been braodcast almost in all countries, not only in Russia and Uzbekistan.

They are certainly vandals! Recently I've seen a program on TV. A very brave Englishman decided to embark on an ambitious and extremely dangerous trip to Afghanistan. He took a VC with him and filmed as much as he managed to. Later he made a documentary about his trip.
I've wathced the documentary and all the interviews with locals (you know the official Taleban prohibit filming, television and photographs as being unIslamic).
Believe me they, are VANDALS. Their thinking is on the level of barbarians. Besides, most of them still think that all the calamities that have come to them are only because they have not been good muslims and God has punished them for that. Don't you find that at least naive?

Anyway, even if it were a trick (which I believe it is not), I certainly bought it and I don't regret it!

[Freestyler@]

You might also like to check out my message N6 on "More about the Great Central Asia Forum" topic.

[reader]

This article is much better-http://www.ng.ru/world/2001-03-13/6_hell.html

Poor Afgan people what a destiny.

[qwerty]

Freestyler -> There's no doubt that this is another manifestation of taleban vandalism. To say the least it's stupid to destroy anything related with other religions or beliefs.

But... Let's not jump into conclusions OK. This is a tipical situation where afgan people (not goverment) would have to determine for themselves. First of all we always hear one side of the story. For instance did you know that Kuwait was always one of the provinces of Iraq or Taiwan had been the province of China.
Someone was interested in dividing them you never hear this in the media, right? Don't you think that this is another case of provocative attack in order to divide the muslim world. I am not a big fan of talibans or a partisan of an islamic society, but let's face it - who's interested in this kind of dicredit. Countries that will sell weapons if war breaks out, certainly not uzbeks. I am not saying that we have to support talibans, all i am saying we have to be discreet because any outcome of possible conflict will not benefit us.

Alex

[some1two]

Alex,

there are always at least two different point of views in this world, otherwise we wouldn't be able to watch even black and white TV.

I don't think that someone could separate China and Taiwan if there wasn't a will of some people.

And it looks strange to divide muslim world by they attitude to buddist sculptures. It is a pranoia.

And what kind of dicreditation of talibans are you talking about? They already succeded in this by their attitude to freedom of own afgani people, narcotrafficing, killing innocent people.

If you are for muslim world being strong and united you should not hide facts of talibans abusing rights of people and muslim religion itself.

About media, which is not talking about separations.
If you would look into history you can see many territories were many times united and separated. And you would like to make a case from all of them.
Nobody is hiding such separations you can find every detail if you want. But there is no need to heat up territorial issues in media.

All this articles are just warnings, especially for us:
Talibans have no reasoning, no mercy.

[IcyCool]

In place of Taliban, I would do the same thing.

Remember when Stalin destroyed chirches, sinagoges, mosques? Memember when we were doing what we were tald by Party? When people eat their children and dead bodies? I don't think Stalin give a shit about World opinion.

As for narcotics, both sides sell it. You cannot fight by money earned in cotton growing, can you? So best choice is reverend Anasha Gashishonvna.

As for terrorism or extremism, don't get too exited or nervous. Terrorism is considered as one of the tree ways of conducting small wars. Other ways are guerrilla (partizan) and special operations warfare. Will you get angry if your enemy uses tanks or artillery? Will you say that it is unacceptable, it is against human nature or whatever? You are not so naive to say that. Only thing we can do in this situation is to be prepared.

While destroying Buddas, Talibans also prohibit conducting other religious ceremonies. For example visiting sacred remnants by foreigners from Iran. Thus they cut one of the intelligence channels. So it is not that meaningless, as some people want to show Talibans' actions. If Talibans are so dumb, why Pakistani spetsnaz not only couldn't capture bin Laden, but also get caught? Why Americans couldn't get him with their rockets? Why they send ordinary Afgan people to study Computer Science in America?

As for Taliban opposition , they are losers. Yes, losers. They defeated Soviet Union and Najibullah, but couldn't keep the unity. So they lost their future and their country to Talibans. We must learn lessons from this.

As to Usbekistan, the only thing to do is to be prepared. We must stop dividing people into good and bad, white and red or whatever.

[some1two]

As to me I wouldn't be in place of taliban, so question what would I and wouldn't in place of taliban is not for me.

Regarding "both sides sell narcotics", one can notice that talibans brougth manufacturing of narcotics on level much higher than anybody does in region.
Secondly, talibans are looking for broadening of region of their influence. And the "loosers" are our only ally in Afganistan. We did live in peace with them for a long time, and they never threated our borders.
Definitely, talibans are not stupid, but it makes them more dangerous.And they can buy any sophisticated equipment in the world, that's why they are sending "ordinary" people to study abroad.Yes,"Ordinary" because not ordinary people can't be simply brainwashed by taliban ideas.

[Lucky]

LOL, Freestyler,and others who think that Talibans are vandals. They could be vandals in your terms :) But we forgot something, that's we have 23 mln Vandals in Uzbekistan and other parts of the CIS. You know why? Come on you guys are smart and can guess it easily. I hope you already had guessed right... For those who could not guess, lemme spell it out: We destroyed on of the Greatest pieces of the arts made in the 20th century. Hehe, we destroyed "Tovarish Lenins", the best sculpturors of former Soviet Union spent thousand of hours to build those "beatiful", and very expensive "Idols." You guys could say, "well, we did not..", Ok what happened to the one in "Krasniy ploshad", Tashkent city? If you still do not consider yourselves as Freestylerjon said "Vandali", then you guys also do not have a right to Call poor Taleban Vandals, LOL. (I think both of you are Vandals, and you guys(those who think talebans are Vandals) are even worse then Talebans, you know why? Heh,Well Talebans are not accusing you of Vandalism but you are, LOL) With respect and admiration, former Pioneer,
Tovarish Lucky :) (Pust Gotov, Vsegda Gotov, Hurrey...

[cute]

Manimcha kommunistic g'oyani o'zida ko'rsatib turgan Leninni haykali bilan, tarihi ancha uzoqlarga boradigan obidalar orasida KATTA farq bor.

[muslim]

ROTFL!

I don't think, that anyone who grew up in the Soviet social system and who currently comes from a society that is so brainwashed with governmental propaganda bull, should have the right to criticize other societies.

Clean up your own trash first!

[some1two]

Lucky,

Vo-pervih,kak ti sam pravil'no zametil eti pamyatniki velikomu Leninu postavili po ukazke sverhu, tak je ih i ubrali. Tak chto 23 mln k etomu otnoshenie ne imeyut.

Vo-vtorih,
Ti mojet i razbiraeshsya v Korane, no chto kasaetsya iskusstva,izvini, ti nikakoy. Ti ne zametil elementarnuyu raznicu;
a) Statui Lenina, kak ti govorish' "the arts made in the 20th century". A buddistskie sculpturi?
Mojet ti i Egipetskie piramidi priravnyaesh' k pamyatnikam Lenina?

b) Trudno prinimat' za "Arts", nashtampovannie po ukazke sverhu "Idoli".Gde tvorchestvo? Ego i nebilo.
Tak kakoe je eto iskusstvo?


V-tret'ih, ti pitaeshsya vandalizm odnih opravdat' vandalizmom drugih.Eto vse ravno kak na sude advokat v opravdanie ubiyci skazal bi:

"Tak i drugie je ubivayut!"

V-chetvertih, ti tak radueshsya Jihadu taliban, hotya vrazumitel'nogo obyasneniya Jihada ya ot tebya tak i ne uslishal. Ti tol'ko govorish o bor'be s kakimi-to Kufurami, kotorie ubivayut ni v chem ne povinnih ludey.
Eto pohoje na skazku pro zlodeya i dobra molodca.Zaranee pripisivaesh' Kufuram vse grehi zemniei pitaeshsya opravdat' Jihad na etom osnovanii.

Esli pod kufurami ti ponimaesh' non-muslims, i provodish liniyu mejdu muslims and non-muslims, to ya tebe skaju chto po obe storoni est' kak ubiyci , tak i normal'nie.Vse veruyushie v tom chisle i hristiane i buddisti pochtut za chest' bor'bu s ubiycami ne povinnih ludey, tol'ko vot v otlichie ot Jihadovcev oni ne prizivayut k bor'be s drugimi verovaniyami.
Kak mne kajetsia u mnogih musul'man ser'eznaya slabinka: eto neterpimost' k drugim verovaniyam.

[Lucky]

At least, they were not Taleban (or any other Muslim group), who killed millions in the name of Democracy and Secularism and what not, mentioning few is enough, The Democracy of Americans and Native Indians, the Civilization of Brrriittish and the Indian subcontinent, the Red Khmers of Kambodia in the name of Secularism, the Soviets in the name of Secularism and Proletariat, the Nazi Germany, and Italy in the name of Secular Socialism, on and on. Which one did the Muslims or at any rates Taleban did? How many million innocents' blood were shed by Talebans? How many times did Taleban Bombard the USA, in what year did the Taleban invade Soviet Union and destroyed thousands of Villages in the name of Islam? It was us who made the BIG Shit in Afghanistan, we created all that Messiness over there and now blaming poor Taleban for all the drug trafficking and what not. If Taleban are so bad how the heck tonns of Heroine pass through Uzbek, Tajik, Kazakh Customs without any notice? BTW, it was Taleban who kicked the IDU's ass couple of times. IDU was kicked out of Afghanistan that's why they made their Summer Assaults last year. Keep in mind, in the Whole former Soviet Uzbekistan not Turkmenistan is the best ally with Taleban. I heard from Pr.Karimov's own mouth, " Biz Toliblarga Omad tilaymiz wa qollaymiz." Although,Uzbekistan does not approve Taleban's certain issues, Uzbekistan strongly cooperates with them in the establishment of peace in this region. It is Ahmad Shah Ma'sud who is claiming Bukhara, Samarkand and the South of Uzbekistan. It is Ahmad Shah Ma'sud who wants to build a "Buyuk Tojik davlati" under the supervision of Iran. It is THE time for Uzbekistan to tie the old ties that we held with afghanis in order to guarantee stability in Central Asia. I do not wanna argue with you guys, but how can you hide the truth? I loved Lenin, and I think his statutes were masterpieces and I have no doubt about it. For me, he was Amir Temur in Amir Temur Hiyoboni, can you say that Statute of Amir Temur is Not a masterpiece?! It is indeed, The same with Lenin's statutes. Another point, some members of my family are still communists in their spirits and there are lots of Communists in Uzbekistan. They used to call the new democrats "Vandali" when the democrats tore down Lenin's statutes. You can trust me :) , because, I was one of those who had called the new democrats "Vandali" :) With the demand of Moscovites Lenin's corps was not removed from the Mausoleum, but it does not mean that we did not have people in Uzbekistan who were totally against for the removal or destruction of Lenin's statutes. We loved and admired him, at least me and other former commys :) ,It was Lenin who brought The Lights of Ilitch to the backward Khanates of Central Asia. It was Lenin who initiated the market economy, free health care, new railroads, radio stations and public facilities. We loved him not because we were forced to. We tried to show him our due respect willingly and with admiration. If you do not trust me, go and ask any middle aged person whether he liked Lenin or Stalin, you probably will get the answer that you expect. The same with Buddha, he brought rejoice and happiness to the empty hearts of East Asia to South Asia including the Central Asia. We do not have a right to discredit the statutes of Lenin compared to Buddha or any other statutes. I hope you guys got my point. Buddha as an idol is no different from Lenin, in my opinion. Indeed, he was outstanding and influential figure as Lenin was. I loved Buddha's teachings as I loved the Manifesto of K.Marx :). If you have different tastes from me in terms of arts, do not blame me for not having a proper understanding of Arts. I attended arts school for two years, thanks a lot. I used to play on afghani rubab :)
Unite the Proletariat of the World, :) I am not saying the acts the Taleban did are not form of Vandalism, what I am saying is We gotta Look at ourselves Before screaming and publicizing somebody else's faults or mistakes.
Comrade Lucky, :)

[Lucky]

BTW, the Buddists never worshipped the Statutes of Buddha. When they bow or prostrate in front of Buddha, they are actually showing a respect to the "Self" (it is derived from hindu notion of Atman, the "Great Self") in themselves.
Cheers, :)

[qwerty]

Got no time to reply to everyone. Generally my view concurs with Lucky's on this issue.
Other guys -> please stop reiterating western media (no offense intended)

[some1two]

You are right Lucky , there is no reason to argue, nobody will change his point.Time will show who is an ally, and who is not.
I should only note if Soviet Union destroyed Afganistan some time ago, it does not mean we should let talibans destroy our country.If am opposing talibans it does not mean that I am supporting russian policy in Chechnya. One can not justify crime, by crimes made by others.We can not say something like "that's fine if talibans will produce narcotics because some corrupted officials in our country help them in trafficking". You are trying to say again taliban are not bad guys cuase there are some guys who is worse.

[muslim]

Didnt the Taliban destroy all the opium fields in Afghanistan a few months ago?

and some1two, its not like taliban is carrying out a khmer rouge policy... stop being so paranoid and instead pray that things go right with the taliban instead of wishing their downfall, which will lead to another 20 year civil war...

[IcyCool]

Agree with Lucky and Gaznevi,
hvatit kak zaberemenevshaya shkolnitsya nadeyatsya na chudo, mojet rassosetsya... a?
Net, problemu Afganistana nado reshat' kompleksno, a ne stoyat za spinoy ondnoy storoni i razjigat' konflikt. U nas u sebya i tak hvatayet problem, nado ih reshat', a ne krichat'--Taliban, Taliban... Yesli Uzbekistan budet silnim, to nikakoy Taliban ili Masud ne budut strashni.

[some1two]

Bla bla bla bla....
Govori po teme,please. Smisl diskussi virazit' svoe mnenie, poslushat' drugih. A ti govorish' propisnie istini:
"esli Uzbekistan budet sil'nim...".
"U nas svoih problem hvatatet..."
Nu kto je s etim ne soglasen?
Vsego stol'ko skazal , a poleznoy informacii zero.

[ak47]

Bullshit

[IcyCool]

hehe, some1two, ti che je eto moi slova tak blizko k serdtsu prinimayesh? dovodov ne ostalos', na lichnosti perehodish? eto kakaya takaya diskussiya poluchayetsya, a? s pontom ti u nas informatsiyu vulkanom izvergayesh... kakuyu-to leksiyu prochital pro sivilizatsii, yeshe cheto tam. karoche, NE TEBE MNE UKAZIVAT' CHTO I KAK PO TEME GOVORIT'. just mind your own business.

hotya ti pishesh delniye veshi, yest' i drugiye mneniya, otlichniye ot tvoyego. tak chto ne nado vipadki delat', tut nikto protiv tebya nichego ne imeyet. ne port' nastroyeniye lyudyam.

yesli hochesh otvetit' mne, pishi na moy mail, ne stoit zdes perepalki ustraivat'.

[politik]

Buddah statues, budda statues!!!
Damn, pochemuto eti zapadniyi jurnalisti (i politiki) obratili vnimaniye Afganistanu seychas kogda oni nachali razrushat statuyi. To chto oni delayut eto nepravilno i eto neosporimiy fact. No pochemu vse molchat kogda tam lyudi umirayut ot goloda, ot snaryadov, pochemu oni ne tak pestryat zagolovkimi o voyne, pochemu eti je organizacii kak UN, UNESCO, strani kak USA, Russia ne prinimayut mer chto bi ostanovit voynu, pochemu oni neprekratyat postavki orujiya, pochemu, pochemu?...
Kogda rech idyot o statuyah vse vozmushayutsa, a kogda govorish o lyudah pochemutovse molchat.
Ya ne odobryayu to chto seychas delayet taliban, no priznayte tot fact chto oni ustanovili pir na 90% zemli, i yesli bi ne strani kak Russia and USA, voyna bi uje davno zakonchilas. Narod Afganistana toje ustal ot voyni i ubiystv.
Chtoj, budem nadeyetsa naluchsheye, i nado prekratit drug-drugu palki v kolyesa stavit, razdelyat na tadjikov i uzbekov, kirgizov i kazahov, mi doljni jit vmeste i drujno, togda ni kakaya sila nam ne budet pregradoy. (a ne perekrivat drug-drugu zimoy gaz, letom vodu)

[some1two]

Nadeyus', chto AK47, Icycool i poltik eto raznie ludi i imeyut svoe mnenie.
Somnevayus' v silu togo chto viju opredelennuyu korreliaciyu IP aderesov i vremeni postov.

AK47: no comments.


Icycool:

nu gde je ti uvidel, chto ya blizko k serdcu prinimayu,
pochitay vnimatel'no please, ya napisal vsego 5-6 strochek. I tam govoritsia chto s tem chto ti skazal nel'zya ne soglasit'sya, poskol'ku eto propisnie istini.
Tak kakie je argumenti ti ot menya jdesh? Skaji chto-nibud' menee propisnoe, togda ya tebe i viskaju argumenti za ili protiv.

Po-moemu,na samom dele, blizko k serdcu vosprinimaesh' ti, a ne ya.Esli ya tebe isportil nastroenie ti uj izvini...
Po povodu napisat' tebe.Moya cel' uznat' mnenie i vzgliadi ne odnogo cheloveka , i ne tvoi lichno.Ya hotel bi uslishat' kak mojno bol'she ludey i ih mneniya. Ne eto li cel' MB?


Politik:

Vnimanie Afganistanu udelialos' i ran'she, no need to exaggerate.Predstaviteli UN pod puliami uje kotoriy god pitayutsia pomoch' prostim afgancam, to chto ne delayut talibi,imeyushie den'gi na orujie i poslednie sredstva sviazi, no ne dlia svoego naroda.
Soglasen chto politiki i juranalisti zachastuyu videlyayut to chto im na ruku. No uj tak ustroen mir politiki.
Takoy mir na 90 %% territorii menia lichno ne ustraivaet.Ya dumayu Rossiyu i bol'shinstvo Uzbekov toje.Potomu chto talibi ne ostanovatsia. Eto vse proishodit na den'gi iz Saudii. Oni ne dumayut o nas ili musul'man Sredney Azii, in nujno rashirenie granic ISlama.A kakoy cenoy eto budet, im naplevat'.
A cena ta, chto u nas budet v sotnu raz men'she svobodi ,da toy jalkoy svobodi, chem mi imeem seychas.Podumayte, chto eto znachit.
Neujeli ti dumaesh' chto voyna mojet zakonchitsia esli talibi pobedyat? Oni poydut dals'he poka ne organizuyut lageria teroristov uje u nas i nashi ludi budut pushechnim myasom dlia bor'bi s rossiey i evropoy.
Soglasen chto ne nado razdeliat' na tadjikov, uzbekov kirgizov.I ne perekrivat' drug drugu gaz i vodu. No eto po-moemu uje vne etogo topika.

[reader]

O-la-la Comrade Lucky...

What a message!!!
I liked it.

Reader

[politik]

some1two, deystvitelno Icy, AK47, i ya vovse drugiye lyudi, v etom ti pravilno mislish. Ya uje skazal chto ne odobryayu to chto seychas delayut talibi, no pover mne ya ne dumayu chto oni osmelyatsa nachat voynus CA countries. Eto budet dlya nih chrevato mnogimi nepriyatnostyami. No vot yesli UN i drugiyi organizatsiyi ustanovyat control nad postavkoy orujiya, vvedut sanktsii (dvuhstoronniyi), to togda mojet situatsiyaizmenitsa k luchshemu. A pro gaz i vodu, smisl v tom chto yesli bi CA countries bili in better relations then they are right now, Taleban or Masud wouldn't be problem. Uzimizni oramizdagi nizolarni hal etmas ekanmiz, tashqaridan kelgan hafv doimo hatarli bo'laveradi.
Ladno, darsga ketish kerak, hozircha shu,

[some1two]

soglasen chto oni seychas ne nachnut deystvovat' napryamuyu.
Tol'ko vot plohaya ekonimicheskaya situaciya v nashem regione+fundementalistkaya ideologiya+bol'shie den'gi ot narkotikov i iz Saudii+
deterministik attitude of talibs, budut podtachivat' nas iz nutri poka mi ne stanem legkoy dobichey talibov i fundamentalistov. Ob etom nado prizadumatsya.
Dlya dvuhstoronnih sankciy nemnogo ranovato, poskol'ku oppoziciya eshe ochen' slaba.K tomu je pakistan prodoljaet postavlyat' orujie i saudiya pomojet.
No chut' pozje, eto nesomnenno nujno sdelat'.

[IcyCool]

kogda talibi dvinutsya na sever, talibam nujen budet slabiy uzbekistan ili tajikistan. a s pomoshyu narkotikov mojno i kitay na koleni postavitm, chto v istorii uje bilo. tak chto ya ponimayu tvoye bespokoystvo naschet narkotikov.

vi zametili-net, no potrebleniye narkotikov namnogo vozroslo v uzbkekistane. tak chto po moyemu lichnomu ubejdeniyu voyna uje nachalas', i na nashey zemle.

mojot nashi generali i zakopali po perimetru granitsi sotni tankov, mojet i miniruyut granitsi, no eto ne pomojet yetsli nas pottochat iz nutri. kogda ne komu budet stoyat na granitse, togda i dvinetsya taliban, i ne budet nikakoy kurskoy dugi, vse budet namnogo prozaichneye.

vot po etomu ya schitayu chto nado razbiratsya so svoimi problemami, nado derjat nizkiy uroven korruptsiyi, perekrit narkotrafik--blago eto ne trudno sdelat, vse dorogi horosho izvestni, nu i narod kormit' nado, i ne budet fundamentalizma, i ne otpravyatsya k praotsam, ili v voorujennuyu oppozitsiyu i tak daleye, hotye eto i zvuchit banalno.

[Freestyler@]

<Icycool>, you wrote you would do the same if your in shoes of Taleban?

And you gave an example of Stalin? :) That's lame.
Are you acually justifyinf them?

Don't you know what this kind of policy led to?

<Lucky>, nu ti sravnil....
<Some1two> i <Cute> bili pravi: V Korane mojet ti i razbirayeshsya, a vot chto takoye kul'tura, naslediye istorii i chelovechestva tebe yavno ne dano ponyat', kak i nekotorim drugim zdes'. Stidno doljno bit'.

Takoye oshusheniye, chto narod nyuh poteryal. Oni uje ne vidyat, chto takoye horosho i chto takoye ploho.


<Politik>, naschyot togo chto nikto ne otzivalsya o massovom golode i smertyah v Afghanistane ti gluboko oshibayeshsya.
Vo-pervih, ya lichno smotrel peredachi po BBC gde kritikovalis' sankcii OON po otnosheniyu k talibam. Mol sankcii tak i ne dostigli svoih celey a tol'ko uhudshili stradaniya prostogo naroda.
Vo-vtorih, vi navernoye ne sovsem eot osoznayote, no eti statui - ne naslediye Islama ili tol'ko Afganistana. Oni - naslediye vsego mira, civilizacii i chelovechestva! Poetomu ostal'nomu miru yest' i budet do nih delo, hotite vi etogo ili net.

Pochemu Yegipet ne razrushayet Sfinksa i Piramidi? Oni ved' doislamskiye? Otvet: potomu chto tam znayut cenu istorii i mirovoy kul'turi. A eti fanatiki-talibi dumayut, chto razrushiv statui Buddhistov im stanet legche jit'. Glupo da i tol'ko.

V istorii yest' nemalo faktov, kogda bogatii civilizacii bili zahvacheni boleye otstalimi narodami. Vandali - odin iz primerov (sobstvenno otkuda i nazvaniye). Ya uveren chto Talibi dlya Afghanistana budut svoimi vandlami dlya yeyo istorii, chyornim pyatnom v Istorii, kogda revoluciya prinesla ne progress, a razruhu, golod i degradaciyu.


P.S.
Ya pomnyu kak nekotoriye zdes' sil'no vistupali protiv kogda Izrail yakobi hotel razrushit' Al-Aksu.
Nu i gde je vashi emocii teper', kogda Talibi razrushayut statui? Egoisti (v plohom smisle etogo slova)

[IcyCool]

Freestyler, yes, i am justifying them, i sense that both Stalin and Taliban united and submitted their nations. But it doesn't mean that I like their way or something else, it is just politics. I my opinion, it is lame from your stand point to judge political movements and forces based on the goodness, vandalism, humanity. Stalin toje vandalam bil, so what? Taliban toje delayesh chto hochet, nu i chto? Who cares? It is pure politics, and we must win or lose in this race.

OK, I totally agree that Taliban are vandals and destroying country and etc. But then who is good? Opposition? I don't think so. They will do the same harm to us, if they could.

Da i ne nado schitat chto vse vokrug Uzbekistana plohiye, tolko mi horoshiye. There is very simple law of physics--to the force exerted, there exists an equal force, but in opposite direction. Talibi mojet i treniruyut IDU, no vspomnite chto i mi pomogali Dostumu orujiyem, dengami i yedoy. Mojet tadjiki i napravlyaut zonder komandi namangani no pered etim iz Uzbekistana delal marsh broski Hudoyberdiyev, i pri etom Uzbekistan govoril chto de eti terroristi ne s Uzbekstana prihodyat. No ya vot ne somnevayus v sile SNB, tak chto eto budet idiotizmom schitat chto oni ne znali o tseloy brigade Hudoyberdiyeva napravlyaushegosya v Tajikistan.

Tak chto, po moyemu, eto slishkom naivno delit sili na demokraticheskiye, vandalistov, druzey i vragov, krasnih ili korichnevih. U naroda Uzbekistana tolko dva druga--ego Voorujenniye sili, i VVS, a ostalniye tolko partneri ili opponenti.

[some1two]

Ok ICY,

finally, you admitted that talibans are vandals and destructive force. It took almost 24 hours.

We are not discussing who is the best, who is worse here. Nobody is saying that oposition is just good.
Oposition is good enough to oppose vandals and not letting them to take power in region and bring troubles to us.
If your are trying have "pure" and "cool" political attitude you should admit it.

One more time, your are trying to justify talibans by what stalin did.

[Freestyler@]

<Icycool>, I don't understand you.

One can explain why Stalin and Taleban are doing bad things, but this does not mean one can justify their actions. Opomnis'!

There are good and justifying excuses and there are "otmazki"!

You could explain why a killer-maniac kills ruthlessly (stating that he is psychogically deviant and so on), but how on earth could you possibly justify him?


As I said, i think you are not quite so sure chto takoye horosho i chto takoye ploho.

[IcyCool]

Sorry for off-topic, maybe some of you already read, but I would like to give you a link to Viktor Suvorov's books about WWII and Stalin politics. I found his opinion quite interesting on this subject.
http://www.agentura.ru/experts/biblio/

I recommend you to start with "Day M". Thanks for replys.

[afandiel]

Hey Icy Cool,

I am totally amazed in a good sense to see you expresing your political views. WOW!, man keep it going.

But, it doesn't mean I am taking either side in this political debate ;-)

However, I believe that the more "we" isolate the leading political powers in Afghanistan, the worse the situation will get.

It will be at least politically shortsighted to ignore the Talibans as they have a huge support of their own people.

I reckon more pragmatic approach would be to "trade" with them and in that way "educate" them.

I don't think they will appreciate if you insult them by calling "vandals". The BBC reporter was expelled from the contry for those reasons, and as the result now we are deprived of any sort of "neutral" info from that region.

The world community has power in its disposition and can use that power at any time to punish the current government. But, the violance and despair will not come to an end then, it will further escalate. The people of Afghanistan will take the view that "WE" are against them and that the Talibans are protecting them from the terror imposed from the outside. The similar situation is present in Iraq, their president gained huge support over the past 10 years and that support is only rising.

Another point to bear in mind is that, those people have suffered from ongoing war for more than 20 years. The major contributors to which were US and USSR, the outsiders. I don't think afghani peole can forget that so soon.

People of that land have developed that "hatred" for a long time. The imposition of any kind of bans on them or their government will only infuriate that hatred further. The actions taken on behalf of world comunity, thus should carry only one message- Message of peace and prosperity.

In that way we can gain their trust, then the issue of talibans can be solved a lot easier and quicker. because, if they loose the support of their people only then they can be eliminated.

The taliban government only represents that "hatred" and hostility. Also, everybody accepts that over the past 4 or 5 years the talibans have ensured the peace acroos the most of the country. That is their main achievement worse of appraisal.

I am afarid I have a bad habit of composing rather lenghty messages. I hope they at least carry some useful piece of opinion.

Bear with me

[afandiel]

opps,

I am sorry for spelling mistakes ;-)

[Freestyler@]

I don't need trust of vandals!

What's up with you, people?

However, I must agree that we need to "educate them" through a more efficient way then simply criticising them.
Oni yavno ne terpyat kritiki v svoy adres.

[Lucky]

Icy Cool- I support and agree with you. There are some people who call others "Idiots","Extremists" and all other " big" names but do not realize that they could be called with the very same nicks if looked from another vantage of view. In their opinion they are good guys, and others are bad guys, old soviet notion. I would suggest those people to consider before making statements. Those "extremists", "Idiots" have their degrees in many sciences and arts of the world's well known educational centers, mentioning few Oxford, Harvard is enough I guess. The time to approach others with respect and acknowledgement has come already. Dear, Freestyler, you should have come to the US. I guess in the UK, you guys do not have democracy in the full sense, may be it is because the U.K is Monarchy, hah?! In the States, as far as I know, they (americans, in general, there are could be some exceptions) do not look down at others and call with names. Americans usually look at you as equals to you. If they do not like you or your beliefs, they do not make big screams, they continue being nice, which never hurts them :) As far as Talebans ,I talked with couple of people who are from Afghanistan, and this is what they said approximately:" We do not understand one thing, BBC, CNN reporters always find some opposition and let her speak in the name of all afghani women. We, afghani women,like to wear hijab, perform our daily prayers, and live as a real Muslim in our pursuit of Life, Liberty and Happiness as other nations. The Taliban brought peace and Justice to the society, Before Taleban we had to have somebody to protect us when we went outside, that was because of high crime crate. Now, after Taleban have come, we could walk in the streets safely, robbery, rape, murder rates are close to 0. ANy western nation may dream about this.None smokes, drinks. The hectares of nasha planted lands were cleaned. The mini-heroine plants were destroyed by the Taleban government. The narcotic trafficking and dealing is right now under Ahmad Shah Ma'sud's or his people's hands. We have schools and special hospitals for women and the palces to work. Taleban, do not prohibit movies or arts, whoever told you this is all BS. They prohibited Western Nude movies, Nude pictures that West praise to be the Arts. We have our own Islamic movies and Muslim classic arts. If we deny and don't acknowldge western Michaleangelos and look up to our own Muslim Caliagraphists who have built the Tajmahal, decorated noble Quran or your beatiful city Samarkand, it does not mean that we are Vandals. We are just different and do not want to be like west in our way of Life." I think, you'll consider it, dear Freestyler and others who call them vandals. In my opinion, if they are vandals, you are worse than vandals. That simple.
Cheers, :)

[Lucky]

Educate them? WOW, it would be nice if you said we need to "civilze" them. When the English first came to the Americas, they said, " Wow, Bastards, Savages, look at them they are naked. They do not believe in Christ, they must be heathen. We are chosen people, We gotta get rid of them." The illness of the heart, Ego makes people to think that they are the Best, Baetiful and The Wise. The majority of the english who enslaved the blacks did not know how to read their own books while the savage blacks knew how to read Quran, their only mistake was they did not know how to read in english, LOL :) .Freestyler, I am not saying you yourself need some education but what i am saying is check your vocabulary in your Skull and make sure you have the correct interpretation of "democracy", and "Self-respect", "respect to others" If your understanding of those words differs from the ones in the textbooks, I would suggest you re-educlate yourself, :)
Cheers, :)

[some1two]

Lucky,

it looks like you totaly lost point.
You are not listening and not trying understand what others are talking to you.

Who told you we don't like Tajmahal, Samarqand?
Nobody told you that one who does not accept Mikellanjelo is vandal.

Like what you like, but do not destroy what others appreciate , moreover created. That's the point. And very simple one.
And you are trying to avoid it.

[IcyCool]

it seems this topic become quite popular...

actually I don't think that we can destroy taliban in near future. nowadays taliban is the best trained army in the world, because they were fighting for more than 20 years, have good conventional weaponry, and most important have a lot of money.

for the reasons mentioned above, none of the Afganistan neigbours, nor Iran, nor Pakistan, I won't even mention Central Asian States, can fight and beat Taliban INSIDE afganistan.

as for Americans, they will not send their forces there, americans don't care about kakoy-to tam afganistan. more over, they are using taliban movement for influence on Centaral Asian states. remember when putin came to Tashkent? after several days, american secretary of state jumped to uzbekistan... I can imagine how she threaten our government with talibans. american government want to balance russian influence by using taliban.

from all above I would like to conclude that we have to communicate with talibans, they are real force. we cannot afford clashes with them, because we have something to lose. so, we need to be very careful.

in this view, afandi's propose to "educate" them seems to be reasonable solution; someone said--'"if you cannot destroy organization, then take over it"...

da i potom, rebyata, it pisses me off, when media wants to persuade us that AFGANISTAN is bad. that we have to fight with them... I think this is prejudgical opinion. we should just let them live.

anyway, taliban problem is huge. buddas is nothing compared to ethnical killings in norh afganistan, when they killed turkmens, hazars, or uzbeks. but what can we do about this? nothing, for now. as we cannot do nothing about tibet, east turkestan of tadjikistan problems in china.

[Freestyler-2]

http://www.kavkaz.org/news/2001/03/16/news1.htm

[politik]

И главное: какой вред это принесло европейскому сообществу? Когда уничтожают людей, как это происходит в массовом порядке в Чечне со стороны России, это сообщество молчит, и говорят только отдельные его возмущенные представители, и не гремит на всю Европу заголовками в газетах и выступлениями на высшем уровне. Все это показывает, что за протестом лежат совсем другие мотивы, нежели любовь к историческим и культурным ценностям. Почему-то статуи взрывать – это варварство, а сжигать целые города это в порядке вещей, тем более погребать под бомбами сотни тысяч людей. Извращенность понятий так называемого мирового сообщества настолько вопиющи вызывающая, что даже самые глубинные комментарии не смогут показать всю отвратительную сущность этих понятий.

За показными протестами, которые постарались сделать как можно громче, кроется один и тот же политический мотив, который определяет европейскую политику в отношении Афганистана как исламского государства: не дать этой стране быть видимой силой в мировой политике, пресечь, где можно, попытки возрождения мусульманами своей независимой национальной культуры.

Freestyler, ya ne govoril chto oni ne govoryat o voyne, prosto oni ne pestrayt zagolovkami novostey kak v sluchaye s statuyayimi Buddu. Nu naschot togo chto delayet talibi ya ne odobryayu, te kto razrushayet istoricheskiyi cennosti i vpravdu vandali.
Good night guys.

[nobody]

Nu blyaaa, vot Idioti a. Za kakogoto statuyu jelete. A tam umeraet tisyache LUDEY. A vi zdes blin perejivayte izza nehuya ne nujniy Statuyev. Komu iz vas nujen eto chertovo statuye? Tebe Freestelyr?????? Zachem tebe , ti je ne buddist. Ili ti shitaesh ih proizvideniem iskustv? A u nas malo shtoli takih proizvedenie iskustv? Etogo tebe ne hvatit. I izza chego eto vi rebyata vdrug tak jeleete Statuyev? Mojet vi shitaete ih chasti nashego istorii. Very stupid conclusion. U vas shto est dannie shto nashe predki postroili ih?
Da tam umeraet Ludi. Takie je ludi kak i mi. A etot ebanutie UN, US i Russia postavili ban na prodovolstve i medikamenti? Zachem???? Ved vse je znaet prostie Afganche bez nih prosto mertvi.
OOOOOOOOO, kak je vi lubeteli iskustva, hroniteli nashego istorii. Gde vi bili kogda Indiya unichtojala Machetev Postroinnimi NASHEMI predkami. Gde bili eti chertovo UN ili US. Pochemu im ne postavili BAN?????????? ILI po vashemu Indusam mojna unichtojat Mechetev, ubivat Musilman, istreblyat ih, vigonyat gde ihnie predki jili vekami? A ved eti Mecheti bili nujni LUDYAM . A komu nujen etot Statuye? Komu iz vas ? I pochemu etot UN vdrug zabotilsa o Buddah? Da sami Buddisti nichego je ne govoryat? Huli UN=US imeet pravo vmeshevatsa vo vnutrinnie dela strani?
Ya za BAN na orujie. Ya ne podderjivayu zdes talibanov. Nekak net. No, huli stavit ban na prodovolstve? Ili etot ebanutie Amerikansi dumaet shto Talibani i ihnie Lider Mulla Omar jivyot na shot prodovolstvie UN????????
Nu , blyaaaa rebyata. No vi daete. Gde bil etot UN kogda Ruskie ubivali prostih chechensov, IZNOSILOVALI ihnie DEVESHUK?Oni prodoljaet ubivat i iznasilovat ih? Oni shto ne LUDI? ILI u nih net prava jit svobodna? POCHEMU oni ne stavyat BAN na Rossiyu????????? Pochemu oni ne stavyat BAN Israelu???? Pochemu oni ne stavyat BAN na Kitay, kotoriy unichtajaet seliy Uygurskogo NATSII?
I esho odin TUPAC( ne pomnu kto etot dolboeb) govorit shto Islam i Musilmane ne mojet jit v Mire s drugimi Religiyami, shto oni terroristi, extremisti , blyaa, blyaa.....Eto Musilmani terroristi da? Kogda ih ubivaet vo vseh konsah sveta. Ih UNICHTOJAET kak skoti. Pereselyat iz svoih Rodini gde ihnie predki jili vekami????

[nobody]

A mojet prostie Afgansi protestuet shtobi zashishat BUDDI?
Da kaneshno po vashemu Musilmane nichego ne ponimaet, bez gramotnie , blyaaa, blyaaa, blyaaa, blyaaa. Esli etot UN=US ochen obrazobanniy ili Lubiteli krasoti, ili esho shtoto vrode etogo, pochemu ne pomojet prostim Afgansam? Ne obezatelno bit na ihnie mesta shtobi ponyat etih prostih Ludey. Im je nechego est. Oni eli to shto prinaseli Gumanitarnie Organizatsii. Da vi ponimaete kokoe gore esli blyat chlen tvoey semyi umeraet iz za prostudi. Potomushto, netu Aspirina. Ved oni toje imeet pravo na jizn. Na narmalnoe jizn. Oni ne rozdalis shto umerat kak SOBAKI. NEEE, ya oshibayush. Zdeshnie Sobaki jivyot tisyache raz lutshe chem etot Ludi. A vi blin zdes Statuye, BUDDA, blyaaa blyaaa, blyaa blyaaa.
Da koneshno, vi chitali etih veshey na Newspaperah, smotreli na BBC. Ne budte je pridurkami do takoy stepeni. Ozbekchasiga aytganda, Miya bilan oylash kerak , KO'T bilanmas!!!
Ya nekak ne odobrayu Talibanov. No vi reyata huje ih.

[muslim]

Hey, Nobody Did you make a discovery?
Did not you know that all of these people who are screaming for Buddha are the enemies of Islam? For them this is a good reason to make shitty stuff about Muslims right now. Do you know in Yugoslaviya, around 500 Mosques were destroyed? None talked about them except few people? What about Masjidu Al Aqsa? The Jews put fire on it in 1960's, and so many people died. They say it is ok to kill terrorists, hehe. Who is Vandal, the one who destroys the whole Chehcnya or the one who destroys statues of Buddha? Chehchen Guerrilas, Muslim extremists, who the heck others then? Nazi Russians, bloodthirsty Americans, they are. Hey, Nobody, we do not need their UN, and their mercy. Allahu la ilaha illa huwal hayul qayyum. Allah is enough for us, and He is the best of the Protectors. Say Nobody, "Hell to you and hell to your Statues. Your Statues will take you to the Hell fire unless you repent and come to the straight path. "Concerning non-violence, it is crimminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks." Malcom X was right, these bastards are victimizing Muslims and throwing shit on them.
"There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion.
"Message to the Grass Roots," speech, Nov. 1963, Detroit (published in Malcolm X Speaks, ch. 1, 1965).
"If violence is wrong in America, violence is wrong abroad. If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it is wrong for America to draft us, and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country.Speech, Nov. 1963, New York City." Malcom X.

[nobody]

Tak znachit eto ti Freestyler Lubetel iskustva, hronitel Istorii. Tak znachit tebe jalko Statuyev. Hahaha. MegaZ tebe bi otkrit noviy board--------- Forum Skazok( Fairy tail Board).
Ti sprashival gde te kto tak zashishali Al-Aqsa. Nu vot ya zashishal. Ya zdes.
Freestyler, NIKOGDA ne sravnivay KOLESO s YAYSOM. Inache ludi dogodaetsa o tvoim nenarmalnosti. Ti gde viros. v Chukotke. Izvenyayus pered Jitelyami Chukotki shto ya ih Oskarblyayu.
Poydom dalshe. Vo pervih Al-Aqsa NUJEN Palastinsam kak vozduh i voda. ya ne govoryu ob ostalnom Musilmanskim Mire. Hotya ti ne i Musilman, ti toje znaesh etot ne huje chem ya. A komu nujni eti BUDDI? Oni je ne sprashivaet nas pochemu Uzbeki stavyat pamyatnik Amiri Temiru. Mojet ti shitaesh shto etih veshey nelzya sravnivat. Esli ti tak shitaesh, ochen jal ti mojet pryam shas idti v Psihichekuyu Bolnisu . Talibi stroyat svoi gosudarstvo so svoimi putyami. Oni shtoto unichtojayut, shtoto mojet stroit v budushem, chego to zapreshayut, esho chegoto razreshayut i t.d. I mi toje, Ubrali vseh vojdey, t.e ihnie Statuyi. Nu a potom nachali postroit shtoto, stavyit pamyatniki komuto. Raznitsa mejdu nami i ih shto oni ne stavyat pomyatniki ni komu. Potomushto,...., ti znaesh prichini. Vot , koroche govorya, Al-Aqsa i Statuye Buddi eto razlichnie veshi shtobi ih Sravnivat.
Vo vtorih. Israelityane hochet postroit svoyu THIRD TEMPLE na meste gde stoit Al-Aqsa. Eto oznachaet, shto te mesta Quddusa( kak eto nazivaetsa Ierussalim po Angliskiy) postepenno proydyot na ruki Izraelityan!!!! Ya dumayu ti ponimaesh plani Evreyov lutshe chem ya. A na shot talibov, u kogo oni otobrali etih statuyev Buddi. Mojet s Uzbekistana? Mojet s US, ili Rossiya????? Ili mojet bit oni hotyat pereselyat Musilman na Kitay ili Indiyu gde jivyot Buddisti?????? Shto , ti govorish shto eto ne tak?
Togda pochemu ti sravnivaesh Al-Aqsa s Buddami?
Mojna i prinesti drugie Argumenti, no zachem? Ti vse ravno beryosh za svoego.

[nobody]

Dear Mahmud. I read your post and i totally agree with you. I am tooooooooooo tied that kind of shiting Muslims and me. Day by Day The Question arises. WHO IS TERRORIST? WHO IS EXTREMIST? WHO IS VANDAL? Those who defended their Motherland, their Freedom, Their Daughters, their Mothers from ****ing Russian army in Chechnya? Or who have bombed ordinary people who were innocently sleeping in their bed?
Or may be terrorists are Those who demand their Land and but unfortinaitly cant return to their Motherland in Palastine? Or Those who Destroyed Houses of Palastenians with Buldozers, without warning them, claiming that they havent enough area for strategic purposes?
Nu blyaaat, hammasi jonga tegib ketdi. Da takoy stepeni ESHAKMIYA bolmangar ahir Bollar. Bugun sizlarni va boshkalarni kulogiga korgoshinday kuyishadi Tolibonlar Vandal, Terrorist, sizlarga havf soladi, sizlarni bosib oladi va kirib tashlaydi deb. E, kallavaramlar, agar shu gaplarga sizlar ishonsangizlar oddiy okimagan kochada ozini tirikchiligini kilib yurgan odamdan nimani kutsa boladi? Da takoy stepeni Ahmok bolish shartmasku. Otgan yili US bilan Rossiyani Afgonistonni bombardimon kilgisi kep koldi. Nu blyat, buni uchun Ozbekistondan foydalanishmokchi bolishdi. Yahshiyam Hudo bir sakladi. Nima bolsayam Karimov situatsiyani togri baholay oldi. Lekin Karimov hamma vaqt ham prezident bolavermaydi. Vaqti keladi uyam ketadi. Orniga kim kelardi, ozlarimizni oramizdan chikkan bir "shustriy" da. Bugun bolmasa ertaga, ertaga bolmasa indinga shunaka boladi. Bolsa nima kipti deyizlarmi. Ha , hech nima. Lekin U Ahmok US bilan Rossiyaga, yoki boshka birovga Ozbekiston Aerodromlaridan foydalanishga ruhsat beradi. Nimagaligini hamma biladi. Tushunmaganlar uchun aytib otishim mumkin. Chunki Tolibonlar Vandal, Terrorist, extremist, narkotik tarkatadi butun dunyoga, Sanatni yomon korishadi, Amerika bilan Hitoyni bosib olishmikchi, Ruslarni hammasini kirib tashlamokchi, UK da monarhiyani agdarishadi, Eyfel Minorasini yikitishadi, Toj Mahalni buzib tashlashadi, blyaaa blyaaa, blyaaa blyaaa, blyaa blyaaa. Albatta bu gaplarimni hammasi koshtirnok ichida, yani Ayrimlarning hatto ozlari ham ishinmaydigan fikrlari.
Ana shundan keyin boshlanadi TOMOSHA. Ishkilib Hudo korsatmasin bu kunlarni.
Shuni uchun KALLA bilan oylash kerak, boshka joy bilanmas!!!!!

[nobody]

Kak ya skazal prejde , kakoyto Dalboeb sdelal otkritie--- Musilmane ne mojet jit v Mire s drugimi( eto on skazal po Angliskiy, ya ne smog perevesti ego "svyatie" slovo pravilno, no misl bil shto Musilman eto Terrorist).
Nu blyaaaat. Ey ebanshka, ti znaesh skolko tratit Vatikan kajdiy god shtobi razjech raznoglasie mejdu Musilman. Ne menshee $40 mlrd. Ya koneshno izvenyayus shto moy danniy stariy t.e etot danniy nachala 90-h godov. Shas skolko... Bir Hudo biladi. Da i Evreyi toje ne bednie. Oni toje ne ostavili nas bez svoih shedrostey. Konkretnih sifr ne mogu nazvat, no oni igrayut na Gonku s Papoy Rimskoy kto bolshe tratit i kto bolshe Istreblayayut. I pri etom eto mi Musilmani terroristi, extremisti, fanatiki, fundamentalisti, i t.p.
Shas ya vspomnil odnu istoriyu. Eto sluchilos s moim znakomim , nu ya toje bil s nim togda.
Koroche Ozbekcha aytmasam, Ruschada bolmadi.
Fevral( 1999, 20 lardan song) Toshkent. Yomgir yokkan, hamma er balchik, loy. Haligi tanishim Jinsi shimim loy bolmasin deb pastini kaytarib koygandi. Nu, blyaaa, uni Militsioner tutib olib Vahhobiysan, bolmasa nimaga Shimingni kaytarib koyasan deb Rosaaaaaa Urgandi. Boshiga itni kunini solishdi. Bechora Toshkentni kok markazida turadigan odamni , Toshkentda shahrida va Toshkent oblastitida propuskasi yok deb, tushuntirish hatini yozdirib olishdi. Ha etgancha, haligi tanishim Ozbekistondagi eng ohirgi nominant edi Vahhobiy bolishga. Huh, kulishniyam bilmaydi odam, yiglashniyam. Bechora bitta shimini loy bolishidan korkib ayagani uchun butun umri kuyib ketmokchi edi. Aytmokchi bolganim SANLARAM ana shu Militsiyadan hech kanaka ortik joylaring yok.
Musilmonlarni Bir tarafda Hristianlar kiradi, bir tarafda Evreylar, Bir tarafda Hindular, yana bir tarafda Buddistlar, ortada esa Ateistlar kirishadi. Ohir okibat kim aybdor-----> Musilmonlar.
Ishkilib Yaratganni ozi saklasin hamma balo kazodan.
Hamma Birodarlarga Omad okish va ishlarida.

nobody.

[Lucky]

Ne goryachis dorogoy brat in Islam. You know very well, everything is gonna be alright :) Do you know the music, i forgot the title, approximately like this, "We are the winners..."? The others, it was for Nobody, please, do not take me wrong and reply to this message. Only "Nobody" knows what I am talkin' about. it is between me and Nobody.
Cheers, :)

[Freestyler@]

"Nu blyaaa, vot Idioti a. Za kakogoto statuyu jelete. A tam umeraet tisyache LUDEY. A vi zdes blin perejivayte izza nehuya ne nujniy Statuyev."

Vo-pervih, kak ya uje skazal, nekotorim zdes' prosto ne dano ponyat' koye kakiye veshi!
Vo-vtorih, s chego ti vzyal chto mne po### do umirayushih lyudey v Afganistane?!?!?!?!?

Koroche, skol'ko bi vi tam ne zashishali talibov fakt ostayotsya faktom. (I ya ne imel nikakoy drugoy celi kak tol'ko pokazat' etot fakt)

Tak vot, vsyo chto vitvoryayut talibi - nichto inoye kak akt vandalizma!
TALEBAN -VANDALI!
Vsyo chto oni delayut nikak ne pomojet umirayushim tam lyudyam!
Krome togo svoimi deystviyami oni prodoljayut diskreditirovat' ne tol'ko sebya, no i Islam v glazah ostal'nogo mira! I eto yesho ne vsyo: vot takimi, myagko govorya, blizorukimi postupkami oni v principe razvyazivayut ruki i dayut pochvu dlya opravdaniya nasil'stvennih deystviy protiv nih.
Eto vsyo konechno ne govorya o tom, chto oni prinosyat uron kul'ture i istorii svoyey rodini (chergo konechno ni nekotorim iz vas, ni im ne dano ponyat' vvidu svoyego fanatizma) (Prosto smirites' :))



U menya ne bilo nikakogo namereniya obsujdat' demokratiyu v UK ili v US (u <Lucky> voobshe talant prigat' s gori v okean), ili kakiye "svyatiye" mi sami i nekotoriye nashi sosedi.

Yedinstvennoye chto ya hotel sdelat' - eto pokazat' zerkalo talebana. Sudya po vsemu to, chto vi tam uvideli vam ne ponravilos'.
(Ne penyay na zerkalo koli roja kriva! Starinnaya russkaya posovica)

Topic dlya menya lichno - zakrit!
(you may go on, of course)

Keep it Sober

P.S. Freestyler-2 - a ne kajetsya tebe, chto ti zabil kupit' patent ;) (Take it easy)

[some1twp]

Ya nadeyus' ne vse musul'mane takie poteriannie kak ya ih viju zdes'.

U vas paranoia chto vse musul'man obijayut.Poetomu vi prinimaete eto na svoy schet tak blizko.

Takih je fanatikov hvataet i u hristian i evereev. To chto vi musul'mane-fanatiki vas ne delaet luchshe.

A voobshe, okazivaetsya znanie korana i lubov' k Allahu, eshe ne garantiruet ni um , ni mudrost', ni obshiy zdraviy smisl.

Nobody snachalo nauchis' virajat' svoi misli gramotno, i bez oskorbitel'nih slov. Ili u tebia prosto net argumentov?
Slabovati vi eshe chtobi chtat' moral' musul'manam. Razve tol'ko talibam v ih okopah, vashi argumenti budut kak raz vporu.
Esli vi takie zabotlivie, ya bi vam posovetoval poehat' i pomoch' talibam.
Chto je vi svoi zadnici berejote? Ne toropites' vnesti svoyu leptu? Ya bi posmotrel kak bi izmenilos' vashe otnoshenie
k rejimu talibov uje cherez paru dney.

Ne nado trebovat' u UN togo na chto ne reshaetes' vi i vashi talibi, a imennno: UN pomogaet pod pulyami prostomu narodu.

[Lucky]

Hey go and take it easy,
Bor daminngni oley, senlarga odam deb gapirib o'tirganlar ham ahmoq ekan, tuzalmiydigan kassalliklaring bor ekanu.
Cheers, :)

[qwerty]

some1twp -> che eto za virazhenie nadeyus' ne vse musul'mane takie poteriannie kak ya ih viju zdes' ? Mozhesh ti oboytis' bez oskorbleniy ili net? Ne verish - tvoe delo, no zachem veruyushih oskorblyat'? Kto zhe tolerantnee? Ti kak ateist ili veruyushie uchastniki diskussii?

Ne hotel sporit' ne etu temu - bespoleznie debati, no posle takogo povorota diskussii prosto ne viderzhal.

[nobody]

Wohahaha..... some1two. Ahmoklik peshonangga yozilgan ekan buni uchun boshka birovlarni ayblama. Senga yena bir marta aytaman, OZBEKCHALAB, MAN Tolibonlarni tarafini olayotganim yok , hech kachon olmaganman ham.
Meni argumentlarimga kelsak, ular argumentmas FAQT!!! tushundimngmi. EEEEEEEE, san tushunsang ham tushunmaganga olasan.
Ikkinchidan, mani misllarimni gramotna virajatsa kilish togrisida. Togri tan olaman. Man Ruschani yahshi bilmayman. Shuni uchun KECHIRASIZ honim afandi.
Uchinchidan, WOHAHAHA. Kim aytdi sizga honim afandi , shto man bu erda Musilmonlarga Moral okiyapti deb??????? Man Musilmon Birodarlaga bunakangi "CHIROYLI" sozlarni hech kachon ravo kormayman.
Hmmmm, manda yozishda problem bolsa , sanda okib hulosa chikarishda problem ekan. Heh, hechkisi yok, Beayb Parvardigor. Ishkilib, yozishimnimiey, virazatsa kilishimnimiey urganim olarman.A tak 6 oy boldi boshlaganimga Ruscha gapirib, prosto Ruschada SIZga bolgan chukur TUYGULARIMni izhor etish osonrok tuyildi. HAHAHA.
"A voobshe, okazivaetsya znanie korana i lubov' k Allahu, eshe ne garantiruet ni um , ni mudrost', ni obshiy zdraviy smisl."<------ Mana bu gaping sening STUPID one ekanliginni isbotlovchi FACT( ne argument). WOHAHA. EEE, tovuqmiya, oldin ishtoningni topib olgin ishtonsiz , keyin gaplashamiz san bilan o Znanie Korana i lubov k ALLAH (JJ)u.
WOHAHA, nima ozimni zadnisamni berech kilmay senikini berech kilaymi? Man ozim haqimda gapirganim yok birinchidan. Razve shto , bir ikki erda ozim korgan narsalarimni yozgandim.Islomda BROTHERHOOD degan narsa bor. Ateizmda nima deyilardiya..... togrisini atsam bilmiman uni kanday nomlanishini silani diningizda.
Hmmmm, aytdimku Honim afandi, kalla bilan oylash kerak deb, boshka joy bilanmas. Ha etgancha esdan chikib ketibdi, that u cant do it.
Nima fantik deysanmi. Hahahaha. Mani jiyanlarim yahshi koradi fantik oynashni.
A tak, bu erda sanga gapirib otirgandan foyda yok. Bitta virajeniya bor Ozbekchada----- eshakni kulogiga tanbur chertma ---- degan. Endi man bitta iskluchenie bolmokchi edim. Heh, bolmadi bottayam. WOHAHAHA.
Vobsheto, mani hato yozgan erlarimni togirlab post kilsang judayam minnatdor bolar edim. Mani Rus tili kursimga ochen pomoglo bi.

Take it HARD TUPAC.

Birodarlarga omad tilab
nobody.

[cute]

Salom hammaga,
Bir-biringizga sal-pal bo'lsayam hurmat-ehtiromda bo'ling. Bu yerdagilar bor yo'g'i o'z fikrini bildirayapti, balki noto'g'ridir, lekin bor yo'g'i fikr. Manimcha bu qoganlarga past nazar bilan qarashga asos bo'la olmaydi.

Taleban afg'on halqiga balkim tinchlik olib kelgandir, buni bilmadim, lekin haqiqatni ikki tomoniga qarasak, hamma narsa bo'lishi mumkin degan fikrga kelsa bo'ladi. Balkim haqiqattan ham o'sha tinchlikka erishilgandir. Tarihda qonho'r, yoki urushib hammani sindirgan kuchlarni oddiy halq qo'llaganini ko'rish mumkin, misollar ko'p, halq urush vaqtida tinkasi qurigandan keyin, kim bo'lsa ham hammani yengib davlatni qo'liga olsin, man donimni ekib unimni olay degan ma'noda.
To'g'risini aytganda, davlatta tinchlik, taraqqiyot bo'lsa, umuman halq o'zini qilib o'rgangan ishini qila olsa, va hamma shundan hursand bo'lsa(hatto noto'g'ri bo'lgan taqdirda ham), davlatni tepasida kim turishi, qanaqa tuzum boshqarishi, ularning ideologik yoki diniy qarashlarini farqi yo'q. Agar tolibon shu narsalarga erishsa, manimcha, afg'onistonni boshqarishga to'liq huquqlari bor. Lekin bunga ishonish judayam qiyin, terror siyosatga aylanganidan keyin bu narsaga umuman erishib bo'lmaydi, yoki hali ancha vaqt bor.
Asosiy masalaga , haykallarni buzilishiga kelsak, buni umuman tolibonni yahshi yoki yomonligi bilan bog'lab qaramaslik kerak. Kimdir yomon bo'lsa ham yahshi ishlar qilishi mumkin, yoki aksi, yahshi bo'lsa ham ming jinoyatni qilishi mumkin.
Lekin bu yerda ,nima edi haligi, "o'z fikridan, yoki qarashlaridan farqli bo'lgan narsaga betoqatlik bilan qarash" bor, hatto umuman uni yo'q qilish. Bu judayam salbiy, haykallarni tarihiy bo'lishi, va umuman madaniyatning bir parchasi bo'lishi buni battarroq salbiy qiladi.

[Freestyler']

Tinchlik, tinchlik... :(

Tinchlik bivayet horoshiy i plohoy!
To bish civilisovanniy i totalitarniy. Vtoroy iz nih kak pokazivayet istoriya k horoshemu ne privodit

Also disagree with this:
"Kimdir yomon bo'lsa ham yahshi ishlar qilishi mumkin, yoki aksi, yahshi bo'lsa ham ming jinoyatni qilishi mumkin." (Cute)
I always thought that a person is appreceieted according to his/her deeds.
So what then defines a good person if not his deeds, Cute?

[cute]

Freestyler,
"Kimdir yomon bo'lsa ham yahshi ishlar qilishi mumkin, yoki aksi, yahshi bo'lsa ham ming jinoyatni qilishi mumkin."
Ya skazal eto k tomu chto ne vsyo nado sudit obosnuyas' v tom chto ono, in general plohoye ili horosheye. Prosto topic ne Taleban v tselom a Akt Vandalizma ili desrtuction etc. Diskussiya idet o polyah narkotikov kotoriye Taleban razrushil, ili Taleban kak vinovniki situatsii v Afganistane. Ochen malo o samoy teme kotoraya bila podnyata.
Good Luck