Uzbek government limits permits for Mecca pilgrimage

[MirzoBobur]

Assalomu Alaykum Forumdoshlar

Navbat Hajga keldi choqi
www.asianews.it

Only 5,000 permits will be granted for the Haj that starts at the end of the month, although there are 25,000 places available

more (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=7955)

[Aziz]

Assalomu Alaykum Forumdoshlar

Navbat Hajga keldi choqi
www.asianews.it

Only 5,000 permits will be granted for the Haj that starts at the end of the month, although there are 25,000 places available

more (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=7955)

that's right about 25,000 places.
Saudi Arabia gave a maximum ratio of 1/1000 for evey country.

[MirzoBobur]

Nuqul har bir narsadan shubha qilaverishsi

Qaytanga Vatandoshlarimiz farz qilib qo'yilgan Haj amallarini bajarsa, iymonlik bo'lsa yaxshi emasmi.

Pastlik ham buncha bo'lmabdi da

[melo]

I don't understand. The Uzbek government has to approve people leaving the country with some sort of exit visa???? :shock: How does anyone get to leave to study or work? :shock: Do you have to pay for the exit visa? :shock:

[daka]

It is unfortunate that our brothers and sisters wont be able do Haj. May Allah be with those who have the best intentions to perform Haj.

I don't understand. The Uzbek government has to approve people leaving the country with some sort of exit visa???? :shock: How does anyone get to leave to study or work? :shock: Do you have to pay for the exit visa? :shock:

Yes, in order to leave the country you need to get an exit permission from Uzbekistan. Same principal like foreign passport in Russia. The idea behind it is that when you apply for visa to any foreign country instead of the embassy doing a criminal background check , your country simplifies the procedure for the embassy by checking your background and issuing you an exit permission. Embassies wont issue anyone a visa without the exit permission, unless you are asking for a political asylum. Yes, you do pay a fee for the exit permission.

[melo]

Yes, in order to leave the country you need to get an exit permission from Uzbekistan. Same principal like foreign passport in Russia. The idea behind it is that when you apply for visa to any foreign country instead of the embassy doing a criminal background check , your country simplifies the procedure for the embassy by checking your background and issuing you an exit permission. Embassies wont issue anyone a visa without the exit permission, unless you are asking for a political asylum. Yes, you do pay a fee for the exit permission.

So why does the government allow people to leave for work or study? :( I have read before how they do not want people studying abroad. I am very confused. Is this how Turkmenistan restricts anyone from leaving the country? :shock: I just read that Kyrgyzstan will only allow people to travel to the Haj on its national airlines. :? Everyone always took a bus from the town I lived in. I am guessing that is not legal anymore?:? It sounded really difficult to me without the Kyrgyz government interfering. I figured almost every other country along the way would cause problems though. :(

[MirzoBobur]

I don't understand. The Uzbek government has to approve people leaving the country with some sort of exit visa???? :shock: How does anyone get to leave to study or work? :shock: Do you have to pay for the exit visa? :shock:
You live in Mexico :lol: , right, as matter of fact u don't understand man, it is Uzbekiston any kind of dumb rules which can be issued by goverbment.
U aren' t believing your eyes, if you visit to Uzbekiston for week I assume you I don't understand how they are living these kind of restricted police:uups:

You are huppy, becouse of not borning in Uzbekistan

[daka]

So why does the government allow people to leave for work or study? :( I have read before how they do not want people studying abroad. I am very confused. Is this how Turkmenistan restricts anyone from leaving the country? :shock: I just read that Kyrgyzstan will only allow people to travel to the Haj on its national airlines. :? Everyone always took a bus from the town I lived in. I am guessing that is not legal anymore?:? It sounded really difficult to me without the Kyrgyz government interfering. I figured almost every other country along the way would cause problems though. :(

Besides the idea of getting background checked for the foreign embassy getting an exit permission is not like in Turkmenistan but more like in Soviet times when the government wanted to be informed about its citizens whereabouts. I must say at times getting an exit permission could be a rigamarole. In my opionion, getting an exit permission has nothing to do with government allowing its people work or study abroad, if anybody gets rejected for exit permission it is only because they didnt bribe certain amoral official who had the power to issue the document. But at the same time I must admit this is a really good mechanism for government to limit people's mobility by not granting them the exit visa. As for Kyrgyz people, I dont know the situation there but I can only guess that without legal papers these travellers might face paperwork problems on Haj trip.

[melo]

Besides the idea of getting background checked for the foreign embassy getting an exit permission is not like in Turkmenistan but more like in Soviet times when the government wanted to be informed about its citizens whereabouts. I must say at times getting an exit permission could be a rigamarole. In my opionion, getting an exit permission has nothing to do with government allowing its people work or study abroad, if anybody gets rejected for exit permission it is only because they didnt bribe certain amoral official who had the power to issue the document. But at the same time I must admit this is a really good mechanism for government to limit people's mobility by not granting them the exit visa. As for Kyrgyz people, I dont know the situation there but I can only guess that without legal papers these travellers might face paperwork problems on Haj trip.

My experiences make me wonder if it matters if you have the proper documents or not. I am guessing they just pay a fee at each border crossing until they make it to Saudi Arabia. I can almost guarantee that the people I knew did not get proper documentation from each of the countries between Kyrgyzstan and Mecca. I am not sure how they would do that if they wanted to. I am not expert though and I never actually asked for all the details.

Also, you say it is similar to the Soviet Union, but I was also under the impression that the Soviet Union did not allow much travel abroad either (other than eastern europe).

You live in Mexico , right, as matter of fact u don't understand man, it is Uzbekiston any kind of dumb rules which can be issued by goverbment.
U aren' t believing your eyes, if you visit to Uzbekiston for week I assume you I don't understand how they are living these kind of restricted police
Mexico is an interesting place too, but it never learned population travel control from the Soviet Union. Mexico is happy when people go abroad. They get upset when the US tries to restrict it. :lol: It's like a different planet.

[daka]

My experiences make me wonder if it matters if you have the proper documents or not. I am guessing they just pay a fee at each border crossing until they make it to Saudi Arabia. I can almost guarantee that the people I knew did not get proper documentation from each of the countries between Kyrgyzstan and Mecca. I am not sure how they would do that if they wanted to. I am not expert though and I never actually asked for all the details. I was also under the impression that the Soviet Union did not allow much travel abroad either (other than eastern europe).

With all due respect to International Law, I am glad that the world is not without religious people who believe in GOD! I am glad to know that those people who went Haj without documents were able to make it.
As for you, now we know you are not an adventurist, you should have gone with them on the bus, what a waste of an opportunity to check out the international law:D

As for Soviet times, people did travel to a lot of "soviet" countries around the world, dont forget that Atpaint aka:)

[melo]

With all due respect to International Law, I am glad that the world is not without religious people who believe in GOD! I am glad to know that those people who went Haj without documents were able to make it.
As for you, now we know you are not an adventurist, you should have gone with them on the bus, what a waste of an opportunity to check out the international law:D

That is what I think also. I can't imagine how evil people would be to stop them from traveling. :? I am sure there are extensive searches and plenty of problems along the way. They always seemed to make it back okay though. :D The whole idea of the government restricting it is terrible.

I lived on the Kyrgyz Uzbek border and people would have weddings on the Uzbek side of the border. I was always told that for a wedding they would let everyone cross without any problems. They actually drove a bus across. I never tried that either. I figured I would stand out from everyone else. :lol: I would love to tell you about all the adventures I skipped out on and all the ones I was forced into. :D

[daka]

That is what I think also. I can't imagine how evil people would be to stop them from traveling. :?
I know!:)

I lived on the Kyrgyz Uzbek border and people would have weddings on the Uzbek side of the border. I was always told that for a wedding they would let everyone cross without any problems. They actually drove a bus across. I never tried that either. I figured I would stand out from everyone else. :lol: I would love to tell you about all the adventures I skipped out on and all the ones I was forced into. :D

Atpaint, did anyone bothered to study the laws in your "kishlok on the border"? If you live in kishlok close to the borders between Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzistan then you dont have to acquire complicated papers to cross the border, all you need is your passport to show the border official your kishlok address registration.
But for you since you are a foreigner, it could have been different, though you could say that you were the groom:) Now about your adventures I want to know about the ones that you were forced into:shock:
Sorry for off toping and teaching foreigners to break the law:uups:

[melo]

I know!:)



Atpaint, did anyone bothered to study the laws in your "kishlok on the border"? If you live in kishlok close to the borders between Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzistan then you dont have to acquire complicated papers to cross the border, all you need is your passport to show the border official your kishlok address registration.
But for you since you are a foreigner, it could have been different, though you could say that you were the groom:) Now about your adventures I want to know about the ones that you were forced into:shock:
Sorry for off toping and teaching foreigners to break the law:uups:

ok you forced me way off topic now. Officially to cross the Uzbek-Kyrgyz border a visa is required. Unofficially one shashlik to the border guards or there are houses along the border or other "secret crossings" that will get you across.;) Recently border control has become very strict though. From what I hear it is more difficult to cross now. I will keep my top secret stories off the forum though. :lol:

[daka]

ok you forced me way off topic now. Officially to cross the Uzbek-Kyrgyz border a visa is required. Unofficially one shashlik to the border guards or there are houses along the border or other "secret crossings" that will get you across.;) Recently border control has become very strict though. From what I hear it is more difficult to cross now. I will keep my top secret stories off the forum though. :lol:

I forced you:shock: participance on will tovarish Atpaintov:) Never let anyone to force you to do anything, stand on your still ground!:cool:
By very strict you mean, 2 shashliks to border guards right!:lol:
As for your top secrets no reason to make your confidential "spy" secrets public on forum, that should be the medias job to search for secrets;)
Sorry, for the off top!:uups:

[kipchak]

Значит выездная виза - это всего лишь механизм для "limit people's mobility", мм, а если не получил визу то всего лишь надо было обратиться к "amoral officer".. Дака - ты опять не в ту степь ударилась по моему

Atpaint - ты же млин, некоторое время назад, в грудь бил доказывал что знаешь что для Узб нужно, мол прозрение у тебя было после работы в том регионе. А тут выясняется ты не понимаешь принцип работы выездной визы и ее место в государственно строении УЗБ.. Ну ну.

Важно наличие механизма, это главное. А то что плохо работает не виноват механизм, а виноваты люди.

Так так, теперь вопрос к обоим, чисто по теме, теперь объясните как почему это всего лишь квоту в 5000 сделали для УЗБ - исходя из вашей беседы, а то так и будете воду в ступе толочь:)

мир вам.

[Black]

Значит выездная виза - это всего лишь механизм для "limit people's mobility", мм, а если не получил визу то всего лишь надо было обратиться к "amoral officer".. Дака - ты опять не в ту степь ударилась по моему

Atpaint - ты же млин, некоторое время назад, в грудь бил доказывал что знаешь что для Узб нужно, мол прозрение у тебя было после работы в том регионе. А тут выясняется ты не понимаешь принцип работы выездной визы и ее место в государственно строении УЗБ.. Ну ну.

Важно наличие механизма, это главное. А то что плохо работает не виноват механизм, а виноваты люди.

Так так, теперь вопрос к обоим, чисто по теме, теперь объясните как почему это всего лишь квоту в 5000 сделали для УЗБ - исходя из вашей беседы, а то так и будете воду в ступе толочь:)

мир вам.
Kipchak, on je ne ponimaet ruskogo.....
Vo vtorih, nikto kvotu dlya Uzbekistana 5000 ne sdelal. Kvota dlya Uzbekistana bolshe 25 000 (1 mesta k 1000). No u nas v Uzbekistane razreshili tolko 5000 ludey, kogda mojno otpravit bolee 25000.

[anchio]

Besides the idea of getting background checked for the foreign embassy getting an exit permission is not like in Turkmenistan but more like in Soviet times when the government wanted to be informed about its citizens whereabouts. I must say at times getting an exit permission could be a rigamarole. In my opionion, getting an exit permission has nothing to do with government allowing its people work or study abroad, if anybody gets rejected for exit permission it is only because they didnt bribe certain amoral official who had the power to issue the document. But at the same time I must admit this is a really good mechanism for government to limit people's mobility by not granting them the exit visa. As for Kyrgyz people, I dont know the situation there but I can only guess that without legal papers these travellers might face paperwork problems on Haj trip.

gov't doesnot restrict people going out of country. this exit permit doesnot mean that they dont want folks go to study, work, etc. the thing is that they want to see your background whether you have a criminal background, and if it is ok to let you go.
until now, i heard no one (that i know) that got rejected from the exit permit.
me myself got it twice, and no problem. now gotta get it again soon.

[Shokirbek]

Ya razgovarival segodnya s odnim iz predstaviteley delami hadja respubliki Tajikistan, kolichestvo palomnikov v etom godu u nix 6 000 chelovek, 1000 sht. bol'she chem u nas.

[wyxpat]

Assalomu Alaykum Forumdoshlar

Navbat Hajga keldi choqi
www.asianews.it

Only 5,000 permits will be granted for the Haj that starts at the end of the month, although there are 25,000 places available

more (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=7955)Бу янгилик эмас-ку, нега энди "навбат келди" дейсиз? бу лимит ааанча бўлиб кетганку жорий қилинганига. Азианевсдагила эээнди уйғониб қолишганга ўхшайди.
+ why should uzbek gov't care about the limits set by saudia gov't?

[melo]

gov't doesnot restrict people going out of country. this exit permit doesnot mean that they dont want folks go to study, work, etc. the thing is that they want to see your background whether you have a criminal background, and if it is ok to let you go.
until now, i heard no one (that i know) that got rejected from the exit permit.
me myself got it twice, and no problem. now gotta get it again soon.

Isn't the exit visa how they would restrict people from going on the Haj? :? How else can they limit the number to 5,000?

[wyxpat]

Isn't the exit visa how they would restrict people from going on the Haj? :? How else can they limit the number to 5,000?exit visa isn't the way of restricting the number of people going on the Hajj. The allowed number of people is announced by Diniy Idora.

[kipchak]

Kipchak, on je ne ponimaet ruskogo.....
Vo vtorih, nikto kvotu dlya Uzbekistana 5000 ne sdelal. Kvota dlya Uzbekistana bolshe 25 000 (1 mesta k 1000). No u nas v Uzbekistane razreshili tolko 5000 ludey, kogda mojno otpravit bolee 25000.

Он еще как понимает на русском, насчет квоты я не в курсе, просто сижу и наблюдаю за беседой.

[daka]

gov't doesnot restrict people going out of country. this exit permit doesnot mean that they dont want folks go to study, work, etc..
Did I say they do? Can you please re-read my post.

the thing is that they want to see your background whether you have a criminal background, and if it is ok to let you go.. Yes, I agree that is exactly how I explained it.

until now, i heard no one (that i know) that got rejected from the exit permit..
Good for you. But I have heard a number of people who were rejected for different reasons.

me myself got it twice, and no problem. now gotta get it again soon. Congratulations and good luck in getting it again.

As for the topic, here is the link to the complete article on Forum 18
http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=884

Personally, I think the government is still sensitive about certain religious groups and therefore "v zelyah profilaktiki" limiting the number of people and sending only people of certain age group to Haj. Also, if government allocates money to them then the issue could be the shortage of funds as well.
Now about International Regulations, even though in the past the number of allowed pilgrims from each country was based on 1,000 per million of its population it also could be that Saudi Arabia is trying to accomodate our fellow brothers and sisters from countries where the number of Muslim population is growing. So it could be that Saudi Arabia asked the countries that have been sending pilgrims before to limit the number of pilgrims this year.

[melo]

Personally, I think the government is still sensitive about certain religious groups and therefore "v zelyah profilaktiki" limiting the number of people and sending only people of certain age group to Haj. Also, if government allocates money to them then the issue could be the shortage of funds as well.
Now about International Regulations, even though in the past the number of allowed pilgrims from each country was based on 1,000 per million of its population it also could be that Saudi Arabia is trying to accomodate our fellow brothers and sisters from countries where the number of Muslim population is growing. So it could be that Saudi Arabia asked the countries that have been sending pilgrims before to limit the number of pilgrims this year.

I seriously don't know about this topic so that is why I am asking so many questions. Does the government really help people with money? :shock: Everyone I know had to pay for it themselves. My friend's father lived in uzbekistan(the stupid border causes a lot of problems) and it was more expensive for them because the Uzbek government made them fly with Uzbekistan airlines and some other things I can't rememeber now. I don't think he received any financial help for it either.

[MirzoBobur]

Бу янгилик эмас-ку, нега энди "навбат келди" дейсиз? бу лимит ааанча бўлиб кетганку жорий қилинганига. Азианевсдагила эээнди уйғониб қолишганга ўхшайди.
+ why should uzbek gov't care about the limits set by saudia gov't?

To'gri aytasiz, lekin kecha Andijonda choyxoanlarda aroq sottirishga majburlash boshlangani, Azonlar ovozi o'chilgani dan sal o'tmay bu xabar chiqqani. Uni ustiga O'zbekistonliklar Saudiya tamonidan qancha limit berilsa hammasini to'ldirib yana bizga joy ajrating deydigan darajada iymonlik xalq shunday limitlar qo'yilgani kishini achig;ini keltiradi, uni ustiga Diniy idoramizni buday qisqartishni ikki qo'llab quvvatlashini aytmaysizmi...

[daka]

I seriously don't know about this topic so that is why I am asking so many questions. Does the government really help people with money? :shock: Everyone I know had to pay for it themselves. My friend's father lived in uzbekistan(the stupid border causes a lot of problems) and it was more expensive for them because the Uzbek government made them fly with Uzbekistan airlines and some other things I can't rememeber now. I don't think he received any financial help for it either.
Atpaint, to be honest, I dont know if government supports the pilgrims, I mentioned that in my previous post as an "if" they do, then it could be one of the reasons why the government cut down the numbers. I gave all of my reasons why I think we have the situation as it is. If anyone in this forum, had a relative or someone they know who did Haj in recent years, please share the insights and how much was government supporting the pilgrims.
Thank you.

[infolife]

I think it would be more of a useful topic if we discuss what countries do actually limit the number of people going Haj each year by the state regulated religious boards and for what reason.

it's so sad and soooooo unbearable that some of my friends here dont beleive if I say you have to have state permission to go on Haj. how come you cant set off few days before the Eid, organize your own trip but rather have to be on the waiting list for at least a year:?