Власти Австралии предложили мусульманам покинуть страну

[Royal]

Власти Австралии предложили мусульманам покинуть страну

Это не совсем новость, но именно на нее частенько ссылаются во многих коментариях, поэтому я взял на себя смелость разместить ее на сайте... Итак:

В Австралии опубликован указ, принятый 20 сентября, в котором говорится о том, что мусульманам, желающим жить в Австралии по законам шариата, придется покинуть эту страну, поскольку правительство ощущает от данной категории граждан угрозу терактов.

Указ этот адресован арабо-мусульманским иммигрантам. На следующий день после того, как группа умеренных мусульман, на специальной встрече с премьер-министром Австралии Джоном Говардом, принесла присягу верности Австралии и королеве, Говард и его министры сделали однозначное заявление о том, что на экстремистов обрушится вся тяжесть закона. Министр финансов Питер Костелло, считающийся наследником Говарда на посту премьер-министра, намекнул, что некоторых радикальных шейхов могут попросить покинуть страну, если они не примирятся с тем фактом, что Австралия - секулярное государство, в котором законы принимаются парламентом.

"Если эти ценности не являются вашими, если вы хотите жить в стране, в которой правит закон шариата, или в теократическом государстве, то тогда Австралия не для вас", - заявил Костелло, выступая по государственному телевидению. "Я бы сказал клерикалам, которые учат, что в Австралии имеются две системы закона - австралийская и исламская, что это ложь. Если вы не можете согласиться с парламентским законом, независимыми судами, демократией, предпочитаете закон шариата и можете уехать в другую страну, вероятно, это лучший вариант", - недвусмысленно заявил он. Костелло сказал, что обладателей двойного гражданства, возможно, попросят уехать в страну их второго гражданства.

В свою очередь, министр просвещения Брендан Нельсон сказал журналистам, что мусульмане, которые не хотят принять местные ценности, должны "убраться". "По сути, люди, которые не хотят быть австралийцами и которые не хотят жить в соответствии с австралийскими ценностями и понимать их, что ж, они могут убираться", - сказал он. Говард привел в бешенство местных мусульман, когда он заявил, что поддерживает слежку за австралийскими мечетями со стороны служб безопасности. "Иммигранты, а не австралийцы, должны приспособиться. Принимайте или убирайтесь. Мне надоело, что наша страна должна постоянно волноваться по поводу того, не обижаем ли мы каких-то людей или их культуру", - заявил Брендан Нельсон. "Мы говорим в основном по-английски, а не на испанском, ливанском, арабском, китайском, японском, русском или любом другом языке. Поэтому, если вы хотите стать частью нашего общества, учите наш язык! Большинство австралийцев верят в Бога. Это не какая-то христианская, правая, политическая доктрина, а факт, потому что христианские мужчины и женщины создали эту страну на христианских принципах, и это четко зафиксировано в документах. Безусловно, уместно выставлять это на стенах наших школ. Если Бог оскорбляет вас, то я предлагаю вам рассмотреть возможность переезда в другую часть света, потому что Бог - это часть нашей культуры", - подчеркнул он. nnm.ru

[ville]

To'g'ri, shunday qilish kerak. Secular qonunni tan olmasang, bu yerda yashama. Ovro'pada ham shunday islohot zarur.
Ammo-lekin oraga xristianlarni tiqishtirgani hech ham yaxshi ish emas. Yomg'irdan qutulib, do'lga tutilishday gap, secularmisan, oxirigacha bo'l, "Jesus Christ"'ni bayroq qilmasdan.

[arinum]

Strange, I thought we all believe in the same God, maybe differently, and we call Him differently, but it is stated in Quran even. People who want to engage in politics based upon augmented things which make us different should be ready for the things described in this article. I don't find it unnormal or irrelevant.

[Han]

xalifalik davrida g'ayri dinlarni quvishmagandi, qatliom qilishmagandi...
chunki islomda hamma narsa inson uchun, inson esa yaratgan uchundir...

lekin na insoniyatdan na xudodan behabar soxta xudojo'ylaru soxta humanistlar o'zlaridek fikrlamagan hech bir INSONga hayot-yashash haq-huquqi ham berishmaydi...

Hatto unday insonlarning umuman bu dunyoda yashashiga ham tahammul qila olishmaydi, chiday olishmaydi, ko'ra olishmaydi...

Yana "demokratiya, xalq, ozodlik" deyishlariga ku qarg'alar kuladiya...

[nemets]

На русском есть пословица "в чужую избу со своим уставом не ходят". Тем кто хочет устроить себе свои законы, нужно обратно на Родину, где ети законы действуют.

[ville]

xalifalik davrida g'ayri dinlarni quvishmagandi, qatliom qilishmagandi...
chunki islomda hamma narsa inson uchun, inson esa yaratgan uchundir...

lekin na insoniyatdan na xudodan behabar soxta xudojo'ylaru soxta humanistlar o'zlaridek fikrlamagan hech bir INSONga hayot-yashash haq-huquqi ham berishmaydi...

Hatto unday insonlarning umuman bu dunyoda yashashiga ham tahammul qila olishmaydi, chiday olishmaydi, ko'ra olishmaydi...

Yana "demokratiya, xalq, ozodlik" deyishlariga ku qarg'alar kuladiya...

Haa, islom juda-juda insonsevar din :)
Shundayin insonparvarki, kofirlar qoniga belanishni halol, deydi, qo'l-oyoq, kalla kesish kabi "insonparvar" jazolarni qo'llaydi, xotin-qizlarni diskriminaciya qiladi, muslimdan boshqasini do'st tutmang, deb yana va yana diskriminaciya qiladi. Eee, bu faqat islomga xos emas, boshqa dinlar ham shundayin g'addorliklarni olqishlaydi.
Agar secularism yoqmasa, marhamat, hech kim sizni ushlab turmayapti, Buyuk Britaniyada, AQShda, Kanadada, Daniyada sizni "ko'ra olishmayotgan" bo'lishsa, daf bo'ling Saudiyaga, Misrga, boshqasiga. Qani, 500 million musulmon yig'ilsin-chi, Arab o'lkasiga, ko'ramiz mazhablararo urushlar-u (ki hozir ham bo'layapti), yerlik xalq hegemoniyasini...
Yashab turgan joyingizning bergan tuzlig'iga tupuryapsiz, nonko'rlar...

[The Reaper]

Finally!
Took them long enough. If I was there, I'd happily help them pack! :D

TR

[Prince]

Muslim living on non muslim land must follow their rules and everything!

[arinum]

But they don't have right to impose those rules and everything on others.

[Shokirbek]

To'g'ri, musulmonlar ozchilik bo'lgan yerlarda o'sha joylarning secular qonunlariga rioya qilishsin debsiz, yaxshi..

Lekin musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda nega endi ular boshiga majburiy secular qonunlar ijro etilishi kerak? Shu adolatdanmi, o'rtoq adolat homiylari? Modomiki nomusulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan davlatlar ichida secular qonunlariga rioya qilish adolatdan ekan, demokratik hol ekan, musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda islomiy qonun-qoidalar tashkil qilinishi terror yoki radikalizm hisoblanib, ular ustiga secular qonunlar ijro qilinishi adolat hisoblanishi insofdanmi?

[Prince]

Shokir aka siz aytayotgan - narsalar DEMOKRATIK davlatga togri kelmaydigan narsalar, yani Austrialianing bu xarakati demokratik qonunlarga togri kelmaydi; Demokratik davlatda irqi dini va kelib chiqishidan qatiy nazar - xar bir inson yashash va dinida qolish huquqiga ega!! Shunday ekan Austrialani Diskriminatsiada ayblasa boladi , ammo lekin biroq musilmonlar xam kopchilik hollarda chegaradan chiqishadi :( buni xam tan olish kerak !!!

To'g'ri, musulmonlar ozchilik bo'lgan yerlarda o'sha joylarning secular qonunlariga rioya qilishsin debsiz, yaxshi..

Lekin musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda nega endi ular boshiga majburiy secular qonunlar ijro etilishi kerak? Shu adolatdanmi, o'rtoq adolat homiylari? Modomiki nomusulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan davlatlar ichida secular qonunlariga rioya qilish adolatdan ekan, demokratik hol ekan, musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda islomiy qonun-qoidalar tashkil qilinishi terror yoki radikalizm hisoblanib, ular ustiga secular qonunlar ijro qilinishi adolat hisoblanishi insofdanmi?

[Shokirbek]

Shokir aka siz aytayotgan - narsalar DEMOKRATIK davlatga togri kelmaydigan narsalar, yani Austrialianing bu xarakati demokratik qonunlarga togri kelmaydi; Demokratik davlatda irqi dini va kelib chiqishidan qatiy nazar - xar bir inson yashash va dinida qolish huquqiga ega!! Shunday ekan Austrialani Diskriminatsiada ayblasa boladi , ammo lekin biroq musilmonlar xam kopchilik hollarda chegaradan chiqishadi :( buni xam tan olish kerak !!!

Prince, men buni inkor qilayotganim yo'q, terror qilganlarni oqlab bo'lmaydi.
Lekin masala yuqorida aytganimdek boshqa tomonda.

[ville]

To'g'ri, musulmonlar ozchilik bo'lgan yerlarda o'sha joylarning secular qonunlariga rioya qilishsin debsiz, yaxshi..

Lekin musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda nega endi ular boshiga majburiy secular qonunlar ijro etilishi kerak? Shu adolatdanmi, o'rtoq adolat homiylari? Modomiki nomusulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan davlatlar ichida secular qonunlariga rioya qilish adolatdan ekan, demokratik hol ekan, musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda islomiy qonun-qoidalar tashkil qilinishi terror yoki radikalizm hisoblanib, ular ustiga secular qonunlar ijro qilinishi adolat hisoblanishi insofdanmi?

Demokratiya degani "ko'pchilik nima desa, o'shani qilish" emas.
"Inson haqlari", degan narsa ham bor. Agar ko'pchilikning qarori inson haqlari buzilishiga olib kelsa, bu jamiyat inqirozga yuz tutadi, qoloqlashadi. Deylik aholining katta qismi shariat/inkviziciya/kannibalizm uchun ovoz berdi. Lekin shariat/inkviziciya/kannibalizm inson haq-huqulari saqlanishiga o'ta keskin ravishda qarshidir.
Biz Ovro'pa yo'lidan ketishimiz, barcha qonunlarni "istagan ishingni qil, birovga zarari tegmasin", degan asosda loyihalashimiz kerak.
Austrialianing bu xarakati demokratik qonunlarga togri kelmaydi; Demokratik davlatda irqi dini va kelib chiqishidan qatiy nazar - xar bir inson yashash va dinida qolish huquqiga ega!!
Avstraliya hukumati uyida tinch o'tirib namozini o'qiyotgan, hech kimga shariat-pariatini, aqidalarini tiqishtirmoqchi bo'lmayotgan musulmonlarni quvib chiqarayotgani yo'q. Bu yerda qonun doirasidan chiqilmayapti.

[StU]

i pravilno delayut. Po principu: jivete v Rime - postupayte kak Rimlyane!

[Maroon]

Of course they are doing the correct thing. When people go to Arabic countries like Saudi Arabia they don't try to imply their laws or views on to them. You are asked to wear the veil when you arrive in SA or in Iran and foreign women do it.

Esli ne nravitsya pust uezjaut...AHA...ne hotyat konechno....dengi i horoshaya jizn to ne doma a tam.

Hypocrites!!!!!!!!!

[Maroon]

Che vi zdes vorchite?! Nikto im ne zapreshaet bit musilmaninom , a govoryat chto SHARIA eto ne ih zakon i pust edut gde ono est. Che tut ne poynatnogo!

Boje ti moy, srazu je nachinaete s svoimi "vot i esho nazivaut sebya demokratiye." Kak govoryat, MOY DOM, MOI PRAVILA. Spasibo skaji chto v gosti pozvali. :rolleyes:

[referee]

На русском есть пословица "в чужую избу со своим уставом не ходят". Тем кто хочет устроить себе свои законы, нужно обратно на Родину, где ети законы действуют.

That's right. But it's also correct that those Muslims are in their own home, Australia, and they have an equal right to see their home, Australia, develop as they wish. If socialists want to see Australia to turn socialist, anarchists want to see the end of Australian state, republicans want an end to Queen being head of state etc, then it's an Australian way. But if a Muslim thinks Islamic rules would be better for him in Australia, then let's pack him and send him elsewhere. Or must he be Christian, white Aussie for him to qualify for a right to decide how he'd like to see Australia to develop??

[referee]

i pravilno delayut. Po principu: jivete v Rime - postupayte kak Rimlyane!

here's some brief info on this idiom:

When in Rome, do as the Romans do means that when you are visiting a new place, you should try to do as the people do who are from the place. Example: "I can't eat that." Reply: "Oh, give it a try. When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

People from different places have different ways of acting, so it is important to try to do things the way people do who are from the place that you are visiting. Example: "Are you sure we can eat this with our hands?" Reply: "Why not? All of these people are. When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

The city of Rome was the capitol of the great Roman Empire. There were many strange and interesting things to do when visiting ("in") Rome. Example: "Back home, we never sing in front of other people." Reply: "Oh, come on. Give it a try! When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

source: http://www.goenglish.com/WhenInRomeDoAsTheRomansDo.asp

As one can see this idiom is normally used in a different context, i.e. visitors trying and testing local culture. It can hardly apply for "Romans in Rome", as Muslim Australians are Australians, not tourists from a boat checking out beaches there...

[referee]

Of course they are doing the correct thing. When people go to Arabic countries like Saudi Arabia they don't try to imply their laws or views on to them.

You are right here, but if Saudi police arrest and imprison gay Saudi, for example, then you'd hear condemnations from EU leaders etc on breaches of human rights. Following this logic, and your prescription, I don't hear or read condemnation from EU leaders or American human right defenders on discrimination of Muslim citizens of Australia:shock:

Esli ne nravitsya pust uezjaut...AHA...ne hotyat konechno....dengi i horoshaya jizn to ne doma a tam.

It's strange to hear such views from a democratic/libertarian corner;) I thought a true democrat would protect everyone's right regardless if she agrees or disagrees with them, or no? Jokes aside, but if one to follow this line, then Russians could safely do the same to Tatar citizens in Russia, or in fact, Uzbeks could be excused to deport Christian citizens because they disagree that the majority of Uzbeks are Muslims etc. Would it not lead to cross-country genocides, and would it not be a democrat's true calling to prevent one injustice and human right abuse at least out of self-interest so that it does not spread widely and does not affect in future those who did not care in the beginning?
Just a thought;)

[Shokirbek]

Che vi zdes vorchite?! Nikto im ne zapreshaet bit musilmaninom , a govoryat chto SHARIA eto ne ih zakon i pust edut gde ono est. Che tut ne poynatnogo!

Boje ti moy, srazu je nachinaete s svoimi "vot i esho nazivaut sebya demokratiye." Kak govoryat, MOY DOM, MOI PRAVILA. Spasibo skaji chto v gosti pozvali. :rolleyes:

Odob bilan gapirsangiz yaxshi bo'lardi (agar bu xitob menga qaratilgan bo'lsa)..
Men ularni musulmon bo'lishdan qaytaryapti dedimmi? :rolleyes:
Musulmonning ham o'zlari ko'pchilik bo'lgan yerlarida o'z ixtiyorlari bilan, dinlari buyurgandek yashashga huquqi bor dedim. Ha, shuni ham ayta olmaylikmi?

[Maroon]

Odob bilan gapirsangiz yaxshi bo'lardi (agar bu xitob menga qaratilgan bo'lsa)..
Men ularni musulmon bo'lishdan qaytaryapti dedimmi? :rolleyes:
Musulmonning ham o'zlari ko'pchilik bo'lgan yerlarida o'z ixtiyorlari bilan, dinlari buyurgandek yashashga huquqi bor dedim. Ha, shuni ham ayta olmaylikmi?



Eto bil otvet na article toje i ne konrektno vam. ;)

[Maroon]

You are right here, but if Saudi police arrest and imprison gay Saudi, for example, then you'd hear condemnations from EU leaders etc on breaches of human rights. Following this logic, and your prescription, I don't hear or read condemnation from EU leaders or American human right defenders on discrimination of Muslim citizens of Australia:shock:



It's strange to hear such views from a democratic/libertarian corner;) I thought a true democrat would protect everyone's right regardless if she agrees or disagrees with them, or no? Jokes aside, but if one to follow this line, then Russians could safely do the same to Tatar citizens in Russia, or in fact, Uzbeks could be excused to deport Christian citizens because they disagree that the majority of Uzbeks are Muslims etc. Would it not lead to cross-country genocides, and would it not be a democrat's true calling to prevent one injustice and human right abuse at least out of self-interest so that it does not spread widely and does not affect in future those who did not care in the beginning?
Just a thought;)


Hi there. :lol: I am a great democrat/liberal FYI. WE usually want the state separate from religion. :) So the Sharia, is out of question.

My point is that, when you decide to live in a western country you ought to follow their laws, no one is saying that they should not be Muslims, right? It is one being a religious person but another to live by the Sharia in a country where it is not accepted. There are a lot of laws in the Sharia which are against the laws of countries such as Australia.

There were many cases where for example girls were killed by a member of their family because their lost their virginity before marriage or had a western style of living. Happened quite a few times in Turkish families in Germany and they used their religion as an excuse.

You have the right to follow your religion but I do not believe that once you choose to live in a Western society that using the Sharia law in your life is not right.

Are you saying it is fine if a Muslim stones someone in the West because they broke the law of Sharia? I do not think it is.

Slightly off topic but I would like to say one thing.

IMO, no offense of course, Sharia is man-made. So is the Hadith. The only legitimate book I guess is the Quran and the rest is simply man-made. The only book I respect in Islam is the Quran, the rest sorry I do not think so. Even though Quran is used as reference, it is still stays man-made. I am not saying what is written there is wrong, but I do not believe it is the ultimate truth either. Do not stone me, that is my opinion. :lol:

Same goes for the Bible. New testament is Man-made and exploited. God knows what the true teachings are of Jesus Christ.

GL

P.S Like when I go the UAE, i try to respect their laws and do not walk in explicit clothes or get drunk, go to the mall and jump around. Walk around topless on the beach. Even though I do not agree with some of their laws, I do not do it. Was an example, do not think I would do that. :lool: Point is, I respect their culture and law and if I live there I will do it too. One thing what you do at home but another when it contradicts the countries laws.

[UzLand]

Власти Австралии предложили мусульманам покинуть страну

А если нет, то заставим что ли?

[Han]

"Bir qumaloq..." degan statustagi maxluqlar hamma xalq va millat va din mansublari orasida bo'ladi...

Musulmonlarni hammasini o'sha qumaloq kategoriyasiga solib
Vse musulmane ubirayetes' degan ma'noda umumylashtirishga qarshiman... va bunga demokratiyani niqob qilishlariga qarshiman...
nahotki shuni tushunish qiyin bo'lsa????

shuningdek bitta minora ko'tarilgan joyni ko'rib qolib darrov og'zi bilan "xalifalik" qurib yuboradigan tentak "musulmon"larga ham qarshiman...

zotan musulmonlarning boshiga qanday kulfat, qanday siyosiy yoxud jismoniy tazyiq, ofat, ozor yetsa ko'p hollarda o'sha "qora qumaloq" kategoriyasidagi "islomchilardan" kelmoqda...

buni ham musulmon sifatida tan olishimiz va o'shandaqa besiyosat, betadbir, befarosat kimsalarning "Allohu akbar" nar'alariga uchmaslik kerak...

ularga qarshi qilinayotgan nasihat, tanqidlarni ham darrov shariatga hujum deb tushunmaslik kerak...

lekin bu yerda Avstriyalik rahbarlarning ifodasi ochiqcha Islom va mansublariga dushmanlikdir!!!

to'g'ri ulardan haqiqiy musulmonlar bilan fitnachi "musulmonchalishlarning" farqiga borib diqqatli ifodalar tanlashini kuta olmaymiz...
lekin bir ikkta tentakni deb umuman islomga hujum qildirib qo'yish ham oqillikmasdir....

ozgina diqqatli bo'laylik iltimos... bu yerda bir ikkita vaqtinchalik ateistdan boshqa hammamiz musulmonmizku...
******
******
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mayli endi azgina hazil aralash matnni o'zbekiston sharoitiga moslaylik-chi qani :D

Bizdan ham bittasi chiqib desaki:

"Иммигранты и не узбеки должны приспособиться. Принимайте или убирайтесь. Мне надоело, что наша страна должна постоянно волноваться по поводу того, не обижаем ли мы каких-то людей или их культуру",

"Мы говорим в основном по узбекски, а не на русском, английском, китайском, таджикском или любом другом языке. Поэтому, если вы хотите стать частью нашего общества, учите наш язык!

sifati nima bo'lardi ajabo? :)

[Fifi]

Payg'ambarimiz s.a.v buyurganlariday qilish shart, ya'ni chiroyli qilib o'sha yerni tark qilish kerak.

[anatoliydaev]

Bizdan ham bittasi chiqib desaki:


Quote:
"Иммигранты и не узбеки должны приспособиться. Принимайте или убирайтесь. Мне надоело, что наша страна должна постоянно волноваться по поводу того, не обижаем ли мы каких-то людей или их культуру",

"Мы говорим в основном по узбекски, а не на русском, английском, китайском, таджикском или любом другом языке. Поэтому, если вы хотите стать частью нашего общества, учите наш язык!

sifati nima bo'lardi ajabo?
Такое в Узбекистане уже проходили в конце 80-х начале 90-х. Хорошего из этого ничего не получилось. Причем, замечу, что все способные правильно среагировали и уехали.

[Huzur]

dunyo mo'minning do'zaxi bo'p boryapti kun sayin. U yoqdan hayda bu yoqdan hayda.
afsus

[Black]

To'g'ri, musulmonlar ozchilik bo'lgan yerlarda o'sha joylarning secular qonunlariga rioya qilishsin debsiz, yaxshi..

Lekin musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda nega endi ular boshiga majburiy secular qonunlar ijro etilishi kerak? Shu adolatdanmi, o'rtoq adolat homiylari? Modomiki nomusulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan davlatlar ichida secular qonunlariga rioya qilish adolatdan ekan, demokratik hol ekan, musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda islomiy qonun-qoidalar tashkil qilinishi terror yoki radikalizm hisoblanib, ular ustiga secular qonunlar ijro qilinishi adolat hisoblanishi insofdanmi?

Shokirbek aka, bu narsa "double standards" deyiladi, ya'ni ikki yuzlamachilik. Ya'ni demokratlarda bitta qonun bor "sen hohlagan rangdagi avtomobilni sotib olishing mumkin, faqat u qora rangda bo'lishi shart". Men bu narsa o'z hayotimda, va ayniqsa ushbu forumda ko'p marta guvohi bo'lganman. "Black, sen hohlaganingcha fikrlash huquqiga egasan, Lekin sening fikrlaring biznikiga to'g'ri kelmasa sen terroristsan/radidical/wahhobiysan".

Shuni aniq aytishim mumkinki, hozir shu yerda "Ura, Ura, biz yutdik" deb chapak chalayotganlarning ko'pchiligi, yoki hammasi, umuman Shariat nimaligi, yoki Shariat bo'yicha yashash nimaligini bilishmaydi. Vaholanki o'z bilmagan narsalarni muhokama qilib yotishibdi.

Afsuski O'zbek "intellegentsiya"sining darajasi shunchalik "yuqori"ki, o'zi bahslashayotgan narsani umuman tushunmaydi, va eng qizig'i, bahslashish uchun bahslashayotgan mavzuda bilimga ega bo'lish shart emas deb hisoblashadi.

[VatanparvaR]

To'g'ri, musulmonlar ozchilik bo'lgan yerlarda o'sha joylarning secular qonunlariga rioya qilishsin debsiz, yaxshi..

Lekin musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda nega endi ular boshiga majburiy secular qonunlar ijro etilishi kerak? Shu adolatdanmi, o'rtoq adolat homiylari? Modomiki nomusulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan davlatlar ichida secular qonunlariga rioya qilish adolatdan ekan, demokratik hol ekan, musulmonlar ko'pchilikni tashkil qiladigan yerlarda islomiy qonun-qoidalar tashkil qilinishi terror yoki radikalizm hisoblanib, ular ustiga secular qonunlar ijro qilinishi adolat hisoblanishi insofdanmi?

Shokirbek, fikringizni ochiqroq yozasizmi, iltimos...

Va yana bir narsani e'tiborga oling. Hamma musulmonlar sizdek fikrlamaydi, Shokirbek. Mana 30 sekund oldin yuz bergan voqea. O'zi aslida post yozmoqchi emasdim. Shuning gapi undadi. Sizning manashu postingizni o'qib o'tirgan paytimda, bir "xaqiqiy" musulmon yonimga kelib, sen musulmonsan, manashu yozlgan narsani tushunishing shart deb sizning signature da yozilgan narsani ko'rsatdi. Uzr, lekin kim aytdi men tushunish shart buni deb so'rsam, yana shu javob, sen musulmonsan sen tushunishing shart shuni ! :rolleyes:

Shu gap to'g'rimi sizningcha? Shu odamning qilig'i to'grimi?
Albatta men javob berdim. Buni men arabchada emas, o'zimni tilimda tushunishim etarli deb. Lekin uni bu javob qoniqtrmaydi. Nega?

Hey inson, menga unaqa tomdan tarasha tushgandek gap qilma, men ko'tara olmayman ahir buni. Men buyoqda shuncha yoshimni boshqacha sharoitda yashab qo'ydim. Menga bunaqa aql o'rgatma ahir. Men buni mening shasiy xayotimga burnini tiqish, chaxlimni chiqarib tinchligimni buzish deb tushunaman. Albatta jaxlim chiqdi. Endi shu ishi to'g'rimi?

Vaaz o'qib boshni qotirishlaru, meni pivo ichganimni ko'rib gaplashmay qo'yishlarni xali aytmayapman. Yosh bolaga o'hshatib muomala qilishlarini aytmayapaman. Sen nomoz o'qishing kerak, ro'za tutishing kerak, yur biz bilan, masjidga borasan, kerak kerak kerak va xakozo. Bir kun, ikkin, bir marta ikki marta bo'sa chidasa bo'ladi. Ha endi, xar kun xar ko'rganda shu axvol qaytarilavergandan keyin nima bo'ladi? Yosh boladek muomala qilishgandan keyin nima bo'ladi?

Shaxsan man qo'rqadigan bo'lib qoldim shunaqa odamlardan. To'rtta "xaqiqiy" musulmonlar yig'ilgan joydan qochadigan bo'lib qoldim. Musulmonlar emas, "mazgi qotiruvchilar". Shularni ishi to'g'rimi? O'zi bir yahshi ish qilmaydimi, o'zining, musulmonlarning yahhshi tamonlarini o'zida ko'rsatmaydimi bizga o'hshagan "boshqacha" musulmonlar ularga xavas qilib ularning izidan ergashmaymiz?

Qilayotgan ishlarini ko'rsang, ko'pchiligi kulgili.
Naxot musulmonchilik, ro'za tutish va maschidga bo'rish bilan o'lchansa?
Heh, Hudo ko'nglingda bo'lmaydimi, o'tirib ishlamaysanmi odamni jaxlini chiqarish o'rniga. Tnchligini buzish o'rniga. Axir bu ham gunoh emasmi?

Ana ko'rdingizmi, xali man musulmon bo'la turib shuncha qo'rqaman ulardan. Boshqa dindagi odamlarni qo'ya turing.

Bilmadim, balkim sizning tashqi ko'rinishingizni ko'rib turib boshqacha muomalada bo'lishar, lekin biz bilan muomala manashunqa, Shokirbek...

[Mirzabek]

da takogo netu sho v Avstralii shariat ustaraivayut.
pochemu togra mecheti otkrili...Eto prosto provakatsiya protiv muslimov...
i eti slova ne oznachayet nichego. Oni prosto hotyat pokazat sho mi kotraliruyem i vi doljni ob etom znat.
Na samom dele eto vsyo fignya.
Esli vi prochitali statyu gramtno tam govoritsya sho boyatsya napadeniye terroristov, a to lyudi mogut ponyat sho religiyu islam svyazivayut s terrorizmom. Eto nastoyashaya provakatsiya.
Esli nado yego kritikovat to davayte zadadim emu vopros.
S kakih por religiya stala kulturoy...?

Prosto USA skazala shob Avstraliytsi doljni eto viskazat i vsyo.
Lyudi stolko let projili v spokoystve a teper oni boyatsya. Bred kakoyto/
Esli boyatsya bilo bi, to eti slova doljni bili vizkazatsya 5 let nazad ili kak minimum 4 goda nazad. Prosto ni v kakiye ramki ne lezet.
Esli delo doshlo do religiyi i osnovi religiy.
Vo pervih u nas net takogo shob kakoyto chelovek otpuskal grehi za dengi, eto ne logichno. Ved bog est i on sam znayet u kogo grehi proshat`.
Vo vtorih puskay oni(AVstraliya) buddistov i drugih chlenov drugih religiy kontraliruyut tak je kak i islam.Eto prava kajdigo kto jivyot v demokraticheskoy strane.
Eto moyo mneniye. Ved` u kajdoy religii est izuminka v kotorih chelovek sebya chuvstvuyet komfortno i ne nedo stavit tabu.
Premier ministr i svyashenik sami ne ponyali sho skazali.

Bush akahon bilan PAPA yomon katta kasha qilishvotti. Boshiga bir balo kemasa bo`ldi....

[Shokirbek]

Muhtaram VatanparvaR, mening signaturemda rasmi kelgan, "La ilaha illallohu Muhammadur Rosululloh", "Ollohdan o'zga ibodatga loyiq zot yo'q, Muhammad (s.a.v) u Zotning payg'ambari" degan kalimani har bir musulmon anglagan va bilgan holda aytishi kerak, ushbu arabcha so'zni talaffuz qilishi kerak, lekin tili kelmasa, o'zbekcha aytsa ham bo'laveradi. Eng muhimi o'sha shahodat, o'sha guvohlikning muqtazosi bo'lgan, shu guvohlik talab qiladigan zohiriy - tashqi besh ustunni qilishi farz bo'lib qoladi. Zotan, "La ilaha illalloh Muhammadur Rosululloh" Islomning kaliti, biroq har bir kalitning o'z tili, tishlari bor, o'sha aynan tili to'g'ri keladigan kalitni olib kelishimiz kerak.. Ushbu kalit tili, tishlari hisoblanmish narsalar - namoz o'qish, ramazonda ro'za tutish, moli nsobga yetgan bo'lsa zakot berish, umrida bir bor (qudrati yetsa) haj qilish hisoblanadi, bularsiz kishida "musulmon" degan da'vosiga dalil topilmay qoladi, zero qalbdagi iymon o'zgalarga ko'rinishi, tashqarida namoyon bo'lishi kerak.

Endi ahamiyatda yuqoridagilardan kam bo'lmagan, siz urg'u berib o'tgan bir farz bor. Bu ham bo'lsa - musulmon kishining muomalasidir. Payg'ambarimiz bejiz "Din - muomaladir" demaganlar. "Qiyomat kuni menga eng yaqin bo'ladiganlaring - eng oliy axloqlilaring" deganlar.
Shunday ekan, sizga "uni qil, buni qil" deb qo'rslik ila zug'um qilayotganlar qattiq yanglishadilar, ular kishilarni qanday da'vat qilish ruhini o'rganishlari lozim, o'zgalarni dinga chaqirishdan ilgari. Imom Hasan Basriy shogirdlariga: "Odamlarni Islomga o'z axloqlaring, yurish-turishlaring bilan da'vat qilinglar, so'zlaring bilan da'vat qilishdan burun" der edilar..
Bizning musulmonlar dunyosidagi musibatimiz ham - kishilarning ko'pchiligi o'zlarida Islomni mujassam qila olmaganliklarida..

Shuning uchun, ularning qo'polliklarini kechirarsiz, Islomni chuqur tushunib yetmaganliklari uchun shunday qilishayotgan bo'lsalar ajab emas.

[Joha]

Of course they are doing the correct thing. When people go to Arabic countries like Saudi Arabia they don't try to imply their laws or views on to them. You are asked to wear the veil when you arrive in SA or in Iran and foreign women do it.

Esli ne nravitsya pust uezjaut...AHA...ne hotyat konechno....dengi i horoshaya jizn to ne doma a tam.

Hypocrites!!!!!!!!!

HELLOOO ...

Forget about individuals, as some countries imposing their rules on other countries ... Afganistan ... Iraq ... etc

AND YES I AGREE. IT IS ENOUGH! MUSLIMS LIVING UNDER NON SHAREAH LAWS SHOULD STOP COMPLAINING! IS IT NOT TIME TO GET TOGETHER AND ESTABLISH A COUNTRY WITH ONE SYSTEM LIKE WE WANT?

[Royal]

Eeeeeebu judayam dinnimizni qattiq olganlikdan kelib chiqadi..

Din ozimizda, oilamizda bolishi kerak, kochadayamas...qayerda yashamaylik uyimiz ostonasidan otgandan keyin hamma narsa islomie bosa boldi...

kochada osha davlat qonunlariga oz holida rioya qilgan holda oz dini shart sharoitlariga togrilab yashasha boldi...

Bu mani fikrim...yana ustimda gisht qalavormeyla...

[Joha]

Eeeeeebu judayam dinnimizni qattiq olganlikdan kelib chiqadi..

Royal bu bilan Islomni har hil qabul qilib olsa bo'ladi demoqchimisiz? Agar hotiram pand bermayotgan bo'lsa Islom yo qabul qilinadi yo rad etiladi. Noto'gri firlagan bo'lsam bu jihatdan axboroti ko'plardan iltimos qilamiza oydinlik kirgizishsin bu masalaga.

[Maroon]

HELLOOO ...

Forget about individuals, as some countries imposing their rules on other countries ... Afganistan ... Iraq ... etc

AND YES I AGREE. IT IS ENOUGH! MUSLIMS LIVING UNDER NON SHAREAH LAWS SHOULD STOP COMPLAINING! IS IT NOT TIME TO GET TOGETHER AND ESTABLISH A COUNTRY WITH ONE SYSTEM LIKE WE WANT?

I think the same way. I think it is wrong of people going there KNOWING beforehand that their lifestyle and laws does not fit their way of life and their beliefs. So why the complain??

It is like if I ever thought of moving to Iran, I would think twice about it because their lifestyle does not fit mine and if I did go there for some reason (to work or whatever) I would obey and respect their laws and not whine about how awful it is and that my rights are being broken.

I mean stop whining, do something if you truly want to live by the Sharia.

[referee]

[QUOTE=Mrs.Reaper;604640]Hi there. :lol: I am a great democrat/liberal FYI. WE usually want the state separate from religion. :) So the Sharia, is out of question.


OK, as a democrat you are also against fascism or communism, right? So why then Australian democrats, and you included, don't advocate the deportation of fascists and communists?? But they are ever so quick in deporting Muslims, while trying to "convince" or "debate" with fascists, communists, anarchists or other non-democrats:shock: Would you know why?


My point is that, when you decide to live in a western country you ought to follow their laws, no one is saying that they should not be Muslims, right?


I agree Muslims should follow the laws of the land, and noone is objecting to it. But isn't it part of a domestic law of a western country to challenge country's establishment through peaceful means? So what's a big fuss, if some Muslims are advocating for Sharia system in their community in Australia in a peaceful manner? Or are Aussies are being unconfident in their "democracy" that they can't "debate" with those Muslims but have to deport them instead???

It is one being a religious person but another to live by the Sharia in a country where it is not accepted. There are a lot of laws in the Sharia which are against the laws of countries such as Australia.


Firstly, if you implement your religious duties and it does not clash with the laws of the land, it should be none of a white Aussi's business. If Muslim person's actions are in breach of local laws, then there are courts to deal with this situations. But the laws and courts should be universal, comprehensive and non-discriminatory of a particular group...

And secondly, would they deport a catholic person for pursuing his religion if it clashes with the "secular" nature of Aussi's democracy? There are a lot of issues in Catholicism that goes against secular laws as well.


There were many cases where for example girls were killed by a member of their family because their lost their virginity before marriage or had a western style of living. Happened quite a few times in Turkish families in Germany and they used their religion as an excuse.


And why to mention this? Is there any Muslim group or person who objected on the punishment given to those murderers? If you commit a murder, you get punished by the law. Were there big Muslim demonstrations against such punishment or complaints about discriminations in this regard? Where do you see a Muslim issue here, apart from the media spin and propaganda that tries to make these isolated cases as a group problem of Muslims in Germany? If some Germans got jailed for hannibalism, eating human beings, should Aussis be concerned about cannibalistic habits of Germanic people living in Australia and start filing deportations?


Are you saying it is fine if a Muslim stones someone in the West because they broke the law of Sharia? I do not think it is.


Who claimed that it's all right to break a law in that country? If stoning a person is a crime in Aus, then it's a crime for a Muslim too. But if wearing a hijab is not a crime, then it's perfectly fine for a Muslima to wear it. The growing problem is that host countries are now trying to create artificial laws specifically designed against Muslims, so that it applies only to Muslims. Then, in my view it's admissable to break such laws, the same way that Ghandi broke racist British laws in India...

[Royal]

Royal bu bilan Islomni har hil qabul qilib olsa bo'ladi demoqchimisiz? Agar hotiram pand bermayotgan bo'lsa Islom yo qabul qilinadi yo rad etiladi. Noto'gri fiKrlagan bo'lsam bu jihatdan axboroti ko'plardan iltimos qilamiza oydinlik kirgizishsin bu masalaga.

Joha

ancha bogandi oqiganimga agardaki hadislardan mandan koproq biladiganla bolsa etsinlar, chunki hozir oldimda yoq Hadis-i-Sharif.

"Dininga uyingda qattiq tur, kochadigi hayotga aralashtirma. Davlat oz yolida Ikkalaviniyam hurmat qilinadi osha yashayotgan joyda:
Din oz yolida - Davlat qonunlari kochada, lekin uyda oz holincha, yani ozzilagayu va birowga zarar tegmiydigan holda yashash kerak" degandayidi....

Bu sozlarni togri holda tushunish kerak....Davlatdan soralmiydiki , bizni dinimiz boyicha bundogiydi shuni uchun ozgartirip beriyla manbini dip, huddi shundoqgam soralgandi: Roza va kotta-kichik Hayit kunlari togrisida, lekin ular
etiroz bildirishgan :

-Birinchi ozila kelishvolila bir kun togrisida keyin biza silaga kelishtirip beriylik!!!

dip..

Man nuqtai nazardan olip ettim tepadigi postimda...

Hech bir davlat qonunlari Shariat qonunlari bilan ortada toqnashadigan joylari bomasa kerak ?
Bosayam agarda qanchalik bolishi mumkin ?

[real_life]

ancha bogandi oqiganimga agardaki hadislardan mandan koproq biladiganla bolsa etsinlar, chunki hozir oldimda yoq Hadis-i-Sharif.

"Dininga uyingda qattiq tur, kochadigi hayotga aralashtirma. Davlat oz yolida Ikkalaviniyam hurmat qilinadi osha yashayotgan joyda:
Din oz yolida - Davlat qonunlari kochada, lekin uyda oz holincha, yani ozzilagayu va birowga zarar tegmiydigan holda yashash kerak" degandayidi....


Royal, bu "hadis"ni kaerda okigansiz? Bunday hadis umuman bolmasa fikringizni ozgartirasizmi? bunday gap hadis tugul bugungi kungacha faqat din dushmanlari tomonidan qollanib kelingan bahonadan ozga narsa emas. wallohu a'lam

[NeUzbek]

Молодцы Автралийцы: КОРОТКО И Ясно

[Abu Hurayra]

Власти Австралии предложили мусульманам покинуть странуbla bla bla
Royal why did you decide to bring here those false, misleading "news" without checking the authency of the sources???
Another interesting fact is that some speeches from this eRumor was based on the almost 2 year old speech?.
If you had behaved as it was stated in Qura'n chapter Hujurat 6th verse in which it is adressed to Mu'mins:Astaidhubillah:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنْ جَاءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌ بِنَبَإٍ فَتَبَيَّنُوا أَنْ تُصِيبُوا قَوْمًا بِجَهَالَةٍ فَتُصْبِحُوا عَلَى مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَادِمِينَ
049.006 O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
This is nothing else eRumor.
The eRumor appears to be an article that quotes the Australian Finance Minister as saying that immigrants who want to live in Australia need to live by Australian law, not the Sharia law of Islam. He is quoted as saying that Muslims to want to live by Sharia law are not welcome in Australia.

The Truth:
The article quoted in the eRumor was written by Phil Mercer of the BBC and published in February, 2006. The remarks by the Australian Finance Minister Peter Costello were made in a speech on February 23, 2006 to the Sydney Institute. His speech was titled Worth Promoting, Worth Defending, Australian Citizenship, What it Means and How to Nurture it. In his speech he extolled the virtues of Australia and the necessity of adhering to Australian law. Then he added, "“But don't you think Australian Muslims – Muslims living in Australia – also have a responsibility to adhere to Australian law?” He went on to say "There is one law we are all expected to abide by. It is the law enacted by the Parliament under the Australian Constitution. If you can't accept that then you don't accept the fundamentals of what Australia is and what it stands for." He suggested that if someone wanted to live under Sharia law [law derived from the Koran], Saudia Arabia and Iran should be considered. Then he added, "Before becoming an Australian you will be asked to subscribe to certain values. If you have strong objections to those values don't come to Australia.
A real example of the eRumor as it has appeared on the Internet:

A senior member of Australia's government has said
Muslims who want to live by Islamic Sharia law are not
welcome in the country. The comments have stoked
Muslim anger against the Australian government.
Australian Finance Minister Peter Costello said in a
speech late Thursday that immigrants must respect the
country's laws and traditions. Costello singled out
Muslims who wanted to live under Sharia law as not
welcome in Australia.

In his speech on Australian citizenship, the minister
said his remarks were directed at what he called a
"small radical minority." "You don't have to swear at
the football and eat a pie to be an Australian," he
said, "but you do have believe in democracy, the rule
of law and the rights and liberties of others."

Earlier this week Prime Minister John Howard also
addressed Islamic extremism, saying it violated
Australia's principles. He pointed to contentious
issues such as relations with non-Muslims and the
rights of women.

Australian Muslims have reacted with anger to both
sets of comments. They accuse the government of being
deliberately inflammatory and divisive.

Keysar Trad, president of the Islamic Friendship
Association of Australia, says Costello's comments are
unnecessary. "He is singling out the Muslim community
again," he said. "Rather than calling on all citizens
to respect the law of the land and respect traditional
values, he is making an inference in his comments that
Muslims don't do that. Well, on the contrary, Muslims
do respect the law of the land and do respect the
values of this country."

There are around 300,000 Muslims in Australia.

Community leaders say racism toward this minority
group has increased since the terrorist attacks in the
United States in September 2001 and the bombings on
the Indonesian island of Bali a year later, in which
Australian tourists were targeted.


PS: The Russian text above is also eRumor, that is full of lies. We hope that the guy who quoted it did not know about it...

respectfully Mazlum

[Royal]

Royal, bu "hadis"ni kaerda okigansiz? Bunday hadis umuman bolmasa fikringizni ozgartirasizmi? bunday gap hadis tugul bugungi kungacha faqat din dushmanlari tomonidan qollanib kelingan bahonadan ozga narsa emas. wallohu a'lam

man bir shu kitobni topb keyin etishim mumkin, sahihmi yoki yoq...

Mazlum

Why You blaming me ?

[Abu Hurayra]

man bir shu kitobni topb keyin etishim mumkin, sahihmi yoki yoq...

:salam:
Royal,
Bunaqa hadis yo'q. Chunki hadis deb aytgan gapiz Islomiy ta'limotga qarshi.
Vaholangki Qur'oni Karimda ham Sahih hadislarda hujjatlar ko'p. Vaqtingiz bo'lganda manabu oyatlarning tafsirini topib o'rganib tadbiq qilishga harakat qiling: Oli Imron- 110, Tavba 67, 71,112; Nahl 36. Haj 40-41, Niso 114; bu haqda yana ko'p joylarda kelgan....



Mazlum

Why You blaming me ?
Chunki xabarni tekshirmay iqtibos qilibsiz, Bu xabar yolg'on yashiqdan to'lgan. Bu gap Londondagi Musulmonlarni nomidan qilingan qo'poruvchilik voqealaridan so'ng, Avstraliyaning lavozimliroq kishilari 2005 iyul, 2006 fevral oylarida aytgan 1-2 gapini olib u gapni rosa yasantirib, ko'pirtirib. bo'rtirib qilingan safsata. Ingliz tilini yahshi bilsangiz, yuqorida Inglizcha yozilgan postimni yana bir bor o'qing.


Allohga omonat bo'ling....

:salam:

[Royal]

Mazlum

qayerdadir yana boshqa bir kitobda oqiganim boriydi, mana bunga qoshimcha tushuntirish boriydi ancha kengroq qilip tushuntirilgandi:

005.058.245 - Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar) - - - -
...

So Abu Bakr returned and Ibn Ad-Daghina accompanied him. In the evening Ibn Ad-Daghina visited the nobles of Quraish and said to them."A man like Abu Bakr should not leave his homeland, nor should he be driven out. Do you (i.e. Quraish) drive out a man who helps the destitute, earns their living, keeps good relations with his Kith and kin, helps the weak and poor, entertains guests generously and helps the calamity-stricken persons?" So the people of Quraish could not refuse Ibn Ad-Daghina's protection, and they said to Ibn Ad-Daghina, "Let Abu Bakr worship his Lord in his house. He can pray and recite there whatever he likes, but he should not hurt us with it, and shouldnot do it publicly, because we are afraid that he may affect our womenand children." Ibn Ad-Daghina told Abu Bakr of all that. Abu Bakr stayed in that state, worshipping his Lord in his house. He did not pray publicly, nor did he recite Quran outside his house.
http://www.islamicity.com/hadith/action.lasso.asp?-db=Services&-lay=Hadith&-op=cn&-find=hadith_textS&-format=sreply.htm&-Error=error.htm&-Max=20&-SortField=Hadith_Nbr&-SortOrder=Descending&-op=cn&hadith_textS=non+muslim+country

Agar topolsam qoyarman...

[Shokirbek]

Joha

ancha bogandi oqiganimga agardaki hadislardan mandan koproq biladiganla bolsa etsinlar, chunki hozir oldimda yoq Hadis-i-Sharif.

"Dininga uyingda qattiq tur, kochadigi hayotga aralashtirma. Davlat oz yolida Ikkalaviniyam hurmat qilinadi osha yashayotgan joyda:
Din oz yolida - Davlat qonunlari kochada, lekin uyda oz holincha, yani ozzilagayu va birowga zarar tegmiydigan holda yashash kerak" degandayidi....



Yigitlar to'g'ri aytishipti, bunday hadis umuman yo'q, kim aytgan bo'lsa ham islom ta'limotiga zid gapiripti.

Siz keltirgan hazrat Abu Bakrning holatlari esa musulmonlarni mushriklar ezayotgan bir vaqtda noilojlikdan bo'lgan muaqqat chora bo'lib, sahobalar qaysilarini tanlashda ixtiyorli edilar. Qiyinchilik, musulmonlar ustiga kelgan azob qattiq bo'lganidan ularga ko'proq murosa uslubi maslahat qilib berilgan bo'lsada, ba'zi sahobalar (hazrat Abu Zarr kabi): "kaltak yesamda, azoblansamda, dinimni yashirib yurmayman, e'lon qilaman" deb Ka'batulloh yoniga borib, bor ovozda "La ilaha illalloh" deganliklari uchun o'lar holga yetkazilib kaltaklanganliklari Sahihi Muslimda rivoyat qilinadi.
Bularning barchasi Islomdagi hali ko'pgina ahkomlar nozil bo'lmay turib bo'lib o'tgan muaqqat, mavsumiy bir chora edi.
Hozirgi paytda ham o'sha yuqoridagi hazrat Abu Bakrning voqealariga o'xshash holatlar, sharoitlar bo'lib qolsa, o'sha holat ko'tarilgunga qadar muaqqat chora sifatida amal qilinishi mumkin.

Lekin bundan zinhor yuqoridagi xulosa - ibodatingni o'z uyingda qil, diningni davlatga aralashtirma - kelib chiqmaydi.

[Huzur]

to'gri yo'ldagi musulmon davlat qonunlariga qarshi jinoyatga, Alloh qonunlariga qarshi gunohga qo'l urmaydi..

shunda bu dunyoda ham oyoqosti qilib ho'rlanmaydi u dunyoda ham.
bir ikkita tentak "siyosatshunos" chalamullaning "faoliyati" aksar hollarda shunaqa musulmonlarni oxirgi sort grajdaninga aylantiradi.

bizda anu hizbchilar qaysi ko'chadan o'tsa o'sha ko'chada islom tag'iboti ta'qiqlanib, missioner targ'ibotiga keng yo'l ochib berilardi. haliyam shunday.

so'ziga emas ishiga qaraladigan bo'lsa, vatikanga katta hizmat ko'rsatishyapti.

[real_life]

Haqiqiy muslim har qanday holatda ham Alloh va Rosuli sallallahu alayhi wasallam qonunlarini oliy qilib unga rioya qiluvchi va bu qonunlarni har qanda dunyo qonunlaridan ustun qoymaydigan musilmdir, "yuqori"ning ta'na malomatlaridan qorqib dinini va dindoshlarini sotganlarga Alloh oziga yarasha jazo bersin. O'z dindoshlariga qalqon bolishni orniga ularni goshtini yeb dashnom toshi otayotganlarga Alloh insof bersin. Mazlum va mujohidlarga nusrat bersin

[ElNemo]

Интересно, а эти мигранты-Муслимы вообще говорили, что они хотят жить по нормам шариата?! Если да, то браво - столько смелости.

А если такое говорилось со стороны Муслимов-граждан Австралии, то какие проблемы? Моя страна, здесь демократия, имею право, а поскольку это демократическое ( :puke: ) общество, пусть меня "затушат" проголосовав "нет" и все.

Зачем кипятиться и указывать на дверь? Раз гонят, значит понимают - растет влияние мусульман на местное "туземное" общество. Нет, не на папусов, а на Оззи :rofl:

А вообще, прав Джоха - пора строить свой халифат, где и еврею и христианину можно будет жить в мире и спокойствии. Евреи могут спокойно читать Тору в синагогах и есть кошер; христианам будет дозволено практиковать свою версию религии (ох, столько разновидностей...) и строить церква. Никто никого не будет никуда гнать.

Ну, конечно, при условии безусловного подчинения законам страны-халифата... Но я уверен, что это будет случаем "вопиющиго нарушения прав человека" ;) в то время, верней вот прамов эти дни, аналогичное действие австралийских властей есть ничто иное, как сохранение вековых традиций демократии и свободы самовыражения...

Слушайте, Вы не устали от всей этой лжи демократов?.. Мне приелось...

[Royal]

Johillik qilmanglar deyilmaganmidi...