future is ours

[www]

I agree with most of guys who said that situation in our countrey is desparete. And there were some suggestions regarding what goverment should do to improve it. I am not a bussines or a political science major but still some of those ideas seem to be too naive, especially those ones that are aimed to end corruption and move to more freedom. It is hard to change the mentalitet of people right away, it takes generations. There were also forecasts from some people here that it will be this way for very long time it takes generations. One thing we should not forget is our land our people(It doesnt matter how bad it is I would not exchange it to 10 USAs). The people who rule our country now will be gone in 10-20yrs and we will take the wheel into our hands. We will have to implement political and economical changes. people will look up for us. We might not see Uzbekistan becoming one of the leading countries during our life time. But still we should give people hope and right directions. We should show them that anything is possible with common effort. Another generation will take it from there. There are some people who dont see any future for themselves in present Uzbekistan, I dont blame them they are looking at things in a pessimistic(may be realistic) way. Yes, it is hard to make changes alone. I remember somebody suggested making a political party of Umid, in order to create noticable influence, and i think it is a great idea. Some might argue that parties have no force and influence, and that might be true. But I think this idea worth a try. Start with small things, once we get our jobs in Uzb, we should show our punctuality, honesty, hard work, our devotion for future of our country and western way of working. Yes, people might not like it or dont care. But if we set up an example to them, some will notice and might follow, some will be ashemed of themselves and join the club.
Second, we should create our own newspaper discussing political, economical and social life in Uzb.(well add TV programm and classifieds to boost up the sales). This Newspaper should be completely different than most of current Uzb papers, we should not be scared to criticize anybody for not oing their job properly. I am sure if every issue will have signitures of all Umidies nobody will put all of us into jail. Third we should organize camps for high school students and teach them western way of leadership and doing business. We also should encourage Uzbek universities to have strong ties with the Universities of our neighbours to bring youth of our nations in closer ties. So may be in one great day we will succeed in creating something like EU but much better. There are a lot of small things that we can start doing upon our return to our motherland.

So if that idea of creating Umid party, union or club is still in the air lets not delay it and try to form it while we here. Thanks for your time...

[Overloaded]

Good points.

They are enough to make UDP be banned.

[Faqir]

www (Jul 11, 2001 04:18):
We also should encourage Uzbek universities to have strong ties with the Universities of our neighbours to bring youth of our nations in closer ties. So may be in one great day we will succeed in creating something like EU but much better


This is the best point !!!

[Reader]

Yes, only if www will be alone. But if there will be millions (I am optimist!) like him everything is possible. Japan after war was completely destroyed but now people live there not bad at all. I do not think that with such a hardworking people like Uzbeks it will take long time to make our country good place to live. When people have real believes they can turn mountains.

[Faqir]

I tell you this:

It is much more important to make people want what is good than showing them what is bad, they see it every day; and then to make them demand those good things. Surely, this will be the time of great changes...

[rave]

www,
u have good points but u are not realistic,
yes i agree that after 0-20 years present people leave but what about other uzbekistan's young generation who haven't left uzb and haven't expericenced what u have here in us or uk, see they still belive that corruption and bureacracy is the WAY to run the county, about about them. U over exeggarate UMidies power my friend.

[Faqir]

Power is in unity...

Do umidies have a power?

[www]

Yes, Rave. May be I am overestimating our potential, but somebody have to start it from scratch. Things are not going to get better by themselves. As for young generation, it should not be that hard to change their mentality in positive direction. They grew up under USSR and independent Uzb(two different systems, and know more than youth of 1950-70). They dont have their belives shaped up like some of our stubburn Khokims, directors and other officials. but if we delay than it will be hard once they get used to this system. We have to come up with western, civilized way of running our country applicable to Uzbekistan.

As I told we are not going to be able to change everything but we will start and try.

So, as it was suggested earlier by someone lets unite and do good for our country...

Political Science and bussines students, please try to take an initiative into your hands, since you guys know more about this subject. Lets create model of development for next 15-25 years, discuss it thoroughly. Upon our return to Uzb support each other and try to get this model into work, and again lets start with small and reasonable things. Thanks

[Nasl]

www (Jul 11, 2001 20:50):
Lets create model of development for next 15-25 years, discuss it thoroughly. Upon our return to Uzb support each other and try to get this model into work...


A wonderful point !!! I support your way of thinking.

[Overloaded]

Good point indeed!

Let's try to discuss it in a right way:

First of all, we should do it in intelligent manner: no offence, no attempts to show how smart you are. Stick to the point, and step by step discussion.


Second, we can divide it into sub sections. For example:

-investment
-taxes
-land as a private and governmental property
-agriculture
-manufacturing
-import/export
-mineral resources
-education

………. Should be some more


We can discuss it in general first, operating by section above as "modules", that's without detailed discussion sections themselves. Then we can switch to each section and discuss it in detail.

3) After each discussion we should make some conclusion, even though we may not reach consensus: we need to mention different approaches and solutions.


Any ideas?

[Nasl]

Uzbekistan Incorporated'ni quramiz, shundaymi? :)
Model building??? Simulation-Model building'dan imtihon topshirganman-u ... qisqasi biroz habarimiz bor.

Mana bu web-saytlar bu masalaga to'g'ri yondashishda bizga yordam berishi kerak:

http://www.arubanationalparks.com/

va

http://www.worldbank.org/wbi/edimp/


Modelni, O'zbekistonning tarixiy rivojlanishi, hozirgi va kelajak ehtiyojlaridan kelib chiqqan holda, keyingi 15-25 yilga tuzishimiz mumkin. Shu o'rinda chiroyli bitta VISION PLAN ham bo'lishi kerak.

Yana muhim bo'lgan narsa, ilojini qilib, siyosatni aralashtirmay, modelni iqtisodiy, ijtimoiy va huquqiy masalalarga tayanib ishlab chiqsak.

Ammo oldin reja ishlab chiqilishi shart; ya'ni kirish qismi, O'zbekistoning tarixiy rivojlanishi va hkz., ya'ni shu yo'nalishda ketsa fikirlarimiz.

P.S. Fikr yoqmagan bo'lsa, so'kish shart emas, sekin bildirib qo'ysangiz tushunib olarmiz :) :):)

[Dragon]

Strange thing happens to me,

I am pretty confident about my own future, however, the more I think about UZ, the darker future emerges in front of my eyes.

Some of you said that in 10-20 years, UMIDies and other progressive youth would be able to make proper changes in UZ. Can you imagine what you will get in 10 years? Not just desperate economy without any investments (especially internal), but a land full of ecological, heatlh and political problem!

We keep saying Uz is the country with bright future - but who will make it bright? Yes, I agree UMID fund has been founded to educate future leaders for UZ. I just wonder what contribution the present UMID grads do for our country? If they have real authority to make changes? Personally, I don't think so.

The first 10 years are over: do you think these years were positive or negative, overall, of course?

Optimist with clear mind,

Dragon

[Dragon]

Sometimes (not often), I question myself why I haven't applied for UMID? Maybe I was not so confident in myself?

UMID might be a really powerful network of people who can ultimately obtain influential positions in politics and business.

I wish all UMIDies best luck,

Dragon

[sherzodr]

Dragon, you got my five stars!

UMID might be a really powerful network of people who can ultimately obtain influential positions in politics and businessI want this to happen too. That's why I think we need to form UDP, Umid Demokratik Partiyasi (we might pick another name, doesn't matter).

The sole purpose is to unite and form a real, influential power. Lots of people contributed to discussions on UDP in the Forums. And I think it's time to take action. NOW!

[hazratqul]

Your are in right way but:(Reply to Nasl)

Мана бу хато булади:

"Yana muhim bo'lgan narsa, ilojini qilib, siyosatni aralashtirmay, modelni iqtisodiy, ijtimoiy va huquqiy masalalarga tayanib ishlab chiqsak."
Партия тузишнинг узи Сиёсат, унинг фаоиляти Сиёсат. партиянинг Умуртка Погонаси сиёсий булади ХАМИША. Бу классик форм Helloo!

[hazratqul]

Умуман идеянинг ривожланиши яхши кетяпти, буш келманглар азаматлар. Сафларингизни кенгайтиринг, томда утирганлардан watch up
ва имкон борича мустакил булинглар!
Good Lucky! 8)

[Nasl]

Hazratqul (Jul 14, 2001 02:09):
Your are in right way but:(Reply to Nasl)

Мана бу хато булади:

"Yana muhim bo'lgan narsa, ilojini qilib, siyosatni aralashtirmay, modelni iqtisodiy, ijtimoiy va huquqiy masalalarga tayanib ishlab chiqsak."
Партия тузишнинг узи Сиёсат, унинг фаоиляти Сиёсат. партиянинг Умуртка Погонаси сиёсий булади ХАМИША. Бу классик форм Helloo!

Men siyosatning s-harfiga ham tushunmayman. Va shu o'rinda, UMID web-sahifalarida yozgan narsalaringizga qaraganda, siz ham siyosatdan bilimingiz past ekanligi ko'rinib turibdi. Heloo deb u bu narsani o'rgatayotganingizda, iltimos, biroz mavzuga qarab o'rgating. Sizdan hali hech kim bizga siyosatni o'rgating deb so'ragan yo'q, shunday emasmi? Kerak bo'lsa, universitetda, qo'shimcha fan sifatida bo'lsa ham, istasak siyosat saboqlarini bemalol olishimiz mumkin; va oldik ham (siyosoy philosophiya fani, baho, nemis sistemasi bo'yicha, 1,3). Faqat, sizdan farqli o'laroq, bizga siyosatdan dars bergan professor, masalan, bu sohada kitob nashr qilgan. Qisqasi, o'z sohasida komtetentsiyasi bor odam.

Mening siyosat bilan hech ham ishim yo'q, faqat iqtisodiy va ijtimoiy masalalarda, o'zimni biroz bo'lsada, bilimim bor deb bilaman. Agar, faqat siyosatdan boshqa gapirishga gap bo'lmasa, men sizlar bilan hayrlashib qo'ysam ham bo'ladi... .

[hazratqul]

Naslga javob

Мен сизга сиёсатдан дарс бермокчи эмасман. Факат хайрон колдим -сиёсатсиз партия тузмокчи булганингиздан. Уша профессорларингизни дарсини яна бир бор укиб чикинг. Ижтимоий ва иктисодий нарсаларни ислох килиш конун ишлаб чикариш йули билан яьни сиёсий йул билан хал булади -дейман холос.

[Nasl]

Hazratqul (Jul 14, 2001 06:55):
Факат хайрон колдим -сиёсатсиз партия тузмокчи булганингиздан.



Gapni tushunmaydigan odam ekansiz, siyosat mening ishim emas deb yozdim-ku tepada. Qachon partiya tuzaman degan ekanman, odamni jahlini chiqarishni bilar ekansiz lekin... . Boshingizdan qolsin, siyosatingiz ham partiyangiz ham, tushunarli bo'lsa kerak endi !



Hazratqul (Jul 14, 2001 06:55):
Уша профессорларингизни дарсини яна бир бор укиб чикинг.

Albatta o'qiyman, qayta-qayta, chunki professorga gap yo'q: Germaniyaning Institut fuer Weltwirtschaft (Kiel) dan etishib chiqqan odam. Ha aytgancha, professorim dars mobaynida bir so'zni ko'p ishlatar edi:

POPULIST ...

[Shurik]

Gospodin Hazratkul, vi' pravil'no dumaete, no vi' putaete Politiku s Ekonomicheskoy Politikoy. Nam nujno razrabotat' nashu "model'", t.e. sformulirovat' Ekonomicheskuyu Politiku (v Macroekonomicheskom masshtabe), no konechno je nikto ne budet nas vnimatel'no slushat', esli eto protivorechit ih interesam. Nastoyash'aya sistema ne pozvolaet nam predprinimat' kakie libo deystviya v obhod tovarish'am naverhu. A esli nado vse taki probit' put' dlya nashih idey, to tut-to i nujno vmeshatsya v "politiku"(ya dumayu, chto imenno eto imel v vidu G-n Hazratkul), no eto, kak mne kajetsya, ne sovsem real'no. Vse reshaet "Papochka", bud' eto Politika ili Economica. Tak chto, esli bi't' realistami, eto poka ne vozmojno, Papochka slishkom silen. No eto mojet bit' vozmojno kogda Papocka podast v otstavku, vot togda budet vozmojnost' zanyat' pozicii. No esli Papochka ostavit vse eto kak nasledstvo svoemu nasledniku, to togda ya ne mogu nichego predpolojit' nashet togo kak je budut idti deystviya dal'she, ya ne politolog.
Nu esli ne dumat' o naslednike, to v rode bi' mi' teper' mojem predpolojit' kogda mi' mojem deystvovat', NO...., mi' je zabi'vaem o "mafii", kotoraya horosho prijilas' v gosudarstvenni'h strukturah. Kak je nash'et nee? Kak je ee odalet'? Tut ya nichego tochnogo skazat' ne mogu.

No vse je est' odna alternativa na puti razvitiya nashey strani'. Mi' mojem razvivat' nashu ekonomiku s fundamenta, t.e. razvivat' otechestvenni'e predpriyatiya. Tut kto-to pisal (esli ne oshibayus' SUN6500), chto Prezident podpisal novi'y ukaz, soglasno kotoromu, s 1 July, 2001 mali'e i srednie predpriatiya osvobojdayutsya ot prodaji gusudarstvu kakogo-to procenta dohodov v valute(ot exporta). Eto daet put' dlya razvitiya exporta takim formam predpriyatiy. Nashey zadachey budet osnovi'vat' takie predpriyatiya i proizvodit kachestvennuyu produkciyu dlya exprota. Dlya etogo nam budut neobhodimi' vse znaniya, kotori'e mi' poluchili za rubejom. Nu, pol'za konechno je yasna. Sozdanie novi'h rabochih mest, a takje v rezul'tate poyavleniya bol'shego chisla takih predpriyatiy uvelecheniya nalogovogo postupleniya v Gos.budjet.
Nu a esli hotite krutitsya v bol'shom biznesse, to togda nujno ili je poluchit' dostup k upravleniyu predpriyatiya, chtobi' privodit' v jizn' svoi idei, nu.., konechno je pri uslovii, chto ministerstvo promi'shlennosti(ili kak tam) ne budet suvat' svoy nos i zapresh'at kakuyu libo samodeyatel'nost', ili je postepenno sozdat svoy krupni'y bizness, nachav s mal'enkogo.
Nu vosh'emta, kak vidno, net nichego tochnogo, krome kak sozdaniya svoego biznessa, vse eto slishkom zaputanno i vzaimosvyazanno. Eto dovol'no tipichno dlya razvivayush'eysya strani'. Nikakaya razvivayush'ayasya strana ne mojet oboyti vse trudnosti srazu, i bez kakih-libo special'ni'h preimush'estv ne mojet bi't' razvita za korotkiy srok. Tak chto, nujno vremya, chto bi' vse rasstavit' na svoi mesta.

Vsem jelayu udachi na svoem puti.

P.S. ya mnogo chego nedogovoril, nadeyus' vi' sami vse poymete.

Regards, Shurik.

[hazratqul]

Мысли Шурика разделяю и добавлю, что не только макроэкономическая политика в целом, а даже элементарный экспорт или импорт какой-то конкретной продукции делается ведь на основании ОПРЕДЕЛЕННОГО ЗАКОНА. А этот закон уже политический вопрос потому что его разрабатывают сами или совместно с экономистами-учёными, предпринимателями ПОЛИТИКИ. Качество любого закона напрямую зависит от того Кто, какие Политики разработали его - Более 100лет мысляшие в духе плановой экономике б/у коммунисты-хэдэпэшники или сторонники свободного рынка.

Совершенно согласен также с мыслью о том, что сегодня фактически Один Человек ( по определению Шурика "Папочка") правит страной и именно поэтому Узбекистан в мире известен как Авторитарное государство.
То есть государство управляется под диктатом одного человека. Может это звучит невероятно но Он даже сам в журнале "Новое время" признался в этом.
Но я не могу согласиться с другим утверждением а именно тем, что Он очень силен. Врядь ли! Приведу одну только пример:
Когда он снял вечного кардинала Исмаил Журабекова с поста вице премьера то вдруг начали случаться невероятные вещи - саботаж, короткие замыкания в эл. и тел. сети, вооруженные разборки в различных частях страны(один российский обозреватель даже подозревал клановую борьбу во взрывах 16 февраля 1999г.!! Это было в сайте fergana.ru, по моему это до сих пор есть в их архиве).
Результат -через короткое время Он возвращает Журабекова на пост министра. Потому что Он всё таки один и страшно боязлив,поэтому окружил себя гвардейцами некоренной национальности. Даже эти гвардейцы в любой момент могут покинут его если почуствуют угрозу собственной шкуре из за Шефа.
Так что не слишком крепкий трон его и он давно шатается от собственных резких движений своего обладателя. Ему бы давно пора успокоиться пока трон весь не развалился.
А его наследником номер один кажется будет нынешный премьер министр. Но его время на троне будет очень кратким -до первых свободных всеобших выборов, который даст бог будет в скорости после падения Его.