Muhammad Solih : "Chiqish Yo'li" ??? Fikringiz?

[Ulug'bek]

Muhammad Solih : "Chiqish Yo'li" ???

Qisqa 5 qismdan iborat video murojat:

http://www.tegirmon.com/uzb/tv9.html

(Чиқиш йўли. 1 қисм (http://www.tegirmon.com/uzb/tv9.html)
Чиқиш йўли. 2 қисм (http://www.tegirmon.com/uzb/tv10.html)
Чиқиш йўли. 3 қисм (http://www.tegirmon.com/uzb/tv11.html)
Чиқиш йўли. 4 қисм (http://www.tegirmon.com/uzb/tv4.html)
Чиқиш йўли. 5 қисм (http://www.tegirmon.com/uzb/tv5.html))

Uning bu qarashlari haqida sizning fikringiz qanday?

[forex]

this nimrod is not even a good speaker let alone being a leader.

[Ulug'bek]

this nimrod is not even a good speaker let alone being a leader.


Does IAK speak better than him?

Remember IAK speaking (uzbek) in early 90-ies.. :) use the same knife all the time man ...

Don't speak/write about how he speaks but what he spoke and what he might do!

[forex]

Does IAK speak better than him?

Remember IAK speaking (uzbek) in early 90-ies.. :) use the same knife all the time man ...

Don't speak/write about how he speaks but what he spoke and what he might do!


IAK is a better speaker and leader.I do not favor his politics,but he is definitely better than this man.
If I had a choice to make,I would not go for any of them.
As for his words,everybody knows it,no need to rediscover America here,I don't see him doing anything and I doubt he will ever do something.

[Frida]

Ancha yiroqlashib ketgan bu odam O'zbekistondan.
Umuman olganda bizga yangi fikrlaydigan odamlar kerak. Bu kishining aytayotgan gaplari o'sha hammom o'sha toz.

[Iqbol]

Siyosiy faoliyat maqsadi tarafidan qaralsa: gapni juda cho'zvoripti...

[Iqbol]

Ancha yiroqlashib ketgan bu odam O'zbekistondan.
Umuman olganda bizga yangi fikrlaydigan odamlar kerak. Bu kishining aytayotgan gaplari o'sha hammom o'sha toz.

Sizdaqala boru, yana yangicha fikrleydigan odam qidirshga ne hojat :)

[Frida]

Sizdaqala boru, yana yangicha fikrleydigan odam qidirshga ne hojat :)

vey, komlimetingiz uchun rahmat. Lekin mendaqalar ko'p, bizlarga lider kerak. Ana unaqalar juda difitsit bo'lib ketgan, afsus :(

[Iqbol]

vey, komlimetingiz uchun rahmat. Lekin mendaqalar ko'p, bizlarga lider kerak. Ana unaqalar juda difitsit bo'lib ketgan, afsus :(

lidirlaram ancha ko'payip qolishganu hozir, ko'rmadizmi, aytgancha birinchisi o'zlari ediku :D

[Mo'jiza]

BBC suhbatidagi ushbu gapi yoqdi:

"ҳар қандай сиёсат билан шуғулланган одам .....оддий одамларнинг чеккан изтиробларини чекиб кўриши керак. Ва оддий одамларнинг қандай яшаётганликларини билиш учун ўзи шу ҳаётни яшаши керак. Шундагина, бошқа одамларнинг изтироби ва аччиқ ҳаётини тушуниши мумкин".

podsholar shunday o'ylaganida, xalq qiynalmasdi.

Faqat taxtga kelgach avvalgi gaplari esdan chiqib ketadigan odamlar ham bor.

Bu odam "инсон учун бу дунё буюк бир имтиҳон эканини, синов эканини" bilar ekan, har qalay.

[Ma'ruf]

Bu odam O'zbechani zo'rg'a gapiryaptiku...:)Qanaqa leader?

[NuR_BeK]

Faqatgina xalqning manfaatini o'ylaganida, eski lentani chaynamas edi, taxtga talashamasdi, muxolifatlar bilan birlashib harakat qilar edi... (taxtga zulukdek talashib yopishish o'rniga).
Avliyo kiyimini kiyib olgan tulkilardan xudo bizni bundan bu yog'iga hech bo'lmasa asrasin.

[Uyyonli]

Nu-Rbek
Faqatgina xalqning manfaatini o'ylaganida, eski lentani chaynamas edi, taxtga talashamasdi, muxolifatlar bilan birlashib harakat qilar edi... (taxtga zulukdek talashib yopishish o'rniga).
Avliyo kiyimini kiyib olgan tulkilardan xudo bizni bundan bu yog'iga hech bo'lmasa asrasin.
__________________
Nega birlashishmayotganini sababini bilasizmi, qolgan muholifatchilar buni hohlashmaydi nega chunki qolganlar orasida I.A.Knikiliardan bor yoki boshqaradi...

[Madalio'g'li]

"Davlatimiz mustoqil bo'ldi, ammo zihnimiz mustoqil bo'lmadi." MS

[infolife]

Bu balkim uzbeklarga tekkan kasalmi birinchi so'z olgan 1-2user yomonlab qoysa boldi, orqasidan hamma yomonlab gapiradi.

O'zbekchasi bir yahshi, IAKdan yahshiroq gapiryapti dona-dona qilib.

Frida Kahlo,
Eski tosh, eski tog'ora debsiz. Ha uzbekistondagi muammolar 15 yildan beri hech qanday yechimini topmay, oldinga siljish o'rniga nuqul orqaga ketayotgan bolsa siyosatchilar ham eski tosh, eski tog'oraga yopishmasdan iloji yoqku. Nima ozlari Uzbga aloqasi bolmagan muammolari/yechimlar oylab topib shu haqda gapirsinmi?

Undan keyin, qani osha yangicha fikrlaydigan lider?Uni yana nechchi yil kutishi kerak halq?

Muholifat togrisida gap ketarkan, bu yerdagi uzbeklarni aksariyati IAKdan boshqa har bir chiqqan liderni tanqid qilishdan nariga o'tganini kormadim. Ular balkim tanqidga arzir, shahsan M.Solih nima ishlar bn mashg'ul aniq maqsadi meng ayonmas. Ammo, ozi bizi uzbeklarga bir narsani yoqishi qiyinga o'shaydi. ayniqsa lider tanlash borasida,UNisini o'poq, bunisini so'poq deyishorib bir qarorga kelishguncha IAKdek qattiqqo'l odam kuch bilan davlat tepasiga keladi.

[Arhimed]

uzbekchani bir yahshi doa dona qilib gapirdi.

Etibor bergan bo'lsalaring u din va zamonaviy qonunchilik birligi tog'risida so'z ochdi. Demakki uze dindorlardan bir qanchasi uni tarafini oladi desa bo'ladi.

Albatta, chet elda yurganiga yosh avlodni ko'pchiligi uni tanimaydi. Electoratni 30-40% esa 30 yoshgacha bo'lganlar tashkil qiladi, demakki uzbekiston ichida targ'ibotni olib borgandagina biror narsa erishishi mumkin, aks holda chet elda yurgan vatandohlarimiz ko'pi tirikchilik bilan ovora va saylovlarda qatnashish befarq

[Akademik]

Menimcha O'zbekchasi u qadar yomon odam emas. Ancha so'z boyligiga ega shahs menincha har qaley 'SHOIR' insonku.

Bu kabi chiqishlari bilan kimni etiborini olishga uringanini bir oz tushunmadim bu lentani O'zbekistondagi halq o'rarmikin? Kolaversa saylovga qatnashish uchun avvalo qonuniy davogar bo'lib ro'yhattan o'tishi kerak. Bu esa u va uning gruhidagilarga oson kechadigan ish emas, yana bilmadim.
Uni ustiga IAK aka ham yoshi bir yerga borib qoldi erta yoki indin ketish vaqti bo'lib qoladi qosh qo'lab oyoq-qo'lini tirab olgani bilan ammo u ketgach kim keladi shunisi juda qiziq ayni hozirgi holatta.
M. Solih ni davlatga kirishi haqida hozirgi kunda o'ylab ko'rish kiyin, qolaversa ancha ishtahali, hukumat tahtiga qavogar, undan ko'ra bir oz yoshroq kishilar qilichini qayrab o'tirishgan bo'lsa kerak.
Hullas, ushbu vaziyat qanday kechishini kuzatishdan boshqa choramiz yoq.

HAMMAGA SALOMLAR

[Pythagor]

8ta qismakan, lekin hechqaysini kuromayapmiz youtubedan serverga birbalo buldimi?

[Frida]

Frida Kahlo,
Eski tosh, eski tog'ora debsiz. Ha uzbekistondagi muammolar 15 yildan beri hech qanday yechimini topmay, oldinga siljish o'rniga nuqul orqaga ketayotgan bolsa siyosatchilar ham eski tosh, eski tog'oraga yopishmasdan iloji yoqku. Nima ozlari Uzbga aloqasi bolmagan muammolari/yechimlar oylab topib shu haqda gapirsinmi?

birinchidan, toz, tosh emas. Ikkinchida o`z fikrimni aytdim, qo`ydim. Arpangizni xom o`rgan edimmi, menga tashlab qolibsiz? Eski fikrlar, nomenklatura ishlamayapgani uchun, ishlasa ham faqat o'sha elit samarasiga ishlayotgani uchun uni almashtirish kerak, yangi tizimni ko'rgan bilgan odamlar kelishi kerak dedim. Albatta ideal senariy -- 10 nomzodni tinglab birini tanlash, lekin o'sha nomzodlar yo'q bo'lganidan keyin, borini tanqid qilamizde. Nima endi, tanqid qilishga ham bermaysizmi?

[infolife]

birinchidan, toz, tosh emas. Ikkinchida o`z fikrimni aytdim, qo`ydim. Arpangizni xom o`rgan edimmi, menga tashlab qolibsiz? Eski fikrlar, nomenklatura ishlamayapgani uchun, ishlasa ham faqat o'sha elit samarasiga ishlayotgani uchun uni almashtirish kerak, yangi tizimni ko'rgan bilgan odamlar kelishi kerak dedim. Albatta ideal senariy -- 10 nomzodni tinglab birini tanlash, lekin o'sha nomzodlar yo'q bo'lganidan keyin, borini tanqid qilamizde. Nima endi, tanqid qilishga ham bermaysizmi?

tanqid haqidagi gapim bitta sizga emas, bu yerdagi barcha userlarga aytilgan umumiy gap bolgan.

hususan sizga esa faqat shu savol bilan murojat qildim:

siz aytgan yangicha fikrlaydigan liderni halq qancha kutishi kerak?va yoki bu liderni fikrlari nimasi bilan yangicha?ya'ni bir liderni yangicha fikrlaydigan deb atashingiz uchun nimalar kerak unga?

sizdan shuni soradim holos.hali arpami umuman ormagansiz, menam sizga umuman tashaganim yoq hali.:)

[UzLand]

Bu balkim uzbeklarga tekkan kasalmi birinchi so'z olgan 1-2user yomonlab qoysa boldi, orqasidan hamma yomonlab gapiradi.


Танкид билан емонлаш уртасида катта фарк бор. Танкид асосли булса ундан фойда катта. Кейин номзодларни куздан кечирганда уларнинг ИАК дан яхширок булиши кифоя килмайди. Улар узбек халки учун яхши булиши керак. Кейин одамнинг хокимиятга келмасидан олдин унинг яхши емонлигини факат дастурига караб бахолаш мумкин. Бирок айримлар дастурдан хам кейинрок воз кечиши мумкин.

Танкид булиши керак ва булганда хам соглом танкид.

[hojiaka]

Umumiy fikrlar jamlanmasidan kelib chiqqanda bu odam haqida, uning siyosiy tutgan yo'li va muholifat tashkil etgandan beri qo'llayotgan "chiqish yollari" halqqa-O'zbek halqiga ro'shnolik keltirganini eshitmaganman. "ERK" Partiyasining nomi ostida nechcha minglab grantlar olib shahsiy manfaa'tlari yolida ishlatgani, boshqalarni ig'vo qilish bilan nariga o'tmaydigan web sahifa va gazetalaridan o'tib boshqa hayrli ishga qol urganini ham eshitganim yoq. O'zi aytayotgan kabi garb mamlakatlarida yashab ularning siyosiy modellarini mukammal o'rgangan bo'lsada, 15 yil vatanda bo'lmaslik "MAN BOSHQARAMAN" "PRESIDENT BO'LAMAN" "MENING CHIQISH YOLIM BOR!!!" kabi hayqiriqlarga chek qoyadi. He is DONE!



P.S. Boshqa lider topilar bollar! Boshqa odam kere, yaaaangi, sveeeeejiyyyy hamma bomasayam kopchilik hurmat qiladigan, uni ustiga Vodiydan bosa vashsshshe zor bolardi :) hehehe (P.S. Ohirgi gap pravakatsion chiqdimi aaaa ):):):)

[NifTy-Nix]

P.S. Boshqa lider topilar bollar! Boshqa odam kere, yaaaangi, sveeeeejiyyyy hamma bomasayam kopchilik hurmat qiladigan, uni ustiga Vodiydan bosa vashsshshe zor bolardi :) hehehe (P.S. Ohirgi gap pravakatsion chiqdimi aaaa ):):):)

Shu yangi, svejiy lidereni topish qiyinde bizani o'rta osiyoda. Mana bittasi qirgizlani prezidentimi, yangi, svejiy, qolgan-qutgan pullani o'marib yotgan. Yana bittasi turkmanlani boshida o'tiribdi, uyam turkmanboshilikni yangidan boshlavotti. Bizam manimcha hech qolishmimiz, mentalitet bir hil. Poka shunaqa "yangi"sini ktuib o'tiruramiz.

Lekin, he is DONE dib to'g'ri ettiz, u Uzbga endi qaytib borsayam baribir qo'lidan hech nima kemidi, uni davri o'tti.

[Arhimed]

Bizni odamlarga hayronsan, nimaga biz uchun qanaqadir lider chiqib hayotuimizni o'zgartirishi kerak. Sharqni g'arbdab farqi ham shunda, har qancha urinmaylik bitta odam shoh bo'lishini istaymiz va biz uchun hamma narsani o'zi hal qilishiga qarab o'tiramiz.

Davlatni halq boshqarishi kerak, preseidentlar esa halq namoyondalari ko'rsatmalarini bajarishi kerak.

Spasenie utopayushih delo ruk utopayushish deyishadi.

Odamlar, osmondan bitta odam tushib hayotimizni yahshilab beradi deb kutmanglar bunday bo'lmaydi. O'zgarish bo'lishi ucuh avval o'zimizning davlat to'grisidagi fikrimizni o'zgartirishimiz kerak. Hattoki Muhammad Solih yo boshqa odam kelsa ham biz o'z huquqlarimizni talab qilmaydigan bo'lsak hech narsa o'zgarmaydi

[UzLand]

Boshqa lider topilar bollar!

hozir poll o'tqazvoramiz:) turklar ovoz beraversinmi?

[NuR_BeK]

Oldin ta'kidlab o'tgan fikrimga to'xtaladigan bo'lsam, u insonni lider deb atay olmayman (shaxsiy fikrim).

Odamzod bor joyda manfaat albatta bo'ladi, bu esa har birimizga kundek ravshandir, lekin 26 mln. xalq taqdiri haqida gap ketar ekan, shu xalqning farovonligini ta'minlashni, xalqga xizmat qilishni o'z zimmasiga oladigan lider, inson hech qachon o'z manfaatlarini ochiqchasiga namoyon etmaydi.

M.S. shu damgacha necha marta chiqish qilgan bo'lsa, doim va doim "bizning yo'limiz boshqa", "biz tepaga borsak unday bo'ladi" qa'bilidagi bir xil lentani chaynaydi. Boshqa muxolifatlarda kimni odami bo'lgan taqdirida ham, bu ikki muxolifat birlashib hech bo'lmasa musofirchilikda, muxojirlikda hozirgi rejimga temir musht bo'lib harakat qilganlarida, bir-biri bilan urushmay, so'kishmay ittifoqlashib hamkorlik qilganida, taxt uchun obro'-e'tiborlarini yerla yakson qilmaganlarida xalq ularni tanirmidi balki...

Xalqimizda bir naql bejiz aytilmagan "Birlashgan o'zar, birlashmagan to'zar" deb.

Xabarlarni o'qir ekansan, bu ikki "otasidan meros qolgan mulkni bo'lisha olmayotgan" sharmandali muxolifatga achinib qo'yasan kishi. Tag'in bu haqiqatni bilib turib "liderlar chiqsa, bir kishi tanqid qilgan zahoti qolganlar jo'r bo'lishadi" degan gaplarni aytamiz. Bizlarga namuna bo'lib ma'noli ishlarni qilganida, balki hurmatli inson sifatida tilga olinar edi.

Lekin yana bir narsaga urg'u berish kerakki, muxolifat bir-biri bilan yuz ko'rmas bo'lsada, bir-birini ustiga mag'zava to'kishdan nariga o'tmasa-da, shunaqa ko'rsatuvchalar tayyorlashga vaqti yetayapdi. Bu albatta e'tibordan chetda qolmaydigan holatdir.

Lider ham inson, unda ham shubhasiz manfaat bor, lekin lider sifatida eng avvalo bergan va'dalarini ustidan chiqsa, xalqni manfaatini unutib qo'ymasa, islohotlarni tarixda nomi qolish uchun yuzaki emas, chin dildan qilsa, xalq uni duo qilib eslasa. Ana unda uni chiqishlarini xalq sevib tinglaydi.

[hojiaka]

hozir poll o'tqazvoramiz:) turklar ovoz beraversinmi?

Turklarni ovozi "chol"ni ketishini tanimlasa dabro :)

[Vector]

Ozbekistonga lider kere albatta bomasam haligi Krilovni lebed, rak i shuka basnyasidagi holat yuz beradi...manfaatli tomonlani jipsla oladigan inson bolishi kere...
Ozbekistonda hali beri demokratik institutla rivojlanmagan davrda boshida usha sistemani rivojlantirishga lider bolishi kerak, hozirgi paytda ozbek halqi davlatga 'demokratik' vakilni yetishitirib beradigan ahvoldamas.
bu ish MSni qolidan keladi manimcha, kamida iymonli odam...

[Pythagor]

hozir poll o'tqazvoramiz:) turklar ovoz beraversinmi?

turkla kimga ovoz berarkin, shunga qarab, qo'yish kere ulani.

[AL-Midwest]

I never liked him and I don't know what what he is hoping for....well we know but it is not real to accomplish

[Ulug'bek]

hozir poll o'tqazvoramiz:) turklar ovoz beraversinmi?

Shu pollaringiz juda palak otib ketmadi-a? :)


on:
Siyosatchi bo'lmagan ammo o'zbek siyosatini muntazam (10 yildan ortiq) kuzatgan 1 o'zbek kuzatuvchi sifatida shuni aytishim mumkinki, MS da boshqa o'zbek siyosatchilarda juda kam uchraydigan to'g'riso'zlik, soflik, sidiqidillik (ba'zan bu sidqidillik afsuski o'ta soddalikkacha yetib borishi ham mumkin) bor, ayyorlik/mug'ambirlik esa deyarli yo'q (bugungi siyosatda bu bazan zararli ham bo'lishi mumkin).

Agar U o'zining g'oyalariga qat'iy ishonadigan, xiyonatdan va laganbardorlikdan uzoq, uning biroz soddaligi oqibatlarini to'g'rilab boradigan professional kommanda (kamida o'nlarcha) to'plab ularga yo'lboshchilik qilsa, qutblashish juda yuksak bo'lgan bugungi o'zbek jamiyatiga liderlik qilishga undan ko'ra munosibroq nomzod topish mushkuldir, kamida "muxolifat" ichidan. Hozirgi hukumat ichidan ko'rsatilishi mumkin nomzodlarning esa ezgu g'oyaga egaligini va sidqidilligini katta shubha ostiga olaman. O'zbekiston (bugungi vaziyatdan kelib chiqib) muammolariga yechim taqdim etayotgan kishida kamida 4 ta narsa bo'lishi kerak:
1. Xalq farovonligini ko'zda tutgan ezgu g'oya, ya'ni ezgu g'oyaga ega ezgu inson bo'lish.
2. Xalqni siyosiy arbob sifatida ergashtira bilish qobiliyati (bu qobilyat ko'rsatishi imkon berilishi zarurligini ham unutmang!).
3. Makr va hiylaga to'liq bugungi siyosat olamida yengil qurbon bo'lib ketmaslikka yetarli mahorat.
4. G'oyasiga sodiq professional kommanda.
(MSda 3-yoq, 4-ga erishishiga umid kam)

MSning bugungi rejim tazyiqiga uchrashi, uzoq musofirlikda bo'lishi va chet elda yillar davomida turli tajribalar oshirishiga yetarlicha baho berish lozim, bular insonni "pishitadigan" muhim omillar.

Mening MS bilan farqli bo'lgan ko'plab qarashlarim bor, yuqoridagilarni esa faqat yaxshilik va yomonlikdagi nisbiylik o'lchami nuqtai nazari va insof yuzasidan aytdim.

MSning eng zaif tomoni esa U juda oson aldanishi mumkin, shuning uchun ham, sof niyatli professional komandasiz U muvaffaqiyatga erisholmaydi. Yana 1 zaif tomoni (kamida avvallari mavjud bo'lgan) kibr kasalidan esa, ortgan imoni sabab to'liq davolangan deb o'ylayman.

on/on :):

Lavhalarni hammasini ko'rdim. MS O'zbekiston muammolarini deyarli to'liq his etishini yaqqol ko'rsatgan. Yechimlariga bergan umumiy chizg'ilari ham yomon emas.
Bir narsani aniq ishonch bilan aytishim mumkinki agar IAK ham mana shunday qarash, ishonch va sidqidillikka ega bo'lganda mehnatsevar o'zbeklar haqiqatdan ham bugungi qashshoqlikka tushmasdilar. Xalqqa iqtisodiy erkinlik berishning o'zi ko'plab muammolarga yechim topardi.

ps. Men MSchi emasman, tag'in toshga ko'ma ketmanglar meni :)

[Professor]

Bizni odamlarga hayronsan, nimaga biz uchun qanaqadir lider chiqib hayotuimizni o'zgartirishi kerak. Sharqni g'arbdab farqi ham shunda, har qancha urinmaylik bitta odam shoh bo'lishini istaymiz va biz uchun hamma narsani o'zi hal qilishiga qarab o'tiramiz.

Davlatni halq boshqarishi kerak, preseidentlar esa halq namoyondalari ko'rsatmalarini bajarishi kerak.

Spasenie utopayushih delo ruk utopayushish deyishadi.

Odamlar, osmondan bitta odam tushib hayotimizni yahshilab beradi deb kutmanglar bunday bo'lmaydi. O'zgarish bo'lishi ucuh avval o'zimizning davlat to'grisidagi fikrimizni o'zgartirishimiz kerak. Hattoki Muhammad Solih yo boshqa odam kelsa ham biz o'z huquqlarimizni talab qilmaydigan bo'lsak hech narsa o'zgarmaydi

Astagfirulluloh endi buni taqqoslash uchun aytganim emas, lekin Janobi Payg'ambar ham Johillikda qolgan arab qavmlari uchun yuborildilar. Va tarixda juda kup urnaklar bor, rohbarlarni halq tomonidan saylanib bu halqning rivojlanishiga sabab bugan. Turgut Ozal ha chukayotgan Turk halqiga qutqaruvchi vazifasini utadi. Agarda Putin kelmaganida edi hozirda mumkin Rossiya degan suzni uzi bulmazdi, davlat jar yoqasiga kelib qogandi. Humayni kelib fuhush va usha davrning Dubay rolini utagan eron jamiyatini zalolatdan chiqardi. va juda kup urnaklar bor. Man aytmoqhi emasman, usha jamiyatlar ideal sifatida bizga moslashtirilish kerak deb. Hamma vaqt rohbar/muallim/ustoz va liderga tayanadi har qanday jamiyat ham...yuq desangiz birorta shunday jamiyatni misol tariqasida keltirsangiz?
Faqatgina iymonli va ruslar aytgandek har tomonlama kompitentniy va Muhammad Solih aytgandek Baytul molga hiyonat qilmaydigan odamgina Uzbekistonni qutqazadi, hech qanaqa halq emas, halq ilimdan, tafakurdan, birdamlikdan bazi bir sabablarga kura ancha uzoqda qolgan.

Tema buyicha...o'zbeckhani yaxshi gapirgan, lekin bu odamga ham ishonib bumaydi, ertaga hukumatga kelsa garb promoterlariga ishlaydi, bu 100% da 100% aniqdir. Halq ichidan chiqishi kerak.

[Arhimed]

Astagfirulluloh endi buni taqqoslash uchun aytganim emas, lekin Janobi Payg'ambar ham Johillikda qolgan arab qavmlari uchun yuborildilar. Va tarixda juda kup urnaklar bor, rohbarlarni halq tomonidan saylanib bu halqning rivojlanishiga sabab bugan. Turgut Ozal ha chukayotgan Turk halqiga qutqaruvchi vazifasini utadi. Agarda Putin kelmaganida edi hozirda mumkin Rossiya degan suzni uzi bulmazdi, davlat jar yoqasiga kelib qogandi. Humayni kelib fuhush va usha davrning Dubay rolini utagan eron jamiyatini zalolatdan chiqardi. va juda kup urnaklar bor. Man aytmoqhi emasman, usha jamiyatlar ideal sifatida bizga moslashtirilish kerak deb. Hamma vaqt rohbar/muallim/ustoz va liderga tayanadi har qanday jamiyat ham...yuq desangiz birorta shunday jamiyatni misol tariqasida keltirsangiz?
Faqatgina iymonli va ruslar aytgandek har tomonlama kompitentniy va Muhammad Solih aytgandek Baytul molga hiyonat qilmaydigan odamgina Uzbekistonni qutqazadi, hech qanaqa halq emas, halq ilimdan, tafakurdan, birdamlikdan bazi bir sabablarga kura ancha uzoqda qolgan.

Tema buyicha...o'zbeckhani yaxshi gapirgan, lekin bu odamga ham ishonib bumaydi, ertaga hukumatga kelsa garb promoterlariga ishlaydi, bu 100% da 100% aniqdir. Halq ichidan chiqishi kerak.


Bo'masa osmonga qarab o'tiravering kim bizni qutqarar ekan, qaerda ekan o'sha azamat deb. Halq o'zi o'zini yahshilash uchun harakat qilmasa mingta lider bo'sa ham ahvol o'zgarmaydi

[UzLand]

turkla kimga ovoz berarkin, shunga qarab, qo'yish kere ulani.

елгон-яшикни купиртириб гапирган одамга:)

[Abu-Hafiza]

Bu mavzu haqida qanchadan qancha tortishuvlar bo;ldi, qanchadan qancha misollar keltirildi, tanqidlar iqlindi, lekin afsuski haligacha bu kabi mavzular dolzarbligicha qolmoqda (afsus deganim shungaki haliyam biron narsa o'zgarmagan o'zbekistonda).

Muholifat birlashishi haqida gapiriladi, lekin shuni ham unutmaslik kerakki, har bir demokratik davlatda muholifat partiyalari mavjud va birortasi birlashmaydi. Yani bir partiya (masalan UK dagi Liberal Demokratlar) boshqa barcha partiyaga muholifatligicha qoladi. Shguning uchun "birlashish"- muholifatni yoki har qanday partiyani baholash kriteriyasi bo'lmalsigi kerak menimcha.

Men shaxsan muxolifatchilarning ko'pini taniyman. Menga hoh ishoning, hoh ishonmang, ularning ko'pchiligi haqiaqatdan ham halq ravnaqi uchun qayguradigan odamlar. Hatolari ko'p, lekin menga hato deb ko'ringan narsa balki ularga to'g'ridek ko'rinar. Menga to'g'ridek ko'ringani bulsa balki boshqalarga hato deb ko'rinadi.

Bu yerda MS haqida yoki umuman muholifat haqida gapirayotgan odamlarning ko'pchiligi obyektiv fikr sohibi emaslar va bo'lay olmaydilar. Sabablari quyidagicha:

1. Bu yerdagilarning ko'pchiligi muholifatning saksoninchi yillari ohiri 90 yillar boshidagi faoliyatidan, ularning yutuqlaridan (masalan o'zbek tilining davlat tili etib tayinlanishi, o'zbekistonning mustaqil bo'lishi va hokazo) behabardirlar.
2. Bu yerdagilarning ko'pchiligi muholifatchilarimiz haqida eshitgan ilk gaplari davlatning ularga qarshi propagandasidir, shunin guchun hatto chetga chiqqandan keyin ham ularga o'sha ehsitgan krieriyasi ko'zoynagi ostida qarashadi
3. Bu yerda u yoki bu haqida gapiruchilanring ko'pi muholifatchilarning dasturini umrlarida bir martta ham qarab chiqmaganlar. Hatto muholifatning bir biriga tosh otishi faktini o'zini ham orqavorotdan, uchinchi shahslar tarafidna eshitishgan.

Yani muholifat bilan hatto chetdagi o'zbeklarning ham orasidagi connection yuq. Shuning uchun mening fikrim, muholifat qanchalik jon kuydirsa ham halqimiz ularni tarafini olmaydi, chunki halqimizda ikr paydo bulib bulgan.

Lekin yana bir narsa ham borki, bizda kim ubu narsa qilaman, desa, erkchi birlikchilarga umman aloqasi yuq bulsa ham u "muholifatchi" deb tamga oladi va unga ham huddi shu gaplar otiladi. Halqimiz u haqida birortasini o'ylahsini hohlamaydi chog'i. Qarab hayron qoladi kishi, nahotki karimovni hamma hurmat qilardi? Qanday qilib u odam qilayotgan ishini qurqmay qila olish darajasiga yetgan?

Bizning halq orasida har doim shohlarimizga buysunish bulgan. Ota-bobolarimiz ham duolarida podshohimiz yaxshi bulsin, deb duo qilishar edi. Demak doim biror podshohga umid bulardi, o'zlari bi rlider tarbiyalashni hohlamas edi. Demakki halqimiz haqiqatdan ham ozodlikga, demokratiyaga tayyor emas. Ular faqatgina boshidagi podshohga qarab yo bahtlik halq yoki badbaht halqligicha qolaverar ekan. Shu forumda qatnashuvchilarning kamia 90 foizi O'zbekistondagi sharoitdan norozi, hammasi u haqida, bu haqida nolaydi. Lekin hehc kim o'zidna bir harakat iqlmaydi, qilmoqchi bulganlarni ham tanqid qiladi.
Demak bizda yechim yuq ekan. Demak halq yana IAKni zulmiga chidab yuraverish kerak ekan degan hulosaga kelaman bazan :(

[Luganos]

hafa bolmelaru lekin bu odam hech ham IAk dan qolishmasa kere. Undan ko`ra bitamta ayolni (IAK ni qizi emas lekin) qoyish kere, hozir bu juda aktualniy. Yaqinda franceda ham ayol bolishi mumkin, ha nima kayf qilib yashemiz hehehe, MS ni hotini yoqmi mabodo, sal tuzuro bosa men za .

[UzLand]

hafa bolmelaru lekin bu odam hech ham IAk dan qolishmasa kere. Undan ko`ra bitamta ayolni (IAK ni qizi emas lekin) qoyish kere, hozir bu juda aktualniy. Yaqinda franceda ham ayol bolishi mumkin, ha nima kayf qilib yashemiz hehehe, MS ni hotini yoqmi mabodo, sal tuzuro bosa men za .

Худди кимни куйиш кераклиги сиз билан менга богликдай:)

[MirzoBobur]

Kecha men ham shuni ko'rib qoldim.

Uni gaplari Buzuq aravani g'ilgiragiga o'xshaydi. Su uchun birinchisidan boshqasini ko'rishga vaqt ajratgim kelmadi ham.

[Professor]

Bo'masa osmonga qarab o'tiravering kim bizni qutqarar ekan, qaerda ekan o'sha azamat deb. Halq o'zi o'zini yahshilash uchun harakat qilmasa mingta lider bo'sa ham ahvol o'zgarmaydi
Ha endi urtoq Arhimed...direct speech'ga utmangda..qayerdan bilasiz man qaysi davlat fuqarosiman. Krilovning Rak, lebed i shyuka degan basnyasini uqiganmisiz...rohbarsiz halq mana shunaqa ahvolda buladi. Mana yangi demokratiyaga intilayotgn davlatlar shunga misol, rohba kerak rohbar. :lol:
Siz ham oila rohbarisiz yoki bulasiz insholloh....sizni ham urningiz bordur yo nulmi?:)

[bacha]

Yahshi gapirgan.

P.S. Uzbekcha ham zur gapirgan. Horazmlikmi shevasi aksenti bor, faqat uzbekchada lug`at boyligi IAKnikidan ancha kattaroq.

[ElNemo]

vey, bironteylar (bu yerda tanqidiy va boshqa fikr qoldirganlar) bu inson bilan shaxsan ko'rishganmisila? yoki shunchaki bu videoga ko'ra gap yozayapsizlarmi?

[infolife]

M.S. shu damgacha necha marta chiqish qilgan bo'lsa, doim va doim "bizning yo'limiz boshqa", "biz tepaga borsak unday bo'ladi" qa'bilidagi bir xil lentani chaynaydi. Boshqa muxolifatlarda kimni odami bo'lgan taqdirida ham, bu ikki muxolifat birlashib hech bo'lmasa musofirchilikda, muxojirlikda hozirgi rejimga temir musht bo'lib harakat qilganlarida, bir-biri bilan urushmay, so'kishmay ittifoqlashib hamkorlik qilganida, taxt uchun obro'-e'tiborlarini yerla yakson qilmaganlarida xalq ularni tanirmidi balki...

Xalqimizda bir naql bejiz aytilmagan "Birlashgan o'zar, birlashmagan to'zar" deb.

Xabarlarni o'qir ekansan, bu ikki "otasidan meros qolgan mulkni bo'lisha olmayotgan" sharmandali muxolifatga achinib qo'yasan kishi. Tag'in bu haqiqatni bilib turib "liderlar chiqsa, bir kishi tanqid qilgan zahoti qolganlar jo'r bo'lishadi" degan gaplarni aytamiz. Bizlarga namuna bo'lib ma'noli ishlarni qilganida, balki hurmatli inson sifatida tilga olinar edi.

Lekin yana bir narsaga urg'u berish kerakki, muxolifat bir-biri bilan yuz ko'rmas bo'lsada, bir-birini ustiga mag'zava to'kishdan nariga o'tmasa-da, shunaqa ko'rsatuvchalar tayyorlashga vaqti yetayapdi. Bu albatta e'tibordan chetda qolmaydigan holatdir.


Bir narsaga hayron qolaman. Democratlar bilan respublikachilar hech qachon birlashmaydi. Garchi USda 3chi yirik bir party bolganda ham, bu ikkisi shu 3ga qarshi birlashib emas, alohida harakat qilgan boladrdi. UKda Labour party bilan Concervative Party hech qachon BNPga qarshi birlashmaydi. chunki bular hammasi bir-biriga muholifat.

Shunday ekan 2ta o'zbek muholifatini IAK hukumatiga qarshi birlashishi bu girt bemanilikka o'hshaydi. hayronman nimaga kopchilik userlar nuqul 2ta muholifatni birlashishi haqida qayguradi,ahir har bir muholifat faqatgina amaldagi hukumatga emas, bir-biriga ham muholifat bomasa uni muholifatligi qayoqda qoladi.

ps:men bu odami ishlari bilan yaqindan tanish emasman shu uchun maqtashga ham,tanqidga ham aytarli gapim yoq. bu faqat muholifatni birlashish togrisidagi fikrizga comment holos.

[ElNemo]

fyi, y'all: www.muhammadsolih.info

[Iqbol]

vey, komlimetingiz uchun rahmat. Lekin mendaqalar ko'p, bizlarga lider kerak. Ana unaqalar juda difitsit bo'lib ketgan, afsus :(

Salom, Fridahon!
Sizni liderlar haqidagi gapizdan keyin xayolimga bir fikr kelgandi, shuni aytmoqchi edim:
Lider kerak, lider chiqishini ko'pchilik kutyapti. Lekin lider qachon keladi? Shu savolni ko'pchilik beradi.
Bir asr oldinga borsangiz ham shu holat. Sudanda ingliz mustamlakasi davom etayotgan bir vaqtda, xalq inglizlarga ommaviy qarshi chiqishga qo'rqadi, chunki inglizlar texnik, harbiy taraflarda ancha ustun. Shuning uchun xalq g'ayrioddiy bir mo'jizani kutishdan nariga o'taolmaydi. Shu kunlarda islom olamida notiqligi va aktivistligi bilan tanilgan Jamoliddin Afgoniy hazratlari Sudanga tashrif buyuradi va o'sha kunda Sudan lideri bo'lgan shaxs bilan uchrashadi. Jamoliddin Afgoniy "nimaga xalqingni ommaviy safarbar qilib inglizlarga qarshi kurashmaysan" deb so'raganda muxotabi javob beradiki : "xalqim, inglizlarning ko'p sohalarda bizdan kuchli, ustunligi uchun, qarshi chiqishdan qo'rqadi. Ular faqatgina Mahdiy inglizlarni yengaoladi deb ishonib qolgan. Shuning uchun ularni qancha kurashga chaqirmay ta'siri bo'lmayapti".
Shunda Jamoliddin Afgoniy: "Unda yur, men seni Mahdiy deb e'lon qilaman. Zotan, ma'lum bir manoda mahdiy qutqaruvchidir, sen ham xalqingni qutqaruvchisi bo'lgin" degan ma'noda gapiradi va lider bilan xalq qarshisiga chiqadi. Va, xalqqa qarab: "Ey, xalq, siz bilan biz kutgan Alloh yuborgan Mahdiy shu kishi bo'ladi. Endi bizga Alloh nusrat beradi, inglizlarni vataningizdan daf qiling" degan ma'noda juda ta'sirli nutq bilan xitob qiladi. Ushbu nutqdan keyin xalq orasida kuchli hayajonlanish va natijaviy safarbarlik vujudga keladi. Xalqning inglizlarga qarshi kurashi jiddiy tus olib, ushbu harakat bir kuni Sudanning istiqloli bilan natijalanadi.
Hikoyadan olinabiladigan darslardan biri: bu, ma'lum bir narsalarni tushunib yetgandan keyin, g'ayrioddiy lider kutib vaqtni yo'qotish befoydaligi, va kerak bo'lsa xalq kutayotgan liderni o'zimiz yaratishimiz, va vaqtni boy bermasdan harakatga o'tish yo'llarini qidirishimiz kerakligi.

[Professor]

Agarda kibr, man-manmanlik, hokimiyatga bulgan sevgidan uzoq bulgan odamlarning 10 tasi bir oraga kelsarohbarni uzlari tanlashib unga bayat qiladilar, ishni uzi asta sekin joyidan quzgaladi, tamom vassalom. Bu hech qanday gayri oddiy yoki aqla sigmaydigan narsa emas.
Afsuski bizda shunaqa odamlar bor, lekin yo passiv yo qurqoq...yani kup narsani uylab och qornim tinch qulogim tabirida ish kurishadi.

[NuR_BeK]

Bir narsaga hayron qolaman. Democratlar bilan respublikachilar hech qachon birlashmaydi. Garchi USda 3chi yirik bir party bolganda ham, bu ikkisi shu 3ga qarshi birlashib emas, alohida harakat qilgan boladrdi. UKda Labour party bilan Concervative Party hech qachon BNPga qarshi birlashmaydi. chunki bular hammasi bir-biriga muholifat.

Shunday ekan 2ta o'zbek muholifatini IAK hukumatiga qarshi birlashishi bu girt bemanilikka o'hshaydi. hayronman nimaga kopchilik userlar nuqul 2ta muholifatni birlashishi haqida qayguradi,ahir har bir muholifat faqatgina amaldagi hukumatga emas, bir-biriga ham muholifat bomasa uni muholifatligi qayoqda qoladi.

ps:men bu odami ishlari bilan yaqindan tanish emasman shu uchun maqtashga ham,tanqidga ham aytarli gapim yoq. bu faqat muholifatni birlashish togrisidagi fikrizga comment holos.


Ushbu demokratik qarashga men ham 99% qo'shilaman, lekin Angliya va USAda kuni kechadagi siyosiy ahvol O'zbekistondagi siyosiy muhitga nisbatan yer bilan osmoncha farq bor.

Xudo nasib etib, yurtimizda ham qachonlardir demokratiya shabbodasi esa boshlasa, o'shanda bu fikringizga 100% qo'shilsa arziydi.

Hozirda bizda bir necha partiyalar bor, lekin ularning bor yo'qligini o'zlari ham sezmaydilar, chunki ularning vazifa va maqsadlari hozirgi hukumatning istak va xohishlari chegarasidan chiqmaydi.

Bas shunday ekan, hozir yo'q o'ljaga bir-birini g'ajib natijada chetda qolib ketaverishdan naf yo'q. Partiyalar raqobati bilan partiyalarning nafratli janjallaridagi farqni sezsangiz kerak?!

Nima bo'lgan taqdirda ham yurtimiz osmonida farovonlik bo'lsin!

[Iqbol]

Mahdi keladi Insha Allah. Uydirma, g'ayrioddiy deyish noto'g'ri.

Meni gapimni ham maqsadimni ham tushunmadingiz.
Gayrioddiy deganim, Mahdiyni gayrioddiy demadim: balki gayrioddiy birlider kutishlik, ya'ni tarixda o'tgan Napoleon, de Gaulle, Xolid ibn Valid va shu kabi oddiy normalardan tashqariga chiqip ketgan va juda kuchli shaxsiyatga ega bo'lgan insonni kutib vaqtni o'tkazmaslik kerak demoqchi bo'ldim. bunday liderlar albatta kerak, bunaqa liderlar bo'lsa maqsad yolida bo'lgan yo'l ancha qisqaradi, lekin yillardan beri chiqmayotgan ekan, yana yillar davomida kutib vaqtni yo'qotmaslik kerak. balki agar bir guruh insonlar bazi narsalarni tushunib yetgan ekan o'z aql-qudratlari chegarasida bizdan oldin qoldirib ketilgan ishonchli talimotlar chirogi ostida harakatni boshlash kerak. Balki shunday harakatlar boshlansa, shu kutayotgan liderning chiqishi ham tezlaship qolar.
Le Monde gazetasining eski sonlaridan birida Ispaniyaning o'sha vaqtdagi lideri Jose Maria Asnar bilan suhbat bor edi. Shu yerda jurnalist "sizni ko'pchilik "xarizmasi, kuchli shaxsiyati yo'q lider" deb hisoblaydi. shunga nima deysiz" deb so'raydi. Jose Maria Asnar'ning javobi taqriban quyidagicha bo'lgand: " Xarizmatik, kuchli shaxsiyatli liderlar (De Gaulle kabi) tarixning eng notinch davrlarida, konfuziya ko'paygan va sistemalar buzilib ketgan davrda kerak boladi. Hozirgi Ispaniyada esa davomiy ishlab kelayotgan va pozitivligni isbotlagan sistema bor. Shuning uchun menda xarizmaning yo'qligi, mening o'z siyosiy burchimni bajarishimga zarar qilmaydi".

[SPECTACLE]

Musor ku bu odam

[Abu-Hafiza]

Meni gapimni ham maqsadimni ham tushunmadingiz.
Gayrioddiy deganim, Mahdiyni gayrioddiy demadim: balki gayrioddiy birlider kutishlik, ya'ni tarixda o'tgan Napoleon, de Gaulle, Xolid ibn Valid va shu kabi oddiy normalardan tashqariga chiqip ketgan va juda kuchli shaxsiyatga ega bo'lgan insonni kutib vaqtni o'tkazmaslik kerak demoqchi bo'ldim. bunday liderlar albatta kerak, bunaqa liderlar bo'lsa maqsad yolida bo'lgan yo'l ancha qisqaradi, lekin yillardan beri chiqmayotgan ekan, yana yillar davomida kutib vaqtni yo'qotmaslik kerak. balki agar bir guruh insonlar bazi narsalarni tushunib yetgan ekan o'z aql-qudratlari chegarasida bizdan oldin qoldirib ketilgan ishonchli talimotlar chirogi ostida harakatni boshlash kerak. Balki shunday harakatlar boshlansa, shu kutayotgan liderning chiqishi ham tezlaship qolar.
Le Monde gazetasining eski sonlaridan birida Ispaniyaning o'sha vaqtdagi lideri Jose Maria Asnar bilan suhbat bor edi. Shu yerda jurnalist "sizni ko'pchilik "xarizmasi, kuchli shaxsiyati yo'q lider" deb hisoblaydi. shunga nima deysiz" deb so'raydi. Jose Maria Asnar'ning javobi taqriban quyidagicha bo'lgand: " Xarizmatik, kuchli shaxsiyatli liderlar (De Gaulle kabi) tarixning eng notinch davrlarida, konfuziya ko'paygan va sistemalar buzilib ketgan davrda kerak boladi. Hozirgi Ispaniyada esa davomiy ishlab kelayotgan va pozitivligni isbotlagan sistema bor. Shuning uchun menda xarizmaning yo'qligi, mening o'z siyosiy burchimni bajarishimga zarar qilmaydi".

Men aytmoqchi bo'lgan gap shu edi, bo'lmasa imom Mahdiyning kelishlari haqida shubhamiz yo'q, alxamdulillah. Gaplarimni kontekstida va kalima-kalima va ayni onda boshqa kalimalar bilan boglab o'qimasez,shunaqa tushunmey qolib, biz aytmoqchi bo'lmagan gaplarni aytdi deb yurasiz.
Mahdiy haqida gap ketipti:
Mahdiy (yoki shunga uxshash bir shahsiyatni) ham hristyanlar, ham yahudiylar ham musulmonlar kutishmoqda:
Yahudiylar tavrotda aytilgan Masih hali kelmadi, deb e'tiqod qilishadi va uz masihini kutib yurishipti
Hristyanlar Iso (AS)ni qaytib kelishini kutib yurishipti
Musulmonlar Mahdiy hazratlarini kutib utirishipti

endi ushbu shahsiyatning farqi:
Yahudlarga ko'ra mahdiy g'ayrioddiy inson, payg'ambar va dunyo boshqaruvini yahudiylarga qozonadigan odam
Hristyanlarda Iso (AS) ularning ta'biri bo'yicha "Son of God" (astag'firullah)
Musulmon e'tiqodida bulsa, mahdiy oddiy odam, juda kuchlik lider, qobiliyatlik qumondon, mohir siyosatchi, mard lekin tarih buyicha keladigan yorqin namoyondalardan faqatgina biri. Endi musulmonlar hristyan va yahudlarning hatosiga kirmasdan (yani mahdiy kelar ekan, bizni qutqarar ekan deb kutib utiravermasdan) o'zlari harakat qilishlari kerak. Mahdiy kelmasidan ham dinni yoyish, ozodlikga intilish, Allohning so'zini dunyoda oliy bo'lishiga harakatlarida davom ettirishi kerak. Mahdiy hazratlarini kim ekanligini tarih o'zi ko'rsatadi. Kim bilar, balki Mahdiy hazratlari kelganlarida shu bizning musulmonlarning o'zi unga birinchi qarshi chiqar, bid'atchi, faloniy, pismadoniy, vahhobiy, sufiy deb. Lekin ohir oqibat u kishi jasorati bilan, aqli bilan musulmonlarni birlashtirishga qodir bular va BIENni aytib o'tgan shahsiyatlar kabi (Holid bin Walid, Salohiddin Ayyubiy va hokazo) islom ummatini yana muzaffar bulishiga jahd sarflar, buni biz bila olmaymiz.

[Al Gore]

O'zbekistonda demokratik jarayonlar bo'lishligi uchun mamlakatda siyosiy lider yetishmaydi, hozirgi sharoitda halq hech kimga ishonmay qo'ygan,IAK har qanday siyosiy qarashga oponentlarini tugatib bo'ldi,hozirgi holat O'zbekistonda Turkmabiston scenariysiga olib kelishi mumkin, muholifat IAK dan so'ng mamlakat tashqarisida qolish ehtimoli bor,chunki halqimiz ukrain, qirg'iz yo boshqa halqlar kabi o'z dil izhorini namoyishlar orqali ko'rsatishi amri mahol ko'rinadi,va diktator o'limidan sukut saqlashi mumkin,chunki Andijon voqealaridan so'ng mamlakatda halq harbiylardan nafratlansada lekin oshkora namoyish orqali chiqaolmaydi, O'zbekistonda IAK dan so'ng mamlakat SNB tamonidan tayilnlangan mahsus odam boshqarilishi mumkin,albtta Allohni o'zi rahmi kelib bandalariga O'zbekistonda halqning elkasiga oftob tegib,qashshoqlikdan, qiyinchiliklardan eson emon chiqib olsak shukurlardan degan bo'lar edik. Allohim bandalaringni mushkullarini oson qilgin!

[Fifi]

men aytmoqchi bo'lgan gap shu edi, bo'lmasa imom Mahdiyning kelishlari haqida shubhamiz yo'q, alxamdulillah. Gaplarimni kontekstida va kalima-kalima va ayni onda boshqa kalimalar bilan boglab o'qimasez,shunaqa tushunmey qolib, biz aytmoqchi bo'lmagan gaplarni aytdi deb yurasiz.

Ie, men olib tashlagan edimku yozuvimni, nega javob berdingiz.Bilaman,nimani nazarda tutganingizni shu uchun olib yozuvimni olib tashlagan edim.

[Gareeb]

offtop uchun uzr, chunki yahshi eshitmadim.

Oratorlik qobiliyati yuq ekan.
Daje Bush akamiz qoshlarini uchirib sayrab tashiydi.:lol:

Kimning oratorlik qobiliyati bor ekan: Karimovmi? Nazarboyevmi?

Bu odam oratorlik qilib aravani quruq olib qochmasdan bo'ladigan gapni aytgan qo'ygan.Oratorlikni esa ikkiyuzlamachilar, aldoqchilarga qo'yib qo'ygan menimcha.
Bir tarafdan xalqimizni xatosi ham shundaki chiroyli gaplar bilan va'dabozlik qilgan oamga ishonib ketaveradi, hoh u firibgar bo'lsin kallakesar bo'lsin farqi yo'q.
Chindildan ichi achiydigan odamlarga ishonmadyi.
Hay nima bo'lsa ham oxiri baxayr bo'lsin, yomg'irdan qochib qorga tutilmasak bo'lgani.

[Fifi]

Men eshita olmayapman, iltimos, aytganlarini qisqacha 1,2,3 deb yozib beringlar.

[VatanparvaR]

Endi bir gap. Xammani ishonchi komil, chetdan xech qaysi bir oppozitsioner kelib prezident bo'lib qolmaydi. Xammasi yig'ilib O'zbekistonga kelishsa xam bir-birining boshliq bo'lishiga qarshilar. Va qonunan ularning xaqqi yo'q. Chunki O'zbeksitonda yashamayotganiga 15 yildan oshib ketgan.

Shuning uchun, ularning shaxsiyati xaqida gapirsh, prezidentchilikka loyiq yoki yo'qligi xaqida bahslashishning foydasi yo'q.

Undan ko'rasi, O'zbekistondagi potensiali yuqori nomzodlar xaqida fikrlashish maqsadga muofiq deb o'ylayman.

[Fifi]

Endi bir gap. Xammani ishonchi komil, chetdan xech qaysi bir oppozitsioner kelib prezident bo'lib qolmaydi. Xammasi yig'ilib O'zbekistonga kelishsa xam bir-birining boshliq bo'lishiga qarshilar. Va qonunan ularning xaqqi yo'q. Chunki O'zbeksitonda yashamayotganiga 15 yildan oshib ketgan.

Shuning uchun, ularning shaxsiyati xaqida gapirsh, prezidentchilikka loyiq yoki yo'qligi xaqida bahslashishning foydasi yo'q.

Undan ko'rasi, O'zbekistondagi potensiali yuqori nomzodlar xaqida fikrlashish maqsadga muofiq deb o'ylayman.


1.Afsuski, men u kishi nima deganini eshita olmayapman.

2. O'zbekistonda hali shu kungacha qaysi bir qonun to'g'ri ishlabdiki, u insonlarni taqdiri hal qilishini kerak bo'lib qolgan bir paytda, birdaniga qonunlar ishlab ketar ekan. :-) Odamni kuldirmang taqsir. :)
3. Uzland O'yinda gapirib o'tdi, milliy birlik kerak deb. O'sha birlikni nima ulshab turadi degan savolni o'rtaga tashladilar. Hozir o'sha bir maqsad uchun bir yoqadan bosh chiqarish kerak. Farqi nima u 15 yildan beri yashayaptimi yo yo'qmi, asosiysi, u bizni odam, u -o'zbek, u millat kurashchisi, uning ham xaqqi bor u ham o'z hissasini ozmi ko'pmi qo'shayapti, U O'zbekistonda yo'q narsani ko'rdi, O'sha "salohiyati kuchli bo'lgan nomzodlar" ya'ni Siz ta'rif bergan insonlar, ko'rmayotgan narsani ko'rdi, G'arb demokratiyasini, adolatli jamiyatni, ibratli hayotni ko'rdi. Bu eng zarur va qimmatli tushunchalar. Bularni anglagan, ko'rgan insonlarni qadrlash kerak, hamda yana jipslashish kerak. Sen unaqa, men unaqa deb, tarqalishdan qochish kerak. Bu bizga tekka kasallik.
Yurt ravnaqi,kelajagi uchun ortiqcha his-hayajon va keraksiz ishlamaydigan qonunlarni chetga surib, birlashish kerak.

[Delf]

Народ! Хотите задать вопросы М. Солиху?

Если есть желание - можно его пригласить дать интервью форум.уз. Составим список вопросов - посмотрим как он на них ответит.


Delf.

[UzLand]

Народ! Хотите задать вопросы М. Солиху?

Если есть желание - можно его пригласить дать интервью форум.уз. Составим список вопросов - посмотрим как он на них ответит.


Delf.

Откройте тогда отдельный thread и кидайте все вопросы туда. Потом их надо привести в порядок и отправить ему.

[Delf]

Сначала надо спросить у М.Солиха, согласен ли он ответить на наши вопросы.

Delf.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Сначала надо спросить у М.Солиха, согласен ли он ответить на наши вопросы.

Delf.
A kto sprosit?

[UzLand]

Сначала надо спросить у М.Солиха, согласен ли он ответить на наши вопросы.

Delf.

Будут вопросы, он не откажется. Тем более это в его же интересах...Вы создайте thread, соберите вопросы, остальное - дело техники.

[UzbekGirlie]

I think the whole thing is crap and I dont think he has any qualities of a leader.Plus the guy is the worst public speaker ever and if he puts public to sleep while talking how is he planning to lead them... I could not listen to him anymore and must admit stoped the video half way through.

[UzLand]

I think the whole thing is crap and I dont think he has any qualities of a leader.Plus the guy is the worst public speaker ever and if he puts public to sleep while talking how is he planning to lead them... I could not listen to him anymore and must admit stoped the video half way through.

That's because you are very bias towards him. Because you are related to Jahongir Mamatov and JM hates MS. Well, actually this is very inherent to our opposition - to hate each other.

[forex]

That's because you are very bias towards him. Because you are related to Jahongir Mamatov and JM hates MS. Well, actually this is very inherent to our opposition - to hate each other.

Uzland,who is Jahongir Mamatov?Please shed some light,we are lost souls who are unaware of our "wannabe" leaders:lol:

[UzLand]

Uzland,who is Jahongir Mamatov?Please shed some light,we are lost souls who are unaware of our "wannabe" leaders:lol:

You don't want to know about him...a lost soul:) it's better be that way...even MS doesn't pretend to be so much of a patriot:)

[forex]

You don't want to know about him...a lost soul:) it's better be that way...even MS doesn't pretend to be so much of a patriot:)

I heard there are bunch of people in DC who get money and help people to get political asylum,they make up a case and help you get your residency for some lump money.They say all these parties do these kind of things,do you know anything about it?Maybe JM is related to this scheme as well;)

[UzLand]

I heard there are bunch of people in DC who get money and help people to get political asylum,they make up a case and help you get your residency for some lump money.They say all these parties do these kind of things,do you know anything about it?Maybe JM is related to this scheme as well;)

I have no idea. I know people do that but I can't point fingers to anyone...

[Professor]

I heard there are bunch of people in DC who get money and help people to get political asylum,they make up a case and help you get your residency for some lump money.They say all these parties do these kind of things,do you know anything about it?Maybe JM is related to this scheme as well;)
All America lives with this, forget about DC. Just whisper in NY I need a lawyer for the case, you'll surrounded by all ethnicity that God created. And don't speculate with JM.

[forex]

All America lives with this, forget about DC. Just whisper in NY I need a lawyer for the case, you'll surrounded by all ethnicity that God created. And don't speculate with JM.


what?Are you another advocate of JM?I am talking about specific people,the so called "opposition",what they do is get money from Uzbeks by making up cases for them or so I heard.

[Professor]

what?Are you another advocate of JM?I am talking about specific people,the so called "opposition",what they do is get money from Uzbeks by making up cases for them or so I heard.
forex...when JM did his job and was forced to leave Uzbekistan, maybe you used to enjoy laying in your craddle...so at least get your courage to fight with IAK openly and escape torture...then open your mouth, otherwise get the hell out of here with these words...:evil:

[UzLand]

forex...when JM did his job and was forced to leave Uzbekistan, maybe you used to enjoy laying in your craddle...so at least get your courage to fight with IAK openly and escape torture...then open your mouth, otherwise get the hell out of here with these words...:evil:

woooo, easy, man...may be JM was a great guy once...no more...and I don't think he is fighting IAK in any way...playing dirty against other people, not related to IAK is not called fighting IAK. I don't ascribe what he does to courage...what else does he have left for him? He just wants to be visible, an ego thing...I've heard a lot of stories about him from credible sources...

[Abu-Hafiza]

Video qolib Jahongir Mamatni tortishib utiripmizmi? Bizada maqol bor:
It huraveradi, karvon o'taveradi, degan. MS ham JM ham AP hamko'rinib turiptiki halqning dastagiga ega emas afsus. Bizning halq uje miyyasi yuvilib bulgan, MS-terrorist, JM-ig'vogar, AP=shpion, bir birini gushtini yeydi, muholifat bu halq dushmani, degan fikr uje alla qachon paydo bulgan halqimizda. Odamlar "yangi lider kerak" deyishmoqda, lekin usha "yangi lider"gayam tosh otishlar boshlanishi turgan gapligini hamma biladi.

Har birimiz biror bir ishga qul urib harakat qilmasak, hech baqo uzgarmaydi uzbekistonda lekin hehc kimni hehc narsaga harakat qilishligi yuqligi yaqqol kurinip uripti (bu yerda har hil gaplar yozishdan tashqari)

[ElNemo]

A kto sprosit?
a navenro mojno na ih sayt zabrosit voprosy uzbekistanerk.org - tam est kontakt us ili eshe chto?

[Professor]

woooo, easy, man...may be JM was a great guy once...no more...and I don't think he is fighting IAK in any way...playing dirty against other people, not related to IAK is not called fighting IAK. I don't ascribe what he does to courage...what else does he have left for him? He just wants to be visible, an ego thing...I've heard a lot of stories about him from credible sources...
hmmm......look into the mirror, what you have done and what he did? If he's doing smth. let the God to judge it....but we should have a manner to remember those good deeds of every person whether he's Stalin or IAK, not pouring trash over them. Nobody is perfect, including you. :)

[UzLand]

hmmm......look into the mirror, what you have done and what he did? If he's doing smth. let the God to judge it....but we should have a manner to remember those good deeds of every person whether he's Stalin or IAK, not pouring trash over them. Nobody is perfect, including you. :)

Professor, we are not talking about me, so relax. If anyone has to look in the mirror, it is your hero. And as for pouring trash over people, he is the perfect man for this job...

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Hmmda nima ham derdik...Muhammad Solih akamiz, voqe'likdan ancha uzoqda ekan...ya'ni u kishini ayblasham toghrimasdir...vatandan shuncha yil uzoqda bulgandan keyin halqning mentaliteti ozgarib ketganini tushunmasa ham kerak.

Mening kuzatishimga kura, watanda quyidagi ozgarishlar yuz bermoqda/bergan:

1) Uddaburon, ish bilarmon tabaqa vujudga kelgan, bular ish qilishni biladigan (joyi kelganda pora beradigan, kezi kelganda chet ellarga chiqib keladigan) tabaqadir.

2)Zamonaviy ilmga ega yoshlar tabaqasi. Ya'ni mana shu ishbilarmon tabaqaga logistic kumak berib turgan, korxonalarri yurghizvotgan yoshlar.

3) Yuqorida sanalgan ikkala tabaqa ichida Dinga qiziqadigan wa unga amal qiladiganlaram talaygina. Ammo ular Dinni Dowlat siyosatiga aralashtirmaydigan, uzlarining shaxsiy hayotida yurgizadigan, umuman dowlat tepasiga kelishni istamagan kishilar.

4) Huquq targhibot tabaqasi: Militsia, Milliy Havfsizlik, Mudofaa qushinlari, Prokuratura, Soliqchilar, Reviziya wa hokazolar. Bular yuqorida sanab otilgan Uddaburon tabaqani zulukday soriydigan wa dowlat mavjudligini ta'minlashga kamar boghlagan parazitlardir. Ya'ni bu tabaqa narvonning pastida turganlarri tepaga chiqishiga yul quymaydi. Yuqorida turganlar tashab turgan axlatddan ozuqa oladilar

5)Elita-Kursiy egalari tabaqasi. Mafia-qabilabozlik-jabhabozlik asosida tuzilgan klan. Xuddi Shaxmat uyinidagidek uyinlar...ammo bitta oyinchi, unga raqib oyinchi yuq. Har bitta "xod" potensial raqibbi Narvondan tepaga chiqishi uchun kerak wa zarur bulgan poyaga bolta urib uni parchalab tashlaydi. Kursiylar egalari...ozlariga qaram bulgan kishilardan ilojicha boricha urib qolishgan urunvotganlardir...wa mana shu kursiydan ketgungan qadar yuqorida sanab otilgan Ishbilarmonlar tabaqasiga orzumandlardir.

5)Jamiyatning tub tabaqasi-oqituvchi, doxtir, "pojarnik", dehqon, ishchi-mexanik, quruvchi, bozorlarda "chayqabozlik" bilan shughullanuvchi tabaqa...(aslida jamiat uchun muhim bulgan ashyollarri sotuvchi tabaqa) bu tabaqa ichida diniylashish kuchliroq.

6)Mafia tabaqasi...bular qadimdan bulgan...va ancha waqt hali davom etsa kk...bularri aniq funktsiasini hech kim bilmasa kk...zamonlari ozgarishi, xonlarri kelishi ketishi...ularri ziyofatiga halaqit bermaydi...

7)Dindorlar tabaqasi-Extremistlar, Mutadillar wa Ultra Mutadillardan iborat. Extremistlar-Ozbekistonda mavjud bulgan OIX, Hizbut-Tahrir wa boshqa guruhlar vakillari, qurolli yoki qurolsiz yul bilan markaziy osiyoda Shariat qonunlariga asoslangan Dowlat tuzish tarafdorlari. Mu'tadillar-yuqorida dinga moyil deb sanab otilganlar. Ultra Mutadillar-Milliy Havfsizlik bilan hamkorlikda ish yurituvchi Ozbekiston Muslimonlar Idorasi Boshliqlari. Ularri orasidayam...extremistlari bulgan...dawr taqozo qilib narigi tomonga otib qolishgan.

8)Rusiyzabonlar-Nostalgiada yurgan...yerli aholiga qoshilib ketishni hohlamaydigan, ozini ulardan madaniyatli, wa yerli aholini madaniyatsiz deb hisoblagan tabaqa. Bular ham tadbirkor wa ham Kursiydorlar tabaqasiga "logistic" kumak berish bilan kun kuradilar. Ular orasidagi ortacha malaka darajasi yerli aholi darajasidan yuqoriroq. Sovet tuzumi Rusizabon aholini boshqalardan ustun kurganligi, ushbu tabaqaning kuplab lgotalarga ega bulib qolishiga sabab bulgan...bular bilan doimo urchib yurgan chala ozbeklar esa...bugungi kunda elitaning kotta qismini tashkil qiladi...ni riba ni myaso deganlaridek...Elitaning Dashti Ozbek, Ichi Ruysizabon bulib qolishiga...sabab wa kumak berganlar ham ushbu tabaqadir.

Endi muhtaram Muhammad Solih sizga sawol:

Siz Jamiyatning or-nomusini, adabi-axloqini, dinini isloh qilish birinchi Islohot debsiz. Yuqorida sanab otilgan tabaqalarri birlashtirib turgan wa ularri yurghizvotgan motor bu $$$...xalqimiz, ancha mol parast bup qoldi...yani materialism juda kuchaydi??? Shuni nazarda tutib...qanaqa programma tuzvotsiz, wa hukumat boshiga kelish uchun Rusiya hukumati bilan Alyans tuzishga qiziqmayapsizmi? Chunki...Rusiada...Oppozitsiaga logistic kumak bergadihgan ancha talant bor? Siz ular bilan waqtinchalik nikohiga kirishishga tayyormisiz? Ular bn jangda yutilgan boylikki baham kurishga tayyormisiz?

Materializmning ta'mini totgan...tabaqani din bilan ovutib bulmasi...ularga siz Ovrupacha hayot vada bersaiz chalvotgan navoizga quloq tutishi mumkin...oshandayam...pir etib uchib ketishmaydi...ya'ni ular tashqaridan emas...ichkaridan chiqadigan liderri qidirishvotti...

U shunaqa liderki...Nazarboyevga oqshasin...wa IAK dan ham zukkoroq bulishi kk...Militsia wa Milliy Hafvsizlik bilan "marriage of convenience"ga kira oladigan, FAN, SAM-BUH, SUR-Qash wa hokazo klanlar bilan til biriktiradigan shaxsgina Alloh ol qulim desa...IAKni kursidan urush janjalsiz tushirib, u kishini nafaqaga chiqarib yubora olsa kk...a tak...boboy hali baquwwat...Allohim ol qulim desa...yana 20 yil dawronini surajak...vatanni gullatajak...!

[UzbekGirlie]

You don't want to know about him...a lost soul:) it's better be that way...even MS doesn't pretend to be so much of a patriot:)


And you think I am biased. I think you must be related to M. Salih cause you seemed to be speculating against any other oposition. So lets not point fingers and be hipocritical...

[Abu-Hafiza]

Where u get this idea. I am not sure. But i would not speculate as to who I am... All i said was he was a boring speaker. And no I am not bias. I dodnt agree with any of the ideas from oposition abroad, most of the time. I think their ideas are outdated. So please check you facts... And I do not appreciate you using this tone, as hate is a strong word. If he has anything better to say I will listen and I have heard him speak everytime he came to US. He is not a good public speaker. A good public speaker should be able to catch everyone attention and not put them to sleep. Biases has nothing to do with that. When he puts me to sleep i am unable to listen to his blaber. ANyways it is my opinion and you dont have to agree, but getting personal is something u dont do when u debate. Sign on weakness.

This is what you said:


I think the whole thing is crap and I dont think he has any qualities of a leader.Plus the guy is the worst public speaker ever and if he puts public to sleep while talking how is he planning to lead them... I could not listen to him anymore and must admit stoped the video half way through.


Getting personal? So you can get personal with whoever you want and others cant get personal with you then?

You have also mentioned that you are "political active" and act through "the party of your relative". As it is NOT MS I can only assume that you WOULD BE biased towards him. Anyways, I dont think you have any rights to insult MS even if you dont think that he is a good speaker (using words like crap) and I think ti poluchila po zaslugam ot UzLand'a

[UzLand]

And you think I am biased. I think you must be related to M. Salih cause you seemed to be speculating against any other oposition. So lets not point fingers and be hipocritical...

Actually, every person has a bias, but my conclusion derives from your much earlier post in which you said that of all opposition figures, JM was the smartest:)

I am not related to Salih at all and I never said he was a great speaker or politician. What I personally think of him is that he should be more in a second plan. They should find a young and charismatic person and MS should wholeheartedly support him. Because his personality may draw some people in, but at the same time it pushes them away too. So they need someone without a baggage.

But if you compare them all, MS has more clout in Europe and US and he is trying to do something. I do not recall BM, JM or AP of travelling overseas and giving a speech or meeting with European politicians or printing an actual newspaper or doing anything on YouTube:)

[Abu-Hafiza]

I do not recall BM, JM or AP of travelling overseas and giving a speech or meeting with European politicians or printing an actual newspaper or doing anything on YouTube:)
They do all that, apart from youtube i suppose otherwise why would people think that opposition hate each other? :D I do follow all that (as UzbekGirlie has delicately put it) crap of JM and AP about Erk and other opposition figures. They are very very politically active in kicking dirt on the face of other opposition figures :D

By the way, who is BM? :D

[UzLand]

They do all that, apart from youtube i suppose otherwise why would people think that opposition hate each other? :D I do follow all that (as UzbekGirlie has delicately put it) crap of JM and AP about Erk and other opposition figures. They are very very politically active in kicking dirt on the face of other opposition figures :D

By the way, who is BM? :D


Ex-Ambassador. In alliance with AP and JM now...

[VatanparvaR]

By the way, who is BM? :D

B. Malikov I would guess :)

[Abu-Hafiza]

Oh, i somehow forgot about him :lool:

[UzbekGirlie]

They do all that, apart from youtube i suppose otherwise why would people think that opposition hate each other? :D I do follow all that (as UzbekGirlie has delicately put it) crap of JM and AP about Erk and other opposition figures. They are very very politically active in kicking dirt on the face of other opposition figures :D

By the way, who is BM? :D


Politics is dirty. Like SM does not talk shit. I mean they all do and thats part of the game.

[UzbekGirlie]

B. Malikov I would guess :)


Is he an opposition? I did not know he was still involved in anything.

[UzbekGirlie]

Ex-Ambassador. In alliance with AP and JM now...


Where did you hear this? Wow i did not know.. Is this a speculation or fact? Curious...

[Abu-Hafiza]

Politics is dirty. Like SM does not talk shit. I mean they all do and thats part of the game.
I repeat, WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE, if you claim to be politician, act professionally

[UzLand]

Where did you hear this? Wow i did not know.. Is this a speculation or fact? Curious...

Go to JM's site. He interviews BM about MS for obvious purposes and they together attack MS. If you think JM is a good journalist then he should have stayed away from the dirt while asking questions, but he was himself adding oil to fire...as far as I know JM was a "felyetonchi" and he remained that way..never turned into a real journalist...specialist on "yumaloq xat":) He asks himself questions and answers them himself:)

[UzLand]

I c where you coming from. And as far as oposition I dont think anyone abroad should be qualified to lead it. I think opposition should come within.

Bingo. You are right. If you look at Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine and Georgia, that is exactly what happened - the inside opposition took over. But travelling abroad is a plus because this is how you promote yourself and your group overseas. An outside support wouldn't hurt.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Well, in Iraq the outside opposition took over :lool:

[NifTy-Nix]

Well, in Iraq the outside opposition took over :lool:
And do we see any change for good, in either Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, Ukraine, or Iraq to that effect? Don't forget about Afghanistan, outside people (not even opposition) took over. ;)

[UzbekGirlie]

Go to JM's site. He interviews BM about MS for obvious purposes and they together attack MS. If you think JM is a good journalist then he should have stayed away from the dirt while asking questions, but he was himself adding oil to fire...as far as I know JM was a "felyetonchi" and he remained that way..never turned into a real journalist...specialist on "yumaloq xat":) He asks himself questions and answers them himself:)


I guess this is your opinion and you are entitled to it. And my opinion was the opposite. Good thing we live in a free world where we alowed to be different. I respect what you think and you should respect the fact that I do not like SM and think he is not worthy of time... Agreed?

[UzbekGirlie]

And do we see any change for good, in either Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, Ukraine, or Iraq to that effect? Don't forget about Afghanistan, outside people (not even opposition) took over. ;)


I countries such as mentioned above and Uzbekistan it will take time to reform the government. We need a new mentality, new blood to run it. I think it will take two governments before we even begin getting anywhere.

[Abu-Hafiza]

I countries such as mentioned above and Uzbekistan it will take time to reform the government. We need a new mentality, new blood to run it. I think it will take two governments before we even begin getting anywhere.
What 2 governments?
What new mentality? Can you clarify?

[Abu-Hafiza]

kelinglar, shu odam hech siyosatga aralashmasin... ahir bu odamni Uzbekistondan hiqib ketganiga qancha bo'gan? and the regulations does not allow him to become PR anyway.

say somehow he gets the position then what is he gonna do? will he just be West's muppet and play in the hands of big ones in the west or will he change something?
I think it wil lbe very hard for any new leader of Uzbekistan not to be a puppet in the hands of the big guys, otherwise another regime change will be imminent.

[UzbekGirlie]

What 2 governments?
What new mentality? Can you clarify?


I mean the next two terms of governments - meaning two presidents will basically try and fix the problem but will not be able to. Too much mess not enough time or recources. If you look at any coutries history usually take time... So in my poinion the third one might begin achieving something.

We need new mentality- meaning fresh blood, young mind who understand our global politics and economy- different from what we have now and what opposition is offering. Educated and charismatic. No someone who would lead country into some religious government, or try to play a democratic god. Someone who will be able to find the medium.

[Abu-Hafiza]

I mean the next two terms of governments - meaning two presidents will basically try and fix the problem but will not be able to. Too much mess not enough time or recources. If you look at any coutries history usually take time... So in my poinion the third one might begin achieving something.

Wel, I think it is a little bit too early to judge on that as our current government is showing no signs of stepping down and we cannot even speculate on what the new government will be like. I hate comparing different countries, but I will do it in here, in post WW1 Germany or post war Japan it did not take 2 governments to improve things drastically. I personally hope that if our nation is given task, then many things can be achieved but on the other hand:


We need new mentality- meaning fresh blood, young mind who understand our global politics and economy- different from what we have now and what opposition is offering. Educated and charismatic. No someone who would lead country into some religious government, or try to play a democratic god. Someone who will be able to find the medium.
This is something that our nation lacks. Forget about opposition, even our smart, open minded, well educated forum users cannot agree in here. We have all that a country needs to develop, but unfortunately our attitude is hostile towards each other. You dont even need any enemy, the harm always comes from ourselves. I do think that we need a strong person but even the strongest person with the brilliant charisma and logical thought will be bush bashed by our people.

[UzbekGirlie]

This is something that our nation lacks. Forget about opposition, even our smart, open minded, well educated forum users cannot agree in here. We have all that a country needs to develop, but unfortunately our attitude is hostile towards each other. You dont even need any enemy, the harm always comes from ourselves. I do think that we need a strong person but even the strongest person with the brilliant charisma and logical thought will be bush bashed by our people.


Exactly... And this is why we need two government wait time... Usually helps people to understand that change is needed and they are willing to accept and somewhat change their mentality. But again it is my opinion and you dont have to agree.

[NifTy-Nix]

I countries such as mentioned above and Uzbekistan it will take time to reform the government. We need a new mentality, new blood to run it. I think it will take two governments before we even begin getting anywhere.
Two governtment changes will mean another I don't know how many years. We had a president who is ruling now for about 16 years ( I mean independent Uzbekistan), and he is still eager to stay some many more years. Let's say another 4 at least, which makes it 20, another 2 governments with these many years, will add to it another 40, imagine where would we be at that time, retired old people who once played government game in forum.arbuz.com? :lol:

[UzbekGirlie]

Two governtment changes will mean another I don't know how many years. We had a president who is ruling now for about 16 years ( I mean independent Uzbekistan), and he is still eager to stay some many more years. Let's say another 4 at least, which makes it 20, another 2 governments with these many years, will add to it another 40, imagine where would we be at that time, retired old people who once played government game in forum.arbuz.com? :lol:

But that is what might be needed to change the mentality... I mean unless the mentality is not changed reform is not going to happen. Again my opinion and I could be wrong, and future will show.

[NifTy-Nix]

But that is what might be needed to change the mentality... I mean unless the mentality is not changed reform is not going to happen. Again my opinion and I could be wrong, and future will show.
I don't see anything bad in our mentality. Our mentality support openness, hospitability, kindness, respect and other virtues. The habits, that's our biggest problem. One of the worst habits is following anything laid out as part of "culture". Some of them, drinking (excessively during any event), spending money (excessively on weddings, and etc), showing off (yani maqtanchoqlik), respecting someone for wealth and authority not for the cleverness or other good virtues, studying for the sake of getting a diploma, settling affairs by paying bribes (although no need to do so in all the cases) and etc etc. I acknowledge that some of the habits are getting into the mentality, but still I cherish our mentality and culture. We need to get rid of the negative sides of them, and that comes through education and proper upbringing.

[UzbekGirlie]

I don't see anything bad in our mentality. Our mentality support openness, hospitability, kindness, respect and other virtues. The habits, that's our biggest problem. One of the worst habits is following anything laid out as part of "culture". Some of them, drinking (excessively during any event), spending money (excessively on weddings, and etc), showing off (yani maqtanchoqlik), respecting someone for wealth and authority not for the cleverness or other good virtues, studying for the sake of getting a diploma, settling affairs by paying bribes (although no need to do so in all the cases) and etc etc. I acknowledge that some of the habits are getting into the mentality, but still I cherish our mentality and culture. We need to get rid of the negative sides of them, and that comes through education and proper upbringing.


I meant our political mentality...

[NifTy-Nix]

I meant our political mentality...
Do we have one? :rolleyes:

[forex]

forex...when JM did his job and was forced to leave Uzbekistan, maybe you used to enjoy laying in your craddle...so at least get your courage to fight with IAK openly and escape torture...then open your mouth, otherwise get the hell out of here with these words...:evil:

Professor,
you speak as if you fought against Karimov openly,were forced to leave Uzbekistan and escaped his tortures.
I have no reason to fight against our president,in fact,it's in my best interests that he stays at reign.You can say all you want,I couldn't care less.
Check out if your local institution has some anger management classes dude.

[Professor]

Professor, we are not talking about me, so relax. If anyone has to look in the mirror, it is your hero. And as for pouring trash over people, he is the perfect man for this job...
If I will be in favour of some of your posts...does it mean you're my hero?...authu'billah:lol: . Both of you in the states, but as far as I know he's not complaining about his life:) , so greediness makes people life more hard.
Black or White...this is the question. How's Jackson?

[Professor]

Professor,
you speak as if you fought against Karimov openly,were forced to leave Uzbekistan and escaped his tortures.
I have no reason to fight against our president,in fact,it's in my best interests that he stays at reign.You can say all you want,I couldn't care less.
Check out if your local institution has some anger management classes dude.
forex...open your eyes and mind more wider...We're talking about JM!!
Have you ever met him..if not...go on living your peaceful life with your favourite. He was offered more prestigious career path by IAK...but he chose another way. Mardga mard....**** ****** bulish kerak deydi halq. What he did in Uzbekistan.....you aren't able to do even in your dreams....too much place for your favourite:)
I wanna see your face having family and to be aware that you're in his top most-wanted list. :lol: Birovni orqasidan gapirganda bir oz erkakcha fikirlaylik!!!

[UzLand]

If I will be in favour of some of your posts...does it mean you're my hero?...authu'billah:lol: . Both of you in the states, but as far as I know he's not complaining about his life:) , so greediness makes people life more hard.
Black or White...this is the question. How's Jackson?

Re-read your post and if you got anything yourself, let me know...

[forex]

really,professor,do you even know what you are talking about?

[UzLand]

forex...open your eyes and mind more wider...We're talking about JM!! Have you ever met him..if not...go on living your peaceful life with your favourite. He was offered more prestigious career path by IAK...but he chose another way. Mardga mard....**** ****** bulish kerak deydi halq.

He was offered more prestigious career...:) Who told you? Him? He wasn't offered anything, that's why he got mad and left...

What he did in Uzbekistan.....you aren't able to do even in your dreams....too much place for your favourite:)

So what exactly did he do in Uzbekistan? Can he do the same now? Do not compare 1991 to 2006...1991 was a relative openness...hero is not the one who does things when the conditions permit, but the one who does when they don't permit...

Birovni orqasidan gapirganda bir oz erkakcha fikirlaylik!!!

That's exactly what your hero does all the time - talking behind peoples' back...through the website which he calls a website of an organization, but in fact he is the only one running that web page just like he made the VOA site his personal web-site when he worked there promoting his poems...

[Professor]

really,professor,do you even know what you are talking about?
does it seems as a crap?...that's the reflection of your words as well.

[Gareeb]

For god's sake, guys, write their names in full version pls.

Who is AP?
JM=Jahongir Mamatov
AP= Abdurahim Po'lat
MS=Muhammad Solih
BM=Bobur Malikov

[forex]

does it seems as a crap?...that's the reflection of your words as well.

I never even addressed to you.Why are you even sticking your nose into my words?I asked a legitimate question,I did not insult or accuse anybody.
Don't make a fool out of yourself more than you already have.

[Professor]

He was offered more prestigious career...:) Who told you? Him? He wasn't offered anything, that's why he got mad and left...
Any khokim or minister taken out of his job left Uzbekistan? What other funny stories you know man? There was a reson to leave.
So what exactly did he do in Uzbekistan? Can he do the same now? Do not compare 1991 to 2006...1991 was a relative openness...hero is not the one who does things when the conditions permit, but the one who does when they don't permit...
Your statement is same such as whether Hitler or Stalin can do the same thing now. Everione has his weight category, for child 10 kg, for elders 40 kg. You can't change law of nature, though it happens with some people:lol: :lol:
So during JM's residency in Uzbekistan his 10 kg is equal to present 40 kg.
That's exactly what your hero does all the time - talking behind peoples' back...through the website which he calls a website of an organization, but in fact he is the only one running that web page just like he made the VOA site his personal web-site when he worked there promoting his poems...
One more for blinds....he's not my hero. I'm focucing on him as a person/journalist and politician...thats it. If you have a personal hatred towards him, keep it with yourself. Do you know what's anti-ailising filter, to cut higher frequency components that we don't want to hear, so I visit all web-sites no matter who's the owner, but strictly following that filter system.

[Professor]

I never even addressed to you.Why are you even sticking your nose into my words?I asked a legitimate question,I did not insult or accuse anybody.
Don't make a fool out of yourself more than you already have.
Listen buddy...what the nonsense you're talking on, stop to be so naive and arrogant, look through to your posts, in 1st you're asking to enlighten you who's JM then suddenly you're accusing him of making up cases, what the foolish gestures you showed man!!!
Uzland,who is Jahongir Mamatov?Please shed some light,we are lost souls who are unaware of our "wannabe" leaders:lol:
I heard there are bunch of people in DC who get money and help people to get political asylum,they make up a case and help you get your residency for some lump money.They say all these parties do these kind of things,do you know anything about it?Maybe JM is related to this scheme as well;)
what?Are you another advocate of JM?I am talking about specific people,the so called "opposition",what they do is get money from Uzbeks by making up cases for them or so I heard.

[UzLand]

For god's sake, guys, write their names in full version pls.

Who is AP?

Associated Press :lool:

[UzLand]

Any khokim or minister taken out of his job left Uzbekistan? What other funny stories you know man? There was a reson to leave.

Your statement is same such as whether Hitler or Stalin can do the same thing now. Everione has his weight category, for child 10 kg, for elders 40 kg. You can't change law of nature, though it happens with some people:lol: :lol:
So during JM's residency in Uzbekistan his 10 kg is equal to present 40 kg.

One more for blinds....he's not my hero. I'm focucing on him as a person/journalist and politician...thats it. If you have a personal hatred towards him, keep it with yourself. Do you know what's anti-ailising filter, to cut higher frequency components that we don't want to hear, so I visit all web-sites no matter who's the owner, but strictly following that filter system.

Not once, repeat, not once have you given a solid argument in favor of your statements about him...you praise him to Heavens but not a single time could you tell us what he has done, why everyone should be proud of him or why he left...do you have that info or will you continue feeding us with some abstract, philosophical-like, but definitely not philosophical statements?

Zero substance...

[Abu-Hafiza]

UzLand, why do you hate your collegue so much? :lol: (I am not a particular fan of JM but reading your posts it seems like you hate him more then anyone)

[forex]

Listen buddy...what the nonsense you're talking on, stop to be so naive and arrogant, look through to your posts, in 1st you're asking to enlighten you who's JM then suddenly you're accusing him of making up cases, what the foolish gestures you showed man!!!

Reiterate myself,I have never addressed you.I asked Uzland to tell more about him.I see, you like to answer for other people.
Nowhere in my posts have I accused JM of anything.All I said is "maybe".
You have put yourself into a situation where you can not back up your words and at the same time can not go back.If you are so fond of this man,why don't you tell me what great things he had done while I was crawling under the table?
Better yet,just do yourself a favor and do not embarass yourself,stop ass kissing.

[Professor]

Reiterate myself,I have never addressed you.I asked Uzland to tell more about him.I see, you like to answer for other people.
Nowhere in my posts have I accused JM of anything.All I said is "maybe".
You have put yourself into a situation where you can not back up your words and at the same time can not go back.If you are so fond of this man,why don't you tell me what great things he had done while I was crawling under the table?
Better yet,just do yourself a favor and do not embarass yourself,stop ass kissing.
ass kissing you'll have in a honey-moon with your "thanks" distributor....got it?:)
And All you said is trash.
there's someone who is gey and it's known fact....so "maybe" doesn't apply for him. Saying maybe you're accepting some sort of prejudice that JM is involved in this case, you never met him and never met anyone who asked his favour for this case issue...so shut your mouth f**** up baby.
And I'm fond of anyone who did or at least tried to do smth. for Uzbekistan but not all trifles living with poor and false misconceptions.
JM is known in all political system of Uzbekistan, bad or good..doesn't matter..and who you are to talk who's bad or good? Let me know what's your name....and then we'll discuss what you did....otherwise keep hiding your name and stop bullshiting behind the curtains.

[forex]

ass kissing you'll have in a honey-moon with your "thanks" distributor....got it?:)
And All you said is trash.
there's someone who is gey and it's known fact....so "maybe" doesn't apply for him. Saying maybe you're accepting some sort of prejudice that JM is involved in this case, you never met him and never met anyone who asked his favour for this case issue...so shut your mouth f**** up baby.
And I'm fond of anyone who did or at least tried to do smth. for Uzbekistan but not all trifles living with poor and false misconceptions.
JM is known in all political system of Uzbekistan, bad or good..doesn't matter..and who you are to talk who's bad or good? Let me know what's your name....and then we'll discuss what you did....otherwise keep hiding your name and stop bullshiting behind the curtains.


myaxaxaxaxa,you are a ****ing joke.
You want to know my name?I will give you my name,I will reason with you anywhere/anyplace you want.And please,do not give me this childish trash here. "let me know what's your name",should I laugh my ass off?What exactly are you going to talk about,please tell me.Answer this one question,I want to know what you can do,you and your pseudo "almighty super JM".Go ahead,cough it up.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Calm down people. Everyone is entitled to love or hate someone but it shouldnt give anyone rights to insult those people or worse, insult each other. Professor, sizga yarashmagan gaplar qildingiz, forex, siz ham aynan shunday. Ne otpuskaytes' tak nizko iz za lyudey kotorih vi daje ne znaete please. One thing I am sure, neither JM nore MS or AP are people worth fighting ans swearing for.

[forex]

Calm down people. Everyone is entitled to love or hate someone but it shouldnt give anyone rights to insult those people or worse, insult each other. Professor, sizga yarashmagan gaplar qildingiz, forex, siz ham aynan shunday. Ne otpuskaytes' tak nizko iz za lyudey kotorih vi daje ne znaete please. One thing I am sure, neither JM nore MS or AP are people worth fighting ans swearing for.

I am not fighting for anybody,but I am not going to let anyone insult me,especially with empty threats.I have not insulted anybody and am not going to tolerate this kind of behavior.Period.

[Professor]

myaxaxaxaxa,you are a ****ing joke.
You want to know my name?I will give you my name,I will reason with you anywhere/anyplace you want.And please,do not give me this childish trash here. "let me know what's your name",should I laugh my ass off?What exactly are you going to talk about,please tell me.Answer this one question,I want to know what you can do,you and your pseudo "almighty super JM".Go ahead,cough it up.
I noticed in your mental capacity everything measured with your ass...how smart you're...can't you replace that word..or you've shortage of vocabulary or everything is associated with this part of body. Long live Mr **s:lol: :lol:
My name's JM, just for you to have a real fun..enjoy it **s. :)


P.S. Abu-Hafiza, thanks for the note, I know that the conversation style doesn't following the rules of ethics...but some people do like it.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Calm down people. Everyone is entitled to love or hate someone but it shouldnt give anyone rights to insult those people or worse, insult each other. Professor, sizga yarashmagan gaplar qildingiz, forex, siz ham aynan shunday. Ne otpuskaytes' tak nizko iz za lyudey kotorih vi daje ne znaete please. One thing I am sure, neither JM nore MS or AP are people worth fighting ans swearing for.
I am not fighting for anybody,but I am not going to let anyone insult me,especially with empty threats.I have not insulted anybody and am not going to tolerate this kind of behavior.Period.
I noticed in your mental capacity everything measured with your ass...how smart you're...can't you replace that word..or you've shortage of vocabulary or everything is associated with this part of body. Long live Mr **s:lol: :lol:
My name's JM, just for you to have a real fun..enjoy it **s. :)


P.S. Abu-Hafiza, thanks for the note, I know that the conversation style doesn't following the rules of ethics...but some people do like it.

OK, sorry I have intervened, carry on then

[UzLand]

ass kissing you'll have in a honey-moon with your "thanks" distributor....got it?:)
And All you said is trash.
there's someone who is gey and it's known fact....so "maybe" doesn't apply for him. Saying maybe you're accepting some sort of prejudice that JM is involved in this case, you never met him and never met anyone who asked his favour for this case issue...so shut your mouth f**** up baby.
And I'm fond of anyone who did or at least tried to do smth. for Uzbekistan but not all trifles living with poor and false misconceptions.
JM is known in all political system of Uzbekistan, bad or good..doesn't matter..and who you are to talk who's bad or good? Let me know what's your name....and then we'll discuss what you did....otherwise keep hiding your name and stop bullshiting behind the curtains.

You are warned for this post. If you can't argue, may be you should just be quiet. I've asked you to tell people here about JM's credentials and virtues. You didn't. Because you don't know?

[forex]

Uzland was right,I was much better off if I didn't know anything about JM.All I wanted is to get some insights into my question and dragged myself into some pointless discussion with idiot like Professor.
Kudos Professor,you have just proved that you are a "joker".

[Professor]

You are warned for this post. If you can't argue, may be you should just be quiet. I've asked you to tell people here about JM's credentials and virtues. You didn't. Because you don't know?
listen buddy...it's not you who will teach me how to argue, if JM still enjoys American life and standing in a good credebility then some who are on their knees crying for the support and wishing to return back, does it mean something to you. If anyone so thirsty about JM they will find any ifno whatever their hard drive will accept, I can't install mine.
His successive and better life makes other to suffer, he has shelter but not others, he has money and friends..but not others...so keep your greediness towards JM with yourself..dont show it in a public. It's not his fail to be more enterpreneur then you, just try to move your ass baby.
And enjoy your life...if there is still any access to it.

[Professor]

Uzland was right,I was much better off if I didn't know anything about JM.All I wanted is to get some insights into my question and dragged myself into some pointless discussion with idiot like Professor.
Kudos Professor,you have just proved that you are a "joker".
You wanna get some insights about JM from people who're makign up cases..what the hell JM is doing there, visit his web site or his office, if your intentions are serious, but you're bluffing on this topic. Take care bokkie. :)

[UzLand]

listen buddy...it's not you who will teach me how to argue, if JM still enjoys American life and standing in a good credebility then some who are on their knees crying for the support and wishing to return back, does it mean something to you. If anyone so thirsty about JM they will find any ifno whatever their hard drive will accept, I can't install mine.
His successive and better life makes other to suffer, he has shelter but not others, he has money and friends..but not others...so keep your greediness towards JM with yourself..dont show it in a public. It's not his fail to be more enterpreneur then you, just try to move your ass baby.
And enjoy your life...if there is still any access to it.


Again, regular BS, no substance...if he is sucessful, I am happy for him. I don't want anyone to be unsuccessful or suffer, especially in outside world. You are again preaching things about him, but has no knowledge yourself of what he has succeeded in...I advise that you change your nick...you are not even close to a 3rd grade student.

[UzLand]

You wanna get some insights about JM from people who're makign up cases..what the hell JM is doing there, visit his web site or his office, if your intentions are serious, but you're bluffing on this topic. Take care bokkie. :)

u got the number for his office?

[Professor]

Again, regular BS, no substance...if he is sucessful, I am happy for him. I don't want anyone to be unsuccessful or suffer, especially in outside world. You are again preaching things about him, but has no knowledge yourself of what he has succeeded in...
Actually I wanted to post what he did during IAK first precidency....then I realized whether it will make any sense for you since you're feeling hatred towards him. I think this is what he succeeded, you're hating him much...so there's a reason.
take care buddy

[Professor]

u got the number for his office?
well..home style office...you need?

[Abu-Hafiza]

Ok guys, the topic is actually Muhammad Solih: "Chiqish Yo'li". I urge you guys again to calm down. UzLand, I think you should leave it as well, ne nado dal'she etu temu razjegat', lets stick on MS rather then JM.

We blame opposition on insulting each other, but are we any different for that matter? Why dont we all just grow up? We dont have to reply to every single post no matter how insulting we find it. BITTA GAPDAN QOLINGLA MUSULMONLAR

[forex]

u got the number for his office?

myvaxaxaxa,that was a question of the year:lol:
Professor,not only your english is flawed but also your chain of logic is defective.You are not even following your words,you don't even know what I asked.
My advise,go cram the grammar book before you argue with people in a language not inherent to you.
I am out of this foolishness.

[UzLand]

Actually I wanted to post what he did during IAK first precidency....then I realized whether it will make any sense for you since you're feeling hatred towards him. I think this is what he succeeded, you're hating him much...so there's a reason.
take care buddy

I don't hate him. No reason. Do not mistake criticism for hatred. These are two different things. I did not use hate words or cursing...I am only criticising...I would love to know what he did during IAK's first presidency as long as you do not copy+paste from his book...but on the other side I am interested not in what a person was 15 years ago, but in what he is now...

[UzLand]

Ok guys, the topic is actually Muhammad Solih: "Chiqish Yo'li". I urge you guys again to calm down. UzLand, I think you should leave it as well, ne nado dal'she etu temu razjegat', lets stick on MS rather then JM.

We blame opposition on insulting each other, but are we any different for that matter? Why dont we all just grow up? We dont have to reply to every single post no matter how insulting we find it. BITTA GAPDAN QOLINGLA MUSULMONLAR

U r right...JM-people shu yerda ham diqqatni burvordi o'z tarafiga:)

[Professor]

You wanna get some insights about JM from people who're makign up cases..what the hell JM is doing there, visit his web site or his office, if your intentions are serious, but you're bluffing on this topic. Take care bokkie. :)
u got the number for his office?myvaxaxaxa,that was a question of the year:lol:
Professor,not only your english is flawed but also your chain of logic is defective.You are not even following your words,you don't even know what I asked.
My advise,go cram the grammar book before you argue with people in a language not inherent to you.
I am out of this foolishness.

Hey bossies, this is abnormal smile or sound...at least open your dagga eyes when you're typing, just look who posted that question. And think with your head but not with your favourite one:lol:
be attentive domkop defective Sherlock Holmes:)

[Professor]

U r right...JM-people shu yerda ham diqqatni burvordi o'z tarafiga:)
ha endi sizga qarab og'masak buldi :lol: maqsadiz anig'u

[UzLand]

ha endi sizga qarab og'masak buldi :lol: maqsadiz anig'u

Максадимиз - буюк келажак:)

[Gareeb]

Topic qolib maqtanchoqlik, shaxsiyatga tegishga o'tib ketiptku ba'zi odamlar

[Kiyovtura]

Манда очилмаяптику бу, умуман куриб
бумади? :(

[Jamaliy]

karam shorvani yigishtirib qoysak bolardi, ato keyin bazilarga qiyin boladi.

[Gareeb]

Ba'zi odamlar AP,MS wa JMlarni birlashmaslik,ig'vogarlik wa g'alamislikda ayblasada o'zlari ulardan besh battar gina-kudratchiligini bildirib qo'ydi.
Ana shunday "constructive tanqidchi"lardan Xudo asrasin.

[UzLand]

Ba'zi odamlar AP,MS wa JMlarni birlashmaslik,ig'vogarlik wa g'alamislikda ayblasada o'zlari ulardan besh battar gina-kudratchiligini bildirib qo'ydi.
Ana shunday "constructive tanqidchi"lardan Xudo asrasin.

Gareeb, кимни назарда тутганингизни билмайману, лекин фол очмасдан, эркакчасига очик гапираверинг. Бу ерда хаммаси узимизникилар...

[Abu-Hafiza]

Uzland.. You work for VOA dont you? I see why you dont like him now... Ha-ha. It all makes sense.
uzbekGirlie, can you share what made sense? If UzLand and JM were working for the company, why should they hate each other? Your comments would be appreciated.(may be i'm stupid, but i couldnt figure it out myself)

[UzLand]

Uzland.. You work for VOA dont you? I see why you dont like him now... Ha-ha. It all makes sense.

How long did it take you to come up with such a great idea? I never knew about JM until after I came here, but we never worked together. He left a year before me. And I never expressed even a slightest opinion about him or his work until he tested his "skills" on me...without ground, of course...so I must dissappoint you that your conclusion is shallow...

[Abu-Hafiza]

How long did it take you to come up with such a great idea? I never knew about JM until after I came here, but we never worked together. He left a year before me. And I never expressed even a slightest opinion about him or his work until he tested his "skills" on me...without ground, of course...so I must dissappoint you that your conclusion is shallow...
How was that? :)

[UzLand]

How was that? :)

I don't want to go into details.

[Abu-Hafiza]

I dont know why you seem to get angry very fast. You are a journalist and there is not need to get nasty because you dont know what conclusions i have made. I say this convo is over... Because as a journalist you seem to be very biast.
I would say that UzLand did control himself better then you did Girlie at least he didn tuse foul language like you did

[Abu-Hafiza]

Foul language?
words like sh*t and crap (in regards to a person) i consider that as a foul language

[Cobretti]

inolife
tori etasan, halq ishdan ko'ra, gapni ko'pro qiladi.

[UzLand]

I dont know why you seem to get angry very fast. You are a journalist and there is not need to get nasty because you dont know what conclusions i have made. I say this convo is over... Because as a journalist you seem to be very biast.

I don't know where you are getting this feeling from, but I am not angry. May be angry people see other people angry too:) I did not get nasty too. I am just trying to give arguments why I think JM is worse than MS - because MS doesn't wash dirty laundry in public. In last year's Helsinki Commission's hearing, too, AP related to JM, used that opportunity to attack MS - what a shame to use such an opportunity to attack other opposition people rather than promoting own group and common goals. MS didn't attack back which I think was a good move of him.

However this does not mean, as some people may think, I am endorsing MS. I've said a few times that he needs to step down, pick a young leader and support him.

[Abu-Hafiza]

You know what I am not going to even deal with this. Just not worth it.
And you are arrogant too :lool:

[Uyyonli]

You know what I am not going to even deal with this. Just not worth it.
I think your avatar has negative impact on people :lool:

[UzbekGirlie]

I think your avatar has negative impact on people :lool:

What u mean? Gwen Stephanie is negative? Interesting. Is it cause she looks nothing like Uzbek or is it cause she is a woman? Plus why are we talking about me. Again this thread is about MS and Uzbekgirlie...

[infolife]

inolife
tori etasan, halq ishdan ko'ra, gapni ko'pro qiladi.

:shock: bu meni postimga replymi?nik menikiga ohshayabdi shunga soraganim

men sizi tanimiman lekin Cobretti senlashizdan ja yaqin ovoribsiz:rolleyes:
yuqoridagi gappiyam aytib ham ulgurmagandim, qadan oldiz:rolleyes:

[Cobretti]

infolife
senlashsak hapa bo'lb qoganga o'hshayisiz,
manimcha hapa bo'lish keragi yo'q, mavzudan chetlashasiz,
mani postim esa oldingi o'qigan postlarga fikrim holos,
infolife'ni tilga olishim esa fikrlashi manga yaqin bo'gani uchundir.

[Ulug'bek]

Ming afsus, Muhammad Solih (MS)ning yoniga yaqinda kelgan bazi "do'st"lari, uni ham mayda gaplarga aralashtirishga erishibdilar ... :(

MSning yutuqlaridan biri yillar davomida aynan mana shunaqangi, egasi saviyasini ko'rsatuvchi, g'iybatlardan yuqori turolganida edi, mana endi uni ham bu balchiqqa tortishibdi...

Bu haqda Sizning fikringiz qanday?

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Камина шахсига ва сафдошларимизга қарши Совет даврида бошланган қоралаш кампанияси бугун ҳам давом этаяпти. Фақат қорабўёқчилар ўзгарди,тўғрироғи, уларнинг савияси жуда пасайиб кетди.Шу даражада пасайиб кетдики,уларга жавоб бериш ҳам инсонни ҳақоратлайди.Шу боис,узоқ йиллар давомида уларга жавоб бермадик. Совет даврида бизга қарши ёзилган "асар"лар бевосита Коммунистик партия бошлиқларининг буйруғи билан ёзиларди,ҳозиргилари эса,нари борса, Миллий Хавфсизлик Хизматининг бир бўлими плани доирасида ҳаракат қиладилар.

МХХ одам зотининг ғийбатни яхши кўришини билади.Ва ишини айнан шу заиф нуқтадан бошлайди,режим душманлари ҳақида ёлғон фактларни ўзининг агентлари воситасида омма ичига ёяди.Бу дезинформацияни ёлғонсевар кимсалар - худди ўлаксахўр қузғунлар каби - илиб олиб,халқ ичида тарқата бошлайдилар.Бу ўлаксахўр кимсалар, - МХХнинг маошсиз ишлайдиган кадрлари, - илҳом билан ишлайдилар,чунки бировни ғийбат қиларкан лаззатланадилар,бировга туҳмат қиларкан бахтиёрликдан шайтонлаган аёл каби ҳушдан кетадилар.

Афсуски,бу даҳшатли гуноҳдан узоқ туришга қодир бўлганлар озчиликда.Бу озчилик - Оллоҳдан қўрққанлардир.Оллоҳдан қўрққанлар бу дунёда оздир.

Бу даҳшатли гуноҳга ўртоқ бўлмаслик учун ғийбат уялари бўлган ўзбекча сайтларни ўқимайман ва сафдош биродарларга ҳам ўқимасликни тавсия этаман.Аммо яқинда сафдош укалардан бири баъзи туҳматларга жавоб беришим кераклигига мени ишонтирди.Чет элга чиқиб, руҳий мувозанатини йўқотиб қўйган баъзи кишилар кимнинг ким эканлигини билмайдилар ва интернетда чиққан ҳамма нарсани ҳақиқат сифатида қабул этадилар,уларга тўғри йўлни кўрсатиш ҳар бир мусулмоннинг бурчи алабатта.

Каминага ва ташкилотимизга қорабўёқ чаплаётганлардан биттаси бизнинг грант олиб буни халқ учун эмас,ўз эҳтиёжларимизга ишлатаётганимизни айтади, аммо бу грантни қаердан олганимизни кўрсатмайди,чунки исботи йўқ. Исботи йўқ,чунки ЭРК партияси ҳеч кимдан грант олгани йўқ.

Мухолифат номидан гапириб,туҳмат санъатида шайтонга дарс бериш даражасига етган иккита махлуқ бор.Улар сайт очиб,тўрт тарафига заҳар сочмоқдалар,аммо ўз заҳридан ўзи ҳалок бўлишларини хаёлига келтирмайдилар.

Булардан биттаси “Бирлик” харакати номини булгаб, каминанинг ҳукуматдан 2 та квартира олган деган туҳматни йилларча тарқатаяпти.Бу телбанинг кимлигини яхши биласизлар.Унинг интернетда очган сайтига қаранг,халқнинг дардига оид бирор мақола топаолмайсиз.Уни ва укасини Каримов 1996 йилдаёқ Ўзбекистонга қайтишига ижозат берган,аммо қайтмаяптилар,нега?

Каримов менга уй бермади,уйларимни олди, буни бутун халк билгани каби,фасодчи пасткашлар ҳам билади.

Ҳолбуки,уларининг уйи ҳам мусодара қилингани йўқ,қариндошлари ҳам қамалгани йўқ,нима сир бор бу ерда?

Мухолифатга алоқаси бўлмаган ҳолда,мухолифатчиман деб танитиб юрган яна бир кимса бор.Мафиячидан пул олиб, уни алдаб кетган бу фирибгар 1991 йилда Олий Кенгашда депутат бўлиб, Каримовга қарши гапирдим дея,қаҳромонликка даво қилиб юрибди Америкада.Аслида эса,1991 йилда Каримовнинг ўрнини олишни режалаштирган Шукрилла Мирсаидов Олий Мажлисдаги депутатларга мансаб тарқатар экан, бу фирибгар депутатга ҳам бир суяк ташлаганди."Энди Каримов ишдан кетадиган бўлди" дея севиниб,унга қарши гапириш журъатини кўрсатган номуссиз нусха эди у.Номуссиз,чунки Мирсаидов енгилгандан кейин Каримовнинг пойига тиз чўкиб, этагини ялаб,ундан "президент консултанти" мақомини олган нусха бу.Энди бу кимса шу даражага етдики,,каминанинг оиласини яхудий дейшгача борди бу одам.Бундай пасткашликни қандай кечириш мумкин?

Унинг ЭРК партияси пинжига кириб партиянинг пулларини ўғирлагани,машинасини сотиб егани ҳақидаги тафсилотларни бошқалар айтиб берар бир куни.

Унинг бу тубанликларини билганимиз учун бизга кини бор ва бутун ифлос ҳаркатларига мотор ҳам ўша кин.

Ўтган ойларда Даврон Шарипов тахаллуси била