Y-Chromosomes and Race Mixing

[2:216]

Assalomu aleykum
Internetda quyidagi maqolaga duch keldim. Hamma "Biz kimmiz?", "Navoiy qozo bo'lgan", "O'zbek degan millat yo'q" va shular kabi bema'ni va befoyda mulohazalarga (mavzularni aniq nomini esla olmadimu, lekin shunga o'hshash edi) nuqta qo'yadi degan umiddaman. Shahsan man uchun, o'zbemisan, qozomisan, tojimisan, oqmisan, qoramisan, piska koz'misan farqi yo'. Yahshi odam o'zga sayyoralik bolsa ham yahshi odam, yomon odamlar esa hamma millatda bor.
Maqolani manba'si: http://www.white-history.com/ychromo.htm
P.S. Maqolani eng muhim va qiziq joyi eng ohirida!!!

extracts from the article:

Appendix 2: Racial Mixing in Selected European Groups
Appendix 15: Y-Chromosomes and Race Mixing
Y-Chromosomes are that part of an individual's DNA which reflects the male lineage, passed unchanged from father to son. As such, it compromises a significant part of any nation's DNA. By analyzing the origin of Y Chromosomes, it becomes possible to determine the origin of the male side of a sample group...

...
Thus it cannot always be taken as a given statistic that always exactly one third of a Y-Chromosome reading will reflect a quarter of the total group's DNA structure. But, Y-Chromosomes will provide a good indicator, although final figures of overall racial ancestry can only be determined by combining mtDNA, Y-Chromosome and autosomal data.
Y-Chromosomes are however valuable because they can determine without question exactly what male lineages there are present in any sample group, and, by taking a third of the sample result, will provide an approximation of the total ancestry of that particularly Y-Chromosome within any given sample....

- Europeans comprise the following ’colors’: mauve, dark green (the mauve representing a strain dating back apparently to Paleolithic times, the green representing a ‘newer’ strain);
- Sub-Saharan and North Africans compromise mainly blue; (Sub-Saharan Africans are mainly HG 8 haplogroups, and North Africans are mainly HG 21 haplogroups - note that Nature combined the two for simplicity's sake).
- Middle Eastern (Semitic) compromise mainly light green and speckled blue;
- Asiatics compromise mainly orange, and light purple;
- Far Northern Asiatics (Lapps, etc.) compromise very light brown;
- Aboriginals and Pacific Islanders around Australasia compromise light purple and brown;
- North and South American Amerinds compromise mainly speckled red.


...
http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/piechart13.gif
Pie Chart “13” : The Russians. This pie chart shows a overwhelming majority European Y-Chromosome make-up, with a not insignificant Asiatic input, and then smaller Middle Eastern and sub-Saharan African input. This result is perfectly in line with historical developments in the region: the occupation by Asiatics (the Khanates in Southern Russia) and infiltration by Middle Eastern influences (which would have contained the sub-Saharan elements) during the Ottoman period, as outlined in March of the Titans chapter 40 (http://www.white-history.com/hwr40.htm).
http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/piechart16.gif
The Middle Eastern influence (light green) can also be seen clearly above in pie chart “16”, showing the population of Georgia in Southern Russia.



Other pie charts of interest: Africa, the Middle East and North India

http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/piechart14.gif
Pie Chart “14” – The Lebanese. Minority European, majority Middle Eastern and a significant proportion of sub-Saharan African.
http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/piechart15.gif Pie Chart “15” – The Iranians. Very similar to the Lebanese, and still containing a significant minority of European markers and fewer North African/sub-Saharan markers.
http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/piechart18.gif
Pie Chart “18” – The Punjabis: A significant White marker (mauve) present, entirely consistent with the input of the “old European” civilization of Harrapa (see chapter 4 (http://www.white-history.com/hwr4.htm) of March of the Titans).
http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/piechart19.gif Pie Chart “19” – The Uzbeks – A true cross roads of the world, with almost every race imaginable leaving an imprint.


http://www.white-history.com/ychromo_files/ychromo.gif

[Black]

I did not read the whole article, read only some lines. But from what I see on the map (if it is true), I can say Central Asians are one of the most (or simply the most) mixed nation in the world. That is what I thought always.

[MUHLIS]

Wow thanks for the link! It was very interesting!
Especially, I liked their comments about Uzbeks. :)

If we assume this study to be genuine, then it looks like 3 dominant chromosomes we have are:
1. European (mauve&dark green) around 35%
2. Asiatic (orange,light purple) around 20%
3. Middle Eastern (light green and speckled blue)15%

[melo]

Wow thanks for the link! It was very interesting!
Especially, I liked their comments about Uzbeks. :)

If we assume this study to be genuine, then it looks like 3 dominant chromosomes we have are:
1. European (mauve&dark green) around 35%
2. Asiatic (orange,light purple) around 20%
3. Middle Eastern (light green and speckled blue)15%


I don't understand the majority European background. I guess it depends how they determine what a european background is.

[learas]

Asian kamgina. Asosiy European. Evropaliladan farqimiz kotta shekilli.
Very interesting, thanks for post.

[MUHLIS]

I don't understand the majority European background. I guess it depends how they determine what a european background is.
I didn't understand it too, I generally assumed that Iranians would have more European determinant, but as it turns out from what they say Uzbeks and Punjabees have more of it than Iranians.
But what I understood was we have sort of "older" European chromosomes, probably Indo-European because we have more muave and less dark green:
Europeans comprise the following ’colors’: mauve, dark green (the mauve representing a strain dating back apparently to Paleolithic times, the green representing a ‘newer’ strain)

[MUHLIS]

Asian kamgina. Asosiy European. Evropaliladan farqimiz kotta shekilli.
Very interesting, thanks for post.
Why "kamgina"?, it is the second most dominant chromosome in our genes. Look more carefully.

[learas]

Why "kamgina"?, it is the second most dominant chromosome in our genes. Look more carefully.

I can see that it is the next to europeans. But we more look like asians than europeans. That's why I am saying that.
Moreover, if this chart is correct, it means that there were different males in beginning and that people were emerged in many locations of the world.

[learas]

One more point.
I did not read the passage completely, maybe there is an explanation. As from history americans are from europe. But their race marked different - red. This gives an idea that this chart can be incorrect. What u think?

[MUHLIS]

I can see that it is the next to europeans. But we more look like asians than europeans. That's why I am saying that.
Moreover, if this chart is correct, it means that there were different males in beginning and that people were emerged in many locations of the world.
I see. If we combine Asiatic, Far Northern Asiatic, Middle Eastern and North African chromosomes, they make up more proportion than what we have for European ones.
Moreover, native american pie (red) is also relatively big and if we combine all of the non-European pies, then our apparently dominant European chromosome will be left in sole minority.
But if we have categorize pies according to their size without combining, then European takes up the first place.
Truely unique and diverse genes we got. :)

[melo]

One more point.
I did not read the passage completely, maybe there is an explanation. As from history americans are from europe. But their race marked different - red. This gives an idea that this chart can be incorrect. What u think?


You did not read it. The people they are testing are not of euopean background, but instead are navajos, cheyennes, and mixtecs. They have european blood from the settlers that came. They were not testing white americans.

[learas]

Yeap MUHLIS. I am agree with your arguments ;)
What do u think of Americans in US? Why their color is not the same with europeans?

[learas]

You did not read it. The people they are testing are not of euopean background, but instead are navajos, cheyennes, and mixtecs. They have european blood from the settlers that came. They were not testing white americans.

I think I gotta read :)

[MUHLIS]

Yeap MUHLIS. I am agree with your arguments ;)
What do u think of Americans in US? Why their color is not the same with europeans?
I think, Native Americans are of Asiatic race rather than European. So it is not surprising that they are different from them.

[Frida]

confusing. who are the people they tested? how the sampling took place? is it some kind of "white-pride" stuff going on here? why the web-site is called white-history? what is their agenda here? if the study was so successful why isn't it published? and only hosted for free of charge on internet? and not even supported by different agencies and basically "surviving" for the donations throught interned (click here for donating $1 and $5 :shock: ) sounds like a cheap experiment to me. whatever.

[PainKiller]

confusing. who are the people they tested? how the sampling took place? is it some kind of "white-pride" stuff going on here? why the web-site is called white-history? what is their agenda here? if the study was so successful why isn't it published? and only hosted for free of charge on internet? and not even supported by different agencies and basically "surviving" for the donations throught interned (click here for donating $1 and $5 :shock: ) sounds like a cheap experiment to me. whatever.
Левый какой-то рисёрч. :)

[Shawn]

[LEFT]Assalomu aleykum
Internetda quyidagi maqolaga duch keldim. Hamma "Biz kimmiz?", "Navoiy qozo bo'lgan", "O'zbek degan millat yo'q" va shular kabi bema'ni va befoyda mulohazalarga (mavzularni aniq nomini esla olmadimu, lekin shunga o'hshash edi) nuqta qo'yadi degan umiddaman. Shahsan man uchun, o'zbemisan, qozomisan, tojimisan, oqmisan, qoramisan, piska koz'misan farqi yo'. Yahshi odam o'zga sayyoralik bolsa ham yahshi odam, yomon odamlar esa hamma millatda bor.
Maqolani manba'si: http://www.white-history.com/ychromo.htm

Siz ham bema'ni ma'qolangiz bilan boshni qotirmang. :) Qaysi nufuzli tashkilot tomonidan bu izlanishlar dunyo miqoyosida amalga oshirilgan ekan-a. :rolleyes:

[Frida]

Siz ham bema'ni ma'qolangiz bilan boshni qotirmang. :) Qaysi nufuzli tashkilot tomonidan bu izlanishlar dunyo miqoyosida amalga oshirilgan ekan-a. :rolleyes:

Kelinlar qo'zg'olonida aytadiku "Xo'rozqand chet-elniki desa, yotib yalaydi" deb :lol: shunga o'xshab, tadqiqotchining ismi Salim emas Steve, Barno emas Bob bo'lsa, universitet tupkaning tagida bo'lsa ham US deb yozilsa bo'ldi, tekshirishning nima keragi bor, zo'r ekan-a deb ishonib ketaveramiz. :shock:

[2:216]

Hey, hey to'htela. Agarda Ingliz tilini o'qishni bilganilada, Ingliz tilini yahshi tushunganilada, ikkita-uchta narsalani qidirib qarab ko'rib keyin gapiradigan bo'lganilada qandoq yahshi bo'lardi. Ammo afsuski ba'zi bir forum a'zolari (we won't mention any names and we won't point fingers) o'zligisi tushunib etmasdan tanqid qilishga usta. Ikkita-uchta ma'lumotlar o'sha (again no names, no pointing) forum a'zolariga:

1. The original paper is from "Nature Reviews - Genetics" journal. I found the article in white-history.com. If you would have read the article you would have seen the following lines in the article:
In the August 2003 edition of "Nature Reviews - Genetics" a full review of the importance of Y-Chromosomes was made: it is available at http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nrg/journal/v4/n8/full/nrg1124_fs.html for which a subscription is required. The full article can however be viewed here in PDF format (1.62MB) (source: http://www.white-history.com/ychromo.htm)

2. Prof. Mark A. Jobling is a professor of genetics at University of Leicester (credibly enough? no? :) Левый какой-то рисёрч masmi?? :)

3. Chris Tyler-Smith is a principal investigator for The Genographic Project - a research partnership of National Geographic and IBM. Familiar names?? I hope some terms are not too complex for some members to understand (no names, no pointing) :)

Qisqasi, dodamlar kichkinaligimda bitta narsa etgan edilar, hech esimdan chiqmaydi: bolam, bir narsaga ishonching yuz foyiz komil bolmasa hech qachon u narsa haqida bahslashmagin.

get you facts right, dear sceptics. Find out more about the subject matter of the argument before critising.

assalam aleykum

[MUHLIS]

I personally, did not try to discuss the credibility of the study, I just gave my thoughts about it. Even if the study is not perfect, it does reflect the reality to some extent, Uzbeks are racially mixed people, would you agree with that dear smart forumers?

[Sagittarius]

agar e'tibor bergan bo'lsangiz, qaysi millatda bor har-hil ko'rinishlar. eng yaqqol misol - O'zbeklarda.

so race is not an "uzbek" thing.

[bacha]

It is an interesting research, yet it is largely generalized. For example Uzbeks, I guess, even racially differ from one another. One part of Uzbeks may have more asiatic genes, the other more of european.

Another thing, can`t agree with punjabis or the usage of the word iranian. In Iran there are turkic, semitic ethnic groups and of course persians. When they say iranian, whom do the mean, or did they just mix everyone? If it is about persians, then it is very much true that they are more of middle-eastern people than european. What about large Turkish population of Iran?

There should be a lot more into this research.

[Sagittarius]

maybe that's why, we uzbeks are not racists???

but a bit(?) regionalist.

[melo]

confusing. who are the people they tested? how the sampling took place? is it some kind of "white-pride" stuff going on here? why the web-site is called white-history? what is their agenda here? if the study was so successful why isn't it published? and only hosted for free of charge on internet? and not even supported by different agencies and basically "surviving" for the donations throught interned (click here for donating $1 and $5 :shock: ) sounds like a cheap experiment to me. whatever.

In today's world it seems best to stay independent. To get published or sponsored I think you always have to compromise yourself. Although the name of the website did make me wonder. :lol:

[infolife]

maybe that's why, we uzbeks are not racists???

but a bit(?) regionalist.

sorry,no offence. Although am uzbek as well, I dont agree with that.

but what makes you say uzbeks arent racists?

good point- Uzbeks are racially very different from one another. It would be very difficult to give a description of a typical uzbek girl for example.
You can't simply say bugdoy rang,qora qosh,qora soch qotmadan kelgan...

[Vezunchik]

ya chital, chto shojie issledovaniya osushestvlenii na sshet Chingizhana, ili tochnee skolko v mire Lyudey s pryami`m genom Chingizhana. V mire okazalos 14 millionov. No v Mongolii jivut vsego lish 2.8 million lyudey!!! To est, poluchayetsya genotip bolshe chem titulnaya natsiya v etoy strane. No oni potom skazali chto u nih bi`lo bolshoee migratsiya v epohu Imperiy Mongolidov.

Togda poluchaeyetsya Vopros:
esli budim potdellnosti isskat geni` ili nositeley genov vseh Pravitely, to kolichestvo lyudey v Mire doljno bi`t bolshe chem 15-25 milliardov lyudey.
Ya eta k tomu, chto kakoy metod bi`l vi`vran i naskolko ono pravilno s tochki zrenii Zakri`tov Sistemi` ischesleniya?

No soglasen (da i vse naverono), chto Bi`li v mire 3 superbolshih i desyatki bolshih migratsiy chelovechestva, ne govarya uje ti`syacha malenkih migratsiy izza voin. Sootvetstvenno vse peremeshalis.


ON:
NO. est ochen prostoy metod analiza kto skolko i kak i s kem peremeshan.
Est prostoy zakon biologii i genialogii - Chem bolshe i chem koordinalni`e genotipov premesheniya, vossazdayetsya tem lutshiy i kachestvennoe Novi`y (ili assimilirovanni`y) Tip vida (v ramkah etogo je Vida).
To est, esli bolee prosto- Chem Krassivee i yarche Lyudi ili natsii, tem bolshe kolichestva i tem kardinalni`y proizishel peremeshenie!!!

Posmotrite na zerkalo, esli Vi` ochen krassivi`y, yarkiy, extrovagantni`y, i bez make upa Privleatelni`y chelovek - to v vashem krovi ochen mnogo kachestvenni`h izmeneniy!!!
esli eta ni tak, to ne pechaltes, vi` mojete sebya uteshit tem, chto v vashey krovi netu ili ochen malo peremesheniy, to est vi` imenno tot po natsionalnosti (ne smi`sle uzbek, rus, a kipchak, mangit, arab...), o kom vi` o sebe dumayete!!!!

[Shawn]

2:216 qizishmang. :) Agar mani ham nazarda tutgan bo'lsangiz, sizning 1-chi postingizga sarkastik qilib javob bergandim. Ya'ni boshqalar ochgan ba'zi threadlarni bema'ni deb tanqid qilganingiz uchun (man ochmagan bo'lsam ham), sizga ham shunaqa javob berdim. Postimda smilik belgisi turibdi. Maqolani o'qib chiqqanim yo'q. Chunki Frida aytganidek saitning nomi shubhali. Shubhali saytga kirib, u yerda "find out" qilsihga vaqt sarflagim kelmaydi. :) To'g'ri maqolaga link berish kerak edi. U yerda kim yozgani, qaerda chop etilgani ko'rsatilgan, ortiqcha savol ham tu'gilmasdi:
http://www.white-history.com/nrg1124_fs.pdf

[2:216]

2:216 qizishmang

Yo', bemalol, behijolat. Hech qizib ketayotganim yo'q, Hudoga shukr kondicionerim yahshi ishlidi :) Bular faqat mulohazalar, bahslar, men hech kimdan hafa emasman va hech kim mendan hafa emas degan umiddaman.

Agar mani ham nazarda tutgan bo'lsangiz, sizning 1-chi postingizga sarkastik qilib javob bergandim. Ya'ni boshqalar ochgan ba'zi threadlarni bema'ni deb tanqid qilganingiz uchun (man ochmagan bo'lsam ham), sizga ham shunaqa javob berdim. Postimda smilik belgisi turibdi

Tushunarli. Ammo kechirasizu, bitta narsade: shu forumga birinchi martta 2003 yilda a'zo bo'lgan edim (u vaqtlarda laqabim boshqa edi). O'shandan beri kamida bir oyda bir martta kim qanaqa millatligini talashishadi!!! Farqi nima????? Fakt to chto seychas vse mi Uzbeki, Tadjiki, Qazahi, Kirgizi i Turkmeni sidim v govne. Vmesto togo chtobi vihodit iz etogo govna vmeste, vmesto togo chtobi jid drujno i sotrudnichat, daje v akademicheskih krugah lyudi obsujdayut kem bil po nacionalnasti Amir Temur, bil li Navai uzbekom, ili otkuda prishli Uzbeki i t.d i t.p. . kakaya blin rasnica??? Amir Temur ili Ulugbek ili kto tam yesho nam ceychas ne pomogut!!! Nado dumat o nastoyashshem i budushem, a chto bilo v proshlom tolko Allah znaet. Shuning uchun ham ba'zi bir mavzularni befoyda va bema'ni deb bilaman.

Postimda smilik belgisi turibdi

ya, ya, don't worry brother, i noticed that.

Maqolani o'qib chiqqanim yo'q. Chunki Frida aytganidek saitning nomi shubhali. Shubhali saytga kirib, u yerda "find out" qilsihga vaqt sarflagim kelmaydi. To'g'ri maqolaga link berish kerak edi. U yerda kim yozgani, qaerda chop etilgani ko'rsatilgan, ortiqcha savol ham tu'gilmasdi:


Were you judging the book by its cover?? Cause you really are not supposed to do that.

[Shawn]

Were you judging the book by its cover?? Cause you really are not supposed to do that.
But knowing the the source is important!

[Shawn]

Tushunarli. Ammo kechirasizu, bitta narsade: shu forumga birinchi martta 2003 yilda a'zo bo'lgan edim (u vaqtlarda laqabim boshqa edi). O'shandan beri kamida bir oyda bir martta kim qanaqa millatligini talashishadi!!! Farqi nima????? Fakt to chto seychas vse mi Uzbeki, Tadjiki, Qazahi, Kirgizi i Turkmeni sidim v govne. Vmesto togo chtobi vihodit iz etogo govna vmeste, vmesto togo chtobi jid drujno i sotrudnichat, daje v akademicheskih krugah lyudi obsujdayut kem bil po nacionalnasti Amir Temur, bil li Navai uzbekom, ili otkuda prishli Uzbeki i t.d i t.p. . kakaya blin rasnica??? Amir Temur ili Ulugbek ili kto tam yesho nam ceychas ne pomogut!!! Nado dumat o nastoyashshem i budushem, a chto bilo v proshlom tolko Allah znaet. Shuning uchun ham ba'zi bir mavzularni befoyda va bema'ni deb bilaman.
I don't think it's gonna stop. It's natural that people try to know where they came from and their history. Faqat bunaqa narsalarni boshqa millatlarni kamsitmasdan ortiqcha hissiyotlarsiz diskussiya qilish kerak. Lekin siz aytgandek, bular eng muhim masala emas, ko'proq kelajak haqida qayg'urishimiz kerak.

[Tabriz_Han]

There are no seperate races, just the human race.
There are different tribes, clans and nations.

Therefore DNA and Nationhood are not connected, the two are seperate entities the only people it would matter to are racists who believe in nations having some form or racial purity.

The findings have been distorted, there is no "European", "Middle Eastern", "Central Asian" "gene", there are different genetic markers which came into being before the oldest living nation even existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Human_mtDNA_migration.png

Humans left Africa around 60,000 years ago, migrated to the middle east then near east then across central asia and the indian subcontinant and around the south pacific coast. Europe was in an Ice-age, migration to Europe occured later via "Central Asia".

The site creates confusion in calling certain genetic markers "European", the reason there are these genetic traits in Central Asian populations is because the migration to Europe was from this region.

R1a is associated with Europeans however, it occurs highest in Kirghiz Turks.


Genetics are usefull except when being used to determine "nationhood".

There are no "pure" nations, or nations which have their own unique genetics.

Oz'beks were a confederation of Turkic tribes, among them were also Turkified Mongol tribes, also there were Iranic populations living in Central Asia aswell.

The region of Turkistan has been the pathway of human migration, the flat steppes, rich abundance of foods and land made it attract the early humans. Its natural for there to be traits from many genetic markers.

Later peoples in the region developed a sense of nationhood, the Turks with their language, sense of identity, culture, history, tribes and clans etc the Iranics in the same way and so on.