Were marines forced to tell a lie or was it just a personal gain!!??

[SmIlIk]

All of us know the story involving 15 British sailors and marines. Following the information after Iran released the marines I was very upset hearing their allegations againts Iran stating that they were kept in isolation, in seperate rooms and psychologically tortured!? I thought world of Islam took another hard hit :( Following the news my husband and I were absolutely amazed by how human NAFS or just stupidity fighting for democracy in our muslim countries. These marines are representatives of their nation spreading peace around the world... What a PEACE, I should say. Kazzoblar!!!!!


New video shows Britons 'in comfort,' Iran says (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/09/iran.britain/index.html)

Briton says she feared Iran was preparing coffin (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/08/iran.britain.reut/index.html)


...But The Guardian newspaper said Turney had agreed to a joint deal with The Sun and ITV television for close to 100,000 pounds ($197,400), about four times her annual salary.

[melo]

Unfortunatley it is an answer we can never get. Both sides will always stick to their stories. The only ones who truly know are the captives and the ones that held them. Good luck getting a real answer from them. And both sides have very good political motives to stick to their stories.

[SmIlIk]

Unfortunatley it is an answer we can never get. Both sides will always stick to their stories. The only oes who truly know are the captives and the ones that held them. Good luck getting a real answer from them. And both sides have very good political motives to stick to their stories.
Wait a second, are you saying that the video of marines having fun is fake?

[melo]

Wait a second, are you saying that the video of marines having fun is fake?


No- but that does not mean that they were treated that way for the full time of captivity. In my personal opinion, after looking at the available evidence, I generally think Iran is telling the truth.

[Vezunchik]

Rebyata, mi` doljni` ponyat, chto To chto bi`lo snimi eta bi`lo v proshlom. A im nado dalshe jit. Esli oni ne skazali` eta, ih prosto uvolili bi` iz Armii. A oni ni chego krome etogo ne mogut delat.

Da esli bi` oni skazali inache, to Oni bi`li bi` Geroyami! Uvi` ot nih Geroyev Ne poluchilsya!

Oni ob`ichni`e tryapki! ktori`e hotyat dojit do pensii.

Zamette, tam vi`stupali ne vse. i v Londone i v Teerane. imenno eti Tryapki i tam i tam vi`stupali, to est 2 raza oblajalis.

Iran skoree prav. Irantsi` nichego s nimi ne delali, tak kak zaranee oni znali chto eti Tryapki kak razmennaya moneta. Ih predetsya vsyo ravno pomenyat na irantskogo Diplomata. Tak chto ne stoit ih muchat kak Guantanamo, oni ves mir potom mogli v golovu podnyat.
Poetomu GB seychas ne tak silno naprigayet Iran, chto on ih Muchal. Oni tipa slegka skazali, chtob sebya opravdat, mol oni pered diskomfortom vi`stupali pered Iranskim TV.

[SmIlIk]

Ребята, ми` долйни` понят, что То что би`ло сними ета би`ло в прошлом. А им надо далше йит. Если они не сказали` ета, их просто уволили би` из Армии. А они ни чего кроме етого не могут делат.

Да если би` они сказали иначе, то Они би`ли би` Героями! Уви` от них Героыев Не получился!

Они об`ични`е тряпки! ктори`е хотят дойит до пенсии.

Заметте, там ви`ступали не все. и в Лондоне и в Тееране. именно ети Тряпки и там и там ви`ступали, то ест 2 раза облаялис.

Иран скорее прав. Ирантси` ничего с ними не делали, так как заранее они знали что ети Тряпки как разменная монета. Их предется всё равно поменят на ирантского Дипломата. Так что не стоит их мучат как Гуантанамо, они вес мир потом могли в голову поднят.
Поетому ГБ сеычас не так силно напригаыет Иран, что он их Мучал. Они типа слегка сказали, чтоб себя оправдат, мол они перед дискомфортом ви`ступали перед Иранским ТВ.

Геори не герои, тряпки не тряпки, не помешало бы быть просто человеком. По Си-Эн-Эн показывают интервью этих британцев. Такое чувство, что никто их не заставлял делать и говорить что либо. Двое из тех британцев продали свои "истории" за очень даже хорошенкие суммы.

А, вот просто сказать, что все в прошлом я отнюдь не могу. То, что было в прошлом могло быть (в какой то мере так и случилось) очередным ударом по Исламу. А этого просто так забывать нельзя.

Thousands of shia muslims are protesting against US government and calling muslims of Iraq to unite and stop kiling each other. They are calling to fight their real enemy-US. Americans are getting offended by word "enemy", saying that they went to Iraq to build a solid country :lol: WHAT do you call a country who recked you so bad that it might take you over 50 years to recover (if you have the funds, that is to say), A FRIEND who is watching out for you when you are in NEED? :lol:

[Aziz]

there was a Shaikh in Egypt who used to say: God damn politics. Now I know what did he meant.

[Abu-Hafiza]

It is clear that british are lieing. The whole "horror" stories about the marines being almost tortured are to cover the clear fact that those marines were in clear violation of iranian borders. What would Britain do if 15 members of Iranian National Guards were found fully armed near the port of Dover? Would they just let them go free?

In army things dont run like in civilian life. You talk only when you are alowed to and you say only the things you are commanded to say. Ask Aaaaaaah, he should be an expert on that, so the words of those marines cannot be taken as facts. British forces have made up many stories. One of the most famoust ones of their fantazies is Andy MacNabs verson of operation Bravo two zero which was later on known that it was made up.

Now everyone needs an excuse to attack Iran so this story will play into hands of Americans. Everyone knows now (and everyone was sure even back then) that US has lied before attacking Iraq. WMD did not exist in Iraq and there was no terrorist connection of Saddam regime. So, the only excuse left was that US has toppled "the murderous tyrant, Saddam who has killed (maximum) 5,000 kurds in Halabja and (maximum) 148shiites in Dujail. Result:
Tyrant has killed 5148 civillians and imprisoned and tortured further 2000
The "libiration" of Iraq has killed 67015 (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/) people with unknown number of prisoners who are being tortured.

Another lie of Americans is the fact of the halabja killings as well. Right after the attacks:

Some debate existed, however, over the question of whether Iraq was really the responsible party. The U.S. State Department, in the immediate aftermath of the incident, instructed its diplomats to say that Iran was partly to blame.

A preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) study at the time concluded, apparently by determining the chemicals used by looking at images of the victims, that it was in fact Iran that was responsible for the attack, an assessment which was used subsequently by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for much of the early 1990s. The CIA's senior political analyst for the Iran-Iraq war, Stephen C. Pelletiere, co-authored an unclassified analysis of the war which contained a brief summary of the DIA study's key points. The CIA altered its position radically in the late 1990s and cited Halabja frequently in its evidence of WMD before the 2003 invasion.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack#Establishing_the_culprit
So I am sure that this story as it is will be used against Iran when US desides to strike it. It is sad that ordinary people will buy everything that they are being spoon-fed.

[melo]

It is clear that british are lieing. The whole "horror" stories about the marines being almost tortured are to cover the clear fact that those marines were in clear violation of iranian borders. What would Britain do if 15 members of Iranian National Guards were found fully armed near the port of Dover? Would they just let them go free?

In army things dont run like in civilian life. You talk only when you are alowed to and you say only the things you are commanded to say. Ask Aaaaaaah, he should be an expert on that, so the words of those marines cannot be taken as facts. British forces have made up many stories. One of the most famoust ones of their fantazies is Andy MacNabs verson of operation Bravo two zero which was later on known that it was made up.

Now everyone needs an excuse to attack Iran so this story will play into hands of Americans. Everyone knows now (and everyone was sure even back then) that US has lied before attacking Iraq. WMD did not exist in Iraq and there was no terrorist connection of Saddam regime. So, the only excuse left was that US has toppled "the murderous tyrant, Saddam who has killed (maximum) 5,000 kurds in Halabja and (maximum) 148shiites in Dujail. Result:
Tyrant has killed 5148 civillians and imprisoned and tortured further 2000
The "libiration" of Iraq has killed 67015 (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/) people with unknown number of prisoners who are being tortured.

Another lie of Americans is the fact of the halabja killings as well. Right after the attacks:


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack#Establishing_the_culprit
So I am sure that this story as it is will be used against Iran when US desides to strike it. It is sad that ordinary people will buy everything that they are being spoon-fed.

You still can't prove they were in Iranian waters or that they treated the marines properly. If you did we could put that on English tv. :D You are just assuming they are lying based on what you think they were planning to do.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Well, noone could prove they were NOT in iranian waters. Britain tried, but even our favourite Craig Murray refuted the claim (http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2007/03/british_marines.html) or read this (http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2007/03/captured_marine.html)

I think that the videos and photographs of british marines smiling and playing while in captivity proves that there was no Abu guraib style detention of british marines in Iran, no? Or were they forced to play tennis and chess and smile, even make fun on the camera?

[SmIlIk]

You still can't prove they were in Iranian waters or that they treated the marines properly. If you did we could put that on English tv. :D You are just assuming they are lying based on what you think they re planning to do.

If that was the case UK would bomb Iran for those 15 marines, like Israel bombed Lebanon because of one soldier. They were clearly in iranian waters, even if there is no proof for that. Does Iraq own any naval equipment or water warfare surfaces? If not what were brits doing there? There could be many answers but so far non of them were given as an explanation.

I understand it is all about politics but how dirty can it get at this point.

[Uyyonli]

You still can't prove they were in Iranian waters or that they treated the marines properly. If you did we could put that on English tv. :D You are just assuming they are lying based on what you think they re planning to do.
u makin me sick. U r brainwashed too? :lool:

[melo]

Well, noone could prove they were NOT in iranian waters. Britain tried, but even our favourite Craig Murray refuted the claim (http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2007/03/british_marines.html) or read this (http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2007/03/captured_marine.html)

I think that the videos and photographs of british marines smiling and playing while in captivity proves that there was no Abu guraib style detention of british marines in Iran, no? Or were they forced to play tennis and chess and smile, even make fun on the camera?

You need to look at it with an unbiased viewpoint. I was not there so I an not say if they were in Iranian or Iraqi waters. I am guessing you were not either. :D

And sure, they used to show American prisoners in Vietnam having fun sometmes too. That doesn't mean they were tortured or forced to make statements occasionally. ;) I am not saying this is what happened, but you would do a lot of things if someone was holding you captive. Even pretend to be having fun. Like I said- there is no difinitive proof either way. I already stated m bias before too based on what I thought was happening.

[melo]

If that was the case UK would bomb Iran for those 15 marines, like Israel bombed Lebanon because of one soldier. They were clearly in iranian waters, even if there is no proof for that. Does Iraq own any naval equipment or water warfare surfaces? If not what were brits doing there? There could be many answers but so far non of them were given as an explanation.

I understand it is all about politics but how dirty can it get at this point.

Well I think they were hoping they would keep the hostages and even kill them. This would really have given them the chance to attack Iran. Iraq does not have any naval forces that I know about, but they are receiving shipments in their ports. I believe their assignment was to check shipments coming into Iraq or ships entering Iraqi waters. Again, I am not saying they were not in Iranian waters, but it is not as obvious as you guys make it sound.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Jaguar, read the article of Craig Murray, the guy knows what he is talking about.

Besides, what was iran supposed to do when not once, but for the second time heavily armed british forces, the forces of the country that openly threatens Iran are acting as if shattal arab waters are their own property? After this crisis though british forces will think twise before carrying out any inter watter operations in shattal arab.

Besides Britain has failed to pinpoint the exact location of the marines during their arrest while Iran actually has shown its version.

[melo]

Jaguar, read the article of Craig Murray, the guy knows what he is talking about.

Besides, what was iran supposed to do when not once, but for the second time heavily armed british forces, the forces of the country that openly threatens Iran are acting as if shattal arab waters are their own property? After this crisis though british forces will think twise before carrying out any inter watter operations in shattal arab.

Besides Britain has failed to pinpoint the exact location of the marines during their arrest while Iran actually has shown its version.

I said before I am in agreement with you, but my opinion is not worth anything. All we really have is two countries saying the exact opposite of what happened without any proof.

As far as Craig Murray- he is a great self pomoter I guess. He is enjoying his fame as someone who always disagrees with the UK government (which would also incude the majoirty of the world's population). So you could say he has personal motives too. Just because he is English and a former government tool, doesn't mean he knows everything now either.

[Vezunchik]

Геори не герои, тряпки не тряпки, не помешало бы быть просто человеком. По Си-Эн-Эн показывают интервью этих британцев. Такое чувство, что никто их не заставлял делать и говорить что либо. Двое из тех британцев продали свои "истории" за очень даже хорошенкие суммы.

:lol:


Ih skoree ni kto i ne zastavil. Oni soldati` .
Im prosto skazali, chto im samim pridetsya vsyo nalajivat.Tipa , esli ne smogut mogut uhodit iz slujbi`. Eta kosvennoe davlenie, no ne primoe.

Vot oni i pi`tayutsya korchit is sebya Jertvu.

Pochemu ya skazal chto oni tryapki. Oni ne ohhranniki zavoda ili fabriki. Po zakonam Armii oni doljni` bi`li voevat i soprotivlyatsya, tak kak oni bi`li v slujebnoy, razvedivatelnoy ekspedeitsii. Eta oznachaet chto oni nesli ssoboy znachimoyu , voennuyu informatsiyu. oni ne soprotivlyaylis, znachit kak soldat oni tryapki.

Mi` doljni` znat, i razlichat , chto Soldat eta ne prosto Grajdanin. Oni ne imeet pravo obsujdat prikaz, i igart political game, chtob sohranit svoyu jizn. Esli oni prevratilis v sentimentalnih grajdan, to ih skoree cherez paru mesyatsev Uvolyat iz slujbi`. Soslujivtsi` i kommandiri` ih zagnayut.

Vot oni i gotovyatsya k obi`chnoy jizni i Dayut Konferentsii i sebe na pensiyu podrabati`vayut. Oni uje Artisti`.

On:

na sshet politiki GB or US.
Kogda oni schitalis Islamskom mirom? Kogda Islamskom mire sami lyudi ne schitayutsya sami soboy. posmotrite film "Zov k Umme" , tam est horoshiy vopros:
"Kuran ne poslan vam, chtob ego chitali nad Umershimi" , "..Gde atom bomb Pakistan, armiya Saudi, Indonezii....?" . To est , tam sprashivayut kogda vi` nachnete sebya uvajat, i kak vi` otvetiti Tam?
Mi` sami vinovati` vo vsem. Jadnost, Bogatsva, Vi`sokomerie, Separatizm... nas pogubit.

Poetomu, dumayu nado nam stat Obrazovanni`mi , kulturni`mi i silni`mi, i nauchitsya zashishat sebya, a ne predavat, v kajdoy udobnoy sluchaii. I ne dumat vsegda o vi`gode materialnom.

[PainKiller]

They are soldiers serving the Britain. How can one expect them to speak up against their own country? Plus, we have no idea what these people have been through. Captivity is captivity.

[Black]

Another Torture story, but this time by Iranian diplomat.

Iranian diplomat details U.S. abuse accusations (http://islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=13011)

An Iranian diplomat released last week after being kidnapped in Iraq gave a detailed account of torture he suffered at the hands of his captors, who included U.S. officials.

Jalal Sharafi, the second secretary at Iran’s embassy in Baghdad, said earlier this week that he was subjected to torture "day and night" by his captors.

On Thursday, he gave reporters a detailed account of beatings and interrogations, including being whipped on his feet with cables.

The press conference came a day after the head of the International Red Cross in Tehran said he saw wounds on the diplomat’s body.

Sharafi, who attended the news conference in a wheelchair and was accompanied by medical staff, told reporters that a U.S. official was present while his captors tortured him.

The Iranian diplomat was abducted in February and was released last Tuesday, a day before the Iranian government freed 15 British sailors and marines who illegally entered its waters, raising speculation that his release was part of a deal to free the Britons.

But both the UK and Iran denied any connection between the two cases.

“Mock executions”
Looking thin and weak, Sharafi said he was kidnapped from a Baghdad street by people who had “Iraqi defense ministry ID cards.”

"They tied my feet and hands and lashed my soles hundreds of times with cables and kicked and punched me," Sharafi said, showing traces of slash marks on his back.

"They performed mock executions while my eyes were blindfolded and my hands and feet were bound,” he added.

The 40-year-old diplomat said an American official had been present when he was tortured on his feet with what felt like an electric drill.

"When I regained consciousness, the person who came to me clearly introduced himself as an American,"

"But since I didn't speak English, I was using an Arabic translator,"

"At different stages, he told me this man had connections to the U.S. embassy and was directly responsible for me."

Sharafi also said that the "American began with a soft attitude at first. But turned harsh when he could not get any cooperation from me."

"He (the American) threatened to kill me by bites of wild dogs,"

"They wanted me to confess that Iran intervenes in Iraq's domestic affairs and was a threat to the countries of the region," the diplomat said.

Earlier this week, Sharafi told Iranian state media that his captors were agents of an Iraqi unit working under CIA supervision. He also said that they had questioned him mainly about Iran's alleged influence in Iraq and its assistance to Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's government and Iraqi resistance groups.

Torture trauma
A psychiatrist at the press conference told journalists that Sharafi was continually reliving the trauma of his torture and had been badly affected by sleep deprivation and solitary confinement.

On Wednesday, the head of the International Red Cross in Tehran said he saw wounds on Sharafi’s feet, legs, back and nose.

Although Peter Stoeker confirmed that the wounds took place during Sharafi’s detention, he said he was unable to say if the scars were the result of torture.

One correspondent who attended the Tehran press conference also said there were visible scars on Sharafi’s feet and ankles.

The United States denied any involvement in Sharafi’s abduction or release, and the Iraqi government said that it doesn’t know who had held the diplomat.

Diplomatic tensions remain high between the U.S. and Iran over the detention of five Iranians by U.S. occupation forces in the Iraqi city of Irbil last January.

Washington claims that the Iranians are aiding the Iraqi resistance. But Tehran insists that they have diplomatic status.

Iran’s Deputy Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi suggested on Wednesday that Tehran may boycott a conference on Iraq next month unless the five Iranians are released.

"We have reminded Iraqi officials that until the time of the Iranian diplomats' release, Iran's attendance in any conference on Iraq, should the U.S. attend, would encounter problems and barriers," Araghchi was quoted as saying by the Kayhan newspaper.

[Guardian]

I was expecting British MP to admit the fault the marines did, and apologise publicly.Shame on Britain.

[SmIlIk]

Soldiers should have dignity. They are soldiers noty spys or politicians of any sort. If you say so, with the same success you can forgive and forget what happened in Andijan, I can't.

I am sure those British soldiers were not forced or mearly asked to tell a lie. They were just looking out for themselves thinking they can make a lot of money by telling their "stories".

Vezunchik, by any means soldier must obey rules when matter becomes "national security". One can obey the rules and shut up (if he has a decency to do so) or instead he can go public to sell his dignity with falsified story.

[Abu Hurayra]

All of us know the story involving 15 British sailors and marines. Following the information after Iran released the marines I was very upset hearing their allegations againts Iran stating that they were kept in isolation, in seperate rooms and psychologically tortured!? I thought world of Islam took another hard hit :( Following the news my husband and I were absolutely amazed by how human NAFS or just stupidity fighting for democracy in our muslim countries. These marines are representatives of their nation spreading peace around the world... What a PEACE, I should say. Kazzoblar!!!!!


New video shows Britons 'in comfort,' Iran says (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/09/iran.britain/index.html)

Briton says she feared Iran was preparing coffin (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/08/iran.britain.reut/index.html)
Kazzob Kofirlarning ishlari hardoim yolg'onlar ko'z bo'yamachiliklar bilan bo'lani uchun baribir yolg'onlari bir kun emas bir kun fosh bo'ladi...
Bugungi kunda Media ularning eng katta quroli. Musulmonlarning eng katta xatosi esa Fosiq, kofirlarni xabarini tekshirmay turib ularni qabul qilib darrov o'z brodarlarini yomonga chiqarishlaridir....

[Uyyonli]

It is clear that british are lieing. The whole "horror" stories about the marines being almost tortured are to cover the clear fact that those marines were in clear violation of iranian borders. What would Britain do if 15 members of Iranian National Guards were found fully armed near the port of Dover? Would they just let them go free?

In army things dont run like in civilian life. You talk only when you are alowed to and you say only the things you are commanded to say. Ask Aaaaaaah, he should be an expert on that, so the words of those marines cannot be taken as facts. British forces have made up many stories. One of the most famoust ones of their fantazies is Andy MacNabs verson of operation Bravo two zero which was later on known that it was made up.

Now everyone needs an excuse to attack Iran so this story will play into hands of Americans. Everyone knows now (and everyone was sure even back then) that US has lied before attacking Iraq. WMD did not exist in Iraq and there was no terrorist connection of Saddam regime. So, the only excuse left was that US has toppled "the murderous tyrant, Saddam who has killed (maximum) 5,000 kurds in Halabja and (maximum) 148shiites in Dujail. Result:
Tyrant has killed 5148 civillians and imprisoned and tortured further 2000
The "libiration" of Iraq has killed 67015 (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/) people with unknown number of prisoners who are being tortured.

Another lie of Americans is the fact of the halabja killings as well. Right after the attacks:


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack#Establishing_the_culprit
So I am sure that this story as it is will be used against Iran when US desides to strike it. It is sad that ordinary people will buy everything that they are being spoon-fed.
As-Salamu Aleykum. thanks for putting me into this :-D What u said about western military is true. Western brainwash is also the stronges amongst the military pesonal. This incident reminds me of the Korean incident whe U.S spy ship was captured among with 134 sailors. U.S said tha sailors were tortured and after like 8 month or so survivors before the reliese were shaved, cleaned up and were all in good shape.
But if u think of Sailors to be getting torured is not a big deal. Hell if some N.Koreans was cought in U.S waters, U.S with no doubtes would torturing and be trying to get some sensetive info too ;) that's how it work. Who cares about intruder. If I was the Iranian Guard I would have lid them all up.:cool:

[Uyyonli]

Soldiers should have dignity. They are soldiers noty spys or politicians of any sort. If you say so, with the same success you can forgive and forget what happened in Andijan, I can't.

I am sure those British soldiers were not forced or mearly asked to tell a lie. They were just looking out for themselves thinking they can make a lot of money by telling their "stories".

Vezunchik, by any means soldier must obey rules when matter becomes "national security". One can obey the rules and shut up (if he has a decency to do so) or instead he can go public to sell his dignity with falsified story.
If I was told to spy I would do so. It is an order, be it be spying mission or be it be reconnaisence. So it goes both way if I was British sailor I would'nt tell the public that I was treated nice if my orders were to tell lies I would because it is part of the countries' mission :)

[Uyyonli]

I was expecting British MP to admit the fault the marines did, and apologise publicly.Shame on Britain.
It would be great shame to make his own country and their own fine military look stupid. No shame ...