Qirg'izistonda anarxiyami, demokratiyami?

[UzLand]

Text:

http://www.voanews.com/uzbek/2007-04-13-voa1.cfm

Audio:

http://www.voanews.com/mediaassets/uzbek/2007_04/Audio/wma/4A0FDC97.wma

[Inspiredmind]

Text:

http://www.voanews.com/uzbek/2007-04-13-voa1.cfm

Audio:

http://www.voanews.com/mediaassets/uzbek/2007_04/Audio/wma/4A0FDC97.wma


“Demokratiya chaqaloqqa o’xshaydi. O’z rivojlanish bosqichlari bor. Qirg’izistondagi voqealar normal demokratik jarayondir.” pochti shunga o'xshagan so'zni aytaman degan e'dim ,, u'je jurnalistlar aytib koyibdi,,,:D
yani "zachatki demokratii est anarhiya"

shu savolga politologiya darsida javob berolmaganman, then 4 olganman,,YANI "MAT' DEMOKRATII CHTO ? DEGAN SAVOL BO'LGAN...", then prepod "aharhizm" degan.....ehhheeee, yashasin Kirg'izistonim!!!!. AK MONGULUUUU ASKO TOOLOR TAALALAR....(KG'S GIMNIDAN PARCHA....LOL:D )

[UzLand]

“Demokratiya chaqaloqqa o’xshaydi. O’z rivojlanish bosqichlari bor. Qirg’izistondagi voqealar normal demokratik jarayondir.” pochti shunga o'xshagan so'zni aytaman degan e'dim ,, u'je jurnalistlar aytib koyibdi,,,:D
yani "zachatki demokratii est anarhiya"

shu savolga politologiya darsida javob berolmaganman, then 4 olganman,,YANI "MAT' DEMOKRATII CHTO ? DEGAN SAVOL BO'LGAN...", then prepod "aharhizm" degan.....ehhheeee, yashasin Kirg'izistonim!!!!. AK MONGULUUUU ASKO TOOLOR TAALALAR....(KG'S GIMNIDAN PARCHA....LOL:D )

Энди анархистлар хам хар хил буларканда...демократияни тан оладиган ва тан олмайдиганлари...

"Some anarchists oppose democracy while others favor it. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon argued that the only acceptable form of direct democracy is one in which it is recognized that majority decisions are not binding on the minority.[3] However, anarcho-communist Murray Bookchin criticizes individualist anarchists for opposing democracy[4], and says "majority rule" is consistent with anarchism.[5] There are also some anarchists who expect society to operate by consensus.

The notion of direct democracy, or participatory democracy, is very common to many anarchist movements, especially in libertarian communism, as a form of organizing and management based upon consensus, collective action, freedom and responsibility. This goes with the fundamental anarchist principle of denying authoritarian or alienating organizational structures."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Anarchist)

[Inspiredmind]

Энди анархистлар хам хар хил буларканда...демократияни тан оладиган ва тан олмайдиганлари...

"Some anarchists oppose democracy while others favor it. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon argued that the only acceptable form of direct democracy is one in which it is recognized that majority decisions are not binding on the minority.[3] However, anarcho-communist Murray Bookchin criticizes individualist anarchists for opposing democracy[4], and says "majority rule" is consistent with anarchism.[5] There are also some anarchists who expect society to operate by consensus.

The notion of direct democracy, or participatory democracy, is very common to many anarchist movements, especially in libertarian communism, as a form of organizing and management based upon consensus, collective action, freedom and responsibility. This goes with the fundamental anarchist principle of denying authoritarian or alienating organizational structures."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Anarchist)
sizga savol, siz o'zingiz nima deb oylaysiz? anarhiyami or demokratiyani bir boshlang'ich e'tapimi? ... yana bir savol,,, uzbni hozirgi tyrgan politicheskiy rejimi yaxshimi or kgda har hil tinchlik ravishda bolayotgan noroziliklar yaxshimi?

[krokobazuka]

Kyrg - another victim of colour revolutions. Teper' u nih kajdiy den' mitingi budut... Snachala narod nado nakormit potom demokratiyu davat'.

[melo]

Kyrg - another victim of colour revolutions. Teper' u nih kajdiy den' mitingi budut... Snachala narod nado nakormit potom demokratiyu davat'.

Color revolution? Lola isn't a color that I know about :lol: . What is the big difference between anarchy in Kyrgyzstan and total control in Uzbekistan? For what its worth it seems that normal people seem to favor the anarchy.;) All the lack of stability in Kyrgyzstan hasn't seemed to affect the normal population's normal lives as far as I hear.

[Arhimed]

odamlar mitingga chiqaverib ahiri charchagandan keyin kamayadi bunaqa narsalar

undan tashqari qirg'izlarda urug'chilik va mahllaliychilik kuchli

[Delf]

Народ выходит на митинги потому что народ недоволен проводимой политикой, т.к. данная политика не приводит к улучшению экономического состояния народа.

У меня вопрос к тем, кто против митингов: так что, народу надо молча все терпеть и ничего от правительстсва не требовать?


Delf.

[UzLand]

Одного не пойму. Некоторые люди хотят, чтобы переход от одной системы (авторитарной) к другой (более-менее открытой) состоялся плавно. Не бывает так. Особенно, если люди не привыкли жить в свободном обществе. Митинги, протесты, недовольства - все это нормальное явление...это эволюционное развитие...

Те, кто думают, что одной революцией можно решить все проблемы, ошибаются. Грузия, Украина, Кыргызстан...пришли новые люди, управляют по-новому, у людей менталитет старый, нужно, чтобы они привыкли к новой системе, новому образу мышления...главное, чтобы не допускалось насилие...чтобы, все было в рамках закона...

В Кыргызстане одна опасность: деление на северян и южан...это может привести к расколу страны...

[Al Gore]

islohotlar uchun muholifat imkon berishi kerak hukumatga,lekin men Qirg'iziston lola inqilobidan so'ng Oshda bo'lganman, mamlakatda qonun ustivor emas,poraho'rlik avjiga chiqqan, bosh boshtoqlik hukim surmoqda, demokratiya deb hamma nima istasa qilaverayapti, ayniqsa militsiya, bojhona, harbiylar postlarda istaganni oladi, hujjatizdan ayb topsa, bo'ldi, hali Qirgizlarni bir tartibga tushishiga bor, baribir halq bizni halqimizdan ko'ra erkin hohlagan gapini qonun doirasida aytaoladi, so'z erkinligi uchun hech kimni hech kim jazolamaydi!

[Inspiredmind]

Одного не пойму. Некоторые люди хотят, чтобы переход от одной системы (авторитарной) к другой (более-менее открытой) состоялся плавно. Не бывает так. Особенно, если люди не привыкли жить в свободном обществе. Митинги, протесты, недовольства - все это нормальное явление...это эволюционное развитие...

Те, кто думают, что одной революцией можно решить все проблемы, ошибаются. Грузия, Украина, Кыргызстан...пришли новые люди, управляют по-новому, у людей менталитет старый, нужно, чтобы они привыкли к новой системе, новому образу мышления...главное, чтобы не допускалось насилие...чтобы, все было в рамках закона...

В Кыргызстане одна опасность: деление на северян и южан...это может привести к расколу страны...


e'to ne est e'voluysionnoe razvitie, a naoborot revolusionnie....

delenie na severyan i yujan toje ne bol'shaya opastnost',,,vesdi est mestnichestbo..troybalizm chto li, esli ya pravilno nazval termina...

[Inspiredmind]

islohotlar uchun muholifat imkon berishi kerak hukumatga,lekin men Qirg'iziston lola inqilobidan so'ng Oshda bo'lganman, mamlakatda qonun ustivor emas,poraho'rlik avjiga chiqqan, bosh boshtoqlik hukim surmoqda, demokratiya deb hamma nima istasa qilaverayapti, ayniqsa militsiya, bojhona, harbiylar postlarda istaganni oladi, hujjatizdan ayb topsa, bo'ldi, hali Qirgizlarni bir tartibga tushishiga bor, baribir halq bizni halqimizdan ko'ra erkin hohlagan gapini qonun doirasida aytaoladi, so'z erkinligi uchun hech kimni hech kim jazolamaydi!

siz yaxshi narsalarni yozibsiz,,, kak bydto uzbtonda or boshka SNG davlatlarida porahorlik avjga chikmagandek,,,

[UzLand]

e'to ne est e'voluysionnoe razvitie, a naoborot revolusionnie....

delenie na severyan i yujan toje ne bol'shaya opastnost',,,vesdi est mestnichestbo..troybalizm chto li, esli ya pravilno nazval termina...

да вы революцию уже прошли....хуже уже не будет

[Vezunchik]

kak mojno govarit pro Democratiyu , kogda lyudi ni to chto ne ponimayut chto eta takoe, oni daje ne hotyat.
Vi` chto dumayete tam, na mitenge lyudi ponimayut i osoznayut zachem stoyat????
Commmmmon ....
Zabudte pro etot chuj!!! eta tolko dengi.
Eti ti`syacha chelovek ne znayut chto oni tam delayut, oni znayut odno, to chto, Chem bolshe dney oni budut stoyat im stolko i zaplatyat. Eta kak rabota. Ne ujeli vi` verite chto oni satli politicheski gramotni`mi za 2 goda.
Vi` chto nikogda ne obshalis s kirgizami.
Ya vstrechalsya stolko vi`sokopostavlenni`mi i gramotni`mi Kirgizami. Ya uveren tam 70-80-e godi`. Ponyatki detskie. Gorni`e.


Oni teper dumayut chto vi`hodit na mitingi modno i bezopasno, i vi`godno.

Zavtra esli u 2-h pokzatelno sprosyat po TV chto oni hotyat , to togda ves mir uvidet chto tam etot opozitsioner prosto kupil ili tochnee orendoval ih na neskolko dney. Podumayte sami Etot opozitsioner iz odnoy teleshki s Prezidentom. Etot tolpa god nazad hodil na mitingi za prezidenta. I chto, eta lyudi chem segodnya ne dovolni`?? v etoy starne tolko etot Opozitsioner segodnya ne davolen. narod daje ne ponimayet chto tvoritsya.

[UzLand]

Vezunchik,

конечно люди сразу не поймут. Откуда же им понять, если до этого у них не было такой возможности. Зато они начинают понимать намного лучше, чем люди в Узбекистане. Преобразования сравнительно безболезненно проходили в Восточной Европе и то потому, что у них был стимул войти в ЕС и ЕС помогал в установлении демократии. В ЦА такого стимула нет и тем более мы окружены недмократическими странами, то есть среда тоже играет роль.

Но думаю, если Кыргызстан не распадется, то они со временем поймут как жить в демократии. Ведь молодежь их это демократическое поколение.

[Demir Kağan]

Kyrgyzs got used to it. They can't live if they don't do a revolution every year.

[Delf]

Одного не пойму. Некоторые люди хотят, чтобы переход от одной системы (авторитарной) к другой (более-менее открытой) состоялся плавно. Не бывает так. Особенно, если люди не привыкли жить в свободном обществе. Митинги, протесты, недовольства - все это нормальное явление...это эволюционное развитие...

Те, кто думают, что одной революцией можно решить все проблемы, ошибаются. Грузия, Украина, Кыргызстан...пришли новые люди, управляют по-новому, у людей менталитет старый, нужно, чтобы они привыкли к новой системе, новому образу мышления...главное, чтобы не допускалось насилие...чтобы, все было в рамках закона...

В Кыргызстане одна опасность: деление на северян и южан...это может привести к расколу страны...

Надо смотреть и учиться как переход происходил в таких странах как: Южная Корея, Латвия, Литва, Эстония, вся Восточная Европа, ЮАР.


Delf.

[Vezunchik]

Vezunchik,

конечно люди сразу не поймут. Откуда же им понять, если до этого у них не было такой возможности. Зато они начинают понимать намного лучше, чем люди в Узбекистане. Преобразования сравнительно безболезненно проходили в Восточной Европе и то потому, что у них был стимул войти в ЕС и ЕС помогал в установлении демократии. В ЦА такого стимула нет и тем более мы окружены недмократическими странами, то есть среда тоже играет роль.

Но думаю, если Кыргызстан не распадется, то они со временем поймут как жить в демократии. Ведь молодежь их это демократическое поколение.

Kogda Democratiya prevrashayetsya v Anarhiyu, gde kajdi`y god odni i te je lyudi vi`hodyat na mitingi i neprivodya chetkih Pretenziy stoyat i ustrayivayut Party of Demoracy ostalnaya chast naseleniya budet ottalkivatsya ot etoy "Democratii". A ETA i est, to chto nujno Diktatoram, chtob dobitsya svoey Diktaturi`. Oni budut govarit "Mi` privnesem v etu stranu Poryadok, mi` dadim narodu Spravidlivost, mi`, tochnee YA budu garantom vsego nailutshego, chto vi` zaslujivayete...". To est, doljno bi`t mera vsego, i ne nado zloupotreblyat instrumentami Democratii. U nih uje bi`lo perevorot, oni dobilos Kardinalni`h izmeneniy. Teper neobhodimo bi`lo ostalnoe prodvigat cherez parlament ili ispolzovat drugie instrumenti` politicheskoy tehnologii. Revolyutsiya kak narkoz, nelzya zloupotreblyat.
Esli oni zloupotrblyayut i povtaryayut kajdi`y god, znachit oni ne ponimayut chto eta takoe. Eta uje anarhiya.
Na sshet Vostochnoy Evropi`. Da effect tsivilizovannoy Democratii v EU eta bi`l horoshiy orientir. I esho nemalovajno, tam narod ne menyal kajdi`y god svoi orientiri`. Oni ne borolis za kogoto (chto proishodit v Kirgizii) , oni borolis za Svobodu ot SSSR. Potom oni uje ne uchastvovali v polit-tusovkah. Oni ostavili eta svoim politikam. A delegirovali ih ili vliyali na politiku cherez Vibori`.
Tak kak, politika eta Sfera politikov ot vi`borov do vi`borov. Esli tolpa uchastvuyet vsyo vremya, to ona kogda ni bud prevratitsya na Instrument politikov, moneta v ih rukah.

Posle Raspada vse stali uchastvovat v politike, v itoge vo mnojestve nashih gosudarstv k vlasti prishli Lyudi, kotori`e v posledstvii stali Diktatorami. tak kak, narod uje stal instrumentom politikov (kogda esho nichego neponimayushiee studenti` i kolhozniki vi`shli na ploshadi) i pozvolil im stat Diktatorami.

Dlya Azii Democratiya eta ne lutshiy variant. U nas sistema tsennostey drugoy, mi` emotsionalni`, u nas est bolshoy nedostatok, bolshoy balast- mnojestavo detey i perepletennost s sotsiumom (okrujayushey sredoy, tipa mahalla, tanish bilish). A eta meshaet Lyudyam v samopojertvennosti. Aziata legko napugat, nado vsego lish nameknut chto ne ego, a ego semye, detyam, rodstvennikam budet Figova. Vsyo , on posle etogo Politicheskiy Impotent.
A v zapade takogo balasta ne tak uj mnogo, da i sistema tsennostey toje drugoy. Protestant bolee Democratichen , chem Katolik. A katolik, chem Aziat..., Aziat chem Afrikanets...

Dlya Azii lutshe semes Democratii i Diktaturi`. Jelatelno konechno, chtob Diktator imell bolee relligiozni`y, spravidlivi`y i gumanni`y Mi`shlenie. No eta ochen bolshoy Redkost! Uvi`.

Za vsyu istoriyu chelovechestva normalnaya Democratiya bi`la tolko v dervnem Gretsii i Rime, no tam bi`la pravila, v Politike (vi`borah i debatah) uchastvuyut tolko gramotnni`e , vzrosli`e i "beli`e" (Soslovie) lyudi. Oni ne dopuskali v politiku negramotni`h, jenshin (kotori`e , obi`chno politicheski negramotni`), bedni`h (kotori`e toje ne razbirayutsya v Politike) i drugih. To est, oni Govarili pravo Vi`bora - eta ne pravo vseh, eta izberatelnaya prava!

Ya za Koreyskuyu i Yaponskuyu Diktaturu, v kotorom Diktator imeet pravo na vsyo, krome OSKORBLENIYA i UNIJENIYA svoego NARODA. I pri etom ON doljen bi`t sam Umni`m chelovekom, ili pokraynem mere dolji`n umet Slushat Umni`h Sovetnikov.

ON:
Na sshet kirgizii ya ne optimisticheski smotryu na ih budushee. Segodnya ih "Laskaet" US i uje posldnee vremya Rossiya, no v skorem budushemm imi zaymetsya Kitay. Tak kak, eta natsiya (kirgizi) ne imeet istoricheskih korney Gosudarstvennosti. Net v sisteme tsennostey u kirgizov mesto dlya Samosoznaniya Gosudarstvennosti kak i u kazahov. No kazahi eta zameshayut (uspeshno, mejduprochim) Dengami, Ambitsiyami i popi`tkoy sozdat Image of State.

[Delf]

kak mojno govarit pro Democratiyu , kogda lyudi ni to chto ne ponimayut chto eta takoe, oni daje ne hotyat.
Vi` chto dumayete tam, na mitenge lyudi ponimayut i osoznayut zachem stoyat????
Commmmmon ....
Zabudte pro etot chuj!!! eta tolko dengi.
Eti ti`syacha chelovek ne znayut chto oni tam delayut, oni znayut odno, to chto, Chem bolshe dney oni budut stoyat im stolko i zaplatyat. Eta kak rabota. Ne ujeli vi` verite chto oni satli politicheski gramotni`mi za 2 goda.
Vi` chto nikogda ne obshalis s kirgizami.
Ya vstrechalsya stolko vi`sokopostavlenni`mi i gramotni`mi Kirgizami. Ya uveren tam 70-80-e godi`. Ponyatki detskie. Gorni`e.


Oni teper dumayut chto vi`hodit na mitingi modno i bezopasno, i vi`godno.

Zavtra esli u 2-h pokzatelno sprosyat po TV chto oni hotyat , to togda ves mir uvidet chto tam etot opozitsioner prosto kupil ili tochnee orendoval ih na neskolko dney. Podumayte sami Etot opozitsioner iz odnoy teleshki s Prezidentom. Etot tolpa god nazad hodil na mitingi za prezidenta. I chto, eta lyudi chem segodnya ne dovolni`?? v etoy starne tolko etot Opozitsioner segodnya ne davolen. narod daje ne ponimayet chto tvoritsya.

Понятное дело что из всех кто там собирается в политическом устройстве государства разбираются немногие. Но среди них есть лидеры, которы не только разбираются в различных моделях демократии, но и четко представляют, какую модель они хотят строить в Кыргызстане. А большинтсво собравшихся полагается на их знания и честность. Бакиев подвел всех и не выполнил обещаний - пусть уступит кресло другому. Тот если тоже подведет - в отставку. Нечего кресло занимать.

Президентское/премьерское кресло не принадлежит какой-либо особе, оно предоставляется чтоб данный человек делал полезное, а не злоупотреблял для обогащения себя и своих родственников.


Delf.

[Frida]

Dlya Azii Democratiya eta ne lutshiy variant.

Nu vot tak i budem sidet' dal'she togda v zh****. "Eto nam ne po plechu, eto nam ne nravit'sya, eto nam ne podhodit. U nas drugiye plani razvitye, i tp. i td." Karoche, mi luchshe budem golodat', bedstvovat', budem ubivat' svoih zhe zemlyakov, no my gordo, kak ORLY --- budem iskat' svoy put' iz etoy yami. chto-to mne podskazivayet, chto v protsee "poiska" mi provalimsya (ili uzhe provalilis') v druguyu yamu -- iz toy uzhe vybrat'sya budet oy kak trudno!


On: I think Kyrgyz people got some balls to do this whole thing. At least this will teach people that they can say NO. They can show that they are power too. Not only those in the government.

[Vezunchik]

Nu vot tak i budem sidet' dal'she togda v zh****. "Eto nam ne po plechu, eto nam ne nravit'sya, eto nam ne podhodit. U nas drugiye plani razvitye, i tp. i td." Karoche, mi luchshe budem golodat', bedstvovat', budem ubivat' svoih zhe zemlyakov, no my gordo, kak ORLY --- budem iskat' svoy put' iz etoy yami. chto-to mne podskazivayet, chto v protsee "poiska" mi provalimsya (ili uzhe provalilis') v druguyu yamu -- iz toy uzhe vybrat'sya budet oy kak trudno!


a kto skazal chto Democratiya eta dlya nas, ili nam eta bolshe podhodit???

Imenno v nashih staranah Diktatura prishla posle totalnoy Democratii.

Vot v Koreyii i Yaponii i uje v Kitaye pochti Diktatura, no lyudi davolni`. Pochemu mi` doljni` izobretat velosiped.

Vopros dlya nas kto budet etot Diktator??? tipa, esli proshshe skazat - Horoshiy Diktator ili Plohoy??? Nam nujen Horoshiy.
No dlya etogo u nas est Relligiya. Esli on budet soblyudat kanoni` Relligi, to on budet Horoshiy.

Democratiya eta ne tovar vseobshego polzovaniya. U nego est trebovaniya: politicheskiy vi`bor doljen bi`t chestni`m, spravidlivi`m, gramotni`m i ratsionalni`m v predelah tselesobraznosti.

A v zapodnom mire, naprimer v US poslednie vi`bori` bi`li Demokratichni`mi. pri podderjke 51% ego opponent proigral. tolko izza togo chto tam sistema vi`borov takaya. To est bolshenstvo proigral menshenstvu. Eta razve demokratiya?

Seychas reyting Busha 25%, no ni kto ne mojet ego ubrat, eta razve Demokratiya?
Democratiya eta Lux tovar.
Chtob ego primenyat v Azii, da i vezde, neobhodimo togda ogranichit kolichestva izberateley, ostaviv tolko politicheski gramotni`h. no togda nas obvinyat v narushenii prav cheloveka.

[Demir Kağan]

On: I think Kyrgyz people got some balls to do this whole thing. At least this will teach people that they can say NO. They can show that they are power too. Not only those in the government.

Xalq dengizdir, xalq tulqindir, xalq kuchdir,
Xalq isyondir, xalq olovdir, xalq uchdir.

[Delf]

Vezunchik, kak ti dumaesh, naskolko gramotnim bilo vsyo naselenie US, kogda vveli demokratiyu v 1787 godu? Ili kogda Afini vveli demokratiyu 2000 let nazad? Ili kogda Rimlyane vveli Respubliku 2000 let nazad?

Esli ti boishsa chto obichniy narod ne razbiraetsa vo mnogih problemah - dlya etogo i sushestvuet predstavitelskaya demokratiya (representative democracy), chtob izbirali znayushih lyudei kotorie i budut reshat' problemi v kotori mnogie lyudi ne razbirayutsa. Esli eti znayushie lyudi podvodyat - ih neobhodimo zamenit' na drugih cherez sistemu viborov.


Delf.

[Vezunchik]

Vezunchik, kak ti dumaesh, naskolko gramotnim bilo vsyo naselenie US, kogda vveli demokratiyu v 1787 godu? Ili kogda Afini vveli demokratiyu 2000 let nazad? Ili kogda Rimlyane vveli Respubliku 2000 let nazad?

Esli ti boishsa chto obichniy narod ne razbiraetsa vo mnogih problemah - dlya etogo i sushestvuet predstavitelskaya demokratiya (representative democracy), chtob izbirali znayushih lyudei kotorie i budut reshat' problemi v kotori mnogie lyudi ne razbirayutsa. Esli eti znayushie lyudi podvodyat - ih neobhodimo zamenit' na drugih cherez sistemu viborov.


Delf.

Vot imenno, v Rime i v Gretsii ne ves narod uchastvoval v politike, tochnee vi`borah. Po etomu tam bi`lo s politikoy v techenii ti`syachi let OK. No varvori` vsyo razrushali.
Vot mi` i polzuyumsya Plodami reprezentativnoy Demokratii, i chto imeem v itoge??? kogda mi` izberayem kak i sovetskoe vremya Doyarku, kotoraya v jizne ne chitala Knijku , posle shkoli`.

Nashi deputati` ili predstaviteli naroda prevrashayutsya v Politicheski Impotentni`h instrumentov nashih Diktatorov.

[krokobazuka]

Color revolution? Lola isn't a color that I know about :lol: . What is the big difference between anarchy in Kyrgyzstan and total control in Uzbekistan? For what its worth it seems that normal people seem to favor the anarchy.;) All the lack of stability in Kyrgyzstan hasn't seemed to affect the normal population's normal lives as far as I hear.

Show me where I was referring / preferring the system in Uzbekistan?

When you have mass protest and distraction every 2-3 weeks, it doesn't really bode well with the government course.

[krokobazuka]

Народ выходит на митинги потому что народ недоволен проводимой политикой, т.к. данная политика не приводит к улучшению экономического состояния народа.

У меня вопрос к тем, кто против митингов: так что, народу надо молча все терпеть и ничего от правительстсва не требовать?


Delf.


Smena vlasti proizoshla nedavno. Chto oni ojidali - smestit Akaeva i Kirgiziya cherez noch prevratitsya v Yaponiyu?

Trebovat nado, no ne cherez kajdiye 2-3 nedeli....

If they want a sweeping economic reform, they need to stock up some patience. Can't triple the GDP in 6 months (not that I am suggesting that they are on their way to.

[Inspiredmind]

Vot imenno, v Rime i v Gretsii ne ves narod uchastvoval v politike, tochnee vi`borah. Po etomu tam bi`lo s politikoy v techenii ti`syachi let OK. No varvori` vsyo razrushali.
Vot mi` i polzuyumsya Plodami reprezentativnoy Demokratii, i chto imeem v itoge??? kogda mi` izberayem kak i sovetskoe vremya Doyarku, kotoraya v jizne ne chitala Knijku , posle shkoli`.

Nashi deputati` ili predstaviteli naroda prevrashayutsya v Politicheski Impotentni`h instrumentov nashih Diktatorov.
koroche, vi ne pereubedili menya so svoimi dlinnimi demogogiyami...

[Inspiredmind]

Smena vlasti proizoshla nedavno. Chto oni ojidali - smestit Akaeva i Kirgiziya cherez noch prevratitsya v Yaponiyu?

Trebovat nado, no ne cherez kajdiye 2-3 nedeli....

If they want a sweeping economic reform, they need to stock up some patience. Can't triple the GDP in 6 months (not that I am suggesting that they are on their way to.


$ 1000 bir dostizga or bir yaxshi karindoshizga biring, va aytgan mudatdan yani return vaktidan voobshe 3 4 marta oshib ketdi, i plus siz o'zingizni bergan pulingizni trebovat' kilyabsiz yani bez %... a oiliz och, bola chakiz etcc,,, men sizni ko'raman keyin kanday reaction kilarkinsiz... har ikki kunda borib so'rasangiz kerak pul kani eyyyy bir balooo debb....:D

demokratiuya ya bi nazval ---dogovorom.

[Vezunchik]

koroche, vi ne pereubedili menya so svoimi dlinnimi demogogiyami...


U menya takoy tseli i ne bi`lo. Eta ne mnogo drugoe, chem vi` ojidayete. Esli vi` iz Kirgizii, vam poka ne ponyat, u vas tam seychas eyfforiya Demokratii. Vam dlya nachalo neobhodimo ponyat raznitsu Anarhii i Democratii. Potom kak ni bud pogavarim uje predmetno.

[Inspiredmind]

U menya takoy tseli i ne bi`lo. Eta ne mnogo drugoe, chem vi` ojidayete. Esli vi` iz Kirgizii, vam poka ne ponyat, u vas tam seychas eyfforiya Demokratii. Vam dlya nachalo neobhodimo ponyat raznitsu Anarhii i Democratii. Potom kak ni bud pogavarim uje predmetno.

nam ne nado , prostomu narody ponyt' demokratiii , ne nadooo...ne hochy...xvatit' 2 3 cheloveka k-e ponyali e'too...i kak vi govorite, e;ti kirgizii, k-e knigy ne chitali posle shkole, smogli svyrnut' vlasti,,, delo v rezultate, oni e'to sdelali!!! a teper chto tvoryatsya v uzb-tane,,, ludi dengami, obrazavannie, dva tri i 4 raza chem kirgizii, skajem tak,, terpit' jit' v gavne (izvinyus' za virajeniya),,, samom dele e'to tak..,, kogda , vash gospodin strelyat.mirnix luydey toje ne mojete nichego delat... davnim davno uje doljni bili bit i mitingi i changes presidents etccc,

[Vezunchik]

nam ne nado , prostomu narody ponyt' demokratiii , ne nadooo...ne hochy...xvatit' 2 3 cheloveka k-e ponyali e'too...i kak vi govorite, e;ti kirgizii, k-e knigy ne chitali posle shkole, smogli svyrnut' vlasti,,, delo v rezultate, oni e'to sdelali!!! a teper chto tvoryatsya v uzb-tane,,, ludi dengami, obrazavannie, dva tri i 4 raza chem kirgizii, skajem tak,, terpit' jit' v gavne (izvinyus' za virajeniya),,, samom dele e'to tak..,, kogda , vash gospodin strelyat.mirnix luydey toje ne mojete nichego delat... davnim davno uje doljni bili bit i mitingi i changes presidents etccc,


Vam povezlo, chto u vas tam sidel igrushechni`y (izvenyayus, no tak i govarili sami kirgizi) Pravitel. I s pomoshyu paru millionov ot US vi` smogli eta sdelat kak i Ukraina i Gruziya.
No kak vse uje poneli vo vseh 3 stranah i Kirgiziya, i Ukraina, i Gruziya smogli sdelat lish perevarot. i vo vseh stranah narod esho bolshe ne davolen rezultatami etih perevarotov, i ekanomika esh sela na "gavno". I vse predrikayut, chto ne za goarmi i grajdanskaya revolyutsya snova v etih stranah. To est, chto dlya vas seychas Tsel??? kajdi`y god delat revolyutsii??? esli zavtra Russkie zaplatyat , sdelayete esho odnu Revolyutsiyu???
Ya do revolyutsii znal Normalni`h, vpolne gramotni`h, po standartam Kirgizii zamistiteley ministerstvo Finansov i Ekonomiki, Central Bank kirgizistana. te katori`e obuchilis zarubejom, i oni uje delali chto to poleznoe dlya ekanomiki. To est, ochishali musor poslednih let. S nimi uje schitalis i obashlis Mejdunarodni`e organizatsii toje.

No posle etih Revolyutsiy v novom sostave etih ministerstv i banka ya ne uvidel ni odnogo iz nih, vse kakie ta Ni te. I ya somnevayus chto oni voobshe chto to smogut sdelat, tem bolee poleznoe dlya ekonomiki.

Na sshet Uzb. U nas pi`talis v Andijane sdelat eta, bez pomoshi i ne po zakazu kakoyto drugoy strani`. Da praval. No ne vozmojno sravnit s niskem Uzbekiskie politrejim i vozmojnost silovi`h struktur v prostranstve SNG. Ya kak to chital v inete, chto po info russkih spetsialistov , CIA priznoval chto na territorii SNG Uzb SNB nomer 2 po effektivnosti . A politicheskoy voli IAK mojno i ne govarit. To est, poluchayetsya udar v stenku. Tak chto, ne govarite, chto vi` smogli, a mi` net. Razni`e polya boya.

Posmotrim chto u vas poluchitsya v budushem. Chto dast eti mnogoseriyni`e Revolyutsii Narodu.

[Vezunchik]

Vezunchik, kak ti dumaesh, naskolko gramotnim bilo vsyo naselenie US, kogda vveli demokratiyu v 1787 godu? Ili kogda Afini vveli demokratiyu 2000 let nazad? Ili kogda Rimlyane vveli Respubliku 2000 let nazad?

Delf.


Delf ya pi`talsya nayti odnu horoshuyu statyu Garvardskogo Politologa pro Istoriyu Democratii v US, i naskolko ona bi`la Litsemerno za vsyo eta vremya. No ne smog poka nayti. Kogda naydu postavlyu syuda.

Tam zadavalsya vopros, o tom chto eta Demokratiya s pervi`h dney svoego sushestvovaniya prevozglasila ravnopraviya i politicheskih prav grajdan US. No ne smotrya na eta Respublikantsi` spokoyno zashishali rabovladeltsov, i diskriminirovali cherni`h. Eta preslavutaya democratiya pozvalyalo indeytsev derjat v Rezervatsiyah (do sih por), eta demokratiya okupirovala chast Meksiki.

I v kontse kontsov eta Demokratiya spokoyno repressirovalo v 50-godi` desyatki ti`syach ucheni`h i deyteley, kotori`e simpotizirovali ideyam kommunizma. I eta Democratiya razreshila US brosit bombu v Japan.

I eta Demokratiya segodnya v US priravnayalo prava cheloveka v 0, otmazivayas vi`mi`shlenni`m lozungom protiv Terrora. Seychas ni kto ne mojet kritikovat Seryozno politiku US v tselom, ne tolko Guantanamo , AbuGreyb.....
Oni ob etom smogut skazat tolko v kachestve politicheskih shagov odnoy iz dvuh partiy.

Ti` naverno seychas skajesh, vot po TV lyudi govaryat pro Guantanamo. Da. No kakaya polza ot togo , chto govaryat, kogda Pravitelstvu na plevat i do sih por tam lyudey pi`tayut i ne zakri`li etot chertovo tyurmu?? I chto za Demokratiya , kogda 75% naseleniya protiv prezidenta Busha, a on do sih sidit.

TO EST, v chem raznitsa etoy Demokratii ot drugih Diktatur??? i ne ujeli eta i est Demokratiya???

[Delf]

TO EST, v chem raznitsa etoy Demokratii ot drugih Diktatur??? i ne ujeli eta i est Demokratiya???

Sravni Severnuyu Koreyu i Yujnuyu Koreyu. Sravni Indiyu i Pakistan. Sravni Zapadnuyu Germaniyu i Vostochnuyu.

Vidish raznicu?

Demokratiya ne oznachaet polnoe reshenie vseh problem narodom samolichno. Demokratiya est' stepen' vliyaniya naroda na prinimaemie naverhu resheniya i na naznachaemie naverhu lyudei.

Pri demokratii ti mojesh dat' svoi golos za togo kandidata, kotorogo predpochitaesh. Esli takih net - radi boga vistavlyay sebya v kachestve kandidaturi, izbiraysa i reshay problemi kak schitaesh nujnim.

Pri diktature vsyo reshaetsa za zakritimi dveryami, kuchka chinovnikov pri vlasti beznakazanno ispolzuyut etu vlast' dlya sobstvennoi najivi. Esli poprobuesh poiti protestovat' - poluchish pulyu v lob.


Delf.

[Delf]

Smena vlasti proizoshla nedavno. Chto oni ojidali - smestit Akaeva i Kirgiziya cherez noch prevratitsya v Yaponiyu?

Trebovat nado, no ne cherez kajdiye 2-3 nedeli....

If they want a sweeping economic reform, they need to stock up some patience. Can't triple the GDP in 6 months (not that I am suggesting that they are on their way to.

Sure, Uzbekistan has been patient and waiting for how long???

Any progress???

Or would you like me to contact you in another 20 years?

Delf.

[Zamon]

Uzland,


ya by skazal chto v Kyrgyzstane anarhiya s ottenkami demokratii, voobshe poslednee vremya vse bolshe i bolshe dumayu chto Kyrgyzstan mojno otnesti k gosudarstvam gde govoryat "FAILED STATE" odno iz samyh korrumpirovannyh stran v SNG, ekonomika blagodarya sovetam IMF, World Bank i samih zhe chinovnikov Pravitelstvo KG nahoditsa ruinah, vse vina gospodina fizika AKaeva, on nachal medlenno razushat stranu a Bakiev i vse drugie dali bolshoi skorost dlya etogo processa. Problema Kyrgyzov eto traybalizm, mestinchestvo, klanstvo i konechno zhe korrupcia, odin iz vidnyh ekspertov po KG A. Knyazev skazal "vot uzhe 15 let titulnaya naciya, toest kirgizy, zanimayutsa s politikoi i dokazali chto oni ne imeyut i neznayut kak zanimatsa s politikoi".....naprimer SMI pishut pro odnogo bandita po imeni MOTUEV on prosto vzyal i zahvatil gosudarvennyj obe'kt po proizvodsvu uglya, on ne byl odin s nim byli ego klan, rodsvenniki ili kak on skazal plemya jumgalskih sayakov, zahvatil ugolny kombinat i vse dengi shli v ego karman, SMI kak izvesto svobodnoe tam vse pisali i pisali ob etom i ego sperva arestovali no seichas on ..........na svobode, toest vse korrumpirovanno! vse vlastnye struktury! v aeroportu Manas est baza Amerikancev i nedaleko baza Russkih, vezde kto to imeet svoyu dolyu ot platy etih baz. PArtii kak to stranno tam sozdayut Partiyu po nastroenii komu zahotelos partiyu vot i sozdal sebe partiyu. Arestovali vora-Deputata srazu zhe ego rodsvenniki i vse plemya vyhodyat na ulitzu i zakryvayut shosse ili idut peshkom v Bishkek, kstati eto stalo modno, vse komu ne len idut peshkom v Bishkek....a tam grabyat magaziny restorany, ....i politikoi zanimayutsa isklyuchitelno kirgizy, russkie, uzbeki tadjiki stoyat na storone. chitayu novosit iz Kirgizstgana i obshayus s druzyami i rodnymi ottuda.....prosto gruba govorya ofigeyu, kak tak mozhno zhyt'! bezrabotitsa politicheskaya ne stabilnost, korrupciya, mestami "cherny nazizm".....Amerikancy ne prichem zdes, vse beda u samih Kyrgyzov, ne odumalis ved oni mogut vse zhizn tak mitingovat i shturmovat Dom Pravitelstvo i nichego ne izmenitsa!

[Inspiredmind]

Uzland,


ya by skazal chto v Kyrgyzstane anarhiya s ottenkami demokratii, voobshe poslednee vremya vse bolshe i bolshe dumayu chto Kyrgyzstan mojno otnesti k gosudarstvam gde govoryat "FAILED STATE" odno iz samyh korrumpirovannyh stran v SNG, ekonomika blagodarya sovetam IMF, World Bank i samih zhe chinovnikov Pravitelstvo KG nahoditsa ruinah, vse vina gospodina fizika AKaeva, on nachal medlenno razushat stranu a Bakiev i vse drugie dali bolshoi skorost dlya etogo processa. Problema Kyrgyzov eto traybalizm, mestinchestvo, klanstvo i konechno zhe korrupcia, odin iz vidnyh ekspertov po KG A. Knyazev skazal "vot uzhe 15 let titulnaya naciya, toest kirgizy, zanimayutsa s politikoi i dokazali chto oni ne imeyut i neznayut kak zanimatsa s politikoi".....naprimer SMI pishut pro odnogo bandita po imeni MOTUEV on prosto vzyal i zahvatil gosudarvennyj obe'kt po proizvodsvu uglya, on ne byl odin s nim byli ego klan, rodsvenniki ili kak on skazal plemya jumgalskih sayakov, zahvatil ugolny kombinat i vse dengi shli v ego karman, SMI kak izvesto svobodnoe tam vse pisali i pisali ob etom i ego sperva arestovali no seichas on ..........na svobode, toest vse korrumpirovanno! vse vlastnye struktury! v aeroportu Manas est baza Amerikancev i nedaleko baza Russkih, vezde kto to imeet svoyu dolyu ot platy etih baz. PArtii kak to stranno tam sozdayut Partiyu po nastroenii komu zahotelos partiyu vot i sozdal sebe partiyu. Arestovali vora-Deputata srazu zhe ego rodsvenniki i vse plemya vyhodyat na ulitzu i zakryvayut shosse ili idut peshkom v Bishkek, kstati eto stalo modno, vse komu ne len idut peshkom v Bishkek....a tam grabyat magaziny restorany, ....i politikoi zanimayutsa isklyuchitelno kirgizy, russkie, uzbeki tadjiki stoyat na storone. chitayu novosit iz Kirgizstgana i obshayus s druzyami i rodnymi ottuda.....prosto gruba govorya ofigeyu, kak tak mozhno zhyt'! bezrabotitsa politicheskaya ne stabilnost, korrupciya, mestami "cherny nazizm".....Amerikancy ne prichem zdes, vse beda u samih Kyrgyzov, ne odumalis ved oni mogut vse zhizn tak mitingovat i shturmovat Dom Pravitelstvo i nichego ne izmenitsa!,

shoshilmasdannnn gapiring birodar,holikmeng...:D , suv pu ichvoling,, motuev kg-ne,, dochka in uzb-tane...iany differency? shuni biling , birodar,, zato bizzzzz HOHLAGANIMIZI KILYABMIZ< BIZni HALKIMIZ DAVLATIMIZNI KOLIDA OYNATADIII>>>:D ,halki nag'orasida vlast'' tansaga tyshadi... a boshka joyda naoborot...shoshilmang keng fikrlang....gaplarizi not'ogri demayman, lekin hamma joyda hamma hamma SNG davlatlarida bor narsani yozdiz not only in kg...:D hammaga ayon bu narsalar...

[Vezunchik]

Rebyata ne uje li vi` dumayete chto tam narod mitinguet??
Narod prevratili v tolpu. Tam opredelenni`e lyudi , tochnee seychas 2-3 cheloveka mejdu saboy boryatsya. A Naroda berut i arenduyut. Platyat komu nado, i arenduyut etu tolpu. Sli`shali chto govaril Feliks v mitenge. Ego slova ne bi`li napravleni` na Narod. On govarit, chto "Vse nashi trebovaniya pinyati` Prezidentom, no mi` vsyo ravno budem stoyat zdes. (?, zachem nado stoyat, esli ih trebovaniya prinyati`??? ), NArod na nas snimayut i vediti sebya kak nado (?, stranno , esli ne snimali bi`, mojno bi`lo bi` delat vsyo chto ugodno???), Nas priglashayut na peregovori`, i mi` poydem na peregavori`... (?, togda zachem prodoljat miting, esli ti` dobilsya peregovarov, i gde Publikatsiya polnogo perechnya tvoih peregovorov???)". To est, Fars! Narod ne krichal day na , to , day na syo... Oni prosto , UHODI PREZIDENT! Vot za chto??? netu obosnovaniy. Govoryat u nego tam klan. A u kogo netu??? Etot Feliks otkuda vzyal dengi na etot miting esli on Chisti`y chelovek?

TAm narod ne prichem. Tam ne narod Nasiluyet Pravitelstvo. Tam narodom polzuyutsya. kak i u nas i vezde . Tak chto, ne nado sebe illyuziyu stroit chto tam Narod Igrayetsya s Pravitelstvom.


V Proshloy revolyutsii rebyata rasskazivali. Chto spustilas tolpa s Gor, i razrushali Bishkek. Odin drug pisal, chto oni sami ne znali chto oni hotyat. Ih kak v piner lagere, tuda otvozili, suda otvozili, chtob oni Deboshu utsroili. I v etih Revolyutsiyah Bishkekskie pochti ne uchastvuyut. Tam vezde tolko molodie Gorni`e rebyata i chut chut jenshini`.

[krokobazuka]

Sure, Uzbekistan has been patient and waiting for how long???

Any progress???

Or would you like me to contact you in another 20 years?

Delf.

Read my post again. Where am I suggesting patience with any regime (in any country) that has been in power for over 5+ years and hasn't accomplished much?

My whole point is that you can't demand overnight improvement of life quality from a regime that has been in power less that 1-2 years. Kyrghyz folks elected Bakiev not long ago, they are on the streets protesting again. Well, ok, let him step down. They'll elect another president and protest again in 2-3 months. I don't see that as being productive.

It takes over a year to build a single large scale industrial production facility. It takes 2-3 years in a well functioned economy to feel the effect of a major fiscal policy. Unless you have an Uncle Sam that would give you $10,000 for every living citizen in your country just for having a beautiful face two days after you came to power, you aren't building anything overnight.

If any of the smartheads were given a top chair in any poor un-industrialized country with no natural resources to speak of, I'd like to see them last more than a year without a major internal turmoil.

[Vezunchik]

Sravni Severnuyu Koreyu i Yujnuyu Koreyu. Sravni Indiyu i Pakistan. Sravni Zapadnuyu Germaniyu i Vostochnuyu.

Vidish raznicu?

Demokratiya ne oznachaet polnoe reshenie vseh problem narodom samolichno. Demokratiya est' stepen' vliyaniya naroda na prinimaemie naverhu resheniya i na naznachaemie naverhu lyudei.

Pri demokratii ti mojesh dat' svoi golos za togo kandidata, kotorogo predpochitaesh. Esli takih net - radi boga vistavlyay sebya v kachestve kandidaturi, izbiraysa i reshay problemi kak schitaesh nujnim.

Pri diktature vsyo reshaetsa za zakritimi dveryami, kuchka chinovnikov pri vlasti beznakazanno ispolzuyut etu vlast' dlya sobstvennoi najivi. Esli poprobuesh poiti protestovat' - poluchish pulyu v lob.


Delf.


Delf predstavlyayesh ne nashel v Korei Priznaki Democratii. Tam 25 let rukovodil Oligarhiya Voenni`h. Toje mojno nazvat tip Diktaturi`. Tam politicheskaya aktivnost bi`la na urovne 0. Tolko poslednee 15 let Jostkaya diktatura pomenyalsya na Myagkuyu Diktaturu. Tam stavili plan rosta Eksporta etomu Chebolu. V techenii etih 25 let oni imeli garantirovannuyu Foregin Aid ot US. Tam opozitsionni`h partiy ne bi`lo. Narod ne interesovalsya s politikoy voobshe, kak i v Yaponii, gde politicheskiy reyting Pravitelstva vsegda nahodilsya na urovne 30%.

Pakistan i Indiya. Esli dumayesh chto oni ochen otichayutsya , oshibayeshsya. Pakistan, eta odna iz edinstvenni`h musulmanskih stran (da vo vsem mire, oni bi`li pervi`mi) strana gde glava Pravitelstva stala Jenshina-Benazir Bhutto. Esli dumaesh v Indii est bolshaya Democratiya - eta uje vopros. Tam dostup k izberatelnoy urne imeet tolko 50% naseleniya, i te ne polzuyutsya tolkom etim pravom. Tam, 125 oligarhicheskih grupp, iz razni`h Shtatov reshayut ekon politiku. No politicheskaya jizn vsegda prohodit mejdu 2-3 gruppirovkami. To est, kak tokogo Narodovlastiya netu, toje.

V Germanii kak uje izvestno Demokratiya v obeih chastyah strani`, no ekon izderjki poka est v Vostochnoy. No eta uje ne vliyanie Demoktarii, eta chista Proizvodstvennaya Spetsifika, i ona poslednee vremya bi`stro neveliruetsya.


Mojno skazat v Azii Demokratiya ne mojet stat Politicheskoy Platformoy. Daje v Singapure i Tayvan Demokratiya sovsem uj razlichayetsya ot ne tlko Germanskoy, Frantsuzskoy , da i ot Chehskoy i Vengerskoy. Skoree Polskaya Demokratiya uje bolshe stanovitsya pohojim na Aziatskuyu, chem Zapodnuyu.
Dlya Azii bolshe podhodit Myagkaya Diktatura oligarhicheskogo tipa, ne vajno kakaya oligarhiya: voennaya, promi`shlennaya, politicheskaya...
Nu Kitay chem ne primer, gde est Diktatura politicheskoy Oligarhii.

[melo]

Read my post again. Where am I suggesting patience with any regime (in any country) that has been in power for over 5+ years and hasn't accomplished much?

My whole point is that you can't demand overnight improvement of life quality from a regime that has been in power less that 1-2 years. Kyrghyz folks elected Bakiev not long ago, they are on the streets protesting again. Well, ok, let him step down. They'll elect another president and protest again in 2-3 months. I don't see that as being productive.

It takes over a year to build a single large scale industrial production facility. It takes 2-3 years in a well functioned economy to feel the effect of a major fiscal policy. Unless you have an Uncle Sam that would give you $10,000 for every living citizen in your country just for having a beautiful face two days after you came to power, you aren't building anything overnight.

If any of the smartheads were given a top chair in any poor un-industrialized country with no natural resources to speak of, I'd like to see them last more than a year without a major internal turmoil.

The protests are not about economic improvement, but instead fuflfilling campaign promises towards opening up the economy, improving rights of the cizitens, and reducing corruption. I don't think anyone needs the government to open up any industrial production facility. That really isn't the governments job. And just for the record they did make a ton of money off the US from the base. ;) The natural resource that Kyrgyzstan possesses is called hyrdroelectric energy production and gold (and the US base :lol: ). ;) Not sure where you are getting your informaiton.

[krokobazuka]

The protests are not about economic improvement, but instead fuflfilling campaign promises towards opening up the economy, improving rights of the cizitens, and reducing corruption. I don't think anyone needs the government to open up any industrial production facility. That really isn't the governments job. And just for the record they did make a ton of money off the US from the base. ;) The natural resource that Kyrgyzstan possesses is called hyrdroelectric energy production and gold (and the US base :lol: ). ;) Not sure where you are getting your informaiton.


So explain me how you can reduce corruption overnight or open up economy overnight? Just because you implement bunch of laws, doesn't mean that officials will stop taking bribes or market economy will come in full force. Institutional reform takes place for a long period of time. And protests root from poverty, not from lack of human rights. If you feed everyone and provide with enough money so that they can buy anything anytime (ala Kuweit or other Gulf states), citizen won't care much about human rights. Ask Iraqis, would they prefer to live under Saddam regime before 1990s or in hell of a modern day democracy (hey at least they can elect parliament members.. yahoooo)

Gold - my bad on judgement, but..
1. The Kumtor mine wasn't exploited until recently.
2. Very volatile and were at historic lows in late 1990s.
3. Kirg is only #16 producer in the world. It has produced 104 tons of gold since opening in 1997. The world YEARLY total is 2520 tons. So there is no way you can imply that gold could be a major natural resource as oil in ME, Gas in Turkmenistan and so on.

Tons of money from US base? If you divide several million USD per capita... that wouldn't be much.

Hydroelectric energy - 1) requires industrial investment 2) who are they going to sell it to? Tadj? Uzb? KZ? May be China - but even then it's not that much.

So bottom line, IMO - a poor state like KG needs relatively authoritarian regime (AND A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR) to get the hell out of poverty before they get to protest at will... There are almost "free & democratic" elections happening in Africa every month, but I don't see an African country joining G-7 anytime soon

[Delf]

There are almost "free & democratic" elections happening in Africa every month, but I don't see an African country joining G-7 anytime soon

You mean countries under people like Mugabe, Turkmenbashi, Karimov or Pinochet?

Krok, what you completely miss is that those "benevolent dictators" first and foremost think of their own security and profit, then about security and profit of their supporters and least of all they think of security and welfare of ordinary citizens.


Delf.

[melo]

So explain me how you can reduce corruption overnight or open up economy overnight? Just because you implement bunch of laws, doesn't mean that officials will stop taking bribes or market economy will come in full force. Institutional reform takes place for a long period of time. And protests root from poverty, not from lack of human rights. If you feed everyone and provide with enough money so that they can buy anything anytime (ala Kuweit or other Gulf states), citizen won't care much about human rights. Ask Iraqis, would they prefer to live under Saddam regime before 1990s or in hell of a modern day democracy (hey at least they can elect parliament members.. yahoooo)

Gold - my bad on judgement, but..
1. The Kumtor mine wasn't exploited until recently.
2. Very volatile and were at historic lows in late 1990s.
3. Kirg is only #16 producer in the world. It has produced 104 tons of gold since opening in 1997. The world YEARLY total is 2520 tons. So there is no way you can imply that gold could be a major natural resource as oil in ME, Gas in Turkmenistan and so on.

Tons of money from US base? If you divide several million USD per capita... that wouldn't be much.

Hydroelectric energy - 1) requires industrial investment 2) who are they going to sell it to? Tadj? Uzb? KZ? May be China - but even then it's not that much.

So bottom line, IMO - a poor state like KG needs relatively authoritarian regime (AND A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR) to get the hell out of poverty before they get to protest at will... There are almost "free & democratic" elections happening in Africa every month, but I don't see an African country joining G-7 anytime soon

Americans protest all the time and they are not economically suffering. ;)

When your population is only 5 million the number 16 gold prducer in the world is good money ;) And yes they sell energy to their neighbors- but not China. The key is not surviving on natural resources because that only makes the government rich and increases their powers anyways.

How does a dictator get anyone out of poverty and why would they ever care? Show me any examples of that in the world.

Who says the US base money has anything to do with the population? You think they are going to spread the money around? You have interesting ideas of how governments work. :lol: So when a country gets rich they start spreading the money around? I will use the US again as an example where that does not happen.

Are you related to Bakiyev or something? :lol: Just kidding. :cool:

[Vezunchik]

http://www.russiantvonline.com/
tam v pravom uglu est kanal Pervi`y "Vremya" s 15 aprelya.
zaydite i posmotrite . v 1 chasti pro Ukrainu , 2 chasti info pro novostey Kirgiziyu i svyaz revolyutsiy s US bazami. Posmotrite. Skoree skajete eta Loj. Nu vsyotaki..... polezno......

[MUHLIS]

Qirg'izistonda hozir "quloq cho'zma" o'yini ketmoqda, hokimiyatning egasi yo'q ega chiqmoqchi bo'lganni esa qulog'ini cho'zishmoqda.

[UzLand]

Video story about this in Uzbek

YouTube - Political Situation in Kyrgyzstan