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UzLand

04-18-2007, 01:20 PM

see the attachment

Royal

04-18-2007, 01:41 PM

kipchak

04-18-2007, 02:12 PM

всем не угодишь, поэтому если враг недоволен тобой, значит ты все правильно делаешь. В гос.аппарате есть уйма минусов, целая куча, но судить о ситуации в стране в целом на примере этих нескольких правозащитников -- просто бред сивой кобылы.. имхо конечно..

лучше поищите что это хуман райтс вотч говорила по поводу первой иракской кампании - будете весьма удивлены.

Royal

04-18-2007, 02:13 PM

UzLand

04-18-2007, 02:16 PM

Har qandoq hukumatdan norozi boganla har qaysi bir davlatda bor...

bulaniyam oziga yarasha tirikchiligi bor...

USda har hil militsiychilar guruhlari...

UKda Irlandiyaliklar...

Spainda BAKSchilar...

deganday...

u r mixing apples and oranges...IRA and ETA are terrorist groups, not human rights defenders:)

melo

04-18-2007, 02:18 PM

u r mixing apples and oranges...IRA and ETA are terrorist groups, not human rights defenders:)

That is a very fine line. And I think that line is drawn by western european and the United States governments. ;)

UzLand

04-18-2007, 02:19 PM

That is a very fine line. And I think that line is drawn by western european and the United States governments. ;)

Because Eastern and Muslim governments prefer to keep quiet and not talk about such things...since they are abusive themselves...

melo

04-18-2007, 02:22 PM

Because Eastern and Muslim governments prefer to keep quiet and not talk about such things...since they are abusive themselves...

Western governments do their share of rights abuses and they even outsource it to those evil governments to do their human rights abuses for them sometimes. ;) That way they can pretend to be clean.

R.Azimov

04-18-2007, 02:24 PM

Royal

04-18-2007, 02:28 PM

political intriques are good to play where has a demand for it...so they think there must be played, they try to play there, no matter what..as long as they achieve they goals...if in any case they did not achieve they goals, that ok also, as long as they try to do so and they achieved not positive , but negative result...that better than nothing there.

shows theyare working, as i say there, they try to achieve they golas: NO MATTER WHAT and WHATEVER COST....

they don't care that after them , so many pople may go to jails or so many places could be destroyed because of them, that is done in the name of the THEY business and those could be just used in the way of own agenda....to be WRIGHT OUT.

UzLand

04-18-2007, 03:19 PM

Western governments do their share of rights abuses and they even outsource it to those evil governments to do their human rights abuses for them sometimes. ;) That way they can pretend to be clean.

You are a great devil's advocate:) no one is justifying the abuses Western government do, but don't you think being in America you feel your rights are more secure than in Uzbekistan, Nigeria or China? No society is perfect and you are looking from the standards of perfectionism...it doesn't work...

UzLand

04-18-2007, 03:21 PM

Mening fikrimcha yuqoridagilarning aksariyatini xalq tanimaydi.
Taniganlarning aksariyati esa ularni "xalq dushmanlari"(yozuvchilar, g'alamislar vhk...) sifatida bilishsa kerak.

Bu mening shaxsiy fikrim. Jizzahda o'tgan yili edi shekilli, bitta "Huquq himoyachisi"ni xalq toshbo'ron qilgandi... Sababi nedur? Mening fikrimga monand emasmu degan xayolga boraman.

RA

уларни халк таниши шарт эмас...улар сизга спорт устаси, сиесатчи еки актер ва ашулачимаску...уларни халк билиши учун улар ОАВ да чикиш имкониятига эга булиши керакми?

тошбуронга келсак, уларни халк эмас, подставной одамлар буюртма еки босим асосида тошбурон килган...махаллага буйрук келади еки узини шунака одамлари бор...айникса шунака аеллар бор...по заказу бориб уриб келади...

melo

04-18-2007, 04:08 PM

You are a great devil's advocate:) no one is justifying the abuses Western government do, but don't you think being in America you feel your rights are more secure than in Uzbekistan, Nigeria or China? No society is perfect and you are looking from the standards of perfectionism...it doesn't work...

which particular rights are we talking about? I guess I can carry a gun here but couldn't in other countries. :rolleyes: The US government could imprison me now without any reason. What does that count as? So my answer is generally no- unless you are talking about weapons. ;) The second ammendment doesn't actually say that but it is the most protected of human rights. :lool:

hojiaka

04-18-2007, 04:38 PM

Osha battol rejim o'stida tilini, iymonini yutib, kozini yummagan insonlar oldida ta'zim qilmoq kerak. Hamma voqelikni siyosat tomonga burib nopokligini korsatsa boladi. Inson huquqlari himoyachilari chet el grantlari asosida "tirikchilik" qiladi. degan odamlar ham yoq emas. lekin hukumat tomonidan "halq dushmani" "sotqin" "garbni laychasi" kabi tamgalar bilan birga taziyqlarga ham uchrab qamoqlarda otirganlar ham ular.
Hech kim, HECH KIM hukumat tomonidan nohaqlik sodir bolganda, o'z/o'zga haqqini talab qilib norozilik bildirgani uchun zindonband qilinmasligi kerak! Bu 18 asrga hos holat. Ayni kunlarda "o'zgacha fikrlovchilar" ustidan taziyq otkazayotgan hukumatlarning Padariga Ming La'nat!
Qiziq... nega dunyo Gandini, Dr. Luther Kingni, Saharovni, Mandelani va yana qanchalab men bilmagan inson huquqlari uchun kurashgan shahslarni qahramon deb bilib hurmat qiladiku, biz O'zmizdagi potencial "Gandilarni" "Saharovlarni" "grantlarga ishlayotgan halq dushmani", "farovon tinch hayotimizni buzmoqchi bo'lgan Aqsh Gumashtalari" sifatida koramiz ???....

Different is not equal to Wrong, Different = Different

Darvesh

04-19-2007, 01:34 AM

Qiziq... nega dunyo Gandini, Dr. Luther Kingni, Saharovni, Mandelani va yana qanchalab men bilmagan inson huquqlari uchun kurashgan shahslarni qahramon deb bilib hurmat qiladiku, biz O'zmizdagi potencial "Gandilarni" "Saharovlarni" "grantlarga ishlayotgan halq dushmani", "farovon tinch hayotimizni buzmoqchi bo'lgan Aqsh Gumashtalari" sifatida koramiz ???....

Different is not equal to Wrong, Different = Different

Hurmatli Hojiaka,

Siz yuqorida sanab o'tgan tarihiy shahslar va bizning "huquq himoyachilarimizning" orasida bir kichikgina farq bor: yuqoridagi shaxslar GOYA uchun kurashgan, bizning "arboblarimiz" esa chet el hukumatlaridan keladigan pulga "huquqimizni himoya qilishadi".
Bu birinchidan edi, ikkinchidan: siz sanab o'tgan shahslar Vataning farovonligini nazarda tutib, real ish bilan shugullanishgan, HRWning reportidagi Surat Ikramov kabi Centrasia.ru'da "Meni SNB o'gillab ketmoqhi bo'ldi" va ikki kundan kegin "Meni SNB yana o'girlab ketmoqchi bo'ldi" deb uydirma maqolalar yozishmagan. Yoki nega o'zbek halqi Freedom House kabi CIA nazorati ostidagi tashkilotlarga ishlagan, noqonuniy tarzda Uzb chegaralaridan bir necha bor o'tgan Umida Niyozovaning holisligiga ishonishi kerak? Va nega uni O'zbekiston qonunlarini buzgan bo'lsa, qamab bo'lmaydi? Faqatgina ayol kishi va farzandi bo'lgani uchun mi? Yoki HRWga ishlagani uchun mi?

Bizda inson huquqlarini buzish faktlari yoq emas, buni hech kim rad etmayapti, lekin bu amalyot bilan faqat har bir fuqaro o'z sioysiy huquqlarini talab qilish orqalik kurashish mumkin. Hozirda esa bu faktlar bizga dushman bo'lgan kuchlarning qo'lida o'z manfaatlarini ilgori surish uchun taziyq instrumentiga aylanib qolgan. Bizga qarshi informatsion urush ketmoqda, va afsus, o'zbek hukumati bu urishni yutkazmoqda.

Gareeb

04-19-2007, 03:02 AM

Huquq himoyachilariga zarur ekanda jonini xawf ostiga qo'yib grant uchun ishlasa?

O'sha Surat Ikromov yoki Tolib Yoqubovlar g'oya uchun, vatan farovonligi wa osoyishtaligi uchun kurashmaganda edi allaqachon hukumat tarafiga o'tvolib lo'ttivozlik qilib yurgan bo'lar edi.
O'zbekistonga nisbatan hech qanday axborot urushi ketgani yo'q, ishtoni yo'qning hadigi cho'pdan degandek, hukumat xalqqa zolimligi uchun o'zining soyasidan ham qo'rqadigan bo'lib qolgan.

Arhimed

04-19-2007, 08:58 AM

Hurmatli Hojiaka,

Yoki nega o'zbek halqi Freedom House kabi CIA nazorati ostidagi tashkilotlarga ishlagan, noqonuniy tarzda Uzb chegaralaridan bir necha bor o'tgan Umida Niyozovaning holisligiga ishonishi kerak? Va nega uni O'zbekiston qonunlarini buzgan bo'lsa, qamab bo'lmaydi? Faqatgina ayol kishi va farzandi bo'lgani uchun mi? Yoki HRWga ishlagani uchun mi?

Bizda inson huquqlarini buzish faktlari yoq emas, buni hech kim rad etmayapti, lekin bu amalyot bilan faqat har bir fuqaro o'z sioysiy huquqlarini talab qilish orqalik kurashish mumkin. Hozirda esa bu faktlar bizga dushman bo'lgan kuchlarning qo'lida o'z manfaatlarini ilgori surish uchun taziyq instrumentiga aylanib qolgan. Bizga qarshi informatsion urush ketmoqda, va afsus, o'zbek hukumati bu urishni yutkazmoqda.

Umida Niyazova, Sharqiy Turkistonning birinchi presidentini nabirasi hisoblanadi. Agar Sizni ham birortasi qamab qo'yaman desa yo qiynoqqa solishga harakat qilsa, sichqonni uy ming tangga bo'lib qoladi. Hech qanday qonun ponunga qaramaysiz. Yo Siz UZB militsiya va SNBsida qana qilib so'roq qilishini bilmaysizmi?

uzbekiston qonunlari legitimiligini o'zi katta savol ostida, shunday ekan qanaqa qonun tog'risida gapiyapsiz?

Dushmanlar osmondan tushmaydi. ularni o'ziniz yaratamiz. Siz esa Uzbkiston mafkurasi qurboni eknaligingizni yaqqol ko'rsatdingiz. Huddi Stalin vaqtlariga o'hshaydi, og'ma halq, kimnidir bu half dushmani desa ishonib ketavargandek, o'z qardoshlarini melitsiyaga ushlab beradi, qamashsa hursand bo'lishadi

UzLand

04-20-2007, 08:28 AM

which particular rights are we talking about? I guess I can carry a gun here but couldn't in other countries. :rolleyes: The US government could imprison me now without any reason. What does that count as? So my answer is generally no- unless you are talking about weapons. ;) The second ammendment doesn't actually say that but it is the most protected of human rights. :lool:

I didn't know you are good at pretending too. I am talking about your basic rights. When was the last time you were stopped by a US police in the street? Can't you discuss politics and criticize your government with friends? Can't you protest? Can't you demand your rights and still be free? You are surprising me so much. You may not like your government, but you can't hate your system. Or is it called "to'qlikka sho'xlik" if you know what it means...

Your parallels between the US system and some dictatorships are so shallow...

melo

04-20-2007, 08:45 AM

I didn't know you are good at pretending too. I am talking about your basic rights. When was the last time you were stopped by a US police in the street? Can't you discuss politics and criticize your government with friends? Can't you protest? Can't you demand your rights and still be free? You are surprising me so much. You may not like your government, but you can't hate your system. Or is it called "to'qlikka sho'xlik" if you know what it means...

Your parallels between the US system and some dictatorships are so shallow...

Please explain the differences. The US coud imprison anyone under the same crap that they do in any country. I do not see the US having a wonderful record of human rights within its own country and I do not see the freedom you are talking about either. The US has more people in prison than any other country in the world!!!! (more than China or India) Just review history and you will understand what I am talking about. :rolleyes: And the system is totally flawed, but that is another argument. :lol: And for the record I have been stopped by US police several times before. I guess I look like a troublemaker.

But you are telling me that because they allow a few rich people (who do not represent me or most of the nation) to get up and discuss politics with one another I should somehow feel free and priviledged?

hojiaka

04-20-2007, 07:45 PM

Hurmatli Hojiaka,

Siz yuqorida sanab o'tgan tarihiy shahslar va bizning "huquq himoyachilarimizning" orasida bir kichikgina farq bor: yuqoridagi shaxslar GOYA uchun kurashgan, bizning "arboblarimiz" esa chet el hukumatlaridan keladigan pulga "huquqimizni himoya qilishadi".
Bu birinchidan edi, ikkinchidan: siz sanab o'tgan shahslar Vataning farovonligini nazarda tutib, real ish bilan shugullanishgan, HRWning reportidagi Surat Ikramov kabi Centrasia.ru'da "Meni SNB o'gillab ketmoqhi bo'ldi" va ikki kundan kegin "Meni SNB yana o'girlab ketmoqchi bo'ldi" deb uydirma maqolalar yozishmagan. Yoki nega o'zbek halqi Freedom House kabi CIA nazorati ostidagi tashkilotlarga ishlagan, noqonuniy tarzda Uzb chegaralaridan bir necha bor o'tgan Umida Niyozovaning holisligiga ishonishi kerak? Va nega uni O'zbekiston qonunlarini buzgan bo'lsa, qamab bo'lmaydi? Faqatgina ayol kishi va farzandi bo'lgani uchun mi? Yoki HRWga ishlagani uchun mi?

Bizda inson huquqlarini buzish faktlari yoq emas, buni hech kim rad etmayapti, lekin bu amalyot bilan faqat har bir fuqaro o'z sioysiy huquqlarini talab qilish orqalik kurashish mumkin. Hozirda esa bu faktlar bizga dushman bo'lgan kuchlarning qo'lida o'z manfaatlarini ilgori surish uchun taziyq instrumentiga aylanib qolgan. Bizga qarshi informatsion urush ketmoqda, va afsus, o'zbek hukumati bu urishni yutkazmoqda.

Hurmatli Studiosus,

Honaga Shamol kirishi uchun Ochilgan oynadan toza havo shamol bilan birgalikda chang tuzon mikrob ham kirib keladi. yoki O'zbek halqida Guruchni kurmaksiz bilmasligi haqida maqollar ham bor. siz bilib bilmagan "inson huquqlari" himoyachilari garbdan olayotgan grantlariga qurib olgan dang'illama uchastkalarda yashab turib "rastamojka" qilinmagan "mers"larda yuradi a ?
Umida Niyozova ham Dollar sotayotganda qolga tushdimi ? yoki qatortolda tirikchilik qilayotgandami ? balkim osha "dushman" qirg'izistondan sumkasida Narkotika olib kelayotganda ushalgandir ? Surat Ikramov bilan bir marta bolsa ham qol berib korishib suhbatlashganmisiz ? ha endi ular sizni Talabingizga javob bera olmaydigan "huquq himoyachilari" ekan uzr. Bori shuda hozir ulardan ham battari borkuuu ardzinov deganlari Zohidov deganlari
Surat ikramov boradisa.... (nahot u odamni ahmoq deb oylasangiz yoki maniya velichiya si shunchalik kuchli mikan ? SNB haqida bolmagan ishlarni yozsa uni ozi bilan "jiddiy hazillashib" qoymaydilarmi ? bolganki yozgan. Ha sall kopirtirgan bolishi mumkin. Bu ham O'zbekka hos holot. )
mana men o'zim shahsan sizga $500 beraman siz asl ismingizni qoyib SNB meni ushlamoqchi yoki shunga ohshash 2 ta "uydirma"/tanqidiy maqola yozib ferghana va centrasia larda chop etas tagiga adres va telfonlaringizni ham yozasiz. yurak dov beradimi ? bu ham o'zicha jasorat aka, ularni ham goya uchun kurashayotganlari bor halqni o'zi savodsiz holos "goya" ni kopchilik eee bu "pul uchun g'arbni puli uchun" deb ovunadi.

Do'stim hamma narsa pulga sotilmaydi hali ham boshqalar uchun vatan uchun o'zidan kechib qoyganlar bor ularni hurmat qila olish lozim. siz aytgan kabilar esa o'zidan o'zi g'alvirdan otmay qolaveradi zamona zayli bilan :)

UzLand

04-20-2007, 09:01 PM

Please explain the differences. The US coud imprison anyone under the same crap that they do in any country. I do not see the US having a wonderful record of human rights within its own country and I do not see the freedom you are talking about either. The US has more people in prison than any other country in the world!!!! (more than China or India) Just review history and you will understand what I am talking about. :rolleyes: And the system is totally flawed, but that is another argument. :lol: And for the record I have been stopped by US police several times before. I guess I look like a troublemaker.

But you are telling me that because they allow a few rich people (who do not represent me or most of the nation) to get up and discuss politics with one another I should somehow feel free and priviledged?

I guess you are just a spoiled brat...

For example, today I played soccer in the National Mall - on a grass right in front of the Capitol Hill...can you imagine such a situation in Tashkent? Playing sports in front of the Oliy Majlis? I can hang on the fence of the White House in DC. Can you even come close to the Oq Saroy in Tashkent?

Uzbekxonim

04-21-2007, 03:18 AM

bir mahal bitta foreigner O'zbekdan sorgan ekan: What do you do?, O'zbek: "I am Human Rights Lawyer" degan ekan, Foreigner esa: "Human Rights lawyer in Uzbekistan?! And you're still alive?!"...

Uzbekxonim

04-21-2007, 03:19 AM

UzLand

04-21-2007, 09:08 AM

hey, huys dont' compare different civilizations...

Welcome back!!!:)

On: I am comparing only because he is not appreciating what he has...

melo

04-21-2007, 06:28 PM

I guess you are just a spoiled brat...

For example, today I played soccer in the National Mall - on a grass right in front of the Capitol Hill...can you imagine such a situation in Tashkent? Playing sports in front of the Oliy Majlis? I can hang on the fence of the White House in DC. Can you even come close to the Oq Saroy in Tashkent?

Wow hanging on the fence. That truly is freedom. :lool: Maybe you just don't understand it very well. Somehow economic success has been interpreted as freedom as human rights here. And don't call me names unless you can back that up with facts. :rolleyes: Please tell me what I have to appreciate. Most of the freedom you are attributing to the government is actually culture that everyone on the forum seems to hate and make fun of anyways. You are very naive to claim the government is providing freedom and human rights.:rolleyes:

p.s. I actaully agree that it should be illegal to hang on the fence in front of the white house. :lool:

UzLand

04-23-2007, 08:28 AM

EU welcomes Uzbek move on rights dialogue

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L23179903.htm