Американские солдаты в Узбекистане!!!!!!!

[liberal]

Правительство Узбекистана дала добро на размещения американских солдат в городе Термезе. Тем самым уже который раз доказала что является подхалимом. Как писали некоторые members американцы придут побомбят, постреляют и уйдут а Узбекистан останется на своем месте. И кто даст гарантии что Движения Талебан и Северный Альянс не будет мстит за предательства. Американцы исползовав Узбекистан бросит на произвол судьбы. Мы это видели на примере Македонии. Солдаты начнут размещатся с 22 Сентября.

Бардам бул Узбек халки, узингдан чикканлар сенинг юзингга тупурмок истадилар. Не хам кила оласан, ахир сен куйдай беозорсан.

[garik]

Endi bechora nomozxonlarni qiynash battar avjiga chiqadi, shu vaqtgacha G'arb demokratik tashkilotalri bu ishlarga qarshi chiqib kelishgandi, endi esa hammasi Terrorist ularni deb davlatimiz qilayotgan ishga hech narsa deyishmaydi...

[mm]

Ey "Liberal" ty gde wsyal etu info ????
Nashyet Usb-na poyailos w poslednee wremya stolko mnogo "utok", strelyat etih "utok" nekomu :(
Ladno, day plz adress etogo soobsheniya

Uspehow i mira Wsem
Zafar

ps: "Biz Tolibonga omad tilaymiz" I.A.Karimov

[reader]

otkuda eta info???

[kabul]

qattan oldilaring bunaqa ma'lumotni? manimcha bu ham CNN ni navbatdagi "g'alamus" habari bo'lsa kerak?! ???


Zafar san qilgan "ps" dagi gap qachon aytilgan?

[mm]

"man" aka, otahonimiz bu gaplarni adashmasam shu yilni boshida aytgan edilar.

Forumda ham bollar rosa yesishgan bu togrisida.

Hullas hozir hech-kimga ishonmaydigan bolib koldi, waqt eng zor jurnalist, hamma narsani korsatadi.

Omad hammaga
Zafar

[Uzbek]

Солдаты начнут размещатся с 22 Сентября.
Liberal, ty sluchayno v State Departmente ne rabotaesh?! takie "tochniye" dannye u tebya, patriot xrenov!

bud zdarov.

[Prohojiy]

Узбекистан не предоставит свою территорию для акции возмездия




Президент Узбекистана Ислам Каримов опроверг сообщения о том, что Ташкент якобы заявлял о готовности предоставить свою территорию и воздушное пространство для использования ВВС СШАдля нанесения ударов по базам Усамы бен Ладена в Афганистане. "Мы обязательств по предоставлению территории и воздушного пространства не давали", – сказал Каримов в среду. С другой стороны, по его словам, если следственные органы США докажут, что именно из Афганистана террористы готовили террористические акты, "то возмездие должно свершиться". //«Интерфакс»

[Cute1]

Uzbekistan will help if Russia says so. Bu gaplar ingliz matbuotidan

[SUN6500]

"И кто даст гарантии что Движения Талебан и Северный Альянс не будет мстит за предательства."

Northern Alliance itself announced that they'll assist in fighting Taliban which they're already in war. So, I think Uzbekistan has to stand up for itself and assist the US in fight against Taliban because sooner or later they will be coming after Uzbek territory with Juma Namangani in command. Wake up people, now is our chance.
"Birlashgan O'zar, birlashmagan..."

[elDoraDo]

sux... usa don't give a damn about ppl of UZB... kto dast garanitye chto zdes vsyo budet mirno spokoyno... nu, war - tak war.. bundan qo'shni davlatlarga qandaydur havf borki, USA bugun kirgiziyadagi barcha AMERICANEC larni chaqribi oldi... nimaga? hren znaet...
sux... tog'ora...

D :x D

[nobody]

Обновлено 22.09.2001 в 20:43:36
Версия для печати

Американские самолеты-резведчики приземлились под Ташкентом
Военные самолеты США приземлились в субботу под Ташкентом, сообщает "Газета.Ru" со ссылкой на анонимный источник в вооруженных силах Узбекистана.
По данным источника, самолеты с разведывательным оборудованием находятся на военном аэродроме Тузель в 15 километрах от узбекской столицы.

О числе самолетов и времени их прибытия пока не сообщается.

Ранее руководство Узбекистана уже опровергало сообщения о достижении договоренности с США о предоставлении аэродромов для американских бомбардировщиков

Source
http://lenta.ru/terror/2001/09/22/airwar/

[nobody]

Mdaaaa, endi Uzb. ni holiga maymunlar yiglaydi.

Amerika will bomb Afganistan, using our land and air. We lived with Afganistan for thousand years in peace. Actually there were times we were own country. But now both countries in deep shit. In one of them people kill each other, while another provide killers its support. It sux.

I see some people are happy here that situation. People in Afganistan are our Brothers and Sisters. And we will help to kill them. :(((

Some say here that the US is going to bomb only camps and Taliban and kill only bin Ladin and Mulla Omar. Don't be stupid guys. They know and we also know a lot of people is gonna die from the hands of Americans. Most of them will be innocent people.
And who told you that Afganistan will not uprise again some day and revenage us for our help to killers? Even the US will kill all of people in Afganistan, somebody will revenage us , killing innocent people. Somebody will do it for our betrayal.
Some guys here mention Juma Namangoniy. LOL. You think you will destroy him and you will be safe? Don't you think somebody else will appear on his place if you don't stop oppression on Muslims in Uzb?
Kasalni davolash kerak, ogrigan joyni chopib tashlash yoki yulib olishdan hecham foyda yok.

Bad days are goming to the ehad of our people and country. Brother is going to kill his brother.

So, the supporters of the US attack give the evidence that Bin Laden did that terror attack? None of you can give any clear evidence. There is just some people who are arrested and who are muslim and know how to fly. Is it your evidence?

You are happy because the war will take the lives of a lot of muslims and they will be persecuted everywhere in the world. I hate this, because i know how it is hard to be persecuted for nothing.

I turn only to Allah SWT to help us and to protect Muslims.

Stupid guys, celebrate your triumph. Be happy that your neighbour is going to be dead from your hand.

[SUN6500]

Be rest assured nobody, your "brothers" in arms that killed 6000 innocent people in WTC in New York will be destroyed. And you and your pro-Taliban, pro-terrorist people will get annihilated. You live in a total dillusional state of mind that sees nothing but a blind hatred for anybody who does not share your visioin of culture and religion. You know that Bin Laden is guilty as hell but you defend him blindly only because he does share your vision of terror. Those people in WTC did nothing to you or to Bin Laden. So far US helped those starved people of Afghanistan with grain and food, and this is how Bin Laden & Co repayed them. That's fine, your sick mentality is going to get you. I wish MI5 would pay more attention to those radical terrorists in UK so they could kick you and people like you back to Afghanistan where you indeed belong to rot!

[Cute1]

Agree with Sun but , we are really in deep shit. This is all because of our so called "brothers and sisters". **** them all. hudo qarg'agan bulani. :(((

[SUN6500]

Indeed, Cute1. We are now involved. But Juma Namangani who happened to be a henchmen of Osama Bin Laden and a leading commander of Taliban has already put out his goal as coming to Uzbekistan and turning the entire country to hell. So, sooner or later we would have faced him, and the 'later' one would have been the one with all out Taliban troops with Namangani as a commanding officer. We have a chance now to enlist the US, Europe and other countries as our allies and end this game once and for all. I know that US doesn't give a squat about Uzbekistan, but it is now, and we need to use this situation terminate those radical terrorista fanatics that pose eache year a threat to a stability of our country. I don't want to see Uzbekistan as an Afghanistan, in shambles and terrorist, brainfart Islamic radicals as a ruling force, imposing their view on a society. I know that people like 'nobody' would just love to see this to happen to our country. But I bet it won't be happening. Their hatred will be their executioner.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Wassup Guys!!! (How is it goin' aka SUN6500 ;) )
According to the latest toll of the deads 25% of victims were Muslims or of Muslim background. Dear "Nobody", who ever did that, they show no mercy to even their brothers and sisters. I agree with most of your opinions Cute and SUN5600. However, there are some stuff that I can't agree. Since 1989, after the Soviet departure, the war has been going on, primarily because of Russian, American and Central Asian States' involvement in Afghanistan's internal affairs. USA and Former Soviet Union are equally responsible for the shit goin' on in Afgnaistan, they left 1.7 million deads and about $6billion worth of weaponary behind them. Afghanistan has become a "polegon" for many different countries and forces under different commitments and intentions. Whoever helps our enemy becomes our personal enemy(taliban movement has already recruitted J.Namangani), that's why "Nobody" we should cooperate with the US to eradicate terrorists and those who are behind them. It is obvious that Uzbekistan has a chance to stabalize the region at a far less cost, to gain world recognition in participating in antiterrorist acts, to allure lots of the investors back to Uzbekistan (plus to get lots of Funds from the US and NATO countries in the form of Weaponary, personnel training), to gain access to Indian Ocean and finally to have a new democratic state as neighbore in the south. All we have to do is just to cooperate with positive forces both outside of and inside of Afghanistan. Lastly, SUN5600, "nobody" does not deserve such a harsh treatment. And you do not have a right to make offensive statments to anybody unless he does so directly to you. Besides, he is also against terrorsim, killing innocents and mass destruction. I heard a lot this statement, "Kichik o'grilar qo'lga tushib jazo oladi, ammo katta o'g'rilar hecham qo'lga tushmaydi (for some unknown reasons :( ) " I am just wondering when the larger "fishes" are gonna be punished, ;)

Cheers, :)

[SUN6500]

Agreed Lucky. I aplogize if I made any harsh statements. But see what he says:

"Stupid guys, celebrate your triumph. Be happy that your neighbour is going to be dead from your hand"

Well, I am wondering who is triumphing, now ? New York and the entire US is in mourning because of 6,333 innocent people died because of this attack. Two of my friends died in WTC and they for sure didn't deserve to die. One of them left a little daughter as an orphan. Now, who is celebrating ? By far as I know they're Taliban supporters who are celebrating indeed. Before defending Taliban, he has to think what he is blabbing out. I didn't see him condemn a terrorist attack that is leading to Bin Laden. No Sir, he is defending him. And it is quite obvious on what side of a river does he stand.

And one more statement of:

"Kasalni davolash kerak, ogrigan joyni chopib tashlash yoki yulib olishdan hecham foyda yok."

You're better off amputating a cancerous finger or it will spread to other parts of your body, if you want to live!

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Thanks SUN5600,
Guys it is time and necessary to put aside the differences and to unite against International Terrorism. United we do STAND and separated we do LOSE. (Hail Democracy!!!)
Cheers, :)

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Condemns Attacks Against Civilians: Forbidden in Islam



DOHA, Qatar, Sept 13 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks against civilians in the U.S. Tuesday and encouraged Muslims to donate blood to the victims of the attack.

In response to the bloody attack against civilians in the U.S., Sheikh Yusuf issued a statement Wednesday saying that:

"Our hearts bleed for the attacks that has targeted the World Trade Center [WTC], as well as other institutions in the United States despite our strong oppositions to the American biased policy towards Israel on the military, political and economic fronts.

"Islam, the religion of tolerance, holds the human soul in high esteem, and considers the attack against innocent human beings a grave sin, this is backed by the Qur'anic verse which reads:

Who so ever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and who so ever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind," (Al-Ma'dah:32).

"The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said, 'A believer remains within the scope of his religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally'," the prominent scholar said.

He added that haphazard killing where the rough is taken with the smooth and where innocents are killed along with wrongdoers is totally forbidden in Islam. No one, as far as Islam is concerned, is held responsible for another's actions. Upon seeing a woman killed in the battlefield, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, denied the act and said: "That woman shouldn't have been killed anyway!".

Even in times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill anybody save the one who is indulged in face-to-face confrontation with them. They are not allowed to kill women, old persons, children, or even a monk in his religious seclusion.

Qaradawi then asserted that is why killing hundreds of helpless civilians who have nothing to do with the decision-making process and are striving hard to earn their daily bread, such as the victims of the latest explosions in America, is a heinous crime in Islam. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have stated that a woman was qualified to enter Hell because of the cat she locked up to death.

"If such is the ruling applied in protecting animals, no doubt, aggression against human beings, a fortiori, deserves greater protection, for human beings are honored by Allah Almighty and are His vicegerents on earth," he added.

Al Qaradawi said, "we Arab Muslims are the most affected by the grave consequences of hostile attack on man and life. We share the suffering experienced by innocent Palestinians at the hands of the tyrannical Jewish entity who raze the Palestinian homes to the ground, set fire to their tilth, kill them cold-bloodedly, and leave innocent orphans wailing behind.

"With this in mind, the daily life in Palestine has become a permanent memorial gathering. When Palestinians face such unjust aggression, they tend to stem bloodletting and destruction and not to claim the lives of innocent civilians."

"I categorically go against a committed Muslim's embarking on such attacks. Islam never allows a Muslim to kill the innocent and the helpless.

"If such attacks were carried out by a Muslim - as some biased groups claim - then we, in the name of our religion, deny the act and incriminate the perpetrator. We do confirm that the aggressor deserves the deterrent punishment irrespective of his religion, race or gender," he added.

"What we warn against, even if becomes a reality, is to hold a whole nation accountable for a crime carried out by a limited number of people or to characterize a certain religion as a faith giving support to violence and terrorism," Qaradawi said.

Qaradawi clarified that when the well-known Oklahoma incident was carried out by a Christian American, who was driven by a personal interests, Christianity, America or even the Christian world, were not accused of the attack because a Christian masterminded it.

"Instead we should concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly. It is not permissible, as far as Islam is concerned, to shift confrontation outside the Palestinian territories. This is backed by the Qur'anic verse that reads: "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loves not, aggressors," the renowned Muslim scholar concluded.

[SUN6500]

In case you guys missed yesterdays broadcasting about women of Afghanistan "Beneath The Veil" in CNN, please make a time to see it today, Sunday, Sept.23, 7PM EDT. Believe, me it will turn your world upside down!

DISCLAIMER: THIS BROADCASTING CONTAINS GRAPHICS OF VIOLENT NATURE. DISCRETION IS STRONGLY ADVISED.

[nobody]

SUN6500 (Sep 22, 2001 16:35):
Be rest assured nobody, your "brothers" in arms that killed 6000 innocent people in WTC in New York will be destroyed. And you and your pro-Taliban, pro-terrorist people will get annihilated. You live in a total dillusional state of mind that sees nothing but a blind hatred for anybody who does not share your visioin of culture and religion. You know that Bin Laden is guilty as hell but you defend him blindly only because he does share your vision of terror. Those people in WTC did nothing to you or to Bin Laden. So far US helped those starved people of Afghanistan with grain and food, and this is how Bin Laden & Co repayed them. That's fine, your sick mentality is going to get you. I wish MI5 would pay more attention to those radical terrorists in UK so they could kick you and people like you back to Afghanistan where you indeed belong to rot!

I am sorry Sun6500 that your friends died in WTC attack, but you know very well that it was nor me neither my friends who did it. Thats why its unfair to blame me on everything.
You pretend as you didn't understand me or you really didn't understand me. All i said was about civilians. I didn't say anything about Taliban and Bin Laden. I didn't defend neither of them. i repeat again i am sorry for innocent civilians. And you know very well many many innocent civilians is gonna to be killed. I just wanted that we would not had our "contribution" in this massacre.

As for Taliban and Bin Laden, why you are so sure that they did it? No, i am not defending them, but where is the evidence? Even Bin Laden did it , first America must show evidence before doing something. Because , the matter is about the lifes of civilians. If America can prove that its up to him what to do.
Or may be you were with him ( Laden ) when he did it, because you are so sure about it.

You say i live in disillusioned state of mind, but what about yourself? You even don't want to listen to others.
And indeed they will achieve what they want who did it. They could rise hate againist Islam. And there is "reason" to massacre Muslims and aside them in every aspect of the life.

Btw, MI5 doesn't follow blind feelings and they have brain to differenciate "terrorists" with ordinary people.

Chill down. First think who might do that and why. Don't listen to only CNN. There is other people in the world, there are other sources in the world, there are others opinions in the world.
America is not God and CNN is not His messenger.

And the pictures of showing Palastenians celebrating something were caught in 1991 when Iraq invaded Quwait. There is a lot of proof that fake "terrorist attack by Muslims" , but the thing is not to much people want to accept it. Because, it will set aside their plans to massacre Muslims.

P.S. Btw, my roots belong to the very land of Uzbekistan. I can assure you that it is more defenite than your roots.

[nobody]

I forgot to tell that you are blind by your revange and are not able to make your conclusions from the history.

We have a chance now to enlist the US, Europe and other countries as our allies and end this game once and for all.

LOL man, do you really believe that they care about us, about Uzbekistan?

Anyway, time will show everything itself. All what can i do pray and wait. ( Don't worry Sun6500, I am not going to pray for you , as once i said (about myself) "God Forgive" you were so "delighted" that you delivered "youre thanx" immadiately to me. LOL man. I think you have problem distinguishing whom about the talk is going on.)

[SUN6500]

For your information, I am not listening only to CNN. The very broadcasting I watched yesterday was initiated by BBC.

"America is not God and CNN is not His messenger."

Ha! That's the only language you can converse on.

"And the pictures of showing Palastenians celebrating something were caught in 1991 when Iraq invaded Quwait. "

And there are pictures as well as video footage when those were celebrating when two WTC got hit. Now, tell me that those pictures were fabricated (ha!)

"P.S. Btw, my roots belong to the very land of Uzbekistan. I can assure you that it is more defenite than your roots"

For real ? Your roots in Uzbekistan ? It really doesn't look like it judging from your attitude.

"LOL man, do you really believe that they care about us, about Uzbekistan? "

- They do now. And I hope we will use them against your brothers in arms.

"Anyway, time will show everything itself. All what can i do pray and wait. ( Don't worry Sun6500, I am not going to pray for you , as once i said (about myself) "God Forgive" you were so "delighted" that you delivered "youre thanx" immadiately to me. LOL man. I think you have problem distinguishing whom about the talk is going on.)"

Good going, bro. But I think you should pray harder. And please do pray god so he can somehow enlighten you who the real evildoers are, so he can face up to the facts like a man take it without jumping back and forth.
And speaking of blind revenge, you should be more concerned about blindly defending the guy who happened to have up to his ears in blood of innocent people ( Yeah, you guessed, its your hubby Bin Laden).
Finally, about MI5, don't worry about this firm dude, they'll get notified.

Best of luck (not)

[Surgeon]

Американские солдаты уже в Ташкенте, о чем так долго говорилось уже свершилось.(по данным www.gazeta.ru от 24.09.2001)
Ждем развитие дальнейших событий...

[independent]

Prognoz dalneyshih sobitiy:

http://argument.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/story.jsp?story=95376

SUN6500,

O'pkangni bosib olsang bo'lardi bola. Nimaga bunaqa jahl qilasan. Inson hoh amerikada o'lsin hoh O'zbekistonda, inson baribir inson, hammaning ko'ngli achiydi. Nima Afg'onistondagi insonlar insom emasmi? Yoki Amerika yoki Ukning soldatlari inson emasmi? Urush bo'lsa ko'proq odam o'ladi, siyosatchilarga esa bitta chang ham ust-boshiga o'tirmaydi urush bo'layotgan joylardan...

Yoki Amerikaning maqsadi tolibonlarni yo'q qilish bo'lsa, yo'q qilsin, ammo maqsadini oldindan aytsin. Hech aytmaganda "tolibonlarni yo'q qilish maqsadimiz emas" demasin. Bunga ham ahamiyat ber. Senga o'hshagan har narsaga ishonaveradiganlar tiqilib yotibdi, situatsiyani bundoq analiz qilishga kelganda Nobodyga o'hshaganalarni Laden b-n homtovoq qilasan. Vasyok ekansan qisqasi. Eng kamida, hali maktabga borib 4-5 sinf partasida o'tirib kelishing kerak deyman.

Kim hohlamaydi IDUning yo'q bo'lishini? Kim hohlamaydi tolibonlarnini o'rta asr, extremist rejimini yo'q bo'lishini? Hamma hohlaydi, men ham. Tolibonlar Vahobiylarning bir boshqa ko'rinishi, vahobiylarning esa hech qanaqa din bilan bevosita bog'liqligi YO'Q! Bu aniq. Bilvosita bog'liqligi bo'lsa ham. Vahobiylar saudi arabistonda, AQSHning o'zida va o'sha joylardan tolibonga o'hshaganlarga yordam berib vahobiylik toza din deb senga o'hshagan molokososlarga o'rgatilib kelinadi. Vahobiylarning kuchayishiga esa inglizlar aybdor - bu fakt, a tolibonlarni 1998 yilgacha podderjka qilgan esa Amerika emasmi?
Qiqasi, senga bularni aytishga vaqt ketkazmayman, baribir foydasi yo'q, sen brainwashedsan - ko'rinib turibdi.

Bilib qo'y, senga o'hshaganlarning gapiga na hristian, na musulmon na yahudiy kiradi. Eshitmadingmi Papa Ioan II ning Qozoqistondagni gaplarini - urush qilmaslik kerakligini, har qanday konfliktni tinch yo'l b-n hal qilish kerakligi haqida gapirganligini.

O'ylama, men ashadiy pazifist emasman, ammo konfliktni tinch yo'l b-n hal qilish mumkin bo'lganda urushga qarshiman. Nobody dalillar haqida gapiribdi, to'g'ri fikri. UKda ham Germaniyada ham dalillar haqida pressada siyosatchilar ancha gapirayapti. Nobody ham - sendan farqli - o'zining dunyodan habardorligini bildiribdi, buning nimasi yomon???

[independent]

SUN6500,

agar nemischani tushunsang o'qib chiq, balki yordam berar. Bilmasang, so'ra bittasidan tarjima qilib bersin.

Der Nullpunkt und die Saudi Connection

Key word: bin Laden is a Wahhabi !

wie den ägyptischen und algerischen "islamischen Gruppen", hat mit dem Islam oder der islamischen Zivilisation nicht mehr zu tun als Pearl Harbor mit dem Buddhismus oder die Ulster Terroristen - was immer sie auch verkünden mögen - mit dem Christentum. Echte Christen töten nicht und verkrüppeln auch nicht vorsätzlich Unschuldige; praktizierende Muslime bereiten sich nicht für das Paradies vor, indem sie Stripteaselokale besuchen, wo sie sich betrinken, wie dies von einem der Terroristen der letzten Woche berichtet wird.

Die Attacken des 11. September sind mit der orthodoxen muslimischen Theologie einfach nicht vereinbar, denn der hält die Kämpfer "auf dem Wege Allahs" dazu an, ihre Feinde von Angesicht zu Angesicht zu bekämpfen, ohne Unbeteiligte - Frauen und Kinder - dabei zu schaden. Nicht nur sind die Mehrheit der Muslime - sowohl in Amerika und Großbritannien, wie auch auf der ganzen Welt - eindeutig gesetzestreue Bürger ihres Landes; Präsident Bush und andere amerikanische Führer haben dies dankenswerterweise unterstrichen. Diesseits des Ozeans will niemand jene oft beklagte Internierung der Japaner im Jahre 1941 wiederholen.

Dennoch ist das zahlenmäßige Übergewicht der Muslime als Täter derartiger abscheulicher Vergehen kein Zufall. Wir müssen uns also fragen, was diese Männer zu solchen Monstern gemacht hat? Was hat diese gewaltige Tendenz in der zweitgrößten Religion der Welt - in Amerika ist sie die am schnellsten wachsende Religion - ausgelöst? Kommt sie wirklich von einem Streit über ein Stück Land im Nahen Osten?

Dem Westen erscheint es naheliegend - mit den Kreuzzügen beginnend - in der Vergangenheit nach Antworten zu suchen. Fragt man jedoch gebildete, fromme, traditionelle und zugleich in die Zukunft blickende Muslime, was ihre Umma, d.h. weltweite Gemeinschaft der Muslime, in diese Richtung getrieben hat, so werden viele mit einem Wort antworten: der Wahabismus. Es ist dies ein Zweig des Islam, der weder zur Zeit der Kreuzzüge, noch zur Zeit der anti-türkischen Kriege des 17. Jahrhunderts, sondern vor weniger als zweihundert Jahren entstand. Er ist gewalttätig, intolerant und über die Maßen fanatisch. Er stammt aus Arabien und ist die offizielle Theologie der Golfstaaten. Der Wahabismus ist die extremste Form des Fundamentalismus, seine Anhänger werden Wahabiten genannt.

Nicht alle Muslime sind Selbstmordattentäter, alle muslimischen Selbstmordattentäter sind jedoch Wahabiten - alle außer vielleicht einige atheistisch-linke Anhänger, die sich aufgrund ihrer Machtinteressen taktisch als Muslime ausgeben, wie z.B. Yasser Arafat oder Saddam Hussein. Der Wahabismus ist die islamische Entsprechung des extremsten protestantischen Sektenwesens. Er ist puritanisch, er verlangt Bestrafung für alle, die Musik hören - ausgenommen die Trommel - für alle, die Alkohol trinken oder sich sexueller Übertretungen strafbar machen. Diejenigen, die nicht beten werden als Ungläubige verdammt, eine Sichtweise, die es im klassischen Islam so nicht gegeben hatte.

Es ist ein ausgemergelter Islam, mit einfachen, kurzen Gebeten, schmucklosen Moscheen und beseitigten Grabsteinen (für die Wahabiten verführen verzierte Moscheen und Friedhöfe zu falscher Anbetung). Weder gestatten die Wahabiten die Anbringung des Namens des Propheten in den Moscheen, noch feiern sie den Geburtstag des Propheten. Wie die Protestanten die Verehrung von Wundern und Heiligen verwerfen, so hassen die Whabiten jeden Prunk der Geistigkeit.

Ibn Abdul Wahhab (1703-1792), der Gründer dieses totalitären Islamismus, wurde in Uyaynah geboren, in jenem Teil Arabiens, der Nedschd genannt wird (Riyadh befindet sich dort) und vor dem schon der Prophet ausdrücklich gewarnt hat, wonach er eine Quelle der Korruption und der Verwirrung sein würde. (Anti-Wahabitische Muslime nennen den Wahabismus die Fitna an-Nadschdiyya oder auch "Unheil aus dem Nedschd".) Seit dem Beginn der Rechtsauslegung von Wahhab im späten 18. Jahrhundert, wurde sein Kult mit dem Massenmord all jener in Zusammenhang gebracht, die sich ihm widersetzten. Die Wahabiten fielen beispielsweise 1801 in die Stadt Qarbala ein und töteten in den Straßen und auf Märkten 2000 gewöhnliche Bürger der Stadt.

Im 19. Jahrhundert nahm der Wahabismus die Form des arabischen Nationalismus gegen die Türken an. Der Gründer des saudischen Königreiches machte den Wahabismus zum offiziellen Staatsglauben. Viel ist über die Rolle der Vereinigten Staaten bei der "Schöpfung" Osama bin Ladens gesagt worden, indem sie die afghanischen Mudschaheddin finanziert haben; genauso viel oder noch mehr Kritisches könnte jedoch über die Briten gesagt werden, die drei Generationen zuvor die wahabitischen Araber in ihrer Revolte gegen die Osmanen unterstützten. Der arabische Hass auf die Türken vereinte sich mit den Tiraden der Wahabiten gegen die "Dekadenz" des osmanischen Islam. Tatsächlich regierte der osmanische Kalif über eine multinationale Umma, in der große Unterschiede lokaler Kulturen und Traditionen toleriert wurden. Der Wahabismus kennt diese Toleranz nicht, weswegen die Anwesenheit der US-Truppen auf saudischem Boden bin Laden derart erzürnt.

[independent]

Bin Laden ist ein Wahabi. Ebenso wie die Selbstmordattentäter in Israel. Ebenso wie seine ägyptischen Alliierten, die jubelten als sie vor wenigen Jahren in Luxor Touristen erstachen und ihre Arme bis zu den Ellbogen in Blut tauchten und dabei blasphemisch-ekstatische Schreie ausstießen. Ebenso wie die algerisch-islamistischen Terroristen, deren Beitrag zur Reinigung der Welt darin bestand, Menschen zu ermorden, die sich der Sünden der Benutzung eines Filmprojektors oder des Lesens einer säkularen Zeitung schuldig gemacht haben. Ebenso wie die den Taliban ähnelnden Guerillas in Kaschmir, die Hindus ermorden. Die Iraner sind keine Wahabiten, was ihre langsame aber unleugbare Hinwendung zu Mäßigung und Normalität erklärt, nachdem sie eine Periode des Utopismus und Puritanismus erlebt hatten. Die Taliban praktizieren eine Variante des Wahabismus. Wie die Wahabiten bedienen sie sich altertümlicher Strafmaßnahmen - wie der Hinrichtung für moralische Vergehen - des Weiteren haben sie eine primitive und ängstliche Sicht der Frauen. Gleiches gilt für die Herrscher Saudi Arabiens. Dieser Extremismus ist durch keinerlei Machenschaften der USA in der Welt inspiriert, genauso wenig hat er mit der Tragödie zu tun hat, die Israelis und die Palästinenser heimgesucht hat.

Die Wahabiten haben jedoch zwei Schwächen, die dem Westen beinahe unbekannt sind, sozusagen eine Achillesferse an jedem Fuß. Die Erste ist die Tatsache, dass die überwiegende Mehrheit der Muslime weltweit friedfertige Menschen sind, die es vorzögen in ihren eigenen Ländern eine Demokratie westlichen Zuschnitts einzurichten. Sie verabscheuen den Wahabismus wie jede patriarchalische Kultur den Bruch mit der Tradition ablehnt. Und dies ist der Punkt, den man verstehen muss: Bin Laden und andere Wahabiten verteidigen keineswegs islamische Traditionen; vielmehr stehen sie für einen ultraradikalen Bruch zugunsten einer sektiererischen Utopie. Deshalb sind sie am ehesten noch Islamfaschisten zu nennen, obwohl sie viel mit den Bolschewiken gemein haben.

Der bengalische Schriftsteller Zeeshan Ali hat die Lage auf ergreifende Weise beschrieben: "Wie überall auf der Welt, so halten auch die Muslime aus Bangladesh in der USA an ihrem traditionellen islamischen Glauben fest; aufgrund von mangelnder Sachkenntnis schweigen sie jedoch, wenn ihre Überzeugungen von Wahabiten in den USA angegriffen werden, die plötzlich zu "besseren" Muslimen als andere werden. Diese Wahabiten gehen sogar so weit, ihre eigenen Väter der Häresie, der Sünde und des Unglaubens zu bezichtigen. Die Kinder dieser Immigranten sind nur dieser einseitigen Version des Islam ausgesetzt und glauben schließlich, dies sei der einzige Islam. So entsteht ein großer Spalt, der mit jedem Tag des Schweigens zunimmt." Die Jungen stehen so zwischen der Tradition und dem Ruf nach dem Neuen, entscheiden sich für die "islamische Revolution" und verschreiben sich so ihrer Selbstzerstörung, die mit Massenmord einhergeht.

In der 10 Millionen starken muslimischen Gemeinschaft Amerikas machen sich die selben Einflüsse bemerkbar, wie in Europa. In den Vereinigten Staaten, schätzt der im Libanon geborene Sufi Hischam al-Kabbani, der heute in der USA lebt, dass 80% der Moscheen unter der Kontrolle der Wahabiten stehen; sie predigen den Extremismus. Dies führt zum nächsten Schwachpunkt: Obwohl bin Laden geschworen hat, die königliche Familie der Saudis zu zerstören, werden die Wahabiten von Saudi Arabien finanziert. Mehr oder weniger wie Stalin dies während des Zweiten Weltkrieges getan hat, so spielen auch die Saudis seit Jahren ein Doppelspiel mit dem Westen. Sie geben vor Alliierte im gemeinsamen Kampf gegen Saddam Hussein zu sein, während sie überall, wo Muslime zu finden sind, die Ideologie des Wahabismus verbreiten, ebenso wie Stalin sich für eine "antifaschistische" Koalition mit den Vereinigten Staaten aussprach und gleichzeitig Spionage und Subversion auf amerikanischem Territorium betrieb. Das Motiv ist das Gleiche: der Glaube, dass der Westen dekadent und zum Untergang verurteilt sei.

.

[independent]

Bei der amerikanischen Diskussionen über den Terrorismus wird eine Frage nie gestellt: Welche Rolle spielt Saudi-Arabien? Die Frage kann nicht gestellt werden, weil amerikanische Firmen zu sehr vom ununterbrochenen Zustrom saudischen Erdöls abhängig sind und amerikanische Politiker mit saudischen Politikern mittlerweile auf zu vertrautem Fuße stehen.

Eine weitere Ursache dafür, dass diese Frage nicht gestellt wird, liegt in dem Umstand, dass es viele amerikanische Geistliche entblößen würde, wenn bekannt würde, wie stark der Einfluss der Saudis und Wahabiten auf die amerikanischen Muslime ist. Dennoch ist es die bedeutsamste Frage, die sich die Amerikaner heute stellen sollten. Wenn wir bin Laden loswerden, mit wem haben wir es dann zu tun? Seyed Vali Nasr, ein Professor der Politikwissenschaft an der Universität von Kalifornien, in San Diego und Autor einer bedeutenden Studie über den islamischen Extremismus in Pakistan, antwortete darauf: "Wenn die USA dem radikalen Islam begegnen will, so muss sie sich mit Saudi-Arabien beschäftigen. Die ŒSchurkenstaaten‚ (Irak, Libyen etc.) spielen bei der Radikalisierung des Islam im Vergleich mit Saudi-Arabien eine untergeordnete Rolle. Saudi-Arabien ist der mit Abstand wichtigste Verursacher und Unterstützer von Radikalisierung, Ideologisierung und allgemeiner Fanatisierung des Islam."

Soweit wir heute wissen, scheint nicht einer der Selbstmordpiloten in New York und Washington ein Palästinenser gewesen zu sein. Sie scheinen alle Saudis, Bürger der Golfstaaten, Ägypter oder Algerier gewesen zu sein. Es wird berichtet, dass zwei der Täter die Söhne des früheren zweiten Sekretärs der saudischen Botschaft in Washington gewesen sind. Nach Amerika wurden sie lange vor dem Ausbruch der letzten palästinensischen Intifada versetzt; ihre Konspiration scheinen sie sogar während des kurzen Aufblühens des Friedensprozesses im Nahen Osten begonnen zu haben. Anti-Terror-Experten und Politiker des Westens müssen sich nun mit der Saudi Connection befassen.

Stephen Schwartz ist der Autor des Buches "Intellectuals and Assassins", das bei Anthem Press erschienen ist

[SUN6500]

Manga qara, Independent, mani o'pkam bilanchi ishing bo'lmasin. San bor toshiyni ter, manga aql o'rgatmasdan, bolakay!

Maqsadini Amerika oldindan aytgan, avvalombor.

--"Nima Afg'onistondagi insonlar insom emasmi? Yoki Amerika yoki Ukning soldatlari inson emasmi?"

Manga qara ? Nimaga to'g'dan kevossan ? Kim etti Afg'onlar odam emas deb ? Shimoliy ittifoq Toliblarga qarshi kurashvotti shekilli ? Nimaga bo'tga UKni qo'shvossan ? O'zi gapiradigan gapiyni tuturig'i bormi, oshna ?

--"Bilib qo'y, senga o'hshaganlarning gapiga na hristian, na musulmon na yahudiy kiradi"

Yo'g'e ?? Rostana ?? Qating bilan fol ochvossan ?

--"Senga o'hshagan har narsaga ishonaveradiganlar tiqilib yotibdi"

Sanga o'xshagan puchlar ham ancha muncha. Bunga izohning hojati yo'q!

--"Qiqasi, senga bularni aytishga vaqt ketkazmayman, baribir foydasi yo'q, sen
brainwashedsan - ko'rinib turibdi."

Wow, brainwashed ? Did you f@k**g know the very definition of this word, pal ? Is this the most fancy word in your vocabulary and you kinda want to flash it left right to show people what a smartass you are ?
Brainwashed is someone like you know ignores facts and keeps on repeating even though they're making a total fool out of themselves.

Bottom line what I was saying all along and quite perhaps couldn't get it (I wonder why), was that once Northern Alliance is defeated, Juma Namangani will spearhead to Ferghana valley without a doubt. Now, he won't be just coming with his 5,000 troops. He will be commanding 55,000 strong Taliban army whom he is already partially in charge, and the world wouldn't give a damn about it. We have now the opportunity to destroy IMU altogether with its training camps in Afghanistan. And if you're so ignorant to see it, or perhaps you chose to be ignorant, be my guest. Stay where you are, and I'll be holding my stance.
Next time, simmer down, pal. I ain't your brother.

[SUN6500]

Finally, your Deutche article tells me nothing unknown. Its all about Saudi connection and Saudia Arabia being a culprit of it all. The main conversation here is to get US help Uzb. to get rid of IMU and help Northner Alliance to defeat Taliban altogether (duh, pay attention I said Taliban and not Afghan people). Next time you'll be on line from Fachhochschule Offenburg pay attention what people are really talking instead blabbing out pure smoking Scheiъe.

Regards

[independent]

SUN6500,

vasyok so'kinishlaring befoyda.

AQSH tolibonni yo'q qilish maqsadi emas ekanligini aytdi.
Agar o'zlariga shunday maqsad qo'ysa urush uzoqqa cho'ziladi va afg'on halqi ancha azob chekadi va ancha begunoh soldatlar o'lib ketadi. Nazarimda, hozirgi AQSH hukumati bunga yo'l qo'ymaydi.

Shimoliy Al'yansni ishlatsa, afg'on halqiga yanada battar bo'ladi, chunki urush undan ham ko'pga cho'ziladi va bunga men qarshiman. Ohiri tolibonlar yo'q bo'lish bo'lmasligi ham noaniq.

IMU esa tolibonlar yo'q bo'lmaganicha kuchi vaqtinchalik zaiflashsa ham, yordam olib recruiting qilib yana ko'payib oladi. Demoqchiman-ki, problema echilmaydi. Ammo gapim noto'g'ri bo'lsa yahshi bo'lar edi albatta!

Nemischa maqolani o'qib kerakli hulosalar chiqara olmaganliging achinarli. Ayniqsa sen haqimda on-spot aytgan gaplarim to'g'ri shekilli. Ammo noto'g'ri bo'lishini istagandim.

Maqolada ushbu bo'layotgan narsalarning hammasiga Vahhobiylik ayblangan. Ya'ni problema vahhobiylik, simtomlari esa tolibonlar, psevdo-musulmon kamikadzelar.
Sen buni tushunmading shekilli.

Tog' - bo'gdan kelibsan debsan. Ya'na bir bor aytaman, but tog'-'bog'dan kelish emas, problemani vaqtida UK va AQSHning noto'gri siyosatlari yuzaga keltirgan - ya'ni vahhobiylikni. Bin Laden ham vahhobiy, maqolada ham aytilgan. IMUdagilar ham. Tolibonlar ham vahhobiylarning bir turi, rejimi ko'rsatib turibdi buni. Bularni sen tushunmabsan.

Hozir urush bo'ladigan bo'lsa, ahvol undan battar yomonlashadi. Vahhobiylar qolayveradi, Saudlar va ularning AQSH va Gulf'dagi linklari boshchiligida. Ular bu illatni boshqa joylarga, finansirovat qilib, tarqatishda davom ettirishadi - qisqasi problema echilmaydi. IMU masalasi ham, tolibonlar masalasi ham, psevdo-musulmon kamikadzelar masalasi ham.

Balkim, gaplarimni endi tushungandirsan.

P.S. Menga bunaqa jahl qilma, seni tanimayman. Faqat fikrlaringga nisbatan fikr bildirdim. Und wenn du deutsch verstehst, pass auf wann du mit der wörter umgehst. Kann was passieren? Wer weiss? Und was kommt und von welcher Seite zuerst? In solche Sachen kann man nichts vorhersagen.

[Surgeon]

Что дальше....

[SUN6500]

Vasyok ? Ot Vas'ka slishu.

-"AQSH tolibonni yo'q qilish maqsadi emas ekanligini aytdi."

Haha, buni taqriz so'ragan edilar, marhamat, o'zlari ifoda etibdilarku, huh ?

Shimoliy alliance o'z harakatlarini anchadan buyon davom ettirib kelmoqda. Urush cho'zilganiga ancha bo'lganligi ham hammaga ayon. Shu tufayli bu yerda qo'yilgan "fg'on halqiga yanada battar bo'ladi" degan gaplar safsata. Chunki mundan battar bo'lishi mumkin emas.

--"IMU esa tolibonlar yo'q bo'lmaganicha kuchi vaqtinchalik zaiflashsa ham, yordam olib recruiting qilib yana ko'payib oladi. Demoqchiman-ki, problema echilmaydi. Ammo gapim noto'g'ri bo'lsa yahshi bo'lar edi albatta!"

Noto'g'ri. Xuddi shu paytda IMU Afg'onistonning shimoliga peredislokatsiya qilingan. Undan maqsad o'sha Shimoliy Alliancga qarshi kurash. Demak IMU Shimoliy alliancga qarshi kurashadi, shuning uchun uni tor-mor etish ancha on'g'ay.

-- "Maqolada ushbu bo'layotgan narsalarning hammasiga Vahhobiylik ayblangan. Ya'ni problema vahhobiylik, simtomlari esa tolibonlar, psevdo-musulmon kamikadzelar. Sen buni tushunmading shekilli."

Maqolani o'qidim, va tushundim ham. Shuning uchun ham senga ikku jumlada maqola asosan terrorism o'chog'i Saudi Arabistonida ekanligini kor'satganini ham Inglizcha yozdim.

UKning odami odam emasmi degan gapni o'zi yakkam dukkam fikr ekanligini bildiradi. Asosiy diqqat e'tibor terroristlar va shu jumladan, Juma Namangoni va Osama Bin Laden to'g'risida edi. Bu tepada aytib o'tilgan mulohazalarda yaqqol namoyon. Shuning tufayli befoyda Toshmatni xalqi xalq, Eshmatni xalqi xalq emasmi degan gaplar bekorga ketadi. Meni ishim yo'q agar Tolibonlar vahobiylarning bir turimi yo'qmi. Agar o'zining oshini oshab, yoshini yashab tegmaganga tosh otadigan bo'lmasa bemalol yasaversin, ularga hech kimning ishi yo'q. Ammo fakt shuki ular IMUni to'la qo'llab quvvatlashmoqda. Bu esa, mamlakatimizga tahlil soladi. Gap ularning qaysi mahsabga tegishli ekanligida emas, balki ularning juda iflos hatti harakatida.

-"Balkim, gaplarimni endi tushungandirsan."

Balki sen ham mening gaplarimni tushungandirsan. Yo'qsa, qaydan o'qi.

P.S. Meni tanimas ekansan menga "opkani bosishni" o'rgatma. Fikrlarimga javob bermoqchi bo'slang marhamat.
You need sources? You'll have 'em. Just keep on checking your daily news websites, I am sure they'll pop up.

[independent]

SUN6500,

>"afg'on halqiga yanada battar bo'ladi" degan gaplar >safsata. Chunki mundan battar bo'lishi mumkin emas."

Afg'onistonda shu vaqtgacha ancha halqaro yordam tashkilotlari ishlab kelayotgan edi. Shim. al'yansga yordam berilsa urush tobora kuchayib boradi va binobarin hech qanday yordam tashkiloti mamlakatda ish yurita olmaydi. Urush esa, uzoqqa cho'ziladi. Menimcha, afg'on halqining ahvoli juda yomonlashadi, ya'ni ocharchilikdan o'limlar ko'payadi.

Boshqa tarafdan, shim. al'yansdagilarning tolibonlardan qaysi tarafi yahshi ekanligi haqida katta so'roq belgisi qo'ysa bo'ladi. U yoqda ham ayollar paranjida, u yoqda ham 7 ta heroin laboratoriyasi ishlab turibdi ekan. Dostum esa, adashmasam kommunist.

Tolibonlar yashayversin debsan. Rejim davom etaversin degan ma'noni bersa k-k bu? Unda UZBda ham, butun O'. Osiyo regionida ham sotsial va iqtisodiy ahvol yomonlashsa yomonlashadi, lekin yahshilanmaydi. Afg'onistonda, biz uchun ham va butun region uchun ham, birinchi navbatda tinchlikka va ikkinchi navbatda ishonarli hukumatga ehtiyoj katta. Agar vahhobiylikning urug'i qurutilmasa tolibonlar ham yo'q bo'lishi qiyin (doim podderja olib turishadi), IMU bo'lmasa yana boshqasi chiqadi va kamikadzelar ham yo'q bo'lmaydi. Ko'payish hafvi ham yo'q emas nazarimda.

Menga qara, amerikaliklar bombalashni boshlashsa "mana bu erda tarihiy yodgorlik bor ekan" - deb o'tirishmaydi va keyinchalik surhandaryo vohasi b-n bog'liq turizmni o'ldirishadi ham; bu begunoh qancha insonlarning "tasodifan" o'limi b-n birga albatta. Amerikaning metkiy pilotlarining hunaridan habaring bo'lsa k-k: yugoslaviyada Hitoy elchihonasi, passajir poezdi, Kosovoda qochoqlar kollonasi (traktorlarda).

Sen tushundim debsan. Shubha qilaman. Sen faqat simtomlarni problema qilib ko'rayapsan, problema esa qolib ketayapti. IMU kratkosryojniy yo'q bo'lishi m-n albatta, ammo hammasi ham afg'onistonda emasdir hozir - bu tarafini ham hisobga olish k-k. Terroristlar hozir ancha aqlli bo'lishgan, eng kamida 11 setyabrdagi fojiyadan keyin bilsa bo'ladi buni.

AQSHga esa baribir, Saudiyadan neft oqib tursa bo'ldi ularga. Sen ham huddi shunday, ya'ni ulardek o'ylaysan: tolibonlar jim yursa bo'ldi. Aytib qo'yay unisi ham bunisi ham bo'lishi 100 dan 1 foizni tashkil qiladi: Saudiyadan chiqqan terroristlar (yoki ular tayyorlagan "kadr"lar) AQSHning o'zida va boshqa yerlarda va huddi shuningdek tolibonlar ham tinch bo'lish ehtimoli juda kichik.

Shu tepadagini nazarda tutib seni "brainwashed" degan edim oldingi message'larning birida. Ya'ni kapitalist idealogiyasi b-n miyang sug'orilgan degan ma'noda. Ho'p mayli, buni o'qimadim deb hisobla, peace k-k.

Qolgan narsalarni esa, sen maslahat berganingdek daily yoki weekly newsdan qarab boramiz.

P.S. Bilishimcha Vahhobiylik mashab emas, bunga "terror guruhi" termini ko'proq yaqin bo'ladi.

[independent]

SUN6500,

nobody bin ladenning bu ishga bog'liqligining isboti haqida
gapirganda uni bir narsalarda ayblashni boshlaganding. Isbotni faqat nobody emas, ko'pchilik istayapti - civilized world degani shunaqa bo'ladi. O'qi:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/inv.us.nato/index.html

[SUN6500]

Xo'sh taqsir demak Tolibonchilarning to'la to'kis Ag'onistonga hukmronlik qilishi tarafdori, shundaymi ? Demak kelinglar, butunlay uzaylik Shimoliy Alliancga bo'layotgan yordamni. Butun Ag'oniston Tolibon ta'sirida bo'lsin. Ammo, Juma Namangoni Tolibon harmiy qismlariga qo'mondonlik qilayotganidan xabaring bo'lsa kerak albatta, shundaymi ? Xo'sh bundan chiqadigan javob, Juma Namangoniyni to'la qo'llab quvvatlashishga qaratilgan. Chunki Juma Namangoni Tolibonlar qaramog'i ostida, shunday ekan, Tolibonlarning butun Ag'onistonga hukmronlik qilishi bu asli o'sha Juma Namangoniyni oshig'ini olchi qilishidan iborat xolos.

--"Tolibonlar yashayversin debsan. Rejim davom etaversin degan ma'noni bersa k-k bu? Unda UZBda ham, butun O'. Osiyo regionida ham sotsial va iqtisodiy ahvol yomonlashsa
yomonlashadi, lekin yahshilanmaydi "

Iya, buni qanday tushunsa bo'ladi ? Hozirgina Shimoliy Alliancga yordam berishga qarshi chiqqan shaxs qanday qilib ushbu mulohaza yuritayapti ? Demak, Tolibon yo'qolishi kerak shundaimi ? Agar Tolibon siyosati davom ettirilishi yomon bo'lsa uni bir yoqlik qilish lozim. Uni bir yoqlik qilish uchun Shimoliy Alliancga yordam berish kerak.

--"Agar vahhobiylikning urug'i qurutilmasa tolibonlar ..."

Vahobiylik bilan ishim yoq. Agar tinch yurib, odamlarni o'ldirmay, o'z siyosatini boshqalarga majbur qildirmay yuraversa meninig bu bilan ishim yo'q. Din siyosatga aralashmasligi kerak. Siyosat va Din bu ziddiyatga olib keladi.

--"Menga qara..."

Xo'sh qaradim, xizmat ?

-- "mana bu erda tarihiy yodgorlik bor
ekan" - deb o'tirishmaydi va keyinchalik surhandaryo vohasi b-n bog'liq turizmni o'ldirishadi ham; bu begunoh qancha insonlarning "tasodifan".."

Tarixiy yodgorlik ? Qachondan Tolibon tarixiy yodgorlikni saqlab kelar ekan ?? 2000 yillik Buddha haykalini portlatib yuborishuvdi, o'shami ? Juda kulgili...

-- "Sen tushundim debsan. Shubha qilaman."

Bemalol.

-- "Shu tepadagini nazarda tutib seni "brainwashed" degan edim oldingi message'larning birida. Ya'ni kapitalist idealogiyasi b-n miyang sug'orilgan degan ma'noda. Ho'p mayli, buni o'qimadim deb hisobla, peace k-k."

Hech qisi yo'q. Men ham senga nisbatan brainwashed deganimda Tolibonchilarning Islom ideologiyasini qo'llab quvvatlovchi, o'sha "tupurilgan" kapitalistlarning texnologiyasini ishlatib, kiyimini kiyim, vrachlaridian foydalanib o'zini yomon otliqqa chiqargan bir shaxs deb oylagan edim xolos. Sen ham o'qimadin dep hisobla.

-- "P.S. Bilishimcha Vahhobiylik mashab emas, bunga "terror guruhi" termini ko'proq yaqin
bo'ladi."

Bemalol, bu sani ishing.

[independent]

SUN6500,

bitta narsani aytaman va bu mavzuni o'zim uchun yopaman:

men bu muammoning tinchlik, diplomatiya yo'li b-n hal bo'lishi tarafdoriman, ammo bu borada konkret nima qilinish kerakligini, afsus, bilmayman. Tolibonlar yo'q bo'lsa do'ppimni osmonga otaman. IMU, Juma Namangoniylarga o'hshagan vahhobiylar yo'q bo'lib, boshqa bunaqa terroristlar bo'lmasligi tarafdoriman (huddi senga o'hshab). Buning uchun esa, boshida Saudiya Arabistoni bo'lib vahhobiylikni o'z idealogiyasi deb qabul qilib uni butun dunyoga targ'ib qilib kelayotganlarga qarshi chora ko'rilishi k-k deb o'ylayman.
Shu o'rinda AQSH faqat iqtisodiy foyda ko'rish yo'lidagi Saudiya b-n hamkorligi noto'g'ri ekanligini ta'kidlab o'tmoqchiman. Vahhobiylik davom etarkan, dunyoning har bir chekkasida terroristlar havfi davom etadi deb - boshqa manbalarga asoslangan holda - ta'kidllamoqchiman.

O'zbekiston Respublikasining, boshqa O'rta Osiyo mamlakatlari bilan birga, AQSH iqtisodi darajalariga chiqishini, lekin ma'naviy tarafdan AQSHdan ustun bo'lishini ustayman. Men AQSH va Germaniyadagi qadr-qimmat tushunchalarini juda hurmat qilaman. Va Germaniyda ishlab chiqarilgan kiyimlarni kiyib, vrachlarining hizmatlaridan ham, kerak bo'lib qolsa, jon-jon deb foydalanaman. Va bir-kun O'zbekiston ham, technologiya va umuman iqtisodiy rivojlanish borasida Germaniya standartlarga erishar deb orzu qilaman.

Va eng so'ngida sen baribir ham vasyok ekansan demoqchiman.

[SUN6500]

Juda yaxshi fikr Independent,

Ammo Saudia Arabistonini qanday qilib vahobiylikni tarqatishga qarshi harakatni Amerika yoki Evropa davlatlari o'z boyniga olishmaydi. Bunga qarshi juda oddiy qilib Saudia Arabistoni "Bill of Rights" ko'rsatishi, va o'z xududida o'zi istagan dinni ibodat qilishi huquqi borligini ta'kidlaydi. Shunday ekan, bunga qarshi yagona kurash o'sha din orqali, vahobiylikni salbiy taraflarini ko'rsatish orqali kurashiladi.

--"Men AQSH va Germaniyadagi qadr-qimmat tushunchalarini juda hurmat qilaman."

Yo'g'e, oshna, rostana ? Tolibonning teshik kovushini afzal ko'rasanmikinsan deb o'ylagandim.

--"Va bir-kun O'zbekiston ham, technologiya va umuman iqtisodiy rivojlanish borasida Germaniya standartlarga erishar deb orzu qilaman. "

Qoyil! Axborotdan bo'ldiyu buyag'i.

--"Va eng so'ngida sen baribir ham vasyok ekansan demoqchiman."

LOL! Tirraqi buzoq degani shunaqa bo'lar ekan :D

[Peace]

Mani fikrimcha Ozbekiston rostdan ham kiyin ahvolda.Chunki urush boshlansa bu albatta some day will cause our civiliance.Lekin boshka tarafdan bizani respublikamizga ham ancha ozor berishgan bu terroristlar.Lekin u erda yashaetgan mirniy halkka odam achinadi, chunki ular ham oziga kadrli odamlarni yokotishgan,sizga ohshab masalan Sun6500.Bir kunmas bir kun doljna ved vostorjevat spravedlivost.Nujno poryadok ustanovit tam,hotya netu ni u kogo na eto prav.Ammo bolib otgan aktlardan foydalanib u erda tolibonlarga karshi urush boshlash mumkin, no u kogo est prooves , chto eto imenno oni sdelali?Mi ved tochno ne znaem.Lekin torisini etsam man ham hammasi peaceful bolishini holar edim, chto bi vse razreshilos bez war.Ved kto dast garantiyu chto in future mi ne poteryaem drugih nam dorogih ludey.Lekin och olish islom dinida ruhsat berilgan , shunisi ham bor.Ya kohechno za to, chto bi terror bil pokonchen.No please biza neutral bolishimiz mumkin-ku.Iloji bor-ku.Switzerland ham World War2da neytral boganku. Maili buni hammasini vakt korsatadi bolla.Glavnoe chto bi tinchlik bilo v nashey strane.Vse vi pravi po kakim-to voprosam,vseh vas mojno ponyat.

[MAN]

Guys, do not forget the fact that today, in Afganistan, millions of Uzbeks live and they are maybe praying for our wise decision, or maybe for merciness. they are undoubtedly under the US BOMBS. I wanna emphasis the point that I not talking about Uzbek Talibans...

Can we avoid from this kind of tragedy?

[Chijik]

Huh, I always thought that uzbeks belonged to the Northern Alliance (do not mix with NATO). So they must be in fact on the same side as USA the rest of the world...

=> I doubt if they are gonna be under the US bombs, unless of course we're talking about the IMU camps...

[nobody]

SUN6500 (Sep 23, 2001 17:50):
For your information, I am not listening only to CNN. The very broadcasting I watched yesterday was initiated by BBC.

LOL man, wuahahahahahahahaha. Before Javanmard made me laugh , now you. Keep it up , i like your anekdotes. LOL , BBC niyam eshitarmish. Mani nima deyman , kobizim nima deydi deb shu aytsalar kerakda a.:))






Good going, bro. But I think you should pray harder. And please do pray god so he can somehow enlighten you who the real evildoers are, so he can face up to the facts like a man take it without jumping back and forth.
And speaking of blind revenge, you should be more concerned about blindly defending the guy who happened to have up to his ears in blood of innocent people ( Yeah, you guessed, its your hubby Bin Laden).

DON'T TEACH ME. If i had ever listened a single word of people likeminded you i would have never came in Britain to study. I din't ask you any advice.

Finally, about MI5, don't worry about this firm dude, they'll get notified.

You know whats difference between you and Bin Laden? No, not beards. If you don't shave 1-2 months you'll become like him or if he shaves he'll become like you. Not, the difference is not that he is in Afganistan and you are in the US. For a few hours he can be in the USA and/or you can be in Afganistan. The only difference between you he blames on everything Americans while you blame on everything Muslims. Otherwise you are the same. Full in hate and stupid crackhead.
Don't teach me what to do. First care about yourself. Thanks to God, I am not a chimp to believe to every cheap arguments which is shown on TV.

Thank you for attention.

LOL, aql orgatamishlar, mr Professor.

[SUN6500]

Oh, really I made you laugh ? :) For real, nobody ? I think you have been so far nervously snkeakring and looking behind you shoulder :D

--"... stupid crackhead"

Ouch! Well, who is the seller of that crack, I wonder ? Pochem Opium dlya naroda, mister ? :D

-- "DONT TEACH ME"

I don't want to teach you, at all. Some people are beyond help. You're feeling good in your world of dillusion. So be it. Rest in peace. :)

--"i would have never came in Britain to study"

Indeed, dude, why did you came to Britain to study ? Why not Peshavar ? Or Kandahar for a change ? What the hell you're doing in the west, Mr.Taliban, err...oh sorry, Mr.Student ? :)

--"You know whats difference between you and Bin Laden..."

And do you know what is the difference between you and Bin Laden ? Practically none. You're sort people like who bluntly declare a jihad for no particular reason, that is full of hatred for people who do not neccessarily agree with their ideas, and who foolishly reject everything under the slogans of "conspiracy against Muslims." You haven't watched the broadcast, or you chose not to watch it consciously. So before you get into hysterical laugh of a madman, try to get to know what was it all about. You're sort of a person who lives in the west, uses technology of a west, enjoys the benefits of the west, but chooses to destroy it.
"Tuzlikni yeb, tuzluqqa tupuradigan" deb shunga aytishgan.

-- "Thanks to God, I am not a chimp ..."

Well... you're a chimp :D

--"cheap arguments which is shown on TV."

Yeah, degrading women worse than an animal and shooting them on a head in a football stadium under psychotic cheers of a mass crows is a "cheap argument" according to our "maulono NOBODY". Ha!

Thank you for your attention (not) :D

[nobody]

LOL man , LOL again.

I didn't expect anything else from you. You can only blame me that i am "terrorist" , i am " Taliban" , that i "killed women" ??? , " shot them" ??? . I heard such a blames even when i was in Uzb. I am not suprised of that. They called my whatever they want , just knowing that i am a muslim. Give the arguments, pls.

And who told you that i am going to destroy or want to destroy the West?
You can laugh as much as you want. But people say " Smeyotsa tot kto smesyotsa posledniy".

You're sort people like who bluntly declare a jihad for no particular reason, that is full of hatred for people who do not neccessarily agree with their ideas...
Plz, give arguments. When i declared jihad to somebody? LOL man, are you not then blind?

"Tuzlikni yeb, tuzluqqa tupuradigan" deb shunga aytishgan.
Whats your argument of that?

Allright man, if i am not
consciously regarding to something, pls, then be yourself consciously and don't blame me on something what i haven't said or even haven't meant.

[SUN6500]

Oh, 'nobody' are you falling into your hysterical madman laughs again ? :D Dude, you should be taking your medication.

--"You can only blame me that i am "terrorist" , i am " Taliban" , that i "killed women"

The very much turning a blind eye on public executions by Taliban that have been shown by Saira Shah's tv documentary and refuting them as a "cheap arguments which is shown on TV" makes you a very much like them. Deep inside of you there is a tiny-winy 'nobody' junior waiving a Taliban flag and wearing wet diapers. So you're what you're, face up the reality, Dr.No.

--"Give the arguments, pls. "

Arguments ? How many more arguments do you need ? TV documentaries are "cheap arguments" according to you, RAWA picture gallery that I posted up are being ignored (I wonder if you'll say they've been montaged by Photoshop), and live witnesses' claims have been turned away, so there is no reason to persuade you. You already made up your mind.


-- "When i declared jihad to somebody?"

Read it carefully, Sherlock. I said 'sort of people.' It means to say you're like them. And given an opportunity you would proudly accept the banner at the streets of Karachi along with your stinker friends. Its just not your time yet, but given an opportunity, you would do without a doubt.

--" ... just knowing that i am a muslim."

Are you trying to build a victim out of yourself ? What a freakin' nerve! I don't care who you are. Taliban is not Muslim, Osama Bin Laden is not Muslim, Juma Namangani is not Muslim. We're talking about fight against terrorists and not Muslims. Don't mix religion with blind fanatism. This is exactly what Taliban wants Muslims to believe and you're contributing to it.

-- "Smeyotsa tot kto smesyotsa posledniy"

Da ya viju tvoyu ulibku 6 na 9. So far you've been "LOL"ing in this thread. Watch out that jaw dude, it may drop off.

--"What's your argument of that?"

You damn well know what I mean. Face it up.

[nobody]

Mdaaa Sun6500. Arguing with you is like smashing own head to the wall. :) Niether arguments, nor references. If i ask about Boqi , u reply me about Soqi.

Ha yahshi, salomat boling tovarish Sun6500.

[SUN6500]

Well dude, you see, talking to you is like talking to a Russian boot. It knows its a boot and wouldn't change its shape into sneakers even if you provide enough arguments, b'se it will disregard those persuasions as "cheap arguments" no matter how many of them you supply. Did you have any references ?? I had mine allright and it was live on TV, and also I had my references off the RAWA picture gallery and stories according to RAWA. How about you dude ?? So far you chose to be Soqi.

Omon bo'ling, mulla teshik.

[cute]

Nobody,
vannenga kirib boshingdagi nerve cellaringni asra, :) TALIBAN mlya lol
Sun man,
bezpolezno s nim sporit

[SUN6500]

Spasibo, Cute.