Xristianlarga Savollar

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Sensatsia-Nasorolarga sawollar

Sawollar:

1) Iyso Masih (alayhissalam)ni nasorolar Ota-Xudoning inson qiyofasida yerga tushgan avatari, ozini jamiki insonlar gunohini qoni bn yuvish uchun qurbon qildi, oghlini, ya'ni ozini qurbon qilish bilan, deb e'tiqod qilishadi, adashgan bulsam toghrilang.

Ota-Xudoga injilda Alloh deb murojaat qilingan ekan...bundan kegin Alloh deb ketovuraman...chunki Koptik Nasorolar ota-xudoni Alloh derkanlar...

Iyso alayhissalamni kozi bn kurgan ammo u 30 yoshiga yetguncha olib ketgan kishilarri holi nima buladi? Ya'ni Ular Iyso Masih, Xudo, Ota-Xudo bizlarning Gunohlarimiz uchun oldi deb bilib ketishmadiku...Iyso masih bilishimcha 30 dan 33 yoshigacha ta'limot berganlar...wa shu dawrda u kishining zamondoshi bulgan millionlab xittoy, arab, hind, wa boshqa kishilar Iyso Masih ozini ular uchun qurbon bulganini bilmay ketdi...ular endi dozaxi buladilarmi, sizzi aqidaizga kura...chunki ular bunga ishonishmadi...???Iltimos shuni tushunib dindoshiz bulishimga kumak bering.

2) Agar Iyso Masih barcha gunohlar uchun ozini qurbon qilgan bulsa, unda men uning xudo ekaniga ishonmasam ham bulavurarkanda...chunki hamma gunohlar kechirilgan, uni xudo demaslik ham nazarimda gunohlarga kira,...agar uning xudo ekanini wa ozining qurbon etkanini tasdiqlamasdan gunohkor bulib dozaxga kirsam unda Iyso Masixxi qoni barcha gunohlarri yuvmagan ekanda...Hatto Xudoning qoni yuvolmaydigan gunoh bor ekanda....???shundaymi???

Ya'ni Iyso Masihga osiy bulishlik gunohini hatto Xudoning oz qoni yuva olmas ekan shundaymi? Demak Iyso Masihhi qoni barcha Gunohlarni yuvmagan ekanda...agar jawobiz buning aksi bulsa, ya'ni uninq qoni hatto shuniyam yuvib ketgan bulsa....unda Muslimon bulib, mujrim, agressor,qotil, qassob nasoro kofirlarini iroqda postdumma qilib tarallabedod qilib yursakam, jannatda doimiz tayyor ekanda? Bu degani barcha dinlar bir...Iyso Masixxi Xudo deyishga xojat youq....Nega Xudo ozini qurbon qilmasdan insonlarri kechirib qoymadi? Obyazatelno jertvo bulishi shartmi???

Xudo nega srazu birdaniga inson bulib kelmadi? chaqaloq bulib tughildi? Bechora odamlarri 30 yil kuttirdi...qanchalari bu haqiqatni eshitolmay dozaxi bulib ketdilar?

Nega aynan eradan oldingi 33 yilda tughildilar? Insonlar yaratilishidan oldin, ozini srazu qurbon qilib, hammani kechirib, jannatga tiqib qoysa bumasmidi? Zachem qonni rasxod qilish deganlariday : ) Shunchalik qonga tashnamikan Xudo???Ozining qonidan oqizmasa insonlar ma'siatda qolib ketarkanmi?

Endi nega Miloddan oldingi 33 yil? Bundan 2 ta xulosa chiqadi...

a) Iyso alayhissalam tughilguncha bulgan hamma odamlar Towratda Uning Xudo ekani wa Inson formasida tushib ozini qurbon qilganiga ishongan, wa Iysoning qoniga ular muhtoj bulmagan...u tughilgandan keyingi odamlar esa shunchalik badbaxt edilarki ularga Iyso Masihning qoni kk...bu mantiqqa toghri kelmaydi...chunki badbaxt/yaramas wa yaxshi insonlar har zamonda ham buladi, keyingi sababi Yahudiylar E'tiqod qiluvchi Tawrotda Iyso Masixxi Xudo ekani wa ozining qurbon etkaniga ishora yoq...10 ta commandmentti ichida yuq...

b) Iyso Masihni Xudo deb taniganlar, Nasoro Mushriklari eng yaxshi insonlar edi, Xudo ozini aynan oshalar uchun qurbon qildi, Iyso Masihdan oldin kelganlar esa mussor arzimas insonlar bulgan, ular baribiram Iyso Masixxi Xudo deb ishonishmas edi....shuning uchun ular ishonmay murtad bulib otib ketishdi...ammo Muso ka'bi payghambarlar, Towratti olgan Payghambar Iyso Alayhissalamni xudo ekanini bilmay otib ketdilar...bu taxmin notoghri bulishi kk...



Shu sawollarimni bir matiqan qarab chiqing iltimos...

3) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Timothy 2:5

da Iyso Masih ozini Alloh wa insoniat ortasidagi kuprik dedi, wa ozini Inson Iyso Masih dedi... songra...unga haworiylardan biri eng avvalgi ta'limot nima deganda shunday jawob berdi:

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, "Shmah Yisrael, Adonay Ilohaynu Adonay Ihad " - Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord. Mar 12:29

Kurib turibmizki avvalgi oyatda ozini Inson degan Iyso Masih bu Oyatda Allohga qul ekanini tasdiq etib, Bizning Allohimiz Yagonadir dedi.

Mana shu oyatlarga qarama qarshi oyatlaram bor Bibliada, ya'ni uni ilohiylashtirilgan oyatlar bor...endi nima uchun men Iysoning Inson ekanligi haqidagi oyatlarni qoyib uning Xudo ekanligi haqidagi oyatlarri dalil qilib olishim kk....Shu gaplarni haqiqatda Iyso Masih etkanligiga dalillar bormi?

Islomiy Aqidaga kura, agar nasroniy kishi Muhammad alayhissalam haqida eshitsa haqni tanisa, Islom dinidagi ustun La ilaha il-Allahni bilsa, aniq tushunsa, ammo Islom dinini haq ekanini tan olmasa, kofir bulib dozaxda abadiy qoladi...ammo Nasroniy-Mushrik Islom haqidasini eshitsa, lekin u haqiqiy islommi tushunmagan bulsa, unga tushuntirmoqchi bulgan odamlarri saviyasi past bulgan bulsa, yoki dindan yolghon gapirgan bulsa, yoki umuman Islom haqida eshitmay bir orolda olib ketgan bulsa...Ularri holatini Alloh hal qiladi qiyomatda, buning dalili mana shu yerda:
The Fate of Kuffar Whom the Message Islaam has not reached (http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=663804&postcount=129)

Mana islom dinidan jawob shu endi...Muslimon Mujohidning oilasida, Iroqda bir bolakay 2 yoshida uyiga USA bombasi tushib nobud buldi...Iyso Masihni tanimasdan qazo qildi...bu bola Jannatga kirmasa adolatsizlik emasmi? Nasroniylikdagi mashxur traditision mazhab, Katolik ta'limotiga kura ular jannatda bulmaydilar.


4) Hich kimga ozori tegmagan...10,000 ta nasroniyni operatsia qilib ularri Iyso Masixga sighinishiga kumak bulishiga sababchi bulib qolgan Ateist yoki Muslimon Neuro Xirurg dozaxi buladimi? Muhammad alayhissalam ham dozaxi buladimi? Muhammad alayhissalamdek Insoniatga ziyo keltirgan odamam dozaxi buladimi?

[2:216]

tushunmadim, shayton va kuffar so'zi qanaqasiga haqorat ekan? Ahir bu so'zlar Quroni Karimda ham keltirilganku to'g'rimi? Haqorat so'z bo'lganda muqaddas kitobda keltirilgan bo'larmidimi???

Keyin, musulmonlar musulmon bo'lmaganni kofir deydi? Bu haqorat so'z emas, bu "termin", to'g'rimi? Ingliz tilida "gentile" degan so'z haqorat hisoblanmaydiku to'g'rimi? Yahudiylar yahudiy bo'lmaganni "gentile" deyishadi.

Buhoriy va Termiziylarni avlodlariga forumda nasroniylikni dava't qilishni haqorat deb bilaman

[Black]

Nima keragi bor ya Akhee? Vaqtingizni foydaliroq narsaga sarflang.
Undan keyin, nasroniy bo'laman deb hazillashib ham aytmang. Rasulilloh :saws: hazil qilsalar ham rost gapirib hazil qilganlar.

Siz bir nimani o'zgartirmoqchi bo'lib harakat qilayapsizmi? Foydasi yo'q. Agar Alloh istamasa baribir foydasi yo'q.

[Fifi]

Nima keragi bor ya Akhee? Vaqtingizni foydaliroq narsaga sarflang.
Undan keyin, nasroniy bo'laman deb hazillashib ham aytmang. Rasulilloh :saws: hazil qilsalar ham rost gapirib hazil qilganlar.

Siz bir nimani o'zgartirmoqchi bo'lib harakat qilayapsizmi? Foydasi yo'q. Agar Alloh istamasa baribir foydasi yo'q.

Haqiqatdan ham hazilni ham o'rni joyi bor. Buvim aytar edilar: " Yaxshi gapga ham yomon gapga ham farishtalar omin deydi",-deb.

Olloh asrasin. Nima keragi bor ekan shunaqa tortishib.
Har kimni dini- e'tiqodi O'ziga deb ketaverish kerak.

[Borz_man]

Har bir tarozni ikkinchi pallasi bo'lganday:
Ahi Abdullohning harakatini tushunsa bo'ladi.
Bir insonni hidoyatiga sababchi bo'lgan inson
dunyo va unung ichidagi hamma narsaga erishgandan
kottaroq mukofot oladi.

Bu hamma harakatlari kimningdur hidoyati sabab bo'lsa
hammamizga foydalik ish bo'ladi.Zero dunyoda 1 ta bedin
inson, ahli islomga o'tsa jamiyat ravnaq tomon siljigan bo'ladi.
Vallohalam.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Akhee Abdullahning nima deganini tushungan holda shuni ta'kidlab o'tmoqchimanki, mano yaxhsi bo'lsa-da uslub juda notog'ridir.

Aqida bo'yicha hatto "Ey kofir" deganda "Labbay" deb javob berish (hazillashib bo'lsada) yoki hazillashib bo'lsada "Men kofir bo'ldim" deyish ta'qiqlangandir. Shundan qo'rqish kerak.

[Fifi]

Har bir tarozni ikkinchi pallasi bo'lganday:
Ahi Abdullohning harakatini tushunsa bo'ladi.
Bir insonni hidoyatiga sababchi bo'lgan inson
dunyo va unung ichidagi hamma narsaga erishgandan
kottaroq mukofot oladi.

Bu hamma harakatlari kimningdur hidoyati sabab bo'lsa
hammamizga foydalik ish bo'ladi.Zero dunyoda 1 ta bedin
inson, ahli islomga o'tsa jamiyat ravnaq tomon siljigan bo'ladi.
Vallohalam.

Har bir narsani o'zini chiroyli yo'li, uslubi bor.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Brodarlar-Jazakum'Allah khairan nasihat wa pand uchun. Alloh uchun sevuvchilargina brodarlariga Alloh uchun nasihat beradilar. Hammalarizning gapiz toghri, sunnatga khilof ish qildim...lekin deyishga asos ham youq...lekin deb bahonalaram bermoqchi emasman....

Tunov kuni Paltalkda edim...dawat bn ushbu uslubda bir brodar dawat qilib nasorolardan Islomga hidoyat qilishiga sabab bulganini kuzatdim....

Ya'ni...u...menga oxshab...qorslik qilmadi, hikmat bn aytdi..."Qadrli mehmon...siz ka'bi men ham haqiqatning tarafdoriman, agar sizning diniz haq ekaniga meni kundira olsaiz, wa fikrizni dalillar bn tasdiqlasaiz, men haq tomonga otishga tayyorman. Hech bir bahs, qiziq, wa foydali bulmagay, magar nohaq tomon oxirida nohaqligini tanigandan song, haq tomonni himoya qilib oshaning ahillaridan bulmasa," deb shart qoydi...Islommi haqorat qilib turgan Nasoro...

"Toghri gapiz, men shu shartga kundim" dedi nasoro, songra men yuqorida sanab otgan sawollarri berdildi...

Allohu Akbar, hidoyat Allohdandir.

Mavzudan uzoqlashdik, dindosh brodar wa opa-singillar...endi nowbatni Nasroniylarga bersak, zora ulardan hidoyat akhli chkib qolsa.

Hidoyatlanganlarga Salom ila.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Akhee-Abdullah, please watch your language, you are doing it constantly! Don't force us to take action!

Iltimos Islomni chiroyli din deb bilsangiz, uni chiroyli axloqda ham ko'rsata oling yoki boshqalarga shunday qilishga imkon bering! Keyingi 2-3 kundagi postlaringizdagi haqoratomuz so'zlarni to'g'rilab charchadim!
Nahotki haqoratsiz chiroyli qilib fikr ifodashlni eplayolmaysiz?!



Assalam alaikum Ulughbek brodar, Mavzuni Ozgartirmoqchi bulvoman chiqmapaytpi, ghalati gaplarri op tashadim, jazakumallah nasihat uchun.

Mavzuni Nasorolarga Sawollar deb qoysak yaxshi bular edi.

Wassalam alaikum wa rahmatullah.

[lyalyapo]

Brodarlar-Jazakum'Allah khairan nasihat wa pand uchun. Alloh uchun sevuvchilargina brodarlariga Alloh uchun nasihat beradilar. Hammalarizning gapiz toghri, sunnatga khilof ish qildim...lekin deyishga asos ham youq...lekin deb bahonalaram bermoqchi emasman....

Tunov kuni Paltalkda edim...dawat bn ushbu uslubda bir brodar dawat qilib nasorolardan Islomga hidoyat qilishiga sabab bulganini kuzatdim....

Ya'ni...u...menga oxshab...qorslik qilmadi, hikmat bn aytdi..."Qadrli mehmon...siz ka'bi men ham haqiqatning tarafdoriman, agar sizning diniz haq ekaniga meni kundira olsaiz, wa fikrizni dalillar bn tasdiqlasaiz, men haq tomonga otishga tayyorman. Hech bir bahs, qiziq, wa foydali bulmagay, magar nohaq tomon oxirida nohaqligini tanigandan song, haq tomonni himoya qilib oshaning ahillaridan bulmasa," deb shart qoydi...Islommi haqorat qilib turgan Nasoro...

"Toghri gapiz, men shu shartga kundim" dedi nasoro, songra men yuqorida sanab otgan sawollarri berdildi...

Allohu Akbar, hidoyat Allohdandir.

Mavzudan uzoqlashdik, dindosh brodar wa opa-singillar...endi nowbatni Nasroniylarga bersak, zora ulardan hidoyat akhli chkib qolsa.

Hidoyatlanganlarga Salom ila.

Menimcha u birodarizdan farqlik sizni holatingiz.
Tahminim buyicha chatta birodaringiz u nasoroni endi kurishi nasoro uni qanday insonligini va kimligini bilmaydi.
Sizni esa bu yerdagi oldingi postlarizni o'qishgan buganligi ehtimoli katta + boshqa threadda postlariz bilan sen nohaqsan mana mana deb youtubedan videola berib chiqdis, ya'ni uni eshitmasdanoq negativ energiya berib yubordingz, keyin bu threadni ochkanizda postingiz kinoyalik ko'ringan bo'lsa ajab emas (menga kinoyalik ko'rindi)
Wallahi A'lam.

Birodarlar nima qilganda ham da'vat qilishni odobimizni to'g'irlashdan boshlashimiz kerak. Payg'ambarimiz s.a.v ning da'vatlariga nazar tashlaylik, ularning da'vatlarini samarali bulishida hulqlari asosiy sabablardan bulganku ahir. Allohim bizga ham shunday insonlarni da'vat qilishda yordam beradigan chiroyli hulq egasi bulishni nasib qilsin.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Birodarlar nima qilganda ham da'vat qilishni odobimizni to'g'irlashdan boshlashimiz kerak. Payg'ambarimiz s.a.v ning da'vatlariga nazar tashlaylik, ularning da'vatlarini samarali bulishida hulqlari asosiy sabablardan bulganku ahir. Allohim bizga ham shunday insonlarni da'vat qilishda yordam beradigan chiroyli hulq egasi bulishni nasib qilsin.

Assalam alikum wa rahmatullah,

Bismillahir Rohmanir Rohiym.

Innal hamdulillah nahmaduhu wa nastainuhu wa nastagfiruhu wa na'uzu billahi min shururi anfusina wa min sayyiati a'malina may yahdihillahu fala mudillallah wa may yudlill fala hadiyala wa ba'ad,

Barcha Alomlar Robbisi bo'lmish Alloh Subhanahu wa Ta'aloga hamdu sanolar wa Ohirgi Paygambari Bo'mish Muhammad (Sallallallohu alayhi wa sallam)ga salowotlar bo'lsin.

Avvalambor nasihat uchun jazakumullah khairan. Albatta Islam dini odobini organishim kk...ancha ishlashim zarur buning ustida.

Singlim mavzuga qol urishdan oldin sizga ataylab etmoqchiman, mening hozir quyida yozadigan gaplarim sizga qaratilgan emas, wa sizzi gapizni iqtibos qilishimdan niyat ham sizga qaratish emasdir.

Aslida sizdan oldingi brodarlarimga qaratilgandir. Endi...mavzu chetda qolib mening xarakterimmi, xarakatimmi tahlil qilish qonimmi qaynatadi..., nega? Kibrdanmi? Balkim...ammo bunday deb oylamayman, kibrdan wa shaytondan bulmasa kk, wallahu a'lam. Alloh ghazablanishdan saqlasin.

Avvalo nasihat pinhona qilinadi, buning uchun PM degan narsa mavjud, nasihat odobiyam shu, jamoa oldida yerga urib nasihat berilmayd. Odobdan maslahat beruvchi brodarlar, nasihat berishdan oldin nasihat berish odobini organsinlar, insha'Allah foydalikdir:

1) Mening niyatimni mavzu nomi aslida buzib kursatibdi. Bu xatolik uchun uzr sorayman avvalo, Allohdan songra mening mavzumdan ranjigan brodarlardan.

Men Nasoro buldim deganim yuq, wal iyadhibillah. Wa Bulish niyatim ham yuq!!! Wa postda hazillashmadimam, mavzu ota jiddiy masaladir, buning sababini quyida oyati karimalar bn tasdiqlaganam bulaman insha'Allah!!! Shartlarimmi oqidiz bu mushriklar men qoygan talablarga jawob bera olmaydi. Ammo bu hazil emas, balki Qur'on ruhiyatidan kuchrilgan haqiqiy talablardir, retorik hazilomuz sawollar emas.

2) Osha nasorolarga qaratib xitob qildim, agar biz zalolatda bulsak, sizlar haqda bulsaizlar, haq ekanizni isbotlang, wa haq yulga ergashay hatto bu Nasoro bulishlikniyam taqozo qilsa.

Ya'ni sizdagi haq gapga ergashay, ammo DALIL KELTIRING deb shart qoydim...Ammo mening yozganimni oqimasdan ba'zi brodarlar,

"Juda qattiq xato, ba'zi brodarlar PM da kufr suz, wa boshqalari esa hazillashibam yolghon etmang"

ka'bi asossiz gaplarri etibdi...boshqalari esa bu Mushriklarri, iflos najislarri, Mushrik deganim uchun menga ogohlantirish bermoqchi bulidilar...

Aslida esa dinda shadid bulish, uni himoya qilish, munofiq, fosiq, kazzob- yolghonchillarri

Quron ham Iso Masihni Hudo so'z yani Kalamulloh deb tan oladi.http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=707537&postcount=83

Ok bro, I'll watch those videos later on. About fear. Frankly speaking I had fear when I was Muslim (fear of death,fear of evil spirits, superstitious fear etc.) but I thank God that I am free from all those fears since I came to Jesus.http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=712543&postcount=103

yerga urish, past qilib tashash, ochirib tashlash bu ahlis sunnat wal jamoaning...dini asoslaridan, printsiplaridan biri. Buni Imom Ahmadning Sunnat Asoslari kitobiga qarasaiz topasiz...

And along with that they (Ahlis Sunnah wal Jamaah, unannimously, ijmaan, ittifaqan) AGREED with their saying about the Ahlul Bid'ah-that they should be subdued, HUMILIATED and disgraced, banished and driven away. Sunnat Asoslari (http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37963)


Endi butta ba'zi brodarlarimiz adabsizlikdayam ayblashibdilar...aslida...la la la la deb qoshiq etib, "baghri kenglik qilib"..., ODOBDAN, Guzal Xulkdan, demokratiya, adolat, kel senam biz senga odob kursataylik deb dindan chiqqa murtadlarri qoliga "mikrofonni" berib torga kutarishganday qilishvotti, aslida bu Odobbi belgisi emas, manhajdagi qusr deb bilaman...wallohu a'lam, adashgan bulsam toghrilab yuboringiz???

Shumi Muslimlarri qoyib Mushriklarga beriladigan izzat? Yana bir bor etaman...bu Nasroniy dinidagilarga emas, balkim Islom dinidan murtad bulib chiqib, xalqqi orasida Islomni obrusizlantirmoqchi bulgan murtad, kofir najislarga qarata etilgan gapdir, chunki bularning asil maqsadiam shu, dini Islommi ustiga axlat tokib, bizzani tortishganimizzi korib yotvolib kulish.

Hey man are you alright? If you want to fight why don't you go to Iraq or Afghanistan and blow yourself up. You waisting your time by posting your "copy and paste". You are off-toping.

Peace to you :)http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=712978&postcount=114

Endi, mavzuga yana bir bor qaytadigan bulsak, bu murtadlarga qilgan xitobim yoki bu kabi xitoblar Islom dini, Qur'on ruhiyatiga zid emasdir aslida (adahsgan bulsam dalillar bn toghrilab yuboring brodarlar),

"Agar haq bulsang, dalil olib kel biz sendagi mavjud bulgan HAQ YUL ga ergashaylik" -qabilidagi oyatlar mawjud. Ayuhannos solishdan oldin, odobni nasihat berayotgan brodarlar, Qur'on waraqlasalar yaxshi bular edi...Endi nima bulsayam Jazakumullah Khayran nasihat uchun, toghrimi notoghrimi olavuramiz....

Masalan bunga misol qilib ushbu oyatlarni keltirish mumkin:

قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِكِتَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ هُوَ أَهْدَى مِنْهُمَا أَتَّبِعْهُ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

Say (to them, O Muhammad SAW): "Then bring a Book from Allвh, which is a better guide than these two [the Taurвt (Torah) and the Qur'вn], that I may follow it, if you are truthful." (Al-Qasas 28:49)

فَإِن لَّمْ يَسْتَجِيبُوا لَكَ فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّمَا يَتَّبِعُونَ أَهْوَاءهُمْ وَمَنْ أَضَلُّ مِمَّنِ اتَّبَعَ هَوَاهُ بِغَيْرِ هُدًى مِّنَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ

But if they answer you not (i.e. do not believe in your doctrine of Islвmic Monotheism, nor follow you), then know that they only follow their own lusts. And who is more astray than one who follows his own lusts, without guidance from Allвh? Verily! Allвh guides not the people who are Zвlimыn (wrong-doers, disobedient to Allвh, and polytheists). (Al-Qasas 28:50)


فَمَنْ حَآجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْاْ نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءنَا وَأَبْنَاءكُمْ وَنِسَاءنَا وَنِسَاءكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَةُ اللّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allвh, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad SAW) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allвh upon those who lie." (Aali Imran 3:61)


ثَمَانِيَةَ أَزْوَاجٍ مِّنَ الضَّأْنِ اثْنَيْنِ وَمِنَ الْمَعْزِ اثْنَيْنِ قُلْ آلذَّكَرَيْنِ حَرَّمَ أَمِ الأُنثَيَيْنِ أَمَّا اشْتَمَلَتْ عَلَيْهِ أَرْحَامُ الأُنثَيَيْنِ نَبِّؤُونِي بِعِلْمٍ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

Eight pairs; of the sheep two (male and female), and of the goats two (male and female). Say: "Has He forbidden the two males or the two females, or (the young) which the wombs of the two females enclose? Inform me with knowledge if you are truthful." (Al-An'am 6:143)

وَقَالُواْ لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ مَن كَانَ هُوداً أَوْ نَصَارَى تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ قُلْ هَاتُواْ بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

And they say, "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." These are their own desires. Say (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ), "Produce your proof if you are truthful." (Al-Baqarah 2:111)

أَمَّن يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ وَمَن يَرْزُقُكُم مِّنَ السَّمَاء وَالْأَرْضِ أَإِلَهٌ مَّعَ اللَّهِ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any ilвh (god) with Allвh? Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful." (An-Naml 27:64)

Endi birinchi keltirilgan oyatga berilgan tafsirda Ibn Kathir Rahimahulloh shunday tafsir beradi: (Then bring a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than these two, that I may follow it, if you are truthful.) meaning, `in your efforts to refute the truth with false arguments.'

Ya'ni agar sening yuling HAQ bulsa, wa sen haqda bulsang, gaping rost bulsa, DALIL keltir, Men Ham shunga Ergashay...xitobi, kufr, shirk emasdir. Balkim Islom ummatining hamisha haq tarafdori bulishlikka hozrmand wa tayyorligi belgisidir.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Dawomi

3) Ular/Murtad-Mushriklar bn butta ancha adi budiga bordik...Shogird #2 dini Islamni haqoratlab, ozingni borib portlatgin anaqa unaqa degan gaplarri qildi... negadir, moderator, uning gaplarini qoyib meni "ogohlantirishga" otib ketdilar : ) endi...mana shutga kelib Islam dinini buzib kursatish...bularning asil vazifasi...chunki butta juda kotta iddao yotibdi...Oddiy bir Nasoro kelib dinini targhib qilsa...manga farqi yuq...ammo butta bir murtad,kofir mushrik kelib "Oldin Islomda edim, endi haqiqatni topdim, Iyso Masihni Robb deb bildim" deb iddao qilishi bn Dini Islomga bilovosita tili wa amali bn hujum qivotti...bevosita bulmasada bilvosita...


Xulosa-

Shu jihatdan bu mavzu ochilgan edi...Tayyorman HAQIQAT ni tan olishga, DALIL keltir faqat dega ma'noda....ya'ni...siz butta iddao qivossiz, Hidoyatdamen deb, shunga dalil keltiring men bergan sawollarga jawob bering, agar haq bulsaiz devomman. Qadrli brodarlar, kritikal thinker bulishlik juda yaxshi...ammo mohiyatti qoyib shakl kritikiasiga otib ketish bu critical thinking emas...

Nima bulgandayam...endi nowbat Murtad kofirlarga, sawollarga jawob kutamiz.

[Shogird II]

Originally Posted by Shogird II
Hey man are you alright? If you want to fight why don't you go to Iraq or Afghanistan and blow yourself up. You waisting your time by posting your "copy and paste". You are off-toping.


Akhee-Abdullah and Muslims in this forum,

I appologize for my remarks and please forgive me if I offended you somehow. I love you all and I just wanted to present you a message that gave me a peace and happiness to my life. This message, God's word saved me from my sins and gave me a promise of Eternal Life. It is up to you to decide for yourselves and thouroughly examine it for yourselves and my duty before the Lord is to present it as accurately as possible because He loves you too.

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Akhee-Abdullah and Muslims in this forum,

I appologize for my remarks and please forgive me if I offended you somehow. I love you all and I just wanted to present you a message that gave me a peace and happiness to my life. This message, God's word saved me from my sins and gave me a promise of Eternal Life. It is up to you to decide for yourselves and thouroughly examine it for yourselves and my duty before the Lord is to present it as accurately as possible because He loves you too.

Shogird#2!!!

First you apologise and then you insult my INTTELLIGENCE by inviting me to worship your friend and lord, Satan, The Great Deceiver!!!

I asked you questions, and ASKED you to PROVIDE ANSWERS to my QUESTIONS and I will side with the TRUTH, IF YOU PROVE TO BE TRUTHFULL!!

I am Waiting for the Proofs!!!


وَقَالُواْ لَن يَدْخُلَ الْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ مَن كَانَ هُوداً أَوْ نَصَارَى تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ قُلْ هَاتُواْ بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

And they say, "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." These are their own desires. Say (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ), "Produce your proof if you are truthful." (Al-Baqarah 2:111)

قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِكِتَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ هُوَ أَهْدَى مِنْهُمَا أَتَّبِعْهُ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

Say (to them, O Muhammad SAW): "Then bring a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than these two [the Taurat (Torah) and the Qur'вn], that I may follow it, if you are truthful." (Al-Qasas 28:49)

[Shogird II]

Yow Mushrik, An Enemy of MY Beloved Iysa Bni Maryam, Yeshya Masheh!!!



Taqsir xafa qilib qo'ysak uzr endi. Aytganimday javobni "chiroyli amallar" bilan ish tutgan va ghazablanmagan odamga beriladi. Sizga javob berishning hojati yo'q, eshitishni hohlamayapsizku.

Dear friend, as I told you before the answers will be given to a person who is truly seeking God and has good atitude in relating to people. I don't have time to play childish games.

Peace to You

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Taqsir xafa qilib qo'ysak uzr endi. Aytganimday javobni "chiroyli amallar" bilan ish tutgan va ghazablanmagan odamga beriladi. Sizga javob berishning hojati yo'q, eshitishni hohlamayapsizku.

Dear friend, as I told you before the answers will be given to a person who is truly seeking God and has good atitude in relating to people. I don't have time to play childish games.

Peace to You

If you do not answer to My Questions, then I will Answer them For You : ) !!!

I Have This Gift For You, Enjoy It and Digest It Well:



Question:

Why do Muslims persist in denying that the Messiah came to redeem us?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

The doctrine of redemption, and the basis of this doctrine which is their belief that the Messiah (peace be upon him) was crucified, is one of the basic doctrines of Christianity, so much so that they would gamble the entire religion on this doctrine. The English cardinal Manning says in his book “Eternal Priesthood”: “The importance of this confusing topic is obvious, for if the death of Christ on the cross is not real, then the basis of the church’s doctrine will crumble from its foundations, because if Christ did not die on the cross, then there is no sacrifice, no salvation, and no trinity… Paul, the Apostles and all the churches say that, i.e., if Christ did not die then there was no resurrection either.”

This is what Paul said:

“And if Christ has not been raised, then preaching is useless and so is your faith.”

I Corinthians 15:14 – New International Version (NIV)

Just as they struggle with their belief in trinity and what it means, and how they can reconcile it with the belief in monotheism which is affirmed in the Old Testament , and just as they also struggle with everything that has to do with the crucifixion and its details, which is the basis of their belief in redemption which they believe is the reason for the crucifixion , we say: as confusion is inevitable for everyone who turns away from the light of revelation that came down from Allaah, similarly they are confused about the doctrine of redemption.

Does redemption mean saving all of mankind, as John says:

“…Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world”

I John 2:1-2 (NIV)?

Or is it only for those who believe and are baptized:

“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned”

Mark 16:16 (NIV)?

The one who studies the life and sayings of the Messiah will see clearly that the call of the Messiah was addressed to the Children of Israel, and that throughout his mission he forbade his disciples to call anyone else. So salvation must have been only for them. This is what we see in the story of the Canaanite woman who said to him:

“… ‘Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.’

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, ‘Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.’

He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.’

The woman came and knelt before him. ‘Lord, help me!’ she said.

He replied, ‘It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs.’”

Matthew 15:22-26 – NIV

The Messiah did not heal the daughter of the Canaanite woman, although he was able to do so, so how could he redeem all of mankind?

Was this salvation from the “original sin” of Adam only, or does it include all of our sins?

But no one can bear the sin of anyone else, or redeem him with his own self, as Allaah tells us in His Holy Book (interpretation of the meaning):

“And no bearer of burdens shall bear another’s burden; and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be lifted even though he be near of kin. You (O Muhammad) can warn only those who fear their Lord unseen and perform As‑Salaah (Iqaamat‑as‑Salaah). And he who purifies himself (from all kinds of sins), then he purifies only for the benefit of his ownself. And to Allaah is the (final) Return (of all)”

[Faatir 35:18]

This is what the texts of their Bible also say:

“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him”

Ezekiel 18:20-21-- NIV

There is no inherited sin (“original sin”):

“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

He who hates me hates my Father as well.

If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father”

John 15:22-24 – NIV

When there is sin – whether a person has committed it himself or inherited it from Adam or from another of his forefathers – can this sin not be erased through repentance?

The people of heaven rejoice over the one who repents like the shepherd rejoices when he finds his lost sheep, and the women rejoices over her lost penny when she finds it, and a father rejoices over his prodigal son when he returns:

“I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.”

Luke 15:7

God promises those who repent that their repentance will be accepted:

“But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.

None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.”

Ezekiel 18:21-23 – NIV. See also Isaiah 55:7

Putting one's trust in one’s lineage without repenting or doing righteous deeds is a kind of madness; if a person’s deeds slow him down, his lineage will not help him to speed up, as our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said. (Saheeh Muslim, 2699)

John the Baptist (Yahya – peace be upon him) taught you the same things:

“You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire”

Matthew 3:7-10 – NIV

Forgiveness of sins through the sinner’s repentance is what befits the kind and merciful God – not sacrifice and crucifixion and the shedding of blood. This is what the Bible says:

“I desire mercy, not sacrifice. For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners (to repentance)”
Matthew 9:13 – NIV

(the words “to repentance” do not appear in the NIV but are present in the “King James” or “Authorized” translation of the Bible).

[Akhee-Abdullah]

Continues here:

Hence Paul says:

“Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.

Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”

Romans 4:7-8 – NIV

We believe that if Allaah had commanded some of His slaves to kill themselves in repentance from their sins, that would not be too much for them to do, and that would not contradict His being kind and merciful. He commanded the Children of Israel to do that when they asked to see God directly, but even then no one was to be killed for anyone else, rather a person was to be killed for his own sins, not for the sins of another. That was the heavy burden and fetters that were upon them (cf. al-A’raaf 7:157), from which Allaah has spared this ummah.

Another matter that disproves the belief in original sin is the texts which mean that each person is responsible for his own actions, as Allaah says in His holy Book (interpretation of the meaning):

“Whosoever does righteous good deed, it is for (the benefit of) his ownself; and whosoever does evil, it is against his ownself. And your Lord is not at all unjust to (His) slaves”

[Fussilat 41:46]

“Every person is a pledge for what he has earned”

[al-Muddaththir 74:38]

Similarly it says in your Bible:

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”

Matthew 7:1-2 – NIV

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done”

Matthew 16:27 – NIV



The Messiah affirmed the importance of righteous deeds, and said to his disciples:

“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'”

Matthew 7:21-22 – NIV

Similarly, he said:

“The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

Matthew 13:41-42 – NIV

He did not tell them of redemption by which they would be saved from the reckoning.

Those who do righteous deeds are the only ones who will be saved on the Day of Resurrection from the reckoning, whilst those who did evil deeds will be carried off to Hell, with no salvation by the Messiah or by anyone else:

“… for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned

John 5:28-29 – NIV

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory…

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels’”

Matthew 25:31-42 – NIV

The Messiah said to them:

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?”

Matthew 23:33 – NIV

Adolf Hernck noted that the epistles of the Apostles did not include the idea of salvation by redemption, rather they suggested that salvation is attained by good deeds, as it says in the Epistle of James:

“What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

… faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

… faith without deeds is useless (or dead).”

James 2:14 – NIV

And Peter says:

“I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right”

Acts 10:34-35

There are many similar examples in the words of the Messiah and the disciples.

Allaah the Almighty has spoken the truth (interpretation of the meaning):

“O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allaah is that (believer) who has At‑Taqwa [i.e. he is one of the Muttaqoon (the pious)]. Verily, Allaah is All‑Knowing, All‑Aware”

[al-Hujuraat 49:13]

What is strange is that Paul himself, who abolished this teaching and said that deeds were to no avail, and that salvation is only by faith, affirmed the importance of righteous deeds on other occasions, such as when he said:

“A man reaps what he sows

… Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up”

Galatians 6:7 – NIV

“and each will be rewarded according to his own labour”

I Corinthians 3:8 – NIV

(For more information on this matter see: Dr Mundhir al-Saqqaar: Hal aftadaana al-Maseeh ‘ala al-Saleeb)

So you have no way of resolving this contradiction unless you ignore your common sense and reasoning, and delude yourself with false wishes, as you do in the case of the doctrine of trinity and unity, which is what John R Stott advises you to do in his book Basic Christianity: I do not dare to deal with this subject, before I admit frankly that a great deal of it must remain a hidden mystery… I wonder how our weak minds cannot comprehend it fully, but there will inevitably come a day when the veil will be lifted and all mysteries will be resolved, and we will see the Messiah as he really is!

… How is it possible that God was incarnated in Christ, whilst making Christ a sacrifice for our sin? I cannot answer this, but the Apostle himself places these two truths side by side and I accept the idea completely, just as I accept that Jesus the Nazarene is human and divine in one person… If we cannot resolve this contradiction or solve this mystery, we should accept the truth as proclaimed by Christ and his disciples, that he bore our sins.”

Basic Christianity, p. 110, 121, quoting from Dr Sa’ood al-Khalaf, al-Yahoodiyyah wa’l-Nasraaniyyah, p. 238.

Yes, you and we will see the Messiah as he really is, one of the slaves of Allaah who are close to Him, and one of His Prophets who were sent, on that Day when the veil will be lifted and he will disavow himself of all those who took him as a god besides Allaah, or who attributed to him words that he did not say. At that time there were no mysteries or puzzles:

“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): ‘O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner‑self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All‑Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

117. ‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world).

118. ‘If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily, You, only You, are the All‑Mighty, the All‑Wise.’

119. Allaah will say: ‘This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) — they shall abide therein forever. Allaah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise).

120. To Allaah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things

[al-Maa’idah 5:116-120]

Will you think about it before it is too late?

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allaah (Alone), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allaah.’ Then, if they turn away, say: ‘Bear witness that we are Muslims’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:64] http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=12615

[Shogird II]

Continues here:

You've just wasted your time for this cut and paste.

Dear friend, as I told you before the answers will be given to a person who is truly seeking God and has good atitude in relating to people. I don't have time to play childish games.

Peace to You

[Akhee-Abdullah]

You've just wasted your time for this cut and paste.

Dear friend, as I told you before the answers will be given to a person who is truly seeking God and has good atitude in relating to people. I don't have time to play childish games.

Peace to You

First of all, I am not your friend, I am your ENEMY : )...let's be honest when we talk with the name of GOD, do not be so cunning, you know what I am talking about : )...And we shall never be FRIENDS on the Religious base unless you repent to Allah and Submit to Him. However, I do not mind being friends with Christians and Jews in the Secular World : ) as long as they do NOT trash my religion, and shovel their dogma down my throat....


“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned”

Mark 16:16 (NIV)

Are you gonna give up on your mission to save the CONDEMNED one??? Be Yourself....!!! Come On...Bring your Proofs...Do not you feel defeated, let me see you guiding people? Let me see how you were GUIDED, do not be stingy, share your knowledge with us.

As for your comment about wasted time:

وَالَّذِينَ يُمَسَّكُونَ بِالْكِتَابِ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ إِنَّا لاَ نُضِيعُ أَجْرَ الْمُصْلِحِينَ

And as to those who hold fast to the Book (i.e. act on its teachings) and perform As-Salat (Daily Prayers), certainly, We shall never waste the reward of those who do righteous deeds. (Al-A'raf 7:170)


يَسْتَبْشِرُونَ بِنِعْمَةٍ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَفَضْلٍ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُضِيعُ أَجْرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

They rejoice in a Grace and a Bounty from Allah, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers. (Aali Imran 3:171)

Please, one more time, DO NOT INSULT MY intelligence by Wishing me Peace!!!

I love these verses, are my favourite ones:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

(Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

" I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism* to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Luke 12:49-53)

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

(Luke 14:26)

"But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one."

(Luke 22:36 NASB)

PLEASE, Do NOT INSULT MY Intelligence, By TYPING PEACE BE WITH YOU, BUT WISHING War on me.

Your Enemy,

Akhee-Abdullah.

[mavnur]

qanisila shogirdvoyla?