Arab yoki Ajam??

[Professor]

Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It's an Arab issue and should be resolved within the Arab fold," said Former Saudi ambassador to Washington Prince Turki al-Faisal at World Economic Forum at the King Hussein Convention Centre at the Dead Sea, Saturday May 19, 2007 in Jordan.

P.S. 4 yil oldin horijda yurganimda, bir arab bilan muammo chiqqanda, uning dusti esa meni dust tutgandi,ushandanorozilashgan arab dustiga qarab u ajam yani arab emasku nimaga men bilan emas u bilan dustlikni davom etirayapsan degandi. Islomda arab, uzbek,eron, turk issue bulmasa kerak, bir ummatmizu!!!

P.S.S Agarda Filistin arablarga hos ekan, mana 40 yildan oshiq insonlar ulimidan nariga utolmaydi usha moderate arablar.

[Demir Kağan]

Palestin..

As you know Arabs betrayed us during World War I. They were Arabs of Palestine, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. After the betray, Arabs in Palestine have never lived in comfort or peace. Jews came, they sold their apartments, their streets and their cities. Jews bought them. And now they are crying.

Due to Mescid-i Aksa is there, Palestine is the problem of the whole Islamic World, not Arabs. Do you think that that Arab told that without knowing that? Absolutely no. This is why he said.

[2:216]

As you know Arabs betrayed us during World War I...

skazal pan-turkist....

[Abu-Hafiza]

Palestin..

As you know Arabs betrayed us during World War I. They were Arabs of Palestine, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. After the betray, Arabs in Palestine have never lived in comfort or peace. Jews came, they sold their apartments, their streets and their cities. Jews bought them. And now they are crying.

Due to Mescid-i Aksa is there, Palestine is the problem of the whole Islamic World, not Arabs. Do you think that that Arab told that without knowing that? Absolutely no. This is why he said.

Yana boshlandi. Nima emish, arablar turklarni sotgan emish. Shuning uchun turklar ham arablarni sotib Isroil bilan hamkorlik qilish kerak emish. Turklar arablarni sotmaganmi? Nima uchun turklar (Yovuz Sulton Salim, timur va boshqalar) Bag'dodni, Mamluklarni, E'ronni (hali e'ron u paytlar shia emas edi), saudiyani va hokazo bosvolgan? Nima uchun Horazmshoh Abbosiylar HALIFALIGIGA isyon qilgan? Bularning hammasini hiyonat, desak bo'lmaydimi?

Undan tashqari Checheniston muammosi faqatgina kavkaz muamosimi? Afg'oniston muammosi faqatgina pashtun muammosimi? Ahir u yerlarda na masjidul aqso na boshqa muqaddas joy yuqku? Nimaga musulmonlar o'z jonini berib u yerda adolat uhcun urushayapti? Demir, erta indin yahudiylar Turkiyaga bostirganida amin bo'lingki arablar keladi yana himoyangizga. O'sha paytda siz va siz kabi "panturkistlar" boshqa "xalq"larning yordamiga muhtoj bo'lib qolasiz. Siz uchun musulmon falastinlikdan ko'ra yahudiylar yaqinroqqa o'xshaydi.

that is other problem, because cooperation between turkey and israel can solve that. when jews and muslims trust each other, we can have a delegation to monitor al-aqsa and others. kudos erdogan!!!

don't let them make islam a solider in the national conflict. we are friends to turkic people. it's the arabs we have a conflict with.

are arabs the only speakers for islam???

Yahudiylik (judaism) "Milliy konflikt"da "askar" bo'lishi mumkinu, Islom bulmasligi kerakmi? Yahudiylarga o'sha sizlar juda yaxshi ko'radigan tarih bo'yicha musulmonlar ishonib kelgan. Natija nima bo'ldi? Mana, har kuni o'nlab begunoh MUSULMON falastinliklar nobud bo'layapti.

ILAH1, when a jew kills a palestinian for no reason, when jews violate international law and destroy the houses of palestinians, when jews are massacring the refugee camps and when the whole world is taking no action and actually supports your compatriots it is a duty for ANY muslim (not just an arab) to stand up for their brothers. Jews would carry on their agression even if inhabitans of Palestine were not arabs but turks, indians or even aboriginals from New Zeland. You cannot deny the fact that zionists want to dominate the whole region saying that it is "God promised land" and saying that killing innocent in there for their aim is their "Biblical rights".

Arab ajam muhokamasiga kelsak, Bilol Habahsiy habashistonlik edi (efiopia), Salmon al Forsiy E'ronlik edi (fors) va arablik hehc narsani ko'rsatmaydi. Millatchilik qay holda bo'lishidna qat'iy nazar (arab millatchiligi, turk millathciligi, o'zbek millatchiligi" eng yuomon illatdir.

Keyin arablarni ayblashdan avval unutmaylikki, Afg'oniston, Checheniston, bosniya va qanchadan qancha ajam mamlakatlarida arab mujohidlar musulmon ajam birodarlarini himoya qilish maqsadida o'z jonlarini tikib jihodga chiqishgan. Biz bo'lsa "forum"da o'tirib bularni muhokama qilib o'tiribmiz "arablar turklarni sotgan" deb, essiz :(

[ILAH1]

ILAH1, when a jew kills a palestinian for no reason, when jews violate international law and destroy the houses of palestinians, when jews are massacring the refugee camps and when the whole world is taking no action and actually supports your compatriots it is a duty for ANY muslim (not just an arab) to stand up for their brothers.


no reason? they are fighting us, we are fighting them!
i could fill the place with gruesome pictures! but i won't.

the world supports us (even half the muslims!) because they know its true! jews and muslims are friends, don't listen to palestinian lies! see bukhara! see baku! see turkey! see the truth for yourself!!!
the same liars that supported russians, btw.

6,000 jews in arab lands today. 180,000 in turkic lands. in 1948, 1,000,000 in arab lands, 500,000 in turkic lands.


Jews would carry on their agression even if inhabitans of Palestine were not arabs but turks, indians or even aboriginals from New Zeland. You cannot deny the fact that zionists want to dominate the whole region saying that it is "God promised land" and saying that killing innocent in there for their aim is their "Biblical rights".


i deny your non-fact. we only want our land to live in. just israel. little piece of land, in a place full of arabs. just one country for jews. our homeland from the bible. land we prayed to for thousands of years.

we have arabs here too and we live in uneasy peace. but that is only because palestinians don't want peace.

i have some arab friends myself, studying with me!

[Demir Kağan]

Yana boshlandi. Nima emish, arablar turklarni sotgan emish. Shuning uchun turklar ham arablarni sotib Isroil bilan hamkorlik qilish kerak emish. Turklar arablarni sotmaganmi? Nima uchun turklar (Yovuz Sulton Salim, timur va boshqalar) Bag'dodni, Mamluklarni, E'ronni (hali e'ron u paytlar shia emas edi), saudiyani va hokazo bosvolgan? Nima uchun Horazmshoh Abbosiylar HALIFALIGIGA isyon qilgan? Bularning hammasini hiyonat, desak bo'lmaydimi?
Yes, Arabs betrayed. Yavuz Sultan Selim conquered there, Hulagu destroyed Bagdad, Timur destroyed Anatolia but those are were just wars, this is not a betrayal. None of those you counted are betrayals. You can re-read what Arabs had done. They were TURKISH soldiers who fought agains the infidels to they could prevent them to enter the holy cities Meccah and Madinah. They were TURKISH soldiers who tied themselves to the tress with their belts to fight in the name of Allah. They were TURKISH soldiers who drunk their pies and ate grasshoppers to protect the grave of the Prophet Muhammet. And they were ARABS who fought against TURKS with English soldiers.

Undan tashqari Checheniston muammosi faqatgina kavkaz muamosimi? Afg'oniston muammosi faqatgina pashtun muammosimi? Ahir u yerlarda na masjidul aqso na boshqa muqaddas joy yuqku? Nimaga musulmonlar o'z jonini berib u yerda adolat uhcun urushayapti? Demir, erta indin yahudiylar Turkiyaga bostirganida amin bo'lingki arablar keladi yana himoyangizga. O'sha paytda siz va siz kabi "panturkistlar" boshqa "xalq"larning yordamiga muhtoj bo'lib qolasiz. Siz uchun musulmon falastinlikdan ko'ra yahudiylar yaqinroqqa o'xshaydi.
Problems in Afganistan, Pakistan, Chechenia are our problem. But also problem in South Azerbaijan which is in Iran is our problem. We never been in need of someone else's help and we will never need! What you said is the most comic thing I have read in this forum and it shows how many knowledge you have about PanTurkists. A muslim is closer to us than a jew. Arabs will come to help us if Jews attack us. They are not even the lastest muslim nation who will help us. Muslims in Bosnia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Chechenia and Africa countries will come but they won't. And we never forget the help of Indian Muslims during our Independence War.

Yahudiylik (judaism) "Milliy konflikt"da "askar" bo'lishi mumkinu, Islom bulmasligi kerakmi? Yahudiylarga o'sha sizlar juda yaxshi ko'radigan tarih bo'yicha musulmonlar ishonib kelgan. Natija nima bo'ldi? Mana, har kuni o'nlab begunoh MUSULMON falastinliklar nobud bo'layapti.
They sold their land.

Arab ajam muhokamasiga kelsak, Bilol Habahsiy habashistonlik edi (efiopia), Salmon al Forsiy E'ronlik edi (fors) va arablik hehc narsani ko'rsatmaydi. Millatchilik qay holda bo'lishidna qat'iy nazar (arab millatchiligi, turk millathciligi, o'zbek millatchiligi" eng yuomon illatdir.
It makes no difference to what nationality you belong if you are muslim. But, PanTurkism is the glorious idea which will bring peace to the whole world as our fathers; Ottomans.

Keyin arablarni ayblashdan avval unutmaylikki, Afg'oniston, Checheniston, bosniya va qanchadan qancha ajam mamlakatlarida arab mujohidlar musulmon ajam birodarlarini himoya qilish maqsadida o'z jonlarini tikib jihodga chiqishgan. Biz bo'lsa "forum"da o'tirib bularni muhokama qilib o'tiribmiz "arablar turklarni sotgan" deb, essiz :(
Yes, Arabs betrayed.

[ILAH1]

Problems in Afganistan, Pakistan, Chechenia are our problem. But also problem in South Azerbaijan which is in Iran is our problem. We never been in need of someone else's help and we will never need! What you said is the most comic thing I have read in this forum and it shows how many knowledge you have about PanTurkists. A muslim is closer to us than a jew. Arabs will come to help us if Jews attack us. They are not even the lastest muslim nation who will help us. Muslims in Bosnia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Chechenia and Africa countries will come but they won't. And we never forget the help of Indian Muslims during our Independence War.


Jews will never attack turkey! we are strong allies. we have no problem with islam, why would we attack turkey?
Jews fight WITH turks AGAINST greeks to defend turkey!

[Demir Kağan]

Because we have lands on your promised lands. If not now, Israel will be a big problem for us in the future. We are friends with the Jewish people but not with zionists. If you remember, we are the one who protected you from Spanist atrocities and we opened our doors everytime you need.

[ILAH1]

Because we have lands on your promised lands. If not now, Israel will be a big problem for us in the future. We are friends with the Jewish people but not with zionists. If you remember, we are the one who protected you from Spanist atrocities and we opened our doors everytime you need.

???
but there are no turks in here, just Jewish turks. so why you wanna destroy israel?
why is israel a problem for you?

[Abu-Hafiza]

ILAH1, I have seen you pictures, believe me, the pictures that I can fill the place with are much more disturbing and much more in quantity.

The demolishing of homes "for new jewish settlements" is "for no reason". The killing of peace activists, the reporters (even the western peace activists and reporters) is for no reason. When you guys use the most modern bombs killing literally thousands of people who ALSO just want to have their own land under no occupation, when people just want to move back to their home taken by force from them, that is for no reason.

Just look at lebanon war. Look at the death toll.
Casualties:
Lebanon: 1233 dead (1187 of them are civilians)
Israel: 162 dead (43 of them are civillians)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War

Now, why is that Israel has rights to kill as many civilians as possible and be a ligitemate country that just wants a piece of land (of course we will forget about israeli agressions agains egypt, lebanon, syria and so on) and lebanese who fought mainly soldiers are considered to be terrorists?

And of course the saint Ariel Sharon massacred 3500 refugees in Sabra and Shatila massacre "just because he wants a small peace of land" in middle east, right? What were you guys doing in Beirut in the first place?

The world supports you because America supports you. this is not a good thing to be proud of my friend. How many resolutins are there agains Israel and how many of them is being ignored by your "peace loving, law obidient" zionists? Hmmmmmm, let me think. ALL OF THEM is being ignored actually. And America vetos any actions agains you guys. Is that because America knows you are right and palestinians are wrong? America was also right about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, werent they?
For list of ignored resolutions, visit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Why dont you chose other land to have your country in? Why dont you get a piece of land in Alaska for example ((c) Ahmedinejat)?

so palestinians dont want peace? This is a radiculus thing to say. Take someones house, take everyting that he owns, leave him in misary in refugee camp, block any aid comming to those place and kill them and say "they dont want peace". Your mentality my friend has a big problem. BIG BIG problem.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Demir, nima deyatganingizni o'zingiz ham bilmaysiz. Endi bundan 100 yil avval yashagan arab unday qildi, deb butun arablarga shunchalik kin qilib, shunchalik nafrat qilib ohirida "musulmon menga yahudiydan yaqinroq" deysiz. O'zingiz arabni o'ldirishga tayyorsiz.

Demir, ban ainanabilirsin, turk milliyetciligi hakkinda sandigindan dah afazla bilgim var. Nihal atsizindan tut Arif Nihat Asiyasina kadar, Alpaslan Turkes, Devlet Bahceli, ne bileyim ne kadar turkcu varsa hepsi hakkinda bilgim var ve hepsinin eserlerini az olsada okumusum. O yuzden ne dedigimi biliyorum. Hele hele senden turkculuk dersleri hic istemem tamammi canicigim?

[Demir Kağan]

Demir, nima deyatganingizni o'zingiz ham bilmaysiz. Endi bundan 100 yil avval yashagan arab unday qildi, deb butun arablarga shunchalik kin qilib, shunchalik nafrat qilib ohirida "musulmon menga yahudiydan yaqinroq" deysiz. O'zingiz arabni o'ldirishga tayyorsiz.

Demir, ban ainanabilirsin, turk milliyetciligi hakkinda sandigindan dah afazla bilgim var. Nihal atsizindan tut Arif Nihat Asiyasina kadar, Alpaslan Turkes, Devlet Bahceli, ne bileyim ne kadar turkcu varsa hepsi hakkinda bilgim var ve hepsinin eserlerini az olsada okumusum. O yuzden ne dedigimi biliyorum. Hele hele senden turkculuk dersleri hic istemem tamammi canicigim?

Sen okuduğunu biliyorsun, ben yaşadığımı; o yüzden susmayı bil. ;)

Why should I kill Arabs? Did I tell something like that? We are talking about something happened in the past. But you are constantly telling me that Arabs didn't betray. They did, that's all.

[ILAH1]

ILAH1, I have seen you pictures, believe me, the pictures that I can fill the place with are much more disturbing and much more in quantity.

The demolishing of homes "for new jewish settlements" is "for no reason". The killing of peace activists, the reporters (even the western peace activists and reporters) is for no reason. When you guys use the most modern bombs killing literally thousands of people who ALSO just want to have their own land under no occupation, when people just want to move back to their home taken by force from them, that is for no reason.


palestinians don't want peace. settlements bad, but not all of israel!!!
fight is bad, but we are not the only one to blame.


Just look at lebanon war. Look at the death toll.
Casualties:
Lebanon: 1233 dead (1187 of them are civilians)
Israel: 162 dead (43 of them are civillians)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War

Now, why is that Israel has rights to kill as many civilians as possible and be a ligitemate country that just wants a piece of land (of course we will forget about israeli agressions agains egypt, lebanon, syria and so on) and lebanese who fought mainly soldiers are considered to be terrorists?


more civilians killed because war is in lebanon and not israel. no apology for being stronger!!! all countries wanted to destroy israel! israel fight back and win! not our fault they lost! not want to kill civilians, but that's war!


And of course the saint Ariel Sharon massacred 3500 refugees in Sabra and Shatila massacre "just because he wants a small peace of land" in middle east, right? What were you guys doing in Beirut in the first place?


palestinian terrorists come to lebanon, start attacking israel! until then, was quiet! no war! peace with lebanon! palestinians destroyed lebanon!


The world supports you because America supports you. this is not a good thing to be proud of my friend. How many resolutins are there agains Israel and how many of them is being ignored by your "peace loving, law obidient" zionists? Hmmmmmm, let me think. ALL OF THEM is being ignored actually. And America vetos any actions agains you guys. Is that because America knows you are right and palestinians are wrong? America was also right about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, werent they?
For list of ignored resolutions, visit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel

Why dont you chose other land to have your country in? Why dont you get a piece of land in Alaska for example ((c) Ahmedinejat)?


lies and more lies. UN puppet for leftist think-know-all europeans, hypocrit arabs and more. but turkic genuine friends.
Israel eternal homeland for jews, everybody know that. alaska isn't.


so palestinians dont want peace? This is a radiculus thing to say. Take someones house, take everyting that he owns, leave him in misary in refugee camp, block any aid comming to those place and kill them and say "they dont want peace". Your mentality my friend has a big problem. BIG BIG problem.

it is our land too. they didn't want to share. their problem. try harder they will just lose more. but we still want peace and they don't.

you have big mental problem! you no friend! you wanna kill israel, you come do it by force! but other muslims and friends will stop you, because they know you are a liar!!!

[Abu-Hafiza]

I didnt say that arabs didnt betray turks, in fact I know that some of the arabs did. But you are forgetting that it was done in the HISTORY some 100 years ago and you know nothing about the state of muslims, turks, arabs and so on during those times. Should we hold palestinian innocent dead people acocuntable for what their ancestors did? Should uzbeks be responsible for the crimes Timur have committed for example? No. What I am trying to say is that you should stop bringing up the hatret towards arabs. I denounce arab nationalism as well, dont forget that.

Bu arada benim turkculuigu yasayip yasamadigim hakkinda bir sey bilmiyorsun, o yuzden susmayi sen bileceksin kardescigim, beni taniyormusun?

[Abu-Hafiza]

palestinians don't want peace. settlements bad, but not all of israel!!!
fight is bad, but we are not the only one to blame.



more civilians killed because war is in lebanon and not israel. no apology for being stronger!!! all countries wanted to destroy israel! israel fight back and win! not our fault they lost! not want to kill civilians, but that's war!



palestinian terrorists come to lebanon, start attacking israel! until then, was quiet! no war! peace with lebanon! palestinians destroyed lebanon!



lies and more lies. UN puppet for leftist think-know-all europeans, hypocrit arabs and more. but turkic genuine friends.
Israel eternal homeland for jews, everybody know that. alaska isn't.



it is our land too. they didn't want to share. their problem. try harder they will just lose more. but we still want peace and they don't.

you have big mental problem! you no friend! you wanna kill israel, you come do it by force! but other muslims and friends will stop you, because they know you are a liar!!!
Funniest thing I have ever read in this forum my friend. Learn how not to contradict yourself. UN puppet for leftist think-know-all europeans? This was amazing. Who built israel anyways if not those "leftist think-know-all europeans"?
So you actually SUPPORT israeli agression agains lebanon and CIVILLIAN casulties? Well, as far as I recall.... hmmmmmmmm... lets think.... didnt israel actually LOSE the lebanon conflict? did you free your captive soldiers for example? after all, you went there with 30,000 strong army facinf an opposition of only 1000 active fighters.

Take your dirty israeli propaganda somwhere else, everyone knows who does palestine belong to and what nation at present is under OCCUPATION.

[ILAH1]

Funniest thing I have ever read in this forum my friend. Learn how not to contradict yourself. UN puppet for leftist think-know-all europeans? This was amazing. Who built israel anyways if not those "leftist think-know-all europeans"?


they flip-flop all the time. doesn't matter. if they don't help make, we make ourself.


So you actually SUPPORT israeli agression agains lebanon and CIVILLIAN casulties? Well, as far as I recall.... hmmmmmmmm... lets think.... didnt israel actually LOSE the lebanon conflict? did you free your captive soldiers for example? after all, you went there with 30,000 strong army facinf an opposition of only 1000 active fighters.


it's because of syria running war against us from lebanon. we not want to fight lebanon. not support, sad they died, but syria is at fault!!! hezbollah not speak for all lebanese. go read yourself!


Take your dirty israeli propaganda somwhere else, everyone knows who does palestine belong to and what nation at present is under OCCUPATION.

take your lies and fiction elsewhere. israel strong friend to turkic countries. everybody knows that. you wanna ruin friendship. you not scare me, friendship strong and you not destroy.

[Abu-Hafiza]

ILAH1, you my friend have got loads to learn about your own religion, country and ideology.

So it is Syria to blame for lebanon, palestinians to blame for the settlements and for the fact that they are under occupations, think-know-all europeans to blame for UN sanctions and for balant ignoring of them by Israel, egypt's fault for the israely aggression agains egypt in six day war, people in beirut are guilty for the massacre of Sabra and Shatila and jews are innocent angels? May be turks are guilty of all that, after all, Erdogan government has presented Arafat the title deeds (tapu in turkish) for tha lands in Israel issued during ottoman empire? Or may be it is pigmeys from Africa who hate jews and thats why they are stiring the arab-jewish conflict in middle east? You are funny did anyone tell you that?

[Demir Kağan]

I didnt say that arabs didnt betray turks, in fact I know that some of the arabs did. But you are forgetting that it was done in the HISTORY some 100 years ago and you know nothing about the state of muslims, turks, arabs and so on during those times. Should we hold palestinian innocent dead people acocuntable for what their ancestors did? Should uzbeks be responsible for the crimes Timur have committed for example? No. What I am trying to say is that you should stop bringing up the hatret towards arabs. I denounce arab nationalism as well, dont forget that.

Bu arada benim turkculuigu yasayip yasamadigim hakkinda bir sey bilmiyorsun, o yuzden susmayi sen bileceksin kardescigim, beni taniyormusun?

Timur had no crimes. ;)

It may be 100 years ago, but they are still betrayer. We didn't forget the ASALA's home place was Lebanon. ;) Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon are paying what they must...

Eğer Türkçü olsaydın, şimdi bana burada doğruyu savunurdun, o kadar yüreğin olurdu. ;)

[ILAH1]

ILAH1, you my friend have got loads to learn about your own religion, country and ideology.


teach me oh dear patron!


So it is Syria to blame for lebanon


partially.


palestinians to blame for the settlements


no.


and for the fact that they are under occupations


yes. its not occupation. israeli arabs don't wanna leave. palestinians don't want peace.


think-know-all europeans to blame for UN sanctions and for balant ignoring of them by Israel


never any sanctions. just stupid decisions. same europeans let russia oppress x10 muslims.


egypt's fault for the israely aggression agains egypt in six day war


they declared war. they lost.


people in beirut are guilty for the massacre of Sabra and Shatila


yes. christians kill palestinians. we stay on the side. sharon also guilty but much less.


and jews are innocent angels?


no but not satan like you say.


May be turks are guilty of all that, after all, Erdogan government has presented Arafat the title deeds (tapu in turkish) for tha lands in Israel issued during ottoman empire?


turks friend to israel. stop trying to make fight!!!


Or may be it is pigmeys from Africa who hate jews and thats why they are stiring the arab-jewish conflict in middle east?


no.


You are funny did anyone tell you that?

you are not funny, did anyone tell you that?

:evil:

[Professor]

Ilah1,
If you remember in one of my previous posts I mentioned whether you have read Lawrence of Arabia. What was his role in those holy lands? Did you get any message out of it?

[ILAH1]

Ilah1,
If you remember in one of my previous posts I mentioned whether you have read Lawrence of Arabia. What was his role in those holy lands? Did you get any message out of it?

i just asked someone. he led revolt against turks. what does it relate?

[Abu-Hafiza]

Ben turkcu degilim ama turkculugu senden az yasamadim, bu bir

What does ASALA have to do with arabs anyways? Were they not armenians? :D So now arabs are responsible for armenian crimes as well?
Timur had no crimes? Tell that to Harezmians. Tell that to people buried alive and the people who's sculls have been used to built minarets.

Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon is paying what they must? OK, now let me put this to you

Turkey is puppet of america for many years. Incirlik airbase is used to attack muslims. Turkey has strong cooperation wiht Israel and it actually supports the israeli killing of inocent civilians (at least doesnt take any action against that). Can we say that Turkey is betraying their muslim brothers? what was the fault of Muhammad ad Durrah who was shot by an israely soldier in fron of mas smedia where his father was screaming letting them know that it is the child there? So are the thousands of children paying for the crime of "betrayal of arabs" with their life? and when will that price be ever paid off? If a turk from turkey rapes an uzbek girl or kills my brother, does it justify for me to say that ALL TURKS SHOULD DIE, including wonem and children?

Think about it demir

[Royal]

ILAH1, I have seen you pictures, believe me, the pictures that I can fill the place with are much more disturbing and much more in quantity.

One I may say it regarding this ... it is horrable, but why Palestinians or Arabs from there whos people been sloughtered fron of them...cannot publish or make thos pictures which is You promising to put it here worldwide publications ????

Why not they can setup special documentary films of the massacre of paletinians by israil soldiers couple years ago worldwide ????

Why not those people can not scream to the world about they killings to the world and look and ask for the justice ????

50 years old history with questions and doubts still circulating all over the world and in all type of publications to have simpaty to that nation..... looks like will continue more years...

I think those people looking for this trouble, i think they need it this killings , because they having own interest - same as Israels PM's son sold weapons to Palestinians to kill own people....

Don't mentioned to place those pictures here, YOU MUST PLACE THOSE PICTURES TO OTHER WIDE SPREAD, WIDER OPEN FORUMS / WEBSITES and PUBLICATIONS....

Just seeing something some where doesnt make you smart ass...

talkin BS...

[ILAH1]

Turkey is puppet of america for many years.


lies. turkey just picked right ally. syria is ally of russia for many years. look at syria today. turkey picked SMART.

Incirlik airbase is used to attack muslims.

to save other muslims from madmen saddam.

Turkey has strong cooperation wiht Israel

turkey pick smart.

and it actually supports the israeli killing of inocent civilians (at least doesnt take any action against that). Can we say that Turkey is betraying their muslim brothers?


no because turkey works for real peace in the area.


what was the fault of Muhammad ad Durrah who was shot by an israely soldier in fron of mas smedia where his father was screaming letting them know that it is the child there?


muhammad ad durrah was in crossfire. nobody knows who shot him. but you will say israel ofcourse.


So are the thousands of children paying for the crime of "betrayal of arabs" with their life? and when will that price be ever paid off? If a turk from turkey rapes an uzbek girl or kills my brother, does it justify for me to say that ALL TURKS SHOULD DIE, including wonem and children?

Think about it demir

they are victims of stupid leaders who don't want peace. turkey has it right.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Royal bobo, u rasmlar alla qachon butun dunyo bo'ylab tarqalib yuripti, siz endi kurdingizmi?
Rasmlarni nima qilasiz? Habarlarni ko'ring, o'zi yetadi. Nima endi, odamlar o'lmagan demoqchimisiz? Yo isroil begunohlarni o'ldirmagan demoqchimisiz? Yoki falastin okupatsiya ostida emas, demoqchimisiz? tushunmadim postingizni

[Abu-Hafiza]

ILAH, i would advise you not to go further, all the facts are comming from one side and you just throw stupid quotes. All the world knows what Israel really is and who is the victim. Dont go there as you will lose (just like you guys lost in lebanon with all you might).

dont make me start bringing thousands of examples of Israeli atrocities, including the massacre of palestinian family on the beach by israeli shell. Just leave the discussion. I dont hate you if you dont believe that killing of innocent is justified. You wanna live? Live, dont take that right away from palestinians fershtein?

[infolife]

teach me oh dear patron!



partially.



no.



yes. its not occupation. israeli arabs don't wanna leave. palestinians don't want peace.



never any sanctions. just stupid decisions. same europeans let russia oppress x10 muslims.



they declared war. they lost.



yes. christians kill palestinians. we stay on the side. sharon also guilty but much less.



no but not satan like you say.



turks friend to israel. stop trying to make fight!!!



no.



you are not funny, did anyone tell you that?

:evil:

No offence, but you better go and learn some English first. And then do some research on how Israel came to existance. Only after that you probably will qualify to lead a debate on Palestine-Israel issue.

[Aziz]

"Then did We grant you the Return as against them: We gave you increase in resources and sons, and made you the more numerous in man-power. If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power. It may be that your Lord may (yet) show Mercy unto you; but if ye revert (to your sins) We shall revert (to Our punishments): and We have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith).(6-8:17)"

[Royal]

Royal bobo, u rasmlar alla qachon butun dunyo bo'ylab tarqalib yuripti, siz endi kurdingizmi?
Rasmlarni nima qilasiz? Habarlarni ko'ring, o'zi yetadi. Nima endi, odamlar o'lmagan demoqchimisiz? Yo isroil begunohlarni o'ldirmagan demoqchimisiz? Yoki falastin okupatsiya ostida emas, demoqchimisiz? tushunmadim postingizni

osha yetarlik emas...ularni huddi film holida qilip chiqarip har hil Film Festvallariga qoyish kerak...

Butun dunyoga cd va dvd larda yoyish kerak...

Bu bir chiroylik qilp har bir filmni kochirganda uni boshiga shunda 1-2 lavha tashlsa yanayam kengayadi...

lekin bu ishga hech qaysi biri yurmiydi, chunki bu topolonlardan ozlariniyam nafslariga bir nima chiqvotti..

[Royal]

ILAH

did You know that Who give home, shelter, food and save almost from the massacre in Europe in 15th Century for jews, who was in 6-7 large boats looking to land adn other countries in the Europe denied for them ????

[ILAH1]

i will leave the discussion because you are all twisting the truth.

turkic people and Israel are friends and all the palestinian propaganda in the world will not change that. you will not change that as well. it is pointless to argue with you, but reality shows your fallacies. so maybe you win on forum, but on reality i win.

i will leave this pointless thread now.

and i did take offence. my english is not good. i can write good but it takes lots of time. not a reason to mock me.

and royal, check who killed 100,000 jews at fez, morocco.

[Abu-Hafiza]

i will leave the discussion because you are all twisting the truth.

turkic people and Israel are friends and all the palestinian propaganda in the world will not change that. you will not change that as well. it is pointless to argue with you, but reality shows your fallacies. so maybe you win on forum, but on reality i win.

i will leave this pointless thread now.

Noone is "winning" or "losing", the facts are talking louder then words. But anyways, thank you for leaving.


and royal, check who killed 100,000 jews at fez, morocco.
And who killed millions of jews in Germany, Poland, russia and so on? More to the point, who killed thousands of palestinians, lebanese, egyptians and so on?

[Royal]

and what about killings in Lebanon and Palestinians ???

Kids throwing only rocks to bullet proof TANKs and Israelie soldiers shooting with real bullets...

Rocks is THREAT against the Israeli ARMY and entire blocks been destroyed...

[Vezunchik]

world history
YouTube - Middle East Imperial History=

relligion history
YouTube - Multiplication is the name of the GAME=

arab-izrail war
1. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 1=
2. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 2=
3. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 3=
4. (poka ne nashel)
5. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 5=
6. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 6=
7. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 7=
8. YouTube - origins of the Arab Israeli Conflict - Part 8=


US version of story of arab izrail conflikt (interesting)
YouTube - Palestine-Israel 101=

ON:
Glavnaya Problema etogo konflikta
1. Mirovoy Sionizm, podderjivayushiy Agressiyu Izrailya.
2. Prodajnaya, predvzyataya politika US
3. Tupizm Arabov (kotori`e poshli protiv Ottamanskoy Imperii) i Turkov (prodajanaya politika OtaTurka).
4. Angliyskaya igra - Balfurskoe soglashenie

[Demir Kağan]

Ben turkcu degilim ama turkculugu senden az yasamadim, bu bir
Tьrkзьlьk yьrekte olur. ;)

What does ASALA have to do with arabs anyways? Were they not armenians? :D So now arabs are responsible for armenian crimes as well?
Arabs were one of the nations who protected ASALA.

Timur had no crimes? Tell that to Harezmians. Tell that to people buried alive and the people who's sculls have been used to built minarets.
Timur did that in Anatolia either, this is not a crime.

Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon is paying what they must? OK, now let me put this to you

Turkey is puppet of america for many years.
I absolutely agree. This has been caused by the non-PanTurkists. ;)

Incirlik airbase is used to attack muslims. Turkey has strong cooperation wiht Israel and it actually supports the israeli killing of inocent civilians (at least doesnt take any action against that).
Turks never support Israelis killing of innocent people.

Can we say that Turkey is betraying their muslim brothers?
Remember Indonesia, remember earthquake in Iran. We were there when they needed us. We always help to Chechenia but not legally. We are not betraying to our muslim brothers. But we do never care about betrayers!

what was the fault of Muhammad ad Durrah who was shot by an israely soldier in fron of mas smedia where his father was screaming letting them know that it is the child there? So are the thousands of children paying for the crime of "betrayal of arabs" with their life? and when will that price be ever paid off?
Yes, absolutely. And this is not something we are doing. Allah is punishing them and will punish their grandchildren either for betraying the nation who was in the way of Allah and fighting in the name of Allah.

If a turk from turkey rapes an uzbek girl or kills my brother, does it justify for me to say that ALL TURKS SHOULD DIE, including wonem and children?
This is not the same thing with what Arabs did. Also, they were not "one", they were thousands of.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Dear Demir

I always wanted to believe that you are non-fascist pan-turkist but looking at your posts, I can see that I was wrong. How can someone claim that :
1. Burrying thousands of people alive is not a crime?
2. That little children who are getting killed every day are paying for the crime of their father? What is it? A capital Sin? Reminds me of christianity
3. That when turks do it, they are devided into "non pan turkists" and "pan turkists" and when arabs do it then all arabs are trators?

Demir you are fascist, there is no difference between the same zionist jews in Israel and you. I pray Allah forgives your sins and show you the right path, shows you how to love your muslim brothers.

Buy the way Demir, I hope NOW you actually understand why Uzbeks hate turks. Thats exaclty why, you are the living example.

[2:216]

Turk liceylarini O'zbekistonimizdan haydab yuborib to'g'ri qilishgan ekanda...Mashu forumda ba'zi-bir kimsalar kabi fashist bo'lgandan ko'ra, umuman savodsiz bo'lgan maqul

[Abu-Hafiza]

2:216 do'stim, turk litseylarini aybi yuq bu fashistlikda. kamina ham o'sha litseylarda o'qidim, birga o'qigan bolalardan hech kimni bunchalik fashistligini ko'rmadim. Turk litseylari boshqa bu ahmoq kalta fahm, insoniyyatdan nafrat qiluvchi fashistlik boshqa.

[2:216]

Rahmat ma'lumotlar uchun Salafi, shunchaki forumda o'qigan narsalarimdan nafratlanib yozdim. Bu pan-turkist mafkurasini hamma turkiy zabon millatlarga tarqatish uchun ishlatilgan bo'lsa, Turk liceylarini yopishgan deb o'ylagan edim. Demak, hato o'ylagan ekanman. Uzr.

Lekin bu faqat forumda emas, ko'pgina joylarda Turklarga duch kelganimda (Toshkentda, Turk Hava Yo'llarida, Otaturk tayyoragohida, Istanbulda) ko'plarini bizlarga ya'ni O'zbeklarga qanaqa muomila qilishini ko'rganman. O'zlarini basharasiga qarab ham etganman. Qaytaraman, ko'pgina, ko'plari shunaqa, man hamma Turklar yoki Turklarni ko'pchiligi (ya'ni 50% ortig'i) shunaqa deyotganim yo'q.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Rahmat ma'lumotlar uchun Salafi, shunchaki forumda o'qigan narsalarimdan nafratlanib yozdim. Bu pan-turkist mafkurasini hamma turkiy zabon millatlarga tarqatish uchun ishlatilgan bo'lsa, Turk liceylarini yopishgan deb o'ylagan edim. Demak, hato o'ylagan ekanman. Uzr.

Lekin bu faqat forumda emas, ko'pgina joylarda Turklarga duch kelganimda (Toshkentda, Turk Hava Yo'llarida, Otaturk tayyoragohida, Istanbulda) ko'plarini bizlarga ya'ni O'zbeklarga qanaqa muomila qilishini ko'rganman. O'zlarini basharasiga qarab ham etganman. Qaytaraman, ko'pgina, ko'plari shunaqa, man hamma Turklar yoki Turklarni ko'pchiligi (ya'ni 50% ortig'i) shunaqa deyotganim yo'q.
Albatta gapingiz to'g'ri. Afsus kunimizda juda ko'p turklar shunaqa shovenist, millatchi va hatto fashist bulib ketishgan.

Lekin turklarning millathcilik mafkurasini ham tushunish kerak. Uning uchun turk millathciligi tarihidan ogoh bo'lish kerak, tekshirib chiqish kerak.

turk millatchiligining ham ikki turi bor. birinchisi faqatgina Turk millatining o'tmishdagi qahramonligi, yutuqlarini eslab, fahrlanib, yana shu darajaga chiqishga intilish, bu bilan birga boshqa millatlanri hor ko'rmaslik va hokazo. Ya'ni bir nabza arab millatchiligi, balkan millatchiligi va shunga o'xshash millathcilik illatlariga "protivoves" bo'lish maqsadidagi millatchilik (Orif Nihot Osyo, Shayx Kumushhonaviy va hokazo o'rnagidagi millathcilik) ki ular qarashi; Islom-turklikning ajralmas bo'g'ini, turklar faqatgina Islom dini sharafi bilan yuqori darajalarga yetgan va shuning uchun Islomga mahkam bog'lanib eski sharafini tiklash fikri.

Ikkinchisi esa Nihol Otsizlar va Otaturklar misoli qon ulug'vorligi da'vosi. Bu da'vo juda isqirt, kaltafahm fikrdir. Birinchi toifa agar boshqa halqlarni o'zidan past ko'rmasa ikkinchi toifa huddi zionist yahudiylar yoki gitler fashistlari kabi miqqisidan ketgandir.

Huddi shu illat boshqa halqlarda ham bor. Arablar orasida masalan "Arab bo'lmagan musulmon emas", "Arablar eng ulug' halqdir, chunki ohirgi payg'ambar ularga kelgan" va hokazo qarashlar mavjud va juda keng tarqalgan.

O'zi millatchilik degan narsa Frantsia inqilobidan keyin dunyoga tanishtirilgan illatdir. Ungacha millat-din edi. Uning yonida qavmiyyat-qabilachilik bor edi. Qavm juda kichkina marjinal bir tuhsuncha edi. Amir Temurning
Bizki Mulki To'ron amiri Turkistonmiz
Bizkim millatlanring eng ulug'i Turk bosh bo'g'inimiz! gapida millatchilik haqida emas, Islom millati orasida bizning Turk qavmi va Turkiston mamlakati eng ulug'dir, degan qarashi edi. Chunki Amir Temur hindiston, eron, arablar ustida hokim bo'lgan lekin hehc kim uni boshqa halqlarni hor ko'rganida ayblamagan va u fashist-shovenist qarashida bo'lmagan.

Lekin turklar orasida umuman millathci bo'lmasdna ummatchi bo'lganlar ham ko'p. Masalan Mehmet Akif Ersoy, turkiyaning eng mashhur shoiri va olim. U qanchadan qancha joyda "Millating islom edi, bu qavmiyat nima? Yaxshilab mahkam bog'lanmaysanmi millatingga?" degan va "Arab turksiz bo'lmaydi, kim bo'ladi desa kofirdir. Turk esa arabning o'ng qo'lidir" degan.

Lekn afsus bizning forumga kiruvchi turklarning aksariyati aynan shunaqa shovenist fashist millatchilardir. Lekin mana nechi yildna beri ular o'z ahlatidan nariga o'tisholmay o'zlarini "o'zbek birodar"lariga yaxhsi qilib ko'rsatishay olishmadi, chunki bizning halqimiz ularning bu bir tinga qimmat propagandasini sotib olmaydi.

Hurmat ila

[Demir Kağan]

O'zi millatchilik degan narsa Frantsia inqilobidan keyin dunyoga tanishtirilgan illatdir. Ungacha millat-din edi. Uning yonida qavmiyyat-qabilachilik bor edi. Qavm juda kichkina marjinal bir tuhsuncha edi. Amir Temurning
Bizki Mulki To'ron amiri Turkistonmiz
Bizkim millatlanring eng ulug'i Turk bosh bo'g'inimiz! gapida millatchilik haqida emas, Islom millati orasida bizning Turk qavmi va Turkiston mamlakati eng ulug'dir, degan qarashi edi. Chunki Amir Temur hindiston, eron, arablar ustida hokim bo'lgan lekin hehc kim uni boshqa halqlarni hor ko'rganida ayblamagan va u fashist-shovenist qarashida bo'lmagan.
Read the Orkhun Scripts and you will see whether we have been nationalist or not since 1500 years before the French Revaluation.

Dear Demir

I always wanted to believe that you are non-fascist pan-turkist but looking at your posts, I can see that I was wrong.
Yes, you are wrong, because I am not a fascist. A Turk cannot be fascist because we have tons of other ethnics living with us for 1000 years and now.

1. Burrying thousands of people alive is not a crime?
If you are in war with a country, there is nothing you can do but destroying it. This is not true but you don't have any else choice but doing it. Why? Because when the children grow up, they will be enemy to you.

2. That little children who are getting killed every day are paying for the crime of their father? What is it? A capital Sin? Reminds me of christianity
This is the punishment by Allah for Arabs in Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon. Saudi Arabia is the next after all the petrol there is over. I am never into killing innocents. Do you think I am on the side of Israel? Then you really don't understand me. The children who are being killed every day are not guilty. But their fathers are. They sold their land! They betrayed us! And also, I think you forgot that Saudi government was about to destroy the home of the Prophet s.a.v. They are even betraying to the prophet!

3. That when turks do it, they are devided into "non pan turkists" and "pan turkists" and when arabs do it then all arabs are trators?
We can seperate nonPanTurkists as two group:
1) Islamists
2) People who are on the side of West.
Those two group are harmful to Turkey and Turkey's brothers. Both turn their back to them.

Demir you are fascist, there is no difference between the same zionist jews in Israel and you. I pray Allah forgives your sins and show you the right path, shows you how to love your muslim brothers.
I love all my muslim brothers, especially Bosnian, Indonesian, Indian, Malay and Pakistani muslims. I love some Arabs either. Brother Aziz here, for example. I had an Arab friend in class who was my best friend. ;) A fascist's best friend can never belong to another nation.

Buy the way Demir, I hope NOW you actually understand why Uzbeks hate turks. Thats exaclty why, you are the living example.
Unfortunately, you cannot talk for the whole Uzbek nation. I am sorry but we really don't care if 'some' Uzbeks hate us because they are fed by wahhabi Arabs and Russians. And, wasn't it you who said you can't blame the whole nation for some thing done by some one? You are in a paradox, brother. :)

[Abu-Hafiza]

Read the Orkhun Scripts and you will see whether we have been nationalist or not since 1500 years before the French Revaluation.

I have read it and there is nothing of todays nationalism in orhun-yenisey writings. The word NATION is a new word. Turks were tribes and Orhun Yenisey writings were the writings of the tribe. Back then there wasnt even countries as such. Read dome history

Yes, you are wrong, because I am not a fascist. A Turk cannot be fascist because we have tons of other ethnics living with us for 1000 years and now.
This is a dilema of pan turkists and nationalist states. They claim to have "tonns of different ethnics" but the same time they brag about orhun yenisey writings and how glorius the turkish nation is. I am not against the type of pan-turkism that doesnt claim that Turks are the purest blood. I am against YOUR nationalism and the way you hate arabs.

If you are in war with a country, there is nothing you can do but destroying it. This is not true but you don't have any else choice but doing it. Why? Because when the children grow up, they will be enemy to you.
Well, then mongols were right to commit all the atrocities they did? Or balkans were right to kill millions of turks "because they are in war2 with ottoman empire? Stupid claim. Civillians have always been neutral and untouchable. Crime is crime, war or no war, people who dont participate in battle were not supposed to be killed. Did Umar (RA) kill every single persian? Or every single roman in Damascus? More over, did prophet Muhammad (SAWS) kill every single mushrik in Makkah? or Taif? This is the most stupid argument. Grow up demir, you live in a fantazy land

This is the punishment by Allah for Arabs in Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon. Saudi Arabia is the next after all the petrol there is over. I am never into killing innocents. Do you think I am on the side of Israel? Then you really don't understand me. The children who are being killed every day are not guilty. But their fathers are. They sold their land! They betrayed us! And also, I think you forgot that Saudi government was about to destroy the home of the Prophet s.a.v. They are even betraying to the prophet!

Then the decline of Ottoman empire and the loss of all your lands is also a punishment of Allah. The fact that you are becomming a pupet of the west is also a punishment of Allah. Children are not supposed to be paying for the crimes of their fathers. Lets nuke Mongolia for what Gengiz Khan did then? Lets kill every single iranian as they rebelled agains ottomans as well. Besides it was you who said "Palestine is our problem ONLY BECAUSE MASJID AL AQSA IS THERE" or am I wrong? So if it was not for the masjid, which is after all just masjid (holy masjid but still, just a masjid) you dont care about innocent people dieing every day.


We can seperate nonPanTurkists as two group:
1) Islamists
2) People who are on the side of West.
Those two group are harmful to Turkey and Turkey's brothers. Both turn their back to them.
Now your fasciest thouts are even deviding your own people and creating the hateret for your own "compatriots". Why dont you devide Arabs into groups like "the ones who betrayed" and "the ones who did not betray"? Why should turks have a previledge in your eyes of being devided into groups saying "its them, its not all of turkey" and arabs should be "trecherous arabs"? How about the arabs who fought agains emperialists? How about Uma rMuhtar for example and sannusi movement? How about the people like Kawthari for example?

I love all my muslim brothers, especially Bosnian, Indonesian, Indian, Malay and Pakistani muslims. I love some Arabs either. Brother Aziz here, for example. I had an Arab friend in class who was my best friend. ;) A fascist's best friend can never belong to another nation.

No, you dont. You look at all of them through "pan turkism" glasses. If they say "We should be one ummah" you say no, you guys betrayed us. You mentioned Bosnians. Why dont you apply the same "they betrayed us" attitude towards them? After all, didnt Bosnians (Arnavutluk) rebell against you?


Unfortunately, you cannot talk for the whole Uzbek nation. I am sorry but we really don't care if 'some' Uzbeks hate us because they are fed by wahhabi Arabs and Russians. And, wasn't it you who said you can't blame the whole nation for some thing done by some one? You are in a paradox, brother. :)
Just read the forum. I dont hate Turks, in fact almost all of my friends are from Turkey. I hate nationalist turks, nationalist arabs, nationalist pakistanis and so on. You have abandoned the Great Power called a Grate Nation of Islam and locked yourself into tiny "turkic" identity. I can tell you with no doupt that 80% of Uzbeks hate your pan turcic thoughts. Fed by wahhabi arabs and Russians? Who do you categorise me as? I am not wahhabi (certainly not) and I hate Russians all the same.

Yes, it was me who said you cannot blame a nation for what SOMe have done and what my example was is that people feel the same way when you do it. So when people hear idiot claims like you are making, they start generalizing and start hating ALL of turks. Read my reply to 2:216 and you will understand my stance towards Turkey, nationalists and pan-turkists.

Regarding arabs, it was arabs who made you into human beings by introducing Islam. Gaznavi turks, karahani turks, selcuks were loyal to arabs and they LOVED arabs for inroducing the true faith to them. Why dont you remember these?

Demir, this is second time you are being refuted and you cannot come up with anything realistic. So please kow your respect and your place. dont go into arguments that you know you can never win and stop flooding this place with your pan-tuirkic propaganda that EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM is fed up with

[infolife]

Read the Orkhun Scripts and you will see whether we have been nationalist or not since 1500 years before the French Revaluation.


Yes, you are wrong, because I am not a fascist. A Turk cannot be fascist because we have tons of other ethnics living with us for 1000 years and now.


If you are in war with a country, there is nothing you can do but destroying it. This is not true but you don't have any else choice but doing it. Why? Because when the children grow up, they will be enemy to you.


This is the punishment by Allah for Arabs in Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon. Saudi Arabia is the next after all the petrol there is over. I am never into killing innocents. Do you think I am on the side of Israel? Then you really don't understand me. The children who are being killed every day are not guilty. But their fathers are. They sold their land! They betrayed us!


Few years back,Turkey has signed a military pact with Israel which is still in power today. So,based on your logic, turkish people from Turkey have betrayed this Ummah,they betrayed their brothers in Palestine. And for that reason, all muslims hate turks in Turkey.And in about 40-50years after,maybe in 2047-50 the children of those turks living in Turkey now will be punished for that crime?How does that sound?Tell me
(some of these ppl dont even know that their goverment has a military pact with jewish goverment,but hey they're betrayers)


And also, I think you forgot that Saudi government was about to destroy the home of the Prophet s.a.v. They are even betraying to the prophet!

To follow prophet means to practise His Sunnah,thus to betray Him SAW means to abandon His Sunnah. A stone or a grave has nothing to do with it,although I think due respect must be showed. Have you ever researched why Saudi goverment thought of doing that?not just for entertainment I guess


We can seperate nonPanTurkists as two group:
1) Islamists
2) People who are on the side of West.
Those two group are harmful to Turkey and Turkey's brothers. Both turn their back to them.


I love all my muslim brothers, especially Bosnian, Indonesian, Indian, Malay and Pakistani muslims. I love some Arabs either. Brother Aziz here, for example. I had an Arab friend in class who was my best friend. ;) A fascist's best friend can never belong to another nation.

:shock: me shocked to know you have an arab friend. How come???
Well,glad for you,honestly. Keep that friendship up:)


Unfortunately, you cannot talk for the whole Uzbek nation. I am sorry but we really don't care if 'some' Uzbeks hate us because they are fed by wahhabi Arabs and Russians. And, wasn't it you who said you can't blame the whole nation for some thing done by some one? You are in a paradox, brother. :)
Unfortunately, Uzbeks are not fed by wahhabi arabs.If uzbek goverment was smart enough, it could better the relations with Saudi and probably get tons of money for development.but u know what,the goverment isnt that clever yet,it sucks

Last but not least,if your neighbor annoys/betrays you do you wait till he/she has some grandchildren and punish those poor kids who barely knew their grandfathers?
If the answer is NO, then how come you can think of such an unfair punishment on behalf of the Almighty GOD?

[Professor]

what was the fault of Muhammad ad Durrah who was shot by an israely soldier in fron of mas smedia where his father was screaming letting them know that it is the child there?
Brother Salafi, may Allah bless you, you just reminded me a story that whenever I think about this boy I began to cry and same moments as well. It's like I lost my own son. Ilah1, I ask Almighty Allah to give a chance for me as well to kill at least one jewish soldier and meet Muhammad ad Durrah to say about revenge,ameen.
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An army armed to the teeth and full of hatred executes a child in his father's arms.

ILAH1 HOW YOU WILL EXPLAIN THIS SCENE?

[Demir Kağan]

I have read it and there is nothing of todays nationalism in orhun-yenisey writings. The word NATION is a new word. Turks were tribes and Orhun Yenisey writings were the writings of the tribe. Back then there wasnt even countries as such. Read dome history
Orhun Scripts have been written by 'GokTurks' who belong to Oguz tribe. And every sentence written there smells PanTurkism. ;)

This is a dilema of pan turkists and nationalist states. They claim to have "tonns of different ethnics" but the same time they brag about orhun yenisey writings and how glorius the turkish nation is. I am not against the type of pan-turkism that doesnt claim that Turks are the purest blood. I am against YOUR nationalism and the way you hate arabs.
What is your problem about being glorious? You may not feel like that. But as the ruler of the world, as the sword of Allah, as the peace maker we are glorious. You are mixing PanTurkism and Racism. You have to read Sultangaliyev and Ziya Gokalp. This is not your business if we hate Arabs or not.

Well, then mongols were right to commit all the atrocities they did? Or balkans were right to kill millions of turks "because they are in war2 with ottoman empire? Stupid claim. Civillians have always been neutral and untouchable. Crime is crime, war or no war, people who dont participate in battle were not supposed to be killed. Did Umar (RA) kill every single persian? Or every single roman in Damascus? More over, did prophet Muhammad (SAWS) kill every single mushrik in Makkah? or Taif? This is the most stupid argument. Grow up demir, you live in a fantazy land
First of all, please be polite while discussing, do not attack me or my ideas. You may not like me or my ideas but you have to respect as I am doing. I am not talking about atrocities, I am talking about war. And you can't know better than me what an atrocity is. Civillians are different but who can know they won't be in war with the enemy? Prophet Muhammet is a big politician. If he killed every single infidel or mushrik or whatever in Makkah or Taif, how could he claim that his religion is a peacemaker religion? How could he claim that the religion is not into wars? ;)

Then the decline of Ottoman empire and the loss of all your lands is also a punishment of Allah.
I absolutely agree on this with you. Because the public and the government were not like centuries ago. They were wannabes of West. They were not on the right path. Their fathers had wars just for Islam and what they were doing and what they were changing into had nothing to do with Islam.

The fact that you are becomming a pupet of the west is also a punishment of Allah.
Nope, this is stupid mistake of stupid people.

Children are not supposed to be paying for the crimes of their fathers. Lets nuke Mongolia for what Gengiz Khan did then? Lets kill every single iranian as they rebelled agains ottomans as well. Besides it was you who said "Palestine is our problem ONLY BECAUSE MASJID AL AQSA IS THERE" or am I wrong? So if it was not for the masjid, which is after all just masjid (holy masjid but still, just a masjid) you dont care about innocent people dieing every day.
Boy, first of all you have to understand that I am not supporting the death of innocents. Did I say we must kill betrayers children? Did I say they all must be destroyed? I just said 'They are paying for their fathers faults." And I insist on that.

Now your fasciest thouts are even deviding your own people and creating the hateret for your own "compatriots". Why dont you devide Arabs into groups like "the ones who betrayed" and "the ones who did not betray"? Why should turks have a previledge in your eyes of being devided into groups saying "its them, its not all of turkey" and arabs should be "trecherous arabs"? How about the arabs who fought agains emperialists? How about Uma rMuhtar for example and sannusi movement? How about the people like Kawthari for example?
I am not dividing my own people. Enemies are doing that. :) Some of my people are wannabes of West and some others are wannabes of Arabs. The common point of both is turning their back to their own nation. What you said is acceptable and this is what we are doing. Why we don't have problem with other Arab countries except Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and Saudi Arabia? ;) Ömer Muhtar is a great person whom I really like.

No, you dont. You look at all of them through "pan turkism" glasses. If they say "We should be one ummah" you say no, you guys betrayed us. You mentioned Bosnians. Why dont you apply the same "they betrayed us" attitude towards them? After all, didnt Bosnians (Arnavutluk) rebell against you?
Unfortunately, you are misreading my thoughts. I look at everyone through "human" glass. If 'real muslim' Arabs did govern their countries, trust me, I'd load the ummah action. We are talking about Bosnians. Read about 'Aliya İzzetbegoviç' and check if we are talking about the same people. Bosnians and Albenians are not same.

Just read the forum. I dont hate Turks, in fact almost all of my friends are from Turkey. I hate nationalist turks, nationalist arabs, nationalist pakistanis and so on. You have abandoned the Great Power called a Grate Nation of Islam and locked yourself into tiny "turkic" identity. I can tell you with no doupt that 80% of Uzbeks hate your pan turcic thoughts. Fed by wahhabi arabs and Russians? Who do you categorise me as? I am not wahhabi (certainly not) and I hate Russians all the same.
Boy, there is no Great Nation of Islam at the moment. We, as the Ottomans, ruled the whole Islamic world. When we said it's time to jihad, we saw our muslim brothers was in jihad against us. I know what you mean. It is better if the roof is bigger and at this time only we can sit at this home. After we buy the new home, then we can break down both and build a new one which is bigger. ;)

Yes, it was me who said you cannot blame a nation for what SOMe have done and what my example was is that people feel the same way when you do it. So when people hear idiot claims like you are making, they start generalizing and start hating ALL of turks. Read my reply to 2:216 and you will understand my stance towards Turkey, nationalists and pan-turkists.
As I said, people fed by Russians and Arabs can hate us as much as they can.

Regarding arabs, it was arabs who made you into human beings by introducing Islam. Gaznavi turks, karahani turks, selcuks were loyal to arabs and they LOVED arabs for inroducing the true faith to them. Why dont you remember these?
Boy, I am repeating, respect. We were just respecting Arabs because our Prophet was from their nation. Gazneliler, Karahanlılar ve Selçuklular was protecting the caliphet. Do you remember that? ;)

Demir, this is second time you are being refuted and you cannot come up with anything realistic. So please kow your respect and your place. dont go into arguments that you know you can never win and stop flooding this place with your pan-tuirkic propaganda that EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM is fed up with
You don't have to answer me, boy. You are free to ignore what I have written.

[Professor]

i just asked someone. he led revolt against turks. what does it relate?

So you couldn't get the main point why I have asked you whether you have read Lawrence of Arabia. So your posts favouring one moslem country and blaming another,thus making chaos between and intentionally making them fight and thus annihilate each other. Same mission was accomplished by Lawrence and you're with the same mission as well. Don't get involved into moslem internal affairs, we can solve it ourselves. And stop kissing the Turkish as*es. You like them because you have some mutual interest, water, secutiry, integillegence and etc. whenever it will collapse you will destroy them as well.
P.S. For your information you may read Holy Quran, chapter 29, what will happen with those moslem cooperating with those who don't believe to Allah.

[Demir Kağan]

Brother Salafi, may Allah bless you, you just reminded me a story that whenever I think about this boy I began to cry and same moments as well. It's like I lost my own son. Ilah1, I ask Almighty Allah to give a chance for me as well to kill at least one jewish soldier and meet Muhammad ad Durrah to say about revenge,ameen.

An army armed to the teeth and full of hatred executes a child in his father's arms.

ILAH1 HOW YOU WILL EXPLAIN THIS SCENE?

Brother, who killed your son?

Do you live in Palestine?

Allah's curse be on those who kill innocents.

[Professor]

muhammad ad durrah was in crossfire. nobody knows who shot him. but you will say israel ofcourse.
You a** hole, what's the stupid and naive sentence. Nobody telling you fiction that happend 10 century back, it was documented with many cameras, and it was proved that Israeli soldiers killed them. Why You can't acknowledge zionist crimes, why you're making fitna to destroy whole countries you dont like to be existed...why you're against Iranian nuclear project while you're armed with tons of rockets including nuclear one.....why your obediant peace loving people can't stop those butchers....why and why???
Lanati yahud.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Orhun Scripts have been written by 'GokTurks' who belong to Oguz tribe. And every sentence written there smells PanTurkism. ;)


What is your problem about being glorious? You may not feel like that. But as the ruler of the world, as the sword of Allah, as the peace maker we are glorious. You are mixing PanTurkism and Racism. You have to read Sultangaliyev and Ziya Gokalp. This is not your business if we hate Arabs or not.


First of all, please be polite while discussing, do not attack me or my ideas. You may not like me or my ideas but you have to respect as I am doing. I am not talking about atrocities, I am talking about war. And you can't know better than me what an atrocity is. Civillians are different but who can know they won't be in war with the enemy? Prophet Muhammet is a big politician. If he killed every single infidel or mushrik or whatever in Makkah or Taif, how could he claim that his religion is a peacemaker religion? How could he claim that the religion is not into wars? ;)


I absolutely agree on this with you. Because the public and the government were not like centuries ago. They were wannabes of West. They were not on the right path. Their fathers had wars just for Islam and what they were doing and what they were changing into had nothing to do with Islam.


Nope, this is stupid mistake of stupid people.


Boy, first of all you have to understand that I am not supporting the death of innocents. Did I say we must kill betrayers children? Did I say they all must be destroyed? I just said 'They are paying for their fathers faults." And I insist on that.


I am not dividing my own people. Enemies are doing that. :) Some of my people are wannabes of West and some others are wannabes of Arabs. The common point of both is turning their back to their own nation. What you said is acceptable and this is what we are doing. Why we don't have problem with other Arab countries except Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and Saudi Arabia? ;) Цmer Muhtar is a great person whom I really like.


Unfortunately, you are misreading my thoughts. I look at everyone through "human" glass. If 'real muslim' Arabs did govern their countries, trust me, I'd load the ummah action. We are talking about Bosnians. Read about 'Aliya İzzetbegoviз' and check if we are talking about the same people. Bosnians and Albenians are not same.


Boy, there is no Great Nation of Islam at the moment. We, as the Ottomans, ruled the whole Islamic world. When we said it's time to jihad, we saw our muslim brothers was in jihad against us. I know what you mean. It is better if the roof is bigger and at this time only we can sit at this home. After we buy the new home, then we can break down both and build a new one which is bigger. ;)


As I said, people fed by Russians and Arabs can hate us as much as they can.


Boy, I am repeating, respect. We were just respecting Arabs because our Prophet was from their nation. Gazneliler, Karahanlılar ve Selзuklular was protecting the caliphet. Do you remember that? ;)


You don't have to answer me, boy. You are free to ignore what I have written.
Boy? How old are you "Grand dad"?

Re read your posts, you are full of contradictions. When I say "I hate" I mena that I hate the notion, the idea of nationalism becomming a fascism and unfortunately with all due RESPECT, your ideas are becoming more and more radical. Bosnians rebelled against turkey, but you chose to respect Aliya Izzatberkovic forgiving their betrayal. Arabs betrayed you, but you fail to aknowledge that great leaders of Arabs, like Omar Muhtar or Hasan al Banna were against nationalism.
By the way, who are you to "forgive" anyrthing that is done in the past? And stop saying that prophet didnt kill civilians only because of diplomacy. He was a PROPHET he was acting as ALLAH commanded him. And then you get upset when I say that what you write is stupid.

Selling land? Go on google search and type "real estate in Turkey" or "property in Turkey" and you will see how many turkish companies are selling land in Turkey to foreigners. So, your people are betraying your nation. I only hope that in future those foreigners dont attack you and someone wont say "well, their grand fathers sold their lands to english so they deserve the punishment, let all of them die".

Now turkey as part of Nato was in Afganistan fighting on the side of America. I thought afgans actually helped you during kurtulus savasi? Remember that famous story of two afgans fighting the whole army of anzaks before they actually reach turkey? And why did Turkey go to Afganistan? Are they betraying afgans?
You will of course say "it is some idiot turks, the governemnt that did it", but if in 100 years time some afgan kills your grandson and say "turks betrayed us, they deserve that, they must pay for their grandfathers" would that help?

By the way, do you know why Turkes vas banned from chechnya by Dudaev himself?

Demir, i know you are young, still just a kid. You should grow up of your fantazy world. You know you are wrong.

[Professor]

Turks never support Israelis killing of innocent people.
Remember Indonesia, remember earthquake in Iran. We were there when they needed us. We always help to Chechenia but not legally. We are not betraying to our muslim brothers. But we do never care about betrayers!

I can agree with the above stated. It's absolutely true. Turkish people doesn't like Israel at all and its with the corrupted government policy that's under the US influence as well as masons.
And I know Russia several times reminded Turkey not to help Chechens otherwise they can reply with other means. There are slot Chechens diaspora living in Turkey.

P.S. Brother Demir Kagan, stop pushing this pan-turkism, let's think more globally, Islamis brotherhood is the only chance for us to re-unite. We are Turks, so let's shape Turkism out of Islam.

[2:216]

What is your problem about being glorious? You may not feel like that. But as the ruler of the world, as the sword of Allah, as the peace maker we are glorious

What are you smoking bro?! Whatever it is, it is a potent stuff cause you've got to be really delusional to think like that.

First of all, please be polite while discussing, do not attack me or my ideas. You may not like me or my ideas but you have to respect as I am doing. I am not talking about atrocities, I am talking about war. And you can't know better than me what an atrocity is. Civillians are different but who can know they won't be in war with the enemy? Prophet Muhammet is a big politician. If he killed every single infidel or mushrik or whatever in Makkah or Taif, how could he claim that his religion is a peacemaker religion? How could he claim that the religion is not into wars?

I am getting confused here. Are you implying that he (s.a.w) didn't kill all of them because he wanted to be "politically correct" at the time??!

The only reason they were not killed is because KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE IS NOT ALLOWED IN OUR RELIGION, this is religion of truth, not some kind of right-wing psycho movement, got it?!

[kurshad]

Bosnians rebelled against turkey, but you chose to respect Aliya Izzatberkovic forgiving their betrayal.

Arabs betrayed you, but you fail to aknowledge that great leaders of Arabs, like Omar Muhtar or Hasan al Banna were against nationalism.

By the way, do you know why Turkes vas banned from chechnya by Dudaev himself?

.

I must correct some points;

1. Bosnians have never rebelled against Turkey. The solidarity between the Turkish and Bosnian peoples has been very strong since centuries. Even, there were many turkish mudjahids gone to Bosnia to help their Bosnians brothers.

2. Only some of Arabs betrayed to Ottomans, accusing the all arabs is not acceptable. Turks have very good relations and share many common tradittions especially with Algeria, Libya,Egypt, Syria.
Having good relations with arabs is a thing and observing what happening in middleeast and Balkans after ottomans is another thing. Don't try to obtain one thing from 2 things ;)

3. Alparslan Turkes is never banned from Chechenia by Dudayev. I don't know where did you get this info, but I can say easily that its not right. Contrary, Turkes presented him to turkish president with his persoonal efforts

[kurshad]

.

Buy the way Demir, I hope NOW you actually understand why Uzbeks hate turks. Thats exaclty why, you are the living example.


Do Uzbeks hate turks????! Why?


Maybe , That's you who hate Turks not Uzbeks...

[kurshad]

Lekin bu faqat forumda emas, ko'pgina joylarda Turklarga duch kelganimda (Toshkentda, Turk Hava Yo'llarida, Otaturk tayyoragohida, Istanbulda) ko'plarini bizlarga ya'ni O'zbeklarga qanaqa muomila qilishini ko'rganman. O'zlarini basharasiga qarab ham etganman.

Allah Allah...

Uzbeks are treated badly by turks ha??? I think you have some complexes of inferiorty, that's all...

[Karayılan]

Just think one minute.

When Jews wanted to buy Palastine from Sultan, II. Abdulhamid Khan said
" We took those lands with blood so we give with blood "

We gave those lands with blood. Betrayed Arabic tribes and their LORD, English Army beat Turkish Army. For a long time, they lived as colony of UK and France. After they became independent, they SOLD their lands to Jews. For a little amout of money, they sold those lands that my grandfather fought for. Now, say me why do I care of them?

I'm so upset to see that innocent people are killed in Palastine but I have never been upset as much as Chechenia, Kosovo or Eastern Turkistan. My hearth with Chechens and Uygurs. Unfortunately, some Arab lovers in this forum never talk about them!!!

[Karayılan]

Do Uzbeks hate turks????! Why?


Maybe , That's you who hate Turks not Uzbeks...These Arab lovers hate Turks but unfortunately they dont want to understand that Uzbeks are Turks as well!!!

[Abu-Hafiza]

Vsya korolevskaya konnitsa i vsya korolevskaya rat' kevoptiku bu yerga. butun Turkiston forumini chaqirib olsa bulardi yxshisi :D

Anyways, kursad, if you believe that arabs should not be hated, then it is fine with me.

bosnian revolts:
Husein Garadasevic revolt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husein_Grada%C5%A1%C4%8Devi%C4%87

An then ootomans actually betrayed Bosnians after giving it away to Austro-Hungaria.

Regarding turkes and Dudaev, they had disagreement on the issue of Ummetcilik and Turancilik, although I do aknowledge thet Turkes have helped cecens a great lot.

Regarding hating Turks, i am the one person who LOVES turks, but read the forum, especially threads opened by deryambel (in uzbek section of the forum) and Genc_turk (also in uzbek section of the forum) and Turansoyu also. But you have to understand one thing, Uzbeks are fed up with pan turkist ideas being spoon fed to them and many have wrong information regarding turkish nationalism.

The last point is, look at your own turkistan forum. Anyone who says that nationalism is bad, they are labeled as Islamist (as if it is a bad thing) and attacked left, right and centre.

Regards,

[Black]

Here are my few cents.

So far we saw only words, no facts. Discussion without facts is useless. So let's see some facts, or reread the history books.
Background
......
In the elections held in 1908, The Committee of Union and Progress, managed to gain the upper hand against the rival group led by Prince Sabahaddin, more liberal in outlook, bearing a strong British imprint, and closer to the Palace. The new parliament comprised 142 Turks, 60 Arabs, 25 Albanians, 23 Greeks, 12 Armenians (including four Dashnaks and two Hunchas), 5 Jews, 4 Bulgarians, 3 Serbs and 1 Vlach. Ottoman politics changed and discrimination against non-Turkish inhabitants increased.

World War One

The Ottoman Empire took part in the Middle Eastern theatre of World War I, under the terms of the Ottoman-German Alliance. Many Arab nationalist figures in Damascus and Beirut were arrested, then tortured and executed by the Ottomans. The Arabs were also threatened by the construction of the Hejaz railway, which helped move Turkish troops deep into Arab areas (the railway was actually finished under the old Sultanbut its effects became more noticeable under the CUP government).

Because of these reasons, Sherif Hussein, as the head of the Arab nationalists, entered into an alliance with the United Kingdom and France against the Ottomans around June 8, 1916 (the actual date is a bit uncertain).

First of all we should admit that some arabs betrayed. But the question is what or whom they betrayed?
My answer for this question is, arabs betrayed Islam, not Turks, because by the time they start to take the side of non-muslims, Ottoman Empire has been betrayed by Turks, yes, yes by Turks already. The Arabs did what Turks were doing before them.

So, the original Ottoman Empire (Empire not Khalifat though) was first betrayed by Turks, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_revolt) more specifically Nationalist Turks, then by others (arabs and other muslim and non-muslim nations).
So no Nationalist=PanTurkist have a right to claim "Arabs betrayed us". Arabs did not betray you, they betrayed Islam. So did Turks by taking the sides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman-German_Alliance) of non-muslims in the war between non-muslim nations.

Ottoman Empire was first betrayed by Turk nationalist, by spreading their nationalistic ideas, then again by Turks by signing alliance with non-muslims and only after that by other nationalist movments (including arabs).

Neither Turks nor Arabs had to take the sides of non-muslims. But Turks took the sides of Germans and Arabs took the sides of England/France. Both Arabs and Turks were wrong. But the root of these mistakes was the Nationalism, yes, it was Nationalism which destroyed Ottomans.

It is very funny, that today Pan Turks yell and whin that Arabs betrayed them. So, it was (and is) OK for Turks to practice nationalism, and betray Islam and Ottoman Empire, but it is not OK for others (including Arabs) to do so? Double Standards? It is just both of you guys (Turks and Arabs) were driven by nationalism. That is what the West wanted and want you (and us) to do guys. Arab nationalist, Turk nationalist, Persian nationalist, (pan arab, pan turk, pan persian and etc.).

PanTurkist saying that he does not like Arabs (who betrayed them) is like Skinhead saying that he does not like nazists.

I am sorry guys, but I think that if we look from the prizm of Islam, then both Turks and Arabs were traitors at that time. They both had no right to take the sides of non-muslims. They should not have discriminate, fight against each other.

So my opinion, based on the facts I know, the nationalist movements were the reason of dissolution Ottoman Empire and Muslim nations (such as turks and arabs) betraying Islam.
One more reason is, administrative inability of Turks, or more correctly Ottomon Empire to control its territories and people. (I talk about it later, now I am in a hurry, I have to run).

[infolife]

:shock: (woy towba)bir pasda turklar armiyasini boshlab kebdiku bu yerga

bu threadni shundeligicha turkistan forumuga kochirib beringlar moderlar:)

[kurshad]

Anyways, kursad, if you believe that arabs should not be hated, then it is fine with me.

bosnian revolts:
Husein Garadasevic revolt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husein_Grada%C5%A1%C4%8Devi%C4%87

An then ootomans actually betrayed Bosnians after giving it away to Austro-Hungaria.

Regarding turkes and Dudaev, they had disagreement on the issue of Ummetcilik and Turancilik, although I do aknowledge thet Turkes have helped cecens a great lot.

Regards,

I continue; ;)

1. Of course I don't hate arabs, I consider them as a brother nation. In fact, I am a panturkist, I believe in the unification of Turkic peoples and countries in economy , in culture. And I stronglly believe that this unification is not helpfull only for the turkic nations but also for the brother nations which were parts of our history common; like tajiks, Arabs, Pakistanis..

Also I must add that I am not racist and do not accept this ideology. Nobody can be superior to another one by his race. This ideology doesn't belong to eastern peoples , it was born in western countries and exported to our countries.


2. Among muslims in Balkans, especially in Bosnia, Ottoman period of their history is considered as the glorious and prosperity days of their nations. You must'n forget that they were converted to Islam by Ottomans in peace. After left by the ottomans, they realized the worst days of their history. MAybe some rebellion could be happened against Ottomans in Bosnia or in Koosova but the reality in Balkans show that Turks are still missed.. I have been several times in Balkans and I suggest you to visit these lands as a Turk and you'll see the difference.



3.Turkes is considered "aka" by Dudayev. And believe me, It's only with the helps and efforts of Alparslan Turkes that turkish officers went to Chechenia to train the Chechen army, sent military aids.

[Abu-Hafiza]

I continue; ;)

1. Of course I don't hate arabs, I consider them as a brother nation. In fact, I am a panturkist, I believe in the unification of Turkic peoples and countries in economy , in culture. And I stronglly believe that this unification is not helpfull only for the turkic nations but also for the brother nations which were parts of our history common; like tajiks, Arabs, Pakistanis..

Also I must add that I am not racist and do not accept this ideology. Nobody can be superior to another one by his race. This ideology doesn't belong to eastern peoples , it was born in western countries and exported to our countries.


2. Among muslims in Balkans, especially in Bosnia, Ottoman period of their history is considered as the glorious and prosperity days of their nations. You must'n forget that they were converted to Islam by Ottomans in peace. After left by the ottomans, they realized the worst days of their history. MAybe some rebellion could be happened against Ottomans in Bosnia or in Koosova but the reality in Balkans show that Turks are still missed.. I have been several times in Balkans and I suggest you to visit these lands as a Turk and you'll see the difference.



3.Turkes is considered "aka" by Dudayev. And believe me, It's only with the helps and efforts of Alparslan Turkes that turkish officers went to Chechenia to train the Chechen army, sent military aids.

Thank you kursad, now can you explain the same things to Demir as well? Especially the part I highlighted

[Demir Kağan]

I ofcourse agree on what kurshad say.

This is your problem if you don't understand me. ;)

[Karayılan]

Turansoyu also.
Why do u hate me man?

[kurshad]

Arabs did not betray you, they betrayed Islam.

So did Turks by of non-muslims in the war between non-muslim nations.

Ottoman Empire was first betrayed by Turk nationalist, by spreading their nationalistic ideas, then again by Turks by signing alliance with non-muslims and only after that by other nationalist movments (including arabs).

PanTurkist saying that he does not like Arabs (who betrayed them) is like Skinhead saying that he does not like nazists.


1. Ottoman's lands were already occupied by western countries before the war. Italians occupied Libya, English army occupied Egypte, Bulgarians rebelled and obtained the autonomy so did Greeks, Armenians were rebelling at the east. Ottomans saw this war as an opportunity to save his lands.

2. Ottoman empire was not betrayed by Turkish nationalists but defended by them. Turkish nationalism was born very after the rebellions of non muslims and arabs. The will of Turkish panturkists was to save and protect the ottoman lands. And if you observe this ideology at that period , you'll notice that it had very Islamic colors at the same time.

3. You can't compare a panturkist intellectuel with a skin head. Before all, panturkist ideology is not racist. It doesn't divide the nations but unify them in spite of the differencies.

[kurshad]

Thank you kursad, now can you explain the same things to Demir as well? Especially the part I highlighted

My friend,

When you hear the word "panturkist" , you already prepare your arguments about racism, arabhater,skinhead...

Panturkism is the name of unification, brotherhood of turkic nations.

Btw, if you ask me, I also support the union of arabs. I think every muslims countries must unify in this world where the USA is the only power.

Because there is no security for us if we don't collaborate each other..

[Abu-Hafiza]

I ofcourse agree on what kurshad say.

This is your problem if you don't understand me. ;)
Re-read your posts. Dont you ever tell me that you love arabs when you actually say that children dieing in palestine are paying for their grandfathers. Your posts:
Due to Mescid-i Aksa is there, Palestine is the problem of the whole Islamic World, not Arabs. Do you think that that Arab told that without knowing that? Absolutely no. This is why he said.
...
It may be 100 years ago, but they are still betrayer. We didn't forget the ASALA's home place was Lebanon. :wink: Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon are paying what they must...
...
If you are in war with a country, there is nothing you can do but destroying it. This is not true but you don't have any else choice but doing it. Why? Because when the children grow up, they will be enemy to you.

....

We can seperate nonPanTurkists as two group:
1) Islamists
2) People who are on the side of West.
Those two group are harmful to Turkey and Turkey's brothers. Both turn their back to them.
....

Prophet Muhammet is a big politician. If he killed every single infidel or mushrik or whatever in Makkah or Taif, how could he claim that his religion is a peacemaker religion? How could he claim that the religion is not into wars?


Now these are what you said, how am i supposed to understand them? You hate arabs and kurshad doesnt, this makes big difference. I don thate neither, I hate ultra nationalists from both sides.

Loving one's nation shouldnt lead to hating other nations. I love uzbeks, i dont hate kazakhs, kyrgyzs or tajiks. I love arabs, the ones who doesnt push their chauvinism. I love turks from Turkey in fact I have more friends in turkey then where I live.
Why do u hate me man? I dont hate you, all i was saying is the responce to your threads and to the threads of deryambel and genc_turk show what is the attitude of uzbeks towards panturkists. I dont agree with those people but you should know that there is a reason why uzbeks dont like those kind of talks
Kisaca soylemek gerekirse, ozbeklerin size olan tepkisini anlamaniz gerekiyor. Ben her iki tarafi iyi anliyorum, size tepki gosterenler sizi tam anlamiyor yada yanlis bilgi sahibidirler ama siz bazen yazdiklariniz seyler o tepkiyi daha sertlesmesine sebep oluyorsunuz.

And Kurshad. I respect your views and agree with most of what you are saying. But one should remember that both sides had faults. Yes, arabs did things that they shouldnt have done, yes they were very very wrong and I denounce them for that. But ottomans during those times were not angels as well. Both sides had faults but i agree that arabs were in more fault then turks.

But saying that, it was in history. We should seek ways of uniting muslims, not fighting each other for what our "grandfathers" did.

EDITED
PS: When you hear the word "panturkist" , you already prepare your arguments about racism, arabhater,skinhead...
Not in one place I was against pan turkism. I was against "hatred of other nations" and the concept of "children paying for their fathers". Please be careful when you accuse someone on something.

[Demir Kağan]

Kisaca soylemek gerekirse, ozbeklerin size olan tepkisini anlamaniz gerekiyor. Ben her iki tarafi iyi anliyorum, size tepki gosterenler sizi tam anlamiyor yada yanlis bilgi sahibidirler ama siz bazen yazdiklariniz seyler o tepkiyi daha sertlesmesine sebep oluyorsunuz.
Böyle konuş canımı ye aka. :)

[Karayılan]

Kisaca soylemek gerekirse, ozbeklerin size olan tepkisini anlamaniz gerekiyor. Ben her iki tarafi iyi anliyorum, size tepki gosterenler sizi tam anlamiyor yada yanlis bilgi sahibidirler ama siz bazen yazdiklariniz seyler o tepkiyi daha sertlesmesine sebep oluyorsunuz.Ben tepki gosterilebilecek bir baslik acmadim. Ozbek kardeslerimiz icin actigim basliklar genelde kultureldir. Bknz. "Which Turkic country do you like most?" basligini ben actim. Ancak dalga gectiler, sacma sozler soylediler. Halbuki benim niyetim aramizda bir paylasim yasanmasiydi. Ulkelerimiz hakkinda konusmaktan baska bir amacim yoktu. Bu amacimi yanlis anlayanlar icin yapabilecegim bir sey yok. Onlar art niyetlidir cunku.

Ayrica acikca soyleyeyim, burada cogunuz neyi neden savundugunuzu bile bilmiyorsunuz. Cogu zaman Ozbekler ile gecen tartismalarda bir cok Ozbek'in bir biriyle alakasiz postlar attiklarini gordum "Do we need pan-turkist movement?" basligina bakin ne demek istedigimi rahatca anlarsiniz.

Kendine iyi bak. Bir ara P.M atarsan daha ayrintili konusabiliriz. Hem de bir birimizi daha iyi anlariz.

[Tabriz_Han]

Salafi
I didnt say that arabs didnt betray turks,

Hormetli qardesim, Arabs didn't betray Turks, they betrayed the UMMAH! not just Turks but the entire muslim world.

Now I don't mean all Arabs, the Magreb Arabs thought bravely alongside fellow muslims and were united against the colonist European powers. Also Arabs in Southern Turkey joined the muslims against the Brittish and French and also some tribes didn't join the traitorous other Arab tribes.

The result of Arab opression today is due to the actions of some Arabs of the middle-east who sold out the entire muslim world for their Arab nationalism. They were promised that they would be made King of Arabia, after WW1 the Saudi Arab tribe became King of the Arab lands. These puppets just filled their pockets, raped the region, took the Arab peoples money, sold the Arab peoples resources to their masters and are the result of the suffering today.

The muslim world was united, Algerians, Turks, Indian muslims even brothers from Acheh and Nigeria but we all were stabbed in the back at the most critical time by some middle eastern Arab tribes.

They then used their money to repress Arab society, they only care about their family and when the oil runs out they will run away to America where they have bought 10% of the country.

This family SOLD palestine, yes sold the land, just a few decades before, AbdulHamid Han II made a promise to not sell an inch of the land but it was the Arabs there themselves who sold it. And now they complain? how can they complain, they destroyed themselves.

Now look at the muslim world, there Wahabbi Brittish controlled operations have spread hatred, they have given muslims an image of being backwards, against human rights and repressive. They try to use religion for their pollitical goals. Where we didn't have problems with Jews through history they suddenly tried to make Jews an enemy.



But you are forgetting that it was done in the HISTORY some 100 years ago and you know nothing about the state of muslims, turks, arabs and so on during those times.

My friend, even Iran was supporting Sunni muslims in this period. It was a critical point, if those Arab tribes had stayed with their brothers, today the situation would have been very different.


Should we hold palestinian innocent dead people acocuntable for what their ancestors did?

Ofcourse not, our Palestinian brothers and sisters today even admit and are ashamed of this. Its not their fault this happened, we must learn from our mistakes.

A resolve must be found, however, look at Palestines neighbours, the Arab states don't care about them, infact they even now support Israel against Iran and forgot about Palestine.

Today there is Israel and the Jews there are going to stay there so a comprimise between the Jews and Palestinians must be found, we have to be realistic. And have to somehow help the Palestinians from fighting a civil war.


I support pan-turkism on the basis of a union of Turkic states, I also support muslim world and unity among the brothers. However, we must be realistic, first we must take control of ourselves and find strength in unity. This can be achieved by Turks uniting, Arabs united, Pakistan-Indian muslims uniting and so on. If there is a Turkic union of states this is good news for the muslim world and naturally they will have good relations with muslim states. The problems today are caused because for example, Arab leaders don't serve Arab people and so on.

Supporting Turkic unity doesn't make somebody against Islam, supporting muslim world doesn't make one against Turkic union of states, they both support each other, AbdulHamid Han II, the Tatar Turk intellects etc showed this years before.

It has nothing to do with racism, its against racism, its logical, were Turks why should we be divided? why should we not co-operate, help and strengthen ourselves. Our minds have been polluted by those who fear our unity telling us that talking about unity of Turkic states is racist. No, its not at all, were not claiming lands of non Turks, just more unity among existing Turkic states. I also support Arab unity. Tell me, who does Arabs being divided help? who does it serve? definately not Arabs. Look at SHAM, Sham is the lands of Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordon, why are there four states? they are the same people, all that being seperate helps is those that want to weaken Arab people and put them against each other.

[Gareeb]

Turklarga aslo g'arazim yo'q ammo millatchilarini ko'rarga ko'zim otarga o'qim yo'q.
Salafi bunday miyasi qotganlar bilan tortishishdan naf yo'q.Bularni o'z holiga tashlab qo'yish kerak to Qiyomatgacha o'z yog'ida o'zi qovurilib kimlarnidir o'tmishdagi xatosiga alam qilib kuyib o'tib ketaversin.

[Borz_man]

Arab va ajam orasida hech qanday
farq yo'qligi Muslimlarga ma'lum va mashhur masala.
Biz ohiratimizni o'ylab yahshi insonlardan o'rnak olishimiz
kerak.Dunyoda qanchadan qancha ajoyib Arab,Turk,Uzbek
va hakozo millatlariga mansub insonlar o'tishgan.Har bir
millatning yahshi vakili bo'lgandan yomon vakiliham bo'lishi tabiiy.
Tarihda ibratlanishgayam,nafratlanishgayam sababchi bo'lgan
insonlar naqadar ko'p.Bularni hatosini butun millatga yoyishlik
nihoyatda hunuk bir holat,qadrlik birodorlar:
kelinglar millatchilik qilganlar bizdanmas degan manodagi
hadisga amal qilib qolaylik.Bu hadisni sanadi bilan keltirgan
birodarimizga tashakkurlar aytib qolamiz...

[2:216]

Allah Allah...

Uzbeks are treated badly by turks ha??? I think you have some complexes of inferiorty, that's all...

I don't think, I KNOW, that pan-turkists have a delusion of superiority

[2:216]

How ironic is that with soooo many Turkish names around, "Ataturk"s first name was Mustafa, an Arabic name :) :) :)

[Demir Kağan]

We didn't choose our names. If we could, I'd do it Demir Kağan. ;)

And my name is Muhammet. ;)

[Ulug'bek]

We didn't choose our names. If we could, I'd do it Demir Kağan. ;)

And my name is Muhammet. ;)

You have of course freedom for wishing/doing whatever you want, altough you are responsible for ALL you do ...

However, to see my muslim brother disliking/regretting to be named by his own prophet's name hurted me a lot ... :(


on:
An excerpt form the last sermon of Islam's Prophet:

"O people, your Lord is One, and your father is one: all of you are from Adam, and Adam was from the ground. The noblest of you in Allah’s sight is the most godfearing: Arab has no merit over non-Arab other than godfearingness. Have I given the message? -- O Allah, be my witness.

-- At this, they said yes.

He said, Then let whomever is present tell whomever is absent!".
Reported by Ahmad in his musnad and al-Bayhaqi in his al-sunan. It was classified as sahih hadith (al-Sahihah, 6, p.203.) See a commentary of it here: http://muslim-canada.org/farewell.htm

يا أيها الناس إن ربكم واحد وأباكم واحد ألا لا فضل لعربي على عجمي ولا لعجمي على عربي ولا أسود على أحمر ولا أحمر على أسود إلا بالتقوى .
ألا هل بلغت؟ قالوا: بلى يا رسول الله
قال فليبلغ الشاهد الغائب


In another version it sounds as below:

“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood!"

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/sermon.html

[Demir Kağan]

You have of course freedom for wishing/doing whatever you want, altough you are responsible for ALL you do ...

However, to see my muslim brother disliking/regretting to be named by his own prophet's name hurted me a lot ... :(


No brother, you got me wrong. I meant if they'd ask me before saying me any name, I'd make my name Demir Kağan. I am really happy with my name and I have two names which has the same meaning in Arabic. :)

[Kaptan-i Derya]

You have of course freedom for wishing/doing whatever you want, altough you are responsible for ALL you do ...

However, to see my muslim brother disliking/regretting to be named by his own prophet's name hurted me a lot ... :(


on:
An excerpt form the last sermon of Islam's Prophet:

"O people, your Lord is One, and your father is one: all of you are from Adam, and Adam was from the ground. The noblest of you in Allah’s sight is the most godfearing: Arab has no merit over non-Arab other than godfearingness. Have I given the message? -- O Allah, be my witness.

-- At this, they said yes.

He said, Then let whomever is present tell whomever is absent!".
Reported by Ahmad in his musnad and al-Bayhaqi in his al-sunan. It was classified as sahih hadith (al-Sahihah, 6, p.203.) See a commentary of it here: http://muslim-canada.org/farewell.htm

يا أيها الناس إن ربكم واحد وأباكم واحد ألا لا فضل لعربي على عجمي ولا لعجمي على عربي ولا أسود على أحمر ولا أحمر على أسود إلا بالتقوى .
ألا هل بلغت؟ قالوا: بلى يا رسول الله
قال فليبلغ الشاهد الغائب


In another version it sounds as below:

“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood!"

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/sermon.html

Ulug'bek thanks for your clarification but i have one question regarding chosing arabic names or not.

As a Muslim, is it a must to chose an arabic name or give arabic names to your relatives (newborn child or so)?? If you do know that many of those arabic "Islamic" names dates before Islamic era (dersaadet) or even in the dersaadet era when there where arabs with pagan beliefs.

For example my original name is "Kenan" and it is semitic in origin, as i look up to the dictionary it says "an ancient people who lived and ruled south-eastern anatolia for a long period, a holy mountan in Palestina, was a province in Palestine".

So do you think it is a must for a muslim to give "Islamic" names to their children?

[Bilge_Kagan]

Turklarga aslo g'arazim yo'q ammo millatchilarini ko'rarga ko'zim otarga o'qim yo'q.
Salafi bunday miyasi qotganlar bilan tortishishdan naf yo'q.Bularni o'z holiga tashlab qo'yish kerak to Qiyomatgacha o'z yog'ida o'zi qovurilib kimlarnidir o'tmishdagi xatosiga alam qilib kuyib o'tib ketaversin.

Why did you say that kind of thing ?

[Ulug'bek]

Ulug'bek thanks for your clarification but i have one question regarding chosing arabic names or not.

As a Muslim,[B] is it a must to chose an arabic name or give arabic names to your relatives (newborn child or so)??
....

Ofcourse, it is not a must, what I talked about is different as you know...

[Tabriz_Han]

Who does Arab division help?
Who does Turk divison help?
Who does muslim division help?

Would some of you just listen to yourselves, how can there be muslim unity when you think uniting is racist :?

How is it racist for Arabs who are Arabs to unite and get rid of man made borders which were drawn by non-Arab foreigners.

How is it racist for Turks who are Turks to unite and get rid of man made borders which were drawn by non-Turk foreiegners.

With such a mentallity which has been forced on the masses by those who try to rule us we'll be subject to masters untill we shake off their chains and start to take control of ourselves. Apparently its racist for Arabs to not serve the Brittish and French and its racist for Turks not to serve Russians but its called a glorious act of civiilisation and humanity for them to rob our lands, exploit our people and install oppressive leaders.

When will we wake up.

TITRE VE KENDINE KEL

[Kaptan-i Derya]

Ofcourse, it is not a must, what I talked about is different as you know...

no mine question had nothing todo with your explanation, it did stuck in my mind for a long period and I did it ask to you.

Thanks for your answer.

[Kaptan-i Derya]

Why did you say that kind of thing ?

what did he say? I do understand some words but cant get an idea of what he's talking.

[Bilge_Kagan]

Ozetle; Turklere asla garezim yok ama bu milliyetcileri gormeye gozum, duymaya kulagim yok. Bunlarla tartismakta fayda yok. Bunlari kendi haline birakmak gerek kendi yaglarinda kendileri kavrulsunlar...tadinda birsey, net anlayamadigim yerler var ama anlayamadigim kisimlarin anafikri degistirecegini sanmiyorum.

[ILAH1]

Now look at the muslim world, there Wahabbi Brittish controlled operations have spread hatred, they have given muslims an image of being backwards, against human rights and repressive. They try to use religion for their pollitical goals. Where we didn't have problems with Jews through history they suddenly tried to make Jews an enemy.


very true. 1,000,000 Jews in arab countries in 1948. 6,500 now. in every turkic state, more jews than entire arab countries.
they were Arab Jews! Islam did not hate jews. nationalism ruined it all. Jewish country can peacefully coexist with arab world. the mufti ruined it all :evil: because of nationalism which was against Islam! Jews are people of the book. maybe still even fixable today. but only by peace!


Today there is Israel and the Jews there are going to stay there so a comprimise between the Jews and Palestinians must be found, we have to be realistic. And have to somehow help the Palestinians from fighting a civil war.


true. compromise is possible. hatred not built-in. how can it be? 3,000 years they were brothers! now hard to undo hatred :( but still possible!

[Ulug'bek]

This thread was dedicated to arab non-arab problems and not to Israeli-Palestinian (/Israeli-Muslim) problems.
Please stick to the topic, otherwise it will be closed or moved to an appropriate thread ...