Muslim Hypocricy? or please prove me wrong... [Archive] - Uzbekistan Online Forum

Freestyler@

11-05-2001, 06:07 AM

Some statistics from the Sunday Express (one of the most read newspapers in UK):

4(!) out of 10 British muslims said that Osama Bin Laden could be justified.

1 out of 10 British muslims said that the attacks on NewYork were totally justified.
--------------------------------

I think this statistics shows the hypocricy of the many among the British muslims. Of course nobody has a right to deny their freedom of speech, but are those muslims fair?!?!

The majority of those muslims are immigrants or descendants of them. They all have been benefiting from the democracy and tolerance from the native British people, they have been let into the UK with respect and hospitality, their rights being treated equally with christians and other non-muslims. Yet, very same muslims (well, not all of them, luckily, but there are a number, which is quite alarming to my point of view) support and justify Osama and the terrorists attacks - those cruel bastards who fight against the very system that the British muslims are benefitting now from.

Why is that when europeans travel to Islamic countries they always respect the rules of the country, many try to wear long skirts and cover their face and hair, not smoke and drink in public places etc.
And why is that when it comes to muslims emmigrating to Europe, they demand respect for their culture and faith but do not wish to abide by the european culture, and, what's worth, even cry out to condemn it?!?!

The question was asked to the local British on a street: "Should or should not the british muslims abide by the european culture?".
To my admiration, most of the respondents answered in a following manner:"No they don't have to, it should be left up to them".
The most "intolerant" answer I heard was:"Yes they should, but they don't have to necessarily quit their religion for the sake of it."
That's what I call real tolerance and freedom of faith!!! But, unfortunately, I haven't witnessed the reciprocal treatment towards non-muslims from muslims themselves. Is it because muslims think they are the elects of Allah and only they know what God really wants from them? ???

I wonder if the muslims in Islamic states would answer in a similar manner were they asked the same question about non-muslims wishing to live in their country?!?!?!?!
==========================
Keep it Fair!
Respectfully,
Chijik

nobody

11-05-2001, 07:05 AM

Very emotional statement.

Never judge by your emotions.

I can say the same about other Brithish people who support bombing Afghanistan. You know how many innocent people die in Afgh-n directly or indirectly from bombing. But did you see how Americans celebrated that? They are fighting againist civilians, kids, women and old people , while themselves "condemning" the very action as "terrorism". Is that Westren hypocrisy? I think you read in newspapers how those British approve bombing and killing innocent people in Afganistan. Is this British hypocracy?
You want to judge about muslims? Do you understand what their (our) faith stands for? do you feel it? Do you have a little understand of it?

When Muslims condemn the west or the country where they live currently , westrener start to cry "You live in our country, you enjoy our freedom (freedom given by us), so you have no right to critisize our policy, or support people who we are againist". Is not it hypocricy?

1 out of 10 British muslims said that the attacks on NewYork were totally justified.

Did they asked South Americans? I believe it would be even more. Did they asked eastren Asians? Did they asked Afrikans? Are all of them hypocryts? Do you think whoever againist westren policy is hypocryte?

I personally never support killing civilians. It is cowards job. Thats why i don't support American bombing of Afg-n, neither 911 events.

I'll post rest of my opinion later, inshAlloh.......

vsyo tot je neznakomec

11-05-2001, 07:51 AM

ne toka musul'mane opravdivayut Usoma bin Ladena! tut est' ochen' mnogo narodu kotoriye protiv vneshney politiki USA, oni poluchili to chego zaslujivayut, no k sojaleniyu postradali ni v chyom ne povinniye lyudi! :( ya voobshe protiv nasiliya, no "kustik" sam vinudil kogo-to eto sdelat', no eto odnoznachno ne Osama!
cheers,

stranger(*)

11-05-2001, 09:29 PM

In my view the reason why the number of muslims that you think is alarming support and justify Mr. Osaman Bin Laden and terrorist attacks is probably there is feeling of muslim brothers although I heard that they should be got out of isolation. And I think Muslims who really understand Islam abide European cultute but in thier own interpretations and certain rules. And this is the way it should be, because cultures learn from each other.

cheers

javanmard

11-06-2001, 08:04 AM

Freestyler makes a good point. You guys are not getting his point. Many Sick south Americans or East Asians may (there is no proof of this) think the Sept. 11 attack was justified. I doubt this very much, but for arguments sake lets say they did say this.

They are not living in the West!! It is fair to say that most of the so-called Muslims living in the west, went there to escape conditions of poverty and lack of political freedom. Now that there stomachs are full they make statements like this.

I implore the governments of the west to throw these monkies out of there countries and let in Muslims who are willing to assimilate and become "one" with the community.

stud

11-06-2001, 09:37 AM

maybe your point makes sence,

but there are also others, who approve this kind of terrorist acts. So I noticed it among some russian, african or chinease students over here, many of them don't feel sorrow about killings, even express their satisfaction.

I think this anti-american propaganda from the cold war time still hast its effects, mentality of some people still suffer from this phenomenon.

Freestyler@ (Nov 05, 2001 05:07):
Some statistics from the Sunday Express (one of the most read newspapers in UK):

4(!) out of 10 British muslims said that Osama Bin Laden could be justified.

1 out of 10 British muslims said that the attacks on NewYork were totally justified.
--------------------------------

I think this statistics shows the hypocricy of the many among the British muslims. Of course nobody has a right to deny their freedom of speech, but are those muslims fair?!?!

The majority of those muslims are immigrants or descendants of them. They all have been benefiting from the democracy and tolerance from the native British people, they have been let into the UK with respect and hospitality, their rights being treated equally with christians and other non-muslims. Yet, very same muslims (well, not all of them, luckily, but there are a number, which is quite alarming to my point of view) support and justify Osama and the terrorists attacks - those cruel bastards who fight against the very system that the British muslims are benefitting now from.

Why is that when europeans travel to Islamic countries they always respect the rules of the country, many try to wear long skirts and cover their face and hair, not smoke and drink in public places etc.
And why is that when it comes to muslims emmigrating to Europe, they demand respect for their culture and faith but do not wish to abide by the european culture, and, what's worth, even cry out to condemn it?!?!

The question was asked to the local British on a street: "Should or should not the british muslims abide by the european culture?".
To my admiration, most of the respondents answered in a following manner:"No they don't have to, it should be left up to them".
The most "intolerant" answer I heard was:"Yes they should, but they don't have to necessarily quit their religion for the sake of it."
That's what I call real tolerance and freedom of faith!!! But, unfortunately, I haven't witnessed the reciprocal treatment towards non-muslims from muslims themselves. Is it because muslims think they are the elects of Allah and only they know what God really wants from them? ???

I wonder if the muslims in Islamic states would answer in a similar manner were they asked the same question about non-muslims wishing to live in their country?!?!?!?!
==========================
Keep it Fair!
Respectfully,
Chijik

Freestyler@

11-06-2001, 10:56 AM

Konechno, licemeri bili i budut sredi vseh naciy...

underloaded_

11-06-2001, 11:19 AM

Nedavno smotrel peredachu po ABC, gde nekotorie Egiptskie studenti viskazalis' sleduyushim obrazom:
"kak amerikanskoe pravitel'stvo, tak i Usama s talibami yavliayutsia terroristami. Pochemu mi doljni kogo-to iz nih podderjivat'? I te , i drugie osushestvliayut svoi temnie delishki, za spinami svoih narodov, a zatem podstavliayut vraga dlia svoego opravdaniya "

Tak vot, eta tochka zreniya mne blije , chem te ,chto bili viskazani vishe. Chtobi bit' ob'ektivnim v lubom voprose, "Try to walk in somebody else's shoes"

Cheers

nobody

11-07-2001, 06:38 AM

Why is that when europeans travel to Islamic countries they always respect the rules of the country, many try to wear long skirts and cover their face and hair, not smoke and drink in public places etc.
And why is that when it comes to muslims emmigrating to Europe, they demand respect for their culture and faith but do not wish to abide by the european culture, and, what's worth, even cry out to condemn it?!?!

Yes , thats right, but you are comparing 2 different things. First of all, wearing long skirts, covering face and hair, not smoking and drinking in public places is not againist their religion, is it?
Or do their religion demand them to go uncovered certain parts of body or to drink in public places? Their religion allows it , not demands. I think you can spot the difference between these words. Then, in Islam a muslim should cover certain parts of body and not to do some prohibited actions in whatever place they are, it does not matter whether it is home or abroad. If a muslim abides so called european culture abondoning Islam he/she becomes hypocryte, thats it. Islam does not change depending upon place and time.
Besides these, Islam does not order to immorality, so why should not europeans respect it? ( Of course it depends how one interprets the word moral).
Regarding condemning european culture, please show exact facts. Even if muslims do that whats wrong with that? If something is wrong why it should not be condemned? Or you believe that european culture is universal and perfect?

Is it because muslims think they are the elects of Allah and only they know what God really wants from them?
There is no such a word, or at least i haven't heard it yet, that "muslims are elects of Allah". As for second part of the question ask yourself " Whether muslims or non-muslims know better what Allah ( as muslims call God) wants from them " .

referee

11-07-2001, 06:53 AM

Muslim Hypocricy? What about Christian Hypocracy? Do I sound now radical? Why do we have to single out Muslims?

When the surveys are conducted with non-Muslim British people, and there are opinions against war and/or critisising American foreign policy - then it is a democratic way! But when Muslims show solidarity with their brothers and peacefully express their concern regarding pressing issues, and have opposing views, then it is Hypocracy?!

I hate to say that but the conduct of this war is undemocratic in its roots - the slogan ' you are with us (americans) or against us' does not leave any democratic choice for many million people who are disgusted by the double-standards (Hypocracy) of American foreign policy and are against discriminate killing of innocent civilians!

You must be naive to think that Western people don't impose their culture on Muslim societies and stay 'sensitive' to their culture. Have you heard of globalization, American expension, IMF and many other instruments which dictate to accept western way or starve to death.That is just one example of imposing Western values to the rest of the world.

And you must be naive to think that Brit.Muslims are too insensitive to the British culture. How come that British culture is equated to the Christian dogma, many belive that Brit society is a multicultural society, including many religions and culture, islam being one of them. So, there is nothing wrong being Muslim and British!

And it is the high time that we stop scape-ghoating Muslims, that is how we make them alienated...Do we blame Christianity when anti-globalisatinists or anarchists and other mainly Christian people commit arocities? Have we blamed Christianity when Serbs were killing Bosnians and the West was watching till it was becoming too dangerous to watch, when Russia indiscriminately harassing Chechen civilians just because they are Chechens and .... And why is that we call the threat of Islamic terrorism and start chasing for evidence of a Muslim being a potential terrorist when some crazy people blow up 6000 people including 2000 Muslims?

I think that British Muslims are more innocent than hypocrate when they express their opinions openly, because they don't realise that they are being witch-hunted!!!

Freestyler@

11-07-2001, 12:29 PM

<referee>, thanks, your first two paragraphs proved me wrong, which I'm glad to admit.
<nobody>, surprisingly, some of your words do make some sense here ;)
----------------------
P.S. <referee>, I disagree with your arguements against the globalisation... It's another much disputed topic, so I'm not gonna waste my and your time arguing on that. I just want to make clear my stance towards globalisation:
Globalisation IS taking place. I believe it very well fits within the evolutionary paradigm of civilisational development. Yes, it does mean that globalisation is a "threat" to traditional and isolated societies and that more powerful cultures will eventually wipe out the diversity of smaller, less influential cultures. But those who'll oppose it, will be doomed to remain in the past and be at the back of technological, scientific and economic development. It's like when you know that there is such thing as an e-mail or chat to communicate with your friends, but some still prefer old-fashioned letters not realizing how much they are loosing out.

Here is the list of ten benefits from a globalised economy, however I believe the list is still far from exhaustive. Those who are interested, please browse the WTO's website and read on all the 10 benefits.

Freestyler@

11-07-2001, 12:30 PM

<referee>, thanks, your first two paragraphs proved me wrong, which I'm glad to admit.
<nobody>, surprisingly, some of your words do make some sense here ;)
----------------------
P.S. <referee>, I disagree with your arguements against the globalisation... It's another much disputed topic, so I'm not gonna waste my and your time arguing on that. I just want to make clear my stance towards globalisation:
Globalisation IS taking place. I believe it very well fits within the evolutionary paradigm of civilisational development. Yes, it does mean that globalisation is a "threat" to traditional and isolated societies and that more powerful cultures will eventually wipe out the diversity of smaller, less influential cultures. But those who'll oppose it, will be doomed to remain in the past and be at the back of technological, scientific and economic development. It's like when you know that there is such thing as an e-mail or chat to communicate with your friends, but some still prefer old-fashioned letters not realizing how much they are loosing out.
Here (http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/10ben_e/10b00_e.htm) is the list of ten benefits from a globalised economy, however I believe the list is still far from exhaustive. Those who are interested, please browse the WTO's website and read on all the 10 benefits.

referee

11-08-2001, 10:40 AM

i absolutely agree that some sort of globalisation is unavoidable and is happening as we speak; but the big question what WE, the globalising people, want it to look like... Will it be another wave of colonisation and imperialism? Will it incorporate other cultures and religions or will it make one religion or culture dominate the others? The thing is that globalisation should not be for the sake of globalisation, but for the benefit of the globe! It may sound idealistic but giving trivial examples are not worty of attention...

Akhee-Abdullah

11-09-2001, 04:24 AM

Well Freestyler, What A statement!!! I wish I had replied to your message earlier, unfortunately as many goods time is also a scarce resource :(

To Proceed:
[img="http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/arabic/4_29.gif"]
O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you. (Quran 4:29)

[img="http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/arabic/4_30.gif"]
And whoever commits that (committing suicide or killing others) through aggression and injustice , We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allah.(Quran 4:30)

Based on these verses, I can say: Whoever thinks (Muslim or nonmuslim) that the September events can be justified by Islaamic teachings, is indeed in deep ignorance and has no right to lie against the Book of Allah.

I am not saying that none of the Muslims justify the September events. Personally, I do know two of them. When I asked, they replied, "America got what she deserved." I got curious and furthered the question, "Do you know that in September events one thousand five-hundred muslims were killed along with other 5000? Do you know that on the planes were more than 10 Muslim Americans who in no way were related to the terrorists?" They were shocked by the death of Muslims and had no answer.
I have an answer!! These type of people (I am referring to certain "Muslims") do not cherish non-muslim life. They start to cry when a Muslim is or Muslims are being killed. This is what I call a hypocricy, Webster's definition a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not

What does really Islaam call for? Is that killing, forcing others into Islaam, Crashing into WTC and killing civilians what Islaam teaches?? Let's again address The Book.

The Word of your Lord is perfect in truth and Justice (Quran 6:15)
Be just, for Justice is nearest to piety. (Quran 5:9)
We sent our messengers with the Book and the Balance, so that mankind may establish justice. (Quran 57:25)

And now let's refer to the Ahadith;
From Abu Dharr al-Ghifari: The Prophet, peace be upon him, reported that His Lord said;"O my creatures! I have forbidden injustice for Myself and have also forbidden it among you, so do not unjust to each other... (Saheeh Muslim, Kitab al-Birr wa al-Silah wa al-Adab, Bab Tahrim al-Zulm)

Let's give the turn to the Muslim scholars of the past times;

The basis of the Shariah is the Wisdom and welfare of the People in this world as well as the Hereafter. This welfare lies in complete justice, mercy, well-being and wisdom. Anything that departs from justice to opression, from mercy to harshness (cruelty), from welfare to misery and from wisdom to folly, has nothing to do with Sharia Ibn al Qayyim (1292-1350 C.E.)

The very objective of the Shariah is to promote the welfare of the people which lies in safeguarding their faith (any faith), their intellect, their posterity and their property. Whatever ensures the safeguard of these five serves public interest and desirable Al-Ghazzali
(1058-1111)

It is must have been quite clear that Islaam calls for Justice, Mercy and Well-being amongst Humanity. No further interpretation is needed, it is so obvious for an open minded person.

Akhee-Abdullah

11-09-2001, 04:24 AM

And no let's look at some statments that Freestyler had made:

Freestyler-I think this statistics shows the hypocricy of the many among the British muslims

Dear Freestyler, in advance I wanna let you know that I have not intended any offence towards your personality. I am gonna criticize your statements.

REMEMBER: Statistics DOES NOT prove anything wrong or right. All it does is make you more or less confident about the issue you are interested in.

Freestyler-bases his statement on this quote 1 out of 10 British muslims said that the attacks on NewYork were totally justified.

Excuse me Sir!!! Have you taken any Statistics?? (I hope so) Somth called a "Hypothesis testing" (if i am not mistaken) is used to make a statement about a population based on the sample information. And most of the time 90% to 95% confidence level is used to justify the statement. Given H-a hypothesis "sample mean"="some value", to prove it true you gotta prove that it is true given some critical value and the degree of freedom, then you may reject the hypothesis H-b "sample mean" not equal to "some value" and accept H-a. I am not critcizing the survey that you quoted neither am I trying to confuse people by trying to show how "smartie" I am as "FIX" referred to me in another thread. All I am saying is "in order to make a blank and firm statement about a population you gotta know what you talking about." Personally, what I understood from this quote was only 10% of the British Muslims, according to the sample, believed that September events could be justified, the rest 90% percent did not believe that it could be justified. I might have thought about buying this bull, I think this statistics shows the hypocricy of the many among the British muslims, if at least 51% of the British Muslims held that idea.

Earlier in this message, I mentioned two of the guys whom I knew,whom I dared to criticize. Now, I wanna mention the hypocricy of the non-muslims. There are people who mourn about a dog which got killed in the traffic accident. And the same very "humane"s do not even have a second thought while talking about the numbers of Civilian Afghanis being killed in Afghanistan. Are a dog and nonmuslim blood so precious than muslim blood? Does Muslim blood worth nothing? Why do not you guys show your feelings, sorrow (if you do, of course) about the Afghanis? They are also human beings, are not they?? They have more rights to exist than animals do, in my opinion.

Basically, hypocricy is everywhere and more importantly in the very people who brag about their Justice. Not only Muslims are the victims of this evil act (hypocricy) but the rest of the world also. Talking about only Muslim hypocricy while excluding the rest is itself an act of hypocricy, lack of shame and responsiblity.

The matter of the Fact is The Statement itslef is inherently and apparently Wrong. According to the Logistics, the Wrong does not need any proof to prove it wrong.
"Have a break, Have a kit-kat" (Snickers also would not hurt ;) )

Cheers, :)

Chijik (aka Freestyler)

11-09-2001, 10:33 AM

There is no need to mention all that scientific staff about statistics, <Lucky>. And yes, I have done statistics and know all that staff. The only thing that you refute apparantly is that 10% (or 1 out of ten, call it however you wish) is not much. OK, let it be so - not much. :) But still it is 10%. It's like in that anecdote:... the glass is half full of water, - no the glass is half empty. :) Further, it is not Finance (by which you seem to be obsessed ) to judge about the meaning of the word many when the figure exceeds 50%. :)

Besides, I already admitted that I was wrong calling it hypocricy. I can understand that muslims judge according to their own interests and values and I have to respect that. However it still seems a little bit unfair to me that because of this moral obedience to religous values, muslims do not practice the same tolerance towards westerners who are free of such moral duties.
Hence this unfair treatment I believe stems from the fact that europeans value more the tolerance towards any culture irrespective of the fact that it is sound with the christian values or not (the fact that I admire in them most), while muslims value the obedience to the God in the first place and only afterwards the tolerance within the limits Islamic rules...
--------------------
P.S. I hate Snickers, it gives me heart burn :) BTW, be careful <Lucky>, Snickers uses some preservatives derived from the pigs' fat!

bratishkaa

11-09-2001, 02:42 PM

Hi,finally I got to weekends and today I afford myself some two-three hours of freedom. The narrow leeway is due to exam on Monday..
Guys, there is freedom of speech recognized all over the world. This freedom consists of two components: statement of facts and expressing of opinion. When expressing opinion invidual has no absolute limits but right and dignity of other individual. Rights of other should be respected... since it obliges the other to respect yours..
When using Muslim Hypocricy expression dignity of not only those ones out of tens , but dignity of the rest whom word "muslim" is not just a label is seriously breached...
Let's differentiate Islam, Muslim, Person of Muslim origin, Arab, Pakistani, Uzbek ;they are not the same words...

jafridi

11-11-2001, 10:17 AM

Muslims in the UK in general do not support their government on the aggression against poor Afghans; and they are absolutely justified. They are the citizens of the UK and have no reason to be obliged or thankful for the ambient level of social amenities available to every citizen.

Tony Blair represents the current GOVERNMENT in power in the UK - it is not the Bristish STATE. Tony Blair's policy is not neccessarily in the best interests of UK as a State. So every citizen has the right to oppose it.

Most British Jews wish to be burried in Israel (more than 20 booking offices in Golders Green, London) - and are first allegiance is to Israel as a Zionist idealogy. In the unlikely event of a war between UK and Israel, you will find most jews in the Israeli ranks.

By the same token most British Muslims cosnider themselves Mulsims first. The least they can do is to condemn and abhore slavish British support for the US.

The roots of what you call "Terrorism" lie in the injustice, imbalance and cruelty around the world. Unfortunately the Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya, Bosnia, Kashmir, Iraq - and now Afghanistan are always on the recieving end. Nobody has ever done attrocities agaist IRA sympathisers in Ireland, or the basque people. It is always the Muslims .... So it is natutral that 10% of the UK Muslims think WTC carnage was justified.

I personally condemn the WTC carnage and all other carnages.

Alouddin

01-07-2006, 08:52 AM

these discussions are beneficial for us, inshaAllah

Shogird

01-07-2006, 11:33 AM

these discussions are beneficial for us, inshaAllah

Allouddin with all respect to you as Moderator I had to say that this discussion is not beneficial to anyone. This thread is sabotage to bring anymosity between Christians and Muslims at this particular time. You know very well that statement "Muslim Hypocrisy" is direct insult to every Muslim. If you generalise than every Muslim becomes hypocrite. My Muslim grandmother was not hypocrite , she was sincere believer because she did not know anything else. She was first Muslima who won my respect and I will always respect her for her hard and exemplary life. So I ask you to remove this thread.

ДЖИГИТ

01-07-2006, 11:38 AM

As for 911 events, please visit www.reopen911.com (http://www.reopen911.com) you'll get many answers. Those statistics are nothing, just empty words.

Aziz

01-07-2006, 03:29 PM

do you know that the christians prayed at the Prophet's mousqe by the permission of the prophet himself???
whoever does stupid things does not represent the culture that he claims.
those who are in europe must respect their hosts because they are guests.
they have the freedom to express about what they think and to perform their religion in a proper way, and the europeans are free to do what they want in their countries unless it touches others freedom, religions and beliefs.

Pinkie

01-07-2006, 04:12 PM

Chijik (aka Freestyler):

If Muslims were not "tolerable" towards "European and Western values" then how come these countries have Muslim populations? If this was the case then I don't think you would see a single Muslim on the streets of New York, Los Angeles, London, Madrid or Moscow. If Muslims were not so tolerable towards others then how come under the rule of the Ottoman Empire Christians, Jews and Muslims were all living side by side in peace. If you don't agree with me look at the Balkin states...one day it was Yugoslavia and BOOM now look! Six different nations! Let's talk about England. If they are so "tolerable" how come there is the British National Party?

Iqbol

01-07-2006, 04:29 PM

If you do the same poll among christian or other religions' and civilization's members, you will get the same results. Not only muslims but other people were also against US's behaviour. So, you must be careful to make general conclusions from that kind of pools.
The results of the poll will always obey the intention of the poll-makers.

adagio

01-07-2006, 06:07 PM

so it was a pool!!!:lol:
in Statistics in order to realize a good, unbiased result one should give numbers of people interviewed, the particularities of samples, ages, social status, sex...

let me make an example

Go to the ghetto of Clichy -sous -bois, where famous french riots took place recently, ask 30 youngs ( about22-25) in the street, if they like Chirac or Sarkozy!! or go to the l'ENA ( the most prestigious school in France) and ask the same questions! u will get a quite different result:lol:

I can prepare anykind of pool result:P , just pay me the price;) !!!

Here goes a new result of a RECENT POOL.:P

Pakhtakor is the best team to participate on the behalf of Uzb in WC2006!!
(Sample= 1000 Tashkent fans, 11 Bukhara fans, 7 Sementchi fans. But usually i don't give the info about sample ,here just I love users so I decided to give the sample too).

So, this kind of pools are one of the usual craps that interst groups play, another concpiracy, another rubbish ...

infolife

01-07-2006, 06:08 PM

What was yr point again???

Who do you call cruel bastards? Terrorists? And Terrorists fighting against the UK and british muslims are by their side?
is that what you are trying to say?:rolleyes: :lol:

brother, we've discussed the issue of terrorism and Islam sooo much in this forum that I feel like sick going over the same thing.

And British Muslims support those terrorists yet they don't support the state that they get benefit from?:rolleyes: :lol:

U know how those British muslims benefitted the UK? They are mainly the immigrants of the War.If It was not their huge immigration after the Second World War who took all second-class jobs and brought their small businesses to the UK, The UK economy would not be as successful as it is now.

.

Some statistics from the Sunday Express (one of the most read newspapers in UK):

4(!) out of 10 British muslims said that Osama Bin Laden could be justified.

1 out of 10 British muslims said that the attacks on NewYork were totally justified.
--------------------------------

I think this statistics shows the hypocricy of the many among the British muslims. Of course nobody has a right to deny their freedom of speech, but are those muslims fair?!?!

The majority of those muslims are immigrants or descendants of them. They all have been benefiting from the democracy and tolerance from the native British people, they have been let into the UK with respect and hospitality, their rights being treated equally with christians and other non-muslims. Yet, very same muslims (well, not all of them, luckily, but there are a number, which is quite alarming to my point of view) support and justify Osama and the terrorists attacks - those cruel bastards who fight against the very system that the British muslims are benefitting now from.

Why is that when europeans travel to Islamic countries they always respect the rules of the country, many try to wear long skirts and cover their face and hair, not smoke and drink in public places etc.
And why is that when it comes to muslims emmigrating to Europe, they demand respect for their culture and faith but do not wish to abide by the european culture, and, what's worth, even cry out to condemn it?!?!

The question was asked to the local British on a street: "Should or should not the british muslims abide by the european culture?".
To my admiration, most of the respondents answered in a following manner:"No they don't have to, it should be left up to them".
The most "intolerant" answer I heard was:"Yes they should, but they don't have to necessarily quit their religion for the sake of it."
That's what I call real tolerance and freedom of faith!!! But, unfortunately, I haven't witnessed the reciprocal treatment towards non-muslims from muslims themselves. Is it because muslims think they are the elects of Allah and only they know what God really wants from them? ???

I wonder if the muslims in Islamic states would answer in a similar manner were they asked the same question about non-muslims wishing to live in their country?!?!?!?!
==========================
Keep it Fair!
Respectfully,
Chijik

Iqbol

01-07-2006, 06:11 PM

brother, we've discussed the issue of terrorism and Islam sooo much in this forum that I feel like sick going over the same thing.

Masheri Alouddinga ham tegishli :)

Akhee-Abdullah

01-07-2006, 07:18 PM

Shogird

01-07-2006, 07:31 PM

Guys this is a 5 year old post! I donnow where Alouddin dug it up : )

The "Chijik", "Freestyler" no longer visits the forum...over 3-4 years now...

Shogird- What a provocator : ) Keep playing...U fool only urself...

What are you talking about? If it is 5 year old post and it is here suddenly than someone purposefully brought up here in order to turn people into a mob.

The mob is man voluntarily descending to the nature of the beast.

R.W. Emerson

Akhee-Abdullah

01-07-2006, 09:54 PM

What are you talking about? If it is 5 year old post and it is here suddenly than someone purposefully brought up here in order to turn people into a mob.

Shogird (I wonder who ur Ustad is, do not tell me "he is not very Satan himself" )-

I said u r playing games to fool people here...

I tell u what, I will be honest if you are not getting my point.

I do not need to prove who u r in public. That aint necessary...and it is a complete waste of time...

I do not think u are a CHRISTIAN!!! But a Provocator!!! You have some hard feelings against strong muslim presence in this forum, it seems like because of that you decided to play an innocent Christian.

You remind me of pathetic Alex, or "shaldiragan" : ) Inkognito or her twin sibling : )... "Yurishing Qargha bulsa, Yemishing "b+q buladi" deb ketgan ekan, apandi mirza, har qalay rost gapga oxshaydi

May u be given a common sense. Please talk about ur own "Christianity" Burnizni suqmang iltimos, bizarni dinimizga, LAKUM DIYNIKUM WA LIYA DEEN,

(Muslim wa muslimalarning) dawramizdan chiqib koprilarga hamdard bulipsiz, topgan joyizdan turib sassiq sassiq qoghozga oralgan toshlarni otmang.

Please, do not teach us that "Islam and Christianity this and that" !

Please, mind ur business, and "Preach" your religion to Habib *****ov ( excuse me if I forgot ur last name : ), boy where in the Bible says "Jesus Loves You", could not find it nowhere ) also without trashing muslims!

Say Shahada or Shut Up.

Fershtein ya Zindiq?!

Towba "Ozbak kim unga nozvoy nima" degan ekan...Xristian Ozbek toghrisi...umuman oqshamaskan : ) Adasining oghli "Allahu Akbar" sunnat bulgan Musulmon, Madhabi Ibrahim Hanifiya buladi.

Guys in advance, accept my apologies, I cannot stand when some forumer comes and starts preaching moderator what to do or not to do...Simply email him or her and make clear ur complaint....why such a big fuss!!!

Ya Muslimeen Eid al Adha mubarak, insha'Allah it is on Tuesday Jan 10th. Call your local masjid for the prayer times, please if possible take the day off and enjoy ur holiday together with ur fella muslim brothers and sisters.

Wassalam.

Shogird

01-07-2006, 11:14 PM

Shogird (I wonder who ur Ustad is, do not tell me "he is not very Satan himself" )-

Little secret revealed: I call myself 'SHOGIRD' because my Ustoz is Jesus Himself.

I do not think u are a CHRISTIAN!!! But a Provocator!!! You have some hard feelings against strong muslim presence in this forum, it seems like because of that you decided to play an innocent Christian.
Correction : I may not fit to your definition of Christian but I am a Christian (With all bells and whistles) according to God's Word and I am not provocator.

You remind me of pathetic Alex, or "shaldiragan" : ) Inkognito or her twin sibling : )... "Yurishing Qargha bulsa, Yemishing "b+q buladi" deb ketgan ekan, apandi mirza, har qalay rost gapga oxshaydi

Question: Are you person who seek to please God or insult people whom He created?!

Please, mind ur business, and "Preach" your religion to Habib *****ov ( excuse me if I forgot ur last name : ),
I forgive your forgetfullness.

boy where in the Bible says "Jesus Loves You", could not find it nowhere ) also without trashing muslims!
Enlightenment: Does Jesus Love You? Read .

WE KNOW LOVE BY THIS, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. -Jn 3:16.

Ro 5:8-BUT GOD COMMENDETH HIS LOVE TOWARD US, IN THAT, WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, CHRIST DIED FOR US.

1 Jn 4:10, 11-HEREIN IS LOVE, NOT THAT WE LOVED GOD, BUT THAT HE LOVED US, AND SENT HIS SON TO BE THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS. BELOVED, IF GOD SO LOVED US, WE OUGHT ALSO TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Eph 5:2-AND WALK IN LOVE, AS CHRIST ALSO HATH LOVED US, AND HATH GIVEN HIMSELF FOR US AN OFFERING AND A SACRIFICE TO GOD FOR A SWEETSMELLING SAVOUR.

Eph 5:25-HUSBANDS, LOVE YOUR WIVES, EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT;

Gal 2:20-I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST: NEVERTHELESS I LIVE; YET NOT I, BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME: AND THE LIFE WHICH I NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, WHO LOVED ME, AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.

Jn 14:21-HE THAT (1) HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND (2) KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: AND HE THAT LOVETH ME SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.

Jn 14:23-JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, IF A MAN LOVE ME, HE WILL KEEP MY WORDS: AND MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM, AND WE WILL COME UNTO HIM, AND MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM.

Jn 15:13, 14-GREATER LOVE HATH NO MAN THAN THIS, THAT A MAN LAY DOWN HIS LIFE FOR HIS FRIENDS. YE ARE MY FRIENDS, IF YE DO WHATSOEVER I COMMAND YOU.

Jn 3:16-FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

Rev 1:5-AND FROM JESUS CHRIST, WHO IS THE FAITHFUL WITNESS, AND THE FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD, AND THE PRINCE OF THE KINGS OF THE EARTH. UNTO HIM THAT LOVED US, AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD.

Ro 5:5-AND HOPE MAKETH NOT ASHAMED; BECAUSE THE LOVE OF GOD IS SHED ABROAD IN OUR HEARTS BY THE HOLY GHOST WHICH IS GIVEN UNTO US.

Akhee-Abdullah

01-07-2006, 11:25 PM

Assalam alaikum Ahli Muslimon,

Qiziq bir fikr hayolimdan otdi...Yak fikri jolib ba xiyolam omad...

Agar Ozbek/Tojik farzandi Islom dinidan chiqsa, wa Nasroniylikni qabul etsa Toshkentda yoki boshqa shaharlarimizda ortoqlari orasida qanaqa qa'bul qilinadi? U kishi xuddi millatini sotgan, mal'un sotqinga oxshab qolmaydimi?

Ya'ni Ozbek/Tojikni Ozbek/Tojik qiladigan Islom dini emasmi. Qarib qartayib qolgan ateist professorlarimizam bir oyoghi yerda wa bir oyoghi gorda bolib qolgan dawrlarida, shahodat qilib namoz qilishadiku, hech bulmasa Janaza namozlarini ado etib turadilarku, yoku hich bulmasam quliga tasbih olib, mahsi kiyib yuradilarku. Yo alhazar Muslimon bulmasdan Ozbek/Tojik bulib bularmikan??? Aslo mumkin emasdir...

Abdulla Qodiriyniyning Otabeki Muslimon bulgani olaroq Ozbekning asl Oghlonlari wa Kumushlari Nasroniy bulishlari ham mumkin emas, aqilga sighmaydi wa hazm qilib bulinmaydi...Nasroniy bulib ketgandan ularning kora ota onalari "Kopir Ateist bulib olganing maqulroq" deyishsa ajab emas..."hich bulmaganda oila azolaringa isnod keltirmading" degan qawilda ma'nosida....wallahu a'lam...

Shubhasiz, Islom dinidan kechgan odam Ozbeklikdan kechibdi. Har Ozbek muslimondir, ammo har Muslimon Ozbek emas. Islomdan boshqa dinga kirgan kishi Ozbek emasdir. Wallahu a'lam.

Kasiki az Islom dastkashida boshad misli inki nasabi Tojiki xudro az dast dodaast. Ya'ni har Tojik musurmon meboshad wa lekin har musurmon Tojik nest. Xullasi kalom, kasiki az Islom baroyat Tojik nest. Tojik ro Tojik karda, Ozbak ro Ozbak kardagi Islom ast.

Shogird

01-07-2006, 11:37 PM

Assalam alaikum Ahli Muslimon,

Shubhasiz, Islom dinidan kechgan odam Ozbeklikdan kechibdi. Har Ozbek muslimondir, ammo har Muslimon Ozbek emas.

Gapingning tagida asos yo'q. Men Ozbekligimdan faxrlanaman va Iso Masihning izdoshi bo'lganimdan ham faxrlanaman. Men provakatorlikda ayblama, o'zing provakatorlik qilib yuribsanku. Mening senga maslahatim: Agar dinu-diyonatingni dun'yoga ko'rsatmoqchi bo'lsang yahshi amallaring bilan ko'rsat. Bu erda do'q-po'pisaning hojati yo'q do'stim. Biz o'rta asrda emas 21 asrda yashayatoganligimizni ham unutma.

Bayraming bilan yana bir bor.

HAKIKAT

01-08-2006, 11:04 AM

...Biz o'rta asrda emas 21 asrda yashayatoganligimizni ham unutma.
Yep Shogird, we're living unfortunately in that century where immoralities such as sexual perversions, drug addiction and so many wars in which innocent people are killed every day like in Iraq and Palastine...

If I had such an opportunity to request Our Merciful Allah, let me live in another centuries: I would do that!

But The Great Allah wished that I live in this century and everything He wishes is Good for me.

And now coming to you Shogird, it's a fact that you're not wellcome here; not because you're a christian but firstly what this christian world did/ and still does to muslims in these 20th & 21th centuries.

You've made a note to brother Akhee-Abdullah not to make any warnings and critics and so on... But when we look to this world where we live together we see that Islam is not explained in that ProWestern Media in which it actually must be!!!

Today there was a program on BBC concerning the political situation of Israel and Palastine in the future. One tel.caller made this AS guilty for those massacres of Sabra and Shatilla (took place in 1982)

And now be ready for the answer of that Prof.in Studio on those massacres: "Those attacks on innocent civilians in these refugee camps were carried out by Lebanon's Christian Phalangist groups and Mr.Sharon has nothing to do with that."

(Well, actually every child in the Middle East knows that this "Butcher of Lebanon" had his signature in this massacre by supporting those christians)

Anyway, this is only one example from many massacres in which your christian world keep his eyes closed:(

Conclusion: As long as Islam will be attacked (by war, media etc.) you will always be counter-striked as well!!!

infolife

01-08-2006, 11:18 AM

Assalamu alaykum my brother,
A piece of tip if you don't mind: I admire what you do here as protecting the religion of ALLAH swta and making HIS word supreme in this forum. May Allah swta grant you peace and place in Jannah, AMIN.
However, your way of speaking to non-muslims and yr attitude towards them is not one of the characteristics of Muslims. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I've said it before as well, n wanna say again,
Muslim brothers n sisters r often to aggressive and defensive and always end up offending others in this forum.

The messenger of Allah has said in lots of hadith about the characteristic attitude of muslims towards non-muslims and he himself was never harsh or rude towards Jewish or hypocrites, although he knew their aims and attitude towards him.

Be gentle, show respect, show generocity and kindness, solidarity and all the best qualities so that you stand out among sons of Adam as MUSLIM so that they admire you and want to follow you.

Dear Shogird, can I ask you if you don't mind: what is that thing that led you to convert TO CHRISTIANITY?:rolleyes: :(
Have you ever practised Islam as well? N what's that you were not satisfied when u practised Islam?

InshaAllah, we'll try to answer the points you were not satisfied about the last religion of GOD so that you'll get better understanding of it and become one of the brothers, inshaAllah!!!

May Allah guide us all to what is right, AMIN.

Shogird (I wonder who ur Ustad is, do not tell me "he is not very Satan himself" )-

I said u r playing games to fool people here...

I tell u what, I will be honest if you are not getting my point.

I do not need to prove who u r in public. That aint necessary...and it is a complete waste of time...

I do not think u are a CHRISTIAN!!! But a Provocator!!! You have some hard feelings against strong muslim presence in this forum, it seems like because of that you decided to play an innocent Christian.

You remind me of pathetic Alex, or "shaldiragan" : ) Inkognito or her twin sibling : )... "Yurishing Qargha bulsa, Yemishing "b+q buladi" deb ketgan ekan, apandi mirza, har qalay rost gapga oxshaydi

May u be given a common sense. Please talk about ur own "Christianity" Burnizni suqmang iltimos, bizarni dinimizga, LAKUM DIYNIKUM WA LIYA DEEN,

(Muslim wa muslimalarning) dawramizdan chiqib koprilarga hamdard bulipsiz, topgan joyizdan turib sassiq sassiq qoghozga oralgan toshlarni otmang.

Please, do not teach us that "Islam and Christianity this and that" !

Please, mind ur business, and "Preach" your religion to Habib *****ov ( excuse me if I forgot ur last name : ), boy where in the Bible says "Jesus Loves You", could not find it nowhere ) also without trashing muslims!

Say Shahada or Shut Up.

Fershtein ya Zindiq?!

Towba "Ozbak kim unga nozvoy nima" degan ekan...Xristian Ozbek toghrisi...umuman oqshamaskan : ) Adasining oghli "Allahu Akbar" sunnat bulgan Musulmon, Madhabi Ibrahim Hanifiya buladi.

Guys in advance, accept my apologies, I cannot stand when some forumer comes and starts preaching moderator what to do or not to do...Simply email him or her and make clear ur complaint....why such a big fuss!!!

Ya Muslimeen Eid al Adha mubarak, insha'Allah it is on Tuesday Jan 10th. Call your local masjid for the prayer times, please if possible take the day off and enjoy ur holiday together with ur fella muslim brothers and sisters.

Wassalam.

Akhee-Abdullah

01-08-2006, 11:54 AM

To the Worshipper, Enemy of Jesus and the follower of Saul from the worshipper of Elohim and the Follower of Jesus (sal'Allahu alayhi wassalam):

Excuse me, did you write in English? Was Bible revealed in English?

Jesus never spoke English : ) Have you ever read the Bible in the language of Yeshua (Jesus) ? I doubt you have, and I doubt you have ever held it in your life time : ) My point is you are referring not to the Bible, but made up stories against him (alayhissalati wassalam) We will excuse your ignorance & start tackling your arguments from your own made up stories first.

From your own book:

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, "Shmah Yisrael, Adonay Ilohaynu Adonay Ihad " - Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord. Mar 12:29

And similar verse is found in the translation of the meaning of Dr. al-Hilali and Dr. Muhisn Khan of the Noble Quraan:

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah ['Iesa (jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." (Al-Ma'idah 5:72)

When I first read this, I knew for sure that during the 1st Council of Nicea in 325 AC, some of you guys have screwed up original teachings of Jesus (May Allah have mercy on him) and made blasphemy in God the creed and dogma of your religion. Did not you guys know for 3 centuries who Yeshua was? And finally you guys decided to get together to determine who Yeshua is? Man? God? or Man-God?

At His temptation Jesus answered the devil with these final words.
Pray God they may become our words as well.

"Get thee behind me Satan,
It is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord your God,
And Him only shalt thou serve. -Mat.4:10

How come if Yeshua was God he was tempted by Satan? What a blasphemous statements you Christians brought up against the holy prophet of Elohem, Yeshua Masheh!!! May Elohem curse the christians!!!

And finally:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:5

This verse from the Bible has proven the fact that Yeshua was a man, and there was no need for the 1st and 2nd Councils of Nicea.

I say, Jesus was a prophet of Elhim and followed the religion of his (alayhissalati wassalam) forefather Ebrahem (alayhissalati wassalam), Islaam.

And this (submission to Allâh, Islâm) was enjoined by Ibrâhim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya'qûb (Jacob), (saying), "O my sons! Allâh has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islâm (as muslims - Islâmic Monotheism)." (Al-Baqarah 2:132)

Disciples of Yeshua and earlier Prophets were muslims as well, here is the proof:

Then when 'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allâh's Cause?" Al-Hawâriûn (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allâh; we believe in Allâh, and bear witness that we are muslims (i.e. we submit to Allâh)." (Aali Imran 3:52)

And when I (Allâh) put in the hearts of Al-Hawârîeen (the disciples) [of 'Iesa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are muslims." (Al-Ma'idah 5:111

And Mûsa (Moses) said: "O my people! If you have believed in Allâh, then put your trust in Him if you are muslims (those who submit to Allâh's Will)." (Yunus 10:84)

I will end this discussion with:

Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (jesus)] being a slave of Allâh, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad SAW) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allâh upon those who lie." (Aali Imran 3:61)

Akhee-Abdullah

01-09-2006, 12:02 PM

Shogird

01-11-2006, 10:40 PM

To the Worshipper, Enemy of Jesus and the follower of Saul from the worshipper of Elohim and the Follower of Jesus (sal'Allahu alayhi wassalam):

Akhe, did you call yourself as "follower of Jesus"? Do you know what does it mean? You don't follow two or more leaders you follow only one leader. You are follower of Prophet Muhammad not Jesus. You recognize Jesus as prophet only. If you follow Him you will do what He says. If you want to follow Jesus you need to repent from your sin and accept Jesus as your Saviour. You need to be baptised in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I know you can't do that, it sounds strange to you with your preconceived ideas.

Excuse me, did you write in English? Was Bible revealed in English?

Jesus never spoke English : ) Have you ever read the Bible in the language of Yeshua (Jesus) ? I doubt you have, and I doubt you have ever held it in your life time : ) My point is you are referring not to the Bible, but made up stories against him (alayhissalati wassalam) We will excuse your ignorance & start tackling your arguments from your own made up stories first. Bible is collection of inspired works. It is divided to Old Testament and New Testament. Old Testament (Tora, Zabur and other books) are originally written in Hebrew and Arameic. New Testament (4 Gospels: books about life and ministry of Jesus Crist, Book of Acts: The ministry of early disciples and christian church; Epistles of Paul, James, Peter, John,Jude) these works are written in common Greek , the language which was widespread in Palestine. Read it here: http://www.answers.com/topic/aramaic-of-jesus

When I first read this, I knew for sure that during the 1st Council of Nicea in 325 AC, some of you guys have screwed up original teachings of Jesus (May Allah have mercy on him) and made blasphemy in God the creed and dogma of your religion. Did not you guys know for 3 centuries who Yeshua was? And finally you guys decided to get together to determine who Yeshua is? Man? God? or Man-God?
You need to do some research before blaming people in blasphemy. We know and believe in Yeshua. For some it was problem to know HIs nature and position toward Heavenly Father. First Nicean Council was about contorversy about the Nature of God and Jesus. There were always people who misunderstood the Bible and come up with their own opinions. But our standard is Word of God, Bible. All our doctrines comes from Word of God. Any doctrine,religious teaching and revelation should be confirmed by the word of God.

How come if Yeshua was God he was tempted by Satan? What a blasphemous statements you Christians brought up against the holy prophet of Elohem, Yeshua Masheh!!! May Elohem curse the christians!!! Yeshua was tempted by Satan this is Biblical event. Yeshua was preexistent before His birth, He was pre-existent with Father always. He was there when universe were created. He was Word of God, Logos. Word of God became human and dwellt among us and we see the glory of God in Him. He was the perfect representation of God. Even though he had divine nature Jesus became like a humble servant. After water baptism Yeshua was led by Holy Spirit to desert where He was tempted or tried by Satan. Jesus withstand all the trials. You can read it here about those temptations. (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+4&version=49)

This verse from the Bible has proven the fact that Yeshua was a man, and there was no need for the 1st and 2nd Councils of Nicea.
Akhee, it seems to me you have not read the Bible for yourself. First read the Bible and we'll talk about later. If you want to know the official position of Council of Nicea than read their Niceane Creed (http://www.mit.edu/%7Etb/anglican/intro/lr-nicene-creed.html) here. As it is written in the Bible they believed in the humanity of Jesus.
Quote from Nicean creed:We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. Jesus was Son of Man by birth and Son of God by origin.

I say, Jesus was a prophet of Elhim and followed the religion of his (alayhissalati wassalam) forefather Ebrahem (alayhissalati wassalam), Islaam.
Jesus was greater than Abraham. Read what Jesus says :
John 8:51-59
Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death."

The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.'

Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?"

Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';

and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

Disciples of Yeshua and earlier Prophets were muslims as well, here is the proof:
What do you mean by "they were muslims"? If you mean Muslim is to be Monotheist than not only Jewish and Christians but also other monotheist cults should be considered as Muslims. But according to Islamic SHahada to be Muslim you need to acknowledge Allah and acknowledge Muhammad as his prophet. Hebrew prophets, Jesus or His disciples have never acknowledge Muhammad as prophet in their time.

Pinkie

01-11-2006, 11:59 PM

What do you mean by "they were muslims"? If you mean Muslim is to be Monotheist than not only Jewish and Christians but also other monotheist cults should be considered as Muslims. But according to Islamic SHahada to be Muslim you need to acknowledge Allah and acknowledge Muhammad as his prophet. Hebrew prophets, Jesus or His disciples have never acknowledge Muhammad as prophet in their time.
Aha, they were Muslims. The word Muslim means someone who has submitted themselves to Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala. Who did the Prophets and disciples of Isa (alayhis salam) submit to?

Akhee-Abdullah

01-12-2006, 06:34 AM

Ya Mushrik/Polytheist -

I m glad to see you replied after 3-4 days of silence : ) However, you have not answered to my questions. You were extremely evasive : )

I doubt you will ever be able to, unless you become Muslim one day and truly follow Yeshuah Masheh (alayhissalati wassalam).

A bunch of questions that were posed "was the straw that broke the camel's back" so it did break your hard drive fella, your brain starts malfunctioning once you see something contradicting your creed in your very made up Bible.

Elohim/YHW revealed to Yeshua Masheh - Evangelie-The Glad Tidings-That's the book Muslims believe in, not the one chronicles of made up stories that you guys refer to as Bible.

Please stay on the topic and answer to my questions if you are truthful, if you cannot admit that you were wrong and Yeshua Masheh is the Prophet of Eli.

Wishing you the guidance,

The Ardent Follower of Yeshua Masheh.

May Elohim bless and praise Yeshua Masheh.

HAKIKAT

01-12-2006, 03:34 PM

What do you mean by "they were muslims"?
Listen Shogird, we moslems mean the followings:

… The Messiah, 'Isa, son of Maryam, was only the Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He cast into Maryam, and a Spirit from Him…
(Surat an-Nisa: 171)

Our Jesus (Isa as) is a Moslem like any other Messangers of the Allmighty Allah, and Jesus (as) was sent to the Tribe of Israel with some messages like:
I come confirming the Torah I find already there, and to make lawful for you some of what was previously forbidden to you. I have brought you a sign from your Lord. So have fear of Allah and obey me.
(Surah Al 'Imran: 50)

In another Vers The Most High Allah informs us moslems as follows:
And we sent 'Isa son of Maryam following in their footsteps, confirming the Torah that came before him. We gave him the Injil containing guidance and light, confirming the Torah that came before it, and as guidance and admonition for those who have fear."
(Surat al-Ma'idah: 46)

And when 'Isa came with the Clear Signs, he said, "I have come to you with Wisdom and to clarify for you some of the things about which you have differed. Therefore have taqwa of (heed) Allah and obey me. Allah is my Lord and your Lord so worship Him. This is a straight path." The various factions among them differed. Woe then to those who did wrong on account of the punishment of a painful Day!
(Surat az-Zukhruf: 63-65)

As the angels brought the good news about Jesus'(as) Birth they told:
"Maryam, your Lord gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, 'Isa, son of Maryam of high esteem in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near.
(Surah Al 'Imran: 45)

Shogird, and we moslems believe in Jesus' miracles like in this vers:
… As a Messenger to the tribe of Israel, saying: "I have brought you a Sign from your Lord. I will create the shape of a bird out of a clay for you and then breathe into it and it will be a bird by Allah's permission. I will heal the blind and the leper, and bring the dead to life, by Allah's permission. I will tell you what you eat and what you store up in your homes. There is a Sign for you in that if you are believers.
(Surah Al 'Imran: 49)

Shogird, you should and must know that:
Allah gave him his name before his birth, as He did with Yahya (John) (as). Allah gave him the name the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Maryam. This is one of the most explicit indications that Jesus (as) was created differently from other people.

These are only some of the verses concerning Jesus(as) from the Holy Koran...

And Shogird, please stop asking such unlogical questions regarding our Jesus(as), the Prophet and Messanger of the only ONE ALLAH!

You should have already learnt how to comunicate with a moslem on Jesus (as) matter. That system you're using here is NOT ACCEPTABLE at all!