Ahmadinejad at Columbia University [Archive] - Uzbekistan Online Forum - Онлайн Форум Узбекистана

Musofirbek

09-25-2007, 05:28 AM

Ахмадинежада шокировал прием в университете
Время публикации: Сегодня в 09:17 по Джохару

Президент Ирана Махмуд Ахмадинежад выступил перед аудиторией в Колумбийском университете в США. Он опять затронув тему мифа о холокосте, сказав —
«Почему палестинским людям приходится платить за то, к чему они никакого отношения не имели?».
«Вы либо нахально дерзки, либо удивительно необразованны», — наголо заявил в ответ иранскому президенту ректор университета Ли Болинджер.
И беспардонно потребовал от президента Ирана «прекратить это безобразие».
В ответ на вопрос, «хочет ли Иран уничтожить Израиль», Ахмадинежад заявил — «Мы любим все нации. Мы — друзья евреям, в Иране живет много евреев, они живут в мире и безопасности».
Между тем ректор университета вел себя непристойно и откровенно безобразно, постоянно грубил и оскорблял Ахамнежеда. Представляя президента Ирана аудитории, ректор заявил:
«Мистер президент, вы обнаруживаете все признаки мелкого беспощадного диктатора. Когда вы приходите в такие места, вы выгладите нелепым. Правда в том, что холокост — самое задокументированное событие в истории».
Такое представление Ахмадинежад назвал оскорблением, затуманившим непредубежденность аудитории, добавив, что такого не могло бы произойти в Иране.
Укажем в этой связи, что несмотря на то, что миф о холокосте является якобы «самым задокументированным событием в истории», любого человека на западе, пытающегося это событие изучить сажают в тюрьму по обвинению в «неверие в холокост», что выглядит более нелепо, чем появление Ахмадинежада в Колумбийском университете.

Бога отрицать можно — «холокост» нельзя.

Напомним, что в столице Ирана Тегеране 11–12 декабря 2006 года прошла международная конференция по «холокосту». Конференция «Исследование холокоста, международный взгляд», была организована МИД Ирана и проводилась в Институте международных и политических исследований (ИМПИ) иранского внешнеполитического ведомства.
Решение о проведении мероприятия было принято после того, как президент Исламской Республики Махмуд Ахмадинежад поставил под сомнение утверждение сионистской пропаганды о массовом истреблении евреев в годы Второй мировой войны.
Иранский президент в публичных выступлениях, называя холокост «мифом», предлагал странам, ощущающим вину за гибель евреев, предоставить часть своей территории для еврейского государства и прекратить таким образом оккупацию Палестины и убийством палестинского народа.
На форум поступило около ста статей на тему «холокоста» из 30 стран, в том числе из Великобритании, США, Канады, Австрии, Франции, Дании, Италии, Австралии, Германии, Швеции, Венгрии, России, Украины, Японии, Хорватии, Индии, Алжира, Бахрейна, Иордании, Туниса, Египта, Палестины, Бельгии, Таджикистана, Кении, Сирии и Ирана.

В конференции приняли участие несколько сот делегатов и около 70 иностранных экспертов, но присутствие некоторых зарубежных представителей, пожелавших принять участие в мероприятии, по сообщению пресс-службы ИМПИ, «к сожалению, стало невозможным», так как они «по причине своих взглядов на холокост находятся в тюрьме».
Одним из участников конференции стал Дэвид Дьюк, американский ученый, который заявил, что «тот факт, что нельзя свободно обсуждать холокост, позволяет израильтянам скрывать преступления против палестинского народа».
В конференции принял участие писатель Жорж Тиль, осужденный на родине за то, что поставил под сомнение миф о «холокосте», который он назвал огромной ложью.
«Евреев преследовали, но никакой машины для убийства нацисты не создавали, в газовых камерах никого не убивали», - утверждает Тиль.
В Тегеран приехали также представители британской еврейской общины. Раввин Ааарон Коэн заявил, что факт «холокоста» не подлежит сомнению, но и не может служить оправданием для «израильских преступлений против палестинцев».
В конференции приняла участие делегация раввинов из движения «Нетурей Карта» (США), считающих, что «холокост» является результатом деятельности сионистов, которые и сейчас продолжают использовать его для мотивации преступлений против палестинского народа.
Сионисты публично угрожали участникам международной научной конференции расправой. Эти угрозы были исполнены. Многие участники конференции из числа евреев и раввинов были избиты, на некоторых покушались.
Сионистское руководство было крайне встревожено проведением научной конференции в Тегеране, так как на этот раз мифу о «холокосте» угрожало не просто очередное разоблачение ученных одиночек, которые подвергаются смертельной опасности за неверие в «холокост». На этот раз разоблачение было осуществлено авторитетом государства и внушительного международного научного исследования.

КЦ (http://http://kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2007/09/25/53258.shtml)

PainKiller

09-25-2007, 06:23 AM

I just finished watching the visit of Mahmud Ahmedinejad at Columbia University. The President of the University, Mr. Bollinger started up the event with quite an insulting, and cold welcome. Ahmedinejad appeared to be wearing a poorly tailored suit and was answering to some very straight and bold questions by dancing around, which I somehow understand. He had to give wide answers instead of short ones, to explain himself, and why he is standing at that point of view. Mr.Bollinger even demanded once that the better answer to the question would be yes or no, and Ahmedinejad told him that if it is an open discussion, he should be given a chance to answer the question the way he thinks is right, instead of telling him to answer by giving out answers they expect him to give.
His answer regarding the excecution of homosexuals in Iran was very bizarre. This guy is in denial period. He made a good point when he was asked why Iran won't stop Iran's nuclear program. He said, US has the 5th generation of bombs already made and had it tested. So in what position are they to tell us to stop our nuclear program for peaceful needs?
And student burst with laughter when he said, thanks for inviting me to Columbia, I heard a lot of US politicians are trained here. LOL.:lol:
Anyways, he did not make any new, shocking comments or statements as some might've been expecting. He should check his gay data next time though.

Delf

09-25-2007, 08:52 AM

It is amazing how strong the notion of Holocaust is. In the West you can deny anything, be it God, faith, or any historical event other than Holocaust. Anti-semite and Holocaust-denier are probably the worst things one can be called, and it is usually used against those who express the slightest doubt about the Holocaust, or do not show enough support to Israel.

You can doubt anything you want. But there are some established facts. The fact that earth rotates around the sun, for example. Or the fact that millions of people have died in concentration camps of Germany during WWII.

Also, for jewish, Holocaust is personal. Imagine your mother and father were murdered by someone, but some people question that fact and say that maybe it did not happen. For many jewish, their parents, sisters and brothers have died in those conc. camps. They were specifically targeted because they happen to be born jewish.

On the other hand, estabslishment of a states for jewish (judaic) in the middle of arab (muslim) world was a BIG mistake. Israel could've been established elsewhere, better where it would not have territorial problems with neighbours. But it was established and has 10 million people living in it. You cannot deport or kill them. You have to face the fact that they are there to stay.

But anyways, today the problem is racial segregation of arabs (muslims) in Israel as well as military occupation (bundled with colonization) of Palestine. But since both sides are arguing from religious absolutism positions and are unable to rationally devise a strategy to peacefully resolve the conflict (ex. Ghandi, MLK, Mandela), the turmoil will continue indefinitely.

Unfortunately, there will not be a Mandela or Ghandi for Palestine any time soon. There will be plenty of clerics and young jihadists, but that will only worsen the problem. Last 50 years of conflict is an illustrative proof of that.

Delf.

Delf

09-25-2007, 08:59 AM

Columbia U. missed a unique chance to grill President of Iran about problems Iran is experiencing. No local media of Iran is able to ask candid questions about problems of the country, be that economy, azeri separatists, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, banning of certain political blogs etc. I would personally pepper him with those questions :).

On the other hand, internationally, Iran is in a good position, except for aiding Hezbollah which is in war with Israel.

Delf.

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 09:38 AM

Abu-Hafiza

09-25-2007, 09:44 AM

Holocaust is not about the West or the East, it's not even about Israel, it's not about what you think about it, it's about human tragedy and may it have happened to any other nation than Jews, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion as no one would doubt the fact of massacre and humiliation of huge mass of people merely because of their ethnical identity.
Yes, noone is denying the tragedy. But who can deny that holocoust is used today to justify even worse tragedy of palestinian-israeli conflict? And why, because of the past genoside jewish nationals should be untouchable? I mean you can critisize anyone and anything these days BUT any of the jews, even if your critique is limited to the ACTION OF THE PERSON, you are bound to be announced as antisemitist

UzLand

09-25-2007, 09:51 AM

You can doubt anything you want. But there are some established facts. The fact that earth rotates around the sun, for example. Or the fact that millions of people have died in concentration camps of Germany during WWII.

Delf, when was this fact established? I am sure before that for thousands of years people thought differently. Before the existence of God was a fact, but somehow people can deny that, but not the Holocaust. Columbia U.' president sucked. He started well, but then began selling USG information for fact. Iraq was believed to have had WMD at one time, if you remember. The university president talked about imprisoned American-Iranian scholars but said nothing about imprisoned historians in Europe who questioned the Holocaust. How come you don't demand their release, but advocate gays' in Iran?

I agree with PainKiller, Ahmadinejad's answer regarding gays was lame. He should have said that Iran is an Islamic state operating based on sharia and according to sharia, homosexuality is a sin and if you try to question the Quran, you are insulting far more people than those who believe in the Holocaust. He should also said that there are certain values and culture in Iran, laws and homosexuality is a crime. Just like there are all kinds of laws in US and Europe. "Does that mean the world should adopt American law and values as universal and who said they are the best ones?" Ahmadinejad should have said.

zanjir

09-25-2007, 09:55 AM

On the other hand, internationally, Iran is in a good position, except for aiding Hezbollah which is in war with Israel.

Delf.

I was going to take some courses from that school but now I changed my mind:(
Iran is strong country, if they aided Hezbollah good for them, actually you should aid them too.
hezbollah also legal political party of lebanon. israel is number one on high military equipped country in mid east, and whom they got those weapons from? Oh, who "aided" them? strange ha?

melo

09-25-2007, 09:56 AM

I don't understand the point of the whole thing. It was a complete waste of time. Why invite someone to speak that you are just going to ridicule (even in the opening comments)? Instead we have to listen to people talk about what they think is going on in the world. And now I have to listen to the US media talk about this crap like it was some important event. :rolleyes:

SAMARKANDI!

09-25-2007, 10:04 AM

Good job Ahmadinejad, strong and smart man. He did excellent job.

melo

09-25-2007, 10:08 AM

Good job Ahmadinejad, strong and smart man. He did excellent job.

I always just thought of him as the George Bush of Iran. Ultra-conservative, politically scary, likes to be on TV all the time, seems to have no interest in his own nation at all, always talking about social issues that have nothing to do with him etc, etc. :?

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 10:16 AM

Yes, noone is denying the tragedy. But who can deny that holocoust is used today to justify even worse tragedy of palestinian-israeli conflict? And why, because of the past genoside jewish nationals should be untouchable? I mean you can critisize anyone and anything these days BUT any of the jews, even if your critique is limited to the ACTION OF THE PERSON, you are bound to be announced as antisemitist

Well, apparently, there are those who deny/cast doubt about the Holocaust. However, I see your point -- when ex-president Jimmy Carter presented his book calling for withdrawal of Israel's military forces from occupied Palestinian territory (occupied after the 6-day war) and demolition of Jewish settlements, he was called anti-Semite -- though, I personally believe that it is indeed the only way to resolve this conflict. The problem is that after the Holocaust, as a result of a collective guilt the West felt for the Holocaust, Jews have been, to put it mildly, positively discriminated and as you put it, there has been no way to critisize the Jews.

However, I think you are wrong saying that today the situation is unchanged -- I think the world is realizing that the Holocaust was a tragedy, but that it should not be a source of another human tragedy, namely for Palestinians. Bush administration has called for a second time in the US history for establishment of independent Palestinian state, the public perception in the US is also changing. I think the recent publication of Israel Lobby in the US where the authors condemn the huge influence of the Israeli lobbyists is quite a step forward to regarding Israelis as equal counterparts who are equally responsible for preserving peace in the Middle East.

The problem is that the Arab world or propalestinian forces are employing bad PR techniques. They are not being able to use the raising sympathy to Arabs to their benifits and I think this is something Arabs should reconsider in their efforts to get back their lands. Anyway, I am not a huge Middle East expert, but I think it is time for Arabs to use the momentum. Arabs should be more pragmatic and less inclined on ideological aspects of the war. At the end of the day, it's not a war of cultures or identities -- it's about the land, so pragmatism is something Palestinians and their supporters should add to their arsenal.

SAMARKANDI!

09-25-2007, 10:17 AM

I always just thought of him as the George Bush of Iran. Ultra-conservative, politically scary, likes to be on TV all the time, seems to have no interest in his own nation at all, always talking about social issues that have nothing to do with him etc, etc. :?

Of course you are an American you are meant to think this way. your media and Gov took care of it already :)

Comparing G. Bush with Ahmadinejad is the wierdest thing I have seen in your posts so far.

melo

09-25-2007, 10:22 AM

Of course you are an American you are meant to think this way. your media and Gov took care of it already :)

Comparing G. Bush with Ahmadinejad is the wierdest thing I have seen in your posts so far.

You seriously don't see any similarities? :shock: Please be specific about what was wrong with my ideas instead of assuming you understand me.

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 10:26 AM

You seriously don't see any similarities? :shock:

The thing they both share is that they both suck. That what makes them quite similar.

SAMARKANDI!

09-25-2007, 10:33 AM

You seriously don't see any similarities? :shock:

Hey, if you are seeking similarities, I can find so many similarities between you and your president, you would be surprised. :D

Bush is sick, mentally sick and i mean it. Ahmedinejad, though not an angel, is smart and brave man, I admire him, although shiah and has his own interests in the region, he did many useful efforts than any currupt Sunni-rich-arab leaders in middle east (has at least courage to speak out). Man uses his own brain, not his fathers or others.

melo

09-25-2007, 10:38 AM

Hey, if you are seeking similarities, I can find so many similarities between you and your president, you would be surprised. :D

Bush is sick, mentally sick and i mean it. Ahmedinejad, though not an angel, is smart and brave man, I admire him, although shiah and has his own interests in the region, he did many useful efforts than any currupt Sunni-rich-arab leaders in middle east. Man uses his own brain, not his fathers or others.

Ok so you basically ignored all my points about their similarities. Your analysis of George Bush is classic president of Columbia stuff. :rolleyes: And then how exactly am I like George Bush?

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 10:44 AM

Hey, if you are seeking similarities, I can find so many similarities between you and your president, you would be surprised. :D

Bush is sick, mentally sick and i mean it. Ahmedinejad, though not an angel, is smart and brave man, I admire him, although shiah and has his own interests in the region, he did so much useful than any currupt Sunni-rich-arab leaders in middle east. Man uses his own brain, not his fathers or others.

Wow, are you Bush's personal shrink? Just checking if you are a reliable source to make statements about Lil Bush's mental health.

Ahmadinejad is a "brave" and "smart" man who somewhy (probably due to mental eclipse) fails to use all his brains and smartness to provide his country -- which happens to be a big producer of crude oil --with gas and therefore, had to introduce gas rationing. Right, that takes brains...

SAMARKANDI!

09-25-2007, 10:47 AM

Ok so you basically ignored all my points about their similarities. Your analysis of George Bush is classic president of Columbia stuff. :rolleyes: And then how exactly am I like George Bush?

I didnt ignore anything, if you want to find out why exactly i think this way, pls feel free to check on the guy more, from a different angle. you already know my opinion, it is clear, i dont think he is like Bush at all. I dont think he is all good as well, I admire him as I admire some of Hitler's actions, but it doesnt mean I love the person. He did excellent job by coming and confronting his opponents/counter idealists. I admire some of his actions in middle east. I dont want to go specific in everything, i simply dont have time :)

p.s. I wish i had time to post more :) i am sitting in my cost accounting class right now, sorry :)

p.p.s It is not in his only power to change his country's economical status, there is too much pressure from outside, he rules the area where more than 20 % of world's oil passes through, to take full control of the region and redistribute the wealth properly is a death sentence to him and his people. He could have done more, it is true but still he is already doing things i.e. trying to get his "nuclear power plants" to balance the powers somehow.

Vezunchik

09-25-2007, 12:26 PM

U kajdogo politika est svoya platforma, bazis na osnove kotorogo on "poyavilsya/rodilsya". I oni obi`chno eta derjat dolgo (isklyuchenie, kogda oni prevrashayutsya v Tirana/Diktatora). Tipa: sotsialisti`, kommunisti`, liberali`, konservatori`...

Ahmednijad poyavilsya kak prostoy, Derzkiy, naivni`y sredniy iranets, kotori`y simvoliziroval Feniksa dlya irantsev. On simvoliziroval Spravedlivost (smes Sotsializma i Liberalizma). Narodu eta ponravilos. On pokazalsya lutshim variantom mejdu konservatorami i liberalami. Vot on derjit etu marku- Naivnost, Derzost, Spravedlivost, Prostota i Patriotizm.
On za etoy shirmoy mojet skri`t vse ekonomicheskie -sotsialni`e problemi`.

U Irana ne bi`lo drugogo vi`hoda. Ili poklonitsya, kak drugie arabi` ili Saddam (v kontse vsyotaki on pustil MAGATE) k US (v rezultate chego vsyo ravno US napal bi` v iran) ili Derzko vesti sebya, i idti na Taran protiv US, kak seychas. Tolko v etom sluchayii u nego hotyabi` shans poyavlyayetsya vi`jit. Zato irantsi` sohranili hot kakoyto Patriotizm, no tsena - bednost i gredishie ekonomicheskie problemi`.

ON:

yevreyi pod Holokostom skri`vayut ves Sionizm. Oni mogut delat vsyo chto ugodno. Saudiya hotela kupit orujiya na 10 milliardov, kak vse suverenni`e strani`. Tutje evreyii najali na Beli`y dom i dobilis 23 milliarda Foregin Aid. Esli bi` kto to protivilsya bi` , to srazu obvenili bi` antisemmitizme.

v WWII skolko russkih, ukraintsov, bellorusov umerlo. No vse doljni` pomnit tolko Holokost. pochemu??? Esli odin russkiy poydyot i skajet , chto 10 millionov russkih , 8 millionov ukraintsov umerlo, to yevreii skajut chto eta ni tak, yevreev umerlo bolshe. i nado etomu lish verit.

p.s.

Do gitlera kak oni jili?? esli seychas ih tak pomnyat i uvajayut, to gde bi`li eti Miloserdni`e yevreyii, kogda v polskih, russkih, ukrainskih, chehoslovatskih Getto umerali i eli eli vi`jivali yevreii? ih smert (hotya vryadli ih bi`lo tak mnogo kak govaryat) dlya ostalni`h yevreev ne stal Tragediyey, a prosto stal instrumentom dlya Spekulyatsiy.
Esli oni tak chestni` i dlya nih pamyat ubiti`h yevreev tak dorog, to pochemu Estonskiy i Latviyskiy fashizm v gosudarstvenni`h organah tak populyaren do sih por? pochemu Sionisti` vsego mira ne posadili etih politikov? Esli Holokost ne spekulyatsiya, to pochemu daje v US i Israil ne bi`lo gromkih publikatsiy o profashizme v Pribaltike???

SmIlIk

09-25-2007, 12:57 PM

melo

09-25-2007, 01:50 PM

I agree with you on this one. Jewish holocust is undeniable of course, but since when palestinian holocust (even if it is labeled under "fight against terrorism ") is justified and well tolerated?

Columbia's president acted like a moron. All that booing from students showed not how democratic the scene was but how disrespectful americans can get. I think given the circumstances Iranian president did quite well. Even if many of us think that he is not smart enough, brainless or whatever, admit it, not all of us can sit there and present our ideology, which most likely both religiously and strategicly different from the audience's.

That is because some people are good and some people are evil. :rolleyes: Your rights and life are less important if you fit in this evil category. :(

I had no idea the reception would be that bad. :shock: They basically set up a scene to try to make him look like an idiot. :? The only thing Americans even know about him are comments about Israel, the Holocaust, nuclear weapon development, and that he is leading Iran to cause problems in Iraq. I agree with Delf it would have been a very interesting forum to grill him on Iran's situation outside of his nation's total lack of free media and speech. Wouldn't you like the same opportunity with Karimov? Overall I think the whole thing was stupid and comical. And I was listening to Rush Limbaugh just now talk about how soft they were on Ahmadinejad. :lol: Conservative radio shows are the best.

Maroon

09-25-2007, 01:55 PM

I agree that the President of Columbia University was behaving like a moron.

When you are a president of such a powerful university you should at least be more diplomatic.

To be frank, I thought the Iranian president's reply to the subject of homosexuals was retarded. He should have just said that homosexuality is taboo in Islam and etc. But saying something like "We do not have such a phenomena." I mean did you see his face, he wanted to laugh at his own statement.

In general, he seemed more respectful and diplomatic than the CU's president.

Royal

09-25-2007, 02:07 PM

bu atayin qlingan bir ish...ahmaqqayam malumku bu oyin....
har qandoq bir "public figure'an interview olinmoqchi bolinsa undan soraladi, shunaqa, shunaqa shuncha savolimiz bor dip, savollani spiskasi oldindan beriladi...

bu yerda berilgan savollaga qarama qarshi bolgan savollar berildi va opponent ozini ozini TVini oldida yoqotti.....

Abu-Hafiza

09-25-2007, 02:27 PM

Well, apparently, there are those who deny/cast doubt about the Holocaust.
there are many missconseptions about what "holocaust deniers" are all about. Nobody from even the most hardcore deniers actually deny holocaust. They all aknowledge that many jews, hundreds of thousands of them were killed. But what they dispute though is the number of those who were killed, the authenticity of the reports by large provided by soviet union and the contradicting eye witness reports. And i have to admitt, they do have some point in what they say. Judge for yourself, this is an amature "denier" who is Jew himself.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...70941610001004

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...40420550012012

The reason why it is being such a contraversial subject is because of the ban on doing any academical research about it. The even worse outcome is that it is being used as a prefix for everything thet israel desides to do.

Besides, you of anyone should know that on international arena there are specific rules and consequences of accepting something as geneside. This is the reason why armenians try to exaggerrate the geneside by turks while turks are trying to downplay it. This is the reason why UN failed to announce Darfur as geneside.

Holocaust deniers are disputing the fact that, although it was a huge tragedy and huge crime, it should not be considered as geneside.

However, I think you are wrong saying that today the situation is unchanged -- I think the world is realizing that the Holocaust was a tragedy, but that it should not be a source of another human tragedy, namely for Palestinians. Bush administration has called for a second time in the US history for establishment of independent Palestinian state, the public perception in the US is also changing. I think the recent publication of Israel Lobby in the US where the authors condemn the huge influence of the Israeli lobbyists is quite a step forward to regarding Israelis as equal counterparts who are equally responsible for preserving peace in the Middle East.

I dont htink anyone will buy what bush says. This is just another tactics in his so called war against terror. He needs to sound like caring president whos heart goes out for palestinians, but why did he fail to recognise democratically elected hamas party and where was US when Israel waged its aggression against palestine under the prefix of "freeing its soldier"? Where is bush when Israel is still building its illegal wall?At the moment, the timing of his "call for palestinian state" is in the strange timing and by large, just words but no action.

The problem is that the Arab world or propalestinian forces are employing bad PR techniques. They are not being able to use the raising sympathy to Arabs to their benifits and I think this is something Arabs should reconsider in their efforts to get back their lands. Anyway, I am not a huge Middle East expert, but I think it is time for Arabs to use the momentum. Arabs should be more pragmatic and less inclined on ideological aspects of the war. At the end of the day, it's not a war of cultures or identities -- it's about the land, so pragmatism is something Palestinians and their supporters should add to their arsenal.

And what do you expect? Arabs are labelled as terrorists, who cares about terrorists?

On the subject, the only blunder ahmedinejad did was about homosexualism but in general he did not loose it in face of all the insults. He was polite, unlike his opponent. Compare his attitude to the one of Bush in his interview with Irish reporter:

YouTube - BANNED Pres. Bush Interview

Besides, at the moment we are accusin ahmedinejad of being a "dictator" and stuff without any evidence. He was actually democratically elected. Apart from some of his remarks, nobody can actually show his "terrible record".

UzLand

09-25-2007, 02:54 PM

I hate this framing by some people. "Holocaust-deniers" - what a phrase. How about "Bush-deniers"? Half of the US is such. They deny that Bush was elected in a fair election. But since he was elected and it is a fact proven by the Supreme Court decision, how about jailing and persecuting "Bush-deniers"?

We should adopt some laws in Uzbekistan, for exampling, punishing those who deny that Amir Temur was Uzbek. Why do more research on that? It has already been proven by our scholars.

Frida

09-25-2007, 03:03 PM

In general, he seemed more respectful and diplomatic than the CU's president.

i hated his tone. it was full of self-righteousness. it was like -- oh, dude we invited you here cause we do this with everyone. we pretend as if we are listening, but in reality we just want to show how wrong you are in every single thing you say.

i wonder how much stuff was lost in tranlation.

btw, i heard this specifically from someone who does political discourse analysis in modern Iran (who also happens to be an Iranian speacialist of Persian Lit. and language)-- Ahmadinejad is not very much respected by majority of the population in Iran. Especially, by the liberal and educated ones. Those who respect him are simple, lay people, as Ahmad-d is a very good public speaker and his Persian is like a music to ears, he sure knows how to attract these people. So above note by Melo -- that he is sorta-kinda like Bush can be correct (not about the language :lol: we know which one is more articulate, but about who is attracted to them -- here it is simple, midwestern farmers and there almost the same type).

abcd

09-25-2007, 03:06 PM

melo

09-25-2007, 03:10 PM

In World War II not only Jews but many other people, who belonged to different nations and races were massacared by Nazis. They might have even outnumbered jewish loss. Unfortunately, their lifes are as not as valuable.

Which groups are you referring to that were gathered together and slaughtered in horrific ways because of their ethnicity? I would say Slavic peoples Russians, Poles, Eastern Europeans) in general were one group that was persecuted by Nazis and a large number were also killed and mistreated in prison camps.

abcd

09-25-2007, 03:11 PM

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 03:14 PM

The reason why it is being such a contraversial subject is because of the ban on doing any academical research about it. The even worse outcome is that it is being used as a prefix for everything thet israel desides to do.

Ban on doing any academic research on Holocaust? We probably exist in parallel universes, as in the universe that I live in there was a famous, actually, super famous case of David Irving, a historian who questioned Holocaust, he was actually an academician who did research on Holocaust and came to conclusion that Holocaust, at least the way the global community understands it, did not take place. You also probably never heard of such name as Arthur Butz (not sure about spelling of his last name) -- who was actually an American researcher who did research the issue and as a result totally denied Holocaust. If you actually research it, you'll find that there were hundred of people who researched Holocaust, so there is no ban on researching it. Seriously, where did you get that idea?

Nevertheless, no matter what you call it, any person in his right mind, can not question the fact that millions of Jews were systematically murdered by Nazi Germany -- a fact confirmed during Nurenberg trials, also confirmed by examination of concentration camps, namely Auschwitz, where they had gas chambers to mass murder Jews -- killing for the mere sake of killing. According to the international law, genocide is an act to destroy in part or whole a national, ethnical or religious group. Didn't Nazis try to do it? They did. There was an act to destroy in part or whole an ethnical group -- and that group happened to be Jews. Holocaust is a mere substitute for the word "genocide", so as long as you can't deny genocide of Jews, you can not deny or question Holocaust. So, if you have problems with word "Holocaust", let's use "genocide", but it doesn't change the matter of facts -- Nazi germany mass slaughtered Jews for their being Jews.

melo

09-25-2007, 03:15 PM

I didn't get your post.

You are saying Jews were a small minority of people that were killed by the Nazis and I was asking who exactly they were killing in larger numbers than the Jews? The only group I can think that had similar type treatment would be Slavic ethnicities. I still don't see it as a reason to discount the planned execution of over 6 million European Jews in utterly repulsive circumstances.

abcd

09-25-2007, 03:16 PM

Besides, I guess it is time to ask different questions? Spend much time over the Holocaust and gays is just boring. I am sure he had something to say about other issues too.

Frida

09-25-2007, 03:17 PM

Which gorups are you referring to that were gathereed together and slaughtered in horrific ways because of their ethnicity? I would say Slavic peoples Russians, Poles, Eastern Europeans) in general were one group that was persecuted by Nazis and a large number were also killed and mistreated in prison camps.

also there were gypsy/roma people and homsexuals. but i doubt that these even put together outnumbered Jews. i mean to tell Jews apart was (I assume) easier than saying someone was gay in 40s. I am sure some neighbors helped to identify who was Jew in the neigborhood. Whereas when it comes to gay people it probably was difficult. same goes to Gypsies, they are already such a tiny minority, so saying that they outnumbered Jews who were sent to concentration camps from all over Europe is just a nonsence.

abcd

09-25-2007, 03:20 PM

You are saying Jews were a small minority of people that were killed by the Nazis and I was asking who exactly they were killing in larger numbers than the Jews? The only group I can think that had similar type treatment would be Slavic ethnicities. I still don't see it as a reason to discount the planned execution of over 6 million European Jews in utterly repulsive circumstances.

I didn't say that jews were minority. I said many other nations were masacared by Nazis. I am not hinting at one nation, neither am I quantifing the number of victims.

abcd

09-25-2007, 03:24 PM

Ban on doing any academic research on Holocaust? We probably exist in parallel universes, as in the universe that I live in there was a famous, actually, super famous case of David Irving, a historian who questioned Holocaust, he was actually an academician who did research on Holocaust and came to conclusion that Holocaust, at least the way the global community understands it, did not take place. You also probably never heard of such name as Arthur Butz (not sure about spelling of his last name) -- who was actually an American researcher who did research the issue and as a result totally denied Holocaust. If you actually research it, you'll find that there were hundred of people who researched Holocaust, so there is no ban on researching it. Seriously, where did you get that idea?

Nevertheless, no matter what you call it, any person in his right mind, can not question the fact that millions of Jews were systematically murdered by Nazi Germany -- a fact confirmed during Nurenberg trials, also confirmed by examination of concentration camps, namely Auschwitz, where they had gas chambers to mass murder Jews -- killing for the mere sake of killing. According to the international law, genocide is an act to destroy in part or whole a national, ethnical or religious group. Didn't Nazis try to do it? They did. There was an act to destroy in part or whole an ethnical group -- and that group happened to be Jews. Holocaust is a mere substitute for the word "genocide", so as long as you can't deny genocide of Jews, you can not deny or question Holocaust. So, if you have problems with word "Holocaust", let's use "genocide", but it doesn't change the matter of facts -- Nazi germany mass slaughtered Jews for their being Jews.

Lol. I think you should better do your research yourself. David Irving served jail sentence for denying Holocaust.

bacha

09-25-2007, 03:30 PM

Here is an interview with G.W.Bush where he is asked tough questions. Compare.
YouTube - BANNED Pres. Bush Interview

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 03:36 PM

Lol. I think you should better do your research yourself. David Irving served jail sentence for denying Holocaust.

abcd, if you carefully read the case and the book that was published after it, which was written, if I am not mistaken, by the attorney of David Irving, you will realize that the case is not as simple as it looks at first sight. David Irving was the one who initiated the case and it was actually him who tried to sue American historian Deborah Lipstadt on libel charges. The case did get politicized, but might Irving not bring attention to the book, he wouldn't have gotten charged with anything. Mind that he was not convicted as "Holocaust-denier", but was found guilty of "manipulating documentary record" which are totally two different things. There is no law (at least in the US and in most of the countries) that would make denying Holocaust a crime and therefore, no one can be charged with denying Holocaust.

Please make your statements more carefully.

p.s. The main point of my post was to show that there is no ban on researching Holocaust and you helped me to make my point. Thank you.

bacha

09-25-2007, 03:41 PM

Ok, there are some who point out that Holocaust is a fact. I don`t see anyone arguing it. However, what majority says here is that support of Palestinians, condemnation of Israel has no relevance to the Holocaust. One can love Jews as an ethnic group, yet can hate their government. Somehow, Jews are directly associated with the state of Israel and its actions.

And, what is more important, an historical event, a doubtless tragedy, or a tragedy that is going on right now? We watch movies about concentration camps in the past, but do we get to know much about Palestinian refugee camps today?

bacha

09-25-2007, 03:45 PM

abcd

09-25-2007, 03:51 PM

abcd, if you carefully read the case and the book that was published after it, which was written, if I am not mistaken, by the attorney of 1. David Irving, you will realize that the case is not as simple as it looks at first sight. David Irving was the one who initiated the case and it was actually him who tried to sue American historian Deborah Lipstadt on libel charges. The case did get politicized, but might Irving not bring attention to the book, he wouldn't have gotten charged with anything. Mind that he was not convicted as "Holocaust-denier", but was found guilty of "manipulating documentary record" which are totally two different things. There is no law (at least in the US and in most of the countries) that would make denying Holocaust a crime and therefore, no one can be charged with denying Holocaust.

Please make your statements more carefully.

p.s. The main point of my post was to show that there is no ban on researching Holocaust and you helped me to make my point. Thank you.

Well firstly even people like me with limited historical knoweldge but with excellent googling skills and little bit of logic can defy to your post.

Number one: Libel suit took place in 1996.

Number two:
After Irving denied the Holocaust in two 1989 speeches given in Austria, the Austrian government issued an arrest warrant against him and barred him from entering the country. This case would come up again in 2005 when Irving was arrested and brought to trial (see next section).[41] In early 1992 a German court found him guilty of Holocaust denial under the Auschwitzlüge section of the law against Volksverhetzung (a failed appeal by Irving would see the fine rise from 10000 DM to 30000 DM), and he was subsequently barred from entering Germany.[42] Other governments followed suit, including Austria, Italy and Canada,[43] where he was arrested in November 1992 and deported back to the United Kingdom.[42] In an administrative hearing surrounding those events, he was found by the hearing office to have engaged in a "total fabrication" in telling a story of an exit from and return to Canada which would have, for technical reasons, made the original deportation order invalid. He was also barred from entering Australia in 1992, a ban he made four unsuccessful legal attempts to overturn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

Number three: If you say that you can deny Holocaust with no aftermath, then yeah indeed we do live in different universes.

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 03:51 PM

Here is an interview with G.W.Bush where he is asked tough questions. Compare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fze2J2Ve9is

People -- this world is not about Bush, Ahmadinejad or Putin. If you hate one of these, it doesn't mean that you automatically must like the second one. It's a multiple choice test, with one of options being I Like None. Enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my best friend.

Probably, offtop, but it seems like, Ahmadinejad is so popular because everyone dislikes Bush and Ahmadinejad does seem to be a voice to speak against Bush administration. Anyway, the point is there is no need to go to extremes.

If a president of Columbia university was such an asshole (and he was), it doesn't mean that Ahmadinejad was brilliant -- some statements are simple lies, e.g. "The freest women in the world live in Iran" (alright, this may be questionanble) or "On a daily basis, we have tens — many, many newspapers or dozens of newspapers in our country, and the number of those newspapers that are against the government in place right now are perhaps 10 times larger than the newspapers that are pro-government." Anyway, it's not all black and white.

bacha

09-25-2007, 03:56 PM

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 04:02 PM

Well firstly even people like me with limited historical knoweldge but with excellent googling skills and little bit of logic can defy to your post.

Number one: Libel suit took place in 1996.

Number two:
After Irving denied the Holocaust in two 1989 speeches given in Austria, the Austrian government issued an arrest warrant against him and barred him from entering the country. This case would come up again in 2005 when Irving was arrested and brought to trial (see next section).[41] In early 1992 a German court found him guilty of Holocaust denial under the Auschwitzlüge section of the law against Volksverhetzung (a failed appeal by Irving would see the fine rise from 10000 DM to 30000 DM), and he was subsequently barred from entering Germany.[42] Other governments followed suit, including Austria, Italy and Canada,[43] where he was arrested in November 1992 and deported back to the United Kingdom.[42] In an administrative hearing surrounding those events, he was found by the hearing office to have engaged in a "total fabrication" in telling a story of an exit from and return to Canada which would have, for technical reasons, made the original deportation order invalid. He was also barred from entering Australia in 1992, a ban he made four unsuccessful legal attempts to overturn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

Number three: If you say that you can deny Holocaust with no aftermath, then yeah indeed we do live in different universes.

abcd, I am glad I was a reason who googled the topic. Now you know little more about Holocaust and its denial.

Your Wikipedia skills are impressive, but again, they do prove my point that doing research on Holocaust is not barred. I didn't say that there will be no aftermath, did I? But I said that if you want to go ahead and make a research, do it and trust me, you are not going to go to prison for that in most countries. I agree -- Irving did a stupid thing delivering lecture in Austria -- an ally of the Nazi German, equally responsible for Holocaust. Germans and Austrians are still very nervous about anything relating to Holocaust as they did commit it and that was the reason Irving was arrested in Austria. So, as long as you are in a country that does not have Holocaust-denial laws (e.g., France recently adopted laws making denial of Armenian Holocaust a crime) there is no way you can claim you are being barred from researching Holocaust.

Octavarium

09-25-2007, 04:05 PM

Octavarium, I said compare. Do not put words into my mouth. In no post of mine here did I support Iranian President. Actually, I think what he is doing harms his country more than helps. So, please. :)

I apologize if it looked like I was putting words in your mouth -- had no intention of doing so and trust me, I wasn't talking about you, as you are a facilitator and you're doing quite a good job so far. It was just that your call to compare these two guys made me think of the way most people regard the issue -- evil Bush and Messiah Ahmadinejad. It was just reflection and had nothing to do with your post.

But thank you for bringing this to my attention and again, I apologize if I made it look like you were supporting Mr. A.

Abu-Hafiza

09-25-2007, 04:41 PM

Octavarium, it really seems like we li ve in different universes

What is the point of saying "research of holocaust is allowed, but you will be jailed once you come up with results"? is that the freedom of research?

How about the LAWS prohibiting any negative critisism of jewish nationals, espessially holocaust?

Nouremberg trial is questionable, you need to look into the other side of the story as well. With regards to auswitz, did you even skip through the video links I have provided? That was exactly about that.

Besides, how much do you know about Iran? Yes, I admit, it is not the perfect state on the face of the earth but nobody actually brought any plausable critisism of ahmedinejad's record while he was in office.

Did you know that the whole of the welth of Ahmedinejad is one apartment in Tehran and a car? In difference from Rafsanjani or Muhammad Khatami who posess enormous wealth.

Besides, do not forget that Iran is the ocuntry under economical sanctions and is currently surrounded by hostile US all around, apart from on the tiny north, Azerbayjan.

Now as I said, I am not advocating ahmedinejad, but please be kind enough and bring evidence when you critisize someone's personality and record.

Frida

09-25-2007, 05:07 PM

people, instead of just following your own thoughts, try to read the previous posts too. it is becoming a monologue rather than a discussion. octavarium already explained a couple of times what he meant regarding that guy's research and his later imprisonment.

abcd

09-25-2007, 05:23 PM

abcd, I am glad I was a reason who googled the topic. Now you know little more about Holocaust and its denial.
Well, first of all I would suggest not to give too much credit for yourself because I was just being humble.:D I surely have heard about Irving and only googled it to back up my assertions.

Your Wikipedia skills are impressive, but again, they do prove my point that doing research on Holocaust is not barred.

May I disagree on your point and once again let you enjoy with my Wikipedia skills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial).
I didn't say that there will be no aftermath, did I? But I said that if you want to go ahead and make a research, do it and trust me, you are not going to go to prison for that in most countries.
In countries such as Iran, Syria, although many countries who consider themselves as a flagships of free speech and democracy will either put you jail or consider mentally ill.

I agree -- Irving did a stupid thing delivering lecture in Austria -- an ally of the Nazi German, equally responsible for Holocaust. Germans and Austrians are still very nervous about anything relating to Holocaust as they did commit it and that was the reason Irving was arrested in Austria. So, as long as you are in a country that does not have Holocaust-denial laws (e.g., France recently adopted laws making denial of Armenian Holocaust a crime) there is no way you can claim you are being barred from researching Holocaust.
Again, the same goes here, you certainly can do research in Iran, or Syria, however, you can not predict consequences of that bravery (or insanity, depending on from which angle to approach).

Secondly once you are committed to the research what would be your first logical country to start with?

abcd

09-25-2007, 05:26 PM

SAMARKANDI!

09-25-2007, 05:33 PM

Octavarium, I said compare. Do not put words into my mouth. In no post of mine here did I support Iranian President. Actually, I think what he is doing harms his country more than helps. So, please. :)

Undergoing some pressure, whether you call it harming his country or otherwise I believe is a better option than being another SHAH of Iran. Since the 2 options given by the western "liberators" is to have someone like Shah rule Iran or else suffer the consequences (it is like play by our rules, we will let sanctions go, or work hard and be blamed of being president harming his own country). Being in the latter position is not as easy as it seems given the country’s strategic location and natural resources and I think he is doing quite a good job. But again I am not saying he is all excellent.

abcd

09-25-2007, 05:37 PM

Nazi's did not kill any nations. They targeted people of certain ethnicities, people with disabilities, people with certain sexual preferences and people with different political views. They mainly targeted Jewish community and even had a policy titled "The Final Solution of the Jewish Question." Also Holocaust refers to a genocide of not only Jews but also the other groups prosecuted by the Nazi regime with a death toll of 9-11 million people with 6 million of them being Jews. I think this is a tragedy and calling it a lie is an insult to all the people who were killed - Jews or others.

Well lady, first of all there were not 6 million people in prisons and those jails were not exclusively built to torture jews. There were much more people who shared the same fate of being tortured and used as rats in their horrendous experiments. Hitler might have been after jews but somebody also mentioned in this discussion that he was after gipsies too.

On the other hand you might have watched movie Pianist, where a pianist jew hides from nazis in ruins of houses. When I watched this film, I could not understand why he was hiding and not joining militia who was at that time fighting against nazis. I guess that film in general portrayed the jews during the WWII. Had they shown more resistance, who knows maybe the Holocaust scales would not be that large.

bacha

09-25-2007, 05:58 PM

Undergoing some pressure, whether you call it harming his country or otherwise I believe is a better option than being another SHAH of Iran. Since the 2 options given by the western "liberators" is to have someone like Shah rule Iran or else suffer the consequences (it is like play by our rules, we will let sanctions go, or work hard and be blamed of being president harming his own country). Being in the latter position is not as easy as it seems given the country’s strategic location and natural resources and I think he is doing quite a good job. But again I am not saying he is all excellent.
Samarkandi, I agree with you.

When I say he is wrong in what he is doing, I meant the Holocaust conference in Tehran, his emotional and controversial speeches. Iranians have a problem of their own, their nuclear program. Why deteriorate their positions by such actions? Iran is under so much pressure, yet his actions do not help ease their situation. Sanctions do harm iranian economy.

SAMARKANDI!

09-25-2007, 06:19 PM

Samarkandi, I agree with you.

When I say he is wrong in what he is doing, I meant the Holocaust conference in Tehran, his emotional and controversial speeches. Iranians have a problem of their own, their nuclear program. Why deteriorate their positions by such actions? Iran is under so much pressure, yet his actions do not help ease their situation. Sanctions do harm iranian economy.

U r right, from one side it is true, since he is being watched by western "dogs" from all sides, he must be careful in his speeches and actions, but on the other hand he has his own audience besides western countries, i.e. Middle East is his main audience. He needs support from Arabs, from people within Iran using his dissatisfaction with Israel’s actions, since Israeli issue is hot topic there, you can get good support by backing Palestinian plea there. To be able to get even stronger support, which is very important given the western propaganda roaming around in the region, he must make bold statements, thats what people respect, even though it "may" not be true, it has strong argument behind it regarding the overall holocaust issue.

I mean, he is just doing fine.

p.s. just think, his statements about the holocaust sparked so much discussion around the world about what and how Israel is "doing".

Inspiredmind

09-25-2007, 10:18 PM

IAK keldimi ?

UzLand

09-25-2007, 10:28 PM

Nazi's did not kill any nations. They targeted people of certain ethnicities, people with disabilities, people with certain sexual preferences and people with different political views. They mainly targeted Jewish community and even had a policy titled "The Final Solution of the Jewish Question."

Wow, is that the outcome of your Holocaust research?:)

It is good you didn't say that Hitler went to war against all those nations only to get the Jews living in those states since they didn't have their own country back then. And Slavs (around 40-45 million) were probably a collateral damage, right? Of course, he didn't mean to kill them, it was their fault that they had allowed Jews to live in their countries...

Also Holocaust refers to a genocide of not only Jews but also the other groups prosecuted by the Nazi regime with a death toll of 9-11 million people with 6 million of them being Jews. I think this is a tragedy and calling it a lie is an insult to all the people who were killed - Jews or others.

May be, but somehow no one except for Jews did really capitalize on this notion.

lilbit

09-25-2007, 10:39 PM

what's difference among family, tribe, nation, ethnicity, human beings???

Nazi's were accused of crime against humanity, so it involved every family, tribe, nation, ethnicity!

The thread about the guy who in different places talks differently! I do not like such kind of people, called "i nashim i vashim". But we'll see how the policy of Iran change in future. May be they realized that they made stupid decisions?

Abu-Hafiza

09-25-2007, 11:09 PM

May be they realized that they made stupid decisions?
Can you eloborate? I will have to ask AGAIN to show the evidence (and please do not go down the usual boring line of no women rights blah blah blah, show solid evidence. )

Besides, I dont understand you people. The biggest fault of Iran is that it took anti-american stance in its politics and everything that comes out of media about Iran is either distorted or fabricated or at least negative.

Like one example, Ahmedinejad's alledged saying "Israel must be wiped out of the map" is miss translation of his words. What he actually said was "Israel will fade away from the pages of history (or something like that).

Now, when people talk about Iran, they somehow forget that it was America who installed shah of Iran during who's time Iran was much worse then what it is now. Then anti-american "mollas" overthrew Shah, who was America's good buddy and immediately US started to support Saddam in his war against newly formed Iran.

Now, Iran was fed up with Shah and his western friends and overthrew him. Then immediately they faced war against well-armed, west supported Saddam, the war that technically Saddam lost. Then it had to face economical sanctions and complete isolation from the world. And all of it just because they chose to have their own leaders in Iran. And in the moment it is surrounded by hostile forces, especially US. But even under this situation, Iran managed to emerge as the power to be reconed with, I think it is impressive. They have democratically elected leadership, something that America doesnt want to admit for some reason. They have growing economy, huge heavy industry and manufacture in place. People in Iran are educated.

Anyways, please back your claims up with evidence.

lilbit

09-25-2007, 11:29 PM

Can you eloborate? I
of course!

One, especially man should stay for his words and ideas and not change them, of course if he is not slut. I presume that Ahmadinejad is not slut then he realized his previous stupid words and decision against whole nation (Jews).

bacha

09-25-2007, 11:33 PM

I agree with Abu-Hafiza on Iran`s achievements. Besides their natural resources, they have developed very strong industry. And this happened regardless of sanctions, one of the most expensive wars(Iran-Iraq war) and years of hostility with the greatest economy in the world.

Also, one point is being missed here. The political system of Iran. President, although elected by the population, is not the top leader of the state. The spiritual leader and clerics are the ones who make final decisions. And, there are strong moderate politicians(the former presidents Hatami and Rafshandjani) vs. hardcore conservative ones(Ahmadinejad and clerics).

lilbit

09-25-2007, 11:40 PM

pervie gribi posle dojdya

Палата представителей США одобрила во вторник законопроект, ужесточающий санкции против Ирана и запрещающий Белому дому любое сотрудничество со странами, которые оказывают Ирану содействие в ядерной сфере.

Как сообщает АР, законопроект, предложенный конгрессменом-демократом от штата Калифорния Томом Лантосом, был одобрен подавляющим большинством голосов - 397 "за" и 16 "против". [

and his response

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in a United Nations address Tuesday, said the issue of Iran's nuclear program is closed because of Tehran's cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, the IAEA. He said Iran would consider further U.N. Security Council sanctions against his country completely illegal. VOA's David Gollust reports from our U.N. bureau.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 01:54 AM

dear friends,
lets not deviate from the topic and lets stop talking about holocaust etc.
My comments about the speech by Ahmadinejad at Columbia are as follows.
First of all, punk prof behaved as an old prick who tried to get an erection. I would judge his introduction, questions and comments to be unacceptable and inapropriate for a professor and it makes me wonder how many dick headed profs there are in the states.
Secondly, to all questions posed to Ahmedinejad, the audience received appropriate answers. There is no doubt about the charisma in Ahmadinejad\'s speech so that the audience (imagine all brainwashed by FOX and CNN, prowestern and prepared-to-battle) could not stop themselves from apploding to the answers by Ahmadinejad.
Thirdly, Ahmadinejad has denied the existance, as a consequence the execution of homos. He had no other choice because it is not true. the reason, as an Islamic state maybe this is the right punishment for such type of crimes but he didnt go into details. Which shows he is a good diplomat.
Fourthly, it shows the dick headed americans how morally low they are, you can\'t just invite a guest speaker especially a legitimate president a nation with the population of 50.000.000 and throw mud at him. It is first of all disrespect for yourself unless you are one of dick headed pricks.
Fifthly, Ahmadinejad won the battle and the prick prof lost it.
Sixly, hate will provoke only hate.

Abu-Hafiza

09-26-2007, 04:58 AM

of course!

One, especially man should stay for his words and ideas and not change them, of course if he is not slut. I presume that Ahmadinejad is not slut then he realized his previous stupid words and decision against whole nation (Jews).Again, you didnt bring any proof as such.
As far as I can see, he is standing for his words.

All he does is critisize state of Israel. If you are talking about "israel should be wiped out of the map" fiasco, then he actually did not say that. He was saying that Israeli state is so unpopular and fragile that it will fade away on the pages of history just like other states did.

As Ahmedinejad said, and I agree, there are between 30 to 40 thousand jews living in Iran where they live in peace. I have not read in anywhere anything saying that jews are being persecuted in Iran just because they are jews.
And believe me, there are hundreds of millions of people who dont mind jews but hate israeli zionist government.

boburshoh

09-26-2007, 05:05 AM

The way the Iranian president handled Columbia president's ill treatment indicated that he had expected it and was ready for it. After all, i am sure he was aware that he was among people who wormly welcomed Arial Sharon (the butcher of sabra and shatilla) as a "man of peace" !!

Professor

09-26-2007, 06:31 AM

No Zionist Jews are associated with Israel, not all Jews. I know a lot of Jewish people who do not support the Zionist ideology but actively support Palestinian plea. So there is a distinction. Just like Muslims there are different kind of Jews.

The very basic foundation ot Talmud teaches about destruction and humilation of other nations. There are good Jews from the statement in Koran...but again very very few..."ulardan bir ozi".

kudrin

09-26-2007, 06:43 AM

Every nation and state has a right to exist. same is for State of Israel. The strongest will survive. this is the law of nature. jews are smart it means they earn a lot of money. A lot of money means the power. power means strength. that simple. moreover jews are the most educated people and they are committed to their religion and history.
If you want to survive be strong and pray.

Professor

09-26-2007, 06:44 AM

Look to modern world history...countries opposing to US aggression and policy..

Dr.Ahmadinejad is the only one stands firmly against American destruction machine...is the first among moslem presidents who initiated the eligibility of Holocaust theory...who openly supports and politically acknowledge Palestinian Territories and has not ties with Israel.

Islam is the university and politics/economics/media/law/management and ect., are faculties of that university....so if you read all verses of chapter 2 in Koran, which aware and teach us how to deal with the world affairs, you will understand the background of Ahmadinejad's remarks and statements.

The world is closely approaches to it's finish....and by the will of God..all those betrayers and criminals soon will be prosecuted, ameen.

Abu-Hafiza

09-26-2007, 06:56 AM

Every nation and state has a right to exist. same is for State of Israel. The strongest will survive.

Did not quite understand your statement. So, every nation has a right to exist (agreed), the strongest will survive, implying that the weakest (i.e. Palestine) will perish, but then again, hey, every nation has a right to exist. But they are not strong, so they will perish, while they have rights to exist................

A bit confused.

Besides, you do not exersice your right to exist by occupying illegally the lands that dont belong to you, you dont exersice your right to exist by balantly ignore some 429 resolutions passed against you and carry on your illegal activities and you dont exersize your right to exist by assassinating the political figures, accusing them of being terrorists. Everyone knows that Israel is the biggest terrorist state in the face of the world.

Professor

09-26-2007, 07:13 AM

i hated his tone. it was full of self-righteousness. it was like -- oh, dude we invited you here cause we do this with everyone. we pretend as if we are listening, but in reality we just want to show how wrong you are in every single thing you say.

i wonder how much stuff was lost in tranlation.

btw, i heard this specifically from someone who does political discourse analysis in modern Iran (who also happens to be an Iranian speacialist of Persian Lit. and language)-- Ahmadinejad is not very much respected by majority of the population in Iran. Especially, by the liberal and educated ones. Those who respect him are simple, lay people, as Ahmad-d is a very good public speaker and his Persian is like a music to ears, he sure knows how to attract these people. So above note by Melo -- that he is sorta-kinda like Bush can be correct (not about the language :lol: we know which one is more articulate, but about who is attracted to them -- here it is simple, midwestern farmers and there almost the same type).

You may find some Iranians in Samarkand as a businesspeople or doctors. And having good chat with them over the politics and country affairs...they all agree that he could do his best...but they fully realize the ongoing situation and current proxy war and spinning against Iran.

He's alike a father in the family. Eventhough we love him..but he's a obstacle for getting up late time, laying comfortably on the sofa on his presence, watching TV all day long, his cloth screening procedure before leaving our homes, chatting hours over the phone and etc...an we're just waiting when he will leave the home for us to embrace freedom and do whatever we want.

Conclusion: There are some bustards who hates his/her father just relying on his/her desires...and some loving him and just learning and imitating him with patience.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 07:22 AM

Professor

09-26-2007, 07:27 AM

To those who have watched, or heard the speech of the iranian leader at the Columbia University, would love to hear your feedbacks.

The CU president resembled the way of arrogant Bush..which is the part of American spoiled society....there is no value for modest and family-love mothers but kids admire super stars promoting their bodies all their lives.

All American and British head of states are always piece of s**ts and arrogant...never pays attention what people want them to focus.

P.S. How many Americans know where is Myanmar is......but all their media just typing that the situation there outrageous Americans....stupidly strange. They are even ready to bomb Kirgizstan.....simply goats.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 07:36 AM

Professor

09-26-2007, 07:36 AM

Abu-Hafiza

09-26-2007, 07:36 AM

Abu Khafiza i like your nick mate, and the translation too.
You say that everyone knows that state of israel is the biggest terrorist country but this very \'everyone\' also know that israel wanted to removed from the map during 6 day war and until today the situation didnt change dramatically. Golan highlands and palestinian territories are strategic area for the security of israel. like a buffer zone against foreign attaks. israel was built in a palestinian land. if israel gives sovereignity to palestine then the conflict will not end. so why would palestine grant sovereignity to the occupied territories.
about my previous post on this topic. yes i will repeat every state has the right to exist, but survival is different thing.
many respects mate.
Thank you mate for your comments on my nick.

Regarding 6 day war, it was actually Israel who made a "preemtive strike" against egypt.

So let me get it right again. Just because Palestine is "strategically important to Israel for acting like a buffer against (well, well, well) Egyptians and Jordanians, who happen to be friends of Israel at present, Israel has rights to carry out atrosities against people who live there and lived there for centuries?

Besides, if every nation has rights to exist, then why was israel built on the lands of palestinians in the first place?Or palestinians are not people, they are merely "strategic buffers" is it?

Besides, you stated that "giving sovereignity to Palestine wont end the conflict", counter question to you, does carrying on the illegal occupation, blackmailing the whole nation, building illegal walls, proceding with illegal settlements, sending tanks against stone throwing children solve the conflict? As long as America supports the terrorist regime of Israel, sheilding it from any punishment and giving them go ahead to do whatever they like, there will be groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and people and/or governments supporting them.

Professor

09-26-2007, 07:40 AM

Professor,
I totally agree with you. What would you do with your freedom anyway if you have no vision. ahmadinejad has the vision.

a quick reminder for the holocaust thing. there has been no interest in re-doing a research on holocaust for many years and this came out just recently for the challange of prick headed dannish journalist with the cartoon issue. it was an answer to the so called \'western civilised world\' for its defence of aggressive freedom of speech.

Mr. Kudrin...holocaust was discussed and denied by the people for a long time...and only Dr.Ahmadinejad promted it for more official level and dared publicly announce "finishing dirty games and hypnose" thus suffocating humanity.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 07:43 AM

Professor,
this was a good stereotype of americans, as goats. so their presidents are.
recently i heard that OObarak OObama wanted to fight with pakistan as a feedback to one of his critics who said that he is too peaceful. can u imagine? because he loses polls now he wants to open war against pakistan. who the hell you are the americans. do u think that you are the best and the strongest?

kudrin

09-26-2007, 07:48 AM

Asadbek

09-26-2007, 08:08 AM

Professor,
with all my respect to you I believe that holocaust did really happen. ...
Holocaust - yahudiylarning Nemis fashistlari tomonidan qirilishi bo'lgan narsa. Ammo, 2-Jahon urushida yahidiylardan boshqa xalqlar ham qirilgan. Holocaust mavzusining kuchliligi - dunyodagi (cionist) Yahudiylar Lobbysining kuchliligidadir.

Nemis konclagerlarida yahidiylarning o'ziga yahudiylarni o'ldirishga, gazxonalarda o'ldirilganlarni pechkalarda yoqishga majbur etishgan (http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/zoyljlxi/dokudiesklavendergaskammerdasj.jpg)...
Ammo, bu narsa yahudiylarning necha yildirki Falastinda qilib kelayotgan jinoyatlarini aslo oqlamaydi...
Hitler hokimiyat tepasiga kelgan vaqtdan (hatto undan oldin) boshlab 2-Jahon Urushi bopshlangunicha (asosan 1939 yilgacha va qisman 1941 yilgacha), cionist yahidiylar Fashistlar bilan juda faol ishlashgan - yahudiylarni mol-mulki bilan Falastinga chiqarib ketish borasida Fashistlar bilan Ha'avara shartnomasi bo'lgan ularning. Maqsad - Falastinda Yahudiylar davlatini barpo etish bo'lgan.
Cionistlar Hitler siyosatidan juda yaxshi foydalanishgan...

Frida

09-26-2007, 08:26 AM

kudrin

09-26-2007, 08:46 AM

Dostim Asadbek,
siz haqiqadtan ham bu togrisida kop narsa bilar ekansiz. Bu juda yahshi.
qopol misol keltiraman, agar yahudiy bolganizda, ularning kelib chiqishi, dunyo qarashi, ishonchlari bilan birga ozingizni qanday tutgan bolar edingiz? falastindek muborak tuproqdan ozingizga vatan qilmoqchi bolsangiz?
Vatan deyishda adashmayman chunki osha tuproqlarda nechi asirlardan beri yashab kelgan yahudi millati. Sulaymon (a.s.) ning davlatining poythati ham Quddus shahri bolgan bundan 3000 yil avval.
Va yahudiylarning yagona maqsadi ozini vataniga qaytib kelish bolgan. va ular bunga erishdi ham. Besh ketish kerak togrisi ularning aqllariga.

Hech qaysi davlat oz yurtida beqarorlik bolishini hohlamaydi. shu jumladan isroil davlati ham. hozirgi kunda osha mintaqdagi ahvol shuni taqozo etarkanki beqarorlik va notinchlik evaziga bolsa ham bosib olingan hududlarni isroil qulidan chiqarmoqchi emas. agar tinchlik evaziga falastin muhtoryatiga suverenitet taminlangan bolganida isroil davlati shu masalaning yechimini qabul qilar edi degan fikrdaman.
hurmat ila

Guardian

09-26-2007, 08:57 AM

Does anyone in here know how I can find the debate of Ahmadenejad in original language?

Would appreciate.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 08:59 AM

Thank you mate for your comments on my nick.

Regarding 6 day war, it was actually Israel who made a \"preemtive strike\" against egypt. (yes you are right because israel\'s intelligence advised of preparation to war against israel by neighboring countries. and israel distroyed most of the airforce of egyptjust before the war started.)

So let me get it right again. Just because Palestine is \"strategically important to Israel for acting like a buffer against (well, well, well) Egyptians and Jordanians, who happen to be friends of Israel at present, Israel has rights to carry out atrosities against people who live there and lived there for centuries? until the security for israel will not be secured I guess this will continue

Besides, if every nation has rights to exist, then why was israel built on the lands of palestinians in the first place?Or palestinians are not people, they are merely \"strategic buffers\" is it? would you trade your security to the freedom of other people?

Besides, you stated that \"giving sovereignity to Palestine wont end the conflict\", counter question to you, does carrying on the illegal occupation, blackmailing the whole nation, building illegal walls, proceding with illegal settlements, sending tanks against stone throwing children solve the conflict? As long as America supports the terrorist regime of Israel, sheilding it from any punishment and giving them go ahead to do whatever they like, there will be groups like Hezbollah and Hamas and people and/or governments supporting them. Occupation has never been legal. and its justification is subject to the extent of your power in the world arena.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 09:06 AM

I am sorry professor, but this is BS. President is not your father. Start from there....

This ment to be a metaphorical idea. its not good to hear worlds like bullshit from a nice girl like you.

BTW, Fridahon rasmiz chiroyli ekan, siz bilan tanishso boladimi?

Professor

09-26-2007, 09:10 AM

I am sorry professor, but this is BS. President is not your father. Start from there....

I'm sory as well...but not attentive reading creates this BS.

Someone told that half of the nation doesn't respect Ahmadijenad....and I explained why it could happen and gave a sample comparing with the family and the status held by the father and his behaviour. Make a point from here...

Professor

09-26-2007, 09:14 AM

Professor,
with all my respect to you I believe that holocaust did really happen. however the figures are exaggerated by far. it would be funny that hitler with his hatred against the jews didnt hurt a jew during 6 year of WWII.

If one will look through history books....he/she could find out that jews were subject of humilation and anihilation as well. It was much before the introducing Islam...Christianity and other Buddisim as well. So there's a reason..I think.

kudrin

09-26-2007, 09:21 AM

I dont understand some of the posts. Who are arabs to you? have they ever helped you? I have known arabs but none was as good as i expected. they were very foxy. I have respect to them as the nation of our prophet (sav) and as a human being. otherwise i have no more sympathy. if they were good enough they would have found a way to help palestinians out.

MUHLIS

09-26-2007, 09:25 AM

He's alike a father in the family. Eventhough we love him..but he's a obstacle for getting up late time, laying comfortably on the sofa on his presence, watching TV all day long, his cloth screening procedure before leaving our homes, chatting hours over the phone and etc...an we're just waiting when he will leave the home for us to embrace freedom and do whatever we want.
Shu father degan iborangiz uchun:
But how could the government of the State be like that of the family, when the basis on which they rest is so different? The father being physically stronger than his children, his paternal authority, as long as they need his protection, may be reasonably said to be established by nature. But in the great family, all the members of which are naturally equal, the political authority, being purely arbitrary as far as its institution is concerned, can be founded only on conventions, and the Magistrate can have no authority over the rest, except by virtue of the laws. The duties of a father are dictated to him by natural feelings, and in a manner that seldom allows him to neglect them. For rulers there is no such principle, and they are really obliged to the people only by what they themselves have promised to do, and the people have therefore a right to require of them. Another more important difference is that since the children have nothing but what they receive from their father, it is plain that all the rights of property belong to him, or emanate from him; but quite the opposite is the case in the great family, where the general administration is established only to secure individual property, which is antecedent to it.
Although the functions of the father of a family and those of the chief magistrate ought to make for the same object, they must do so in such different ways, and their duty and rights are so essentially distinct, that we cannot confound them without forming very false ideas about the fundamental laws of society, and falling into errors which are fatal to mankind. In fact, if the voice of nature is the best counsellor to which a father can listen in the discharge of his duty, for the Magistrate it is a false guide, which continually prevents him from performing his, and leads him on sooner or later to the ruin of himself and of the State, if he is not restrained by the most sublime virtue. The only precaution necessary for the father of a family is to guard himself against depravity, and prevent his natural inclinations from being corrupted; whereas it is these themselves which corrupt the Magistrate. In order to act aright, the first has only to consult his heart; the other becomes a traitor the moment he listens to his.
A DISCOURSE
ON POLITICAL ECONOMY, Jean Jacques Rousseau, 1755. http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=RouPoli.xml&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1

Professor

09-26-2007, 10:13 AM

Shu father degan iborangiz uchun:

A DISCOURSE
ON POLITICAL ECONOMY, Jean Jacques Rousseau, 1755. http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=RouPoli.xml&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1

Bir gap aytardimu....lekin sabrli va friendly bulaylik. 94-95 postlarni o'qib kuring.....bazan shu odamni mahsus qanaqadir yomon fikirlashga undaysizlar ey:(

MUHLIS

09-26-2007, 11:02 AM

Bir gap aytardimu....lekin sabrli va friendly bulaylik. 94-95 postlarni o'qib kuring.....bazan shu odamni mahsus qanaqadir yomon fikirlashga undaysizlar ey:(
Men siz prezidentga (qaysi prezidentligini ahamiyati yo'q) nisbat berib ishlatgan "Ota" degan iboraga nisbatan o'z fikrimni bildirdim holos, siyosatda "ota" rolining qanday oqibatlarga olib kelganini va kelayotganini hamma yaxshi biladi (birgina "millatlar otasi" Stalinni eslash kifoya).
Jan Jak Russo siyosatda "ota" nima uchun yaxshi emasligini juda chiroyli ifodalagan, shuning uchun undan parcha keltirgandim.
Odamlar ustidan qonun hukm surishi kerak, "ota", "podsho", "shoh", "president", "shayh", "halif" va xokazolar emas. Men shunday fikrdaman. Shaxsan sizga xech qanday husumatim yo'q, men o'z fikrimni bildirdim holos.
.

Professor

09-26-2007, 11:20 AM

Men siz prezidentga (qaysi prezidentligini ahamiyati yo'q) nisbat berib ishlatgan "Ota" degan iboraga nisbatan o'z fikrimni bildirdim holos, siyosatda "ota" rolining qanday oqibatlarga olib kelganini va kelayotganini hamma yaxshi biladi (birgina "millatlar otasi" Stalinni eslash kifoya).
Jan Jak Russo siyosatda "ota" nima uchun yaxshi emasligini juda chiroyli ifodalagan, shuning uchun undan parcha keltirgandim.
Odamlar ustidan qonun hukm surishi kerak, "ota", "podsho", "shoh", "president", "shayh", "halif" va xokazolar emas. Men shunday fikrdaman. Shaxsan sizga xech qanday husumatim yo'q, men o'z fikrimni bildirdim holos.
.

Birodar Muhlis....ikkalamiz ham ayni kuchada va ayni uyni qidirmoqdamiz. O'zbek tilida usha post haqida lundagina malumot beraman:

Qaysidir bir user Eronda odamlarning yarmi prezidentga nisbatan hurmati yuqligini aytdi...
ibtw, i heard this specifically from someone who does political discourse analysis in modern Iran (who also happens to be an Iranian speacialist of Persian Lit. and language)-- Ahmadinejad is not very much respected by majority of the population in Iran.
men esa buning sababini oila masalasida kursatib berdim. Yani ayni kuchani changitib yuradigan yoshda otamiz bizga uni qilma buni qil deb ancha uzimiz istagandek zavqlanishga tusqinlik qiladi...yani Otaning bizning kelajagimizni uylab bizga aql urgatishi yoki tugri yulni kursatishini biz faqtagina usha yoshga borganimizda anglaymiz........Eronda ham g'arb hayotini qumsagan, internetdan har hil fuhush tula hayotni istagan, sabrsiz va noshkur qism prezidentni yoqtirmaydi demoqchi edim holos. Shariyat hayotini kutarolmagan qism haqiga edi gap. Uni siyosatdagi "OTA" roliga kutarmoqchi emasdim.

Ma assalama

UzLand

09-26-2007, 11:26 AM

Pianist alone is not a good example to use of the Jewish Holocaust, watch movies like Schindler's list, Anne Frank, Holocaust, Sophie's Choice and Life is Beautiful. Also read some biographical non-fictions - they are pretty horrific and than we can talk about resistance then.

UzbekGirlie, movies do not reflect reality and truth. Otherwise Borat would be a great source of information about Kazakhs. Books are too.

Turks have written so much about Armenian genocide and Armenians have done the same. Who do we believe?

I am saying in general terms without referrence to Holocaust.

While I am not denying its fact, its use and misuse by political groups, just like a religion, have created so much opposition to the notion of the Holocaust.

It happened, period, point taken, but no need for the third generation of Germans to feel guilty, always yield to Jewish demands and pressure because of this, besides Jews were not discriminated too much. In every country they had their own place in government and business, even in Germany, in USSR, in Uzbekistan.

melo

09-26-2007, 02:20 PM

UzbekGirlie, movies do not reflect reality and truth. Otherwise Borat would be a great source of information about Kazakhs. Books are too.

Turks have written so much about Armenian genocide and Armenians have done the same. Who do we believe?

Are you saying the only source of truth is the news? :D

kipchak

09-26-2007, 04:45 PM

интересно, а как Узландыч бы осветил своим неугасающим пером и могучим интеллектом столь знаменательное событие?

ПС
наплодилось тут вас, "антисемитов":)

bacha

09-26-2007, 06:30 PM

Kipchak and Uzland, good to have you back guys. :)

PainKiller

09-26-2007, 07:54 PM

The very basic foundation ot Talmud teaches about destruction and humilation of other nations
Can you expand your statement by quotations from Talmud? General statements as such without any reasonable argument make it sound as a hate speech to me.

Ahmidenejad in his previous speeches said Israel to be wiped off the world map, and he corrected himself later on by stating that he did not mean the distruction of state of Israel, but he meant the democratic referendum and etc. Well, too bad. As a politician you need to watch what you say, people do not read your mind, they base their opinion about your intentions, especially if you are a president, based on your words.
I still do not get why he is insisting on researches on holocaust, unless he thinks there is a possibility of arguing it's existance. Which in my opinion, is an insult to jews. I read how some skin-head russians were arguing that uzbeks had anything to do with victory during WWII. I was pissed. And how can one expect Jewish population not be angry at Ahmedinejad after his bizarre speeches?
PS. Nazi Germans killed a lot of people of different ethnicities and nationalities, but you should be deaf dumb to argue that they had special hatred towards Jews.

PainKiller

09-26-2007, 07:57 PM

And, CNN announced that Christiane Amanpour will interview Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Anderson Cooper 360 Wednesday, Sept 26th at 10pm ET. I am waiting, I love Ms.Amanpour)

UzLand

09-26-2007, 08:39 PM

And, CNN announced that Christiane Amanpour will interview Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Anderson Cooper 360 Wednesday, Sept 26th at 10pm ET. I am waiting, I love Ms.Amanpour)

Уверен, она не будет отчитывать его как маленького мальчика как этот ректор:)

PainKiller

09-26-2007, 08:43 PM

Уверен, она не будет отчитывать его как маленького мальчика как этот ректор:)
Аманпур умненькая. Надеюсь она будет ему задавать более оригинальные вопросы. И это её не первый репортаж с Ахмаджоном, и у неё козырь-она предварительно знает своего оппонента, и уже знает как с ним вести беседу. Так как, Ахмаджон доказал на опыте что на общие вопросы он отвечает ламбадой:))) ха ха

spoon

09-26-2007, 08:52 PM

What is the fuss about Ahmadinejad and the Jewish holoucast?

During the audience, he insisted that he did not deny the Holocaust, but clarified that there should be "more research from different perspectives" on its history.

Btw, it was funny to see many demonstrations at Columbia University both pro and against him, but many protesters at the campus were predominantly of Jewish groups. And the show got ignited by highly unusual participation of the Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni.

"-- It is critical to note that this foreign national was visiting the United States on a diplomatic visa, and it behooves us to ask whether this means that there is now a different standard for some?

When partisan and uneducated individuals engage in discrimination, one dismisses them as ignorant folks, lacking familiarity with the rest of the planet.

Yet, when such behaviour occurs among educated Americans, especially as everyone from the Middle East is considered a terrorist first, we find ourselves in a danger zone.

Does this mean that an invited head of state is now a legitimate target for insults and disrespect? Even if one does not agree with Ahmadinejad, shouldn't one listen and ask intelligent questions, before rejecting presented arguments?

Sadly, hooligans attack but when a university president berates a guest for purely political reasons, it becomes an academic dressing down. In both instances, such abuses are unbecoming - perhaps more so for trained and highly educated individuals who pretend to be cultured. --"

PainKiller

09-26-2007, 09:56 PM

Well, sadly, highly anticipated Amanpour interview did not take place. Excuse me, it did but wasn't what I personally was expected. CNN just showed Christiane Amanpour, and she said she was hoping for at least half an hour interview, but Mr.Ahmedinajjads speak person contacted her today and told her that President of Iran is very tired and can answer only one question. Which they filmed and showed on tv. It was a short, 2 minute conversation. :?
Ahmedinajad said "Middle East is capable of protecting it's territory and interests itself. We do not need outside forces to interfere"

SmIlIk

09-26-2007, 11:31 PM

I am not sure If I heard it right but Bush said that UN will put harder sanctions on Iran and ask other countries to cooperate with him. Those countries who do not support Bush's policy will be sanctioned as well?

It is getting pretty darn scary. I am so sorry for ordinary people :(

ДЖИГИТ

09-27-2007, 07:08 AM

The Ultimate Con. The undebuncable video.
1 hr 54 min
The Ultimate Con

Watch the real dictatorship - America. The Revolution is coming.

9/11, why Kennedy was killed, Nazis in America, Kennedy to abolish CIA and print own money from US Treasury...

UzLand

09-27-2007, 07:43 AM

Asadbek

09-27-2007, 08:16 AM

What is the fuss about Ahmadinejad and the Jewish holoucast?

During the audience, he insisted that he did not deny the Holocaust, but clarified that there should be "more research from different perspectives" on its history.

...Ahmadinejodning aynan mana shu talabini G'arbliklar "Holocaust"ni inkor etish, deb qabul qilishmoqda...

Atrofni kuzatsangiz, 2-Jahon Urushi yillarida G'arbliklar (Cionist Yahudiy tashkilotlari, Britaniya hukumati v.b.) Yevropa yahudiylariga astoydil yordam berishmaganiga guvoh bo'lasiz.
Masalan, 1944 yilda Vengriyada Adolf Eichmann degan fashist (1962 yilda Isroilda qatl etilgan) Hitlerning ko'rsatmasiga binoan Vengriyadagi Yahudiylarga yordam berish qo'mitasi boshlig'i Brandtga 1 Million yahudiyni sotib olishni taklif qiladi. Buning uchun yahudiylardan pul emas, 10.000 dona yuk mashinasi talab qiladi va bu borada dunyo yahudiylar tashkilotlari va G'arb allianci bilan muzokara qilish uchun Brandtni Istanbulga jo'natib yuboradi.
Yahudiylar va Britaniya harbiylari Brandtni tinglab, yahudiylarga yordam berish chorasini ko'rish o'rniga, uni olib qolishadi (hibsga olish bilan teng)...
Axir, hozirda deylik Avg'onistonda o'g'irlab ketilgan 2-3 ta g'arblik uchun uning davlati necha million dollar to'lab, ozod qilvoladi...
1.000.000 yahudiyni qutqarish uchun 10.000 ta mashina...
Fashistlar G'arb allianciga u yuk mashinalarini sovetlarga qarshi urushda Sharq frontida foydalanishga va'da ham berishadi. (ular bu va'da ustidan chiqisharmidi-yo'qmi, boshqa masala. Fakt shuki, ular 1 Million yahudiyni sotishlari mumkin edi...)
Brandt qaytib kelmagach, uning yordamchisi Rudolf Kastner va Brandtning xotini pul yig'ib, 1.648 nafar Budapest yahudiylarini (Nuh kemasidagi kabi, jamiyatning har qatlami va kasbi vakillaridan ro'yxat tuzishadi) qutqarib chiqib ketishadi. Poezd avval Germaniyaga, Bergen-Belsen konclageriga boradi va bu yahudiylar u yerda 6 oy qolishadi, keyin Shveycariyaga chiqarib yuborilishadi... (bu vaqtda 300.000 dan ortiq Vengriyalik yahudiylar Birkenauda o'ldirilgan edi...)

Auschwitz-Birkenau konclagerini ham G'arb allianci ancha erta bilishgan, hatto bu konclager ustidan bir necha bor uchib o'tishgan... AQSh (va Britaniya harbiy qo'mondonligi) esa konclagerni (pechkaxonani) bombardimon qilishga samoletlar jo'natish taklif-talablarini rad etishadi (!)...

Bu ma'lumotlarni hamma joyda ham o'qib bo'lmaydi...

SmIlIk

09-27-2007, 11:14 AM

Не успеет...скоро выборы:)

Дай Бог что бы не успел. Он может "нечаянно" начать войну и следующий президент просто будет поддерживать бушмиссию.

Royal

09-27-2007, 11:24 AM

PS. Nazi Germans killed a lot of people of different ethnicities and nationalities, but you should be deaf dumb to argue that they had special hatred towards Jews.
hosh unda boshqa dindigi millatlarni nima qaybi bor ??? faqat juhudlargina jabrlangan degan gapmasku a?

bu narsa ortada ancha tortshuvlarga sababchi bogan, boladi va boladiyam....

Chunki WW2da faqatgina juhudlar qirilmaganku, shuncha Rus millati nima boladi ?
shuncha Polyak, Fratsuz, yoki Ukrainu Belorus ??? juhudlar odamu ular odammasliklari uchun qirulganlarmi ???

saaaal logika degan narsaniyam bir uzoqdan bosayam qarap qoyiyla iltimos...

dilbert

09-27-2007, 02:39 PM

Не успеет...скоро выборы:)

The flies come and go ... the poop stays the same. :cool:

melo

09-27-2007, 03:24 PM

hosh unda boshqa dindigi millatlarni nima qaybi bor ??? faqat juhudlargina jabrlangan degan gapmasku a?

bu narsa ortada ancha tortshuvlarga sababchi bogan, boladi va boladiyam....

Chunki WW2da faqatgina juhudlar qirilmaganku, shuncha Rus millati nima boladi ?
shuncha Polyak, Fratsuz, yoki Ukrainu Belorus ??? juhudlar odamu ular odammasliklari uchun qirulganlarmi ???

saaaal logika degan narsaniyam bir uzoqdan bosayam qarap qoyiyla iltimos...

I can't believe you have much evidence of French people mistreated by the Nazis that would make them comparable to other groups listed.

SAMARKANDI!

10-01-2007, 02:23 PM

And, CNN announced that Christiane Amanpour will interview Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Anderson Cooper 360 Wednesday, Sept 26th at 10pm ET. I am waiting, I love Ms.Amanpour)

One of the worst jouranlists I have ever seen. Actor of "western" media power, not a journalist.

lilbit

10-01-2007, 02:38 PM

One of the worst jouranlists I have ever seen. Actor of "western" media power, not a journalist.

SAMARKANDI, U mean Uzland? :D))))

SAMARKANDI!

10-01-2007, 02:43 PM

SAMARKANDI, U mean Uzland? :D))))

now you are playing worse, worser, worsest :D pick the best u like :)

lilbit

10-01-2007, 05:59 PM

inglisch lengvidj daid wen fist Uzbik started tolkin onit.

abcd

10-01-2007, 06:12 PM

english language is being killed.

I thought english was dead already?

UzLand

10-01-2007, 07:19 PM

inglisch lengvidj daid wen fist Uzbik started tolkin onit.

:lool: :lool: :lool:

SAMARKANDI!

10-01-2007, 08:59 PM

english language is being killed.

At least I didnt kill it, so no blame on me :D

p.s. I was trying to kick the already "dead" langauge :)

benq35

10-01-2007, 09:26 PM

Дай Бог что бы не успел. Он может "нечаянно" начать войну и следующий президент просто будет поддерживать бушмиссию.
А я всетаки торонник того что Америка уже готова к новой войне против.ннннн.-го государства..
Вы толко представте, то что война - это деньги. А деньги это благосостояние нации. нет войны - нет работы для оборонки, тысячи высоко квалифицированных безработных. в америке Армия контрактная, ребят которые вернуться с Ирака просто переведут в резерв с пенсионным содержанием.

Вы вспомните почему США стали участвовать во Второй Мировой? потому что экономика была совсем плохая и производство было низкое. Голод, люди, мафия, корупция.
Только Война помогла.

Теперь ситуация на Американском Рынке совсем плохая, на днях Канадский переплюнул Американского. Рынок недвижимости терпит не лучшие времена. Также и на рынке мебели, траснпорта и одежды - сплошной застой. Многие фирменные бренды уже прекратили своё существование.

Нам нужна Война, лет так на 5-6 может Ахмадинеждат всетаки согласиться.:D

Alee

10-02-2007, 01:23 AM

А я всетаки торонник того что Америка уже готова к новой войне против.ннннн.-го государства..
Вы толко представте, то что война - это деньги. А деньги это благосостояние нации. нет войны - нет работы для оборонки, тысячи высоко квалифицированных безработных. в америке Армия контрактная, ребят которые вернуться с Ирака просто переведут в резерв с пенсионным содержанием.

Вы вспомните почему США стали участвовать во Второй Мировой? потому что экономика была совсем плохая и производство было низкое. Голод, люди, мафия, корупция.
Только Война помогла.

Теперь ситуация на Американском Рынке совсем плохая, на днях Канадский переплюнул Американского. Рынок недвижимости терпит не лучшие времена. Также и на рынке мебели, траснпорта и одежды - сплошной застой. Многие фирменные бренды уже прекратили своё существование.

Нам нужна Война, лет так на 5-6 может Ахмадинеждат всетаки согласиться.:D
Benq, ti ne otlichaeshsya ot piyavki bolotnoy. Za schyot gibeli naroda hochesh blagoppoluchie drugogo. :beat: