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Tabriz_Han
01-11-2008, 11:06 AM
Farid Alakbarov bir Azerbaycan Turk tarihcisi, bir makalesini okurken bu forumdaki bir uyeyle ve yazinin anlatiklariyla korkunc bir benzerlik gordum.


Fear of Pan-Turkism
You won't find anything about the Turkic roots of Azerbaijani people in Soviet history books. Instead, they say that the Turks conquered Azerbaijan in the 11th-13th centuries, and that the native residents of Azerbaijan gradually switched from their ancient languages of Caucasian and Persian origin to a Turkic language. Azerbaijanis supposedly kept their blood pure and did not become Turks. Let's open "History of Azerbaijan" again (vol. 1, p.172): "The same things took place in Central Asia, where the native languages of Kharezm, Sogdiana, Baktriana and Parthea were replaced by Turkic languages.Similarly in Azerbaijan the native languages were substituted with Turkic."

Why were Soviet historians so biased against Turks? Stalin believed that Turkey would try to unite all of the Turkic nations of the world under its leadership. More than half of the territory of the USSR, including Siberia, was inhabited by various Turkic peoples, so the Soviet leaders considered Pan-Turkism to be a major threat. To prevent the Turkic peoples from uniting, Stalin ordered historians to prove that they were completely unrelated to one another, that all of them had different blood, religions and traditions. According to Soviet scholars, those peoples who spoke Turkic languages (for instance, Azerbaijanis, Uzbeks, Turkmen, and Turks) were Turkic speaking (Turkophone), but not of Turkic blood.

Beginning in 1937, the huge machine of Soviet propaganda, including history books, novels, newspapers, radio, schools and universities, spread these ideas. To be arrested as a Pan-Turkist, one had only to say "Turkic people" instead of "Azerbaijani people". Even the seventh-century Azerbaijani epic "Dada Gorgud" (The Book of my Father Gorgud) was forbidden because it was branded as Pan-Turkist literature.

Now that Azerbaijan is independent, Azerbaijanis may freely speak about their Turkic roots. Documents of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic that have now been published show that Azerbaijanis once officially called themselves Turks. For example, the chairman of the Azerbaijani Parliament, Hasan-bey Aghayev, said during the celebration of the first year of independence in 1919: "The Turkic people gained freedom by their blood and will never give up this freedom.A free Azerbaijan is an ideal that lives in the hearts of all Turkic people, from intellectuals to workers and peasants."

The debate about the role of Turkic tribes in Azerbaijan's history continues to this day. Some extreme researchers, so-called "historian-patriots", have even started to exaggerate the role of the Turks and completely deny the role of other nations, such as the Arabs, Persians and Caucasian tribes. Perhaps this is only a temporary tendency. Each historian has a right to his or her own opinion, but ideological blinders should not prevent us from seeing the real facts.

Georgia as Ally
If you open any Soviet history book, you will read that Azerbaijanis, Armenians and Georgians are brothers who have always struggled together against Persians, Arabs and Turks. According to Soviet historians, the Caucasus is like a little island surrounded by the huge ocean of the terrible Muslim world. For example, we read in "History of Azerbaijan" (vol. 1, p.120): "The hero of Azerbaijan, Babak, set up relations with Armenians who raised a rebellion. Babak helped the Armenians and overcame the Arabic troops near Sunik.The struggle of the Azerbaijanis, Georgians and Armenians against the Arabs continued even after the death of Babak.Peoples of these countries fought heroically against the enemy."

In this way, history books suggested that the Caucasian peoples of the USSR (Armenians, Georgians, as well as Lezgins and Tats) were closer to Azerbaijanis than the Arabs, Persians and Turks were. Now that Azerbaijan is independent, history has become more objective. The Caucasian friendship is not disclaimed. Yet, Azerbaijan is not a typical Caucasian state - geographically, ethnically or linguistically. Azerbaijan's scope has always extended beyond the Caucasus. Southern Azerbaijan is situated in Iran. The ethnic brothers of Azerbaijanis (such as the Turks, Turkmens and Uzbeks) also live outside the Caucasus in the waste territories of Eurasia.

Modern historical texts do stress that Georgia was a traditional ally of Azerbaijan. For example, in 1991, Aydin Balayev wrote that Georgia was a military ally of Azerbaijan during the ADR period of 1918-1920. This fact was never mentioned during the Soviet period. Besides, historians have noted that during the Middle Ages, Georgia was an ally of the Shirvanshahs in Northern Azerbaijan. The Shirvanshahs and Georgian rulers often intermarried and struggled together against various invaders.

Azerbaijani historians are also exposing some negative facts about Azerbaijan's relationship with Georgia. For example, in the 12th century, after the earthquake in Ganja, Georgians attacked and completely destroyed the city. The Azerbaijanis who had survived the earthquake were either killed or taken as slaves. During the Soviet period, only academician Ziya Bunyadov dared mention this fact; most other historians were afraid and kept silent.
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/93_folder/93_articles/93_farid_alakbarov.html


Dinliyev Stalin propogandanin kurbani.

Yazida onemli noktalar

- Azerilere Turk demek suctu
- Azeriler Turkce konusuyordu ama Turklerle hic bir alakasi yok, Turk dilli konusmalari bir tesadufdur
- Turklerin aralarinda hic bir baglanti yok
- Stalin doneminde Dede Korkut ve Turk destanlari yasaklandi
- Oguz Turklerin bir kolu oldugunu soyleyen Azeri aydinlari Pan-Turkist olarak suclanirip olduruldu

- Azerbaycanin tek dostu Gurculerdir
- Azerbaycan Gurcu, Lezgi gibidir, Turkler ve Iranlilar dusmandir
- Ama tarih gosteriyorki, Gurculer ve Turkler pek yakin degilmis

Tabriz_Han
01-11-2008, 11:07 AM
Iran and Turkey
Of course, "History of Azerbaijan" had many shortcomings, since it was written from the Communist ideological position. All historical processes were analyzed on the basis of Marxist-Leninist theory. For instance, during the Soviet period, Turkey and Iran were considered to be historical enemies of Azerbaijan. Therefore, "History of Azerbaijan" includes statements such as: "In the 17th century, Turkish troops completely destroyed and devastated Tabriz and other places of Azerbaijan...In this period Azerbaijan turned into a military theater of bloody wars between Iran and Turkey...Thousands of people were killed and turned into slaves...Azerbaijani people suffered very much!"

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/93_folder/93_photos/93_367_bunyadov.jpghttp://www.azer.com/aiweb/graphics/gifs-mixed/atransparent.gifAll wars are bloody. But what conclusion did the Soviet ideologists draw? "So, both Iran and Turkey are your enemies!" Many Azerbaijani readers did not agree with this idea. They knew that many countries of the world had fought against each other at various times. For instance, consider the various European countries that fought against each other in the past century but are not enemies today.

Left: Late Ziya Bunyadov, Historian, Orientalist and Vice President of Azerbaijan's Academy of Sciences, on the occasion of LUKoil's publishing of Bunyadov's translation of the medieval manuscripts of Jalal al Din Mankburna, last Sultan of the Dynasty of Anushtegenids. Bunyadov, a controversial figure because of his historical research and a member of Parliament, was mysteriously murdered in 1997. He is buried in Baku's "Fakri Khiyabani" (Cemetery of the Honored Ones). Photo: 1996.




Besides, in the medieval period, wars were fought between dynasties, shahs and sultans - not between nations. Russia itself invaded Azerbaijan in the 18th century, and General Zubov killed hundreds of civilians in Baku. "Why aren't the Russians considered our enemies?" many Azerbaijanis wondered.

Describing Turkey as anything other than an enemy was dangerous for Soviet-era historians, who were afraid of being labeled as "Pan-Turkists". Soviet propagandists branded some poets and intellectuals from the late 19th century and early 20th century as "Pan-Turkists" with severe consequences. For example, Ahmad Javad (1892-1937), a poet who lived during the ADR period, praised the independence of Azerbaijan in his poems and is remembered, among other things, for writing the lyrics to Azerbaijan's National Anthem. Javad was declared a Nationalist and Pan-Turkist and then shot. Salman Mumtaz was labeled as a Pan-Turkist because he wrote about Azerbaijani literature as being a part of Turkic literature. He was killed in prison by the KGB in 1938. His collection of rare ancient manuscripts that had been gathered from all over Azerbaijan was confiscated. Today these books are archived in the Institute of Manuscripts and are called the "Salman Mumtaz Collection".

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/93_folder/93_photos/93_246_history_shikhlinski.jpghttp://www.azer.com/aiweb/graphics/gifs-mixed/atransparent.gifHusein Javid (1882-1944), another intellectual who was accused of being a pan-Turkist, was a talented dramatist often called "the Shakespeare of Azerbaijan". He was arrested in 1937 and never again seen by his family. He was sent off to a Siberian labor camp, where he died and was buried. During Perestroika, in the mid-1980s, his remains were brought to Azerbaijan. Now a large monument has been raised in his honor in Nakhchivan. Recently, one of Baku's central avenues was named after him (Husein Javid Prospect). [See "The Night Father Was Arrested" by his daughter Turan Javid, in AI 4.1, p. 24, Spring 1996. See also "Aliyev Memorialized Literary Giant" in AI 4.4, p. 37, Winter 1996.]

Despite this danger, some Azerbaijani dissidents dared to object. One of them was Abulfaz Aliyev (1938-2000). More familiarly known as Elchibey [and later to become Azerbaijan's President from 1992-1993], he taught history at Azerbaijan State University. He told his students that all Turkic peoples were brothers and that Russia had conquered Azerbaijan and divided it into two parts: the northern, which was joined to Russia, and the southern, which was joined to Iran. As a result, Elchibey was arrested in the 1970s and imprisoned for two years. After Azerbaijan gained its independence in 1991, Elchibey was able to actively promote changes in historical research.


Above: Ali Agha Shikhlinski was known as the "God of Artillery" in the Russian Army. During the Soviet period, the truth about his achievements was hidden. Rather, Azerbaijan was portrayed as never having its own distinguished generals before Soviet rule. After independence in 1991, it became known that Shikhlinski was one of the most famous generals of the Tsar's Russian army and had been honored with the highest military orders of the Russian Empire-Hero of the Russian-Japanese War in 1905 and Hero of the Russian-German War in 1914.
Shikhlinski wrote textbooks on artillery for the Russian military academies.
When Azerbaijan gained its independence in 1918, he was appointed an Assistant of the Defense Ministry. When the Bolsheviks took control of the country in 1920, Narimanov is credited for saving Shikhlinski from being killed or imprisoned. Information about him was removed from historical research and textbooks.
Today, Turkey is no longer considered to be Azerbaijan's enemy. In 1991, Aydin Balayev and others wrote about Turkey's important role in helping the Azerbaijani people survive the genocide by Armenians and Bolsheviks. From 1918 to 1920, the Turkish Army of General Nuri Pasha entered Azerbaijan in an attempt to stop the murders of Azerbaijanis by Armenians. They helped the Azerbaijani government regain control of Baku and the entire territory of Azerbaijan. To reveal these facts, many historical documents were analyzed, including the official documentation of the ADR government, which had been hidden in secret archives during the Soviet period.

Once Azerbaijanis learned about Turkey's service to their country, they erected a memorial to honor the Turkish soldiers who had defended Azerbaijan. The monument, located in Baku's Shahidlar Khiyabani (Martyr's Alley), was dedicated on October 10, 1998.

Aybike
01-11-2008, 05:53 PM
woooooooooooooooooooooooooooow......
emil neden emil simdi anladim ve acidim :)

NativeAmerican
01-11-2008, 06:20 PM
propogandanin kuvveti budur...

Emil_Diniyev
01-11-2008, 06:57 PM
Gardasim onlar bizim komsularimiz.

Orta Asyadaki Kirgizmi daha yakin yoksa yani basimdaki Gurcu veya Avar/Lezgi mi?

Bu sorumu cevap verirsen artik birsey yazmiyacagim.

Aybike
01-11-2008, 07:02 PM
dur bi hosssssssssssssssssst...
gardas degil...hitab yanlis...
gardasligi sen bastan ayirdin..yok saydin...yani dimi..
benim gardasim uzaydada olsa gardasimdir..
komsu ne zamandan beri benim KARINDASIM olmus...
komsum komsum dur o kadar..

Demir Kağan
01-11-2008, 07:02 PM
Tabii ki Orta Asya'daki Kirgiz.

NativeAmerican
01-12-2008, 02:16 AM
yahu, benim Gurculer ile sorunum yok, adamlar fitne fesat degiller ama Emil iyi takmis kafayi kardeslik akrabalik ile. ne akrabaligimiz var ne kan bagimiz ama arkadasimiz olursalar fena da olmaz.
ben bu emil'in sorununu anlamadim dogru durust. cunku sorun yaptigi seyleri ilk defa duyuyorum hayatimda. yok Turkler Ermenileri Azerbaycana gondermis yok simdi Kurtleri gonderiyorlarmis yok biz kardes degilmisiz. ben taaaaaa Turkiyeden de oteden gelip "Azerbaycan Turkleri de kardesimdir" diyorum adam Turkiye'deki Turkleri bile takmiyor ki beni taksin :) cok ilginc bu adam.

Finlandiyada bile bir suru Finlandiyali var "kardes Azerbaycan" diyen (: saka degil gercek bu. Genelde dostluk spor musabakalari olur, iki ulke baskanlari bulusup konusurlar... Finlandiyada kimse Azerilerden nefret etmez hatta sever ama adam takmis Gurcu Gurcu diye (: komedi..

ulugbekTR
01-12-2008, 06:10 AM
UZAK OLUNCA KARDEŞLIKTEN CIKIYORSA
o zaman milli takım seulde demekki turkiye milli takımlıgından cıkar
veya amerikadaki turk konfederasyonu aslında turk degil
ne mantık
bu emil akp yandaşlarından heralde.
onun aslı gurcu imiş.
adamlar gurcistanı cok seviyorlar.
-------------------------------
benim sahsi duşuncem, eger işgal,i altında turk topragı varsa, agzıyla kuş tutsa ben ona kardeşim dostum demem.
gurcistan o kadar turk halkini altında tutuyorsabenim dostum olamaz.
Ben; benim kardeşimi pipene dostum demem
Ben irana, rusyaya, gurcistana, bulgara, yunana cine dostum demem.
Onların urunlerini satmam
Tavsiye etmem

Tabriz_Han
01-12-2008, 07:45 AM
Dinliyev
Gardasim onlar bizim komsularimiz.



Turkiye'de komsunuz, Iran'da Turklerde komsunuz hatta Dagistanda Kumhyk Turkleride komsunuz ama hepsini yok sayip hatta dusman bile gorup Gurcu hastasisin.

Stalinistler bunun propogandasini yaptilar, Turkleri dusman gor, Gurculeri sev, peki niye? cunku eger Turklugunu kavusa Azerbaycanin stratejik kuvveti artiyor, arkasini bolgedeki 120 milyon Turklugu alarak buyuk dusunmeye baslar. Ama Gurcistanla ugrasirsa, ancak kucuk bir bolgesel oyuncagi olur.

Gurcistan bugun Turklerin dusmanida degil onu ifade etmeliyiz, ve Turk devletler birliginde Gurcistan yer alabilir bu Gurcistan icin olumludur cunku bir yandan Rusya otur yandan Ermenistan onlari mahv etmek istiyor.

Alparslan
01-13-2008, 02:00 AM
Ya benim kafama yatmayan bir sey var, Turk olan adam binlerce yildir, yuzlerce soydur bunu bilir, yani Turk oldugunu...80 yilda mi alasagi etti bu komunistler bunu? O zaman hem onlar cok basarili hemde biz cok eksigiz demektir. Adam 80 yilda hemde yanibasimda ki Azerbaycan'dan bile TURK DEGIL AZERIYIM diyen cikartmissa...Vah ki ne vah! Acilen bence ORTAK BIR TARIH mufredati hazirlanmali. Ama bunu yapacak yonetici nerdeeeee? Hayal gibi dusunsenize mesela bundan 20 yil sonra belki yine boyle bir ortamda bir Kazakistanli Turk ile Ozbekistanli Turk ya su tarih kitabinda 57. sayfayi acsana hele ne demis orada diyecek, bir Kirim Turku gelip aciklayacak....Peh peh peh dusunmesi bile guzel...

Demir Kağan
01-13-2008, 08:42 AM
Yok aka, bilen biliyor. Mankurtlar var ya, iste onlar sorunlu biraz bu konuda.

ulugbekTR
01-14-2008, 07:54 AM
Ya benim kafama yatmayan bir sey var, Turk olan adam binlerce yildir, yuzlerce soydur bunu bilir, yani Turk oldugunu...80 yilda mi alasagi etti bu komunistler bunu? O zaman hem onlar cok basarili hemde biz cok eksigiz demektir. Adam 80 yilda hemde yanibasimda ki Azerbaycan'dan bile TURK DEGIL AZERIYIM diyen cikartmissa...Vah ki ne vah! Acilen bence ORTAK BIR TARIH mufredati hazirlanmali. Ama bunu yapacak yonetici nerdeeeee? Hayal gibi dusunsenize mesela bundan 20 yil sonra belki yine boyle bir ortamda bir Kazakistanli Turk ile Ozbekistanli Turk ya su tarih kitabinda 57. sayfayi acsana hele ne demis orada diyecek, bir Kirim Turku gelip aciklayacak....Peh peh peh dusunmesi bile guzel...
OKAM HAYALLER GERCEGIN IMBIGIDIR