Labbay, Hotin aka.. yoki matriarhat qaytib kelsaya?

[Ismoilzoda]

Assalomu alaykum azizlar.

Keyingi yillarda bir holatni ko`p kuzatmoqdamiz.
Tan olish kerak, achchiq bo`lsada, ba`zi oilalarda matriarhat hukm surmoqda.
Va bunday oilalar soni iqtisodiy tanglik davrida oshsa oshyaptiki, kamaymayapti. Demoqchi bo`lganim, erkak keraklicha pul topa olmaganidan ayollar o`zlarini tirikchilikka urib ketyaptilar va tabiiyki, oiladagi poziciyalar o`zgaryapti. Ba`zi hollarda esa radikal ravishda o`zgarishlarni ko`ryapmiz.

Ho`sh, oilada qanday kayfiyat (tuzum desam qo`pol chiqib qolarkan) hukm surishi kerak?

Patriarhat yoki matriarhat?
Bu boradagi fikrlaringiz?


.

[SAMARKANDI!]

Bunaqa paytlarda, har boshqa paytlarda hukum surush lozim bolganidek, Quron hukm surish kerek, in my view. Man has rights over Woman, Woman has rights over man. Whichever side oversteps the rights needs to be advised/corrected/punished by the other. No domination, No pressure, No superiority, just rights that were explained/given to us in Quran.

[SmIlIk]

Assalomu alaykum azizlar.

Keyingi yillarda bir holatni ko`p kuzatmoqdamiz.
Tan olish kerak, achchiq bo`lsada, ba`zi oilalarda matriarhat hukm surmoqda.
Va bunday oilalar soni iqtisodiy tanglik davrida oshsa oshyaptiki, kamaymayapti. Demoqchi bo`lganim, erkak keraklicha pul topa olmaganidan ayollar o`zlarini tirikchilikka urib ketyaptilar va tabiiyki, oiladagi poziciyalar o`zgaryapti. Ba`zi hollarda esa radikal ravishda o`zgarishlarni ko`ryapmiz.

Ho`sh, oilada qanday kayfiyat (tuzum desam qo`pol chiqib qolarkan) hukm surishi kerak?

Patriarhat yoki matriarhat?
Bu boradagi fikrlaringiz?


.

Ayol kishi pul topadimi, topmaydimi uyning erkagidan bir pog'ona past turishi kerak. Pul topayapman, deb tilni 10 qarich qilmasligi lozim.

Lekin, ayol kishining ham oilada ayri bir o'rni bo'lishi kerak. O'zaro hurmat va qanday vaziat bo'lmasin fikr almashish erkinligi sog'lom yo'lga qo'yilgan oilada, farzand tarbiyasi ham sog'lom bo'ladi. Fikrlarim patriarhatning tamoillariga to'gri kelsa ham, yuqorida aytib o'tgan hususiyatga ega bo'lgan oilalarda patriarhat/matriarhat degan terminlar ko'tarilmaydi, deb o'ylayman.

[SAMARKANDI!]

Ayol kishi pul topadimi, topmaydimi uyning erkagidan bir pog'ona past turishi kerak. Pul topayapman, deb tilni 10 qarich qilmasligi lozim.



I disagree, (my views are directed to islamic couples) Woman should not feel one step down or up, I believe this is a big mistake in our culture and in many muslim cultures if u will. Woman should feel as equal in the eyes of Allah. Because her rights give her the same rewards as the right of the man as Allah prescribed. If she obeys her husband to which is in the Quran, then she is Obeying Allah, it doesnt not mean she is one step down or she is inferior in any way, she may disobey her husband the same way to which is not in the Quran or Sunnah. The same thing with the husband he should not feel he is one step up or down. His rights equally carries the same weight as the rights of the woman in terms of importance and reward. In my opinion this is the equality in Islam.

But I agree that neither man nor woman should rebuke his/her partner for the money he/she makes and shares.

p.s. In other words no patriarhat yoki matriarhat.

[SmIlIk]

I disagree, (my views are directed to islamic couples) Woman should not feel one step down or up, I believe this is a big mistake in our culture and in many muslim cultures if u will. Woman should feel as equal in the eyes of Allah. Because her rights give her the same rewards as the right of the man as Allah prescribed. If she obeys her husband to which is in the Quran, then she is Obeying Allah, it doesnt not mean she is one step down or she is inferior in any way, she may disobey her husband the same way to which is not in the Quran or Sunnah. The same thing with the husband he should not feel he is one step up or down. His rights equally carries the same weight as the rights of the woman in terms of importance and reward. In my opinion this is the equality in Islam.

But I agree neither man nor woman should rebuke his/her partner for the money he/she makes and shares.

If you look at being "bir pag'ona past" as lesser in rights, I look at it as being respectively obedient. If you translate obedient (submissive to the will of another, submissive to the restraint or command of authority) to uzbek language, you will actually come across with harsher approaches twoards women, than "bir pog'ona past". What I mean by bir pag'ona past is: Kerak joyda gap gapirish, o'rinsiz va qo'pol ravshda gap qaytarmaslik. Shu yo'l bilan oilada kelib chiqishi mumkin bo'lgan nizolarning oldini olish.

In Islam male is given bigger responsibilities than female. Of course, this doesn't make female less in charge of the family, But given the situation, male is the one to carry out major decisions and stand behind them.

[SAMARKANDI!]

If you look at being "bir pag'ona past" as lesser in rights, I look at it as being respectively obedient. If you translate obedient to uzbek language, you will actually come across with harsher approaches twoards women, than "bir pog'ona past". What I mean by bir pag'ona past is: Kerak joyda gap gapirish, o'rinsiz va qo'pol ravshda gap qaytarmaslik. Shu yo'l bilan oilada kelib chiqishi mumkin bo'lgan nizolarning oldini olish.

It is not about me, its about the majority, how would the majority understand this "one step down" phrase. I just wanted to make it clear with my own view. But on the other hand you should have also mentioned that man should feel one step down as well, if the meaning you give to it is as such, because man should also "Kerak joyda gap gapirish, o'rinsiz va qo'pol ravshda gap qaytarmaslik. Shu yo'l bilan oilada kelib chiqishi mumkin bo'lgan nizolarning oldini olish". Or you should have also said woman should also feel one step up in certain situations for instance woman should respectively disobey (be one step up) if husband asks her to go out half naked.


In Islam male is given bigger responsibilities than female. Of course, this doesn't make female less in charge of the family, But given the situation, male is the one to carry out major decisions and stand behind them.

I disagree again, I dont think man has bigger or smaller responsibilities. I strongly believe man and woman has equally heavy, equally important, equally bigger responsibilities in the eyes of Allah. Thats why Allah said, rephrasing it,"they differ only in their piety and goodness". Major decisions are/should be made by the agreement of both sides, I my view, be it political, global or merital issue. I think people have such beliefs cuz our Islamic books and views are almost completely presented by males. I think we need strong females scholars and female input not crossing the limits of Quran and Sunnah.

[lost]

iyyeee otta boks bo'votti, silani mavzularizzi qarela. patriyarxatde kanishna :D

Qani! hamma o'zini ishiga! Xotiiiieeeen, chioyni obke buyaqqa!

[Пушкарева]

The should be balance and understanding in a family.

[SmIlIk]

It is not about me, its about the majority, how would the majority understand this "one step down" phrase. I just wanted to make it clear with my own view. But on the other hand you should have also mentioned that man should feel one step down as well, if the meaning you give to it is as such, because man should also "Kerak joyda gap gapirish, o'rinsiz va qo'pol ravshda gap qaytarmaslik. Shu yo'l bilan oilada kelib chiqishi mumkin bo'lgan nizolarning oldini olish". Or you should have also said woman should also feel one step up in certain situations for instance woman should respectively disobey (be one step up) if husband asks her to go out half naked.



Men umumiy olib gapirdim. Oilada kelib chiqishi mumkin bo'lgan vaziyatlarni birma bir taxlil qilayotgan bo'lganimizda, dona-dona qilib tushuntirardim.


I disagree again, I dont think man has bigger or smaller responsibilities. I strongly believe man and woman has equally heavy, equally important, equally bigger responsibilities in the eyes of Allah. Thats why Allah said, rephrasing it,"they differ only in their piety and goodness". Major decisions are/should be made by the agreement of both sides, I my view, be it political, global or merital issue. I think people have such beliefs cuz our Islamic books and views are almost completely presented by males. I think we need strong females scholars and female input not crossing the limits of Quran and Sunnah.

If man didn't have bigger responsibilities (deciding on behalf of whole family when needed) women wouldn't be ordered to obey their husbands in many respects.

What you are talking about is an issue which is not the concern of this topic. If you pay close attention to my first answer, I gave answer to both financial superiority issue in the family (pul topish va gerdayish) as well as mutual respect and mutual responsibility of husband and wife.

I am not sure if you are married, but looking at my parents and my own family, I can fully say that I have the freedom I need (as my mother) and respect I deserve. I am aware of my islamic and human rights which by no means were ever broken. None of the decisions ever passed me by without being presented to my attention and vise versa. But to have all that I am by no means claiming to my husband that I have equal rights as him. We do not speak of rights and equality/men vs. women. It all comes naturally and mostly because of bigger patients of female half of my family.

To make long story short, All I am trying to say is that women should know when to step back in case there is a tension in the air. What kind of tension? It may depend.

[SmIlIk]

SAMARKANDI!,

Indeed there are some very strong female scholars of Islam. One of them is Proxorova Valeria. If you have a chance, read a bit about her and her work. For those who want to learn more about Islam in russian she is a great help.

[Glance]

Ayol kishi pul topadimi, topmaydimi uyning erkagidan bir pog'ona past turishi kerak. Pul topayapman, deb tilni 10 qarich qilmasligi lozim.

Lekin, ayol kishining ham oilada ayri bir o'rni bo'lishi kerak. O'zaro hurmat va qanday vaziat bo'lmasin fikr almashish erkinligi sog'lom yo'lga qo'yilgan oilada, farzand tarbiyasi ham sog'lom bo'ladi. Fikrlarim patriarhatning tamoillariga to'gri kelsa ham, yuqorida aytib o'tgan hususiyatga ega bo'lgan oilalarda patriarhat/matriarhat degan terminlar ko'tarilmaydi, deb o'ylayman.

'Patmatriarhat' :mrgreen:

[kitayoza]

'Patmatriarhat' :mrgreen:

Buni teng huquqli boshqaruv deyiladi honim.:D
Bizda "patriarhat-monarhiya" tuzumi.:lol:

[Gareeb]

Smilik turmushga chiqib aaancha o'zgargansiz, oldinlari feministka, kareristka edingiz hozir esa risoladagidek uy bekasiga aylangansiz.:D



Menimcha erning zabardastligini saqlagan holda ayol kishining ham munosib o'rni bo'lishi kerak. Islom ko'rsatmalariga amal qilib yashasak hammasi go'zal bo'ladi,xullas.

[satik]

erkak erkakligini qilishi kerak.
yani, agar erkak tom ma'nodagi oila boshlig'i bo'la olsa, Hotinboyakasiniyam hapa qimagan holatta oiladagi muvozanatni ushlab turolledi.

[Lopiddin]

I disagree, (my views are directed to islamic couples) Woman should not feel one step down or up, I believe this is a big mistake in our culture and in many muslim cultures if u will. Woman should feel as equal in the eyes of Allah. Because her rights give her the same rewards as the right of the man as Allah prescribed. If she obeys her husband to which is in the Quran, then she is Obeying Allah, it doesnt not mean she is one step down or she is inferior in any way, she may disobey her husband the same way to which is not in the Quran or Sunnah. The same thing with the husband he should not feel he is one step up or down. His rights equally carries the same weight as the rights of the woman in terms of importance and reward. In my opinion this is the equality in Islam.

But I agree that neither man nor woman should rebuke his/her partner for the money he/she makes and shares.

p.s. In other words no patriarhat yoki matriarhat.


will u tell me, why are women created?
& how are they created?

[kitayoza]

Sharqiy Turkistondagi ayollar hech mahal o'z erini "ho'jayin" deb atashmaydi. Bunday lafz bilan eriga murojat qilishlik uyg'ur ayollarining dostoensvalarini erga urish bilan baravar ekan. Shunga bizning o'zbek ayollarimizga afsuslik bilan nazar tashlashadi.
Ammo bizda hech kim bunday hayolga bormaydi. Balki hojayin maqomidan bo'gan eriga itoat qilishda hotinning asl saodati ekanligini yaxshi tushunishadi.

Bu juda go'zal hislat. Ammo o'zbek erlarning orasida shundaylar ham borki, o'z ayoliga nisbatdan "ho'jayin" degan iborani qo'llashadi. Bunaqa erkakni nima deb nomlasa bo'ladi?!:D

[Пушкарева]

Bir-ikki tomchi uygur qonim bor. Shuninchun harakterim bunaqa ekande (erkelaga nisbatan submissive category bolomiman/qorqmiman)? :lol: Endi chundim.


Sharqiy Turkistondagi ayollar hech mahal o'z erini "ho'jayin" deb atashmaydi. Bunday lafz bilan eriga murojat qilishlik uyg'ur ayollarining dostoensvalarini erga urish bilan baravar ekan. Shunga bizning o'zbek ayollarimizga afsuslik bilan nazar tashlashadi.
Ammo bizda hech kim bunday hayolga bormaydi. Balki hojayin maqomidan bo'gan eriga itoat qilishda hotinning asl saodati ekanligini yaxshi tushunishadi.

Bu juda go'zal hislat. Ammo o'zbek erlarning orasida shundaylar ham borki, o'z ayoliga nisbatdan "ho'jayin" degan iborani qo'llashadi. Bunaqa erkakni nima deb nomlasa bo'ladi?!:D

[UdachnicK]

matriarhatlar ko'payishiga uzb.yoshlari, bo'lajak kuyovto'ralarni fikrlashlari sabab bo'ladi.
Baquvvat joydan uylangisi keladi, kimsan Palonchakani kuyovi bo'gisi keladi, qaynota kuyov janvarga moshin, uy, hamma sharoitni qiberadi. Ana undan keyin lyuboy hotinam, HOTINAKAga aylanadi :lol:
imho

[Пушкарева]

A man shu hayronman, jamiatimiz qatga qarab ketvotti, esli bolla (erkela) po raschotu jenyatsya? Ahir erkak san, ti doljen sam vsego v jizni dobivatsya, stroit i najivat dobro, a ne za schot jenshini vsem obzavoditsya. Togda dlya takih erkakov imeetsya inoy definition.

I might be wrong, but I never understood marriages for the sake of profit making, neither girls' pursuing her own material benefits, nu i tem bolee, kogda tak delayut parni.

I dont know: maybe I have too idealistic life perception.


matriarhatlar ko'payishiga uzb.yoshlari, bo'lajak kuyovto'ralarni fikrlashlari sabab bo'ladi.
Baquvvat joydan uylangisi keladi, kimsan Palonchakani kuyovi bo'gisi keladi, qaynota kuyov janvarga moshin, uy, hamma sharoitni qiberadi. Ana undan keyin lyuboy hotinam, HOTINAKAga aylanadi :lol:
imho

[kitayoza]

A man shu hayronman, jamiatimiz qatga qarab ketvotti, esli bolla (erkela) po raschotu jenyatsya? Ahir erkak san, ti doljen sam vsego v jizni dobivatsya, stroit i najivat dobro, a ne za schot jenshini vsem obzavoditsya. Togda dlya takih erkakov imeetsya inoy definition.



To'g'ri aytasiz Nezabudkahon. Bizning ko'pkina erkaklar o'z erkaklik vazifasini umuman esdan chiqarishgan. Erkaklikni ular faqat baqirishda, buyruq berishda va yana ba'zi masalalarda bildirib turishadi.
Mana masalan Hitoyga ham ko'pkina biznesmenlar qatorida biznesmenkalar ham qatnashadi.
Bir kuni bir hoji akamiz bilan birga oshxonada o'tiruvdik. Bir o'zbek ayoli telefonda O'zbekiston bilan gaplashyapti.
"Hoy ho'jayin. Yana nima olib keliy" degan edi. Bizning hoji akamiz:
"E ho'jayin bo'mey....:evil:" devordide.
"Hoji aka>!:shock: Nima bo'ldi" deb so'radik.
"E bu qanaqa ho'jayin. Bu ho'jayin emas, DAYYUS bu!!! O'z ayolini ham tirikchilkik qilish uchun chet elga yuboradimi? Bu erkak emas, hotinchalish, dayyus" degandilar.

Shunaqalar hozir juda ko'p.

[sherbola]

Samarqandi oka, ayollar va erkaklar teng huquqli deb bilib-bilmay Allohning gapiga qarshi gap aytib qo'ymang. Ayollarga - onalarimizga, turmush o'rtoq(lar)imizga, opalarimiz va singillarimizga bo'lgan hurmatingizni ko'rsatmoqchisiz va jamiyatda va oilada adolatni xohlaysiz -- buniyatingiz juda ham a'lo va qadrli. Lekin, adolatga Eng Odil Alloh ("Al-Adl") o'rnatgan qonun-qoidalarni buzib erishib bo'lmaydi. Maslahatim, Allohning o'sha Muborak Kalomi "Qur'on"ning Niso, Moida, Oli Imron, Baqara suralarida va yana boshqa suralarda buyurgan ayollarga nisbatan hukm va ko'rsatmalarini yaxshilab tahlil qiling va yordam kerak bo'lsa, eng yaqin masjiddagi bir ilmli yaxshi imomning maslahatini oling.

Alloh "bir pog'ona past" bilan nimani nazarda tutganini o'shanda bilib olasiz.

Alloh barchamizni to'g'ri yo'lda saqlasin va bilib-bilmay Uning hukmidan adashib noto'g'ri gapirib qo'yishdan saqlasin.

http://www.pccmuslims.org/library/quraanuz/ -- Qur'on Karim ma'nolarining O'zbekcha tarjimasi. by Alouddin Mansur.

It is not about me, its about the majority, how would the majority understand this "one step down" phrase. I just wanted to make it clear with my own view. But on the other hand you should have also mentioned that man should feel one step down as well, if the meaning you give to it is as such, because man should also "Kerak joyda gap gapirish, o'rinsiz va qo'pol ravshda gap qaytarmaslik. Shu yo'l bilan oilada kelib chiqishi mumkin bo'lgan nizolarning oldini olish". Or you should have also said woman should also feel one step up in certain situations for instance woman should respectively disobey (be one step up) if husband asks her to go out half naked.



I disagree again, I dont think man has bigger or smaller responsibilities. I strongly believe man and woman has equally heavy, equally important, equally bigger responsibilities in the eyes of Allah. Thats why Allah said, rephrasing it,"they differ only in their piety and goodness". Major decisions are/should be made by the agreement of both sides, I my view, be it political, global or merital issue. I think people have such beliefs cuz our Islamic books and views are almost completely presented by males. I think we need strong females scholars and female input not crossing the limits of Quran and Sunnah.

[insider]

there is no such a things as patriahart - matriahart.
There is an islamic way of treating your wife, there is an islamic way of treating your husband. No word is powerful enough to describe this.
Oilada har kim uzini joyini bilib muomala qilishi ham ibodat.

[Uzbekxonim]

menimcha O'zbek oilalarda hech patriarhat yoq, ahir erkak kishiga boshini brainwash qiladigan ayol-ku, erkak esa bu fikrni/qarorni men o'zim topdim deb yururadi... :)
menimcha na matriarhat na patriarhat yahshi, consensus should prevail.

[crescent]

Matriarxatga umuman qarshiman! Lekin Patriarxat deyishsa eski Feodalism davrlarini eslatib yuboradi. Shuning uchun teng huquqlilikni tanladim. Aslida esa teng huquqlilik bilan Patriarxat o'rtasida bir level bo'lsa o'shani tanlardim.

[~Atirgul~]

Manimcha matriorahat deganda eri uyda o'tiradi bola boqib hotini esa ishlab pul topib keladi, shunga etilsa kerak. Patriorhat deganda esa teskarisi. Patriorhat bo'lsa ayolning huquqlari pymol etiladi degan emas, prosto asosiy rozg'orning yukini erkaklar o'z bo'yniga oladi deb tushunaman.

[fidis]

hehe...i like this video

PS: Imomlarga va o'ta uyatchanlar ko'rmasin.

YouTube - How to Shower: Women vs. Men

[Compromise]

Assalomu alaikum wa rahmatullohu wa barakatuh
Islomiy ahloq ila, erkak ayol bir biriga go'zal munosabtda, hurmat bilan qarashsa inshaAlloh bunday Patriarhat, matriarthat degan gaplar chimaydi.
Mana bu yerda uzr Ingliz tilida shu mavzuga bogliq maruzalar bor eshitsangizlar foydadan holi bo'lmaydi ;)
Erkaklar uchun
YouTube - 60 ways to keep your wife's love

Ayollar uchun
YouTube - Muslim Family Series/Wife's duty toward her husband in Islam

Hurmatlar ila,
Compromise
assalomu alaikum