How much do u know about Greece?

[El Greco]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

[Frida]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

there were many Greeks in Tashkent (during soviet times), I am not sure how they got there. :)

what do i know about Greece??? lemme think.

They speak Greek, and there are two dialects of Greek, as far as I know one is preferred by democrats the second by conservatives (this might have happened centuries ago:D, but that is the thing that came to my mind :), if i am wrong i am sorry)

Cyprus and all the related problems.

Orthodox church and all the Saints you guys believe in, why do you have so many?

what else..... feta cheese, olives, greek salad, gyro, dolmades, mousakka....

names that end with -potus, -us, -is, -exis, -illa

oh, and then that song, they sing in weddings. i do not know the name.

[El Greco]

there were many Greeks in Tashkent (during soviet times), I am not sure how they got there. :)

what do i know about Greece??? lemme think.

They speak Greek, and there are two dialects of Greek, as far as I know one is preferred by democrats the second by conservatives (this might have happened centuries ago:D, but that is the thing that came to my mind :), if i am wrong i am sorry)

Cyprus and all the related problems.

Orthodox church and all the Saints you guys believe in, why do you have so many?

what else..... feta cheese, olives, greek salad, gyro, dolmades, mousakka....

names that end with -potus, -us, -is, -exis, -illa

oh, and then that song, they sing in weddings. i do not know the name.

Greeks who were located in Tashkent and in U-stan in general, where moved by Soviets and most of them were political refuges to S.U after Greek civil war ended in 1948.

Today there r 3 dialects of Greek. 1st New Greek Common, 2nd Cypriot, 3rd Pontish or Pontic(pontiaka)
I see u are aware about Greek cusine!:D

Go ahead say whatever u know,share yr knowledge with others, help to built relations among our nations! Don't hesitate if u don't know much.

[El Greco]

I forgot to mention Grecanica another dialect of Greek, spoken in Central - South Italy

[Qarama]

my grandparents used to live in Thessaloniki, but after the war they had to move to Turkey. And they knew a greek dialect which we call "rumca" (roumcha).

they said "pidomou kala" to me or "posesi kala esi?" :D

[El Greco]

When visited U-stan and went to National archeological and historical Museum, i saw ancient status arround 100 b.c, very much alike to greek status. I recognised the art in theese as Greek influence. I did a little research after going back to my country. Alexander the Great had been the first to cross over the area of nowdays U-stan, a passage to the famous road of silk. He, after conquered the country, left some of his people back and established cities that gave greek names. For more than 200 years a huge area of T-stan,U-stan,A-stan etc, was under control of the successors of Alexander. They ruled very succesfully with the spirit of equality and justice of greek coultoure.They had been a relief for the people's of the area if somebody consider how hard their life was under the Persian domination.
Some say that even Roxana, the wife of Alexander, was from territory near today's Samarkand.

[ikbaljohn]

учтепада,ватан кинотеатрига якин жойдеги анор кафесида битта миллати грек официантка ишлайди :d
греция футбол тжсини устози отто рехагель.
хозирча шу билганларим

[El Greco]

my grandparents used to live in Thessaloniki, but after the war they had to move to Turkey. And they knew a greek dialect which we call "rumca" (roumcha).

they said "pidomou kala" to me or "posesi kala esi?" :D

Rumca is Greek that Turks of Greece used to speak and i think it is still spoken in Turkey in many towns and cities that sheltered people after population exchange.
Thanks for yr post my friend. Don't forget that no nation has the war or conflect in its blood. We can be friends no matter the past,respecting each other's rights and dominance in our own countries.:)

[El Greco]

учтепада,ватан кинотеатрига якин жойдеги анор кафесида битта миллати грек официантка ишлайди :d
греция футбол тжсини устози отто рехагель.
хозирча шу билганларим

I do not quite speak russian or uzbek, so if u be kind, post yr replies in english:D

[infolife]

I have a greek friend in my course who is very hot-tempered.I hear greeks are usually hot tempered though:D. And they hate turks for lots of reasons I beleive. I dont fully know that bit of history yet.

There has been a huge ethnic cleansing as a peace settlement after the last Turk-Greece war. However, I beleive greeks and turks have been integrated a lot into each others community and have closer relationship. Therefore these two nations look alike.

Religionwise, strongly orthodox christian.People tend to have big families and established family values are seen very much compared to the rest of EU.

Language, I only know that ancient Greek is taught at schools compulsory but people speak modern greek language.Nothing about dialects you mentioned.

[El Greco]

I have a greek friend in my course who is very hot-tempered.I hear greeks are usually hot tempered though:D. And they hate turks for lots of reasons I beleive. I dont fully know that bit of history yet.

There has been a huge ethnic cleansing as a peace settlement after the last Turk-Greece war. However, I beleive greeks and turks have been integrated a lot into each others community and have closer relationship. Therefore these two nations look alike.

Religionwise, strongly orthodox christian.People tend to have big families and established family values are seen very much compared to the rest of EU.

Language, I only know that ancient Greek is taught at schools compulsory but people speak modern greek language.Nothing about dialects you mentioned.

We do not hate Turks not at least anymore. Maybe in the past, due to wars. Societies in both countries have changed a lot since that time and scorred serious progress.

[Qarama]

what i can say is that in every nation ultra nationalists or racists exist which is normal.

[El Greco]

I have some photos from Greece especially for yr eyes only!:D

[El Greco]

More of Greece

[El Greco]

More of Greece part 2

[infolife]

We do not hate Turks not at least anymore. Maybe in the past, due to wars. Societies in both countries have changed a lot since that time and scorred serious progress.

Well, my friend does. We have lots of greeks here and most of them anti turk from what I gather in coversing with them.

Nevertheless, I am indeed very happy to read your statement above:)

ps:do you work for some kind of tourist company by the way?

[El Greco]

More of Greece part 3

[El Greco]

Well, my friend does. We have lots of greeks here and most of them anti turk from what I gather in coversing with them.

Nevertheless, I am indeed very happy to read your statement above:)

ps:do you work for some kind of tourist company by the way?

Thanks for yr comments! Hehehe, i do not work in tourist bussiness.:D My purpose was to show to people that are interested the beauty of Greece

[El Greco]

More of Greece part 4

[InnamoratoPazzo]

My Greek friend says that Greek is the most difficult language in the world :-)

I am a fan of everything related to Ancient Greece and its History. I also read Anabasis by Xenophon, amazing book! Iliad, Odyssey, variuos legends...

I also know that so-called "macedonians" are trying to claim your history, that's ridiculous :eyecrazy:

And I hope to visit your beautiful country sometime in the future!

[El Greco]

My Greek friend says that Greek is the most difficult language in the world :-)

I am a fan of everything related to Ancient Greece and its History. I also read Anabasis by Xenophon, amazing book! Iliad, Odyssey, variuos legends...

I also know that so-called "macedonians" are trying to claim your history, that's ridiculous :eyecrazy:

And I hope to visit your beautiful country sometime in the future!

Thanks for yr comments! Indid Greek is perhaps the most dificult mother tongue in the world but also the most poetic. What can i say! Keep reading u r in good way. Have u read Aristoteles or Platon? U should.
"I also know that so-called "macedonians" are trying to claim your history, that's ridiculous :eyecrazy:" I gave my answer in another thread i'm sure u have read it. No hard feelings for the neighbours,trueth is trueth and shall light like the sun in the noon. History will judge all of us.
You are all welcome to Greece!:)

[El Greco]

By the way Happy Valentine's day to all of you people!

[InnamoratoPazzo]

Have u read Aristoteles or Platon? U should.


Yea, Im already on this way, I mean Im about to read them. I used to read some of their short masterpieces before.
Soon Im gonna read "Timaeus" and "Critias".

the problem is that their language is so difficult to follow, I mean they r written in archaic style.:D but that's not gonna stop me anyway!

[infolife]

btw, I forgot to mention, greeks dont seem to get on well with albanians and apparently albanians in Greece are treated like second class citizens. Is that true?

[InnamoratoPazzo]

thanks for your answers El Greco!

What is the average salary in Greece?
Do you have a migration to more prosperous countries like Germany, UK...?

[El Greco]

btw, I forgot to mention, greeks dont seem to get on well with albanians and apparently albanians in Greece are treated like second class citizens. Is that true?

Look with albanians has been a misunderstanding. I mean when in 1990 communism collapsed in Albania, prisons in Albania, released the detainees. All theese nice and peacefull people crossed the borders before we notice. The result was to continue their criminal actions in Greece. Many Greek people had lost their lives for just 500 drachmas which is 1,5 euro. If you imagine the picture in local media to speak about Albanians all the time and the most recent killings, what do u think?! People were angry with them.
Years by years , the situation changed and those bad guys are in the place they belong prison.

[El Greco]

thanks for your answers El Greco!

What is the average salary in Greece?
Do you have a migration to more prosperous countries like Germany, UK...?
Today there is migration towards greece my friend because life quality here is better than countries u name.
Average salary depends, i can tell 800-850 euro for non specialised worker(5days - 8 hours)
But u have to take under mind the general cost of living which is a lot more down to earth compare to rest western countries

[fidis]

my teacher at school was Greek. though she left Tashkent a couple of years ago.

she was a daughter of one of those refugees you talked about. many of them left u-tan in the end of 1950s i guess, btu there were also many that remained there.

I play Malaka very often. :D

And I proposed once to a Greek girl after having some Greek food, well, i was also a bit drunk from ouzo.

so far from me :D

[El Greco]

At this point i say Goodnight!
Gr time 21:24
Ooops i'm late! She is gonna kill me)))

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
For more than 200 years a huge area of T-stan,U-stan,A-stan etc, was under control of the successors of Alexander. They ruled very succesfully with the spirit of equality and justice of greek coultoure.They had been a relief for the people's of the area if somebody consider how hard their life was under the Persian domination.


Alexander the Great like Ghenghiz Kagan was one of the great conquerers. Millitarilly they were incredible, however, trying to present them as humanists is a little far fetched to say the least. They were more interested in annihalating enemies and being feared rulers instead of what we today consider to be "civillised".

They didn't rule particularly sucessfully, their descendants squabled over their fathers land, within a few centuries they had destroyed themselves and their states collapsed.

O'zbekistans history has a legacy in Greece aswell :)

[El Greco]

Alexander the Great like Ghenghiz Kagan was one of the great conquerers. Millitarilly they were incredible, however, trying to present them as humanists is a little far fetched to say the least. They were more interested in annihalating enemies and being feared rulers instead of what we today consider to be "civillised".

They didn't rule particularly sucessfully, their descendants squabled over their fathers land, within a few centuries they had destroyed themselves and their states collapsed.

O'zbekistans history has a legacy in Greece aswell :)

My dear friend,maybe in some points u r right. I will agree with u that successors of Alexander were not like him strong personalities.They left themselves to be occupied by egoism and soon after the death of Alexander, began fight among them, to finally succeed to divide empire in parts.
But the legacy that the great man gave them, was to order peoples with spirit of equality and justice.This is prooved by the last words(we can say will)of Alexander to his generals,words that have remain to us upon now,because general Parmenion had recorded to paper.
The strugle of Alexander was not against the nations.

[El Greco]

Alexander the Great like Ghenghiz Kagan was one of the great conquerers. Millitarilly they were incredible, however, trying to present them as humanists is a little far fetched to say the least. They were more interested in annihalating enemies and being feared rulers instead of what we today consider to be "civillised".

They didn't rule particularly sucessfully, their descendants squabled over their fathers land, within a few centuries they had destroyed themselves and their states collapsed.

O'zbekistans history has a legacy in Greece aswell :)

One of the main contribution of Alexander's expedition to the coultoure of the area that still remains is that peoples still remember this great man.
He encouraged art and trade and he practically open the road that we today know as "silk road". He also encouraged the peoples of the areas he ruled to absorb Greek thought.He did not made any discrimination between greeks and "others",by national orientation. He used to say everybody is greek if he has the same education as we have.

[Black]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

[El Greco]

what i can say is that in every nation ultra nationalists or racists exist which is normal.

Neither the war expedition to Minor Asia (modern Turkey) was right and justified it was a clear militaristic move, but neither the slutter of 3.000.000 people(most of them Greeks but also Armenians) was justified or right or needed. Theese crimes happened in a period of time where entire world was in a phace of ethnicism and darkness.
The sad thing is to see that today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods.

[El Greco]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

What exactly do u mean by saying "M word"?

[El Greco]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

Swear is prohibited by Christian religion. I think in Muslim too.

[Black]

What exactly do u mean by saying "M word"?
Let us not to use this word here. If you are a Greek from the Greece, then you know it very well.
Swear is prohibited by Christian religion. I think in Muslim too.

Oh, well, did I say those guys were practising Cristians? I didn't know even whether they believe in God. Of course, there were few nice guys as well, Intellegent, behaved well, we used to talk a lot with these guys (actually I remember two of them). The other guys were not bad as well, they all were OK, but used to swear each other very much. I think they simply get used to that word, like Americans get used to "F" word. And they (some of them) used to mock others, especially chinise guys. They did much noise, they behaved as if everywhere they go is their home and can shout as much as they want.
Overall, they were not that bad guys, except their noises. : )

[Qarama]

Neither the war expedition to Minor Asia (modern Turkey) was right and justified it was a clear militaristic move, but neither the slutter of 3.000.000 people(most of them Greeks but also Armenians) was justified or right or needed. Theese crimes happened in a period of time where entire world was in a phace of ethnicism and darkness.
The sad thing is to see that today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods.

3.000.000 people? :?
today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods :?І

i don't think you are right but i think it will be better if we don't speak about turco-greek wars or that kind of things trust me :rolleyes:


i like greek music. for example "gianna terzi - pou kai pou" or "Sarmpel - Sokolata". I was in Greece last summer and in Thessaloniki it is a beautiful city.

[Demir Kağan]

Turk and Greek culture is really very close after hundreds of years that we lived together in.

Welcome, man! :)

[Kaptan-i Derya]

Neither the war expedition to Minor Asia (modern Turkey) was right and justified it was a clear militaristic move, but neither the slutter of 3.000.000 people....

:rolleyes:

[El Greco]

3.000.000 people? :?
today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods :?І

i don't think you are right but i think it will be better if we don't speak about turco-greek wars or that kind of things trust me :rolleyes:


i like greek music. for example "gianna terzi - pou kai pou" or "Sarmpel - Sokolata". I was in Greece last summer and in Thessaloniki it is a beautiful city.

I understand. This is so dificult matter and we are not the most quallified to speak about.I mean that whatever happened should stay in the past and not poison relations among two countries forever.
We have many things in common. Lets focus on them, so i agree with u.
If u notice i judge first greek leadership of that time

[El Greco]

Turk and Greek culture is really very close after hundreds of years that we lived together in.

Welcome, man! :)

Approved!:)

[El Greco]

3.000.000 people? :?
today the persons who were reponsible are beeing worship as they were Gods :?І

i don't think you are right but i think it will be better if we don't speak about turco-greek wars or that kind of things trust me :rolleyes:


i like greek music. for example "gianna terzi - pou kai pou" or "Sarmpel - Sokolata". I was in Greece last summer and in Thessaloniki it is a beautiful city.

You are always welcome to Greece! If people here would like, i could upload some songs for those who like greek music

[El Greco]

My Greek coursemates used to say: A Rich Greek sends his son to study to the US, middle class to the UK and the wise ones remain in Greece to study. Something similar. And they used to swear ("M" word) too much.

OK i got it!:lol: To me also brakes my nervs when i hear that M.
I think you choosed wrong word (swear):)

[El Greco]

my teacher at school was Greek. though she left Tashkent a couple of years ago.

she was a daughter of one of those refugees you talked about. many of them left u-tan in the end of 1950s i guess, btu there were also many that remained there.

I play Malaka very often. :D

And I proposed once to a Greek girl after having some Greek food, well, i was also a bit drunk from ouzo.

so far from me :D

Most of the greeks of U-stan left during late 80's and in the beginning of 90's, because Greek goverment gave them serious advantages if they would decide to return in motherland.
In my last travel i met a greekman in Samarkand tottaly accidentall. Man, he was so happy, i never forget him

[Qarama]

You are always welcome to Greece! If people here would like, i could upload some songs for those who like greek music

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

[Maroon]

I went to Greece twice. It was wonderful! I love it!

[El Greco]

I went to Greece twice. It was wonderful! I love it!

Did you go as a tourist or invited as guest by someone? And which places did you visit?

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

Hey guys u r doing great work! :D

[Uzbekxonim]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

don't want to be mean, why would you care about our knowledge of the role of Greece in the history of Uzbekistan? I understand some people in religious board that want to educate some 'uneducated' persons, but what is your aim with this thread?
ps. no offence, just curious
ps.2 smhow i dont like Greeks verry much

[El Greco]

don't want to be mean, why would you care about our knowledge of the role of Greece in the history of Uzbekistan? I understand some people in religious board that want to educate some 'uneducated' persons, but what is your aim with this thread?
ps. no offence, just curious
ps.2 smhow i dont like Greeks verry much

Well, i just thought it is nice idea to put some tiny little stone in Uzbek-Greek relations and help your people to learn about my country and our people about your country. Of course anybody can say No, we are democrats!:)

[Demir Kağan]

Let me ask you something. What do you know about Uzbek Turks & Turks of Turkey? :D

[Uzbekxonim]

Well, i just thought it is nice idea to put some tiny little stone in Uzbek-Greek relations and help your people to learn about my country and our people about your country. Of course anybody can say No, we are democrats!:)

so u r Greek :lol:
no more comment then, u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:
ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?

[El Greco]

don't want to be mean, why would you care about our knowledge of the role of Greece in the history of Uzbekistan? I understand some people in religious board that want to educate some 'uneducated' persons, but what is your aim with this thread?
ps. no offence, just curious
ps.2 smhow i dont like Greeks verry much

Besides, i strongly believe two nations have many things in common not only history but also food,music,people that lived in U-stan and miss it, and many other

[El Greco]

Let me ask you something. What do you know about Uzbek Turks & Turks of Turkey? :D

Not much really. I would be delighted to learn

[El Greco]

so u r Greek :lol:
no more comment then, u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:
ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?

"ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?[/quote]"

That's the nice thing about internet! You can join greek forums too.
Can you express more detailed why u don't like greek people?
No i don't date an Uzbek girl:)

[El Greco]

so u r Greek :lol:
no more comment then, u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:
ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?

"u-Greeks like to argue so much, and your understanding of democracy is equal to egoism, how do u like my knowledge about Greeks? :lol:"

I disagree with u as far as it has to do with our view of Democrasy, but i fully respect yr opinion

[NanOnaN]

My knowledge mainly from my father's stories, who visited Greece many times for his research project.
Capital is Athens, there are many nice beaches.
They have musical instrument Buzuki? :)
Old city, Coliseum, and many great philosophers.. thats it

[El Greco]

My knowledge mainly from my father's stories, who visited Greece many times for his research project.
Capital is Athens, there are many nice beaches.
They have musical instrument Buzuki? :)
Old city, Coliseum, and many great philosophers.. thats it

yes buzuki is the most known greek musical instrument but there are also many others like bulgari,laouto,lyra etc

[InnamoratoPazzo]

:lool: There is a russian singer Fillip Kirkorov. He used to sing in duo with a greek singer Sakis Rouvas.
My greek friend told me that Sakis starred recently in a movie which supposed to be a drama, but his performance was so ridiculous that they changed it into a comedy :lool:

is this true? what is Sakis doing now?

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

:lool: There is a russian singer Fillip Kirkorov. He used to sing in duo with a greek singer Sakis Rouvas.
My greek friend told me that Sakis starred recently in a movie which supposed to be a drama, but his performance was so ridiculous that they changed it into a comedy :lool:

is this true? what is Sakis doing now?

Ahh the famous Sakis!!! I don't know what he is doing now frankly. Maybe... reading his next role?:D:D:D
Definatelly go for Oskar:lool:

[El Greco]

:lool: There is a russian singer Fillip Kirkorov. He used to sing in duo with a greek singer Sakis Rouvas.
My greek friend told me that Sakis starred recently in a movie which supposed to be a drama, but his performance was so ridiculous that they changed it into a comedy :lool:

is this true? what is Sakis doing now?

I haven't seen the film so i can't say about his skills in acting,but as a singer he is dumn well

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=greek+music


btw. you can make multi quotes:)

Some modern Greek music hits which im fond of.

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
But the legacy that the great man gave them, was to order peoples with spirit of equality and justice.

Alexander was less interested in equality and justice and more with war, invasion and being a warrior.

His aim was not to be a some humanist ruler, he was a conquerer, he lived to fight and kill. Today we may have some "moral" issues with a guy who was bloodthirsty and enjoyed burning cities to the ground but it was what he was proud of and famous for. In his day and age this was not seen as some criminal acts, lets not confuse the ages.


El_Greco
The strugle of Alexander was not against the nations.

He thought many nations and destroyed the Persian Empire.



El_Greco
One of the main contribution of Alexander's expedition to the coultoure of the area that still remains is that peoples still remember this great man.


He is remembered in Iran as a violent tyrant who burnt Persepolis to the ground and killed their people. Heroes of one country can be viewed in a different light in other countries, he undoubtedly a hero of Greeks and Macedonians but this doesn't transend borders.


Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

The Turks originated from that region, the Seljuks, Beyliks and the Ottomans have their roots there.

[Qarama]

but during the Seleucid/Macedonian period the turks lived more in the north, Transoxania was conquered later.

[InnamoratoPazzo]

[quote]Alexander was less interested in equality and justice and more with war, invasion and being a warrior.

How can you explain then the fact that he encouraged marriages betwen locals and greeks, his marriage to Roxana, and that he favoured persian commanders despite the resentment of the greek chiefs?



He thought many nations and destroyed the Persian Empire.


Come no, man! Persians themselves tryed to conquer Greece many times! Have you ever heard about Greek-Persian wars? Do not try to show them as angels!:D


He is remembered in Iran as a violent tyrant who burnt Persepolis to the ground and killed their people.

Many historians dont approve of Alexander's burning Persepolis, but Alexander explained this as a revenge for the persians' burning Athens.
so, I think, they are even.:D

he undoubtedly a hero of Greeks and Macedonians but this doesn't transend borders.

again you r trying to diminish his figure. How can you explain then hundreds of poems and books devoted to him by people of different cultures and epochs, describing him as just and the wisest king ever?

Firdawsi in his Shahname says that Alexander was the son of a persian king and macedoian princess:D.

In his "Saddi Iskandari" ("The wall of Alexander") great Alisher Navoi describes him as the righteous and wise ideal ruler, setting him as an example for all rulers. :D

Many khans, shahs and emirs of the following epochs were flattered by their court poets calling them "Iskandari soniy" - "the second Alexander".

Also the Roman emperors used to make piligrimages to his tomb in Egypt.

Let's be honest, Alexander is one of the central figures in Western culture and history. So it is at least not objective to say that he is a hero only for Greece and that "this does not trancsend borders".

I'm not saying he was an angel, yes he killed a lot of people, but as you said "In his day and age this was not seen as some criminal acts".

Yes, his figure is very controversial and I'm not trying to say that he is regarded as a hero in Iran.
I'm just writing it because your post is a litte bit biased, you are clrearly trying to neglect Alexander's role in history and his legacy (I don know why:D). and I urge you to be objective.:D

If you decide to answer to my post, please then answer to all points I highlighted:D

peace

[melo]

Alexander is also the reason they call walnuts "Greek nuts" instead of central asian nuts. :lol:

[Tabriz_Han]

InnamoratoPazzo
How can you explain then the fact that he encouraged marriages betwen locals and greeks, his marriage to Roxana, and that he favoured persian commanders despite the resentment of the greek chiefs?


This is common behaviour among conquerers, infact its difficult to find strong leaders who didn't behave in this way.

- Marriages into local dynasties and powerfull families is done for pollitical reasons, its been common practice since history began
- Favouring people not of the leaders descent has also been a common practice, its easier to rule foreigners they have no right to the throne, while people of the same nation can marry into and fabricate a lineage allowing them to contest for rulership.


Come no, man! Persians themselves tryed to conquer Greece many times! Have you ever heard about Greek-Persian wars? Do not try to show them as angels!

Alexander did destroy Persia. Persians also tries to destroy Greece, the two had wars and in the end Alexander was victorious. This doesn't make anyone good or evil, if Persia had the chance she would have done the same.


Many historians dont approve of Alexander's burning Persepolis, but Alexander explained this as a revenge for the persians' burning Athens.
so, I think, they are even.

Alexander burned down alot of cities, what greater achievement is there as a warrior to totally destroy your enemy.

again you r trying to diminish his figure. How can you explain then hundreds of poems and books devoted to him by people of different cultures and epochs, describing him as just and the wisest king ever?

These poems are not about how humane he was, they are about the great warrior.

You know, people tend to admire warriors after their death, even if they killed millions of people, its a weird aspect of humans, the strong and powerfull are respected even if they comit acts that we would find shocking.


Firdawsi in his Shahname says that Alexander was the son of a persian king and macedoian princess

Firdawsi was trying to save the embarrasment of total defeat ie make the enemy one of us so it doesn't seem so bad :D


In his "Saddi Iskandari" ("The wall of Alexander") great Alisher Navoi describes him as the righteous and wise ideal ruler, setting him as an example for all rulers.

Alisher Navoi describes the "ideal" of conquering the world as being from the from the perspective of the conquerer as for protecting the people of the world and creating universal justice.
The Turks have a soft-spot for warrior kings and leaders with ideals of world-domination :P

So it is at least not objective to say that he is a hero only for Greece and that "this does not trancsend borders".

He is not a national hero outside of Greece and Macedonia.

I'm just writing it because your post is a litte bit biased, you are clrearly trying to neglect Alexander's role in history and his legacy

There is nothing biased, he was a warrior king, burning down cities and destroying empires wasn't a "bad" thing for him it was an achievement, just because today this may be percieved as unacceptable behaviour doesn't mean it was back then. In the age of empires, Alexanders actions were a total sucess and is what made him so popular.

[odish]

Hi guys!
I'm starting this thread in order to understand how many of Uzbek citizens know something about country of Greece and the role that this country played in the past in the history of Uzbekistan.

I dun no about any kind role played greece in the history of Uzb ....
But i know nowadays smth about greek people , most of the fish and chips shops in the uk greek people or Greek-Cypriot People control and do the biznes , they maybe born in uk but originally come from Greece or Greek cyprus

P.S. Football: they r champion of the Europe , and in summer they r playing Euro 2008 as well, good international team

[El Greco]

This is common behaviour among conquerers, infact its difficult to find strong leaders who didn't behave in this way.

- Marriages into local dynasties and powerfull families is done for pollitical reasons, its been common practice since history began
- Favouring people not of the leaders descent has also been a common practice, its easier to rule foreigners they have no right to the throne, while people of the same nation can marry into and fabricate a lineage allowing them to contest for rulership.




Alexander did destroy Persia. Persians also tries to destroy Greece, the two had wars and in the end Alexander was victorious. This doesn't make anyone good or evil, if Persia had the chance she would have done the same.




Alexander burned down alot of cities, what greater achievement is there as a warrior to totally destroy your enemy.



These poems are not about how humane he was, they are about the great warrior.

You know, people tend to admire warriors after their death, even if they killed millions of people, its a weird aspect of humans, the strong and powerfull are respected even if they comit acts that we would find shocking.




Firdawsi was trying to save the embarrasment of total defeat ie make the enemy one of us so it doesn't seem so bad :D




Alisher Navoi describes the "ideal" of conquering the world as being from the from the perspective of the conquerer as for protecting the people of the world and creating universal justice.
The Turks have a soft-spot for warrior kings and leaders with ideals of world-domination :P



He is not a national hero outside of Greece and Macedonia.



There is nothing biased, he was a warrior king, burning down cities and destroying empires wasn't a "bad" thing for him it was an achievement, just because today this may be percieved as unacceptable behaviour doesn't mean it was back then. In the age of empires, Alexanders actions were a total sucess and is what made him so popular.

First of all, greetings my friend!
I will try to give my prespective to this issue,although i am not a historic,fact that justifies some mistakes in some parts.

Alexander indeed destroyed Persepolis,thing that was not his best highlight, but...do not forget that the first step was done by Persians who marched against Greece(twice) with absolutely no reason and they tryed (thank God unsuccesfully) to destroy Greek civilazitation(and maybe European history wouldn't be the same).
U say that Pesrains would have done the same if they had the chance. The trueth is they did completely burnt and demolish Macedonia and Thrace and Central Greece as well as the cities in Asia Minor coasts. They did whatever they could to destroy the rest of greece,but it wasnt in their hand after all:)

Maybe common marriages was a clever political action, however this doesnt reduce Alexander's vision of a united empire established in equality of peoples and in one education,rather than in ethnic parameters.

He is still a hero in yr areas. Do u know Kafir Kalash trieb? They live in Pakistan. They have thrills and tales about him and they also claim that their ancestors were Alexander's warriors who choosed to stay in their lands. He is still alive in legends of turkish triebs of the region.

Of course nobody said that Alexander was a humanitarian by the meanng we give today. He did his mistakes.Great men great mistakes:)

There were many great warlords from area of central Asia. Gengis qhan or Amir Timur for example but history named no one of them "Great".

Alexander's main attempt besides making an empire, was to spread the greek coultoure outside of his motherland and he was judged hard by his fellow patriots of his times,who could not see the reason why.

[El Greco]

I dun no about any kind role played greece in the history of Uzb ....
But i know nowadays smth about greek people , most of the fish and chips shops in the uk greek people or Greek-Cypriot People control and do the biznes , they maybe born in uk but originally come from Greece or Greek cyprus

P.S. Football: they r champion of the Europe , and in summer they r playing Euro 2008 as well, good international team


I dun no about any kind role played greece in the history of Uzb ....
Hi! Go back to page 1 i explain:)

[El Greco]

Alexander was less interested in equality and justice and more with war, invasion and being a warrior.

His aim was not to be a some humanist ruler, he was a conquerer, he lived to fight and kill. Today we may have some "moral" issues with a guy who was bloodthirsty and enjoyed burning cities to the ground but it was what he was proud of and famous for. In his day and age this was not seen as some criminal acts, lets not confuse the ages.




He thought many nations and destroyed the Persian Empire.




He is remembered in Iran as a violent tyrant who burnt Persepolis to the ground and killed their people. Heroes of one country can be viewed in a different light in other countries, he undoubtedly a hero of Greeks and Macedonians but this doesn't transend borders.


Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

The Turks originated from that region, the Seljuks, Beyliks and the Ottomans have their roots there.

Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

In my last trip to U-stan i heard a name of a town which franclly i dont remember now, but the name had something... and yes i recognised the name of a famous greek politician :D His name's history comes from this place,from yr country!
Yes i know turkish people origin comes from central asia somewhere in nowdays T-stan and K-stan.Speaking with some uzbek people i don't think they gave me the idea that believe they are Turks like Turks of Turkey. They believe they have close bonds but they are Uzbeks.

[El Greco]

Do you know about how O'zbekistan influenced Greece?

In my last trip to U-stan i heard a name of a town which franclly i dont remember now, but the name had something... and yes i recognised the name of a famous greek politician :D His name's history comes from this place,from yr country!
Yes i know turkish people origin comes from central asia somewhere in nowdays T-stan and K-stan.Speaking with some uzbek people i don't think they gave me the idea that believe they are Turks like Turks of Turkey. They believe they have close bonds but they are Uzbeks.

Besides food in U-stan had many things in common with greek and it was absolutely delicious:)
Weather in summer is sooo hot! Just like greece.

[El Greco]

I like many things about Uzbek people. One of them is their name Uz-bek FREE MEN!:)

[InnamoratoPazzo]

hi el Greco, if not a secret, from which city are you from?

and what is the weather like over there? is it snowy?

and when, in which month, people usually start swimming in the sea in Greece?

[Temur]

i have been in Grecee twice and have seen thessaloniki,alexandrapoli,komotini,athens.

[El Greco]

hi el Greco, if not a secret, from which city are you from?

and what is the weather like over there? is it snowy?

and when, in which month, people usually start swimming in the sea in Greece?

Hi! i'm from Creta island.Weather in Creta is hot in summer , mild rainy winters. Climate is very hygiene very nice. The bad thing about Creta is strong winds especially in summer(hot south winds) and cold north during winter.
Somebody can start swimming during April but sea is still cold.:) We usually start from May untill late September.

rwt the map of Greece and map of Creta

[El Greco]

i have been in Grecee twice and have seen thessaloniki,alexandrapoli,komotini,athens.

Did you come as a tourist or invited by somebody? Did you like our country?

[Kolobok]

Four years ago I went to Athens for a short holiday,loved the food...well in fact anything is good after english food. Anyways,I thought the islands were breathtaking,however,people were a bit rude.
The best part, a taxi driver that took me from the airport to the hotel apparently was from Kokand, he lived 2 streets down from where I used to live as a kid, he left Uzbekistan in 1962. Small world?

[El Greco]

Four years ago I went to Athens for a short holiday,loved the food...well in fact anything is good after english food. Anyways,I thought the islands were breathtaking,however,people were a bit rude.
The best part, a taxi driver that took me from the airport to the hotel apparently was from Kokand, he lived 2 streets down from where I used to live as a kid, he left Uzbekistan in 1962. Small world?

Haha! World is small indeed my friend:D

[El Greco]

http://www.magichorus.net/ History of ancient Cretan civilazitation and disc of Phaistus.

Some fotos of ancient cretan palace of Knossos.
Some say that the disc of Phaistus (still unrevealed mystery of its meaning) was an ancient map or something like modern global geographical spere we use in schools. Notice the second picture and u will understand!
Fresco is from archeological site of Knossos, the capital of cretan civilization, and represents a Prince and women of the honours.

[Samimiy]

They ruled very succesfully with the spirit of equality and justice of greek coultoure.They had been a relief for the people's of the area if somebody consider how hard their life was under the Persian domination.

Mana shu joyi sal kulguli chiqibdimi? :?

But seriously, modern Greeks have as much in common with ancient Greeks as modern American fraternities (who call themselvels Greek) do. I don't know if you know what I am talking about, but if you've spent time in the US, you should. Modern Greeks are lucky to have all the cultural treasures left by the ancient Greeks, and are reaping the rewards today.

[El Greco]

http://www.magichorus.net/ History of ancient Cretan civilazitation and disc of Phaistus.

Some fotos of ancient cretan palace of Knossos and Phaistus
Some say that the disc of Phaistus (still unrevealed mystery of its meaning) was an ancient map or something like modern global geographical spere we use in schools. Notice the second picture and u will understad!
Fresco is from archeological site of Knossos, the capital of cretan civilization, and represents a Prince and women of the honours.

Another fotos of Knossos and Phaistus antiques. Also the head of bull holy animal for ancient cretans

[El Greco]

Mana shu joyi sal kulguli chiqibdimi? :?

But seriously, modern Greeks have as much in common with ancient Greeks as modern American fraternities (who call themselvels Greek) do. I don't know if you know what I am talking about, but if you've spent time in the US, you should. Modern Greeks are lucky to have all the cultural treasures left by the ancient Greeks, and are reaping the rewards today.

Thanks for yr post,but i don't agree with u. Modern greeks have many things in common with ancient ancestors. language,ethics,believes and many more which is a long talk(and ofcourse bloodline). On the other hand some bond to ancient are lost due to modern way of living.
I'm not sure of what u mean by "fraternities".
Talking about rewards,do u know any country which doesn't use its ancient treasures to obtain touristic bussiness prosperity? I don't know any.

[El Greco]

http://www.uzland.info/text003.htm

[El Greco]

Central Asia--from earliest times to the present

Bukhara and Samarkand, the Khyber Pass and the Pamir mountains, Sinkiang and the Gobi desert, the Amu Darya and the Syr Darya--these evocative place-names bring to the mind's eye the vast geographical and cultural region in the heart of Asia that has long been a source of fascination for people in other parts of the world, especially in the West. Many works of ancient and modern literature testify to the influence and achievements of central Asian civilizations. The Cimmerians appear in Homer's Odyssey, and the Greek historian Herodotus described the way of life of the Scythians in the fifth century B.C. Since then travellers and writers from Marco Polo to Rudyard Kipling and Dino Buzzati (The Tartar Steppe) have portrayed this region where fantasy and reality are never far apart, and poets such as Hafiz and Omar Khayyam have brought it to life in verses of lyrical splendour. BNET

[nemets]

my relative in Uzbekistan is numismatist and he used to sponsor local archaeologists. These coins were found by his archaeologists in Uzbekistan:

http://photofile.name/photo/nemets/357852/large/6795179.jpg

[El Greco]

my relative in Uzbekistan is numismatist and he used to sponsor local archaeologists. These coins were found by his archaeologists in Uzbekistan:

http://photofile.name/photo/nemets/357852/large/6795179.jpg

Thanks for yr post!!! It is great. One of the head represent Alexander the great. I apreciate yr help to the topic of this thread:)

[Demir Kağan]

By the way, Rotting Christ rocks!! :cool:

[El Greco]

4-drachma-coin of Antigonos I (319-301BC).
On the one side is the head of Alexander the Great, and on the other side the image of Antigonos I and the words King Antigonos printed in Greek characters

Anybody can notice the similarity in both coins as the head of Alexander is represented

http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/English/PageData/ancient_coins.htm

[El Greco]

By the way, Rotting Christ rocks!! :cool:

What does this has to do with the topic of the thread? And by the way...no offensive comments about Christ! Please!

[Samimiy]

Thanks for yr post,but i don't agree with u. Modern greeks have many things in common with ancient ancestors. language,ethics,believes and many more which is a long talk(and ofcourse bloodline). On the other hand some bond to ancient are lost due to modern way of living.
I'm not sure of what u mean by "fraternities".
Talking about rewards,do u know any country which doesn't use its ancient treasures to obtain touristic bussiness prosperity? I don't know any.

Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.
-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.

[El Greco]

Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.
-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.

Yes we are Christians today, so what? Does this mean we are not real greeks? NO!
My answer to yr comment about scientific and coultoural contribution is simple: You do not know or haven't put yrself in to trouble to check!
Look at test Pap which saves milions of women arround globe from uterus cancer since 1950's!
What about greek scientists who work in other countries? They don't count? I tell u one thing without them NASA would had never launched misile to space, check my words!
Do u know I.T.E laboratory? Famous worldwide for various projects from lazer technology to robot or bio-industry.Instruments made of ITE had been sent to Mars in 2001.
NASA's project Mars odyssey 2001 music composed by Vangeli a greek composer!
some of the modern greek acomplishments

[El Greco]

Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.
-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.

Talking about contribution u must remember that modern times for Greece start from 1821 year of the greek revolution against Otomans. Earlier than this age, greece lived in total issolation from other civilised countries ,education,scientific spirit or whatever we can say coultoure.

[nemets]

El Greco, do you know wether the japan word "Kimono" has a greek origin?
It was told in one of my favourite movies "Big fat greek wedding party" . :)
Just kidding.
By the way, NASA couldn't launch their projects without german scientists including Von Braun, russian founder Tsiolkovsky and egyptian archeologist (forget the name) who had developed all interplanetary missions. Could you please tell something about greek space explorers?

[El Greco]

Greece's dark age: 1453-1821

[El Greco]

El Greco, do you know wether the japan word "Kimono" has a greek origin?
It was told in one of my favourite movies "Big fat greek wedding party" . :)
Just kidding.
By the way, NASA couldn't launch their projects without german scientists including Von Braun, russian founder Tsiolkovsky and egyptian archeologist (forget the name) who had developed all interplanetary missions. Could you please tell something about greek space explorers?

A greek scientist(which im affraid i don't remember his name now) had developed the metal alloy of the misile.Something like 'thermal shield", without it no missile would had escaped or re-enter atmosphere!
Kimono has nothing to do with Greece i ensure u!:D

[Samimiy]

Yes we are Christians today, so what? Does this mean we are not real greeks? NO!
My answer to yr comment about scientific and coultoural contribution is simple: You do not know or haven't put yrself in to trouble to check!
Look at test Pap which saves milions of women arround globe from uterus cancer since 1950's!
What about greek scientists who work in other countries? They don't count? I tell u one thing without them NASA would had never launched misile to space, check my words!
Do u know I.T.E laboratory? Famous worldwide for various projects from lazer technology to robot or bio-industry.Instruments made of ITE had been sent to Mars in 2001.
NASA's project Mars odyssey 2001 music composed by Vangeli a greek composer!
some of the modern greek acomplishments

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

[El Greco]

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

Dear! I don't really know where to start:)
First of all, u haven't hurt my national pride.We are talking here! This is good cause we share opinions and who knows maybe u or me learn something we didn't know before.
U r right that those figures like Pythagoras or Heraclitus or Archymedes were giants and basicly they established whole areas of science. Don't forget that in those times knowledge had been less than today. Today many nations contribute to science knowledge and put their tiny stone. Nobody can say that in the last 50 years a country or a person have created a new science.
Neither USA. Science is in its mature age and goes on with the help of all countries. So, it is somehow unfair to say that Greece has started nothing new in science or haven't discovered a new area of knowedge.
Nobel prizes are not in my opinion the standard to say "hey this country has many scientists or many artists with Nobel prize it's so nice bravo!!" G.Papanikolaou the greatest human or doctor -say as u like-of 20th century had received no Nobel prize! In fact he died poor!
Let me ask u something. Are u a Christian? I would like to know to go further in a next post.

[El Greco]

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

I assume that u r not Cristian or u haven't studied ancient greek philosophy. Christianity and greek philosophy share a lot! The fundamental beliefs of Christian religion had been also for the ancient greek philosophers like Socrates or Platon or Aristoteles. Socrates was teaching in public there is ONE true God,that there is immortal soul and after death linked to the 'Apan"(the source of Everything) the spirit of Creator. In fact they look alike so much in some points,that this made some modern researchers of Jesus, to claim He had been instracted to Greek Thought before starting Ηis preach(during the unknown period of His life)
About body: Body is fundamental for Greek Thought as well as in Christian religion as the base the "temple" of the soul. So it is important to behave well to the body but minor in importance compare to soul.

[El Greco]

Sorry to have hurt your national pride. But both you and I know that modern greek scientists, (whose contributions may be considerable), as productive as they may be, cannot compare to the giants of Ancient Greece. Every schoolchild know Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Psythagoras, Archymedes, Homer, Hesiod, and many others. These are the people who are considered fathers of many branches of science and culture. But who can name even a few modern greek scientists or artists? And no, George Michael doesn't count. Modern greek scientists may be making significant advances, and a few may even be working abroad (what a triumph!). But Iam talking about people who've become household names, I am talking about Nobel laureates.

Being Christian does not mean you are not Greek. It does mean being Christian makes you very different from the ancient greeks. There are fundamental differences between the two ideologies, which are reflected on the lifestyles, attitudes and behaviors. Simple example: ancient greeks placed very high emphasis on the human body. They thought that gods were shaped like men, and having good, athletic bodies made them look like gods. The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?

"The implication being that the ancient greeks were very athletic and fit people. Can this be said about modern greeks?[/quote]"
I don't suppose u call us "meat-balls"?!!! do u?:)

[El Greco]

Where is Pazzo?!

[InnamoratoPazzo]

[quote]
Biggest differences between modern and ancient Greeks:
-Modern greeks are Christian and have been for a very long time, whereas ancient greeks had a very different system of ethics, morals and and life principles.
-Modern greeks are more nationalistic, united under a single state (with the exception of Cyprus). Ancient greeks' identities were shaped by their city-states, which were much more independent, and competed with one another. While they were united under the Hellenistic idea at different times, these times came relatively late and didn't last very long.

I can't understand your point. You r either naive or not educated.
There are two thousands years of history between ancient and modern greeks. and its obvious that they changed like everybody does.
can you say that you and your ancestors 2000 years back talk the same language and share the same religion? damn no!

Moreover, I wonder how can one compare modern ethics, morals, and life principles with those existed 2000 years ago? do you mean modern greeks have to go back to those principles in order to be "more greek"?



-Most importantly, ancient greeks made enormous scientific and cultural contributions to world history. Modern greeks don't even come close. That has something to do with culture, no?

I've heard this argument in one badtaste comedy. I suppose you watched it too:D
To continue your thought: ancient iranians had a lot of poets and scientists, but modern iranians dont, so modern iranians arent iranians. During Soviet times russians had immense scientific potential, which now they dont have, so russians arent russians.
Uzbeks had brilliant poets and scientists in medieval times, but now they dont, so we are not we...

God save us from such people!

To be serious:
As you know from history every culture has the times when it flourishes and the time of decline, so it's natural. No civilaztion can produce geniuses all the time. If we take Greece, there is no civilization that produced so many scientists, poets, warlords etc, etc as Ancient Greece. And it's incorrect to compare modern Greek science with Ancient. Moreover you cant compare any modern countrry's science and culture to that of Ancient Greece, simply because they dont stand the comparison. Remember those times are called Golden Age!
But history is circular Im sure the time of Greek glory will come back, as well as the times of Iranian, Uzbek, Russian etc. etc. glory.

As far as profiting from the ancient greek culture, there's nothing wrong with that. I never said it was wrong. I just said that modern greeks are marketing making money off the image and artefacts of the ancient greeks. They are just lucky.
are you jealous, or it just seems like?
I only can say thanks to greeks for saving so much historical sights and artefacts, so that everybody can enjoy them today!

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
Alexander indeed destroyed Persepolis,thing that was not his best highlight


Why not? he was a warrior king, destroying Persepolis was definately one of his highlights as are his other victories.


El_Greco
He is still alive in legends of turkish triebs of the region.


He didn't have an effect on Turks so generally they are indifferent, he is known as a great warrior but he doesn't have any deep meaning.


El_Greco
There were many great warlords from area of central Asia. Gengis qhan or Amir Timur for example but history named no one of them "Great".



But Turkic history does have one named "Magnificent" :)


El_Greco
Yes i know turkish people origin comes from central asia somewhere in nowdays T-stan and K-stan.Speaking with some uzbek people i don't think they gave me the idea that believe they are Turks like Turks of Turkey.

There was no "O'zbekistan" in that period, however from the land than is now O'zbekistan there is,

Saruhan Beylik - This beylik was founded by Khwarzemshah Turks who were fleeing the Mongols, they conquered Byzantine lands in Manisa.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9065814/Saruhan-Dynasty

Beğdili Tьrkmenleri - This clan mainly migrated from Khwarezm lands

http://www.turkmensitesi.com/beydili.html

Deveciler - These Turks were sent by the Khiva Khaganate to Ottoman lands

Sheyh Edebali - The guy who created the Ottoman masterplan, he was the spiritual guide, teacher and advisor of Osman Ghazi, his daughter married Osman Ghazi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik_Edebali

http://books.google.com/books?id=-0j8w-bL9yYC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=sheikh+edebali&source=web&ots=MUDwhVX9_v&sig=3nZXBOk2ebNkHnVq_B00e09vVJM

Emir Sultan - He was an infuential figure in the early years of the Ottomans and married Bayezids wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Sultan_Mosque

Ali Kuscu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Ku%C5%9F%C3%A7u

The Yesevi-Bektashi and Naqshibandi orders and tekkes across the Balkans were originally Alperens and holy men from around the Ozbeksitan region.

Even in the war at Izmir the man who entered first was Şerafettin Bey from Bukhara.

etc etc

O'zbekistans history has contributed alot to Hellen people over the past millenia.


Pazzo
If we take Greece, there is no civilization that produced so many scientists, poets, warlords etc, etc as Ancient Greece.

There are many, don't be so bigotted.

Plus, the modern age has outdone every civillisation of the past, the development of the last century has been greater than any other in history.



And it's incorrect to compare modern Greek science with Ancient. Moreover you cant compare any modern countrry's science and culture to that of Ancient Greece, simply because they dont stand the comparison. Remember those times are called Golden Age!

Your talking about an era when there was none of todays modern technology as if you miss it, as much as we can respect our histories lets be realistic, life as an ordinary person was pretty crappy back then, unless you was a king or part of the hierarchy life wasn't too pretty.

But history is circular Im sure the time of Greek glory will come back, as well as the times of Iranian, Uzbek, Russian etc. etc. glory.

Its not going to come back with wishfull thinking or believing in myths like, we were once great so if we wait around we'll be great again...

[InnamoratoPazzo]

I assume that u r not Cristian or u haven't studied ancient greek philosophy. Christianity and greek philosophy share a lot!

Indeed, Samimiy, you should make some research on medieval Christian theology and read books by medieval scholastics (Thomas Aquinas or Saint Anselm):D

Whole scholasticism is based on greek philosophy!:D

[Tabriz_Han]

You are joking right?

Plato and Aristotle were taught but so was Ibn Rushd, Ibn Sina, Tarkhan Uzlug Farabi, so according to your logic the basis of scholasticism was actually Islamic philosophy :rolleyes:

[Tabriz_Han]

Tell me what the main sections of the Summa of Aquinus are :)
Why did you delete your post huh

[InnamoratoPazzo]

are u kidding?
my friend, Ive passed all my exams long-long time ago, and there s no need to test me!

peace

[InnamoratoPazzo]

I agree ibn Rushd and other eastern pholosophers influenced a lot on scholasticism, but to say that scholasticism is based totally on Islamic philosophy is nonsense.

[Tabriz_Han]

I was being sarcastic, you might have misunderstood what I wrote.

I wrote, if your only counting Plato and Aristotle as being the main components of the Summa, using the same logic one could ignore everyone else and claim the Summa is composed of Ibn Rushd, Ibn Gazali, Ibn Sina, Farabi...

The Summa used many referrences, the most influential and prominant one obviously being the Bible.

[InnamoratoPazzo]

I was being sarcastic, you might have misunderstood what I wrote.

I wrote, if your only counting Plato and Aristotle as being the main components of the Summa, using the same logic one could ignore everyone else and claim the Summa is composed of Ibn Rushd, Ibn Gazali, Ibn Sina, Farabi...

The Summa used many referrences, the most influential and prominant one obviously being the Bible.
forgive my irony too, my friend, you are right!
Im not denying Islamic influence on western philosophy. both philosophies influenced each other alot, and only fools can say that one of them is superior.
AND (!!!) Europe have to thank Muslim world for saving and enriching the works of Greek philosophers.

peace

ps

I deleted my post coz I thought it was direspectful to you :-)

and dont worry I know the main ideas described in Summa.

[Temur]

Did you come as a tourist or invited by somebody? Did you like our country?

Yes i was tourist :D i did a little Balkan trip, Macedonia,Albania,Grecee i could visit. Most beautiful and smart one was Grecee. And most sympatic one was Macedonia i like skopje also.

[Uzbekxonim]

"ps. how come Greek is on Uzbek forum? dating an Uzbek girl?"

That's the nice thing about internet! You can join greek forums too.
Can you express more detailed why u don't like greek people?
No i don't date an Uzbek girl:)[/quote]

i am afraid that i will be judging a nation by its several represantatives, so disregard my previous msg. Greeks as a nation is old and achieved much during previous centuries, for that i respect it. plus Alexander the Great married Roxana, seems like Greeks like Central Asian girls. ;)
ps. i am going to Greece in a week :)

[El Greco]

[quote=Samimiy;915248]

I can't understand your point. You r either naive or not educated.
There are two thousands years of history between ancient and modern greeks. and its obvious that they changed like everybody does.
can you say that you and your ancestors 2000 years back talk the same language and share the same religion? damn no!

Moreover, I wonder how can one compare modern ethics, morals, and life principles with those existed 2000 years ago? do you mean modern greeks have to go back to those principles in order to be "more greek"?



I've heard this argument in one badtaste comedy. I suppose you watched it too:D
To continue your thought: ancient iranians had a lot of poets and scientists, but modern iranians dont, so modern iranians arent iranians. During Soviet times russians had immense scientific potential, which now they dont have, so russians arent russians.
Uzbeks had brilliant poets and scientists in medieval times, but now they dont, so we are not we...

God save us from such people!

To be serious:
As you know from history every culture has the times when it flourishes and the time of decline, so it's natural. No civilaztion can produce geniuses all the time. If we take Greece, there is no civilization that produced so many scientists, poets, warlords etc, etc as Ancient Greece. And it's incorrect to compare modern Greek science with Ancient. Moreover you cant compare any modern countrry's science and culture to that of Ancient Greece, simply because they dont stand the comparison. Remember those times are called Golden Age!
But history is circular Im sure the time of Greek glory will come back, as well as the times of Iranian, Uzbek, Russian etc. etc. glory.


are you jealous, or it just seems like?
I only can say thanks to greeks for saving so much historical sights and artefacts, so that everybody can enjoy them today!

Thanks for yr post, u couln't cover me more:)

[El Greco]

Why not? he was a warrior king, destroying Persepolis was definately one of his highlights as are his other victories.



He didn't have an effect on Turks so generally they are indifferent, he is known as a great warrior but he doesn't have any deep meaning.



But Turkic history does have one named "Magnificent" :)




There was no "O'zbekistan" in that period, however from the land than is now O'zbekistan there is,

Saruhan Beylik - This beylik was founded by Khwarzemshah Turks who were fleeing the Mongols, they conquered Byzantine lands in Manisa.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9065814/Saruhan-Dynasty

Beğdili Tьrkmenleri - This clan mainly migrated from Khwarezm lands

http://www.turkmensitesi.com/beydili.html

Deveciler - These Turks were sent by the Khiva Khaganate to Ottoman lands

Sheyh Edebali - The guy who created the Ottoman masterplan, he was the spiritual guide, teacher and advisor of Osman Ghazi, his daughter married Osman Ghazi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheik_Edebali

http://books.google.com/books?id=-0j8w-bL9yYC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=sheikh+edebali&source=web&ots=MUDwhVX9_v&sig=3nZXBOk2ebNkHnVq_B00e09vVJM

Emir Sultan - He was an infuential figure in the early years of the Ottomans and married Bayezids wife.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Sultan_Mosque

Ali Kuscu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Ku%C5%9F%C3%A7u

The Yesevi-Bektashi and Naqshibandi orders and tekkes across the Balkans were originally Alperens and holy men from around the Ozbeksitan region.

Even in the war at Izmir the man who entered first was Şerafettin Bey from Bukhara.

etc etc

O'zbekistans history has contributed alot to Hellen people over the past millenia.




There are many, don't be so bigotted.

Plus, the modern age has outdone every civillisation of the past, the development of the last century has been greater than any other in history.





Your talking about an era when there was none of todays modern technology as if you miss it, as much as we can respect our histories lets be realistic, life as an ordinary person was pretty crappy back then, unless you was a king or part of the hierarchy life wasn't too pretty.



Its not going to come back with wishfull thinking or believing in myths like, we were once great so if we wait around we'll be great again...

If u consider Alexander as just a warlord then it is ok,but i'm affraid if u do this u r beeing unjustice to Alexander and his role in world history.

Turcik not global history:) In Greek history we name a dozen of other "great"

Listen my friend, i know Turks of Turkey and i certainly know Uzbeks too.In my opinion they are very diferent only language has remain as a bond between 'em.Uzbek is a free independent nation and certainly has its own coultoural contribution to the world which doesn't have to be messed with Turkish of nowadays Turkey.Pan-Turcism as an idea is not in my concerns.


I speak about contribution of Otomans to the modern greek coultoure in a previous post.

The development of modern times! Oh well! When am i going to stop hearing this crupp pardon my language:rolleyes:. Look there is developmen of science indeed and technology but there stops the development. If u concider as development science without humanism, then it stops to be development and begans tobe an obsession,a tyrany.We live in 2008 and be hold our achivements:
Kids dying in Africa by famine while satellites are send to space to focus on every's peoples land and home:rolleyes:
Wars taking place all over the world and we watch them in our sofa drinking beers and eating pop corn:rolleyes:
Wars in the near future(this very moment that we speak) and mass evacuations of nations from their motherlandsare beeing sceduled:rolleyes:
Rich people become more rich and poors more poors take a look at the statistics:rolleyes:
Environment is rapidly changing but we give a dumn about it:rolleyes:

I could speak till tomorrow,the general idea has given already.Everybody take a look at yr inner world and ask 'DO WE HAVE A DEVELPMENT TODAY?"

With respect

[El Greco]

"

That's the nice thing about internet! You can join greek forums too.
Can you express more detailed why u don't like greek people?
No i don't date an Uzbek girl:)

i am afraid that i will be judging a nation by its several represantatives, so disregard my previous msg. Greeks as a nation is old and achieved much during previous centuries, for that i respect it. plus Alexander the Great married Roxana, seems like Greeks like Central Asian girls. ;)
ps. i am going to Greece in a week :)[/quote]

Welcome to my country:). I'm not claiming any role of representative of
Greek nation or Greek Thought,nobody can, neither Mr President:D.
Central Asian girls hm i can speak about Uzbek girls which i saw. They are pretty nice:)

[Qarama]

...
Listen my friend, i know Turks of Turkey and i certainly know Uzbeks too.In my opinion they are very diferent only language has remain as a bond between 'em.Uzbek is a free independent nation and certainly has its own coultoural contribution to the world which doesn't have to be messed with Turkish of nowadays Turkey....

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=25833
:)

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=25833
:)


theese are traditions we have in Greece too it's not Turkish copyright:)It doesn't proove national homiogeny

[El Greco]

Does anybody knows how to make free space in my total attachments space?

[Tabriz_Han]

El_Greco
Turcik not global history:) In Greek history we name a dozen of other "great"



In global history, Suleyman the Magnificent is known as Suleyman the Magnificent.

Ulugh Beg is known as Ulugh Beg, Ulugh means Great.

El_Greco, where does the Turkish language, identity, history and culture derive from, using your reasoning we can argue Pontics are just speaking a Greek language but are totally different people today...



El_Greco
Rich people become more rich and poors more poors take a look at the statistics


Its a development from the era of "rulers" and "peasents", at least today the peasents have some rights and can join the ranks of the rulers.

We often have a romanticised view of history, we forget that many of todays comforts didn't exist, plagues wiped out half the population of Europe, nobody washed, hygiene was awfull, no electric, no communications, mad tyrants and bloodthirsty dictators.

[El Greco]

In global history, Suleyman the Magnificent is known as Suleyman the Magnificent.

Ulugh Beg is known as Ulugh Beg, Ulugh means Great.

El_Greco, where does the Turkish language, identity, history and culture derive from, using your reasoning we can argue Pontics are just speaking a Greek language but are totally different people today...




Its a development from the era of "rulers" and "peasents", at least today the peasents have some rights and can join the ranks of the rulers.

We often have a romanticised view of history, we forget that many of todays comforts didn't exist, plagues wiped out half the population of Europe, nobody washed, hygiene was awfull, no electric, no communications, mad tyrants and bloodthirsty dictators.

I went to Ulugh Beg's madrasa by the way, in Samarkand.

I don't disagree with u we have comforts that ancients didn't, this is no real development cause after 2000 years we should learn at least to live in piece/justice and accept the diference in this world. Instead we r doing anything that comes from our hands to destroy our economies,societies,countries and entire world! It's no development when we cut out of science, God,human love,respect.
The bottom of line is that there is no real development of Mankind without spiritual reborn,love to the fellow person.
Jesus Christ said: "Anfaithfull! If u believed in Me just a little, I would have revealed the Symban(Universe) for u". After 2000 years i don't believe that Mankind has done the expected progress afterall.

[El Greco]

http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=25833
:)


[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uzbeks&action=edit&section=3)] History

In ancient times, various Altaic-speaking tribes began to move to the area between the Amu Darya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amu_Darya) (Oxus in Greek) and Syr Darya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syr_Darya) (Jaxartes in Greek) rivers. Some of these early tribes included the Huns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns) who eventually occupied this region around the 3rd century BC and continued their conquests further south and west.
What drastically changed the demographics of Central Asia was the invasion of the Mongols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongols) led by Genghis Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan) in the 13th century. Numerous native populations were wiped out by the Mongols and a process of population replacement began in earnest. During this period numerous Turkic tribes began to migrate and ultimately replace many of the Iranian peoples who were largely killed, absorbed by larger Turco-Mongolian groups[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], and/or pushed further south and Central Asia came to be known as Turkestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkestan). Much of modern Uzbekistan took shape during the reign of Tamerlane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamerlane), a prominent Turco-Mongolian conqueror who reigned over a vast empire from his capital at Samarkand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarkand). Later, between the 15th and 16th centuries, various nomadic tribes arrived from the steppes including the Kipchaks, Naymans, Kanglis, Kungrats, Manġits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manghit) and others and these tribes were led by Muhammad Shaybani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Shaybani) who was the Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan) of the Uzbeks. This period marked the beginnings of the modern Uzbek nationality and formation of an Uzbek state in what is today Uzbekistan, as these tribes were the first to use the name 'Uzbek'. This early Uzbek state challenged the Safavids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavids) and Mughals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughals), for control over Khorasan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khorasan) (modern Afghanistan).
Until 1924, the bulk of the settled Turkic population of Russian Turkestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Turkestan), who were of very heterogeneous descent, were known as Sarts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sart) by the colonial authorities, and only those groups speaking Kipchak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchak) dialects who had arrived in the region with Muhammad Shaybani Khan were called 'Uzbeks'. In 1924, when the new Uzbek SSR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_SSR) was created, the Soviets abolished the term 'Sart' and decreed that all settled Turkic speakers would henceforth be known as Uzbeks. Uzbekistan, under Russian and then later Soviet administration, became multi-ethnic as populations from throughout the former Soviet Union moved (or were exiled) to Central Asia. Now, people of Uzbek nationality can be found with different characteristics, from light skinned to dark toned skin colors, from blue eyes to black eyes, from blonds to brunettes.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uzbeks&action=edit&section=4)] Language

The Uzbek language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_language) is an Altaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic) language and is part of Karluk group of Turkic languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages). Modern Uzbek bears the closest resemblance to Uyghur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_language), slightly less so to Kazakh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_language), Turkmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmen_language) and, more distantly, to Turkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language). Modern Uzbek is written in wide variety of scripts including Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic), Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin), and Cyrillic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic). After the independence of Uzbekistan from the former Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union), the government decided to replace the Cyrillic script with a modified Latin alphabet, specifically for Turkic languages.
Modern Uzbek has also absorbed a considerable vocabulary and - to a much lesser degree - certain grammatical elements from non-Turk languages, most of all from Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language) as well as Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic) and Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language) among others.


[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uzbeks&action=edit&section=6)] Genetic origins

The modern Uzbek population represents varying degrees of diversity derived from the high traffic invasion routes through Central Asia. Once populated by Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples) tribes and other Indo-European peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_people), Central Asia experienced numerous invasions emanating out of Mongolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia) that would drastically impact the region. According to recent Genetic genealogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_genealogy) testing from a University of Chicago study, the Uzbeks cluster somewhere between the Mongols and the Iranian peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples): From the 3d century B.C., Central Asia experienced nomadic expansions of Altaic-speaking East Asian-looking people, and their incursions continued for hundreds of years, beginning with the Hsiung-Nu (who may be ancestors of the Huns), in 300 B.C., and followed by the Turks, in the 1st millennium A.D., and the Mongol expansions of the 13th century. High levels of haplogroup 10 and its derivative, haplogroup 36, are found in most of the Altaic-speaking populations and are a good indicator of the genetic impact of these nomadic groups. The expanding waves of Altaic-speaking nomads involved not only eastern Central Asia, where their genetic contribution is strong, as is shown in figure 7d but also regions farther west, like Iran, Iraq, Anatolia, and the Caucasus, as well as Europe, which was reached by both the Huns and the Mongols. In these western regions, however, the genetic contribution is low or undetectable (Wells et al. 2001), even though the power of these invaders was sometimes strong enough to impose a language replacement, as in Turkey and Azerbaijan (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). The difference could be due to the population density of the different geographical areas. Eastern regions of Central Asia must have had a low population density at the time, so an external contribution could have had a great genetic impact. In contrast, the western regions were more densely inhabited, and it is likely that the existing populations were more numerous than the conquering nomads, therefore leading to only a small genetic impact. Thus, the admixture estimate from northeast Asia is high in the east, but is barely detectable west of Uzbekistan. [5] (http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v71n3/023927/023927.html?erFrom=-6182819269366451666Guest)
The Uzbek population, according to this study, shows substantial Mongol admixture. The Uzbeks display a somewhat closer genetic relationship with Turkic-Mongols than with Iranic populations to the south and west.
Another study out of Uzbekistan corroborates this genetic evidence as to the origins of the modern Uzbeks and other regional Turk peoples: These migrations are reflected in the DNA, too, and it is clear that despite the majority of modern Central Asians speaking Turk languages, they derive much of their genetic heritage from the conquering Mongol warriors of Genghis Khan. [6] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1502189.stm)
The Turkic peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples) as a whole share common languages and many common cultural traits, but do not have common origins. The Uzbeks are descended to a large degree from Turk-Mongol invaders whose invasions span literally millennia from the first millennium CE with the early migrations of the Göktürks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks) to later invasions by the Uzbeks themselves during the early and mid period of the 2nd millennium. Throughout the centuries, these migrating Altaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic) peoples began to outnumber the native Iranian peoples of Central Asia and appear to have assimilated the vast majority through intermarriage, while mainly the Tajiks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajiks) survived albeit with some Turk intermingling as well. Thus, in the case of Uzbekistan and most other Central Asian states, it was not only a process of language replacement, such as what took place in Turkey and Azerbaijan, but also a mass migration and population replacement that helped to shape the modern Turk peoples of Uzbekistan and other Central Asian states.
Wikipedia

[El Greco]

Greece (Greek: Ελλάδα Elláda, IPA: [ɛˈlaða], or Ελλάς Ellás, [ɛˈlas]), officially the Hellenic Republic [Ελληνική Δημοκρατία (ɛliniˈkʲi ðimokraˈtia)],[3] is a country in Southeastern Europe, situated on the southern end of the Balkan Peninsula. It has borders with Albania, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria to the north, and Turkey to the east. The Aegean Sea lays to the east and south of mainland Greece, while the Ionian Sea lays to the west. Both parts of the Eastern Mediterranean basin feature a vast number of islands.

Greece lays at the juncture of Europe, Asia, and Africa. It is heir to the heritages of ancient Greece, the Roman and Byzantine Empire,[4] and nearly four centuries of Ottoman rule.[5] Greece has a particularly long and eventful history with a diverse cultural heritage that both shaped and has been shaped by cultures throughout the Middle East, Northern Africa, and Europe. It is regarded as the birthplace of democracy,[6] Western philosophy,[7] the Olympic Games, Western literature, political science, major scientific and mathematic principles, and Western drama[8] including both tragedy and comedy.

Today, Greece is a developed country, a member of the European Union since 1981,[9] a member of the Economic and Monetary Union of the European Union since 2001, NATO since 1952, the OECD since 1961,[10] the WEU since 1995, and ESA since 2005.[11] Athens is the capital; Thessaloniki, Patras, Heraklion, Volos and Larissa are some of the country's other major cities.

The southern shores of Greece's Aegean Sea viewed the emergence of one of the first advanced civilizations in Europe. Minoan and Mycenean civilizations, and later Greek city-states, emerged across the Greek peninsula but also on the shores of Black Sea, South Italy and Asia Minor, reaching great levels of prosperity that resulted in an unprecedented cultural boom, expressed in architecture, tragedy, drama, science and philosophy, and nurtured in Athens under a democratic environment. Athens and Sparta led the way in repelling the Persian Empire in a series of battles. Both were later overshadowed by Thebes and eventually Macedonia, with the latter under the guidance of Alexander the Great uniting and leading the Greek world to victory over the Persians, to presage the Hellenistic era, itself brought only partially to a close two centuries later with the establishment of Roman rule over Greek lands in 146 BC.

The subsequent mixture of Roman ,and Hellenic culture took form in the making of the Byzantine Empire in 330 AD around Constantinople (today Istanbul, Turkey), and remained a major cultural and military force for the next 1,123 years until its fall at the hands of Ottomans in 1453. On the eve of the Ottoman era the Greek intelligentsia migrated to Western Europe, playing a significant role in the Western European Renaissance through the transferring of works by Ancient Greeks to Western Europe. Nevertheless, the Ottoman millet system contributed to the ethnic cohesion of Orthodox Greeks by segregating the various peoples within the Ottoman Empire based on religion as the latter played an integral role in the formation of modern Greek identity.

On March 25th of 1821, the Greeks rebelled against the Ottoman empire. Through the Greek War of Independence, successfully fought against the Ottoman Empire from 1821 to 1829, the nascent Greek state was finally recognized under the London Protocol. In 1827, Ioannis Kapodistrias, a noble Greek from the Ionian Islands, was chosen as the first governor of the new Republic. However, following his assassination, the Great Powers soon installed a monarchy under Otto, of the Bavarian House of Wittelsbach. In 1843, an uprising forced the King to grant a constitution and a representative assembly. Due to his unimpaired authoritarian rule, he was eventually dethroned in 1863 and replaced by Prince Vilhelm (William) of Denmark, who took the name George I and brought with him the Ionian Islands as a coronation gift from Britain. In 1877, Charilaos Trikoupis, a dominant figure of the Greek political scene who is attributed with the significant improvement of the country's infrastructure, curbed the power of the monarchy to interfere in the assembly by issuing the rule of vote of confidence to any potential prime minister.
March 25, 1821: Germanos of Patras, blessing the Greek flag at Agia Lavra. Theodoros Vryzakis, 1865.
March 25, 1821: Germanos of Patras, blessing the Greek flag at Agia Lavra. Theodoros Vryzakis, 1865.
July 24, 1974: Konstantinos Karamanlis arrives in Athens on the French Presidential jet, courtesy of French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing
July 24, 1974: Konstantinos Karamanlis arrives in Athens on the French Presidential jet, courtesy of French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing

As a result of the Balkan Wars of 1912-13, Greece had successfully increased the extent of her territory and population, a challenging context both socially and economically. In the following years, the struggle between the new King Constantine I and his charismatic prime minister Eleftherios Venizelos over the country's foreign policy on the eve of World War I dominated the country's political order, and divided the country into two bitterly hostile factions (see National Schism).

In the aftermath of WW I, Greece fought against Turkish nationalists led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922), with the traumatic conflict ending in a massive population exchange between the two countries under the Treaty of Lausanne. Instability and successive coup d'etats marked the following era, which was coloured by the massive task of incorporating 1.5 million Greek refugees from Asia Minor into Greek society.On 28 October 1940 Fascist Italy demanded the surrender of Greece, but the Greek dictator Ioannis Metaxas famously responded to the Italian ultimatum with the single word "OXI" ("No"). In the following Greco-Italian War, Greece repelled Italian forces into Albania, giving the Allies their first victory over Axis forces on land. The country would eventually fall to urgently dispatched German forces during the Battle of Greece, but the occupiers nevertheless met serious challenges from the Greek Resistance.

After liberation, Greece experienced a civil war between Royalist and Communist forces, which led to economic devastation and severe social tensions between its Rightists and large Communist Leftists[12] The next 20 years were characterized by a significant economic growth, also propelled in part by the Marshall Plan. In 1965, a period of political turbulence led to a coup d’etat on April 21, 1967 by the US-supported Regime of the Colonels. On November 1973 the Athens Polytechnic Uprising sent shock waves across the regime, and a counter-coup established Brigadier Dimitrios Ioannides as dictator. On July 20, 1974, as Turkey invaded the island of Cyprus, the regime collapsed.

Ex-Premier Constantine Karamanlis was invited back from Paris where he had lived in self-exile since 1963, marking the beginning of the Metapolitefsi era; a 1975 democratic republican constitution was activated and the monarchy abolished by a referendum held that same year. Meanwhile, Andreas Papandreou founded the Panhellenic Socialist Party, or PASOK, in response to Constantine Karamanlis' New Democracy party, and the two groupings have dominated Greek political affairs in the ensuing decades. Greece became the tenth member of the European Union on January 1, 1981 and ever since, the nation has experienced a remarkable and sustained economic growth. Widespread investments in industrial enterprises and heavy infrastructure, as well as funds from the European Union and growing revenues from tourism, shipping and a fast growing service sector have raised the country's standard of living to unprecedented levels. The country adopted the Euro in 2001, and successfully organised the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens

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Greece is a parliamentary republic.[13] The head of state is the President of the Republic, who is elected by the Parliament for a five-year term.[14] After the Constitutional amendment of 1986 the President's duties were curtailed to a significant extent, and they are now largely ceremonial.[15]

The current Constitution of Greece was drawn up and adopted by the Fifth Revisionary Parliament of the Hellenes and entered into force in 1975 after the fall of the military junta of 1967-1974. It has been revised twice since, in 1986 and in 2001. The Constitution, which consists of 120 articles, provides for a separation of powers into executive, legislative, and judicial branches, and grants extensive specific guarantees (further reinforced in 2001) of civil liberties and social rights.[16]

According to the Constitution, executive power is exercised by the President of the Republic and the Government;[17] after 1986, however, the role of the President in the executive branch is ceremonial.[15] The position of Prime Minister, Greece's head of government, belongs to the current leader of the political party that can obtain the confidence of a plurality in the Parliament. The President of the Republic formally appoints the Prime Minister and, on his recommendation, appoints and dismisses the other members of the Cabinet.[18] The Prime Minister exercises vast political power, and the amendment of 1986 further strengthened his position to the detriment of the President of the Republic.[19]

Legislative power is exercised by a 300-member unicameral Parliament.[20] Statutes passed by the Parliament are promulgated by the President of the Republic.[21] Parliamentary elections are held every four years, but the President of the Republic is obliged to dissolve the Parliament earlier on the proposal of the Cabinet, in view of dealing with a national issue of exceptional importance.[22] The President is also obliged to dissolve the Parliament earlier, if the opposition manages to pass a motion of no confidence.[23]

The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature and comprises three Supreme Courts: the Court of Cassation (Άρειος Πάγος), the Council of State (Συμβούλιο της Επικρατείας) and the Court of Auditors (Ελεγκτικό Συνέδριο). The Judiciary system is also composed of civil courts, which judge civil and penal cases and administrative courts, which judge administrative cases, namely disputes between the citizens and the State.

Since the restoration of democracy the party system is dominated by the liberal-conservative New Democracy and the social-democratic Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK). Non-negligible parties include the Communist Party of Greece, the Coalition of the Radical Left and the Popular Orthodox Rally.

On March 7, 2004, Kostas Karamanlis, president of the New Democracy party and nephew of the late Constantine Karamanlis was elected as the new Prime Minister of Greece, thus marking his party's first electoral victory in nearly eleven years. Karamanlis took over government from Kostas Simitis of PASOK, who had been in office since January 1996, replacing the ailing Andreas Papandreou who died on June 23, 1996. Kostas Karamanlis won a second term on September 16, 2007, however his party acquired a slimmer majority in the Greek Parliament gaining only 152 out of 300 seats.

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Greece consists of a mountainous mainland jutting out into the sea at the southern end of the Balkans, the Peloponnesus peninsula (separated from the mainland by the canal of the Isthmus of Corinth), and numerous islands (around 2,000), including Crete, Euboea, Lesbos, Chios, the Dodecanese and the Cycladic groups of the Aegean Sea as well as the Ionian Sea islands. Greece has the tenth longest coastline in the world with 14,880 kilometres (9,246 mi); its land boundary is 1,160 kilometres (721 mi).

Four fifths of Greece consist of mountains or hills, making the country one of the most mountainous in Europe. Western Greece contains a number of lakes and wetlands and it is dominated by the Pindus mountain range. Pindus has a maximum elevation of 2,636 m (8,648 ft) and it is essentially a prolongation of the Dinaric Alps.

The range continues through the western Peloponnese, crosses the islands of Kythera and Antikythera and find its way into southwes