Children's rights

[Пушкарева]

1) At what age do you think the child should get an authority to make own decisions affecting his/her life?

2) How old is your child and what extent of freedom in terms of (any) choice does s/he have in her life?

3) Do you use physical power in response to your child's misconduct?

4) Did your parents use physical power when you disobeyed as a kid?

5) Do you agree with the UN Declaration of Children's Rights stated in the post #2? Why?

6) What do you think of such issues as:

- children warriors;
- children workers;
- children - victims of sex trafficking;
- teenager crime;


7) Your other comments on the topic.

Let's share thoughts. You may select one sub-topic to elaborate.


NB: Was inspired to open the thread based on the following discussion:
http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=921612&postcount=187


http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/pal%20kid%20-%20child%20abuse.jpg http://www.photogenx.net/images/publish/voice_booklet/b2.jpg

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/aencmed/targets/images/scp/T275690A.gif http://www.fpnp.net/pics/2824.jpg

[Пушкарева]

Declaration of the Rights of the Child

Proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 1386(XIV) of 20 November 1959

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have, in the Charter, reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights and in the dignity and worth of the human person, and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas the United Nations has, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, proclaimed that everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth therein, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status,

Whereas the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth,

Whereas the need for such special safeguards has been stated in the Geneva Declaration of the Rights of the Child of 1924, and recognized in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in the statutes of specialized agencies and international organizations concerned with the welfare of children,

Whereas mankind owes to the child the best it has to give,
Now therefore,

The General Assembly

Proclaims this Declaration of the Rights of the Child to the end that he may have a happy childhood and enjoy for his own good and for the good of society the rights and freedoms herein set forth, and calls upon parents, upon men and women as individuals, and upon voluntary organizations, local authorities and national Governments to recognize these rights and strive for their observance by legislative and other measures progressively taken in accordance with the following principles:

Principle 1

The child shall enjoy all the rights set forth in this Declaration. Every child, without any exception whatsoever, shall be entitled to these rights, without distinction or discrimination on account of race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status, whether of himself or of his family.

Principle 2

The child shall enjoy special protection, and shall be given opportunities and facilities, by law and by other means, to enable him to develop physically, mentally, morally, spiritually and socially in a healthy and normal manner and in conditions of freedom and dignity. In the enactment of laws for this purpose, the best interests of the child shall be the paramount consideration.

Principle 3

The child shall be entitled from his birth to a name and a nationality.

Principle 4

The child shall enjoy the benefits of social security. He shall be entitled to grow and develop in health; to this end, special care and protection shall be provided both to him and to his mother, including adequate pre-natal and post-natal care. The child shall have the right to adequate nutrition, housing, recreation and medical services.

Principle 5

The child who is physically, mentally or socially handicapped shall be given the special treatment, education and care required by his particular condition.

Principle 6

The child, for the full and harmonious development of his personality, needs love and understanding. He shall, wherever possible, grow up in the care and under the responsibility of his parents, and, in any case, in an atmosphere of affection and of moral and material security; a child of tender years shall not, save in exceptional circumstances, be separated from his mother.

Society and the public authorities shall have the duty to extend particular care to children without a family and to those without adequate means of support. Payment of State and other assistance towards the maintenance of children of large families is desirable.

Principle 7

The child is entitled to receive education, which shall be free and compulsory, at least in the elementary stages. He shall be given an education which will promote his general culture and enable him, on a basis of equal opportunity, to develop his abilities, his individual judgement, and his sense of moral and social responsibility, and to become a useful member of society.

The best interests of the child shall be the guiding principle of those responsible for his education and guidance; that responsibility lies in the first place with his parents.

The child shall have full opportunity for play and recreation, which should be directed to the same purposes as education; society and the public authorities shall endeavour to promote the enjoyment of this right.

Principle 8

The child shall in all circumstances be among the first to receive protection and relief.

Principle 9

The child shall be protected against all forms of neglect, cruelty and exploitation. He shall not be the subject of traffic, in any form.

The child shall not be admitted to employment before an appropriate minimum age; he shall in no case be caused or permitted to engage in any occupation or employment which would prejudice his health or education, or interfere with his physical, mental or moral development.

Principle 10

The child shall be protected from practices which may foster racial, religious and any other form of discrimination. He shall be brought up in a spirit of understanding, tolerance, friendship among peoples, peace and universal brotherhood, and in full consciousness that his energy and talents should be devoted to the service of his fellow men.http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/25.htm

[Пушкарева]

What do you people think of this:

http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=921612&postcount=187

[Hibiscus]

What do you people think of this:

http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=921612&postcount=187

I am sorry for the inconveniences I may bring, but is it possible to translate it in English or Russian? so this way those who barely can read or understand Uzbek, could participate in your thread. :) thank you in advance

[Пушкарева]

One of the users expressed willingness to adopt a child. He is a male.

Another user, a religious female, suggests adopting a young girl, raising her as he wills (what a person he wants to see the girl) and later marry her.

Yeah. What do you think?

According to the religious users, the reiligion does allow that.

My opinion is quite well expressed in that thread.



I am sorry for the inconveniences I may bring, but is it possible to translate it in English or Russian? so this way those who barely can read or understand Uzbek, could participate in your thread. :) thank you in advance

[Hibiscus]

One of the users expressed willingness to adopt a child. He is a male.

Another user, a religious female, suggests adopting a young girl, raising her up according to his standards and later marry her.

Yeah. What do you think? According to the religious users, the reiligion does allow that.

My opinion is quite well expressed in that thread.

With all do respect to all religious people, I just can Not understand it. if you adopt a girl and raise her as your own blood child, give her everything you would give to your blood child, why would you then marry her? It is such a trauma to a child to know that once he was her DAD (since she is raised with the feelings that it is her FATHER), then to call your own FATHER - HUSBAND? isn't it just SICK? I am sorry, if it is allowed in religion, every person has feelings and brains, right? so what kind of feelings do you have to think that it is OK to marry your adopted child? it is so IMMORAL. You gotta be Sick person to do so....it is my opinion....

[Hibiscus]

Funny thing is that HUMAN rejects what Allah said and accepts What "Democrats" says.....

remember, Democrats are not GOD, they are human like you & me!

Conclusion: If Allah says in Quran or Prophet Muhammad SAW says It's ok! Then It's O.k! And we don't have to conclude or make decisions based on DEMOCRATIC LAWS!

And Allah says in Quran


San betta isterika qimasdan, birinchi berilgan javoblarni MAG'ZINI TUSHUNGIN! Hayvoniy demasdan, Agar dinde Ruhsat deyilgan bosa bunady qiling deyilgani emas, prosto bunday qilgansiz HAROM emas deb Dinda togri yol korsatilgan halos, lekin sanga SHUNAQA QIGIN DEYILMAGAN!

p.s Betta Isterika qilib, manbunaqa ekan Din-da man HAYVONIY bolomiman deyish, va INSON o'zi uchun toqib chiqargan QONUNlarni Ko'rsatib man Demokratkaman deyish , bu kulgili emas Achinarli holat!!!

Man hozir aniq esimda yoq lekin bitta Paygambarimizni SAV gaplari bor edi: "Kim Musilmo bo'lmaganlarga "imitatsia" qisa , bas u oshalardandur" deyigal... ubu kim bilsa qoyvorarsila.... :rolleyes:


PSS: Hozirda bizaga SOQOL qoyish xam YOVOYILIKdek ko'rinadi NIMAGA? Sabab DINDAN Uzoqmiz, dinga yaqin bogan odamlar soqol qoyib yurib xech qanday problemasiz yashaydilar...

1. Allah might said that, but YOU personally, would you be able to do it? would you marry your adopted girl? Unless you are some kinda MANIAC, you would have FATHERS feelings towards a girl, and I am sure you won't be able to marry this girl when you raised her as your own daughter, and when she's been calling you all her life "DAD" 2. Have some respect to the girl you are talking with, and learn some manners. Instead of giving her advises that it is ok by religion to marry adopted daughter, read what it says about respect to people you don't know, or never met, especially when they are older than you.

[kitayoza]

bunday o'zbeychada gaplashiyla.
Kim nima devotti, so'kvottimi, maqtavottimi bilib bo'mayapti.

[Пушкарева]

Answer:

http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=922238&postcount=6


isn't it just SICK?

it is so IMMORAL.

You gotta be Sick person to do so....it is my opinion....

[Пушкарева]

Sizga tushnish ham kerak emasga ohshavotti. SIz odammi nickiga qarab "thanks" berib, gapiga tarafdor bolib olasizku.

Topic boyicha gaplashaylik hurmatli ishtirokchilar.

bunday o'zbeychada gaplashiyla.
Kim nima devotti, so'kvottimi, maqtavottimi bilib bo'mayapti.

[Hibiscus]

Answer:

http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=922238&postcount=6

if you translate what he said in his post, that would be great. Cuz i can only guess. But based on my guessing, I can only say, that Blindly fallow everything that says in the Quran or by our prophets, it is just ignorant. I am not trying to disrespect our religion, cuz I myself have fear of GOD, however, GOD gave us ability to THINK and FEEL. If you lost your ability to think, at least fallow your feelings. FATHER (whether he adopted or not) can never marry his child just because he has, very simple to understand, PARENT FEELING. MY LAST OPINION.

[Prince]

1. Allah might said that, but YOU personally, would you be able to do it? would you marry your adopted girl? Unless you are some kinda MANIAC, you would have FATHERS feelings towards a girl, and I am sure you won't be able to marry this girl when you raised her as your own daughter, and when she's been calling you all her life "DAD" 2. Have some respect to the girl you are talking with, and learn some manners. Instead of giving her advises that it is ok by religion to marry adopted daughter, read what it says about respect to people you don't know, or never met, especially when they are older than you.

I want you to understand one thing: If Allah says then IT'S LAW not only FOR ME or for someone who is religious but IT"S LAW for EVERYBODY!!!

Now: If Allah or his Prophet Muhammad SAW says IT's OK then IT"s OK according to LAW! I am sorry but F#CK Democratic laws, Who wrote those? Humans? Thats funny That Human writes LAWs for US? Who are they!? THey are same like you and me! So they dont have right to JUDGE What Allah or His Messanger said!

Now as i undestand you dont speak uzbek or russian, so here is quote from Quran: 3: 132:And obey Allah and the Messenger; that ye may obtain mercy.

Does it say OBEY or LISTEN TO UN? Does it SAY OBEY TO US CONSTITUTION? Or does it Say OBEY to HUMAN WATCH's report? No it does not! It clearly states "Obey ALLAH AND HIS MESSANGER"

Now back to your question: You dont have to do it!!! But if It happens than, It's not HARAM! It's ALLOWED according to Allah!

Now If you doubt that Allah is the best, and Allah knows the best!? Allah created everything, All universal and u think he made mistake here!?

Read this Allah saying to US:

67:3: Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent Allah; then look again, can you see any disorder?

67:4: Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out.


Turn your vision over and over again, Do you see any mistakes!? NO!

Then, we have to obey him! and follow what Muhammad SAW did!

[Hibiscus]

I want you to understand one thing: If Allah says then IT'S LAW not only FOR ME or for someone who is religious but IT"S LAW for EVERYBODY!!!

Now: If Allah or his Prophet Muhammad SAW says IT's OK then IT"s OK according to LAW! I am sorry but F#CK Democratic laws, Who wrote those? Humans? Thats funny That Human writes LAWs for US? Who are they!? THey are same like you and me! So they dont have right to JUDGE What Allah or His Messanger said!

Now as i undestand you dont speak uzbek or russian, so here is quote from Quran: 3: 132:And obey Allah and the Messenger; that ye may obtain mercy.

Does it say OBEY or LISTEN TO UN? Does it SAY OBEY TO US CONSTITUTION? Or does it Say OBEY to HUMAN WATCH's report? No it does not! It clearly states "Obey ALLAH AND HIS MESSANGER"

Now back to your question: You dont have to do it!!! But if It happens than, It's not HARAM! It's ALLOWED according to Allah!

Now If you doubt that Allah is the best, and Allah knows the best!? Allah created everything, All universal and u think he made mistake here!?

Read this Allah saying to US:

67:3: He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

67:4: Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out.


Turn your vision over and over again, Do you see any mistakes!? NO!

Then, we have to obey him! and follow what Muhammad SAW did!

I understand..I got what you are trying to say...However, tell me, would be able to do it? Would you be able to marry you adopted child? What feelings you had towards that child while you were raising her? Unless you raised some kinda Horse (sorry for the comparison), with the purpose to use it in the future, you can not raise your child with the thoughts that one day in the future you will make her your wife. Simple as it is, you have to have some feelings as a PARENT right?

[kitayoza]

Sizga tushnish ham kerak emasga ohshavotti. SIz odammi nickiga qarab "thanks" berib, gapiga tarafdor bolib olasizku.

Topic boyicha gaplashaylik hurmatli ishtirokchilar.

man tarafdorligim, o'ziz bilmagan masalada shov shuv qilmang deganidir honim.
Sal og'ir bosu bo'ling. Bilaman aqilliysiz. Lekin aqilni har yerda pesh qilish ham yaxshi emas, tem bolee din masalasida. ok!

[Prince]

I understand..I got what you are trying to say...However, tell me, would be able to do it? Would you be able to marry you adopted child? What feelings you had towards that child while you were raising her? Unless you raised some kinda Horse (sorry for the comparison), with the purpose to use it in the future, you can not raise your child with the thoughts that one day in the future you will make her your wife. Simple as it is, you have to have some feelings as a PARENT right?

YOU DONT HAVE TO DO IT!!, Why cant you undestand it!? YOU DONT HAVE TO DO IT!!!!! IF U DONT FEEL LIKE!Dont do it! BUT IF U FEEL it's not HARAM! It's ALLOWED according to Nabiy! Me? Personally i dont feel like.., and i was surprised that it's allowed, and somebody told me today! And i am kind of shock!

But one thing i want you all to undestand: That WE DONT HAVE TO GIVE QUOTES from DEMOCRATIC or UN's LAWS about Children RIGHTS and all that crap!! Who are they!? Nobody , so forget about what UN or US says... screw it!!! Obey Allah and His Messanger!!

Again one more time: IF U DONT FEEL LIEK DOING IT YOU DONT HAVE TO or you are not obligated to do it!!! YOU ARE OBLIGATED TO PRAY 5 TIMES a day , Fast during Ramadan, go to Hajj and Pay Zakah! But This thing is OPTIONAL!! If you do it , IT's NOT HARAM!

end of story!

[SAMARKANDI!]

I understand..I got what you are trying to say...However, tell me, would be able to do it? Would you be able to marry you adopted child? What feelings you had towards that child while you were raising her? Unless you raised some kinda Horse (sorry for the comparison), with the purpose to use it in the future, you can not raise your child with the thoughts that one day in the future you will make her your wife. Simple as it is, you have to have some feelings as a PARENT right?

Ok, here ya go, I can do it, OK. IF IF IF I see a child in a wrong/bad/violent environment, where she would MOST probably grow up as a slave/drug addict/prostitute/abused i would adopt her if I am physically and financially able to do so. Then after she grows up, reaches that age to marry, I would FIRST try to find her a decent man. And ONLY if i can not find anyone that I trust or she is willing to marry, as a last resort I would offer her myself. And again as a last resort. That’s how I CAN DO IT. and that’s what In my opinion is allowed. It is not that you just go out, find a child, raise her and get married, not at all, only as a last or safest resort.

[Hibiscus]

Prince.

Give me a Quote from the Quron where it says "You are allowed by Allah to marry your adopted child" not a SLAVE but ur CHILD. ok That "crap" as you call it, was summed based on religions, based on OBSHEPRINYATIE PONYATIA that actually ARE based on RELIGION.

[Unique]

YOU DONT HAVE TO DO IT!!

end of story!
Who, do you mean, doesn't have to do it? The child or the "father"? :)
What if the "father" wants to do it, but the child doesn't?

Let's look at this issue from the child's point:

If you were an adopted girl by a man, who raised you till you turned 18-19, then he decides to marry you. Let's say, that it's permitted in Islam, but doesn't it still feel eerie to you (the adopted girl) to marry someone, whom you used to call "Dad" for 18 years?

I personally couldn't cope with it.

PS. Maybe the child should be warned beforehand and be prepared for the upcoming event. (So that she would never accept her host as "father."):rolleyes:

[Hibiscus]

Go to that thread, read all posts , user gave everything there, and she made it clear!!!

p.s tut ya ne sporyu kto prav ili kto net, ya goovryu esli Muhammad SAW ili Allah skazal chto eto MOJNO! Znachit MoJno! esli net to net!! Vot i vse! Idi pochitay, mne len idti zanovo vse chitat i iskat!

Spasibo!

I did read, but the quote say "SLAVE" not adopted child. unless I didn't understand it clearly, u are welcome to put that quote again.

[SAMARKANDI!]

Who, do you mean, doesn't have to do it? The child or the "father"? :)
What if the "father" wants to do it, but the child doesn't?

Let's look at this issue from the child's point:

If you were an adopted girl by a man, who raised you till you turned 18-19, then he decides to marry you. Let's say, that it's permitted in Islam, but doesn't it still feel eerie to you (the adopted girl) to marry someone, whom you used to call "Dad" for 18 years?

I personally couldn't cope with it.

PS. Maybe the child should be warned beforehand and be prepared for the upcoming event. :rolleyes:

If a qizbola, not a woman, is against marrying someone (anyone), then noone should/can/must force her. period.

[Unique]

If a qizbola, not a woman, is against marrying someone (anyone), then noone should/can/must force her. period.

Exactly. Well, there are many girls being forced to an unwanted marriage which is sort of acceptable compared to this situation.

[Hibiscus]

Ok, here ya go, I can do it, OK. IF IF IF I see a child in a wrong/bad/violent environment, where she would MOST probably grow up as a slave/drug addict/prostitute/abused i would adopt her if I am physically and financially able to do so. Then after she grows up, reaches that age to marry, I would FIRST try to find her a decent man. And ONLY if i can not find anyone that I trust or she is willing to marry, as a last resort I would offer her myself. And again as a last resort. That’s how I CAN DO IT. and that’s what In my opinion is allowed. It is not that you just go out, find a child, raise her and get married, not at all, only as a last or safest resort.

I would rather shoot myself, then think this way. Last resort? I think she would rather prefer to stay single never marry, than marry her own father, that she thought is raising her as a father. I think you guys, are all misunderstand what it is really says in the Quran.

[Magnolia]

One of the users expressed willingness to adopt a child. He is a male.

Another user, a religious female, suggests adopting a young girl, raising her as he wills (what a person he wants to see the girl) and later marry her.

Yeah. What do you think?

According to the religious users, the reiligion does allow that.

My opinion is quite well expressed in that thread.

Pardon me,I just felt nauseous.
It is a very sick idea to adopt a child,raise as your own and then marry her/him...Would you do that to your own child?
I mean you love your own child unconditionally because he/she came from you and your spouse directly and you'd never think of something such as marrying your own blood child,so if you adopted a child and decided to marry her/him it defines you guilty of pedophilia.
It might be allowed by religion but it shouldn't be allowed by you.

Conscience,people...conscience.

[Magnolia]

Ok, here ya go, I can do it, OK. IF IF IF I see a child in a wrong/bad/violent environment, where she would MOST probably grow up as a slave/drug addict/prostitute/abused i would adopt her if I am physically and financially able to do so. Then after she grows up, reaches that age to marry, I would FIRST try to find her a decent man. And ONLY if i can not find anyone that I trust or she is willing to marry, as a last resort I would offer her myself. And again as a last resort. That’s how I CAN DO IT. and that’s what In my opinion is allowed. It is not that you just go out, find a child, raise her and get married, not at all, only as a last or safest resort.

Oh my :shock:
Im speechless.

[SAMARKANDI!]

I would rather shoot myself, then think this way. Last resort? I think she would rather prefer to stay single never marry, than marry her own father, that she thought is raising her as a father. I think you guys, are all misunderstand what it is really says in the Quran.

Very good. She can stay single if she chooses so. Noone as I said above should/can/must force her. I said just an offer. As a muslim though, she and everyone else should know that its highly recommended to marry.

Exactly. Well, there are many girls being forced to an unwanted marriage which is sort of acceptable compared to this situation.

Well that is exactly why people think Islam says so. Whoever does it, is not following the Quran and Sunnah, but realizing his/her desires, dreams.

[Frida]

Prince, o'zingizni bosvoling. Bunaqa qil, unaqa qil deb aqil o'rgatmang. Hammani o'zini miyasi bor. Nima deb o'ylasa o'shani aytyapti. Nima endi, hamma narsaga ko'r-ko'rona yondashib ketaverar ekande. Diniy tomondan gapiraman deganda mavzuni din tredida ochardi, bu yerda ochibdimi, demak odamlarning fikrini so'raypati.

Masalan, men qarshiman. Hadisda yoziladimi yo'qmi, menga farqi yo'q. Bolani boqib olib, onalik-otalik qilib keyin unga erlik-xotinlik qilish noto'g'ri deb hisoblayman [biror yoshga yetguncha!!!] Masalan, o'sha farzand 18ga kirib o'zi mana shunday fikrga kelsa, unda katta ko'cha. Lekin qizni farzanddek o'stirib, fiziologik balog'atga yetgandan keyin unga uylanib olishni men hech qachon tushunmayman. Qayerdan olib "quote" qilishingizdan qat'iy nazar.

[SAMARKANDI!]

Oh my :shock:
Im speechless.

I can even chop someone's head off or hang if I must do so, within the rules of Islam with a valid verdict.

[Пушкарева]

Man ozimmi fikrimmi bildirib, boshqa odamlani fikrini bilish uchun shu mavzuni ko'tardim.



man tarafdorligim, o'ziz bilmagan masalada shov shuv qilmang deganidir honim.
Sal og'ir bosu bo'ling. Bilaman aqilliysiz. Lekin aqilni har yerda pesh qilish ham yaxshi emas, tem bolee din masalasida. ok!

[Frida]

I can even chop someone's head off or hang if I must do so, within the rules of Islam with a valid verdict.

______________ no comment_________________

[Magnolia]

I can even chop someone's head off or hang if I must do so, within the rules of Islam with a valid verdict.

comment withheld.

[Hibiscus]

I can even chop someone's head off or hang if I must do so, within the rules of Islam with a valid verdict.

GOOD FOR YOU man. GOD BLESS YOU :lol:

[eusko]

I can even chop someone's head off or hang if I must do so, within the rules of Islam with a valid verdict.
Please, don't shock the girls that much. :D

[SAMARKANDI!]

Allah bless us All. :D

[Пушкарева]

Exactly! This is what pisses me off, you know.

Few people take the side of some religious provision (which I, personally, do not accept) that allows marrying an adopted child. So I provided a hypothetical case to those people: they get in an accident and die and their kids (girls) are adopted by an adult man who raises them up the way he wants to see them in the near future. The question was - would they want that adult (and by the time kids grow up, an old man) marry and thus have sex with the kid who trusted in that person, loved and accepted him as own FATHER.

Only one person, after extensive pressure from my sides, and very vaguely provided he would agree (those who observed the other dispute, correct me if I am wrong).

I still cannot get answer of the other two, which proves - they do allow the idea of an orphan marry her adopted father (where the father makes the decision), but do not aswer if they'd agree the same happen to their own child.

Now, do I understand it correct: they do not wish (are hesitant) to comply with the religion when it comes to their own child/ren, but beat in the chest saying "if religion says so - it should be done" when it comes to an orphan?

Is it what a decent person who fears God should do? Discriminate children?

Why they let such thoughts regarding orphans and cannot answer when you provide hypothetical cases with their own kids?



Pardon me,I just felt nauseous.
It is a very sick idea to adopt a child,raise as your own and then marry her/him...Would you do that to your own child?
I mean you love your own child unconditionally because he/she came from you and your spouse directly and you'd never think of something such as marrying your own blood child,so if you adopted a child and decided to marry her/him it defines you guilty of pedophilia.
It might be allowed by religion but it shouldn't be allowed by you.

Conscience,people...conscience.

[Frida]

Siz yaratgan emassizki , sizzi fikriz bilan ortoqlashsak, siz qarshi bosez nima qili!? :rolleyes: Unda ertaga sizga oxshagan AQLLIladan 2 tasi chiqadide man manbunaqa usulini yaxshi koraman diydi..., unda nima boladi? Xamma o'ziniki Tolkat qiluradi, huddi hozirgi dunyoga oxshab!! XAmma o'zicha XAQ! Sizam hozir O'zizzi VARIANTIZZI bervos!! Eee BARAKA TOPGUR!! SIZ YARATGAN EMASSIZ, shundai ekan "MANGA HADITH BERASANMI OYAT BERASANMI MANGA PO...." diyishga XAQQIZ YOQ! Tushunarlimi!? BANDASIZ , YARATGAN EMAS!!!

P.S: Aql orgatishga keladigan bosak, man aql orgatvotganim yoq, man fikrimmi bildirvoman, YOQMAYAPTIMI!? QARAMEN , UQIMEN! hopmi? Xech kim sizzi boynizga arqon solib , Oqigin Prince'ni postini divotgani yoq!


GAPIMGA TOBA QILDIMU LEKIN BETTA XAMMA AQLLI , XECH AHMOSI YOQ!! TOBA QILDIM XAMMA XAQ! XAMMA ZAMONAVIY , ILGOR BILIMLI VA OLIY MALUMOTLI INSONLAR!!! Kechirasilayu, oramizada eng "Ahmosi" Kitayoza bn Shokir aka bosala ajabmas ::rolleyes::rolleyes: YOVVOYIMUSH! :twisted:


To'g'ri, aytasiz, o'qimagan yaxshi. Kechirasiz! :?:rolleyes: o'qib qo'yibmiz. Ikkinchi hech qilmaymizda. Forumning yaxshi tugmalari bor.

[Magnolia]

Now, do I understand it correct: they do not wish (hesitant) to comply with the religion when it comes to their own child/ren, but beat in the chest saying "if religion says so - it should be let" when it comes to an orphan?


Thats harsh reality of human nature...we only seem to care about our direct family but not about others...
Im sorry but to me it is a sick idea in any case it is presented.

[Aziz]

Nezabudka....
I want you to add this pics to your post. And keep in mind who's playing with fake weapons and who's playing with REAL ones.
http://www.fpnp.net/pics/2824.jpg
http://www.fpnp.net/pics/2825.jpg

[Uyyonli]

I can even chop someone's head off or hang if I must do so, within the rules of Islam with a valid verdict.
My Man!!! There should be a judge to let you do that legally in Islam :twisted:
You want a blood come and get it. I'll give u rivers of blood, only the ''haram'' blood. u understand what i mean?

[Пушкарева]

Are There Active And Just Modertors In This Board?

If So, Few People Should Be Warned For Flood, Insulting Behaviour And Offtops.

[Frida]

as soon as you say that you do not agree with something they start bashing you, and calling you names. do you have to proof that your opinion is the correct one? i personally think that whole "adopting and marrying the orphan" deal is wrong, it is just my opinion. i do not have to justify it. and you do not have to show me that i am wrong citing some stuff from "evil democratic world". it is not going to change my mind.

[Uyyonli]

Yigitlar o'ylab ko'ringlar agar shu yetim qizni olib unga qiz(doughter)dek tarbiya bersanggiz, go'dakligidan, u qiz sizni farzandinggiz ahir shundaymasmu? Bu yerdagi forum qizlari ham shuni etyabdi. Bu yerda ular sizlarga etmayobdi-yu "bizga demokratik qonunlar kerak deb". Ular tan olishyabdi "ha bu din qoidalariga binoan to'g'ri lekin buning hunofligi bor deyishyabdi". Vassalom. Janjal tugatinglar.as soon as you say that you do not agree with something they start bashing you, and calling you names. do you have to proof that your opinion is the correct one? i personally think that whole "adopting and marrying the orphan" deal is wrong, it is just my opinion. i do not have to justify it. and you do not have to show me that i am wrong citing some stuff from "evil democratic world". it is not going to change my mind.

[Unique]

6) What do you think of such issues as:

- children warriors;
- children workers;
- children - victims of sex trafficking;
- teenager crime;



We've been witnessing such heartbreaking issues in many countries (mostly in the underdeveloped countries.)
How does the UN Declaration work (post#2) in those countries and if so, who will be judged/punished for using children as soldiers/workers?
I don't know much about the UN rules, maybe you guys could elaborate it a bit. :)

[~Atirgul~]

Oдин американский кинорежиссёр тоже так женился на приёмной дочери своей жены. моё личное мнение если девушка совершеннолетняя, и если сама хочет замуж, то это их личное дело. хотя как-то не этично

[Uyyonli]

We've been witnessing such heartbreaking issues in many countries (mostly in the underdeveloped countries.)
How does the UN Declaration work (post#2) in those countries and if so, who will be judged/punished for using children as soldiers/workers?
I don't know much about the UN rules, maybe you guys could elaborate it a bit. :)
u see? this issue is not about religion or other stuff, but it is about undeveloped countrie's problems. Means UN should focus developing those countries and help the to get into much more technologically advanced in order to prevent these things. But when it comes to childeren warriors, then it's a different issue because Palistine is one of the countries unfortunately been strugling against Israil's occupation and EXPANSION IN THEIR LANDS



ps: why should i always come to end the arguments and oftopps? Moderaters having a vacation?

[SAMARKANDI!]

as soon as you say that you do not agree with something they start bashing you, and calling you names. do you have to proof that your opinion is the correct one? i personally think that whole "adopting and marrying the orphan" deal is wrong, it is just my opinion. i do not have to justify it. and you do not have to show me that i am wrong citing some stuff from "evil democratic world". it is not going to change my mind.

I just wanted to let know that it is not the type of adoption that non-muslims practice.

[kitayoza]

Yigitlar o'ylab ko'ringlar agar hu yetim qizni olib unga qiz(doughter)dek tarbiya bersanggiz, go'dakligidan, u qiz sizni farzandinggiz ahir shundaymasmu? Bu yerdagi forum qizlari ham shuni etyabdi. Bu yerda ular sizlarga etmayobdi-yu "bizga demokratik qonunlar kerak deb". Ular tan olishyabdi "ha bu din qoidalariga binoan to'g'ri lekin buning hunofligi bor deyishyabdi". Vassalom. Janjal tugatinglar.

ma'qul gap.
Agar bu masala yani boqib olgan qizga uylanish masalasi Quron va hadis bilan sobit bo'gan masala bo'ganda edi, oyhonlarning gapi bir tiyin bo'lar edi.
Lekin bu masalani dalilini hali ham bilmagan holda, hamda ochiqcha oyat va hadis bilan kelmagani uchun honimkalarga qarshi qattu gap qimiymiz.
Albatta fitratan bu hato ish.
15 yil kak qizim deb boqasande keyin raz i uylanib hotin qivosang.

Shunga oypariyla unaqa bizadan hapa bo'meyla...:D

[Пушкарева]

Ya smotryu na eto iskluchitelno s tochki zreniya priemnogo rebenka. Na to, kakaya eto budet dlya neyo psihologicheskaya i moralnaya travma.


Ne day Bog, no stavya sebya na mesto takogo rebenka, i ne imeya vozmozhnosti obratitsya v pravozashitniye organi (nu esli razreshaetsya takoye, to znachit obrashatsya za pomoshyu zakona, pravosudiya i polic e- bespolezno), to ya bi committed a suicide if I were forced to marry the man who raised me as his daugther.

And I do believe, there might be other kids who, alas, get into such situations and might think/do the same.


Point - stavit rebenka na pervoye mesto, a ne svoi plotskiye jelaniya i ispolzovanie strochek/abzacev iz knijek, kotorim net dokazatelstva kem oin bili napisani/sostavleni. A slepo verit vsemu chto napisano -- eto uej udel ubogih i mentalno ogranichennih. HUdoni ozi kechirsin.

Oдин американский кинорежиссёр тоже так женился на приёмной дочери своей жены. моё личное мнение если девушка совершеннолетняя, и если сама хочет замуж, то это их личное дело. хотя как-то не этично

[Uyyonli]

ma'qul gap.
Agar bu masala yani boqib olgan qizga uylanish masalasi Quron va hadis bilan sobit bo'gan masala bo'ganda edi, oyhonlarning gapi bir tiyin bo'lar edi.
Lekin bu masalani dalilini hali ham bilmagan holda, hamda ochiqcha oyat va hadis bilan kelmagani uchun honimkalarga qarshi qattu gap qimiymiz.
Albatta fitratan bu hato ish.
15 yil kak qizim deb boqasande keyin raz i uylanib hotin qivosang.

Shunga oypariyla unaqa bizadan hapa bo'meyla...:D
mayli dinda bunga ruhsat brilgan, buni ayollarimiz tushinib olishdi.

Kitayoza aka sizga hayron qoldim nima endi ahir o'ylab ko'ring shu bolaykayni 15 boqasizde keyin u sizni qizingiz yo'q desa sharmanda bulasiz-ku ahir qiz yo'q disa dinimiz bizga ruhsat bermaydi. Innan keyin bu qizinggizni yuziga qanday boqasiz, ahir sizni ota deb qarasachi? yoki uni tarbiyaga olganingizda "senga uylanish men seni boqyabman" deysizmi?

[Uyyonli]

lanmisiz. manam shunaqa divommanku!:D
usta man tushinmay qolibman-de ;)
keyin haligi "bolalarni Kalashnikovlarni ko'tarib urushga chiqishi haqida" fikringgizni bilmoqchiman. Hullas temani boshqa tomonga o'zgartiraylik :)

[Faysal]

mayli dinda bunga ruhsat brilgan, buni ayollarimiz tushinib olishdi.

Kitayoza aka sizga hayron qoldim nima endi ahir o'ylab ko'ring shu bolaykayni 15 boqasizde keyin u sizni qizingiz yo'q desa sharmanda bulasiz-ku ahir qiz yo'q disa dinimiz bizga ruhsat bermaydi. Innan keyin bu qizinggizni yuziga qanday boqasiz, ahir sizni ota deb qarasachi? yoki uni tarbiyaga olganingizda "senga uylanish men seni boqyabman" deysizmi?
Dinimiz bizga ruxsat bermaydi degan joyiga, umuman olganda postni ma'nosiga tushunmadim. Nima deb ta'kidlamoqchsiz? Boqib olgan odam bilan va qaramog'iga kirgan qiz bilan, dinda nikohga ruxsat yo'q demoqchimisiz?

[AL-Midwest]

Honestly I had no clew about that Islam does not denonces such action as marrying your adopted child. These type of actions might be appropriate back in a days, but i am sure most of the people would feel uncomfortable.
One of our forum members said that if you don't feel like doing it then you shouldn't, but at the same time challenged everyone who questions the scripts on our religious books.
My oppinion, you have a right to express your thoughts and doubts on any issue and those who has a deep knowledge on that issue should try to explain the rule on more constructive way rather than acting emotionally.
Since we are humans and have conscious we tend to be curious and question things, so far it worked out for us quite well - we havent destroyed each other yet-)
The last thing I would like to add that I believe in Islam but my cousin even though he is Uzbek he is an atheist, I didn't want to try change his view because he is more mature than me, I believe the time will show who is right and I except him plus respect the way he is. Him not believing to Allah didn't make him a worse person, he is a more man than the most men I was surrounded before.

[Faysal]

usta man tushinmay qolibman-de ;)
keyin haligi "bolalarni Kalashnikovlarni ko'tarib urushga chiqishi haqida" fikringgizni bilmoqchiman. Hullas temani boshqa tomonga o'zgartiraylik :)
Uhud jangida, Rasululloh sollallohu alayhi vasallam 7 yoshli go'dak, qilich va urush anjomlarini qo'liga olib: "Men ham qatnashaman" deganida, sollallohu alayhi vasallam rad javobini berganlar.

[Uyyonli]

Dinimiz bizga ruxsat bermaydi degan joyiga, umuman olganda postni ma'nosiga tushunmadim. Nima deb ta'kidlamoqchsiz? Boqib olgan odam bilan va qaramog'iga kirgan qiz bilan, dinda nikohga ruxsat yo'q demoqchimisiz?
bir gapni yana bir marotaba takrorlab, yoki tushuntirishni juda hush ko'rmayman-de :lol: Ayniqsa savolinggizga tushinmasam :lool: hazil.
yo'q man etvoman "ha dinimizda ruhsat berilgan" ammo bu vijdonan qiyin narsa deb.

[SAMARKANDI!]

Honestly I had no clew about that Islam does not denonces such action as marrying your adopted child. These type of actions might be appropriate back in a days, but i am sure most of the people would feel uncomfortable.
One of our forum members said that if you don't feel like doing it then you shouldn't, but at the same time challenged everyone who questions the scripts on our religious books.
My oppinion, you have a right to express your thoughts and doubts on any issue and those who has a deep knowledge on that issue should try to explain the rule on more constructive way rather than acting emotionally.
Since we are humans and have conscious we tend to be curious and question things, so far it worked out for us quite well - we havent destroyed each other yet-)
The last thing I would like to add that I believe in Islam but my cousin even though he is Uzbek he is an atheist, I didn't want to try change his view because he is more mature than me, I believe the time will show who is right and I except him plus respect the way he is. Him not believing to Allah didn't make him a worse person, he is a more man than the most men I was surrounded before.

As i mentioned above, it is not the kind of adoption most of us understand. The type of adoption you and many here, are talking about i.e. you accept a child as your son or daughter is forbidden in Islam.

The adoption that Islam refers is taking care of a child without accepting him/her as your own child. You do almost everything the same, you feed, buy things for them, give place to live and call home but dont accept as your own children. In other words she/he will not be your mahram.

[Uyyonli]

As i mentioned above, it is not the kind of adoption most of us understand. The type of adoption you and many here, are talking about i.e. you accept a child as your son or daughter is forbidden in Islam.

The adoption that Islam refers is taking care of a child without accepting him/her as your own child. You do almost everything the same, you feed, buy things for them, give place to live and call home but dont accept as your own children. In other words she/he will not be your mahram.
How is that possible? u keep them at home but u hire somebody to take care of them? u pay buy food and etc and stuff.

[AL-Midwest]

As i mentioned above, it is not the kind of adoption most of us understand. The type of adoption you and many here, are talking about i.e. you accept a child as your son or daughter is forbidden in Islam.

The adoption that Islam refers is taking care of a child without accepting him/her as your own child. You do almost everything the same, you feed, buy things for them, give place to live and call home but dont accept as your own children. In other words she/he will not be your mahram.

Thanks for claryfing that, but I see that you have soem substancial knowledge on our religion, so I was wondering have you ever had any situation when you questioned or felt uncomfortable with certain statements in Qur'an?
Please don't think I am trying to offend you it's just a question
thanks

[SAMARKANDI!]

Thanks for claryfing that, but I see that you have soem substancial knowledge on our religion, so I was wondering have you ever had any situation when you questioned or felt uncomfortable with certain statements in Qur'an?
Please don't think I am trying to offend you it's just a question
thanks

Firstly, just to let know, I am not very knowledgeable, I speak for what I have read, heard or discussed before, otherwise I am like you, I ask questions.

Yes there are many things in Quran I still dont understand, that dont make sense to me i.e. hard to comprehend. Some of them have been clarified over time as i invastigated more or helped by others. I strongly believe that everything in Quran makes very good sense, we just have to search and think objectively and harder.

How is that possible? u keep them at home but u hire somebody to take care of them? u pay buy food and etc and stuff.

Before you "adopt" anyone, you first think if u are able to provide and take care of them in accordance with Shariah rules. If u can, then u can hire people to take care of them, or do it urself, you can buy separate home or invite them to your own home (hoping, once u r able to do that, u will have more than one room in ur house)

[abcd]

Couple points Nezabudka,
1. Why are you posting images of some kids from unknown countries and regions where you could find similar images regarding your topic picturing uzbek children.
2. Have you heard about Woody Allen? He is famous director whose films you might have watched and loved it. Why you are discussing theoretical ifs and and why's when you can just bring the real life example and discuss him.
3. The social norms you may adhere maybe quite different for other people. What I am trying to say is things that may sound common sense for you maybe very barbaric and unacceptable for others, and obviously vice versa. Plus you should take into account the time factor.

[uzbekcfa2]

Hollywood star Woody Allen is married to an adopted girl by his ex-wife....so when he was with his ex-wife, he was the "father" of that girl. The adopted girl grew up and when she reached 22, Woody Allen married her. Woody Allen - starichok:)

so it's not only in islamic world. However, i think this is the most stupid thing ever. How can you claim being a husband when you have been a father for many years. the most ridiculuous thing.

[uzbekcfa2]

Hollywood star Woody Allen is married to an adopted girl by his ex-wife....so when he was with his ex-wife, he was the "father" of that girl. The adopted girl grew up and when she reached 22, Woody Allen married her. Woody Allen - starichok:)

so it's not only in islamic world. However, i think this is the most stupid thing ever. How can you claim being a husband when you have been a father for many years. the most ridiculuous thing.


when i posted this, I did just read the first page of the thread...so lazy these days...(besides, forum sucks, yeah yeah, it sucks:lol: Im glad that im the only one who says that:D)

so sorry for repeating the same thing about woody allen...and again, it's wrong to marry an adopted child.

[eusko]

Ya smotryu na eto iskluchitelno s tochki zreniya priemnogo rebenka. Na to, kakaya eto budet dlya neyo psihologicheskaya i moralnaya travma.


Ne day Bog, no stavya sebya na mesto takogo rebenka, i ne imeya vozmozhnosti obratitsya v pravozashitniye organi (nu esli razreshaetsya takoye, to znachit obrashatsya za pomoshyu zakona, pravosudiya i polic e- bespolezno), to ya bi committed a suicide if I were forced to marry the man who raised me as his daugther.

And I do believe, there might be other kids who, alas, get into such situations and might think/do the same.


Point - stavit rebenka na pervoye mesto, a ne svoi plotskiye jelaniya i ispolzovanie strochek/abzacev iz knijek, kotorim net dokazatelstva kem oin bili napisani/sostavleni. A slepo verit vsemu chto napisano -- eto uej udel ubogih i mentalno ogranichennih. HUdoni ozi kechirsin.

Да просто у людей богатое воображение, вот и перевернули, превратив строки про наложниц в строки которые удобны для них и для их плотских желаний. А между прочем интерпретировать и переиначивать строки Корана на свой лад - страшный грех. Вообще одиноким мужикам нельзя давать удочерять, только усыновлять. В Исламе должны уважаться права и желания женщин. Но традиции зачастую несут обратное и к женщине действительно относятся как к рабыне. Такие традиции надо искоренять.

[eusko]

Couple points Nezabudka,
1. Why are you posting images of some kids from unknown countries and regions where you could find similar images regarding your topic picturing uzbek children.
2. Have you heard about Woody Allen? He is famous director whose films you might have watched and loved it. Why you are discussing theoretical ifs and and why's when you can just bring the real life example and discuss him.
3. The social norms you may adhere maybe quite different for other people. What I am trying to say is things that may sound common sense for you maybe very barbaric and unacceptable for others, and obviously vice versa. Plus you should take into account the time factor.

Dear, abcd. We are discussing globally. Children are children everywhere, not only in Uzbekistan. :cool:

[Пушкарева]

1) I posted the images that I found googling. The topic is not specific to Uzbekistan, but an overal issue.

2) PLease open a separate thread of whatever interest you have and discuss anything you like. I picked what I wanted. Never knew I had to check with others whether I can open a certain thread and agree if it complies with their interests (Woody Allen, in your case).

3) What time factor you mean? Sorry, did not get it.


Couple points Nezabudka,
1. Why are you posting images of some kids from unknown countries and regions where you could find similar images regarding your topic picturing uzbek children.
2. Have you heard about Woody Allen? He is famous director whose films you might have watched and loved it. Why you are discussing theoretical ifs and and why's when you can just bring the real life example and discuss him.
3. The social norms you may adhere maybe quite different for other people. What I am trying to say is things that may sound common sense for you maybe very barbaric and unacceptable for others, and obviously vice versa. Plus you should take into account the time factor.

[Silence]

1) At what age do you think the child should get an authority to make own decisions affecting his/her life?

2) How old is your child and what extent of freedom in terms of (any) choice does s/he have in her life?

3) Do you use physical power in response to your child's misconduct?

4) Did your parents use physical power when you disobeyed as a kid?

5) Do you agree with the UN Declaration of Children's Rights stated in the post #2? Why?

6) What do you think of such issues as:

- children warriors;
- children workers;
- children - victims of sex trafficking;
- teenager crime;


7) Your other comments on the topic.



1. С того момента как научится говорить и сможет точно дать понять какого мнения придерживается по тому или иному поводу. Конечно более или менее серьезные решения такие как выбор школы, кружка, подчас определенного круга общения остаются за родителями пока чаду не стукнет лет эдак 8-10. Просто потому что дети непосредственные и подчас весьма ветренные существа (сужу по себе в детстве, да и не только в детстве) и раздумывать подолгу о преимуществах/недостатках того или иного варианта не будут и ляпнут как им Бог на душу положит, а последствия могут быть всякие. Мои родители помнится особо не усердствовали в принуждении, школу я выбрала сама, музыкалку также отвергла сама. В основном пропадала на улице, но выросла вроде без особых изьянов (как в физическом так и в умственном плане).
2. Камке - 3 года с хвостиком. Ее я стараюсь не принуждать ВООБЩЕ. Поясню на примере: нельзя сказать: "Все детское время кончилось - в кровать!", будет много криков (до хрипоты и икания), лягания (больно же!) и прочей ненужней отрицательной энергии. Ритуал таков: попрощаться с мультиками и игрушками, так как они устали и им пора спать, попить Несквика (она от него отказываться не станет в любое время суток) и после я ложусь спать и прошу ее решить когда она сможет ко мне присоединиться. Ребенок при таком раскладе чувствует себя хозяином положения, а потому спокойно допивает Несквик, проходит по комнатам говоря всем "Каманочи!" (ее вариант "спокойной ночи") и ложится в кроватку. Она же выбирает куда мы едем ее выгуливать, что ей надевать (за редким исключением). Ну ежедневные порции шоколада я пока все же определяю сама (избыток демократии тоже зло знаете ли).
3. По попе шлепаю - результата ноль. Лучше отрезвляет молодую правонарушительницу полный игнор с моей стороны (помню об этом еще Джон Леннон говорил: "Самое ужасное когда моя тетя делала вид, что меня не существует"). Могу ущипнуть в ответ если она намеренно щипает меня, пусть понимает, что кому то может быть больно от ее необдуманных действий. Ремни, тапки и прочие причиндалы в ход не идут потому как:
а) Рискованно (что там в подсознании может кликнуть шут его знает).
б) В семье не принято.
4. Бросались тапками и прочими предметами под рукой, действовало плохо -я быстро бегала. Могли по попе шлепнуть, другие части излишне выпирали и бить меня голыми руками было больно :) Никаких ремней, мокрых полотенец и прыгалок не было. В общем благодарю своих близких за счастливое, бесшабашное, неуемное детство. Страшно бывало только от одного...папиного...взгляда.
5. Острые проблемы вроде:
- children warriors;
- children workers;
- children - victims of sex trafficking;
- teenager crime;

будут всегда, никакие декларации этому не помеха. Выход (один из бесконечного множества) - повышать благосостояние населения, общий уровень жизни. О том насколько цивилизовано и развито общество можно сказать судя по его отношению к пожилым и детям. И самое главное - искоренять равнодушие - в этом видется просвет. Но это конечно занятие неблагодарное, долгое, нудное, там такие пласты переворачивать надо.

[Пушкарева]

Spasibo Silence. Your post is a very good example of what kind of discussion I anticipated opening the thread.

With best regards,

PS: Tak legko na serdce, kogda ludi tebya ponimayut: kakiye ti zadayosh voprosi, chto staraeshsya obsudit, kakuyu temu podnyat i pochemu. Kak eto vazhno - umet "govorit na odnom yazike"

[Glance]

1) At what age do you think the child should get an authority to make own decisions affecting his/her life?

2) How old is your child and what extent of freedom in terms of (any) choice does s/he have in her life?

3) Do you use physical power in response to your child's misconduct?

4) Did your parents use physical power when you disobeyed as a kid?

5) Do you agree with the UN Declaration of Children's Rights stated in the post #2? Why?

6) What do you think of such issues as:

- children warriors;
- children workers;
- children - victims of sex trafficking;
- teenager crime;


7) Your other comments on the topic.

Let's share thoughts. You may select one sub-topic to elaborate.


NB: Was inspired to open the thread based on the following discussion:
http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=921612&postcount=187


1) Ota-ona farzandi balog'atga yetgunicha doim farzandlariga g'amhorlik qilib kelishi shartligi hammaga ma'lum, hamma buni tan oladi nazarimda. Shu nuqtai nazardan kelib chiqqan holda, o'ylaymanki tahminan 18 yoshda farzandlarga biron bir muhim qaror qabul qilishga ruhsat bersa bo'ladi. Lekin asosan bu narsa masala aynan nimada ekanligiga, farzandingizning qanday fikr yuritishiga bog'liq. Ayrimlar juda yosh paytidanoq mustaqil, aqli juda raso va fikrlash doirasi keng bo'ladi. Bunday farzandlar uchun qaror qabul qilishni ularga bemalol topshirsangiz bo'ladi. Ayrimlar esa yoshi katta bo'lsa ham hali-hamon ularga yo'l-yo'riq ko'rsatishingizga muhtoj.

2) n/a

3) n/a

4) eschyo kaaaak :D

5) ha

6) bu narsalar haqida o'qib, ehsitib qonim qaynaydi albatta, eng avvalo shunga sababchi bo'lib qolgan maraz ota-onalarga va ular yashaydigan jamiyatga

7) Farzand tarbiyasida eng avvalo ota-onaning ta'siri bo'ladi, farzandini to'g'ri tarbiyalay olmaydigan, ishi ham bo'lmaydigan ota-onalarga doim la'nat aytgim keladi. Ko'cha-ko'yda sandiroqlab yurgan bolalarni ko'rsam: eh ishqilib shunaqa ona bo'lib qolmay, deb qo'yaman. Farzandni doim nazoratga qo'yib, har bir daqiqasini foydali sarflashga, ularni qarovsiz qoldirmaslikka, o'ziga qiziq bo'lgan mashg'ulotlar bilan shug'ullantirishga harakat qilmoq joiz. Farzandni dunyoga keltirishga keltirib qo'yib, bechorani bir ahvolga solib qo'ygan ota-onalar avvalambor ota-ona bo'lish sharafiga nomunosib insonlardir, deb hisoblayman. Ishqilib, hammamizga havas qilsa arzigulik farzandlar ota-onasi bo'lish, ularga juda namunali tarbiya berish nasib etsin!

[Maroon]

Oдин американский кинорежиссёр тоже так женился на приёмной дочери своей жены. моё личное мнение если девушка совершеннолетняя, и если сама хочет замуж, то это их личное дело. хотя как-то не этично

That's a bit different. Woody Allen did not adopt her, it was Farrow's adopted child.

People, he was never considered her dad or anything similar.

Sorry for off-topic.

Good topic Budka.

[Asadbek]

Hey, Forumdoshlar,
sal o'zlaringizni bosvolib yozsalaringiz bo'lmaydimi?
Qayoqqa qarama, man-san, san-man...

Mana, bahor eshikni taqillatib keldi, sal xushmuomala bo'lingizlar, iltimos!

[Uyyonli]

Hey, Forumdoshlar,

sal o'zlaringizni bosvolib yozsalaringiz bo'lmaydimi?

Qayoqqa qarama, man-san, san-man...


Mana, bahor eshikni taqillatib keldi, sal xushmuomala bo'lingizlar, iltimos!
hayot qiziq emish, o'rtasi chiziq emish, nima emish o'rtasi chizg'i bulmasa, hayotning nimasi qiziq emish :-D Ha bahor kelyabdi...

[Пушкарева]

Uyyonli, moderators will have to warn you for offtops soon.

[PainKiller]

Kichkina kizchalarni, manimcha, ota onasi bo'lmasa, ularga ota-onalik kilish uchun, ularga mehr-muhabbat berib, bahtli kilish uchun bokib olishadi, SOGLOM odamlar. Ularni voyaga etguncha ota bulib katta kilib, sung ularga uylanib olish-SICK, DISGUSSTING.:shock:
Hosh, buni kanaka kilib amalga oshirar ekan odamlar? Ya'ni, 18 ga kirgach, kizchani chakirib-Kizim, endi siz manga hotin bulasiz deyiladimi? Bola uchun bu kanaka udar? This is plain sick. People should get their brains checked.
PS. The whole idea of "raising your own" wife is sort of disturbing. People DECIDE themselves when they grow up WHO THEY WANT TO MARRY.
People who adopt kids with intention of marrying them, or having any sort of sexual relationship-Should be hanged.:evil:
PS. Intention matters huge time. When you adopt a girl, she grows up and u somehow fell in love with her(??) and with her concent you start relationship, it is strange but I can still sort of settle for it. But Adopting a kid so you can raise them as your wife, husband-is wrong. Because, there is this sexual tension underneath this whole father-daughter thing, which is not healthy and immoral. Let's say, you decided to adopt a girl solely with the purpose of sleeping with her and having kids with her when she reaches puberty. Doesn't that make you a sicko? How can you look at a child, and imagine her as your future wife? How can you decide for a human being what will happen to them in the future? You are a plain human, not a God to write people's destinies.

[PainKiller]

My opinion on the thread:
Kids are humans, just like you, me and anybody else. They need to be treated with respect and understanding just like any other human being on the Earth. They are not mature yet to make decisions for themselves, and that means an adult guardian should protect, feed, prepare them for their future adult lives. Without traumatizing, sexually exploiting, abusing and messing up their bodies and souls. Abusing kids is no different than from abusing an elderly or weak adult who cannot protect themselves or who have no control over the situation.
Look at the child and see a PERSON. Kids are not our posessions to do with them whatever the hell we want to do in terms of treating them badly, using them as slaves on fields, factories etc. Adults should know better and make sure the child is in the invironment where he/she can grow up, learn important survival skills, get educations, learn the surrounding World, and be ready to live independently when he/she grows up. Other than that, adults can restrict and be somewhat controlling over what the child is doing or the way the child is acting, IF that behavior will negatively effect him/her in present and future. Anyways, The role of an adult-to make sure there is a place where kid is protected and can grow.

[serenity]

..bir erkakning kichkina qiz boqib olib,malum bir vaqt otgandan keyin unga "uylanishi" bu manimcha umuman noto'g'ri,chunki bir necha yilla mobaynida otadek ko'rib kelib farzandli mehrini bergan qiz bir kun kelib unga "otasini ayoli" bo'lishi... bolaga(qizga) psyhalagik tarafdan negativ tasiri bo'ladi.

keyin ota mehri bilan turmush ortog' bo'lish orasidagi chustvala ancha muncha farq qilsa kere. agar usha erkak qizni boqib olishi vaqtida shuni o'ylab boqvogan bo'sa unda.. umuman bilmadim buni qanaqa atashni...:rolleyes:

yosh bolalarni explotatsia qilish, fizicheskiy qiynash,sotish etc bu yuragida insoniyli hislati qomaganla diyishdan bosqa narsa kemidi...
o'zini himoya qilolmagan bolalardan har hil yolla bilan,adultla o'z manfa'tiga foydalanvotgan odamla o'ylamasmikin-a, shu bolani butun kelejegini buzvotgani haqida...

Chunki odam bolalida tarbiyasi/kechirgalari kelejegida koop narsalaga ta'sir qilishi tochna!

ko'p narsa tarbiyaga bog'lu,shunga bekorga etishmasa kere fundament mustahkam-yahshi bo'sa uyog'i sekin tog'irlanb ketvuradi deb...

hammaga boshni uyatdan egdirmidigan,fahrlansa arzigude, farzand i ota-onala bersin...

;)

[Elegance]

Bekorga, "Ursa, eti, so'ksa beti qotadi", deyishmaydi.

Umuman, jismoniy jazoni qo'llash oxirgi chora sifatida qabul qilinishi kerak. Oilamizda hech qachon jismoniy jazo qo'llanmagan. Onamlarni ismimizni ma'lum bir ohangda aytishlarini yoki qarashlarining o'zi xato qilganimizni tushunish uchun yetarli edi. Ma'lum bir belgilangan chegaradan o'tmaslikka harakat qilar edik. Berilgan erkinlikni esa suiite'mol ham qilmas edik. Bolalikda, albatta, nimalar bo'lmaydi. Lekin shunda ham jismoniy jazo olmaganmiz.

Bolalikdan jismoniy jazo olish, bolani ma'nan sindiradi. Odamlarga va o'ziga nisbatan ishonch, hurmat hissini yo'qotadi. Har bir narsadan ja'zo olaverganidan esa, mustaqil qaror qabul qilishga qiynaladigan bo'lib qoladi.

Erkak kishining qiz bolani tarbiyalab, unga keyinchalik uylanishi esa, aqlga sig'maydigan narsa. Kezi kelganda, qarindoshga turmushga chiqishga rozi bo'lmaydi-ku odam, tutingan otasi haqida gapirmasa ham bo'ladi.