The Main Value

[Shambles]

Every society has its values... In this thread I propose to talk about the main value of the society you are currently living in, lived for some time or know for some other reasons. That would be great if you could spell out your statements and explain to us clearly why this or that value is so important in the society under scrutiny... Certainly, we cannot avoid preconceptions and subjectivity, moreover, this values should not be considered as the one-size-fits-all approach (i.e. being applicable to the each member of the society), since it's rather non-academic knowledge in order to widen our horizons, critically assess our stereotypes and observe the general cultural trends.

I would like to start with Sweden. The main value in this society, as I see it, is justice. The Swedish society is driven by the sense of justice and all those kinks with the feminism and poor immigration policy are based on justice. "All people are born equal and should be regarded as equal" is the main motto of the Swedish society. Sounds great at first glance, however, women-porters and mixed WC rooms (without distingushing Ladies' and Gents' rooms) are vivid examples of the absurdity such justice brought. Otherwise, that's a very good value that makes Sweden one of the best countries in the world, imho.

Another country in Europe which is worth considering is Ireland... The main value in the Irish society is... fun. Yes, fun and joy. People never think about their tomorrows and enjoy their lives in full. Nothing is more important than fun for the Irish, they care little about such things as the family, justice, etc.... Interesting, ha???

[Royal]

in our society value is : Honor

[anatoliydaev]

Germany: quality, punctuality (except for people who work in Deutsche Bahn) and education.
Stereotypes: beer, sausages and porn.

[Shambles]

in our society value is : Honor

I think that honour is the main value in Caucasus, whereas in our society the main value is a wedding and all related stuff...

[Shambles]

Germany: quality, punctuality (except for people who work in Deutsche Bahn) and education.
Stereotypes: beer, sausages and porn.

I disagree on punctuality, the young generation is quite far from being punctual and appreciating it much.

Stereotypes are so true...:D

[Kolobok]

The main value in England is Football and the page 3 girls in Sun newspaper

[Delf]

The main value in US is $money$ :D

Delf.

[MUHLIS]

The main value in US is $ :D

Delf.
Did you ever care why capitalism originated in europe not in China or other ancient eastern civilizations?

[forex]

The main value in England is Football and the page 3 girls in Sun newspaper

I second that,main value of England are nice shoes and suits!

[Vector]

I second that,main value of England are nice shoes and suits!

and a beer, they drink lots of beer...and friday nights out...

[AL-Midwest]

The main value in US is $ :D

Delf.

I would also add bigger is better, cheesburger and freedom (former french fries) fries are the greatest invention human history and united we stand but we hate all the other ones who don't look like us-)

[AL-Midwest]

Every society has its values... In this thread I propose to talk about the main value of the society you are currently living in, lived for some time or know for some other reasons. That would be great if you could spell out your statements and explain to us clearly why this or that value is so important in the society under scrutiny... Certainly, we cannot avoid preconceptions and subjectivity, moreover, this values should not be considered as the one-size-fits-all approach (i.e. being applicable to the each member of the society), since it's rather non-academic knowledge in order to widen our horizons, critically assess our stereotypes and observe the general cultural trends.

I would like to start with Sweden. The main value in this society, as I see it, is justice. The Swedish society is driven by the sense of justice and all those kinks with the feminism and poor immigration policy are based on justice. "All people are born equal and should be regarded as equal" is the main motto of the Swedish society. Sounds great at first glance, however, women-porters and mixed WC rooms (without distingushing Ladies' and Gents' rooms) are vivid examples of the absurdity such justice brought. Otherwise, that's a very good value that makes Sweden one of the best countries in the world, imho.

Another country in Europe which is worth considering is Ireland... The main value in the Irish society is... fun. Yes, fun and joy. People never think about their tomorrows and enjoy their lives in full. Nothing is more important than fun for the Irish, they care little about such things as the family, justice, etc.... Interesting, ha???

I am totally agree by your description about Irish people ..i had number of Irish employees and they are the coolest people i have been around. They used to say we work to live but not live to work-)

[Delf]

Did you ever care why capitalism originated in europe not in China or other ancient eastern civilizations?

Because they all remained in feudalism.
There were reasons why feudalism weakened in Europe and slowly was replaced by capitalism.

Delf.

[Samimiy]

in our society value is : Honor

Oxirgi paytda bizning jamiyatdagi eng kuchli "qadriyat" - qushninikidan balandroq uy qurish bulib boryapti! :(

PS. Inglizchada "core value" deyiladi.

[Frida]

Another country in Europe which is worth considering is Ireland... The main value in the Irish society is... fun. Yes, fun and joy. People never think about their tomorrows and enjoy their lives in full. Nothing is more important than fun for the Irish, they care little about such things as the family, justice, etc.... Interesting, ha???

:? i don't know if i agree with this statement. i took a class on multicultural society and communication, so all the stuff i've read about irish people was their feeling of guilt. i asked you this question in your thread called -- Ireland, but you never had a time to read and answer it :x.... just hangs out in "flame" section day and night...

[Frida]

Did you ever care why capitalism originated in europe not in China or other ancient eastern civilizations?

do you mean eastern civilizations with ancient history? :) cause otherwise it doesn't make sense, why would ancient eastern civilizations need capitalism? their slavery system was just suitable to their condition. which means you need some environment for one political or social system to change to another (unless it is chaotic and revolutionary as Soviet system, which did not come naturally but was forced to people). it is like evolution. things change when they have to, when there is a reason. same is here.

but at the same time, there are many reasons to think that protestants' believes and values were/are very suitable to capitalism. at the end of the day capitalism started in England, and was very sucessful in protestant started New World. there is actually a book written by Weber. old but informative.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Die_protestantische_Ethik_und_der_%27Geist%27_des_ Kapitalismus_original_cover.jpg/401px-Die_protestantische_Ethik_und_der_%27Geist%27_des_ Kapitalismus_original_cover.jpg

[MUHLIS]

do you mean eastern civilizations with ancient history? :) cause otherwise it doesn't make sense
Maybe it is senseless to you, but I meant ancient (or old) eastern civilizations. It makes sense to me because those civilizations are either extinct or have adopted capitalism.

why would ancient eastern civilizations need capitalism? their slavery system was just suitable to their condition.
Slavery isn't something that stood on the way of capitalism neither did it prevent it. The origins of Capitalism is rooted in Genoa and Venice and they did have slavery, the US is a capitalist country and they did have slavery, examples are abundant. The Chinese or Islamic Empires lacked the following factors below.

which means you need some environment for one political or social system to change to another (unless it is chaotic and revolutionary as Soviet system, which did not come naturally but was forced to people). it is like evolution. things change when they have to, when there is a reason. same is here.
For capitalism to form and thrive you need:
1. Financial institutions (mainly the banking system, but the insurance and credit systems are also very important). BTW: we say sug'urta for insurance it has its roots in a word "securita" - a Genoese invention.
2. Property rights (political aspect)
3. Strong desire (if not insatiable greed) to accumulate capital (social aspect).
When these and other less significant factors are present no laws of evolution can stop capitalism.
"Step-by-Step" or "revolutionary" views of structural transformation is more peculiar to Marx and Lenin. If you take the example of post-colonial Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East, you will discover that their pattern of development does not necessarily suit with the "evolutionary" views of Marx. As we know, Marx was a great admirer of Darvin and have written letters to him while in exile in France that were left without an answer.
Application of "evolutionary" views into social sciences does not produce good fruits. "Social Darwinism" opens up a way for racial prejudice, hatred, and conflicts. Fascism has had many things to borrow from social Darwinism which was thriving in Germany.

but at the same time, there are many reasons to think that protestants' believes and values were/are very suitable to capitalism. at the end of the day capitalism started in England, and was very successful in protestant started New World. there is actually a book written by Weber. old but informative.
I don't necessarily buy this argument. Capitalism did not originate in England, but industrialization did.
Dissentors ( or those who were not part of the Anglican Church) did not have a right to own land (imagine to have this in an agrarian society) and that have led to the process of industrialization. Capitalism and industrialization are two different things.
"Protestant ethic" or working hard and work a lot for the name of GOD and for the cause of GOD, as proposed by Max Weber somewhat explains how Christian Europe was able to overcome their fundamental religious philosophies and embark capitalism. So why Genoa and Venice, Christian kingdoms, were able to start capitalism? Because they, as former criminals and pirates in their vast majority, were less religious and their religiousness was pretty much a lip service, nothing more than that.
Non primogeniture nature of inheritance system, Confucianism in China and religious doctrine of Islam (prohibition of making money from money, sharing wealth with extended family and community, etc) prevented emergence of capitalism in Islamic Empires. Find out more about the origins of capitalism here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-systems_theory .

[Frida]

i guess your explanation works, if you consider capitalism to be inherently wrong or immoral social-economic system.

as for the rest, Delf kind of partially answered.

i am, as some know, socialist anyway. :) so i better go sleep, it is too late to worry about capitalism at this hour. 11:58 :sleepy:

[Demir Kağan]

family, i guess.

[Shambles]

:? i don't know if i agree with this statement. i took a class on multicultural society and communication, so all the stuff i've read about irish people was their feeling of guilt. i asked you this question in your thread called -- Ireland, but you never had a time to read and answer it :x.... just hangs out in "flame" section day and night...


My apologies, I missed somehow your question... I'll get back to you as soon as I conduct little research on this issue, since I'm rather incompetent in this question...

With regard to the very value, I would insist that is fun...;)

P.S. Hahahah, just noticed your message in white...:))))))))

[anatoliydaev]

Because they all remained in feudalism.
There were reasons why feudalism weakened in Europe and slowly was replaced by capitalism.

Delf.
And the main reason for adopting the capitalist economic practices in Western Europe were the church reforms initiated by Martin Luther (although some of his ideas were adopted by Nazis concerinign the Jew issue).

[Delf]

I think it is impossible to escape feudalism in an agrarian society: all land belongs to nobility and almost all economic production comes from land.

Changes in Europe which led to large cities together with industrialization paved a way for land-independent profitable industries which rapidly developed and produced an entire new rich and powerful class of citizens which later became a base for new capitalist system.

There are various reasons for such changes: from religious reforms to Renaissance, from printing press and advancement of sciences to specialization of professions. I think it is not easy to say which one is the most important and definitive factor of transformation of a feudal society into a capitalist one.


Delf.