Can anyone be banned for PM insults?

[Shambles]

Hi everyone!

I wonder if it is fair to ban someone for the insults received in PM?

[nelegal]

There is a good German movie, called 'Experiment'. The idea that comes out of the movie is that when you give authority to one party, and deprive it from the other, they naturally start hating each other. Those with authority will feel like using their power, while those without will absolutely challange it.

Who is to be blamed? Noone.

Answering the question; It is not fair, but those who are unjust are simply unable to understand that what they are doing is not right.

P.S. Kitayoza, Muhlis, Uzland(!)- the most prominent users are banned.

[forex]

nelegal,
are you bacha?
Shambles,who got banned? I don't even have to ask who banned him/her:)

[kitayoza]

uzr mavzu nima haqidaligini inglizcha bilmaganim uchun tushunmadimu, lekin forum adminlariga aytar gapim bor.
Nimaga bann berib turib, qaysi gunohim uchun, uzr, qaysi qoidabuzarlik harakati uchun pryamoy bann berilganini aytib o'tmayapsila.
Oldin hurmat yuzasi @-mail ga hat yuborib, "uzr kitayoza. Ja haddizdan oshib ketdiz. Popugizni bosib qo'yish uchun sizga bann berdik" derdiyla. Endi esa uyam yo'.:evil:
Bu nima harakat?
Yo kabobbeyni boshiga tushgan "sistemniy sboy" ham mani kichik boshinga kelib tushdimi?

Bormi izoh beradigan zotla?!
Asadbek javob bermasa ham mayli.
Hali o'zi bilan gaplashamiz.

[wyxpat]

kitayoza, siz ban bo'lishizdan avval Warning'la 5-6 ta bo'p qolgan edi. Shunaqa Warning'ladan yana birorta berishgan bo'sa, ko'payib ketib qogande. Shuni yuvish uchun forum o'zi ban qivorgan :)

Mana qarang endi chistiy list bo'p o'tiripsiz, Warning'la yo' ;)

[kitayoza]

kitayoza, siz ban bo'lishizdan avval Warning'la 5-6 ta bo'p qolgan edi. Shunaqa Warning'ladan yana birorta berishgan bo'sa, ko'payib ketib qogande. Shuni yuvish uchun forum o'zi ban qivorgan :)

Mana qarang endi chistiy list bo'p o'tiripsiz, Warning'la yo' ;)

Qaniydi shunaqa bo'ganda edi.
Hozir zo'r bahona bor. Lyuboy harakatni "sistemadagi kamchilikka" yo'yib qo'yishavardi.
manimchali mangayam shunaqa bahonani ro'kach qilishsa kerey.
Qani mutasaddi shaxslarning kommentariyalarini eshitiyluchi.

[wyxpat]

E birpastda nimala qildiz? uje 2 ta Warning ko'rsatyapti sizda -))

[wyxpat]

Hi everyone!

I wonder if it is fair to ban someone for the insults received in PM?
100% Fair. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can insult anyone privately.

[R.Azimov]

Men mutasaddimasman, lekin nega warning olganligingizni ayta olaman va men aytmoqchi bo'lgan sabab sizga PM qilingan!

Mana bu FLOOD uchun board moderatori tomonidan warning. http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=959062&postcount=16

Va Mana bu flood uchun Warning. http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=929574&postcount=413

Savollar bo'lsa marhamat.

RA

Qaniydi shunaqa bo'ganda edi.
Hozir zo'r bahona bor. Lyuboy harakatni "sistemadagi kamchilikka" yo'yib qo'yishavardi.
manimchali mangayam shunaqa bahonani ro'kach qilishsa kerey.
Qani mutasaddi shaxslarning kommentariyalarini eshitiyluchi.

[kitayoza]

Men mutasaddimasman, lekin nega warning olganligingizni ayta olaman va men aytmoqchi bo'lgan sabab sizga PM qilingan!

Mana bu FLOOD uchun board moderatori tomonidan warning. http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=959062&postcount=16

Va Mana bu flood uchun Warning. http://forum.arbuz.com/showpost.php?p=929574&postcount=413

Savollar bo'lsa marhamat.

RA

mutasaddi bo'maganiz bilinib turibdi.:D

Keltirgan ssilkeyzda hech bir postda qizil WARNING degan belgi yo', bu bir.
Ikkinchidan, birinchi ssilkeyz bo'yicha manga daaavno warning berilgan. Diqqat qiling bann emas, warning.
Uchunchidan, bann pryamoy berilishi uchun veskiy osnavaniya bo'lishi kere. Uyam bo'sa forum rahbarlarini so'kishdir.
Lekin man Hudoga shkur hali so'kmadim, harakat ham qimadim.
To'rtinchidan PM ga hat kelgani yo'. Hatto svyaznoy bo'lgan @-mailimga ham hat kemadide. Keganida edi "ha tushunarli, nima sabab bo'gani" derdim. A tak Asadbekga jahl qilib yuribman.
Aytmaysilami "uzr, bu sistemniy sboy" deb.

[SmIlIk]

mutasaddi bo'maganiz bilinib turibdi.:D

Keltirgan ssilkeyzda hech bir postda qizil WARNING degan belgi yo', bu bir.
Ikkinchidan, birinchi ssilkeyz bo'yicha manga daaavno warning berilgan. Diqqat qiling bann emas, warning.
Uchunchidan, bann pryamoy berilishi uchun veskiy osnavaniya bo'lishi kere. Uyam bo'sa forum rahbarlarini so'kishdir.
Lekin man Hudoga shkur hali so'kmadim, harakat ham qimadim.
To'rtinchidan PM ga hat kelgani yo'. Hatto svyaznoy bo'lgan @-mailimga ham hat kemadide. Keganida edi "ha tushunarli, nima sabab bo'gani" derdim. A tak Asadbekga jahl qilib yuribman.
Aytmaysilami "uzr, bu sistemniy sboy" deb.

UZR BU SISTEMNIY SBOY! Warning sistemasiga o'zgartirish kiritilayotgani uchun warning olgan postingizga qizil tamg'a bosilmay qolibdi. Agar ishonmayotgan bo'lsangiz, kinoyali gaplarni davom ettiravering. Tushunishni hohlagan tushunadi. Boshqalarga barmog'i bilan ko'rsatib turishni hohlamaydigan odam tushunmay o'tiraveradi.

Omad

[Royal]

uzr mavzu nima haqidaligini inglizcha bilmaganim uchun tushunmadimu, lekin forum adminlariga aytar gapim bor.
Nimaga bann berib turib, qaysi gunohim uchun, uzr, qaysi qoidabuzarlik harakati uchun pryamoy bann berilganini aytib o'tmayapsila.
Oldin hurmat yuzasi @-mail ga hat yuborib, "uzr kitayoza. Ja haddizdan oshib ketdiz. Popugizni bosib qo'yish uchun sizga bann berdik" derdiyla. Endi esa uyam yo'.:evil:
Bu nima harakat?
Yo kabobbeyni boshiga tushgan "sistemniy sboy" ham mani kichik boshinga kelib tushdimi?

Bormi izoh beradigan zotla?!
Asadbek javob bermasa ham mayli.
Hali o'zi bilan gaplashamiz.

heh.....andishani qorqoqqa chiqishi shu bosa keray....

bir tepsa , nime tepdila dip dodlashadi, keyin indmie, otip ketsa...aaaa qorqdilami dip jaar soladi...

bu nima degan ozi a? blin har joyda sokip turish keraymi endi...

[kitayoza]

UZR BU SISTEMNIY SBOY! Warning sistemasiga o'zgartirish kiritilayotgani uchun warning olgan postingizga qizil tamg'a bosilmay qolibdi. Agar ishonmayotgan bo'lsangiz, kinoyali gaplarni davom ettiravering. Tushunishni hohlagan tushunadi. Boshqalarga barmog'i bilan ko'rsatib turishni hohlamaydigan odam tushunmay o'tiraveradi.

Omad

ha mayli tasavvur qildik warning belgisining bosilmay qolganligiga.
Unda aytingchi, nimaga bitta warning srazu bannga qarab ketib qolyapti?
Buyam sistemniy sboymi?:rolleyes:
Keyin, man sayt mutasaddilarga murojat qiladigan bo'limdan gap qilyapman. Savolim bo'gani uchun berdim. Nima srazu "kinoyali gaplarizni davom ettiraverin" deb qo'rqityapsiz.
Savolim bor. Javobiz bo'sa berin!:evil:

[SmIlIk]

ha mayli tasavvur qildik warning belgisining bosilmay qolganligiga.
Unda aytingchi, nimaga bitta warning srazu bannga qarab ketib qolyapti?
Buyam sistemniy sboymi?:rolleyes:
Keyin, man sayt mutasaddilarga murojat qiladigan bo'limdan gap qilyapman. Savolim bo'gani uchun berdim. Nima srazu "kinoyali gaplarizni davom ettiraverin" deb qo'rqityapsiz.
Savolim bor. Javobiz bo'sa berin!:evil:

Bundan keyin ketib qolmaydi. Warning systemni almashtirishga to'g'ri keldi. Eskisini judayam ko'p ayblari bor ekan, eplash qiyin bo'lib ketdi. Wow_kabobni situaciyasini ko'rdingizku, sekingina PM yozib havar olib qo'ysangiz bo'lardi. Eski warninglariz o'chmagani uchun ham shunday bo'lib qolgan. Afsuski warninglari ko'p user'lar ham ko'p. Shuning uchun birma bir qarab chiqishga imkon bo'lganicha yo'q. Balki birdaniga hammasini o'chirib boshqatdan boshlarmiz. Sag'al kechroq forumda o'zgarishlar mavzusida natijasini yozaman.

Kitayoza, sizni forumda ko'ribmanki ayb qidirshga harakat qilasiz-de. Shuning uchun gaplarimga hafa bo'lmang. Ko'zimga ko'ringanini aytdim halos. "Sistemniy sboy", deb bahona qilasizlar, deb gapirganiz sizningcha chiroyli gapmi? Yosh bolamasmizki, uni bunga, buni unga to'nkab o'tirsak. Sizga yozgan javobim qo'rqitish ekanligini bilmabman. Uzr.

[kitayoza]

Bundan keyin ketib qolmaydi. Warning systemni almashtirishga to'g'ri keldi. Eskisini judayam ko'p ayblari bor ekan, eplash qiyin bo'lib ketdi. Wow_kabobni situaciyasini ko'rdingizku, sekingina PM yozib havar olib qo'ysangiz bo'lardi. Eski warninglariz o'chmagani uchun ham shunday bo'lib qolgan. Afsuski warninglari ko'p user'lar ham ko'p. Shuning uchun birma bir qarab chiqishga imkon bo'lganicha yo'q. Balki birdaniga hammasini o'chirib boshqatdan boshlarmiz. Sag'al kechroq forumda o'zgarishlar mavzusida natijasini yozaman.

Kitayoza, sizni forumda ko'ribmanki ayb qidirshga harakat qilasiz-de. Shuning uchun gaplarimga hafa bo'lmang. Ko'zimga ko'ringanini aytdim halos. "Sistemniy sboy", deb bahona qilasizlar, deb gapirganiz sizningcha chiroyli gapmi? Yosh bolamasmizki, uni bunga, buni unga to'nkab o'tirsak. Sizga yozgan javobim qo'rqitish ekanligini bilmabman. Uzr.
Ha bo'larkanu bunday yotig'i bilan tushuntirsa.
Srazu do'q urushga tushib ketasilaya.:D
Mayli sistema yaxshi ishlasa, bizagayam yaxshi bo'ladi. Tezro to'g'rilayla.
Haligi "sistemni sboy" haqidagi kinoya gapim, 3 kunlik nohaq dam olganim uchun bir "dardimni to'kib olish" edi halos.:D
To'g'ri tushundiz deb o'ylayman.:D

[SmIlIk]

Hi everyone!

I wonder if it is fair to ban someone for the insults received in PM?

As for the question: It happend couple of times in the past but it always depends on the case. So, if you present the case we will take a look at it.

[kitayoza]

PM da javob hati yozishda hat kelgan userning ismi chiqmayapti. Shunga ham bir nazar qib qo'yila.

[Shambles]

As for the question: It happend couple of times in the past but it always depends on the case. So, if you present the case we will take a look at it.

The case looks as follows... Izida insulted Abu - Hafiza via PM (don't know the details) and was banned afterwards...

In my opinion, moders should not use their leverages in such cases, since other mortal users cannot protect themselves using similar tools whilst being insulted via PM. Private should remain private. However, I do not justify Izida's deeds at all.

[SmIlIk]

The case looks as follows... Izida insulted Abu - Hafiza via PM (don't know the details) and was banned afterwards...

In my opinion, moders should not use their leverages in such cases, since other mortal users cannot protect themselves using similar tools whilst being insulted via PM. Private should remain private. However, I do not justify Izida's deeds at all.


I checked Izida's warnings (active) and could see that she is banned for 3 days automatically of the warnings she recieved. She had total of 4 warnings/12 point (10 is enough for a ban). Previous to that she also recieved 2 verbal warnings which she conviniently ignored and kept on doing whatever she was doing. As a moderator on a side, I can say that her warnings were absolutely well deserved for her behaviour.

[Shambles]

I checked Izida's warnings (active) and could see that she is banned for 3 days automatically of the warnings she recieved. She had total of 4 warnings/12 point (10 is enough for a ban). Previous to that she also recieved 2 verbal warnings which she conviniently ignored and kept on doing whatever she was doing. As a moderator on a side, I can say that her warnings were absolutely well deserved for her behaviour.

Chest' mundira ona i v Afrike chest' mundira... No offence, though...

[Magnolia]

same old-same old...:D
honestly,people,aren't you tired of discussing others private business?:)

[SmIlIk]

However, I do not justify Izida's deeds at all.

This should have said it all. Delo ne v mundire, Shambles.

[melo]

same old-same old...:D
honestly,people,aren't you tired of discussing others private business?:)

yeah! magnolia always writes offensive and/or rude pms to me and she never gets banned or even warned. :P

[Magnolia]

yeah! magnolia always writes offensive and/or rude pms to me and she never gets banned or even warned. :P

Do you have to rat me out?:rolleyes::twisted:
Chicken!:twisted:

[anatoliydaev]

Chest' mundira ona i v Afrike chest' mundira... No offence, though...
Картошка в мундире. Изида оказывается бед герл. :D

[melo]

Do you have to rat me out?:rolleyes::twisted:
Chicken!:twisted:

I finally found the courage to respond publically. :lol:

[Demir Kağan]

Maybe this is a strange example but, don't you go jail when you kill someone at home? Does it differ whether you are at home or outside?

[SAMARKANDI!]

Maybe this is a strange example but, don't you go jail when you kill someone at home? Does it differ whether you are at home or outside?

I think your example is good but not quite match to what is in question here (u cant compare an orange with an apple). Closer example would be in US law, public or private slandering (I am sure many other countries have this too, also it is in Islam). Person can get fined or punished for publicly slandering or defaming another person. But when it happens privately person to person, as long as it is not serious threats, it is not handled in the same manner as for the public one.

[MegaZ]

Guys, there was a big problem with our warning system which would never purge out the old warnings properly. Because of that, people got banned when they weren't supposed to. I removed the old warning system and now we have a new infraction system, which should work much better.

[Shambles]

Maybe this is a strange example but, don't you go jail when you kill someone at home? Does it differ whether you are at home or outside?

Yes, it does differ... For explanations please refer to post #38 and to post of SAMARKANDI...

Peace out!

[PainKiller]

I think whatever happened in private should remain the user's personal thing, unless:
-user is sending multiple, spam messages, advocating, promoting illegal, harmful for themselves, or others messages and ideas.
-user makes threats via pm to other user(s), blackmailing, using forum tools to do all of the above;
-user is stalking another user(s)
-user is promoting hatred against another user, group of people;
-user is sharing suicidal thoughts and ideas.

If any of the above happens, I really think that the messages should be forwarded to the adminsitrator, or the moderator of choice and if needed to law enforcement units.

[Abu-Hafiza]

Chest' mundira ona i v Afrike chest' mundira... No offence, though...
Dear Shambles

I cannot believe that you came to the conclusion that Izida was banned for her PMs. You participated in the same debate, how could you not see her PUBLIC insults to users like Black and mocking of the verbal warnings of the moderator? How many verbal warning I gave? You read them all and you also saw replies Izida gave.

Insults via PM only convinced me that if measures were not taken, with this kind of attitude she would go on doing as she pleases. If you or anyone else still doubts the desision given, please go back to the thread (i have undeleted her posts) and have a read through again may be you will understand why she got warnings that lead for her being banned.

Regards

[SmIlIk]

I already explained Shambles over PM that moderators cannot ban a user. Only admins can. Guys, do not keep beating the dead horse over and over again. Izida got banned for 3 days because of her exceeding warning points.
What is not to understand here?

[PainKiller]

I already explained Shambles over PM that moderators cannot ban a user. Only admins can. Guys, do not keep beating the dead horse over and over again. Izida got banned for 3 days because of her exceeding warning points.
What is not to understand here?
Sorry. In my case I was just responding to the question whether the person can be banned for the activities in PM or comments on reputation.
I had neither time nor desire to watch the conflict between Izida and someone else, so I have nothing to say about her specific case.
Thank you for your respond.

[SmIlIk]

Sorry. In my case I was just responding to the question whether the person can be banned for the activities in PM or comments on reputation.
I had neither time nor desire to watch the conflict between Izida and someone else, so I have nothing to say about her specific case.
Thank you for your respond.

Overall I find this topic a little misleading. It actually presumes one specific issue but asks more general question. You chose to express your opinion about the general question, which is absolutely fare. But since I know why this topic was even opened I referred my reply to those who keep on blaming owner of post #38. If I understood them correctly than I am sure they will get my reply, too.

[Shambles]

Dear Shambles

I cannot believe that you came to the conclusion that Izida was banned for her PMs. You participated in the same debate, how could you not see her PUBLIC insults to users like Black and mocking of the verbal warnings of the moderator? How many verbal warning I gave? You read them all and you also saw replies Izida gave.

Insults via PM only convinced me that if measures were not taken, with this kind of attitude she would go on doing as she pleases. If you or anyone else still doubts the desision given, please go back to the thread (i have undeleted her posts) and have a read through again may be you will understand why she got warnings that lead for her being banned.

Regards

Dear Abu-Hafiza,

actually, we have already sorted out this issue with SmIlIk and the thread should have been closed by now.

Quick notes to make picture entirer. I have nothing against neither you or Black, moreover, Izida well deserved her ban, however, it is quite obvious that you and Black are on the same side - since Black got no verbal warning for his audacious behaviour and insults (maybe not as strong as Izida's ones). The second point and the aim of this thread is based on Post 46 by you in which you explicitly say the following: "Izida, agar yana bir bor so'kib PM tashlasangiz bu safar qattiqroq chora ko'riladi". I don't know what happened between you two guys in PM or somewhere else but I found that statement awkward (I had fleshed out this point in post 18).

My apologies if I offended you, Black or Izida with this post.

Cheers,


Shambles

[Shambles]

Overall I find this topic a little misleading. It actually presumes one specific issue but asks more general question. You chose to express your opinion about the general question, which is absolutely fare. But since I know why this topic was even opened I referred my reply to those who keep on blaming owner of post #38. If I understood them correctly than I am sure they will get my reply, too.

I guess it's you who misunderstood the topic, since it was a clear example of induction (from a sample to generalisation), based on the curiousity whether one specific case is a general rule/tendency or it's rather an exception. Therefore, in the very first post I didn't put any details of the Izida vs Abu-Hafiza issue in order to avoid one-sided debates only concerning the case.

Anyway, it's high time to close this thread. Thanks!

[Guardian]

P.S. Kitayoza, Muhlis, Uzland(!)- the most prominent users are banned.
FYI: Muhlis is banned per his own request.

[Black]

Dear Abu-Hafiza,

actually, we have already sorted out this issue with SmIlIk and the thread should have been closed by now.

Quick notes to make picture entirer. I have nothing against neither you or Black, moreover, Izida well deserved her ban, however, it is quite obvious that you and Black are on the same side - since Black got no verbal warning for his audacious behaviour and insults (maybe not as strong as Izida's ones). The second point and the aim of this thread is based on Post 46 by you in which you explicitly say the following: "Izida, agar yana bir bor so'kib PM tashlasangiz bu safar qattiqroq chora ko'riladi". I don't know what happened between you two guys in PM or somewhere else but I found that statement awkward (I had fleshed out this point in post 18).

My apologies if I offended you, Black or Izida with this post.

Cheers,


Shambles


Could you please show me where I acted "audacious" ly (grubo??).

[kitayoza]

Hoh hoy odamzotlar. Ko'rdik, bildik, inglizcheylarni zo'rligini. Ha bunday bizaga o'xshagan qishlaqilar tushuna oladigan tilda, o'zbeychada gaplashiyla.
Bizayam masalaga vnikat qiliyluuu.:D

[nelegal]

FYI: Muhlis is banned per his own request.
Yes, I know. But initially he got the ban for the verbal fight with nemets and co., which I think was not fair. Both parties should have been warned.

[Demir Kağan]

Then I'm going to US, to get shed some blood. :lool:

[Asadbek]

The case looks as follows... Izida insulted Abu - Hafiza via PM (don't know the details) and was banned afterwards...

In my opinion, moders should not use their leverages in such cases, since other mortal users cannot protect themselves using similar tools whilst being insulted via PM. Private should remain private. However, I do not justify Izida's deeds at all.
Hurmatli Shambles,

Izida nima uchun Ban olganini tushuntirib berishibdi.
SHu o'rinda PM haqidagi gaplaringizga bir fikrim bor:
agar User biror Moderator/ Administratordan biror mavzuda Warning olsa, birdan o'sha Moderator/ Administratorni PM orqali haqoratlab, so'kib, sha'niga bo'lmag'ur gaplar qilishga haqqi yo'q. Warningdan norozi bo'lsa, odamga o'xshab to'g'ri muomala qilish kerak, haqoratga o'tib ketmasdan.

Qaytarib aytaman, user Warning uchun birdan Moderatorni haqoratlab ketmasdan, to'g'ri muomala bilan savol bersa, o'rtada ko'ngilxiralik bo'lmaydi.
Forumdagi beminnat qilayotgan ma'muriy ishi uchun Moderator yoki Administrator ma'muriy jazo olgan User tomonidan haqoratlanmasligi kerak.

Salomat bo'lgaysizlar!

[Shambles]

Could you please show me where I acted "audacious" ly (grubo??).

Easily... Please refer to your post #17, the last paragraph (and especially "nekotorie bol'nie lyudi")... We can discuss it in more details via PM in case you don't agree with me...

Have a nice weekend!

[Shambles]

Hurmatli Shambles,

Izida nima uchun Ban olganini tushuntirib berishibdi.
SHu o'rinda PM haqidagi gaplaringizga bir fikrim bor:
agar User biror Moderator/ Administratordan biror mavzuda Warning olsa, birdan o'sha Moderator/ Administratorni PM orqali haqoratlab, so'kib, sha'niga bo'lmag'ur gaplar qilishga haqqi yo'q. Warningdan norozi bo'lsa, odamga o'xshab to'g'ri muomala qilish kerak, haqoratga o'tib ketmasdan.

Qaytarib aytaman, user Warning uchun birdan Moderatorni haqoratlab ketmasdan, to'g'ri muomala bilan savol bersa, o'rtada ko'ngilxiralik bo'lmaydi.
Forumdagi beminnat qilayotgan ma'muriy ishi uchun Moderator yoki Administrator ma'muriy jazo olgan User tomonidan haqoratlanmasligi kerak.

Salomat bo'lgaysizlar!

Hurmatli Asadbek,

kechirasizku, lekin gaplariz umuman noo'rin va aloqasi yuq bu threadga, chunki hech kimni Sizni so'zlarizga qarshiligi yuq. Moderatornimi, administratornimi yoki oddiy usernimi haqorat qilish umuman notug'ri narsa - bu bilan hamma rozi deb uylayman.

Threadni manosi sal boshqacharoq... Marhamat, mana bu bilan yana bir bora tanishib oling:

"In my opinion, moders should not use their leverages in such cases, since other mortal users cannot protect themselves using similar tools whilst being insulted via PM. Private should remain private. However, I do not justify Izida's deeds at all."

Hafa bulmisiz deb umiddaman.

Sog' bo'ling!

[Shambles]

Hoh hoy odamzotlar. Ko'rdik, bildik, inglizcheylarni zo'rligini. Ha bunday bizaga o'xshagan qishlaqilar tushuna oladigan tilda, o'zbeychada gaplashiyla.
Bizayam masalaga vnikat qiliyluuu.:D

Ohira o'zbekcha gapirvordim, Kitayoza, Sizni hurmat qilib...:D

[nemets]

Yes, I know. But initially he got the ban for the verbal fight with nemets and co., which I think was not fair. Both parties should have been warned.
I think you need to check that thread again, where Muhlis began discussing me in offtop context.

[nelegal]

I think you need to check that thread again, where Muhlis began discussing me in offtop context.
I might be wrong, if so, my apologies.



To dauphin
How old are you?

[Bukharan]

I'm sure most of the kids don't know their proper age. It's better to ask their parents.:)

[SmIlIk]

Per Shambles request this topic is closed. I suggest users to find appropriate threads to post their replies. Otherwise warnings will be issued.